This is the very reason that Sage is GPLed. Mathematica and MAGMA both use GMP and then go around saying how much faster their code is then standard GMP.
I think I heard something about MySQL doing so well because there is a dual license where if a company needs MySQL under a special license they can pay lots of money or something. On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 11:49 AM, alunw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Sorry about that "sorry to here..." > > By commercial I meant software that has to be paid for to be used > legitimately. So I guess Red Hat is commercial by that > yardstick. But last time I looked that was an OS, so I'd be happy to > donate to that. Mathematica is another matter. I'd be both flattered > and amazed if Wolfram wanted to use any of my code, but I'd certainly > feel aggrieved if they made money by doing so, but did not reward me > in some way (e.g. a free copy of Mahematica and lifetime free upgrades > would be good :-) ) > > Thanks for all your replies. > > On Oct 31, 3:10 pm, "William Stein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 7:49 AM, alunw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > I'm sorry to here you think I am imposing restrictions. >> > In fact all I am trying to do is prevent restrictions being imposed >> > upon me and other potential users, and protect myself from being >> > exploited. >> >> You are imposing one restriction: >> >> * 2) Anybody should be free to reuse my code in commercial software, >> except for software which is principally concerned with the creation >> of fractals, tessellations, and related mathematical imagery. For >> commercial software of that nature I'd want to receive some payment, >> >> Depending on what you mean by "commercial", this restriction is >> incompatible with your software being combined >> with most open source software. What do you mean by commercial? >> Do you consider RedHat Linux commercial? >> Or by "commercial" do you just mean "closed source" (but possibly free)? >> >> > Although MAF is a substantial package in its own right it contains a >> > lot of code which is common with other software I have developed or >> > will develop, software which is not open source and will not be open >> > source. I think it is perfectly reasonable that I should not have to >> > worry about infringing the very onerous GPL requirements when reusing >> > my own source code. As a long-time professional software developer, I >> > am very wary of using GPL licensed code (and in fact never do so >> > except to link to the CRT and socket libary on Linux). The lesser GPL >> > licence would strike me as being a more suitable starting point for my >> > code. >> >> From what you say above, it sounds like you might want to use >> the BSD license. But then of course you will give up the right >> to charge Wolfram Inc. a license fee if your library is included in >> Mathematica (say). >> >> > However, arguing about the merits of GPL licences is not going to get >> > us anywhere. >> >> > I'm afraid I do not have either the time, the inclination, or the >> > ability, to develop an interface to my package in Sage, though I would >> > be very willing to provide any assistance I could to anyone else >> > interested in dooing such a thing. In fact my program is sufficiently >> >> In that case, you should open source your code, since that's your >> best bet as far getting free volunteer help to develop your library further >> so that it will be useful to the widest range of users. If you don't >> open source your code, such volunteer help is unlikely to appear. >> By "open source", I specifically mean "license your code under any >> GPL-compatible license". The restriction you listed originally >> in your first email is not GPL-compatible, unless by "commercial" >> you specifically mean "closed source", in which case it might be. >> >> > compatible with KBMAG, that if Sage has any kind of interface to that >> > beyond what is provided via its interface to GAP, it should either >> >> Sage does not have any kind of interface to KBMAG beyond what >> is provided by GAP. >> >> > work with my package as well, or be very easily adapted. KBMAG is >> > available a GAP package, and KBMAG comes as C source code with no >> > licence conditions at all. >> >> > It may well be that my package has nothing fundamentally new to offer, >> > but I think it would be a shame if nobody even takes a look at it >> > because of worries about licensing. >> >> Then license your code under an open source license. >> >> >> >> > I think my code would be of >> > interest to anyone with an interest in automatic groups, rewriting >> > systems, or finite state automata, if only because it is rpobably the >> > first automatic groups software written by someone who is more a >> > programmer than a mathematician. As the code is entirely my own work >> > it may not adhere to any particular set of coding standards, but I >> > think almost any competent programmer would find it very readable, and >> > I have worked hard to make the code both fast and reliable. My >> > package contains fast C++ code for building and verifying automatic >> > structures and doing word reduction using word differences or >> > multipliers, code which in principle works for any word-ordering >> > method at all, whereas KBMAG only fully supports shortlex. The code is >> > also completely self contained, so it should be easy to reuse. It is >> > not perfect by any means, for example I have not yet tried to build a >> > 64 bit version of it, and that will probably prove necessary at some >> > point, and my software is perhaps more memory hungry than it might be >> > (though when creating an FSA with 32 million states it would be >> > difficult to be anything else). >> >> > On Oct 31, 1:12 pm, "David Joyner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Unfortunately, your licensing restrictions seem to be incompatible with >> >> Sage. >> >> >> All Sage code must be GPL compatible. >> >> Seehttp://www.sagemath.org/doc/tut/node6.html >> >> andhttp://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0.html >> >> for information on the Sage goals and GPL2 license. >> >> >> However, you are free to write an interface and create an optional >> >> Sage package for Sage. >> >> Seehttp://www.sagemath.org/packages/optional/http://www.sagemath.org/pac... >> >> for some details. >> >> >> I hope you will be willing to consider relicensing your code one day! >> >> And please feel free to ask questions if this is unclear. >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 8:40 AM, alunw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >> > For the past few years I have been developing a package called MAF >> >> > which is a reimplementation in C++ of KBMAG. It extends KBMAG in >> >> > several ways, and is usually, though not always, a lot faster than it. >> >> > For example it can calculate the automatic structure of F(2,9) in >> >> > 10-15 minutes (depending on CPU speed) and the geodesic automatic >> >> > structure in about 90 minutes. It can find automatic structures or >> >> > confluent rewriting systems for many challenging presentations. Its >> >> > functionality can also be used via a library. For example I use it in >> >> > a screen saver type program to find automata for randomly chosen >> >> > hyperbolic and kleinan groups of various kinds and then use the >> >> > automata to draw pretty pictures. In some cases the groups have >> >> > automata which it would be difficult to create with KBMAG. >> >> >> > You can find out more about MAF on my web site >> >> > athttp://www.alunw.freeuk.com/MAF/maf.html >> >> > . The FSA code might well be useful for applications other than group >> >> > theory. >> >> >> > I have developed the package on a Windows based machine, but it should >> >> > be fairly easy to port to other platforms. (On Windows most of the >> >> > code is in a DLL, and I would like to use a shared object on Linux/ >> >> > Unix, but am not quite sure of the details - in the past I have >> >> > created .so files using C, but not C++ and am anticipating there will >> >> > be tricky issues with "name mangling". On Windows I also replaced most >> >> > of the CRT. On Unix/Linux the package could use the standard CRT but >> >> > this would probably result in a considerable increase in memory usage >> >> > as I provided a heap which is a lot better than the one that usually >> >> > comes with CRTs - for allocations up to about 1600 bytes it uses a >> >> > scheme which has an overhead of just over 1 bit per allocation instead >> >> > of the typical 8 bytes, and as my program might easily need to make in >> >> > excess of a 100 million memory allocations this overhead is very >> >> > significant) >> >> >> > I'd be happy to make the code available to Sage (about which I know >> >> > pratically nothing - I am following a suggestion in positing here). I >> >> > don't know much about open source licensing. The only conditions I >> >> > want to impose are: >> >> > 1) Anybody should be free to reuse my source code in non-commercial >> >> > software, change it in anyway they like and should not have to make >> >> > their program open source in order to do so. >> >> > 2) Anybody should be free to reuse my code in commercial software, >> >> > except for software which is principally concerned with the creation >> >> > of fractals, tessellations, and related mathematical imagery. For >> >> > commercial software of that nature I'd want to receive some payment, >> >> > as I have probably spent several man years developing this library and >> >> > that is how I intend to use it. For other types of software an >> >> > acknowledgement and a link to my web site would be enough. >> >> >> > I'd also be happy to donate my code to Sage as-is on a one off basis, >> >> > provided my rights to my own work are not affected in any way - I am >> >> > still developing the code with the aim of making it both smaller and >> >> > faster so that it can tackle more and more challenging presentations. >> >> >> > Of course there may already be much better alternatives to what I have >> >> > written... >> >> -- >> William Stein >> Associate Professor of Mathematics >> University of Washingtonhttp://wstein.org > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
