No, rave. Worse, easily. I suppose this is sour grapes on the parts of the fans, who feel justifiably let down by Lucas' art falling so far short of its potential, even before the money angle comes into play.
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Kelwyn <ravena...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > I am not a fan of anything Star Wars that comes after the Empire Strikes > Back. Still, it was the merchandising that gave Lucas the power and autonomy > to make both the Star Wars and Indiana Jones movies. I am all for total > artist control even if total artist control does not always lead to great > art. Would things have been better if the suits at Columbia controlled the > franchise? > > ~rave? > > --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com <scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com>, Bosco > Bosco <ironpi...@...> wrote: > > > > I dont even know where to begin. At least I know I'm right. Everything > post Empire has been designed to maximize merch sales rather than make great > movies. > > > > B > > > > --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Martin Baxter <martinbaxt...@...> wrote: > > > > From: Martin Baxter <martinbaxt...@...> > > > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Gary Kurtz Speaks Bluntly About George Lucas > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com <scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 8:05 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Keith, I would've loved to have seen Kurtz's proposed ending made real. > I've also read that the late SF author Leigh Brackett, who's listed as a > co-writer on "Empire", originally had Luke and Leia as NOT being brother and > sister, and that Luke had a twin sister somewhere out there, whom Han was > supposed to hook up with, allowing Luke and Leia to go off into the sunset > together. Lucas himself kiboshed that, but left in the kissing scenes. Draw > your own conclusions there... > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 8:56 AM, Keith Johnson <keithbjohn...@...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right. The online world used to be called Expanded Universe, but I can't > find that particular site anymore. Now it's unto Databank or something. But > yeah, all the aftermath stories show just how difficult it was to change the > course of the Empire. There were battles a-plenty left. Indeed, often there > can be more and more painful fighting after the evil leaders are gone. And > the relatively small number of Jedi would be hard tasked to restore a moral > center to the galaxy entire as they struggled to rebuild their Order and > make sure their own don't give in to temptation again. For example, I do > recall reading that the Emperor lived on in that shade form that Yodi and > Obi-Wan used, and continued to wreak his evil influence on people. I know > Luke is forced in a way to give in to the Dark Side, and I believe either > his son or his nephew also fell to the Darkness for a while. > > > > Realistically, the ending Kurtz mentions, with Leia overwhelmed by the > work to be done, and Luke walking away to contemplate a difficult future, > would have been better. I'm surprised someone hasn't created a fan film > where, right in the middle of the Ewok Lua, a force of ships loyal to the > Empire didn't show up and bomb the place. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Martin Baxter" <martinbaxt...@...> > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com <scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 6:28:56 AM > > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Gary Kurtz Speaks Bluntly About George Lucas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another spot-on analysis, Keith. Reminds me of a fantasy novel that came > out a few years ago (the name of which escapes me), considering what happens > after the happy ending, that there's the management and clean-up aspects yet > to be done. And I've read a few of the SW novels, enough to see the > strengthening foundation that been laid for the SWverse. One batch in > particular regards the Mandalorians (the clones of Jango Fett that chose not > to be Stormtroopers, packed up and left for Mandalor). They developed their > own unique culture, and even a language unlike any in the remnants of the > Empire. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 10:19 PM, Keith Johnson <keithbjohn...@...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The below from the interview really resonates with me. One problem i > always had with "Return of the Jedi" was the ending. I kept thinking that > just because the second Death Star was destroyed, and Vader and the Emperor > dead, that only meant the work was beginning. After all, there was a huge > interstellar apparatus in place that had aided and been complicit with the > Empire's depredations. This system included the rule of whole solar systems, > a corrupt Senate, leaders on hundreds of worlds loyal to the Empire that > gave them money and power, a military dedicated to the Empire, and a dearth > of Jedi to enforce the principles of the Old Republic. In short, the work > was indeed just beginning, and tackling the task of a galaxy-wide makeover > of a totalitarian state into a democratic one again would be a monumental > task. Look at how the former Soviet Union is already struggling mightily > with autocratic elements fighting with its democratic aspirations. They > > have a Prime Minister who was an autocratic president who's basically > their strong man. > > > > > > So the "Ewok lua" as he put it, was indeed premature. I think that if you > read some of the books, and study the Expanded Universe online, you see more > mature, thoughtful, and in-depth treatments that handle that world a lot > better than the kid- and crowd-pleasing movies. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Martin Baxter" <martinbaxt...@...> > > To: "SciFiNoir2" <scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com<scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 5:01:40 PM > > Subject: [scifinoir2] Gary Kurtz Speaks Bluntly About George Lucas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > George Lucas, Mercenary Bastich First Class? You betcha, according to > Kurtz... > > > > > http://www.collider.com/2010/08/13/star-wars-and-empire-strikes-back-producer-gary-kurtz-speaks-bluntly-about-george-lucas-return-of-the-jedi-and-more/ > > > > > > > > > > -- > > "If all the world's a stage and we are merely players, who the bloody > hell wrote the script?" -- Charles E Grant > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > "If all the world's a stage and we are merely players, who the bloody > hell wrote the script?" -- Charles E Grant > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > "If all the world's a stage and we are merely players, who the bloody > hell wrote the script?" -- Charles E Grant > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik > > > > > -- "If all the world's a stage and we are merely players, who the bloody hell wrote the script?" -- Charles E Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik
