Hey Colin, It definitely does. What you refer too, I generally associate with BDD (Behavior Driven Design) and it’s most common tool Cucumber: That I have not liked. I also think that product owners, realistically, are never going to write ‘cukes’. That, is not TDD, at least in my understanding.
By TDD, I go by [Wikipedia’s definition][1] (first paragraph) — Test-driven development (TDD) is a software development process that relies on the repetition of a very short development cycle: first the developer writes an (initially failing) automated test case that defines a desired improvement or new function, then produces the minimum amount of code to pass that test, and finally refactors the new code to acceptable standards. --- [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test-driven_development -- Ylan Segal [email protected] On Thursday, May 8, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Colin Ross wrote: > As I pointed out, I'm distinguishing between ~when~ you write your tests and > what is ~driving~ your development. I write my tests first, but the perfect > world the TDD evangelist would promote of having your stakeholder writing > some high level (think something like cucumber) test as the product or > feature spec is dead (if it ever lived in the first place). The fact of the > matter is that in most companies and groups I've worked with, the product > 'owners' either don't have the skills/expertise/comfort to write those high > level tests or they feel like that is on the engineering-side of the fence > and toss over some non-code document for us engineers to parse into a codable > spec. > > Hopefully that clears up my point. > > Colin > > On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 7:57:06 PM UTC-7, Ylan Segal wrote: > > I disagree Colin. > > > > I test-drive most of my code and find it very useful. As any other skill > > it, requieres practice. > > > > I have found that I am more confident "growing" my code guided by test. > > When I write tests after the fact it always feels like a chore. > > > > That said, I dislike tests that are obsessed with mocking everything except > > the code under tests. I think those tests are brittle and I worry about > > false green because of drifting apis hidden by mocks. > > > > -- > > Ylan Segal > > > > > > On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 5:21 PM, Colin Ross wrote: > > > > > Yes, I agree with Jarin. > > > TDD (Test DRIVEN development) as in tests being to main driver to > > > software development is dead (or, more so imho, never really *lived* in > > > the first place). Testing code and giving a great importance to having a > > > maintained, constantly passing, and rigorous test suite is alive and > > > well. This doesn't discount actually writing a test for a feature before > > > you implement said feature, which I agree with as a best practice, but > > > test are not a substitute for the real stakeholder of your product. > > > > > > Colin > > > > > > On Tuesday, May 6, 2014 4:45:36 PM UTC-7, Jarin Udom wrote: > > > > I think it should be made clear that whether or not TDD is dead, > > > > *testing* is still alive and well :) > > > > > > > > Jarin > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, May 6, 2014 1:51:34 PM UTC-7, Rafael Cardoso wrote: > > > > > ThoughtWorks is organizing a friendly conversation about the death of > > > > > TDD between big names in our space. > > > > > > > > > > I thought the group would be interested to watch: > > > > > > > > > > https://plus.google.com/events/ci2g23mk0lh9too9bgbp3rbut0k > > > > > > -- > > > -- > > > SD Ruby mailing list > > > [email protected] (javascript:) > > > http://groups.google.com/group/sdruby > > > --- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > "SD Ruby" group. > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > > email to [email protected] (javascript:). > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > -- > SD Ruby mailing list > [email protected] (mailto:[email protected]) > http://groups.google.com/group/sdruby > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SD > Ruby" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > (mailto:[email protected]). > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- SD Ruby mailing list [email protected] http://groups.google.com/group/sdruby --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SD Ruby" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
