Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
>>>: Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is it to >>>secure the borders?<<< Two things again: First,two wrongs don't make a right. Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so that the thugs could have field day. KJD B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you premise, who are you or I to take issue with it as you do here? What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take issue with it, other than your personal On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: >> The central theme is such cases is >> Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it >> needs to be separate from India. > > > That is what IMAGINING a national identity is all about. What is India? > How is it different from Pakistan, or B'desh, or Nepal or SriLanka. > All national identities are born out of a imaginations trhat they are. There > are NO rules that govern it. > > Or are there? > > > >>n many a case I suspect, the aim is >> >> cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them >> best. > > > > Let us accept the premise here. If so, is there a law against that? Or is > it unethical according to some standard of ethical practices? > Who are these conspirators who choose to cherry pick? And WHAT IS their > interest, their motives? > > > > >> Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally >> entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing >> the entire political landscape of these regions. > > > > TWO points to note here: > > A: Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is it to > secure the borders? > > B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you premise, who > are you or I to take issue with it as you do here? > What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take issue > with it, other than your personal > preferences or, more precisely, prejudices? > > > finally, I think Sanjiv Goswami is exactly right with his analyses and > conclusions. > > > > > > On Aug 18, 2010, at 7:45 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >> Very well put KJD. >> >> Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies. >> >> Quite often, we find some groups of people demanding a unique identity for >> Assam (or Kashmir as the case may be). The central theme is such cases is >> Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it >> needs to be separate from India. >> >> Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally >> entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing >> the entire political landscape of these regions. Now, suddenly these same >> folks are willing to embrace the B'deshis with open arms. And everyone is >> required to show empathy to the illegal immigrants. There are suggestions to >> erase borders and think of the world with no borders. >> >> The political aims of these groups are probably hidden somewhere between >> these two juxtaposing sets of ideas. In many a case I suspect, the aim is >> cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them >> best. >> >> btw: Uttam - thanks for forwarding this. It is an important topic to be >> discussing, and hopefully discussions are taken in that spirit. -- Ram da >> >> Just my 2 cents. >> >> --Ram >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:17 PM, kamal deka wrote: >> >>> When did this >>> word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, >>> but >>> it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days >>> of >>> Mahabharat.If that is so, what happened to the original people of >>> those Mahabharat times <<< >>> >>> If we take the legitimacy of current nation-states on the basis of >>> centuries of common continuous political rule over the same >>> geographical boundary and inhabited by the same people, then >>> practically no country on the planet meets this criteria. Simply put, >>> shifting nature of political kingdoms and their boundaries over the >>> centuries legitimize virtually no country in its present form. >>> KJD >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur >>> wrote: The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as >>> this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person >>> ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and >>> engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to >>> understand. Please read on:- "Hi All, Reading .. after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped >>> up here and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I >>> would like to clarify for . sake that my question of who is an Assamese >>> is
Re: [Assam] Fw: Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
Is there a single person in Assam whose opinion needs to be built as to your remark? 1947 or 1971 is vastly different from " many centuries".Could you single out an individual in Assam,who questions about this?What has made you to leap to the conclusion that 1971 equates " many centuries ago"? KJD On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 9:28 PM, Dilip Deka wrote: > Also remember, the people who migrated to Assam many centuries ago and their > descendants have as much right to remain in Assam, as any of the tribes, > hills or plain. That includes Kamal Deka, Chandan Mahanta, me and many others. > Ram Sarangapani gets his rights by assimilation later. :-) > > > > - Forwarded Message > From: Dilip Deka > To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world > > Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 9:20:22 PM > Subject: Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story > > I have just one comment - we cannot live in the past, we need to live n the > present and prepare for the future. > > > > > > From: Ram Sarangapani > To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world > > Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 7:45:26 PM > Subject: Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story > > Very well put KJD. > > Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies. > > Quite often, we find some groups of people demanding a unique identity for > Assam (or Kashmir as the case may be). The central theme is such cases is > Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it > needs to be separate from India. > > Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally > entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing > the entire political landscape of these regions. Now, suddenly these same > folks are willing to embrace the B'deshis with open arms. And everyone is > required to show empathy to the illegal immigrants. There are suggestions to > erase borders and think of the world with no borders. > > The political aims of these groups are probably hidden somewhere between > these two juxtaposing sets of ideas. In many a case I suspect, the aim is > cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them > best. > > btw: Uttam - thanks for forwarding this. It is an important topic to be > discussing, and hopefully discussions are taken in that spirit. -- Ram da > > Just my 2 cents. > > --Ram > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:17 PM, kamal deka wrote: > >> When did this >> word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, >> but >> it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days >> of >> Mahabharat.If that is so, what happened to the original people of >> those Mahabharat times <<< >> >> If we take the legitimacy of current nation-states on the basis of >> centuries of common continuous political rule over the same >> geographical boundary and inhabited by the same people, then >> practically no country on the planet meets this criteria. Simply put, >> shifting nature of political kingdoms and their boundaries over the >> centuries legitimize virtually no country in its present form. >> KJD >> >> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur >> wrote: >> > The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as >> this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person >> ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and >> engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to >> understand. Please read on:- >> > "Hi All, >> > >> > Reading .. after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped >> up here >> > and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I >> would >> > like to clarify for . sake that my question of who is an Assamese >> is >> > something which each of us need to ask. We are all bloody immigrants >> ourselves >> > (a term used now in the Australian election campaign) or atleast most of >> us are >> > and we came as poor people or as religious preachers or as conquerors. >> But we >> > have taken over the land and now call ourselves Assamese, because >> someone, not >> > too long ago, decided to call this part of the world as Assam. When did >> this >> > word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is >> confusing, but >> > it is well established that his word and this language is not from the >> days of >> > Mahabharat. >> > >> > If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat >> times ? >> > Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now >> classed >> > as ST and are fighting for survival, not from onslaught of bangladeshis, >> as >> > .. suggests, but from us !!!. We never ever referred to them >> as Assamese, >> > but would call them as Naga or Khasi or Bodo or Lalung etc. So much so >> that e
[Assam] From N Y Times/Despite Swirl of Scandals, Indian Mining Bosses Thrive
Desi-demokrasy's shining stars! cm http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/world/asia/19india.html?hp BELLARY, India — Janardhana Reddy insists he is not a king. No, no, no, he protested, as a servant trotted across the courtyard to deliver a cup of cooled water. Men with machine guns stood outside. An architect waited to discuss the new mansion, while another man hovered nearby, sitting in the grass. Multimedia Slide Show India’s Mining Magnates Related Memo From Srinagar: Deadly Protests in Kashmir Test India’s Inclusive Ideals (August 19, 2010) “He’s the state minister of health,” Mr. Reddy said of the man in the grass, who stood up, made a little bow and hurried away. Mr. Reddy may not be a king, but he does represent a new phenomenon in the political economy of India: He and his brothers are the country’s most powerful mining bosses at a time when illegal mining has become a national scandal, amid accusations that billions of dollars of publicly owned minerals have been stolen, often by people holding public office. For decades, moneyed interests have bankrolled India’s political parties, but nouveaux mining magnates like the Reddy brothers have conflated money and politics in far more naked fashion, as the thirst for iron ore in India, and more so in China, has created huge fortunes. Mining scandals have emerged in at least five Indian states, with more than 20,000 complaints of illegal mining filed nationally in the past three months. Politicians in several states are accused of enriching themselves or their friends, including a former chief minister of the state of Jharkhand, who is charged with extorting huge bribes in exchange for granting mining leases. This week, the Indian media reported that the central government would form an inquiry to investigate illegal mining across the country, a move regarded as a first step in reversing past failings in regulation. Here in the southern state of Karnataka, the controversy surrounding the Reddy brothers has become a national political melodrama, threatening at different times to bring down the state government, while also throwing global markets for iron ore into turmoil. The Reddys, who say they are innocent of claims of illegal mining, have transformed themselves in less than a decade from obscure activists for the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party, or B.J.P., into political bosses who directly or indirectly control three state ministries and dominate local government in the Bellary district, which holds the state’s richest iron ore deposits. “You’ve never had mining dons entering politics and controlling government,” said Ramachandra Guha, a historian who lives in the state capital of Bangalore. “They are more or less uncrowned kings in their district. There is a level of brazenness that even by the standards of Indian politics is new.” What prompted the change, and the rush by political figures into mining, was the steady rise in iron ore prices during the past decade. India relaxed its export restrictions at roughly the same time that China was in the throes of the biggest construction boom in history, culminating with the 2008 Olympics in Beijing. Technical advances allowed more types of ore to be exported, and the price per metric ton soared. Where once it had brought about $17, today the price is about $130. “It encouraged practically everybody who was somebody to come into this business,” said N. Santosh Hegde, a former justice on India’s Supreme Court who is leading an official corruption investigation into illegal mining in Karnataka. “People who had no knowledge of mining but who had money power or muscle power — either would work — they came into mining. It really became sort of a rat race.” Mr. Hegde’s investigation has discovered that at least 10 members of the Indian Parliament or the Karnataka state assembly control leases in the Bellary region. By 2004, when the Reddys got their first lease, they had emerged as political players. The sons of a police constable, Janardhana Reddy and his two brothers had been key supporters of a B.J.P. candidate, Sushma Swaraj, in a local parliamentary race in 1999 that became a national showdown against Sonia Gandhi, the scion of the governing Indian National Congress Party. Ms. Gandhi won the race, but the Reddys would steadily turn the Congress Party stronghold toward the B.J.P. Ms. Swaraj, now the leader of the opposition in Parliament, became their patron. To get rich, however, the Reddys transcended partisanship and allied themselves with the Congress Party’s Y.S.R. Reddy (who is no relation), the powerful chief minister in the neighboring state of Andhra Pradesh. Iron ore deposits straddle the border of the two states, and the Reddys obtained leases on the Andhra Pradesh side. The Reddys got richer, bought a helicopter and are believed to have bankrolled numerous political campaigns. In 2008, they financed B.J.P. victories tha
Re: [Assam] Fw: Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
>Ram Sarangapani gets his rights by assimilation later. :-) > > There is no zealot like a new convert, is there :-)? On Aug 18, 2010, at 9:28 PM, Dilip Deka wrote: > Also remember, the people who migrated to Assam many centuries ago and their > descendants have as much right to remain in Assam, as any of the tribes, > hills or plain. That includes Kamal Deka, Chandan Mahanta, me and many > others. > Ram Sarangapani gets his rights by assimilation later. :-) > > > > - Forwarded Message > From: Dilip Deka > To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world > > Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 9:20:22 PM > Subject: Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story > > I have just one comment - we cannot live in the past, we need to live n the > present and prepare for the future. > > > > > > From: Ram Sarangapani > To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world > > Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 7:45:26 PM > Subject: Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story > > Very well put KJD. > > Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies. > > Quite often, we find some groups of people demanding a unique identity for > Assam (or Kashmir as the case may be). The central theme is such cases is > Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it > needs to be separate from India. > > Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally > entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing > the entire political landscape of these regions. Now, suddenly these same > folks are willing to embrace the B'deshis with open arms. And everyone is > required to show empathy to the illegal immigrants. There are suggestions to > erase borders and think of the world with no borders. > > The political aims of these groups are probably hidden somewhere between > these two juxtaposing sets of ideas. In many a case I suspect, the aim is > cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them > best. > > btw: Uttam - thanks for forwarding this. It is an important topic to be > discussing, and hopefully discussions are taken in that spirit. -- Ram da > > Just my 2 cents. > > --Ram > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:17 PM, kamal deka wrote: > >> When did this >> word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, >> but >> it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days >> of >> Mahabharat.If that is so, what happened to the original people of >> those Mahabharat times <<< >> >> If we take the legitimacy of current nation-states on the basis of >> centuries of common continuous political rule over the same >> geographical boundary and inhabited by the same people, then >> practically no country on the planet meets this criteria. Simply put, >> shifting nature of political kingdoms and their boundaries over the >> centuries legitimize virtually no country in its present form. >> KJD >> >> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur >> wrote: >>> The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as >> this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person >> ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and >> engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to >> understand. Please read on:- >>> "Hi All, >>> >>> Reading .. after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped >> up here >>> and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I >> would >>> like to clarify for . sake that my question of who is an Assamese >> is >>> something which each of us need to ask. We are all bloody immigrants >> ourselves >>> (a term used now in the Australian election campaign) or atleast most of >> us are >>> and we came as poor people or as religious preachers or as conquerors. >> But we >>> have taken over the land and now call ourselves Assamese, because >> someone, not >>> too long ago, decided to call this part of the world as Assam. When did >> this >>> word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is >> confusing, but >>> it is well established that his word and this language is not from the >> days of >>> Mahabharat. >>> >>> If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat >> times ? >>> Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now >> classed >>> as ST and are fighting for survival, not from onslaught of bangladeshis, >> as >>> .. suggests, but from us !!!. We never ever referred to them >> as Assamese, >>> but would call them as Naga or Khasi or Bodo or Lalung etc. So much so >> that even >>> the people who were here before us, like the original Assamese Hindu >> people of >>> upper Assam and Golaghat (referring to Jabeen and her folks) w
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
Not quite yet.Unless one does not stop giving harangue,the war will continue in full swing.After all,why should we take things lying down:-) Kamal. On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Dilip Deka wrote: > > > Dear Kamal, > So, do we have a level playing field or do we need to level it some more? > I get lost when it comes to levelling the fields. > Dilipda > > > > > > From: kamal deka > To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world > > Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 7:06:45 PM > Subject: Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story > I haven't heard of any mass > murder, crimes by Assamese towards the tribal people. The writer seems to > harbour a guilty feeling. Can't comment on his or his forefathers' deeds<<< > > There were at least16 or 17 MLAs elected to the Assam Legislative > Assembly FROM THE UNRESERVED CONSTITUENCIES AND ALL OF THEM BELONGED > TO THE SCHEDULED TRIBES ( PLAINS).To name a few,Khana Kanta > Boro,Padmalochan Boro,Purna Boro,Dambarudhar Brahma,Ganash > Boro,Thaneswar Boro,Durga Das Boro,Tejendra Narzary,Kalendra > Basumatary,Mohini Basumatary,Kalendra Basumatary,Derhgra Mushahary et > al. > Therefore,it shows that the members of the Schedules Tribes took > active part in the process of decision making on the floor of the > house. > > The legislature is a forum where the elected members ventilate the > grievances of the people of the constituencies and they have > opportunities to expose the inadequacies/shortcomings of the > administration.The members have an opportunity to shape and finalise > the policies of the Government. > > NOW THE QUESTION IS TO WHAT EXTENT THEY HAD PLAYED THE ROLE TOWARDS > SOLUTION OF THE PROBLEMS WITH HONESTY,SINCERITY AND EFFECTIVELY. > > KJD > > On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Jyotirmoy Sharma > wrote: >> Not buying it.. Khasi,Garos, Nagas, Mizos never called them Assamese to >> begin with. They had their own unique culture, religion and norms. >> >> "If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat >> times ? >> Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now >> classed as ST and are fighting for survival" - I am not suffering from a >> guilty conscience for something I haven't done. On a similar note, the >> current generation of Australians cannot be held accountable for what their >> great grandfathers did to the Aboriginals. I haven't heard of any mass >> murder, crimes by Assamese towards the tribal people. The writer seems to >> harbour a guilty feeling. Can't comment on his or his forefathers' deeds. >> BTW, an ST is by choice, not forced as claimed by the author. You would be a >> fool to want be be classed in the general category while you can enjoy the >> benefits of a ST. Aren't the Bodos of in Karbi Anglong demanding an ST >> status too ... Who forced them? >> The writer should ask a Khasi in Shillong if he wants to be classed in a >> general catergory, being so advanced in education, lifestyle compared to the >> tribals of Jharkhand, Andhra etc. I would like to know if they would ever >> want to come out of the "ST" tag FORCED on them as claimed. >> >> "... a few people from Bangladesh " ... that's something new. Not only >> Assam, but our neighbours are also complaining. Bloody liars they must be. >> A nation is bound by timelines. Once a state, country is formed there are >> rules to abide by as far as migration, settlement is concerned. Uncontrolled >> migration cannot be accepted. >> >> The people of Mahabharat times - if the author is referring to the tribal >> population of Assam( and NE ), they would also be tracing their roots >> somewhere else if the timeline is moved back. >> JS >> ___ >> assam mailing list >> assam@assamnet.org >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
> The central theme is such cases is > Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it > needs to be separate from India. That is what IMAGINING a national identity is all about. What is India? How is it different from Pakistan, or B'desh, or Nepal or SriLanka. All national identities are born out of a imaginations trhat they are. There are NO rules that govern it. Or are there? >n many a case I suspect, the aim is > > cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them > best. Let us accept the premise here. If so, is there a law against that? Or is it unethical according to some standard of ethical practices? Who are these conspirators who choose to cherry pick? And WHAT IS their interest, their motives? > Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally > entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing > the entire political landscape of these regions. TWO points to note here: A: Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is it to secure the borders? B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you premise, who are you or I to take issue with it as you do here? What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take issue with it, other than your personal preferences or, more precisely, prejudices? finally, I think Sanjiv Goswami is exactly right with his analyses and conclusions. On Aug 18, 2010, at 7:45 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > Very well put KJD. > > Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies. > > Quite often, we find some groups of people demanding a unique identity for > Assam (or Kashmir as the case may be). The central theme is such cases is > Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it > needs to be separate from India. > > Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally > entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing > the entire political landscape of these regions. Now, suddenly these same > folks are willing to embrace the B'deshis with open arms. And everyone is > required to show empathy to the illegal immigrants. There are suggestions to > erase borders and think of the world with no borders. > > The political aims of these groups are probably hidden somewhere between > these two juxtaposing sets of ideas. In many a case I suspect, the aim is > cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them > best. > > btw: Uttam - thanks for forwarding this. It is an important topic to be > discussing, and hopefully discussions are taken in that spirit. -- Ram da > > Just my 2 cents. > > --Ram > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:17 PM, kamal deka wrote: > >> When did this >> word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, >> but >> it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days >> of >> Mahabharat.If that is so, what happened to the original people of >> those Mahabharat times <<< >> >> If we take the legitimacy of current nation-states on the basis of >> centuries of common continuous political rule over the same >> geographical boundary and inhabited by the same people, then >> practically no country on the planet meets this criteria. Simply put, >> shifting nature of political kingdoms and their boundaries over the >> centuries legitimize virtually no country in its present form. >> KJD >> >> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur >> wrote: >>> The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as >> this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person >> ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and >> engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to >> understand. Please read on:- >>> "Hi All, >>> >>> Reading .. after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped >> up here >>> and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I >> would >>> like to clarify for . sake that my question of who is an Assamese >> is >>> something which each of us need to ask. We are all bloody immigrants >> ourselves >>> (a term used now in the Australian election campaign) or atleast most of >> us are >>> and we came as poor people or as religious preachers or as conquerors. >> But we >>> have taken over the land and now call ourselves Assamese, because >> someone, not >>> too long ago, decided to call this part of the world as Assam. When did >> this >>> word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is >> confusing, but >>> it is well established that his word and this language is not from the >> days of >>> Mahabharat. >>> >>> If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat >> times ? >>> Well, we relegated them to the back
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
converted to Islam after coming into contact wth Azan Peer, are now no longer referred to Assamese by us, the bloody immigrants, but only as Asomiya Musalman Just a snipet from The Assam Tribune: KJD INDIGENOUS MUSLIMS CONCERNED OVER UNABATED INFLUX Correspondent SIVASAGAR, Nov 23 – That the unabated influx from neighbouring Bangladesh has significantly altered the demographic pattern of Assam and the indigenous Muslim population is fast outnumbered by their Bangladeshi counterparts illegally settling mainly in the districts of lower Assam, has become a serious cause of concern for the conscious indigenous Muslim community of the State. The indigenous Muslim population, particularly of the Upper Assam districts have long been perceiving that a silent cultural invasion from across the border is about to rob them of all cultural and political rights guaranteed under the Constitution besides posing threat to the fabric of great assimilated Assamese nationalism. This is what was precisely discussed about in a meeting organised by Sivasagar unit of Asomiya Muslim Unnayan Parishad at Sivasagar Press Club on Friday which was addressed among others by Nekibur Zaman, senior advocate, Guwahati High Court, Md Tabiul Hussain, retd DC, Morigaon, Imtiaz Hussain Hazarika, president, Sodou Asom Khilonjia Muslim Suraksha Samity, Samsul Haque, Asomiya Muslim Unnayan Samity and a number of speakers from different places. Addressing the meeting, advocate Nekibur Zaman said that the lower Assam districts have been enjoying all the socio-economic and political privileges accorded to the minorities. Citing examples, he said that under a special Central Government grant of about Rs 703 crores for minority development in the State, Barpeta district alone got Rs 85 crores while Dhubri district got about Rs 84 crores which is a clear discrimination against the upper Assam districts. Indigenous Muslims, the descendents of Bokhtiar Khiliji’s soldiers and the descendants of the followers of Mir Jumla who On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur wrote: > The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as > this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person > ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and > engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to > understand. Please read on:- > "Hi All, > > Reading .. after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped up > here > and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I would > like to clarify for . sake that my question of who is an Assamese is > something which each of us need to ask. We are all bloody immigrants ourselves > (a term used now in the Australian election campaign) or atleast most of us > are > and we came as poor people or as religious preachers or as conquerors. But we > have taken over the land and now call ourselves Assamese, because someone, not > too long ago, decided to call this part of the world as Assam. When did this > word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, but > it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days of > Mahabharat. > > If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat times > ? > Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now classed > as ST and are fighting for survival, not from onslaught of bangladeshis, as > .. suggests, but from us !!!. We never ever referred to them as > Assamese, > but would call them as Naga or Khasi or Bodo or Lalung etc. So much so that > even > the people who were here before us, like the original Assamese Hindu people of > upper Assam and Golaghat (referring to Jabeen and her folks) who later > converted to Islam after coming into contact wth Azan Peer, are now no longer > referred to Assamese by us, the bloody immigrants, but only as Asomiya > Musalman. > Did anyone ever refer to any of us as Assamese Hindu ? But we, the bloody > immigrants, always prefix or suffix such terms with others.. Bongali Hindu is > another example. > > No wonder, many of these people have now left us, others are trying to get > away > from us and while still others are in the process. It is therefore no wonder, > that the only community that wants to get close to us as Assamese(others want > to > leave us anyway) i.e. the immigrants from present Bangladesh, are shunned. And > this in spite of the fact that there is no data on when they came as > immigrants, > many had in fact come well before independence (as reported by the Governor > hujur in his report to the President.. see www.satp.org for the full report). > > The question of immigration is an age old one and there are thousands of books > and theories all around. The problem is not of immigrant, Chiranjit, but of > perception towards immigrants. It is also a question related to electoral > politi
[Assam] Fw: Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
Also remember, the people who migrated to Assam many centuries ago and their descendants have as much right to remain in Assam, as any of the tribes, hills or plain. That includes Kamal Deka, Chandan Mahanta, me and many others. Ram Sarangapani gets his rights by assimilation later. :-) - Forwarded Message From: Dilip Deka To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 9:20:22 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story I have just one comment - we cannot live in the past, we need to live n the present and prepare for the future. From: Ram Sarangapani To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 7:45:26 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story Very well put KJD. Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies. Quite often, we find some groups of people demanding a unique identity for Assam (or Kashmir as the case may be). The central theme is such cases is Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it needs to be separate from India. Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing the entire political landscape of these regions. Now, suddenly these same folks are willing to embrace the B'deshis with open arms. And everyone is required to show empathy to the illegal immigrants. There are suggestions to erase borders and think of the world with no borders. The political aims of these groups are probably hidden somewhere between these two juxtaposing sets of ideas. In many a case I suspect, the aim is cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them best. btw: Uttam - thanks for forwarding this. It is an important topic to be discussing, and hopefully discussions are taken in that spirit. -- Ram da Just my 2 cents. --Ram On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:17 PM, kamal deka wrote: > When did this > word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, > but > it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days > of > Mahabharat.If that is so, what happened to the original people of > those Mahabharat times <<< > > If we take the legitimacy of current nation-states on the basis of > centuries of common continuous political rule over the same > geographical boundary and inhabited by the same people, then > practically no country on the planet meets this criteria. Simply put, > shifting nature of political kingdoms and their boundaries over the > centuries legitimize virtually no country in its present form. > KJD > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur > wrote: > > The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as > this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person > ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and > engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to > understand. Please read on:- > > "Hi All, > > > > Reading .. after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped > up here > > and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I > would > > like to clarify for . sake that my question of who is an Assamese > is > > something which each of us need to ask. We are all bloody immigrants > ourselves > > (a term used now in the Australian election campaign) or atleast most of > us are > > and we came as poor people or as religious preachers or as conquerors. > But we > > have taken over the land and now call ourselves Assamese, because > someone, not > > too long ago, decided to call this part of the world as Assam. When did > this > > word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is > confusing, but > > it is well established that his word and this language is not from the > days of > > Mahabharat. > > > > If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat > times ? > > Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now > classed > > as ST and are fighting for survival, not from onslaught of bangladeshis, > as > > .. suggests, but from us !!!. We never ever referred to them > as Assamese, > > but would call them as Naga or Khasi or Bodo or Lalung etc. So much so > that even > > the people who were here before us, like the original Assamese Hindu > people of > > upper Assam and Golaghat (referring to Jabeen and her folks) who later > > converted to Islam after coming into contact wth Azan Peer, are now no > longer > > referred to Assamese by us, the bloody immigrants, but only as Asomiya > Musalman. > > Did anyone ever refer to any of us as Assamese Hindu ? But we, the bloody > > immigrants, always prefix or suffix such terms with others.. Bongali > Hindu is > > anothe
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
I have just one comment - we cannot live in the past, we need to live n the present and prepare for the future. From: Ram Sarangapani To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 7:45:26 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story Very well put KJD. Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies. Quite often, we find some groups of people demanding a unique identity for Assam (or Kashmir as the case may be). The central theme is such cases is Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it needs to be separate from India. Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing the entire political landscape of these regions. Now, suddenly these same folks are willing to embrace the B'deshis with open arms. And everyone is required to show empathy to the illegal immigrants. There are suggestions to erase borders and think of the world with no borders. The political aims of these groups are probably hidden somewhere between these two juxtaposing sets of ideas. In many a case I suspect, the aim is cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them best. btw: Uttam - thanks for forwarding this. It is an important topic to be discussing, and hopefully discussions are taken in that spirit. -- Ram da Just my 2 cents. --Ram On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:17 PM, kamal deka wrote: > When did this > word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, > but > it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days > of > Mahabharat.If that is so, what happened to the original people of > those Mahabharat times <<< > > If we take the legitimacy of current nation-states on the basis of > centuries of common continuous political rule over the same > geographical boundary and inhabited by the same people, then > practically no country on the planet meets this criteria. Simply put, > shifting nature of political kingdoms and their boundaries over the > centuries legitimize virtually no country in its present form. > KJD > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur > wrote: > > The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as > this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person > ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and > engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to > understand. Please read on:- > > "Hi All, > > > > Reading .. after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped > up here > > and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I > would > > like to clarify for . sake that my question of who is an Assamese > is > > something which each of us need to ask. We are all bloody immigrants > ourselves > > (a term used now in the Australian election campaign) or atleast most of > us are > > and we came as poor people or as religious preachers or as conquerors. > But we > > have taken over the land and now call ourselves Assamese, because > someone, not > > too long ago, decided to call this part of the world as Assam. When did > this > > word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is > confusing, but > > it is well established that his word and this language is not from the > days of > > Mahabharat. > > > > If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat > times ? > > Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now > classed > > as ST and are fighting for survival, not from onslaught of bangladeshis, > as > > .. suggests, but from us !!!. We never ever referred to them > as Assamese, > > but would call them as Naga or Khasi or Bodo or Lalung etc. So much so > that even > > the people who were here before us, like the original Assamese Hindu > people of > > upper Assam and Golaghat (referring to Jabeen and her folks) who later > > converted to Islam after coming into contact wth Azan Peer, are now no > longer > > referred to Assamese by us, the bloody immigrants, but only as Asomiya > Musalman. > > Did anyone ever refer to any of us as Assamese Hindu ? But we, the bloody > > immigrants, always prefix or suffix such terms with others.. Bongali > Hindu is > > another example. > > > > No wonder, many of these people have now left us, others are trying to > get away > > from us and while still others are in the process. It is therefore no > wonder, > > that the only community that wants to get close to us as Assamese(others > want to > > leave us anyway) i.e. the immigrants from present Bangladesh, are > shunned. And > > this in spite of the fact that there is no data on when they came as > immigrants, > > many had in fact come well before independence (as reported by the
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
Dear Kamal, So, do we have a level playing field or do we need to level it some more? I get lost when it comes to levelling the fields. Dilipda From: kamal deka To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 7:06:45 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story >>> I haven't heard of any mass murder, crimes by Assamese towards the tribal people. The writer seems to harbour a guilty feeling. Can't comment on his or his forefathers' deeds<<< There were at least16 or 17 MLAs elected to the Assam Legislative Assembly FROM THE UNRESERVED CONSTITUENCIES AND ALL OF THEM BELONGED TO THE SCHEDULED TRIBES ( PLAINS).To name a few,Khana Kanta Boro,Padmalochan Boro,Purna Boro,Dambarudhar Brahma,Ganash Boro,Thaneswar Boro,Durga Das Boro,Tejendra Narzary,Kalendra Basumatary,Mohini Basumatary,Kalendra Basumatary,Derhgra Mushahary et al. Therefore,it shows that the members of the Schedules Tribes took active part in the process of decision making on the floor of the house. The legislature is a forum where the elected members ventilate the grievances of the people of the constituencies and they have opportunities to expose the inadequacies/shortcomings of the administration.The members have an opportunity to shape and finalise the policies of the Government. NOW THE QUESTION IS TO WHAT EXTENT THEY HAD PLAYED THE ROLE TOWARDS SOLUTION OF THE PROBLEMS WITH HONESTY,SINCERITY AND EFFECTIVELY. KJD On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Jyotirmoy Sharma wrote: > Not buying it.. Khasi,Garos, Nagas, Mizos never called them Assamese to > begin with. They had their own unique culture, religion and norms. > > "If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat > times ? > Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now > classed as ST and are fighting for survival" - I am not suffering from a > guilty conscience for something I haven't done. On a similar note, the > current generation of Australians cannot be held accountable for what their > great grandfathers did to the Aboriginals. I haven't heard of any mass > murder, crimes by Assamese towards the tribal people. The writer seems to > harbour a guilty feeling. Can't comment on his or his forefathers' deeds. > BTW, an ST is by choice, not forced as claimed by the author. You would be a > fool to want be be classed in the general category while you can enjoy the > benefits of a ST. Aren't the Bodos of in Karbi Anglong demanding an ST > status too ... Who forced them? > The writer should ask a Khasi in Shillong if he wants to be classed in a > general catergory, being so advanced in education, lifestyle compared to the > tribals of Jharkhand, Andhra etc. I would like to know if they would ever > want to come out of the "ST" tag FORCED on them as claimed. > > "... a few people from Bangladesh " ... that's something new. Not only > Assam, but our neighbours are also complaining. Bloody liars they must be. > A nation is bound by timelines. Once a state, country is formed there are > rules to abide by as far as migration, settlement is concerned. Uncontrolled > migration cannot be accepted. > > The people of Mahabharat times - if the author is referring to the tribal > population of Assam( and NE ), they would also be tracing their roots > somewhere else if the timeline is moved back. > JS > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
Very well put KJD. Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies. Quite often, we find some groups of people demanding a unique identity for Assam (or Kashmir as the case may be). The central theme is such cases is Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it needs to be separate from India. Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing the entire political landscape of these regions. Now, suddenly these same folks are willing to embrace the B'deshis with open arms. And everyone is required to show empathy to the illegal immigrants. There are suggestions to erase borders and think of the world with no borders. The political aims of these groups are probably hidden somewhere between these two juxtaposing sets of ideas. In many a case I suspect, the aim is cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them best. btw: Uttam - thanks for forwarding this. It is an important topic to be discussing, and hopefully discussions are taken in that spirit. -- Ram da Just my 2 cents. --Ram On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:17 PM, kamal deka wrote: > When did this > word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, > but > it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days > of > Mahabharat.If that is so, what happened to the original people of > those Mahabharat times <<< > > If we take the legitimacy of current nation-states on the basis of > centuries of common continuous political rule over the same > geographical boundary and inhabited by the same people, then > practically no country on the planet meets this criteria. Simply put, > shifting nature of political kingdoms and their boundaries over the > centuries legitimize virtually no country in its present form. > KJD > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur > wrote: > > The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as > this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person > ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and > engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to > understand. Please read on:- > > "Hi All, > > > > Reading .. after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped > up here > > and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I > would > > like to clarify for . sake that my question of who is an Assamese > is > > something which each of us need to ask. We are all bloody immigrants > ourselves > > (a term used now in the Australian election campaign) or atleast most of > us are > > and we came as poor people or as religious preachers or as conquerors. > But we > > have taken over the land and now call ourselves Assamese, because > someone, not > > too long ago, decided to call this part of the world as Assam. When did > this > > word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is > confusing, but > > it is well established that his word and this language is not from the > days of > > Mahabharat. > > > > If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat > times ? > > Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now > classed > > as ST and are fighting for survival, not from onslaught of bangladeshis, > as > > .. suggests, but from us !!!. We never ever referred to them > as Assamese, > > but would call them as Naga or Khasi or Bodo or Lalung etc. So much so > that even > > the people who were here before us, like the original Assamese Hindu > people of > > upper Assam and Golaghat (referring to Jabeen and her folks) who later > > converted to Islam after coming into contact wth Azan Peer, are now no > longer > > referred to Assamese by us, the bloody immigrants, but only as Asomiya > Musalman. > > Did anyone ever refer to any of us as Assamese Hindu ? But we, the bloody > > immigrants, always prefix or suffix such terms with others.. Bongali > Hindu is > > another example. > > > > No wonder, many of these people have now left us, others are trying to > get away > > from us and while still others are in the process. It is therefore no > wonder, > > that the only community that wants to get close to us as Assamese(others > want to > > leave us anyway) i.e. the immigrants from present Bangladesh, are > shunned. And > > this in spite of the fact that there is no data on when they came as > immigrants, > > many had in fact come well before independence (as reported by the > Governor > > hujur in his report to the President.. see www.satp.org for the full > report). > > > > The question of immigration is an age old one and there are thousands of > books > > and theories all around. The problem is not of immigrant, Chiranjit, but > of > > perception towards immigrants. It is also a question related to electoral > >
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
>>>that the only community that wants to get close to us as Assamese(others >>>want to leave us anyway) i.e. the immigrants from present Bangladesh, are shunned<<< I have no problem with the fact that some foreigners might consider themselves Assamese. But imagining that they are Assamese does not make them so. If that were possible, half the world would claim American citizenship and the right to immigrate to the US!!! THAT'S WHY THE WHOLE BUSINESS OF IMMIGRATION DO TAKE AN ORDERLY PATH EVERYWHERE. KJD On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur wrote: > The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as > this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person > ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and > engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to > understand. Please read on:- > "Hi All, > > Reading .. after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped up > here > and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I would > like to clarify for . sake that my question of who is an Assamese is > something which each of us need to ask. We are all bloody immigrants ourselves > (a term used now in the Australian election campaign) or atleast most of us > are > and we came as poor people or as religious preachers or as conquerors. But we > have taken over the land and now call ourselves Assamese, because someone, not > too long ago, decided to call this part of the world as Assam. When did this > word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, but > it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days of > Mahabharat. > > If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat times > ? > Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now classed > as ST and are fighting for survival, not from onslaught of bangladeshis, as > .. suggests, but from us !!!. We never ever referred to them as > Assamese, > but would call them as Naga or Khasi or Bodo or Lalung etc. So much so that > even > the people who were here before us, like the original Assamese Hindu people of > upper Assam and Golaghat (referring to Jabeen and her folks) who later > converted to Islam after coming into contact wth Azan Peer, are now no longer > referred to Assamese by us, the bloody immigrants, but only as Asomiya > Musalman. > Did anyone ever refer to any of us as Assamese Hindu ? But we, the bloody > immigrants, always prefix or suffix such terms with others.. Bongali Hindu is > another example. > > No wonder, many of these people have now left us, others are trying to get > away > from us and while still others are in the process. It is therefore no wonder, > that the only community that wants to get close to us as Assamese(others want > to > leave us anyway) i.e. the immigrants from present Bangladesh, are shunned. And > this in spite of the fact that there is no data on when they came as > immigrants, > many had in fact come well before independence (as reported by the Governor > hujur in his report to the President.. see www.satp.org for the full report). > > The question of immigration is an age old one and there are thousands of books > and theories all around. The problem is not of immigrant, Chiranjit, but of > perception towards immigrants. It is also a question related to electoral > politics worldwide. You may like to refer to Samuel Huntington's theory of > Clash > of Civilization. Why for example is Assam, the only state in India to be > subdivided so many times ? Why is Assam the only state in India where our own > "boys" are killing our own people ? And why is Assam, in spite of being a > small > state, the only one which still wants more division, not only of the tribal > areas or the much feared greater Bangladesh, but of the such demands as Upor > Axom and Namoni Axom ? > > Most importantly, ., you seems to be confused of what constitutes as > an > Assamese, as you said it is what one feels deep down...that is a subjective > decision. Are you an Assamese, I ask ?Trace your family history and you may > find > startling truths. Just because the British drew a line across Goalpara in > 1947, > cutting the Koch areas in half, does not necessarily make the residents on the > other side as Bengalis, I think. ../.. > and others > from that belt, may even have some close relatives in West Bengal today.. so > were they Assamese till 15th August 1947 and became Bengalis after that !!! > huh > !!! > > The issue is too large and complex. But we, the people of Assam, need to ask > ourselves some basic question, and not go about opening lungis of other people > and getting a pleasure of seeing the > . of a so called > immigrant. After all, we referred to some at one time as "lengta No
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
When did this word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, but it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days of Mahabharat.If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat times <<< If we take the legitimacy of current nation-states on the basis of centuries of common continuous political rule over the same geographical boundary and inhabited by the same people, then practically no country on the planet meets this criteria. Simply put, shifting nature of political kingdoms and their boundaries over the centuries legitimize virtually no country in its present form. KJD On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur wrote: > The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as > this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person > ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and > engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to > understand. Please read on:- > "Hi All, > > Reading .. after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped up > here > and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I would > like to clarify for . sake that my question of who is an Assamese is > something which each of us need to ask. We are all bloody immigrants ourselves > (a term used now in the Australian election campaign) or atleast most of us > are > and we came as poor people or as religious preachers or as conquerors. But we > have taken over the land and now call ourselves Assamese, because someone, not > too long ago, decided to call this part of the world as Assam. When did this > word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, but > it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days of > Mahabharat. > > If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat times > ? > Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now classed > as ST and are fighting for survival, not from onslaught of bangladeshis, as > .. suggests, but from us !!!. We never ever referred to them as > Assamese, > but would call them as Naga or Khasi or Bodo or Lalung etc. So much so that > even > the people who were here before us, like the original Assamese Hindu people of > upper Assam and Golaghat (referring to Jabeen and her folks) who later > converted to Islam after coming into contact wth Azan Peer, are now no longer > referred to Assamese by us, the bloody immigrants, but only as Asomiya > Musalman. > Did anyone ever refer to any of us as Assamese Hindu ? But we, the bloody > immigrants, always prefix or suffix such terms with others.. Bongali Hindu is > another example. > > No wonder, many of these people have now left us, others are trying to get > away > from us and while still others are in the process. It is therefore no wonder, > that the only community that wants to get close to us as Assamese(others want > to > leave us anyway) i.e. the immigrants from present Bangladesh, are shunned. And > this in spite of the fact that there is no data on when they came as > immigrants, > many had in fact come well before independence (as reported by the Governor > hujur in his report to the President.. see www.satp.org for the full report). > > The question of immigration is an age old one and there are thousands of books > and theories all around. The problem is not of immigrant, Chiranjit, but of > perception towards immigrants. It is also a question related to electoral > politics worldwide. You may like to refer to Samuel Huntington's theory of > Clash > of Civilization. Why for example is Assam, the only state in India to be > subdivided so many times ? Why is Assam the only state in India where our own > "boys" are killing our own people ? And why is Assam, in spite of being a > small > state, the only one which still wants more division, not only of the tribal > areas or the much feared greater Bangladesh, but of the such demands as Upor > Axom and Namoni Axom ? > > Most importantly, ., you seems to be confused of what constitutes as > an > Assamese, as you said it is what one feels deep down...that is a subjective > decision. Are you an Assamese, I ask ?Trace your family history and you may > find > startling truths. Just because the British drew a line across Goalpara in > 1947, > cutting the Koch areas in half, does not necessarily make the residents on the > other side as Bengalis, I think. ../.. > and others > from that belt, may even have some close relatives in West Bengal today.. so > were they Assamese till 15th August 1947 and became Bengalis after that !!! > huh > !!! > > The issue is too large and complex. But we, the people of Assam, need to ask > ourselves some basic question, and not go about opening lungis of other people > and getting a
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
>>> I haven't heard of any mass murder, crimes by Assamese towards the tribal people. The writer seems to harbour a guilty feeling. Can't comment on his or his forefathers' deeds<<< There were at least16 or 17 MLAs elected to the Assam Legislative Assembly FROM THE UNRESERVED CONSTITUENCIES AND ALL OF THEM BELONGED TO THE SCHEDULED TRIBES ( PLAINS).To name a few,Khana Kanta Boro,Padmalochan Boro,Purna Boro,Dambarudhar Brahma,Ganash Boro,Thaneswar Boro,Durga Das Boro,Tejendra Narzary,Kalendra Basumatary,Mohini Basumatary,Kalendra Basumatary,Derhgra Mushahary et al. Therefore,it shows that the members of the Schedules Tribes took active part in the process of decision making on the floor of the house. The legislature is a forum where the elected members ventilate the grievances of the people of the constituencies and they have opportunities to expose the inadequacies/shortcomings of the administration.The members have an opportunity to shape and finalise the policies of the Government. NOW THE QUESTION IS TO WHAT EXTENT THEY HAD PLAYED THE ROLE TOWARDS SOLUTION OF THE PROBLEMS WITH HONESTY,SINCERITY AND EFFECTIVELY. KJD On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Jyotirmoy Sharma wrote: > Not buying it.. Khasi,Garos, Nagas, Mizos never called them Assamese to > begin with. They had their own unique culture, religion and norms. > > "If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat > times ? > Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now > classed as ST and are fighting for survival" - I am not suffering from a > guilty conscience for something I haven't done. On a similar note, the > current generation of Australians cannot be held accountable for what their > great grandfathers did to the Aboriginals. I haven't heard of any mass > murder, crimes by Assamese towards the tribal people. The writer seems to > harbour a guilty feeling. Can't comment on his or his forefathers' deeds. > BTW, an ST is by choice, not forced as claimed by the author. You would be a > fool to want be be classed in the general category while you can enjoy the > benefits of a ST. Aren't the Bodos of in Karbi Anglong demanding an ST > status too ... Who forced them? > The writer should ask a Khasi in Shillong if he wants to be classed in a > general catergory, being so advanced in education, lifestyle compared to the > tribals of Jharkhand, Andhra etc. I would like to know if they would ever > want to come out of the "ST" tag FORCED on them as claimed. > > "... a few people from Bangladesh " ... that's something new. Not only > Assam, but our neighbours are also complaining. Bloody liars they must be. > A nation is bound by timelines. Once a state, country is formed there are > rules to abide by as far as migration, settlement is concerned. Uncontrolled > migration cannot be accepted. > > The people of Mahabharat times - if the author is referring to the tribal > population of Assam( and NE ), they would also be tracing their roots > somewhere else if the timeline is moved back. > JS > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
Not buying it.. Khasi,Garos, Nagas, Mizos never called them Assamese to begin with. They had their own unique culture, religion and norms. I do agree with you.Identity cannot be IMPOSED.It is not some ARTIFICIAL CONSTRUCT that can be willed.It has to be felt and shared.Its rhythms are found in the music we strum to,in the jokes that we erupt at,in the fashion trends that we emulate,in the food we lap up.It is constructed in the mundane business of life.The encounter that has taken place within the people of this region may have transformed many in some ways,but expanding it to a "single" identity is not one of them. Fact is,the "single" category is an ILLUSIVE construct,drawn up by the British as an artifact of convenience to lump the disparate groups.The "Northeast",by all means, is a geographic concept and nothing more. There is a vacuous assumption of commonality among the people of the Northeastern states of India.What exactly does the average Assamese have in common with a Mizo,Naga or Arunachali?Very little.There is nothing that makes one feel kinship with other apart from the small matter of their sitting adjacent to each other.There are few cultural bonds between the various Northeastern states and the region does not share a common language or religious heritage,which can sometimes form the basis of cross national identity. KJD On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Jyotirmoy Sharma wrote: > Not buying it.. Khasi,Garos, Nagas, Mizos never called them Assamese to > begin with. They had their own unique culture, religion and norms. > > "If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat > times ? > Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now > classed as ST and are fighting for survival" - I am not suffering from a > guilty conscience for something I haven't done. On a similar note, the > current generation of Australians cannot be held accountable for what their > great grandfathers did to the Aboriginals. I haven't heard of any mass > murder, crimes by Assamese towards the tribal people. The writer seems to > harbour a guilty feeling. Can't comment on his or his forefathers' deeds. > BTW, an ST is by choice, not forced as claimed by the author. You would be a > fool to want be be classed in the general category while you can enjoy the > benefits of a ST. Aren't the Bodos of in Karbi Anglong demanding an ST > status too ... Who forced them? > The writer should ask a Khasi in Shillong if he wants to be classed in a > general catergory, being so advanced in education, lifestyle compared to the > tribals of Jharkhand, Andhra etc. I would like to know if they would ever > want to come out of the "ST" tag FORCED on them as claimed. > > "... a few people from Bangladesh " ... that's something new. Not only > Assam, but our neighbours are also complaining. Bloody liars they must be. > A nation is bound by timelines. Once a state, country is formed there are > rules to abide by as far as migration, settlement is concerned. Uncontrolled > migration cannot be accepted. > > The people of Mahabharat times - if the author is referring to the tribal > population of Assam( and NE ), they would also be tracing their roots > somewhere else if the timeline is moved back. > JS > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] Politics as a Monoploy business
Currently almost all Indian Newspaper, mostly Assamese, covers 80% political news in the first page, 90% in Editorial page. Is this what Politics is growing as a Monopoly business from Politicians to media persons? Very sad that, you will get daily minimum 2 dowry death news in very brief, in the middle pages, with negligence. Is this what, we Kharkhowas proud, "We do not have dowry system in our society." -Dhruba Jyoti Deka ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form
Yes, Its nice link Baideo ! There are many more these days in Scribed. This is really an interesting site, where one can get Jewels of world literature! Sushanta 2010/8/19 Alpana B. Sarangapani > > > Great link, Sushanta. > I will save it for my little niece to read, enjoy and learn a bit of her > cultural heritage at the same from there, when she grows up. > > Thank you !! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: pragyan.ts...@gmail.com > > Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 21:00:05 +0530 > > To: assam@assamnet.org; xo...@googlegroups.com > > Subject: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form > > > > Let your kids read Complete Ramayana in Comic form > > > > http://www.scribd.com/full/29882404?access_key=key-15boxcvmdkba8yvyxldy > > > > -- > > Sushanta Kar > > সুশান্ত কর > > তিনসুকিয়া, আসাম > > > > আমার ব্লগগুলি: > > http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com > > http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com > > http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com > > আমার সম্পাদিত 'প্রজ্ঞান' > > http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com > > http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now > > > > "স্বাজাত্যের অহমিকার থেকে মুক্তি দানের শিক্ষাই, আজকের দিনের প্রধান > শিক্ষা" > > রবীন্দ্রনাথ > > ___ > > assam mailing list > > assam@assamnet.org > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > -- Sushanta Kar সুশান্ত কর তিনসুকিয়া, আসাম আমার ব্লগগুলি: http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com আমার সম্পাদিত 'প্রজ্ঞান' http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now "স্বাজাত্যের অহমিকার থেকে মুক্তি দানের শিক্ষাই, আজকের দিনের প্রধান শিক্ষা" রবীন্দ্রনাথ ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form
Great link, Sushanta. I will save it for my little niece to read, enjoy and learn a bit of her cultural heritage at the same from there, when she grows up. Thank you !! > From: pragyan.ts...@gmail.com > Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 21:00:05 +0530 > To: assam@assamnet.org; xo...@googlegroups.com > Subject: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form > > Let your kids read Complete Ramayana in Comic form > > http://www.scribd.com/full/29882404?access_key=key-15boxcvmdkba8yvyxldy > > -- > Sushanta Kar > সুশান্ত কর > তিনসুকিয়া, আসাম > > আমার ব্লগগুলি: > http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com > http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com > http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com > আমার সম্পাদিত 'প্রজ্ঞান' > http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com > http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now > > "স্বাজাত্যের অহমিকার থেকে মুক্তি দানের শিক্ষাই, আজকের দিনের প্রধান শিক্ষা" > রবীন্দ্রনাথ > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] China to Attack India: Perfect "Sensational" (Yellow?) Journalism
Wel said Sri Dhruba Jyoti Deka ! Sushanta On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka < dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Mr Priyankan, > > > > It is not copy paste at all. It is writing the dictation. > > > > USA always say like this. They say Pakistan will attack, but no war yet > happened. They say China will attack, but yet not(forget about 1962, USA > were dumbo that time). > > > > But look at USA and their Pantagon, they can't say or predict who, when, > where & how will attack them. :-) > > > > This is diplomatic policy of USA. They don't want remain parts of the world > should get united or remain peacful. > > > > USA always want that the third world countries remain busy with buying > weapons, neglecting the importance for their citizen's interest, regardless > the necessity of those weapon. By this way, third world countries will > always remain third worldf & poor only. This is what USA want. > > > > -Dhruba Jyoti Deka > > > Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 12:44:29 +0530 > > From: priyankan.gosw...@gmail.com > > To: assam@assamnet.org > > Subject: [Assam] China to Attack India: Perfect "Sensational" (Yellow?) > Journalism > > > > Dear All, > > Although the news of a possible Chinese Threat to India is accepted by > both > > Pentagon and Indian Defence Sources, here I am trying to highlight > something > > else. > > > > The headlines in today's *Asomiya Pratidin* is That "China will Attack > India > > in 2012". Even in NE Tv, they are now showing the story again and again!! > > -- > > Links in Pratidin: > > > http://anax1b.pressmart.net/asomiya/AS/AS/2010/08/18/ArticleHtmls/18_08_2010_001_009.shtml?Mode=0 > > > http://anax1b.pressmart.net/asomiya/AS/AS/2010/08/18/ArticleHtmls/18_08_2010_010_004.shtml?Mode=0 > > --- > > Now Check out the following Blog in *Sify.com *by Bharat Verma (Editor, > > Indian Defence Review) published on 2009-07-12 *A Year Earlier * > > > http://sify.com/news/nervous-china-may-attack-india-by-2012-news-features-jhmqlGgeaia.html > > > > *Yes, you will surprised to see that both stories are almost exactly the > > same. A matter of Plain Translation. > > * > > Does our Journalists in Assam (not all) lack basic orginiality and > concept > > that they have to translate an entire English blog into Assamese and > convert > > it into sensational HEADLINES!!! > > > > Such a Shame! > > --- > > Regards > > Priyankan > > ___ > > assam mailing list > > assam@assamnet.org > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > -- Sushanta Kar সুশান্ত কর তিনসুকিয়া, আসাম আমার ব্লগগুলি: http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com আমার সম্পাদিত 'প্রজ্ঞান' http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now "স্বাজাত্যের অহমিকার থেকে মুক্তি দানের শিক্ষাই, আজকের দিনের প্রধান শিক্ষা" রবীন্দ্রনাথ ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] AXX to teach English, Assamese through distance education (The Sentinel, 18.08.2010)
AXX to teach English, Assamese through distance education A Correspondent JORHAT, Aug 17: The Jorhat branch of the Axom Xahitya Xabha (AXX) is taking on new responsibilities by offering master degree courses in Assamese and English literature from September, 2010. The course to be taught at the Radha Kanta Handique Bhavan here will be under the directorate of Distance Education affiliated to Dibrugarh University. The experienced and renowned faculty members would teach the students here. This was stated in a press release issued by AXX general secretary Paramananda Rajbonshi. Rajbonshi stressed on outsiders learning the Assamese language so that it would facilitate research on the language and research and enable translations of masterpieces in Assamese language to other languages in the world. He also revealed that the process of teaching the Assamese language in a scientific way through the internet to non Assamese and to the children of Assamese people living outside Assam was going on in full swing. (The Sentinel,18.08.2010) ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form
Is it Assamnet or Banglanet? Advertising Bangla Unicode texts? :-) > From: pragyan.ts...@gmail.com > Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 21:00:05 +0530 > To: assam@assamnet.org; xo...@googlegroups.com > Subject: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form > > Let your kids read Complete Ramayana in Comic form > > http://www.scribd.com/full/29882404?access_key=key-15boxcvmdkba8yvyxldy > > -- > Sushanta Kar > সুশান্ত কর > তিনসুকিয়া, আসাম > > আমার ব্লগগুলি: > http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com > http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com > http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com > আমার সম্পাদিত 'প্রজ্ঞান' > http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com > http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now > > "স্বাজাত্যের অহমিকার থেকে মুক্তি দানের শিক্ষাই, আজকের দিনের প্রধান শিক্ষা" > রবীন্দ্রনাথ > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] Ramayana in Comic form
Let your kids read Complete Ramayana in Comic form http://www.scribd.com/full/29882404?access_key=key-15boxcvmdkba8yvyxldy -- Sushanta Kar সুশান্ত কর তিনসুকিয়া, আসাম আমার ব্লগগুলি: http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com আমার সম্পাদিত 'প্রজ্ঞান' http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now "স্বাজাত্যের অহমিকার থেকে মুক্তি দানের শিক্ষাই, আজকের দিনের প্রধান শিক্ষা" রবীন্দ্রনাথ ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] About Argumentum Ad Hominem
Yes.I would like to see. K On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > O"-K > > No, that is not an ad-hominem argument. It is a gratuitous insult, > unbecoming of a civil discussion. > > But if you make an argument or ask a question as a part of an argument that > runs counter to my beliefs or I just don't like > , instead of offering a counter-argument or a rebuttal and answering your > question I resort to calling you a, say, terrorist > sympathizer or a Muslim hater or an anti-Indian or some such epithet or > innuendo in an attempt to weasel out of my > predicament, that would be an 'argumentum ad-hominem'. > > If I were confronted with something I could not explain or rebut, resorting > to obfuscation, changing of the subject or > questioning your character or some such devious tactics, would be resorting > to argumentum ad-hominem > > But if I replied defending myself but added the insult like a**-hole as a > parting shot, that would not constitute a-a-h. > > Would you REALLY like to see an assamnet example :-)? I must caution you > against pushing it :-) :-). > > So-K > > > > On Aug 17, 2010, at 10:15 PM, kamal deka wrote: > >> SO KO, >> >> Since you have started this grandiloquent philosophical stuff,could >> you please trot out a few examples in order to put things in clear >> perspective.Please feel free to cite some samples of discussion that >> had occurred in this Net. >> Let me help you out by giving an example: >> >> A: "All rodents are mammals, but a weasel isn't a rodent, so it can't >> be a mammal." >> B: "This does not logically follow. And you're an asshole." >> >> Now,is B's reply an ad hominem? >> >> KJD >> >> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:53 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: >>> O'-K, >>> >>> Argumentum ad hominem is the logical fallacy of attempting to undermine a > speaker's argument by attacking the speaker instead of addressing the > argument. >>> >>> >>> >>> *** Look up "--ad-hominem" in Google. In Wiki you will find the explanation >>> as shown above. >>> >>> Is it a trick, verbal or otherwise? You decide. >>> >>> It does not matter what it is called. Often we refer to it as attacking the >>> messenger, a more benign form of the same thing. >>> But the important point is that in the world of logical thinking, it is >>> does not hold a respectable place. >>> >>> So-K >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Aug 17, 2010, at 8:02 PM, kamal deka wrote: >>> RS, What the hell is AAH ( ad hominiem )? Something to eat or to wear? Or is it just a nonce word ( words invented for particular occassion) or a stunt word ( word that display a neat verbal trick but are not useful for everyday conversation) :-) Merely pulling someone's legs. But again,we should keep in mind that what goes around,comes around or simply stated SOW THE WIND REAP THE WHIRLWIND!!! KJD On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > Hehehe! > > Argumentum ad hominem? Some examples might be nice. > > I don't think I ever come across that disease around Texas. Have you KJD? > > Perhaps, it is raging in other parts (not to be named :-)). I think, it is > time for the good Daktor Haatimuria to descent from his perch in the > Ozarks > (I think), and find a cure all for the incorrigible kharkhowas. > > I have heard that is is closely related to the FIM disease > (Foot-in-mouth) & > the other famous one 'argumentum ad infinitum' disease, which seems to > affect a number of us - I think have a rare case of that affliction :-) > :-) > > --Ram > > > > On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 10:18 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >> >> Often, actually way to often, we see the phenomenon of " Argumentum ad >> hominem" in our discussions and debates. Since it is so frequent, one >> has >> to conclude that our friends, who, rightfully, take pride in their >> knowledge of things, perhaps have nort come across this particular >> phenomenon. So I thought it is as good a time as any, to bt ring it to >> their >> attention: >> >> >> Argumentum ad hominem is the logical fallacy of attempting to undermine a >> speaker's argument by attacking the speaker instead of addressing the >> argument. >> >> >> cm >> ___ >> assam mailing list >> assam@assamnet.org >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> assam mailing list >>> assam
Re: [Assam] China to Attack India: Perfect "Sensational" (Yellow?) Journalism
Mr Priyankan, It is not copy paste at all. It is writing the dictation. USA always say like this. They say Pakistan will attack, but no war yet happened. They say China will attack, but yet not(forget about 1962, USA were dumbo that time). But look at USA and their Pantagon, they can't say or predict who, when, where & how will attack them. :-) This is diplomatic policy of USA. They don't want remain parts of the world should get united or remain peacful. USA always want that the third world countries remain busy with buying weapons, neglecting the importance for their citizen's interest, regardless the necessity of those weapon. By this way, third world countries will always remain third worldf & poor only. This is what USA want. -Dhruba Jyoti Deka > Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 12:44:29 +0530 > From: priyankan.gosw...@gmail.com > To: assam@assamnet.org > Subject: [Assam] China to Attack India: Perfect "Sensational" (Yellow?) > Journalism > > Dear All, > Although the news of a possible Chinese Threat to India is accepted by both > Pentagon and Indian Defence Sources, here I am trying to highlight something > else. > > The headlines in today's *Asomiya Pratidin* is That "China will Attack India > in 2012". Even in NE Tv, they are now showing the story again and again!! > -- > Links in Pratidin: > http://anax1b.pressmart.net/asomiya/AS/AS/2010/08/18/ArticleHtmls/18_08_2010_001_009.shtml?Mode=0 > http://anax1b.pressmart.net/asomiya/AS/AS/2010/08/18/ArticleHtmls/18_08_2010_010_004.shtml?Mode=0 > --- > Now Check out the following Blog in *Sify.com *by Bharat Verma (Editor, > Indian Defence Review) published on 2009-07-12 *A Year Earlier * > http://sify.com/news/nervous-china-may-attack-india-by-2012-news-features-jhmqlGgeaia.html > > *Yes, you will surprised to see that both stories are almost exactly the > same. A matter of Plain Translation. > * > Does our Journalists in Assam (not all) lack basic orginiality and concept > that they have to translate an entire English blog into Assamese and convert > it into sensational HEADLINES!!! > > Such a Shame! > --- > Regards > Priyankan > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] China to Attack India: Perfect "Sensational" (Yellow?) Journalism
This time Nehru is not here. But Sonia is here. Who will say -> "My heart goes with people of Assam"? :-) > From: cmaha...@gmail.com > Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 08:38:44 -0500 > To: assam@assamnet.org > Subject: Re: [Assam] China to Attack India: Perfect "Sensational" (Yellow?) > Journalism > > Oh my gosh! > > At this rate, we shall forever remain kharkhowas and markhowas :-). > > > > > > > On Aug 18, 2010, at 2:14 AM, priyankan goswami wrote: > > > Dear All, > > Although the news of a possible Chinese Threat to India is accepted by both > > Pentagon and Indian Defence Sources, here I am trying to highlight something > > else. > > > > The headlines in today's *Asomiya Pratidin* is That "China will Attack India > > in 2012". Even in NE Tv, they are now showing the story again and again!! > > -- > > Links in Pratidin: > > http://anax1b.pressmart.net/asomiya/AS/AS/2010/08/18/ArticleHtmls/18_08_2010_001_009.shtml?Mode=0 > > http://anax1b.pressmart.net/asomiya/AS/AS/2010/08/18/ArticleHtmls/18_08_2010_010_004.shtml?Mode=0 > > --- > > Now Check out the following Blog in *Sify.com *by Bharat Verma (Editor, > > Indian Defence Review) published on 2009-07-12 *A Year Earlier * > > http://sify.com/news/nervous-china-may-attack-india-by-2012-news-features-jhmqlGgeaia.html > > > > *Yes, you will surprised to see that both stories are almost exactly the > > same. A matter of Plain Translation. > > * > > Does our Journalists in Assam (not all) lack basic orginiality and concept > > that they have to translate an entire English blog into Assamese and convert > > it into sensational HEADLINES!!! > > > > Such a Shame! > > --- > > Regards > > Priyankan > > ___ > > assam mailing list > > assam@assamnet.org > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] China to Attack India: Perfect "Sensational" (Yellow?) Journalism
Oh my gosh! At this rate, we shall forever remain kharkhowas and markhowas :-). On Aug 18, 2010, at 2:14 AM, priyankan goswami wrote: > Dear All, > Although the news of a possible Chinese Threat to India is accepted by both > Pentagon and Indian Defence Sources, here I am trying to highlight something > else. > > The headlines in today's *Asomiya Pratidin* is That "China will Attack India > in 2012". Even in NE Tv, they are now showing the story again and again!! > -- > Links in Pratidin: > http://anax1b.pressmart.net/asomiya/AS/AS/2010/08/18/ArticleHtmls/18_08_2010_001_009.shtml?Mode=0 > http://anax1b.pressmart.net/asomiya/AS/AS/2010/08/18/ArticleHtmls/18_08_2010_010_004.shtml?Mode=0 > --- > Now Check out the following Blog in *Sify.com *by Bharat Verma (Editor, > Indian Defence Review) published on 2009-07-12 *A Year Earlier * > http://sify.com/news/nervous-china-may-attack-india-by-2012-news-features-jhmqlGgeaia.html > > *Yes, you will surprised to see that both stories are almost exactly the > same. A matter of Plain Translation. > * > Does our Journalists in Assam (not all) lack basic orginiality and concept > that they have to translate an entire English blog into Assamese and convert > it into sensational HEADLINES!!! > > Such a Shame! > --- > Regards > Priyankan > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] About Argumentum Ad Hominem
O"-K No, that is not an ad-hominem argument. It is a gratuitous insult, unbecoming of a civil discussion. But if you make an argument or ask a question as a part of an argument that runs counter to my beliefs or I just don't like , instead of offering a counter-argument or a rebuttal and answering your question I resort to calling you a, say, terrorist sympathizer or a Muslim hater or an anti-Indian or some such epithet or innuendo in an attempt to weasel out of my predicament, that would be an 'argumentum ad-hominem'. If I were confronted with something I could not explain or rebut, resorting to obfuscation, changing of the subject or questioning your character or some such devious tactics, would be resorting to argumentum ad-hominem But if I replied defending myself but added the insult like a**-hole as a parting shot, that would not constitute a-a-h. Would you REALLY like to see an assamnet example :-)? I must caution you against pushing it :-) :-). So-K On Aug 17, 2010, at 10:15 PM, kamal deka wrote: > SO KO, > > Since you have started this grandiloquent philosophical stuff,could > you please trot out a few examples in order to put things in clear > perspective.Please feel free to cite some samples of discussion that > had occurred in this Net. > Let me help you out by giving an example: > > A: "All rodents are mammals, but a weasel isn't a rodent, so it can't > be a mammal." > B: "This does not logically follow. And you're an asshole." > > Now,is B's reply an ad hominem? > > KJD > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:53 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: >> O'-K, >> >> >>> Argumentum ad hominem is the logical fallacy of attempting to undermine a speaker's argument by attacking the speaker instead of addressing the argument. >> >> >> >> *** Look up "--ad-hominem" in Google. In Wiki you will find the explanation >> as shown above. >> >> Is it a trick, verbal or otherwise? You decide. >> >> It does not matter what it is called. Often we refer to it as attacking the >> messenger, a more benign form of the same thing. >> But the important point is that in the world of logical thinking, it is does >> not hold a respectable place. >> >> So-K >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Aug 17, 2010, at 8:02 PM, kamal deka wrote: >> >>> RS, >>> What the hell is AAH ( ad hominiem )? Something to eat or to wear? Or >>> is it just a nonce word ( words invented for particular occassion) or >>> a stunt word ( word that display a neat verbal trick but are not >>> useful for everyday conversation) :-) Merely pulling someone's legs. >>> But again,we should keep in mind that what goes around,comes around or >>> simply stated SOW THE WIND REAP THE WHIRLWIND!!! >>> KJD >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Hehehe! Argumentum ad hominem? Some examples might be nice. I don't think I ever come across that disease around Texas. Have you KJD? Perhaps, it is raging in other parts (not to be named :-)). I think, it is time for the good Daktor Haatimuria to descent from his perch in the Ozarks (I think), and find a cure all for the incorrigible kharkhowas. I have heard that is is closely related to the FIM disease (Foot-in-mouth) & the other famous one 'argumentum ad infinitum' disease, which seems to affect a number of us - I think have a rare case of that affliction :-) :-) --Ram On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 10:18 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > > Often, actually way to often, we see the phenomenon of " Argumentum ad > hominem" in our discussions and debates. Since it is so frequent, one has > to conclude that our friends, who, rightfully, take pride in their > knowledge of things, perhaps have nort come across this particular > phenomenon. So I thought it is as good a time as any, to bt ring it to > their > attention: > > > Argumentum ad hominem is the logical fallacy of attempting to undermine a > speaker's argument by attacking the speaker instead of addressing the > argument. > > > cm > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>> >>> ___ >>> assam mailing list >>> assam@assamnet.org >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> ___ >> assam mailing list >> assam@assamnet.org >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
Not buying it.. Khasi,Garos, Nagas, Mizos never called them Assamese to begin with. They had their own unique culture, religion and norms. "If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat times ? Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now classed as ST and are fighting for survival" - I am not suffering from a guilty conscience for something I haven't done. On a similar note, the current generation of Australians cannot be held accountable for what their great grandfathers did to the Aboriginals. I haven't heard of any mass murder, crimes by Assamese towards the tribal people. The writer seems to harbour a guilty feeling. Can't comment on his or his forefathers' deeds. BTW, an ST is by choice, not forced as claimed by the author. You would be a fool to want be be classed in the general category while you can enjoy the benefits of a ST. Aren't the Bodos of in Karbi Anglong demanding an ST status too ... Who forced them? The writer should ask a Khasi in Shillong if he wants to be classed in a general catergory, being so advanced in education, lifestyle compared to the tribals of Jharkhand, Andhra etc. I would like to know if they would ever want to come out of the "ST" tag FORCED on them as claimed. "... a few people from Bangladesh " ... that's something new. Not only Assam, but our neighbours are also complaining. Bloody liars they must be. A nation is bound by timelines. Once a state, country is formed there are rules to abide by as far as migration, settlement is concerned. Uncontrolled migration cannot be accepted. The people of Mahabharat times - if the author is referring to the tribal population of Assam( and NE ), they would also be tracing their roots somewhere else if the timeline is moved back. JS ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] China to Attack India: Perfect "Sensational" (Yellow?) Journalism
Dear All, Although the news of a possible Chinese Threat to India is accepted by both Pentagon and Indian Defence Sources, here I am trying to highlight something else. The headlines in today's *Asomiya Pratidin* is That "China will Attack India in 2012". Even in NE Tv, they are now showing the story again and again!! -- Links in Pratidin: http://anax1b.pressmart.net/asomiya/AS/AS/2010/08/18/ArticleHtmls/18_08_2010_001_009.shtml?Mode=0 http://anax1b.pressmart.net/asomiya/AS/AS/2010/08/18/ArticleHtmls/18_08_2010_010_004.shtml?Mode=0 --- Now Check out the following Blog in *Sify.com *by Bharat Verma (Editor, Indian Defence Review) published on 2009-07-12 *A Year Earlier * http://sify.com/news/nervous-china-may-attack-india-by-2012-news-features-jhmqlGgeaia.html *Yes, you will surprised to see that both stories are almost exactly the same. A matter of Plain Translation. * Does our Journalists in Assam (not all) lack basic orginiality and concept that they have to translate an entire English blog into Assamese and convert it into sensational HEADLINES!!! Such a Shame! --- Regards Priyankan ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
