Re: [backstage] Open Flash
Thanks for Aral interview Ian. Very interesting and much appreciated over here! On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 11:08 PM, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Finally I got a chance to put up a video of me interviewing Aral Balkan about Open Flash. Enjoy, http://blip.tv/file/897470/ - part 1 http://blip.tv/file/897486 - part 2 Lots more here - http://blip.tv/posts/?topic_name=xtech2008 Ian Forrester This e-mail is: [x] private; [] ask first; [] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage Room 1044, BBC Manchester BH, Oxford Road, M60 1SJ email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: +44 (0)2080083965 mob: +44 (0)7711913293 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ST Sent: 06 May 2008 16:21 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Open Flash Quoting Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dave Crossland wrote: I look forward to the day when the BBC stops requiring proprietary software and stops imposing DRM :-) And on that day the devil will skate to work! (Can't remember which programme I heard that quote on). The BBC will pick proprietary solutions even if they are technically inferior to the open standards alternatives, just look at Kontiki, Bittorrent would have worked far better, at least most clients support some level of user controllable throttling, many even support scheduling. Andy Kontiki may be inferior in technological terms, but would be vastly superior in terms of a Media Lawyer never having seen its name associated with intellectual property theft. -- ST [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Open Flash
Finally I got a chance to put up a video of me interviewing Aral Balkan about Open Flash. Enjoy, http://blip.tv/file/897470/ - part 1 http://blip.tv/file/897486 - part 2 Lots more here - http://blip.tv/posts/?topic_name=xtech2008 Ian Forrester This e-mail is: [x] private; [] ask first; [] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage Room 1044, BBC Manchester BH, Oxford Road, M60 1SJ email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: +44 (0)2080083965 mob: +44 (0)7711913293 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ST Sent: 06 May 2008 16:21 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Open Flash Quoting Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dave Crossland wrote: I look forward to the day when the BBC stops requiring proprietary software and stops imposing DRM :-) And on that day the devil will skate to work! (Can't remember which programme I heard that quote on). The BBC will pick proprietary solutions even if they are technically inferior to the open standards alternatives, just look at Kontiki, Bittorrent would have worked far better, at least most clients support some level of user controllable throttling, many even support scheduling. Andy Kontiki may be inferior in technological terms, but would be vastly superior in terms of a Media Lawyer never having seen its name associated with intellectual property theft. -- ST [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Open Flash
2008/5/6 ST [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Kontiki may be inferior in technological terms, but would be vastly superior in terms of a Media Lawyer never having seen its name associated with intellectual property theft. There is no such thing as intellectual property theft, and that phrase is so confusing that it is meaningless. I guess you are referring to copyright infringement, and not patent or trademark infringement or breaking contracts or leaking trade secrets. Please try to be specific :-) -- Regards, Dave I support www.gnuherds.org - democratic free software jobs - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Open Flash
Dave Crossland wrote: I look forward to the day when the BBC stops requiring proprietary software and stops imposing DRM :-) And on that day the devil will skate to work! (Can't remember which programme I heard that quote on). The BBC will pick proprietary solutions even if they are technically inferior to the open standards alternatives, just look at Kontiki, Bittorrent would have worked far better, at least most clients support some level of user controllable throttling, many even support scheduling. Andy - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Open Flash
Quoting Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dave Crossland wrote: I look forward to the day when the BBC stops requiring proprietary software and stops imposing DRM :-) And on that day the devil will skate to work! (Can't remember which programme I heard that quote on). The BBC will pick proprietary solutions even if they are technically inferior to the open standards alternatives, just look at Kontiki, Bittorrent would have worked far better, at least most clients support some level of user controllable throttling, many even support scheduling. Andy Kontiki may be inferior in technological terms, but would be vastly superior in terms of a Media Lawyer never having seen its name associated with intellectual property theft. -- ST [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Open Flash
2008/5/5 Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2008/5/4 Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED]: just stick a TTF on a web server and add the @font-face stanza to your CSS file. Do I still have to generate PNG versions for Firefox though? Yes, Firefox 3 has delayed work on CSS3, but there are a couple of Moz developers implementing it so it ought to be done by the end of the year. In the mean time, you'll have to use a WebKit based browser (or a proprietary one) -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Open Flash
2008/5/3 Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2008/5/3 Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This is the most positive thing that I have heard in ages... Microsoft exec going from being evil Borg drone to just plain incompetent. I know your position about the BBC executives, could you fill us in a little with some analysis of the Microsoft situation? Are they nearing their IBM moment? They are trying to submit a DRM format for fonts to the W3C, initially to be a part of CSS3 but that was rejected so now its as its own standard. http://www.w3.org/Submission/2008/SUBM-EOT-20080305/ Oh, the EOT thing all over again? http://www.w3.org/Submission/2008/SUBM-EOT-20080305/ Perhaps this is so bonkers that its a first sign of the IBM moment :-) Finger crossed. I remember the IBM moment, I was working for BTAT (which became BT Syntegra) and we took over an IBM systems house just after it happened. There were many, many sad faces as we had the massive mainframe out of the room that occupied almost all of the ground floor and replaced it with a small-fridge-sized Novell server and a slightly larger Sequent. The room was piled full of useless 3270 terminals and their cluster controllers for quite a while. As they took their redundancy cheques, the leavers kept sobbing but they said no-one ever got fired for buying IBM... Opera, PrinceXML and Safari support TrueType fonts via @font-face already - backstage developers ought to play with this important aspect of CSS3 :-) Can you? I've been using those bloody EOT fonts and their awful WEFT generator. http://www.microsoft.com/typography/web/embedding/weft3/ -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] Open Flash
2008/5/4 Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2008/5/3 Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2008/5/3 Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: As they took their redundancy cheques, the leavers kept sobbing but they said no-one ever got fired for buying IBM... Perhaps the recession will make businesses who pay too much for software licenses turn to free software solutions :-) Opera, PrinceXML and Safari support TrueType fonts via @font-face already - backstage developers ought to play with this important aspect of CSS3 :-) Can you? You can because CSS3 doesn't mandate a font file format, and those 3 support plain TrueType fonts (and even ignore the DRM bits in TrueType - as does Microsoft Silverlight ;-) so you can just stick a TTF on a web server and add the @font-face stanza to your CSS file. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Open Flash
2008/5/3 Dan Brickley [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dave Crossland wrote: Adobe's dominance in this area of computing is being challenged in two ways - by Microsoft (Silverlight) and GNU (Gnash) - so they are taking evasive action to try and maintain their dominance. Does Gnash really challenge Adobe? Any more than Wine, Samba, dotgnu or Mono seriously challenge Microsoft/Windows dominance? I'm pretty skeptical. OK that's over polite. I think you're mistaken. Do you agree that overall, free software seriously challenges proprietary software? Rather it reinforces a classic argument but it's an open standard! the spec is (now) out there, ... and look ... Gnash ... there are multiple implementations, even opensource ones. On top of that, things are set up for an equally classic you've tried the rest now try the best argument. (These seem to be two parts of a single argument, with the first implying the second. I'm glad you've called out this second part as explicit :-) But things are always subject to the you've tried the subjugating, now try the free argument :-) Proprietary software that use data in an open standard don't subjugate people as much as they usually do, because making independent implementations isn't as hard as it could be. Although proprietary implementations of open standards, such as web browsers, are often the most complete, interoperable, reliable, fast, etc, but because they subjugate people at all, they ought to be boycotted. If you've committed to Flash, best to use the real thing eh? Users have a choice now: they can get an implementation from the leaders or from the followers. (not my view but a natural spin on things) This is obviously a false dichotomy and I'm glad to hear its not your view :-) I see vastly more pressure on Adobe from Silverlight, and from the return of HTML/.js post-Ajax. I totally agree that there are multiple challenges to Adobe's dominance in this area, and I omitted to mention the challenge Google is a good mascot for. As W3C explores addition of video and more to HTML, the special benefit of embedding these alien objects in Web pages begins to shrink. Gnash is - don't get me wrong - a great project. But this isn't some David/Goliath triumph. What evidence do you see pointing to Gnash threatening Adobe? Adobe's threats to Gnash developers. Speak to the Open Media Now Foundation about that privately :-) -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Open Flash
2008/5/4 Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2008/5/4 Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2008/5/3 Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2008/5/3 Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: As they took their redundancy cheques, the leavers kept sobbing but they said no-one ever got fired for buying IBM... Perhaps the recession will make businesses who pay too much for software licenses turn to free software solutions :-) Opera, PrinceXML and Safari support TrueType fonts via @font-face already - backstage developers ought to play with this important aspect of CSS3 :-) Can you? You can because CSS3 doesn't mandate a font file format, and those 3 support plain TrueType fonts (and even ignore the DRM bits in TrueType - as does Microsoft Silverlight ;-) so you can just stick a TTF on a web server and add the @font-face stanza to your CSS file. Do I still have to generate PNG versions for Firefox though? -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] Open Flash
2008/5/3 Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This is the most positive thing that I have heard in ages... Microsoft exec going from being evil Borg drone to just plain incompetent. I know your position about the BBC executives, could you fill us in a little with some analysis of the Microsoft situation? Are they nearing their IBM moment? They are trying to submit a DRM format for fonts to the W3C, initially to be a part of CSS3 but that was rejected so now its as its own standard. http://www.w3.org/Submission/2008/SUBM-EOT-20080305/ Perhaps this is so bonkers that its a first sign of the IBM moment :-) Opera, PrinceXML and Safari support TrueType fonts via @font-face already - backstage developers ought to play with this important aspect of CSS3 :-) -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Open Flash
Dave Crossland wrote: 2008/5/2 Tim Dobson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: simon wrote: Adobe is removing restrictions on the use of the SWF and FLV/F4V specifications says Aral Balkan: http://aralbalkan.com/1332 Interesting, I thought. I'll be interested to get Dave Crossland's perspective on this. Adobe's dominance in this area of computing is being challenged in two ways - by Microsoft (Silverlight) and GNU (Gnash) - so they are taking evasive action to try and maintain their dominance. Does Gnash really challenge Adobe? Any more than Wine, Samba, dotgnu or Mono seriously challenge Microsoft/Windows dominance? I'm pretty skeptical. OK that's over polite. I think you're mistaken. Rather it reinforces a classic argument but it's an open standard! the spec is (now) out there, ... and look ... Gnash ... there are multiple implementations, even opensource ones. On top of that, things are set up for an equally classic you've tried the rest now try the best argument. If you've committed to Flash, best to use the real thing eh? Users have a choice now: they can get an implementation from the leaders or from the followers. (not my view but a natural spin on things) I see vastly more pressure on Adobe from Silverlight, and from the return of HTML/.js post-Ajax. As W3C explores addition of video and more to HTML, the special benefit of embedding these alien objects in Web pages begins to shrink. Gnash is - don't get me wrong - a great project. But this isn't some David/Goliath triumph. What evidence do you see pointing to Gnash threatening Adobe? cheers, Dan -- http://danbri.org/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Open Flash
Dan Brickley wrote: On top of that, things are set up for an equally classic you've tried the rest now try the best argument. If you've committed to Flash, best to use the real thing eh? Users have a choice now: they can get an implementation from the leaders or from the followers. (not my view but a natural spin on things) I agree with most of your points, but this one is only valid given a couple of presuppositions: namely that Adobe makes its own Flash player available for the platform you're using, and that the platform you're using supports user installation of software. The less your platform looks like a regular PC, the less valid these assumptions are likely to be (for now). S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Open Flash
2008/5/2 Tim Dobson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: simon wrote: Adobe is removing restrictions on the use of the SWF and FLV/F4V specifications says Aral Balkan: http://aralbalkan.com/1332 Interesting, I thought. I'll be interested to get Dave Crossland's perspective on this. Adobe's dominance in this area of computing is being challenged in two ways - by Microsoft (Silverlight) and GNU (Gnash) - so they are taking evasive action to try and maintain their dominance. Their move will evade the challenge that Microsoft presents, but it appears to add momentum to the challenge that Gnash presents. I was in Redmond a few weeks ago, and was pleasantly surprised to find that many important Microsoft executives are totally misunderstanding basic aspects of the software freedom movement; they are no better than the BBC executives who are routinely criticized on this list. I expect that Adobe executives are equally clueless. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Open Flash
no better than the BBC executives who are routinely criticized on this list. blimey! stop damning us with faint praise Dave.
Re: [backstage] Open Flash
2008/5/2 Jeremy Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED]: no better than the BBC executives who are routinely criticized on this list. blimey! stop damning us with faint praise Dave. I look forward to the day when the BBC stops requiring proprietary software and stops imposing DRM :-) Until then, the BBC executives who allow these activities to continue will continue to be criticized on this list and elsewhere. Sorry if that was unclear. -- Regards, Dave Personal opinion only. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Open Flash
2008/5/2 Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2008/5/2 Tim Dobson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: simon wrote: Adobe is removing restrictions on the use of the SWF and FLV/F4V specifications says Aral Balkan: http://aralbalkan.com/1332 Interesting, I thought. I'll be interested to get Dave Crossland's perspective on this. Adobe's dominance in this area of computing is being challenged in two ways - by Microsoft (Silverlight) and GNU (Gnash) - so they are taking evasive action to try and maintain their dominance. Their move will evade the challenge that Microsoft presents, but it appears to add momentum to the challenge that Gnash presents. I was in Redmond a few weeks ago, and was pleasantly surprised to find that many important Microsoft executives are totally misunderstanding basic aspects of the software freedom movement; they are no better than the BBC executives who are routinely criticized on this list. I expect that Adobe executives are equally clueless. This is the most positive thing that I have heard in ages... Microsoft exec going from being evil Borg drone to just plain incompetent. I know your position about the BBC executives, could you fill us in a little with some analysis of the Microsoft situation? Are they nearing their IBM moment? -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
[backstage] Open Flash
Adobe is removing restrictions on the use of the SWF and FLV/F4V specifications says Aral Balkan: http://aralbalkan.com/1332 Interesting, I thought.
Re: [backstage] Open Flash
If this is true it will 'put one up' Microsoft's Silverlight, won't it? On 01/05/2008, simon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adobe is removing restrictions on the use of the SWF and FLV/F4V specifications says Aral Balkan: http://aralbalkan.com/1332 Interesting, I thought. -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] Open Flash
simon wrote: Adobe is removing restrictions on the use of the SWF and FLV/F4V specifications says Aral Balkan: http://aralbalkan.com/1332 Interesting, I thought. I'll be interested to get Dave Crossland's perspective on this. However the reasons for making the specifications restriction free are easy to understand. I haven't looked at it really yet, and I suspect that their motives are not clear by these actions... ...however, I may be misinterpreting a shift in direction for Adobe. I hope I am. -- www.tdobson.net If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Open Flash
http://www.betanews.com/article/Adobe_looks_to_push_Flash_through_Open_Screen_Project/1209654493 *Adobe said Thursday it is looking to provide developers with a consistent runtime environment across multiple platforms, which allows for simpler and quicker development.* Adobe has lined up an impressive list of supporters to back the project, including ARM, Cisco, Intel, LG, Motorola, Qualcomm, Toshiba, and Verizon Wireless, among others. It has also gotten the blessing of several content providers including the *BBC*, MTV, and NBC. 2008/5/2 Tim Dobson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: simon wrote: Adobe is removing restrictions on the use of the SWF and FLV/F4V specifications says Aral Balkan: http://aralbalkan.com/1332 Interesting, I thought. I'll be interested to get Dave Crossland's perspective on this. However the reasons for making the specifications restriction free are easy to understand. I haven't looked at it really yet, and I suspect that their motives are not clear by these actions... ...however, I may be misinterpreting a shift in direction for Adobe. I hope I am. -- www.tdobson.net If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
