Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-04 Thread JJZolx

andyg;454741 Wrote: 
 Right now if you disable say, the Napster plugin, and you have Napster
 enabled as an app, it will not be returned in the menu from SbS.  But it
 would still be returned by SN, so I guess it would always use SN in this
 case, yes.

So how would you actually get to Napster when connected to SbS if it's
not in the menus?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-04 Thread Andy Grundman

On Sep 4, 2009, at 12:08 PM, JJZolx wrote:


 andyg;454741 Wrote:
 Right now if you disable say, the Napster plugin, and you have  
 Napster
 enabled as an app, it will not be returned in the menu from SbS.   
 But it
 would still be returned by SN, so I guess it would always use SN in  
 this
 case, yes.

 So how would you actually get to Napster when connected to SbS if it's
 not in the menus?

If you've disabled the plugin, you probably don't want to get there  
anyway.  This seems like an unlikely case to really worry too much  
about.  I think you can still get to it via SN though.
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-04 Thread JJZolx

andyg;455048 Wrote: 
 If you've disabled the plugin, you probably don't want to get there
 anyway.  This seems like an unlikely case to really worry too much  
 about.  I think you can still get to it via SN though.

I don't think it's at all unlikely.  A lot of people disable any
plugins that they don't use to minimize the gargantuan memory footprint
of SbS.  If they later want to try out something like Napster and
install it from SN it won't appear in their menus.

What I'm suggesting is that it should still be placed into the menus,
but when selected prompt for a swtich to the mysb.com server.  There's
no reason to disable it.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-04 Thread Andy Grundman

On Sep 4, 2009, at 12:19 PM, JJZolx wrote:


 andyg;455048 Wrote:
 If you've disabled the plugin, you probably don't want to get there
 anyway.  This seems like an unlikely case to really worry too much
 about.  I think you can still get to it via SN though.

 I don't think it's at all unlikely.  A lot of people disable any
 plugins that they don't use to minimize the gargantuan memory  
 footprint
 of SbS.  If they later want to try out something like Napster and
 install it from SN it won't appear in their menus.

 What I'm suggesting is that it should still be placed into the menus,
 but when selected prompt for a swtich to the mysb.com server.  There's
 no reason to disable it.

This might already work but I haven't tried it.  Let me know after you  
have tested it, and file a bug if it doesn't work.
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-04 Thread JJZolx

andyg;455053 Wrote: 
 This might already work but I haven't tried it.  Let me know after you
 have tested it, and file a bug if it doesn't work.

Here's what I see:

- Napster plugin is disabled on local SC
- Napster was installed from test.sn.com and 'Display on home menu
selected' for SB Touch.

1. Napster didn't appear on Touch's Home menu until I rebooted the
Touch.

2. Napster does appear under My Apps.

3. When selected under My Apps, I see a screen about being subscribed
under the 30 day trial, but nothing about switching to mysqueezebox.com
server.  If I 'Continue to Napster', I can browse Napster content, but
when I try to play I get a blank NP screen showing the title, no
artwork, and no audio output.

4. When selected from the Home menu, I get the 'switch library' screen
and can switch to mysb.com.  Then I get the screen about the trial
account.  Navigation and playing work as expected.

If I remove the menu selection from the Home menu at test.sn.com (again
requiring a reboot to take effect) and try again from My Apps, I get the
same behavior as before in #3 - it doesn't offer to switch to SN and
can't play audio.  So it seems I get the behavior you expected, but only
when it's on the Home menu.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-04 Thread Andy Grundman

On Sep 4, 2009, at 2:50 PM, JJZolx wrote:

 If I remove the menu selection from the Home menu at test.sn.com  
 (again
 requiring a reboot to take effect) and try again from My Apps, I get  
 the
 same behavior as before in #3 - it doesn't offer to switch to SN and
 can't play audio.  So it seems I get the behavior you expected, but  
 only
 when it's on the Home menu.

Thanks for testing, I'll file a bug.

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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-04 Thread Mnyb

Hi is there any changes implemented ? I've noticed someting yesterday.

I now got 2 last fm icons on my homescreen again in 7.4r7397.

I had that condition for a while before but now i have:

Last.fm Radio
LASTFM_ACCOUNT

The Last.fm Radio Icon wants to switch me to mysqueezebox.com ?

Should I continue to bug you about it in my Last-FM home menu bug ?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-03 Thread Triode

In the future when we have 3rd party applets/plugin support we need to
think about versioning for compatibility with the host version and also
for different versions of a specific applet/plugin and hence upgrades
etc - its not an issue when all the code is actually already there and
tied to the application code ;)

I do like the idea of being able to enable an app for all players as
this will simplify the case of plugin installation for the server as
there are cases where the per player model simply doesn't work.  So I
see this as progress to help this..


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-03 Thread andyg

I've rolled out the changes I talked about in my initial post.  Please
test and let me know if you find any problems.

Notes:
App Gallery - All Apps only shows apps that are not installed.  This
may be confusing to some, not sure...
The UI on the new Player Settings tab is not final, I just did a quick
prototype and Michael will surely improve it tomorrow.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-03 Thread JJZolx

Does a player pick up these settings if it never connects with SN?  Are
they pushed through the local server?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-03 Thread andyg

Yes.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-03 Thread JJZolx

This is definitely a nicer way of doing things.

When you install an app, I think you should be taken directly to the
'Configure' page.  Ideally with some type of message saying that you've
succesfully installed the app, as many of the 'install' pages in 'App
Gallery' look the same as the 'configure' pages in 'My Apps'.

Any chance that the ability to configure Apps could also be placed on
the player pages under 'My Players'?  One page (tab) with all of the
configurable options of all installed Apps.  I'm assuming this won't be
more than account, enabled and home menu status, so that it could be
laid out nicely in columns.  Or else don't use columns.

How do you reconcile all this with a local server that doesn't have the
necessary plugin installed?  Is the player simply moved to SN if the
selection is made while connected to an SbS server without the plugin? 
That would make more sense (to me) than removing the selection from the
menus while the player is connected to the SbS server.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-03 Thread Andy Grundman

On Sep 3, 2009, at 4:41 PM, JJZolx wrote:


 This is definitely a nicer way of doing things.

 When you install an app, I think you should be taken directly to the
 'Configure' page.  Ideally with some type of message saying that  
 you've
 succesfully installed the app, as many of the 'install' pages in 'App
 Gallery' look the same as the 'configure' pages in 'My Apps'.

 Any chance that the ability to configure Apps could also be placed on
 the player pages under 'My Players'?  One page (tab) with all of the
 configurable options of all installed Apps.  I'm assuming this won't  
 be
 more than account, enabled and home menu status, so that it could be
 laid out nicely in columns.  Or else don't use columns.

Hmm, maybe if we have time.

 How do you reconcile all this with a local server that doesn't have  
 the
 necessary plugin installed?  Is the player simply moved to SN if the
 selection is made while connected to an SbS server without the plugin?
 That would make more sense (to me) than removing the selection from  
 the
 menus while the player is connected to the SbS server.

Right now if you disable say, the Napster plugin, and you have Napster  
enabled as an app, it will not be returned in the menu from SbS.  But  
it would still be returned by SN, so I guess it would always use SN in  
this case, yes.

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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-02 Thread Phil Meyer
Hi Andy Grundman a...@slimdevices.com,

 Wouldn't it better if App Gallery only lists Apps that haven't been  
 installed?  i.e. have the uninstall/configure purely on My Apps?

Yeah good point.

Also, perhaps an option to ignore/hide an item in the App Gallery.  Maybe 
having ignored an App, it could move into an Ignored category (so you can 
still get to previously ignored items).

That means that we don't keep seeing the same apps that we don't want all the 
time, and new Apps will be easier to discover.
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-02 Thread erland

andyg;453893 Wrote: 
 
 App Gallery has a single button: Install App.  This button enables
 the app for all of your current and future players.  After install, this
 changes to Uninstall/Configure as it does today, uninstall would remove
 the app from all players, configure takes you to the My Apps page.
 
So if I understand this correctly, this means that a new player
automatically will get all previously installed apps enabled by default
assuming they are supported on the player type.
This sounds a lot better than the solution we have today.

Will this also work the same way in the future when install doesn't
just enable a menu but actually downloads and installs something (like
third party plugins/applets) ?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-02 Thread andyg

erland;454162 Wrote: 
 So if I understand this correctly, this means that a new player
 automatically will get all previously installed apps enabled by default
 assuming they are supported on the player type.
 This sounds a lot better than the solution we have today.
 

Right.

 
 Will this also work the same way in the future when install doesn't
 just enable a menu but actually downloads and installs something (like
 third party plugins/applets) ?

I would think so, the first time that new player connects it will
download and install everything that's been enabled for your account.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-02 Thread erland

andyg;454163 Wrote: 
 
  erland;454162 Wrote: 
  
  Will this also work the same way in the future when install doesn't
  just enable a menu but actually downloads and installs something (like
  third party plugins/applets) ?

 I would think so, the first time that new player connects it will
 download and install everything that's been enabled for your account.
 
I'm guessing you will need some kind of Upgrade button too in the
future or will application upgrades happen automatically ?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-02 Thread Andy Grundman

 I'm guessing you will need some kind of Upgrade button too in the
 future or will application upgrades happen automatically ?

You're getting a bit ahead of things. :)  I honestly have not thought  
about that at all. 
  
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-01 Thread pippin

Oh, and one more thing: does more than one account mean for the
service? I can't have more than one MySB account that the device knows
of, can't I?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-01 Thread andyg

I realize I forgot one option for the Players tab.  A toggle for whether
the app appears on the home menu or not.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-01 Thread andyg

pippin;453898 Wrote: 
 How would that players configuration matrix look like on the
 device/controller?

There's no matrix on-device.  You can switch accounts within an app
though, for example Napster - Account: A - Switch to: B

Possibly we could have home menu toggle on-device.  Enable/disable
probably not, because there would be no way to get the app back if you
disabled it.


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[SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-01 Thread andyg

I know the current design of App Gallery and My Apps is frustrating to
some (all?) and it's probably more frustrating for us developers and
beta testers who have numerous players.  I've been thinking a bit and
have a proposal for some simple changes that I think will make the
system work better.

Note: Below I'll talk about just the MySB web UI, but Install App
also applies to the on-device App Gallery, everything works the same
there.

The problem:

The design today requires you to click Install App once for each
player you want an app to appear on.  Also, when adding a new player to
your house, you will have to go back and click a bunch of Install App
buttons to setup the new player.

Proposed solution:

App Gallery has a single button: Install App.  This button enables
the app for all of your current and future players.  After install, this
changes to Uninstall/Configure as it does today, uninstall would remove
the app from all players, configure takes you to the My Apps page.

My Apps gets a new tab next to Account Settings called Players.  This
tab is a combo of the multiple account player assignment as well as
includes a way to toggle apps as enabled or disabled on a per-player
basis.  For example, the Sirius Players tab might look like this:


Code:


  Player   Account  Status
  --   ---  --
  * Basement:him  enabled
  * Kitchen  her  enabled
  * Kids Room--   disabled
  * Garage:  --   not supported
  



The account column has select boxes if you have more than one account,
and the status column has some method TBD to toggle the status of the
app for that player (select box, link, checkbox, etc).  If an app does
not have accounts, the only thing shown is a Players tab with status
toggle options.

I can anticipate one feature request, and that is to not show
already-installed apps in App Gallery.  This will be easier to implement
when apps are an account-wide setting.

Comments?  Did I forget anything?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-01 Thread pippin

One more thing. You wrote as it is now. I just tried (yesterday's
nightly) and there is no way to uninstall/modify an app. When I install
it, the menu in the App Gallery doesn't change and I can just install it
over and over again.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-01 Thread andyg

Currently there should be an uninstall button on the App Gallery (one
for each player), as well as one on the My Apps page in the upper-right.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-01 Thread pippin

andyg;453925 Wrote: 
 Currently there should be an uninstall button on the App Gallery (one
 for each player), as well as one on the My Apps page in the upper-right.

Where?
SBS Web IF doesn't have an App Gallery
I don't see it in the menus delivered to iPeng
And since there currently is no way for me to use MySB (there is no way
to connect a player to it without physical access, which I don't have
right now) that's not reachable as well.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-01 Thread Andy Grundman
OK sorry I mean on the test.sn web UI.  SC web UI will not have any of  
this, but the web UI will send users to MySB.  On-device menus, I will  
probably add Uninstall, but I think it should require you to enter  
your MySB password because it will remove the app from all players.
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-01 Thread pippin

andyg;453929 Wrote: 
 OK sorry I mean on the test.sn web UI.  SC web UI will not have any of  
 this, but the web UI will send users to MySB.  On-device menus, I will 
 
 probably add Uninstall, but I think it should require you to enter  
 your MySB password because it will remove the app from all players.

Is there a way to get a player connected to test.sn right now? Would
like to try this.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-01 Thread Andy Grundman

On Sep 1, 2009, at 7:20 PM, pippin wrote:


 andyg;453929 Wrote:
 OK sorry I mean on the test.sn web UI.  SC web UI will not have any  
 of
 this, but the web UI will send users to MySB.  On-device menus, I  
 will

 probably add Uninstall, but I think it should require you to enter
 your MySB password because it will remove the app from all players.

 Is there a way to get a player connected to test.sn right now? Would
 like to try this.

By running 7.4 with a valid account entered, it should already have  
all of your players listed, etc.  Is that not working?
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-01 Thread pippin

andyg;453936 Wrote: 
 
 By running 7.4 with a valid account entered, it should already have  
 all of your players listed, etc.  Is that not working?

It does have them listed, but I can't CONTROL them.
Even when I shut down the server, they stay disconnected.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-01 Thread pippin

OK, I see I can configure it even when a player is not connected to SN.
One thing I DON'T see, though, is the option to add an app to the home
menu. I do see this on the device's menu.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-01 Thread Andy Grundman

On Sep 1, 2009, at 7:46 PM, pippin wrote:


 OK, I see I can configure it even when a player is not connected to  
 SN.
 One thing I DON'T see, though, is the option to add an app to the home
 menu. I do see this on the device's menu.

Yeah this is missing and will be added.

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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-01 Thread Phil Meyer
App Gallery has a single button: Install App.  This button enables
the app for all of your current and future players.  After install, this
changes to Uninstall/Configure as it does today, uninstall would remove
the app from all players, configure takes you to the My Apps page.

Wouldn't it better if App Gallery only lists Apps that haven't been installed?  
i.e. have the uninstall/configure purely on My Apps?
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-01 Thread Andy Grundman

On Sep 1, 2009, at 8:32 PM, Phil Meyer wrote:

 App Gallery has a single button: Install App.  This button enables
 the app for all of your current and future players.  After install,  
 this
 changes to Uninstall/Configure as it does today, uninstall would  
 remove
 the app from all players, configure takes you to the My Apps page.

 Wouldn't it better if App Gallery only lists Apps that haven't been  
 installed?  i.e. have the uninstall/configure purely on My Apps?

Yeah good point.
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-01 Thread Mark Miksis

andyg;453893 Wrote: 
 Comments?  Did I forget anything?

I think this is great.  Isn't there also already a plan to ease
upgrades?  I can't remember, but what happens if a user upgrades from SC
7.3.3 to SBS 7.4 and already has valid Rhapsody credentials entered in
SN?  Will they still need to manually install the Rhapsody App?


-- 
Mark Miksis

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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-01 Thread Andy Grundman

On Sep 1, 2009, at 9:50 PM, Mark Miksis wrote:


 andyg;453893 Wrote:
 Comments?  Did I forget anything?

 I think this is great.  Isn't there also already a plan to ease
 upgrades?  I can't remember, but what happens if a user upgrades  
 from SC
 7.3.3 to SBS 7.4 and already has valid Rhapsody credentials entered in
 SN?  Will they still need to manually install the Rhapsody App?

Bug 13711, if you already have a music service account, the app will  
be pre-installed.  I don't know if it should appear on the home menu  
by default or not though.  Probably not.

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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Proposal for improving App Gallery/My Apps

2009-09-01 Thread Mnyb

It is not possible to remove an app via the controller ? but you can
install them.
Must I go to mysb (SN) to remove an aplication ?


And please put the radio providers under internet radio again, I don't
want for example shoutcast or radioio as an app I want them back under
internetradio where they belong.


-- 
Mnyb



No it can NOT be controlled with iTunes

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