Re: Rudeness (was: Re: Making radio button labels clickable)
On Nov 3, 2011, at 11:51, Jeremy Burns | Class Outfit wrote: This is one of the most friendly and responsive forums No, sorry. This is by far the rudest and least helpful list I've ever been on. The fact that that rudeness is often perpetrated by the administrators of the list means this is part of the culture of this list and is emulated by other list contributors. I've lost could of how many times I've seen someone post a question only to receive a dozen rude / unhelpful / snarky replies. Yes, people need to be educated about how to ask helpful questions that better enable people to help them. But it is possible to do that without insulting them. One of the authors of Subversion (a program I use, and whose mailing list I also participate in) wrote a book, Producing Open Source Software. You can read it online for free: http://producingoss.com/ Not tolerating rudeness is one of the tenets of a good open source project that's talked about in the book: http://producingoss.com/en/setting-tone.html#prevent-rudeness Notably, this section is written from the perspective that a project administrator would be the one reigning in the rudeness of another list member. The idea that a project administrator could be the one perpetrating the rudeness is so outlandish that it does not appear to have occurred to the author. Clearly the people being rude on this list either do not realize that they are being rude, or do not see a problem with being rude to people who have come to seek help in a discussion group created specifically for that purpose; either problem is alarming. I suggest the administrators and contributors of this list and this project seriously reconsider their manner of interacting with their users if they want to stop alienating large portions of their userbase. -- Our newest site for the community: CakePHP Video Tutorials http://tv.cakephp.org Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://ask.cakephp.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php
Re: Rudeness (was: Re: Making radio button labels clickable)
Disagree. For starters - rather than creating a new thread by changing the subject, why didn't you just reply in the existing thread? I had to go back and take a look at what you were talking about. Secondly the responses in that thread don't look rude at all. Helpful suggestions for getting helpful responses (keep it brief, use pastebin etc). I've always gotten helpful, quick responses to questions - even when my questions have been borderline moronic. That said people are volunteers, and are busy - so they are entitled to be frustrated when people do silly things (like respond directly to people via mail, repeat questions that have been answered dozens of times etc). I've been on far less helpful lists (lists which are moderated - asking a simple question never even makes it to the list. Simple questions getting asked because of poor documentation never ever get answered). Don't confuse short, sharp, to the point responses as rudeness. People don't often have the time to reply to responses with essays... On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Ryan Schmidt google-2...@ryandesign.comwrote: On Nov 3, 2011, at 11:51, Jeremy Burns | Class Outfit wrote: This is one of the most friendly and responsive forums No, sorry. This is by far the rudest and least helpful list I've ever been on. The fact that that rudeness is often perpetrated by the administrators of the list means this is part of the culture of this list and is emulated by other list contributors. I've lost could of how many times I've seen someone post a question only to receive a dozen rude / unhelpful / snarky replies. Yes, people need to be educated about how to ask helpful questions that better enable people to help them. But it is possible to do that without insulting them. One of the authors of Subversion (a program I use, and whose mailing list I also participate in) wrote a book, Producing Open Source Software. You can read it online for free: http://producingoss.com/ Not tolerating rudeness is one of the tenets of a good open source project that's talked about in the book: http://producingoss.com/en/setting-tone.html#prevent-rudeness Notably, this section is written from the perspective that a project administrator would be the one reigning in the rudeness of another list member. The idea that a project administrator could be the one perpetrating the rudeness is so outlandish that it does not appear to have occurred to the author. Clearly the people being rude on this list either do not realize that they are being rude, or do not see a problem with being rude to people who have come to seek help in a discussion group created specifically for that purpose; either problem is alarming. I suggest the administrators and contributors of this list and this project seriously reconsider their manner of interacting with their users if they want to stop alienating large portions of their userbase. -- Our newest site for the community: CakePHP Video Tutorials http://tv.cakephp.org Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://ask.cakephp.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php -- Our newest site for the community: CakePHP Video Tutorials http://tv.cakephp.org Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://ask.cakephp.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php
Re: Rudeness (was: Re: Making radio button labels clickable)
I guess the main problem with this list is the lack of modern post markup. With too much code as plain text it gets really hard to read and comprehend. I start to think that a google group is not the right board for code related issues. at least consider the possibility to post your issue at http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/cakephp you could still re-link it here or sth. but foreign links (pastebin,...) are still links outside of this context, can be unreachable etc. so that's not ideal, either. the group is perfect for more general topics or with only a few lines of code. but other than that it is not really made for developers (especially web developers). as for the rudeness: 99% of all questions asked in a appropriate way get an appropriate answer. I sometimes catch myself writing a little bit too rude and regret this some time later on. But in the heat of the moment I am asking myself How can someone have such a lack of communication skills and common sense if he posts sth like HELP ME. Please program me a messaging plugin. thank you. It's annoying - to all of those. Yes, its a good practice to test your own patience with this patient. But sometimes its just too annoying. I am certainly not saying that rudeness of a thread starter should be treated with rudeness. But it is not only the fault of administrators or contributors - the thread starter has a show a certain respect for the group and the members of it, as well. and this is most certainly not always the case. As I said: A serious and good outlines question (that also shows that you at least tried to come up with a solution yourself for trivial issues) has always been treated as one. As far as I remember the last years. -- Our newest site for the community: CakePHP Video Tutorials http://tv.cakephp.org Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://ask.cakephp.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php
