Re: bakery hates me
While we're at it, why is The Bakery under core team? Should there be a Bakery Team? If they delegate the maintenance of bakery to someone else, it would take their load off AND improve user experience of the bakery. I'm sure there are more than a few people out there (or rather - here) that would be more than willing to do that. That way, the core team could focus on what they do best! Please note that I'm really not trying to bash anyone here, it's just an idea which might or might not be worth considering. :-) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: bakery hates me
On Jan 7, 2008 1:35 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. You're trying to get the acceptance of the community by slamming misinterpreting the user. While this cabal nature might help you to be popular among the cult, this won't help you in real world. If I am misinterpreting what you are saying, I would love to be corrected. I am willing to accept when I am wrong. 2. I'm/I wasn't complaining anything. I was just suggesting that open svn branch and Wiki model would help better Correct me if I'm wrong, but a common theme in your posts is that there needs to be a wiki and there needs to be a way for changes to happen faster. A wiki was an unmitigated disaster in the past, so why would anyone want to go back to that unless they were some kind of masochist. In my experience, asking for the same thing over and over again despite being told it's not going to happen is complaining. Again, show me that I'm wrong and I'll agree with you. 3. I'm not a framework critic nor a fan boy. If there is/will be any better framework, I'll be happy to adopt that. I prefer CakePHP for some of the projects and plain PHP for some other projects. I don't believe I said that you were some kind of framework critic, so I don't see how that's relevant to this discussion. You complained about how long it takes in your opinion to get 'simple' fixes done. I pointed out what the proper way to go about getting fixes done. 4. For CakePHP, I still believe that Wiki model would be really helpful as for now, majority of good information available on CakePHP are partially through self promotional blogs. A centralized Wiki would be helpful for the developers/users and for the CakePHP itself. Self promotional blogs. Like mine, perhaps? It's probably disingenious of me to try and claim that my blog is not self-promoting, but the purpose of the blog isn't to make me look smart. It's to try and share stuff that I've come across and maybe help spark some discussion. Django like credit in Wiki might help, if anyone wants to be credited for the contribution. Here's what I think about a CakePHP wiki: USELESS unless someone maintains them and makes sure that whatever being posted is accurate. I believe that there is a project coming out very shortly that combines the best of the documentation with the best of a wiki: the CakePHP cookbook. Again, others will correct me if I'm wrong. 5. Look at the recent changeset, not all commits are based on tickets. Not all commits even don't need tickets. I'm not complaining on any of my tickets I agree that not all commits need tickets, because sometimes those changes are driven by the core team itself. Again, I didn't say that all commits are based on tickets. But if someone outside the core team finds a bug, it needs to be submitted via a ticket. 6. Open svn branch would again be helpful for the developers. I'm not saying that allowing open access for all svn branches--but to allow access only for a single branch. Selective merging is really easy with diff tools. Again, I fail to see how this helps anything other than a programmer's bruised ego. What you are asking for is a complete change from the current development structure, where programmers who have been judged by their peers are given access to relevant branches. Is it arbitrary? Sure. Is it elitist? Probably? Is it unfair to frustrated programmers who want to see bugs fixed faster? Absolutely. Submit patches with your tickets to increase the chances of a bug actually being fixed. Also, don't forget that the ugly spectre of intellectual property can rear it's head as well. All contributers are asked to sign a CLA that declares you are not violating anyone's intellectual property in the code you've committed to the repository. An open svn branch would not have that restriction, and I wouldn't touch any code coming out of that with a ten foot pole. Again, it's about QUALITY, not SPEED. The quality of the open branch svn will not just be based on unit tests and perception of core team, but would also be based on real life situations/projects--which would be more helpful for the developers. One person's real life situation is another person's edge case. I totally understand where you are coming from, but what you are advocating is a kitchen sink system where everybody throws whatever features they think are critical into the framework. I think it would be far better to have the core tight, with as little functionality as needed to meet the overall goals of the framework and then provide an infrastructure to allow people to add their own things in. As I see it, this ability already exists through the helper / behaviour / component architecture that is in place. Let me ask this question, which I think is probably the most important one: If you were a developer wanting to use CakePHP, what branch would you want to use: 1) 1.1.x stable, which has fallen far behind in
Re: bakery hates me
On Jan 4, 7:59 pm, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 4, 2008 2:02 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/msg/300bec44c5902198 I read the post above, so let me see if I understand this correctly. 1) People should be allowed to commit whatever code they like to some branch of CakePHP, only for the reason that some people feel it unnecessary to use things like tickets, patch submissions, and peer code review 2) Filing tickets, bad! Unrestricted access to fuck up someone elses code, good! 3) Merging code from from some random, open branch is an easy thing First of all, this has nothing to do with there being a CakePHP wiki. The last time there was a wiki, it was apparently a huge disaster. I was not there during that time period, so I have no idea. However, feel free to knock yourself out and set one up. Secondly, the process that exists for CakePHP seems to be as follows: 1) create a ticket 2) submit a patch if one is needed with ticket 3) ticket is evaluated by someone on whether or not it's worth doing 4) If it's worth doing, the problem is addressed, patches are written, tests are updated, code is committed See, I think it's at point 3 where people get their panties in a knot. Look, not every bug or enhancement request is going to be addressed. It's that simple. Also, something that you feel is super-important might not be super-important to the core dev team. The hardest thing to do when someone asks you to add or fix something is to say No, I don't think that is worth doing. Rajesh complains Having fully moved to branch version, I have noted even for adding some quotes in cake/console/libs/templates/views/view.ctp, someone has to open tickets and wait for core developers. Have you EVER worked on an open source project where there was unfettered access for committing changes to the main development branches? I have yet to see one, and the reason for that is people write shitty code and make mistakes. I don't know about you, but whenever I would commit stuff to the main CakePHP dev branch I would always triple-check things before I did it. And most of the time I was content to simply add a patch to the ticket and let someone else handle merging the code in, because I can't always be 100% certain that my code won't break something that someone else, unbeknownst to me, has been working on. Seriously, did you (a) file a ticket and (b) submit a patch to fix the problem? If you didn't, then I don't think you have any right to complain about it not being done. If you did, did you follow up with the ticket itself to see if there were any comments on it? Every single ticket *is* read by someone on the core dev team, but people seem to take it personally whenever their ticket isn't immediately acted upon. Human nature, I guess. You can argue with how long it takes to get a bug or enhancement taken care of. What you can't argue is that the code being created by the core team is not of a very high quality. That is what really matters, not turnaround time for bugs. 1. You're trying to get the acceptance of the community by slamming misinterpreting the user. While this cabal nature might help you to be popular among the cult, this won't help you in real world. 2. I'm/I wasn't complaining anything. I was just suggesting that open svn branch and Wiki model would help better 3. I'm not a framework critic nor a fan boy. If there is/will be any better framework, I'll be happy to adopt that. I prefer CakePHP for some of the projects and plain PHP for some other projects. 4. For CakePHP, I still believe that Wiki model would be really helpful as for now, majority of good information available on CakePHP are partially through self promotional blogs. A centralized Wiki would be helpful for the developers/users and for the CakePHP itself. Django like credit in Wiki might help, if anyone wants to be credited for the contribution. 5. Look at the recent changeset, not all commits are based on tickets. Not all commits even don't need tickets. I'm not complaining on any of my tickets 6. Open svn branch would again be helpful for the developers. I'm not saying that allowing open access for all svn branches--but to allow access only for a single branch. Selective merging is really easy with diff tools. This might help developers who use branch svn version to have speedy fixes, better unified/centralized hacks/solutions incorporated for their projects (for example, there are lot of solutions posted for real life situations--the situations are common for anyone who build professional projects--but the solutions are different) The quality of the open branch svn will not just be based on unit tests and perception of core team, but would also be based on real life situations/projects--which would be more helpful for the developers. -- ?php echo 'Just another PHP saint'; ? Email:
Re: bakery hates me
I also can not change my bakery profile or login or comment... :( --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: bakery hates me
On Jan 4, 2008 2:02 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/msg/300bec44c5902198 I read the post above, so let me see if I understand this correctly. 1) People should be allowed to commit whatever code they like to some branch of CakePHP, only for the reason that some people feel it unnecessary to use things like tickets, patch submissions, and peer code review 2) Filing tickets, bad! Unrestricted access to fuck up someone elses code, good! 3) Merging code from from some random, open branch is an easy thing First of all, this has nothing to do with there being a CakePHP wiki. The last time there was a wiki, it was apparently a huge disaster. I was not there during that time period, so I have no idea. However, feel free to knock yourself out and set one up. Secondly, the process that exists for CakePHP seems to be as follows: 1) create a ticket 2) submit a patch if one is needed with ticket 3) ticket is evaluated by someone on whether or not it's worth doing 4) If it's worth doing, the problem is addressed, patches are written, tests are updated, code is committed See, I think it's at point 3 where people get their panties in a knot. Look, not every bug or enhancement request is going to be addressed. It's that simple. Also, something that you feel is super-important might not be super-important to the core dev team. The hardest thing to do when someone asks you to add or fix something is to say No, I don't think that is worth doing. Rajesh complains Having fully moved to branch version, I have noted even for adding some quotes in cake/console/libs/templates/views/view.ctp, someone has to open tickets and wait for core developers. Have you EVER worked on an open source project where there was unfettered access for committing changes to the main development branches? I have yet to see one, and the reason for that is people write shitty code and make mistakes. I don't know about you, but whenever I would commit stuff to the main CakePHP dev branch I would always triple-check things before I did it. And most of the time I was content to simply add a patch to the ticket and let someone else handle merging the code in, because I can't always be 100% certain that my code won't break something that someone else, unbeknownst to me, has been working on. Seriously, did you (a) file a ticket and (b) submit a patch to fix the problem? If you didn't, then I don't think you have any right to complain about it not being done. If you did, did you follow up with the ticket itself to see if there were any comments on it? Every single ticket *is* read by someone on the core dev team, but people seem to take it personally whenever their ticket isn't immediately acted upon. Human nature, I guess. You can argue with how long it takes to get a bug or enhancement taken care of. What you can't argue is that the code being created by the core team is not of a very high quality. That is what really matters, not turnaround time for bugs. -- Chris Hartjes Internet Loudmouth Motto for 2008: Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes... @TheKeyBoard: http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: bakery hates me
Yeah, that's probably the sad reality. I hope someone from the Cake team is reading this group and will notice these comments, otherwise it wouldn't be a 'friendly community'. :-/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: bakery hates me
On Jan 3, 2008 2:40 PM, dr. Hannibal Lecter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope someone from the Cake team is reading this group and will notice these comments, otherwise it wouldn't be a 'friendly community'. :-/ I find the above statement very unfair towards cakePHP team - if we as users are not willing to take an extra step to help out the developers who are giving us all this awesome goodness then I would say that we users are being utterly selfish and do not understand how friendships work! And FWIW my personal experience is that posting in trac works. Cheers Tarique -- = Cheesecake-Photoblog: http://cheesecake-photoblog.org PHP for E-Biz: http://sanisoft.com = --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: bakery hates me
The reason why I didn't post to trac is being I don't post bugs without a patch or a solid wya to reproduce. I did download the bakery source, however I am wondering which version of cake it is using? Cheers, Adam On Jan 3, 7:10 pm, dr. Hannibal Lecter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, that's probably the sad reality. I hope someone from the Cake team is reading this group and will notice these comments, otherwise it wouldn't be a 'friendly community'. :-/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: bakery hates me
I find the above statement very unfair towards cakePHP team - if we as users are not willing to take an extra step to help out the developers who are giving us all this awesome goodness then I would say that we users are being utterly selfish and do not understand how friendships work! Well, sorry, it was not my intention to be unfair. I think that the Cake team is doing a great job each and every day and congratulate them on that. Don't get me wrong on that. But it is a bit odd that the same people who can create such great framework can neglect the presentation layer. Bakery _is_ what most of the new Cake users see after the official site, and if it's not usable, what will the newcomers think of the framework itself? On the other hand, isn't Cake created for us (users/developers)? No users - no Cake. Of course, *no Cake team - no Cake*; but I'm pretty sure that core bakers do not code all this for themselves. I would never say anything against them because that would just plain suck bigtime. I think that open source is all about sharing and _listening_ to what other people have to say, even if it is something negative. The day bakers stop doing that will be the end of Cake (or any other project for that matter). I don't know, I might be seriously wrong, I guess that's the beauty of it. :-) (I know the above paragraph will somehow be misinterpreted as bashing and that I will regret for posting it) Sorry for the off-topic. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: bakery hates me
On Jan 3, 2008 7:05 PM, dr. Hannibal Lecter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (I know the above paragraph will somehow be misinterpreted as bashing and that I will regret for posting it) If you are smart enough to realize this - I will shut up ;) BTW is M$ Windows your primary OS? Tarique -- = Cheesecake-Photoblog: http://cheesecake-photoblog.org PHP for E-Biz: http://sanisoft.com = --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: bakery hates me
Hehe, nice one :-) Unfortunately, yes, I use WinXP as primary OS :-/ But you can't beat me with that fact, I've used SuSE for quite some time too :-P Due to my work (a company fairly well related to M$ dev tools) and some games I like to play (never too old to play games:)), I am oppressed to M$.. Say, would you agree that constructive criticism is good (even when related to Cake)? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: bakery hates me
Thanks everybody for pitching in to this thread. However, maybe someone missed my biggest point. 1. If you read my first post you'll notice I'm bagging out an article that was approved on the bakery. Did anyone click the link and read the article - if so, who agrees with my response? and then later I asked... 2. What version of cake is the bakery running on? I don't care much for politics, but I would like to help out and fix what I can, even if that means re-writing half of the bakery. Cheers, Adam On Jan 4, 2:06 am, Dr. Tarique Sani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 3, 2008 9:32 PM, dr. Hannibal Lecter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Say, would you agree that constructive criticism is good (even when related to Cake)? I am sure no one on this group will disagree with giving constructive criticism is good -including the CakePHP dev team however I strongly disagree with your definition and presumptions about the same. This is now indeed getting off topic so EOT for me Cheers Tarique -- = Cheesecake-Photoblog:http://cheesecake-photoblog.org PHP for E-Biz:http://sanisoft.com = --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: bakery hates me
1. If you read my first post you'll notice I'm bagging out an article that was approved on the bakery. Did anyone click the link and read the article - if so, who agrees with my response? Yep thought the same thing when i sow it. 2. What version of cake is the bakery running on? 1.2.something - i dont know how up-to-date it is with the trunk --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: bakery hates me
On Jan 3, 2:10 pm, dr. Hannibal Lecter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, that's probably the sad reality. I hope someone from the Cake team is reading this group and will notice these comments, otherwise it wouldn't be a 'friendly community'. :-/ FWIW, this seems to me an another reason why Wiki model will work better Related: http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/msg/300bec44c5902198 http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/msg/826a875b20da4a21 -- ?php echo 'Just another PHP saint'; ? Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
bakery hates me
Maybe it's just me, but I tried to add a comment to an article on the bakery,
and it wouldn't show up, and didn't show a error message. So I am going to add
it here. I am also going to scour the bakery source to find the root of the
issue.
The article: http://bakery.cakephp.org/articles/view/want-to-order-your-sql
The comment:
comment
titleWho approved this??/title
body
Sorry if this seems harsh but I think the above code is a terrible example to
put on the bakery.
A better solution for mock stored procedures already exists. Just create a
method in your model like so.
function getSomething($param1, $param2 = 0) {
return $this-findAll( array('blah' = $param1) );
}
or if you need custom sql:
function getSomething($param1, $param2 = 0) {
return $this-query(SELECT ... );
}
If it's something that is application specific, chuck it in your AppModel.
/body
/comment
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RE: bakery hates me
https://trac.cakephp.org/ https://trac.cakephp.org -MI --- Remember, smart coders answer ten questions for every question they ask. So be smart, be cool, and share your knowledge. BAKE ON! blog: http://www.MarianoIglesias.com.ar _ De: cake-php@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] En nombre de Adam Royle Enviado el: Miércoles, 02 de Enero de 2008 08:34 a.m. Para: cake-php@googlegroups.com Asunto: bakery hates me Maybe it's just me, but I tried to add a comment to an article on the bakery, and it wouldn't show up, and didn't show a error message. So I am going to add it here. I am also going to scour the bakery source to find the root of the issue. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: bakery hates me
I don't think posting links to Trac solves anything, it is a fact that bakery has many issues (some minor and some..not so minor). Some things should be seriously reconsidered and rewritten. But that's just my 2c. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: bakery hates me
On Jan 2, 2008 12:27 PM, dr. Hannibal Lecter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think posting links to Trac solves anything, it is a fact that bakery has many issues (some minor and some..not so minor). Some things should be seriously reconsidered and rewritten. But that's just my 2c. I agree, but unless people post tickets to trac specifically outlining the problems they were having, it remains unlikely that the problem will be addressed. That's just the reality of how bugs are handled for this project. -- Chris Hartjes My motto for 2007: Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes. @TheKeyboard - http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
