Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

[Peter Keller]

On Wed, 2015-05-20 at 16:09 -0600, James Stroud wrote:

> With that said, if you want to work behind a full-featured word
> processor and have access to the wonders of TeX typesetting,
> LibreOffice (OpenOffice) + TexMaths is the best for the author during
> preparation of a manuscript. At this point it is bug free (to my
> experience), embeds vector equations (SVG) or raster (PNG), is
> editable, and looks spectacular both when editing and when
> publishing/printing.

... as long as you don't use docx files: there are a lot of reported
docx-related problems (bugs and regressions) with LibreOffice. This URL
will show 500 of them:



There are many more docx-related issues on this bug tracker which have
been marked as fixed so a simple search like the above won't reveal
them, however they may not be fixed in the version of LibreOffice that
you happen to be using.

> The downside is that you have to collaborate with people you can’t
> force into using the best software. 

This brings us back to the original question, in which collaboration was
a factor. If you are able to use odt format for the containing document,
LibreOffice is fine and James' suggestion is a good one. It is probably
OK with doc format too, for most purposes. However, if you are
collaborating with people who are not able or willing to avoid the use
of docx format, using LibreOffice can be risky.

Regards,
Peter.

-- 
Peter Keller Tel.: +44 (0)1223 353033
Global Phasing Ltd., Fax.: +44 (0)1223 366889
Sheraton House,
Castle Park,
Cambridge CB3 0AX
United Kingdom

Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

[Steven Chou]

MathType is a Microsoft Word plugin (on both Windows and Mac OSX). It
worked very well for me.
http://www.dessci.com/EN/products/mathtype/

Best,
Steven

On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 6:09 PM, James Stroud  wrote:

> I didn’t see the following solution in any other responses. It’s probably
> the most reasonable one given the constraints of collaboration and
> publishing.
>
> In the absence of using the best software, I found it practical to write
> the equations in MathType and save them as MathType PDF equations and then
> add these equations to the document. It is a portable, cross-platform-ish
> solution. Others only need to install a MathType player, which is free. The
> advantage is that if your equation gets hosed in the document, you still
> have the original, editable equation in the PDF. In such cases, you must
> re-embed it in your document, but it’s better than fully rewriting it.
>
> With that said, if you want to work behind a full-featured word processor
> and have access to the wonders of TeX typesetting, LibreOffice (OpenOffice)
> + TexMaths is the best for the author during preparation of a manuscript.
> At this point it is bug free (to my experience), embeds vector equations
> (SVG) or raster (PNG), is editable, and looks spectacular both when editing
> and when publishing/printing.
>
> The downside is that you have to collaborate with people you can’t force
> into using the best software. Worse, journals seem to use proprietary
> publishing software and they want MathType or equation editor with
> Microsoft word, hence my first solution.
>
> James
>
>
>
>
> On May 18, 2015, at 5:10 AM, Keller, Jacob 
> wrote:
>
> > There is the possibility of using one of the open-source versions, like
> openOffice, but those I guess also have their issues.
> >
> > JPK
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of
> Randy Read
> > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 4:11 AM
> > To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> > Subject: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac
> >
> > Rather off-topic, but maybe someone on the list has found a way to work
> around this!
> >
> > There's a problem with the Equation Editor in Office 2011 for Mac (i.e.
> the one that is based on a stripped-down version of MathType, which you get
> with Insert->Object->Microsoft Equation).  You can insert an equation,
> re-open it and edit it several times, and then suddenly (and seemingly
> randomly) the equation object will be replaced by a picture showing the
> equation, which can no longer be edited.  I'm writing a rather
> equation-heavy paper at the moment, and this is driving me crazy.
> >
> > This seems to be a known bug, which has existed from the release of
> Office 2011.  Apparently it happens, unpredictably, when an AutoSave copy
> of the document is saved, so you can avoid it by turning off the AutoSave
> feature.  The last time this drove me crazy, several years ago, I did try
> turning off AutoSave.  For a while, I was very good about manually saving
> frequently, but I got into bad habits and eventually Word crashed after I
> had worked for several hours on a grant proposal without manually saving.
> So I turned AutoSave back on.
> >
> > At the moment, the least-bad solution seems to be to turn off AutoSave
> while I'm working on a document with lots of equations and then (hopefully)
> remember to turn it back on after that document is finished.  But it would
> be great if someone has come up with a better cure for this problem.
> >
> > No doubt someone will suggest switching from Word to LaTeX, but I need
> to be able to collaborate on paper-writing, and even though I might be
> willing to invest the effort in learning LaTeX, I can't really expect that
> of my collaborators.  Most people in our field do use Microsoft Word,
> regardless of its failings.  I've also tried using the professional version
> of MathType, but that requires your collaborators to install it as well -
> and I don't think that cured the equation to picture problem anyway.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > -
> > Randy J. Read
> > Department of Haematology, University of Cambridge
> > Cambridge Institute for Medical ResearchTel: +44 1223 336500
> > Wellcome Trust/MRC Building Fax: +44 1223 336827
> > Hills Road
> E-mail: rj...@cam.ac.uk
> > Cambridge CB2 0XY, U.K.
> www-structmed.cimr.cam.ac.uk
>



-- 
Steven Chou

Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

[James Stroud]

I didn’t see the following solution in any other responses. It’s probably the 
most reasonable one given the constraints of collaboration and publishing.

In the absence of using the best software, I found it practical to write the 
equations in MathType and save them as MathType PDF equations and then add 
these equations to the document. It is a portable, cross-platform-ish solution. 
Others only need to install a MathType player, which is free. The advantage is 
that if your equation gets hosed in the document, you still have the original, 
editable equation in the PDF. In such cases, you must re-embed it in your 
document, but it’s better than fully rewriting it.

With that said, if you want to work behind a full-featured word processor and 
have access to the wonders of TeX typesetting, LibreOffice (OpenOffice) + 
TexMaths is the best for the author during preparation of a manuscript. At this 
point it is bug free (to my experience), embeds vector equations (SVG) or 
raster (PNG), is editable, and looks spectacular both when editing and when 
publishing/printing.

The downside is that you have to collaborate with people you can’t force into 
using the best software. Worse, journals seem to use proprietary publishing 
software and they want MathType or equation editor with Microsoft word, hence 
my first solution.

James




On May 18, 2015, at 5:10 AM, Keller, Jacob  wrote:

> There is the possibility of using one of the open-source versions, like 
> openOffice, but those I guess also have their issues.
> 
> JPK
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of Randy 
> Read
> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 4:11 AM
> To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac
> 
> Rather off-topic, but maybe someone on the list has found a way to work 
> around this!
> 
> There's a problem with the Equation Editor in Office 2011 for Mac (i.e. the 
> one that is based on a stripped-down version of MathType, which you get with 
> Insert->Object->Microsoft Equation).  You can insert an equation, re-open it 
> and edit it several times, and then suddenly (and seemingly randomly) the 
> equation object will be replaced by a picture showing the equation, which can 
> no longer be edited.  I'm writing a rather equation-heavy paper at the 
> moment, and this is driving me crazy.
> 
> This seems to be a known bug, which has existed from the release of Office 
> 2011.  Apparently it happens, unpredictably, when an AutoSave copy of the 
> document is saved, so you can avoid it by turning off the AutoSave feature.  
> The last time this drove me crazy, several years ago, I did try turning off 
> AutoSave.  For a while, I was very good about manually saving frequently, but 
> I got into bad habits and eventually Word crashed after I had worked for 
> several hours on a grant proposal without manually saving.  So I turned 
> AutoSave back on.
> 
> At the moment, the least-bad solution seems to be to turn off AutoSave while 
> I'm working on a document with lots of equations and then (hopefully) 
> remember to turn it back on after that document is finished.  But it would be 
> great if someone has come up with a better cure for this problem.
> 
> No doubt someone will suggest switching from Word to LaTeX, but I need to be 
> able to collaborate on paper-writing, and even though I might be willing to 
> invest the effort in learning LaTeX, I can't really expect that of my 
> collaborators.  Most people in our field do use Microsoft Word, regardless of 
> its failings.  I've also tried using the professional version of MathType, 
> but that requires your collaborators to install it as well - and I don't 
> think that cured the equation to picture problem anyway.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -
> Randy J. Read
> Department of Haematology, University of Cambridge
> Cambridge Institute for Medical ResearchTel: +44 1223 336500
> Wellcome Trust/MRC Building Fax: +44 1223 336827
> Hills RoadE-mail: 
> rj...@cam.ac.uk
> Cambridge CB2 0XY, U.K.   
> www-structmed.cimr.cam.ac.uk

Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

[Kay Diederichs]

if it only occurs with the Mac version of Word: a workaround would be to set up 
a virtual machine on your Mac in which you run Windows and its version of Word. 
Anybody tried this?
Kay

Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

[Murpholino Peligro]

Certainly LyX is very nice for beginners, and yes you can start typing
without reading the manual (Although I do recommend reading the manual).
But there are lots of problems with compatibility (like Lyx 2.X cannot open
Lyx 1.6.x files or something like that). And sometimes if you do
\usepackage{whatever} in the preamble and that package was going to be
loaded by LyX, then you wil end up with a package clash... and there is
where the beginner gets lost.  The citation manager that I like to use with
LyX (or LaTeX) is called Jabref (F5 to open the look for dialog; choose
database ->pubmed; input pubmed id; click on import and generate key; and
finally with one button you can push that reference into LyX).
Why I like about sharelatex is that you can start by a minimum input,
others can watch you in real time...far away...and then they can be as good
..as you (limiting factor) in a couple of days.


2015-05-19 11:39 GMT-05:00 Mooers, Blaine H.M. (HSC) <
blaine-moo...@ouhsc.edu>:

> Hi Randy,
>
> You could use a LyX-->LaTeXiT-->MS Word workflow to solve the equation
> editing issue without anyone learning LaTeX syntax.
>
> The LyX document with equations can be exported to a LaTeX  *.tex file,
> and you can open this tex file  in any text editor to copy the equations
> encoded in LaTeX syntax for pasting into the LaTeXiT gui.  Alternatively,
> you can select and copy the equation in the LyX document and paste it
> directly into the LaTeXiT gui to get back the LaTeX encoding.
>
> LyX gui is very easy to start using productively without reading the
> manual. However, I do not know of a way to directly use ENDNOTE with LyX. I
> use LyX to assemble my early drafts, and then I move the draft into MS Word
> when I need to start adding citations. In MS Word 2011 on a Mac, it is
> painful to scroll through a large document (>10 pages) with tables and
> figures, whereas a 1000 page document in LyX can be scrolled through in a
> flash. LyX has been used to assemble books.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Blaine
>
> Blaine Mooers, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor
> Director of the Laboratory of Biomolecular Structure and Function
> Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
> University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center
> S.L. Young Biomedical Research Center Rm. 466
>
> Shipping address:
> 975 NE 10th Street, BRC 466
> Oklahoma City, OK 73104-5419
>
> Letter address:
> P.O. Box 26901, BRC 466
> Oklahoma City, OK 73190
>
> office: (405) 271-8300   lab: (405) 271-8313  fax:  (405) 271-3910
> e-mail:  blaine-moo...@ouhsc.edu
>
> Faculty webpage:
> http://www.oumedicine.com/department-of-biochemistry-and-molecular-biology/faculty/blaine-mooers-ph-d-
>
> Small Angle Scattering webpage:
> http://www.oumedicine.com/docs/default-source/ad-biochemistry-workfiles/small-angle-scattering-links-27aug2014.html?sfvrsn=0
>
> X-ray lab webpage:
> http://www.oumedicine.com/department-of-biochemistry-and-molecular-biology/department-facilities/macromolecular-crystallography-laboratory
>
>
> 
> From: CCP4 bulletin board [CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] on behalf of George
> Reeke [re...@mail.rockefeller.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 10:17 AM
> To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac
>
> Dear Randy et al,
> May I suggest Lyx, an open-source wysiwyg editor that outputs
> Latex.  The interface is so much like other word processors that
> it is a snap to learn quickly and you get those Latex files with
> equations that journals, at least math and physics journals, like.
> Maybe you could get your colleagues to try it--I did even though
> I was sure I didn't want to learn Latex.  I use it in Linux,
> where you do one of those configure-make-install-from-source-
> code installs.  Here is the online info for using it on a mac:
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__wiki.lyx.org_Mac_Mac&d=AwIFaQ&c=qRnFByZajCb3ogDwk-HidsbrxD-31vTsTBEIa6TCCEk&r=39ovrj_9gtbpqLqHj52qObHez22uGBx1oHrj21rIdII&m=LcTP6vjD81n8gdU8pO7MO0O_G5V4cd6IYIjH5HR5LAQ&s=ZKNr8DjE1hiSYE6bjdgorDpAUWU_3gUFfRH9urzCZxI&e=
> George Reeke
>
> On Mon, 2015-05-18 at 09:10 +0100, Randy Read wrote:
> > Rather off-topic, but maybe someone on the list has found a way to work
> around this!
> >
> > There’s a problem with the Equation Editor in Office 2011 for Mac (i.e.
> the one that is based on a stripped-down version of MathType, which you get
> with Insert->Object->Microsoft Equation).  You can insert an equation,
> re-open it and edit it several times, and then suddenly (and seemingly
> randomly) the equation object will be replaced by a picture showing the
> equation, which can no longer be edi

Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

[Mooers, Blaine H.M. (HSC)]

Hi Randy,

You could use a LyX-->LaTeXiT-->MS Word workflow to solve the equation editing 
issue without anyone learning LaTeX syntax.

The LyX document with equations can be exported to a LaTeX  *.tex file, and you 
can open this tex file  in any text editor to copy the equations encoded in 
LaTeX syntax for pasting into the LaTeXiT gui.  Alternatively, you can select 
and copy the equation in the LyX document and paste it directly into the 
LaTeXiT gui to get back the LaTeX encoding. 

LyX gui is very easy to start using productively without reading the manual. 
However, I do not know of a way to directly use ENDNOTE with LyX. I use LyX to 
assemble my early drafts, and then I move the draft into MS Word when I need to 
start adding citations. In MS Word 2011 on a Mac, it is painful to scroll 
through a large document (>10 pages) with tables and figures, whereas a 1000 
page document in LyX can be scrolled through in a flash. LyX has been used to 
assemble books.

Best regards,

Blaine

Blaine Mooers, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Director of the Laboratory of Biomolecular Structure and Function
Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center
S.L. Young Biomedical Research Center Rm. 466

Shipping address:
975 NE 10th Street, BRC 466
Oklahoma City, OK 73104-5419

Letter address:
P.O. Box 26901, BRC 466
Oklahoma City, OK 73190

office: (405) 271-8300   lab: (405) 271-8313  fax:  (405) 271-3910
e-mail:  blaine-moo...@ouhsc.edu

Faculty webpage: 
http://www.oumedicine.com/department-of-biochemistry-and-molecular-biology/faculty/blaine-mooers-ph-d-

Small Angle Scattering webpage: 
http://www.oumedicine.com/docs/default-source/ad-biochemistry-workfiles/small-angle-scattering-links-27aug2014.html?sfvrsn=0

X-ray lab webpage: 
http://www.oumedicine.com/department-of-biochemistry-and-molecular-biology/department-facilities/macromolecular-crystallography-laboratory



From: CCP4 bulletin board [CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] on behalf of George Reeke 
[re...@mail.rockefeller.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 10:17 AM
To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

Dear Randy et al,
May I suggest Lyx, an open-source wysiwyg editor that outputs
Latex.  The interface is so much like other word processors that
it is a snap to learn quickly and you get those Latex files with
equations that journals, at least math and physics journals, like.
Maybe you could get your colleagues to try it--I did even though
I was sure I didn't want to learn Latex.  I use it in Linux,
where you do one of those configure-make-install-from-source-
code installs.  Here is the online info for using it on a mac:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__wiki.lyx.org_Mac_Mac&d=AwIFaQ&c=qRnFByZajCb3ogDwk-HidsbrxD-31vTsTBEIa6TCCEk&r=39ovrj_9gtbpqLqHj52qObHez22uGBx1oHrj21rIdII&m=LcTP6vjD81n8gdU8pO7MO0O_G5V4cd6IYIjH5HR5LAQ&s=ZKNr8DjE1hiSYE6bjdgorDpAUWU_3gUFfRH9urzCZxI&e=
George Reeke

On Mon, 2015-05-18 at 09:10 +0100, Randy Read wrote:
> Rather off-topic, but maybe someone on the list has found a way to work 
> around this!
>
> There’s a problem with the Equation Editor in Office 2011 for Mac (i.e. the 
> one that is based on a stripped-down version of MathType, which you get with 
> Insert->Object->Microsoft Equation).  You can insert an equation, re-open it 
> and edit it several times, and then suddenly (and seemingly randomly) the 
> equation object will be replaced by a picture showing the equation, which can 
> no longer be edited.  I’m writing a rather equation-heavy paper at the 
> moment, and this is driving me crazy.
>
> This seems to be a known bug, which has existed from the release of Office 
> 2011.  Apparently it happens, unpredictably, when an AutoSave copy of the 
> document is saved, so you can avoid it by turning off the AutoSave feature.  
> The last time this drove me crazy, several years ago, I did try turning off 
> AutoSave.  For a while, I was very good about manually saving frequently, but 
> I got into bad habits and eventually Word crashed after I had worked for 
> several hours on a grant proposal without manually saving.  So I turned 
> AutoSave back on.
>
> At the moment, the least-bad solution seems to be to turn off AutoSave while 
> I’m working on a document with lots of equations and then (hopefully) 
> remember to turn it back on after that document is finished.  But it would be 
> great if someone has come up with a better cure for this problem.
>
> No doubt someone will suggest switching from Word to LaTeX, but I need to be 
> able to collaborate on paper-writing, and even though I might be willing to 
> invest the effort in learning LaTeX, I can’t really expect that of my 
> collaborators.  Most people in our field do use Microsoft Word, regardless 

Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

[Pavel Afonine]

Hi All,

what happened to Randy happened to me several times in the past, with one
most remarkable example being editing the 47 page long text that were
mostly formulas. While most responses so far suggest using latex or flavors
thereof, I for one would still be using MS Word mostly because I find it
impractical to convince collaborators to use something else. The only
solution that works for me so far is being disciplined about this issue by
periodically checking to make sure this trouble did not occur (which is
annoying to say the least!).

All the best,
Pavel

On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 1:10 AM, Randy Read  wrote:

> Rather off-topic, but maybe someone on the list has found a way to work
> around this!
>
> There’s a problem with the Equation Editor in Office 2011 for Mac (i.e.
> the one that is based on a stripped-down version of MathType, which you get
> with Insert->Object->Microsoft Equation).  You can insert an equation,
> re-open it and edit it several times, and then suddenly (and seemingly
> randomly) the equation object will be replaced by a picture showing the
> equation, which can no longer be edited.  I’m writing a rather
> equation-heavy paper at the moment, and this is driving me crazy.
>
> This seems to be a known bug, which has existed from the release of Office
> 2011.  Apparently it happens, unpredictably, when an AutoSave copy of the
> document is saved, so you can avoid it by turning off the AutoSave
> feature.  The last time this drove me crazy, several years ago, I did try
> turning off AutoSave.  For a while, I was very good about manually saving
> frequently, but I got into bad habits and eventually Word crashed after I
> had worked for several hours on a grant proposal without manually saving.
> So I turned AutoSave back on.
>
> At the moment, the least-bad solution seems to be to turn off AutoSave
> while I’m working on a document with lots of equations and then (hopefully)
> remember to turn it back on after that document is finished.  But it would
> be great if someone has come up with a better cure for this problem.
>
> No doubt someone will suggest switching from Word to LaTeX, but I need to
> be able to collaborate on paper-writing, and even though I might be willing
> to invest the effort in learning LaTeX, I can’t really expect that of my
> collaborators.  Most people in our field do use Microsoft Word, regardless
> of its failings.  I’ve also tried using the professional version of
> MathType, but that requires your collaborators to install it as well — and
> I don’t think that cured the equation to picture problem anyway.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -
> Randy J. Read
> Department of Haematology, University of Cambridge
> Cambridge Institute for Medical ResearchTel: +44 1223 336500
> Wellcome Trust/MRC Building Fax: +44 1223 336827
> Hills Road
> E-mail: rj...@cam.ac.uk
> Cambridge CB2 0XY, U.K.
> www-structmed.cimr.cam.ac.uk
>

Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

[George Reeke]

Dear Randy et al,
May I suggest Lyx, an open-source wysiwyg editor that outputs
Latex.  The interface is so much like other word processors that
it is a snap to learn quickly and you get those Latex files with
equations that journals, at least math and physics journals, like.
Maybe you could get your colleagues to try it--I did even though
I was sure I didn't want to learn Latex.  I use it in Linux,
where you do one of those configure-make-install-from-source-
code installs.  Here is the online info for using it on a mac:
http://wiki.lyx.org/Mac/Mac
George Reeke

On Mon, 2015-05-18 at 09:10 +0100, Randy Read wrote:
> Rather off-topic, but maybe someone on the list has found a way to work 
> around this!
> 
> There’s a problem with the Equation Editor in Office 2011 for Mac (i.e. the 
> one that is based on a stripped-down version of MathType, which you get with 
> Insert->Object->Microsoft Equation).  You can insert an equation, re-open it 
> and edit it several times, and then suddenly (and seemingly randomly) the 
> equation object will be replaced by a picture showing the equation, which can 
> no longer be edited.  I’m writing a rather equation-heavy paper at the 
> moment, and this is driving me crazy.
> 
> This seems to be a known bug, which has existed from the release of Office 
> 2011.  Apparently it happens, unpredictably, when an AutoSave copy of the 
> document is saved, so you can avoid it by turning off the AutoSave feature.  
> The last time this drove me crazy, several years ago, I did try turning off 
> AutoSave.  For a while, I was very good about manually saving frequently, but 
> I got into bad habits and eventually Word crashed after I had worked for 
> several hours on a grant proposal without manually saving.  So I turned 
> AutoSave back on.
> 
> At the moment, the least-bad solution seems to be to turn off AutoSave while 
> I’m working on a document with lots of equations and then (hopefully) 
> remember to turn it back on after that document is finished.  But it would be 
> great if someone has come up with a better cure for this problem.
> 
> No doubt someone will suggest switching from Word to LaTeX, but I need to be 
> able to collaborate on paper-writing, and even though I might be willing to 
> invest the effort in learning LaTeX, I can’t really expect that of my 
> collaborators.  Most people in our field do use Microsoft Word, regardless of 
> its failings.  I’ve also tried using the professional version of MathType, 
> but that requires your collaborators to install it as well — and I don’t 
> think that cured the equation to picture problem anyway.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -
> Randy J. Read
> Department of Haematology, University of Cambridge
> Cambridge Institute for Medical ResearchTel: +44 1223 336500
> Wellcome Trust/MRC Building Fax: +44 1223 336827
> Hills RoadE-mail: 
> rj...@cam.ac.uk
> Cambridge CB2 0XY, U.K.   
> www-structmed.cimr.cam.ac.uk

Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

[Ho,Shing]

Of course, if you are working with a .docx instead of a .doc file in Word2011 
for a Mac, you can always simply insert and “Equation” directly, rather than 
the MathType version of Microsoft Equation under the “Insert/Objects” menu. 
This seems to work fairly seamlessly, unless you convert the .docx document 
back to .doc


P. Shing Ho, Ph.D.
Professor & Chair
Biochemistry & Molecular Biology
1870 Campus Delivery
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523-1870
970-491-0569 (phone)


From: Murpholino Peligro mailto:murpholi...@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: Murpholino Peligro 
mailto:murpholi...@gmail.com>>
Date: Monday, May 18, 2015 at 12:12 PM
To: "CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK<mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK>" 
mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK>>
Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

sharelatex makes them learn latex, because they can see the output and the 
input...
also they can play with lots of examples

2015-05-18 9:57 GMT-05:00 Thomas, Jens 
mailto:jens.tho...@liverpool.ac.uk>>:
Hi Randy,

It's not ideal, but until the bug gets fixed or there's a more elegant 
solution, could you just set up your own autosave?

It'd mean opening a terminal and running a command before starting, but if you 
had a little script like the below running while you were working you'd at 
least ensure you wouldn't lose too much work if something crashed:

#!/bin/bash
[[ $# -ne 1 ]] && echo "Usage: $0 " && exit 1
while true;
do
cp $1 ${1}.bak
sleep 60
done


Best wishes,

Jens


From: CCP4 bulletin board [CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK<mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK>] 
on behalf of Randy Read [rj...@cam.ac.uk<mailto:rj...@cam.ac.uk>]
Sent: 18 May 2015 09:10
To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK<mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK>
Subject: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

Rather off-topic, but maybe someone on the list has found a way to work around 
this!

There’s a problem with the Equation Editor in Office 2011 for Mac (i.e. the one 
that is based on a stripped-down version of MathType, which you get with 
Insert->Object->Microsoft Equation).  You can insert an equation, re-open it 
and edit it several times, and then suddenly (and seemingly randomly) the 
equation object will be replaced by a picture showing the equation, which can 
no longer be edited.  I’m writing a rather equation-heavy paper at the moment, 
and this is driving me crazy.

This seems to be a known bug, which has existed from the release of Office 
2011.  Apparently it happens, unpredictably, when an AutoSave copy of the 
document is saved, so you can avoid it by turning off the AutoSave feature.  
The last time this drove me crazy, several years ago, I did try turning off 
AutoSave.  For a while, I was very good about manually saving frequently, but I 
got into bad habits and eventually Word crashed after I had worked for several 
hours on a grant proposal without manually saving.  So I turned AutoSave back 
on.

At the moment, the least-bad solution seems to be to turn off AutoSave while 
I’m working on a document with lots of equations and then (hopefully) remember 
to turn it back on after that document is finished.  But it would be great if 
someone has come up with a better cure for this problem.

No doubt someone will suggest switching from Word to LaTeX, but I need to be 
able to collaborate on paper-writing, and even though I might be willing to 
invest the effort in learning LaTeX, I can’t really expect that of my 
collaborators.  Most people in our field do use Microsoft Word, regardless of 
its failings.  I’ve also tried using the professional version of MathType, but 
that requires your collaborators to install it as well — and I don’t think that 
cured the equation to picture problem anyway.

Thanks!

-
Randy J. Read
Department of Haematology, University of Cambridge
Cambridge Institute for Medical ResearchTel: +44 1223 336500
Wellcome Trust/MRC Building Fax: +44 1223 336827
Hills RoadE-mail: 
rj...@cam.ac.uk<mailto:rj...@cam.ac.uk>
Cambridge CB2 0XY, U.K.   
www-structmed.cimr.cam.ac.uk<http://www-structmed.cimr.cam.ac.uk>

Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

[Murpholino Peligro]

sharelatex makes them learn latex, because they can see the output and
the input...
also they can play with lots of examples

2015-05-18 9:57 GMT-05:00 Thomas, Jens :

> Hi Randy,
>
> It's not ideal, but until the bug gets fixed or there's a more elegant
> solution, could you just set up your own autosave?
>
> It'd mean opening a terminal and running a command before starting, but if
> you had a little script like the below running while you were working you'd
> at least ensure you wouldn't lose too much work if something crashed:
>
> #!/bin/bash
> [[ $# -ne 1 ]] && echo "Usage: $0 " && exit 1
> while true;
> do
> cp $1 ${1}.bak
> sleep 60
> done
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jens
>
> 
> From: CCP4 bulletin board [CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] on behalf of Randy Read
> [rj...@cam.ac.uk]
> Sent: 18 May 2015 09:10
> To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac
>
> Rather off-topic, but maybe someone on the list has found a way to work
> around this!
>
> There’s a problem with the Equation Editor in Office 2011 for Mac (i.e.
> the one that is based on a stripped-down version of MathType, which you get
> with Insert->Object->Microsoft Equation).  You can insert an equation,
> re-open it and edit it several times, and then suddenly (and seemingly
> randomly) the equation object will be replaced by a picture showing the
> equation, which can no longer be edited.  I’m writing a rather
> equation-heavy paper at the moment, and this is driving me crazy.
>
> This seems to be a known bug, which has existed from the release of Office
> 2011.  Apparently it happens, unpredictably, when an AutoSave copy of the
> document is saved, so you can avoid it by turning off the AutoSave
> feature.  The last time this drove me crazy, several years ago, I did try
> turning off AutoSave.  For a while, I was very good about manually saving
> frequently, but I got into bad habits and eventually Word crashed after I
> had worked for several hours on a grant proposal without manually saving.
> So I turned AutoSave back on.
>
> At the moment, the least-bad solution seems to be to turn off AutoSave
> while I’m working on a document with lots of equations and then (hopefully)
> remember to turn it back on after that document is finished.  But it would
> be great if someone has come up with a better cure for this problem.
>
> No doubt someone will suggest switching from Word to LaTeX, but I need to
> be able to collaborate on paper-writing, and even though I might be willing
> to invest the effort in learning LaTeX, I can’t really expect that of my
> collaborators.  Most people in our field do use Microsoft Word, regardless
> of its failings.  I’ve also tried using the professional version of
> MathType, but that requires your collaborators to install it as well — and
> I don’t think that cured the equation to picture problem anyway.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -
> Randy J. Read
> Department of Haematology, University of Cambridge
> Cambridge Institute for Medical ResearchTel: +44 1223 336500
> Wellcome Trust/MRC Building Fax: +44 1223 336827
> Hills Road
> E-mail: rj...@cam.ac.uk
> Cambridge CB2 0XY, U.K.
> www-structmed.cimr.cam.ac.uk
>

Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

[Thomas, Jens]

Hi Randy,

It's not ideal, but until the bug gets fixed or there's a more elegant 
solution, could you just set up your own autosave?

It'd mean opening a terminal and running a command before starting, but if you 
had a little script like the below running while you were working you'd at 
least ensure you wouldn't lose too much work if something crashed:

#!/bin/bash
[[ $# -ne 1 ]] && echo "Usage: $0 " && exit 1
while true;
do
cp $1 ${1}.bak
sleep 60
done


Best wishes,

Jens


From: CCP4 bulletin board [CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] on behalf of Randy Read 
[rj...@cam.ac.uk]
Sent: 18 May 2015 09:10
To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

Rather off-topic, but maybe someone on the list has found a way to work around 
this!

There’s a problem with the Equation Editor in Office 2011 for Mac (i.e. the one 
that is based on a stripped-down version of MathType, which you get with 
Insert->Object->Microsoft Equation).  You can insert an equation, re-open it 
and edit it several times, and then suddenly (and seemingly randomly) the 
equation object will be replaced by a picture showing the equation, which can 
no longer be edited.  I’m writing a rather equation-heavy paper at the moment, 
and this is driving me crazy.

This seems to be a known bug, which has existed from the release of Office 
2011.  Apparently it happens, unpredictably, when an AutoSave copy of the 
document is saved, so you can avoid it by turning off the AutoSave feature.  
The last time this drove me crazy, several years ago, I did try turning off 
AutoSave.  For a while, I was very good about manually saving frequently, but I 
got into bad habits and eventually Word crashed after I had worked for several 
hours on a grant proposal without manually saving.  So I turned AutoSave back 
on.

At the moment, the least-bad solution seems to be to turn off AutoSave while 
I’m working on a document with lots of equations and then (hopefully) remember 
to turn it back on after that document is finished.  But it would be great if 
someone has come up with a better cure for this problem.

No doubt someone will suggest switching from Word to LaTeX, but I need to be 
able to collaborate on paper-writing, and even though I might be willing to 
invest the effort in learning LaTeX, I can’t really expect that of my 
collaborators.  Most people in our field do use Microsoft Word, regardless of 
its failings.  I’ve also tried using the professional version of MathType, but 
that requires your collaborators to install it as well — and I don’t think that 
cured the equation to picture problem anyway.

Thanks!

-
Randy J. Read
Department of Haematology, University of Cambridge
Cambridge Institute for Medical ResearchTel: +44 1223 336500
Wellcome Trust/MRC Building Fax: +44 1223 336827
Hills RoadE-mail: 
rj...@cam.ac.uk
Cambridge CB2 0XY, U.K.   
www-structmed.cimr.cam.ac.uk

Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

[Mooers, Blaine H.M. (HSC)]

Hi Randy,

I too suggest LaTeXiT. To add to what has already been suggested, LaTeXiT 
allows the assembly of a custom library of equations. You can send your 
collaborators this library as a file, and they could make minor edits to the 
equations in LaTexit gui editor without having to learn the full syntax of 
LaTeX. Minor edits would be self-explanatory to implement. Then they could 
export the edited equations for insertion into the current draft in MS Word. If 
they can't install LaTeXiT, you can send them the equations in the LaTeX format 
in a plain text file, and they could edit the equations in the LaTeXiT syntax, 
which can be deduced by comparing the syntax to the final equation. They could 
then return the edited plain text file to you for you to copy and paste into 
LaTeXiT.  If that is too hard for them, they could always write out the edited 
equation on paper with a pen or pencil, scan it into a pdf, and e-mail it back 
to you for typesetting in LaTeXiT. 

An alternative would be to move the document into RMarkdown via RStudio (a gui 
interface to R) which is much easier to master than LaTeX while still having 
access to the LaTeX equation syntax. This document can be quickly converted (by 
"knitting") to doc, pdf and html within the RStudio gui. The exported document 
might require additional editing if the conversion does not go well. If you are 
using ENDNOTE and not BibTeX for managing citations, the workflow may become 
more complicated. 

Best regards,

Blaine

Blaine Mooers, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Director of the Laboratory of Biomolecular Structure and Function
Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center
S.L. Young Biomedical Research Center Rm. 466

Shipping address:
975 NE 10th Street, BRC 466
Oklahoma City, OK 73104-5419

Letter address:
P.O. Box 26901, BRC 466
Oklahoma City, OK 73190

office: (405) 271-8300   lab: (405) 271-8313  fax:  (405) 271-3910
e-mail:  blaine-moo...@ouhsc.edu

Faculty webpage: 
http://www.oumedicine.com/department-of-biochemistry-and-molecular-biology/faculty/blaine-mooers-ph-d-

Small Angle Scattering webpage: 
http://www.oumedicine.com/docs/default-source/ad-biochemistry-workfiles/small-angle-scattering-links-27aug2014.html?sfvrsn=0

X-ray lab webpage: 
http://www.oumedicine.com/department-of-biochemistry-and-molecular-biology/department-facilities/macromolecular-crystallography-laboratory



From: CCP4 bulletin board [CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] on behalf of Randy Read 
[rj...@cam.ac.uk]
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 3:10 AM
To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

Rather off-topic, but maybe someone on the list has found a way to work around 
this!

There’s a problem with the Equation Editor in Office 2011 for Mac (i.e. the one 
that is based on a stripped-down version of MathType, which you get with 
Insert->Object->Microsoft Equation).  You can insert an equation, re-open it 
and edit it several times, and then suddenly (and seemingly randomly) the 
equation object will be replaced by a picture showing the equation, which can 
no longer be edited.  I’m writing a rather equation-heavy paper at the moment, 
and this is driving me crazy.

This seems to be a known bug, which has existed from the release of Office 
2011.  Apparently it happens, unpredictably, when an AutoSave copy of the 
document is saved, so you can avoid it by turning off the AutoSave feature.  
The last time this drove me crazy, several years ago, I did try turning off 
AutoSave.  For a while, I was very good about manually saving frequently, but I 
got into bad habits and eventually Word crashed after I had worked for several 
hours on a grant proposal without manually saving.  So I turned AutoSave back 
on.

At the moment, the least-bad solution seems to be to turn off AutoSave while 
I’m working on a document with lots of equations and then (hopefully) remember 
to turn it back on after that document is finished.  But it would be great if 
someone has come up with a better cure for this problem.

No doubt someone will suggest switching from Word to LaTeX, but I need to be 
able to collaborate on paper-writing, and even though I might be willing to 
invest the effort in learning LaTeX, I can’t really expect that of my 
collaborators.  Most people in our field do use Microsoft Word, regardless of 
its failings.  I’ve also tried using the professional version of MathType, but 
that requires your collaborators to install it as well — and I don’t think that 
cured the equation to picture problem anyway.

Thanks!

-
Randy J. Read
Department of Haematology, University of Cambridge
Cambridge Institute for Medical ResearchTel: +44 1223 336500
Wellcome Trust/MRC Building Fax: +44 1223 336827
Hills RoadE-mail: 
rj...@cam.ac.uk
C

Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

[William G. Scott]

> On May 18, 2015, at 4:31 AM, Nicolas Soler  wrote:
> 
> You just have to learn the (easy) equation syntax 

or just use this:

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/18172/tex-fog




William G. Scott

http://scottlab.ucsc.edu/~wgscott

Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

[Nicolas Soler]

Hi Randy, although learning Latex as a whole can for sure be 
time-consuming, an alternative solution is to use a Latex equation 
editor like Latexit. You just have to learn the (easy) equation syntax  
and then you can drag and drop the formatted result into Word or Page, 
it's rock solid :


http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/17889/latexit

Hope that helps,

Nicolas

Le 18/05/15 09:10, Randy Read a écrit :

Rather off-topic, but maybe someone on the list has found a way to work around 
this!

There’s a problem with the Equation Editor in Office 2011 for Mac (i.e. the one that 
is based on a stripped-down version of MathType, which you get with 
Insert->Object->Microsoft Equation).  You can insert an equation, re-open it 
and edit it several times, and then suddenly (and seemingly randomly) the equation 
object will be replaced by a picture showing the equation, which can no longer be 
edited.  I’m writing a rather equation-heavy paper at the moment, and this is driving 
me crazy.

This seems to be a known bug, which has existed from the release of Office 
2011.  Apparently it happens, unpredictably, when an AutoSave copy of the 
document is saved, so you can avoid it by turning off the AutoSave feature.  
The last time this drove me crazy, several years ago, I did try turning off 
AutoSave.  For a while, I was very good about manually saving frequently, but I 
got into bad habits and eventually Word crashed after I had worked for several 
hours on a grant proposal without manually saving.  So I turned AutoSave back 
on.

At the moment, the least-bad solution seems to be to turn off AutoSave while 
I’m working on a document with lots of equations and then (hopefully) remember 
to turn it back on after that document is finished.  But it would be great if 
someone has come up with a better cure for this problem.

No doubt someone will suggest switching from Word to LaTeX, but I need to be 
able to collaborate on paper-writing, and even though I might be willing to 
invest the effort in learning LaTeX, I can’t really expect that of my 
collaborators.  Most people in our field do use Microsoft Word, regardless of 
its failings.  I’ve also tried using the professional version of MathType, but 
that requires your collaborators to install it as well — and I don’t think that 
cured the equation to picture problem anyway.

Thanks!

-
Randy J. Read
Department of Haematology, University of Cambridge
Cambridge Institute for Medical ResearchTel: +44 1223 336500
Wellcome Trust/MRC Building Fax: +44 1223 336827
Hills RoadE-mail: 
rj...@cam.ac.uk
Cambridge CB2 0XY, U.K.   
www-structmed.cimr.cam.ac.uk



--
Nicolas Soler
Roger Williams group, PNAC
MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology
Francis Crick Avenue
Cambridge CB2 0QH
United Kingdom
phone : +44(0) 1223 26 76 20
mail : nso...@mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk

Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

[Jonathan Davies]

Do your collaborators need to edit the equations? If not you can use 
LaTeXiT (sorry I'm that person!) which allows you to write your equation 
in LaTeX then export directly into word as a pdf. Link below..


http://www.chachatelier.fr/latexit/

Regards,
Jonathan Davies


PhD Student
Department of Biology and Biochemistry
University of Bath


On 18/05/15 09:10, Randy Read wrote:

Rather off-topic, but maybe someone on the list has found a way to work around 
this!

There’s a problem with the Equation Editor in Office 2011 for Mac (i.e. the one that 
is based on a stripped-down version of MathType, which you get with 
Insert->Object->Microsoft Equation).  You can insert an equation, re-open it 
and edit it several times, and then suddenly (and seemingly randomly) the equation 
object will be replaced by a picture showing the equation, which can no longer be 
edited.  I’m writing a rather equation-heavy paper at the moment, and this is driving 
me crazy.

This seems to be a known bug, which has existed from the release of Office 
2011.  Apparently it happens, unpredictably, when an AutoSave copy of the 
document is saved, so you can avoid it by turning off the AutoSave feature.  
The last time this drove me crazy, several years ago, I did try turning off 
AutoSave.  For a while, I was very good about manually saving frequently, but I 
got into bad habits and eventually Word crashed after I had worked for several 
hours on a grant proposal without manually saving.  So I turned AutoSave back 
on.

At the moment, the least-bad solution seems to be to turn off AutoSave while 
I’m working on a document with lots of equations and then (hopefully) remember 
to turn it back on after that document is finished.  But it would be great if 
someone has come up with a better cure for this problem.

No doubt someone will suggest switching from Word to LaTeX, but I need to be 
able to collaborate on paper-writing, and even though I might be willing to 
invest the effort in learning LaTeX, I can’t really expect that of my 
collaborators.  Most people in our field do use Microsoft Word, regardless of 
its failings.  I’ve also tried using the professional version of MathType, but 
that requires your collaborators to install it as well — and I don’t think that 
cured the equation to picture problem anyway.

Thanks!

-
Randy J. Read
Department of Haematology, University of Cambridge
Cambridge Institute for Medical ResearchTel: +44 1223 336500
Wellcome Trust/MRC Building Fax: +44 1223 336827
Hills RoadE-mail: 
rj...@cam.ac.uk
Cambridge CB2 0XY, U.K.   
www-structmed.cimr.cam.ac.uk

Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

[Keller, Jacob]

There is the possibility of using one of the open-source versions, like 
openOffice, but those I guess also have their issues.

JPK

-Original Message-
From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of Randy Read
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 4:11 AM
To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

Rather off-topic, but maybe someone on the list has found a way to work around 
this!

There's a problem with the Equation Editor in Office 2011 for Mac (i.e. the one 
that is based on a stripped-down version of MathType, which you get with 
Insert->Object->Microsoft Equation).  You can insert an equation, re-open it 
and edit it several times, and then suddenly (and seemingly randomly) the 
equation object will be replaced by a picture showing the equation, which can 
no longer be edited.  I'm writing a rather equation-heavy paper at the moment, 
and this is driving me crazy.

This seems to be a known bug, which has existed from the release of Office 
2011.  Apparently it happens, unpredictably, when an AutoSave copy of the 
document is saved, so you can avoid it by turning off the AutoSave feature.  
The last time this drove me crazy, several years ago, I did try turning off 
AutoSave.  For a while, I was very good about manually saving frequently, but I 
got into bad habits and eventually Word crashed after I had worked for several 
hours on a grant proposal without manually saving.  So I turned AutoSave back 
on.

At the moment, the least-bad solution seems to be to turn off AutoSave while 
I'm working on a document with lots of equations and then (hopefully) remember 
to turn it back on after that document is finished.  But it would be great if 
someone has come up with a better cure for this problem.

No doubt someone will suggest switching from Word to LaTeX, but I need to be 
able to collaborate on paper-writing, and even though I might be willing to 
invest the effort in learning LaTeX, I can't really expect that of my 
collaborators.  Most people in our field do use Microsoft Word, regardless of 
its failings.  I've also tried using the professional version of MathType, but 
that requires your collaborators to install it as well - and I don't think that 
cured the equation to picture problem anyway.

Thanks!

-
Randy J. Read
Department of Haematology, University of Cambridge
Cambridge Institute for Medical ResearchTel: +44 1223 336500
Wellcome Trust/MRC Building Fax: +44 1223 336827
Hills RoadE-mail: 
rj...@cam.ac.uk
Cambridge CB2 0XY, U.K.   
www-structmed.cimr.cam.ac.uk

Re: [ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

[Martin Montgomery]

Hi Randy,

You could try the beta version of the forthcoming version of Word and see if 
the bug is fixed.  Obviously, it is a beta version and therefore a bit risky 
but it installs along side the current version and I’ve been trying it on my 
laptop without issue so far.  One improvement for me is that this version of 
Word now uses the Mac’s in built special character palette and we use a lot of 
Greek characters.  This works a lot better than symbol browser in the current 
version of Word where we still see some of the greek characters getting screwed 
up when saving as PDF or sharing with a Window’s PC.  One thing to watch is 
that the beta version .docx format has changed so you should be careful to save 
as compatible with Office 2011.


https://products.office.com/en-us/mac/mac-preview 


Regards

MGM


Martin G Montgomery
ATP Synthase Group
MRC Mitochondrial Biology Unit
Wellcome Trust/MRC Building
Cambridge Biomedical Campus
Hills Road 
Cambridge
Great Britain
CB2 0XY

www.mrc-mbu.cam.ac.uk






> On 18 May 2015, at 09:10, Randy Read  wrote:
> 
> Rather off-topic, but maybe someone on the list has found a way to work 
> around this!
> 
> There’s a problem with the Equation Editor in Office 2011 for Mac (i.e. the 
> one that is based on a stripped-down version of MathType, which you get with 
> Insert->Object->Microsoft Equation).  You can insert an equation, re-open it 
> and edit it several times, and then suddenly (and seemingly randomly) the 
> equation object will be replaced by a picture showing the equation, which can 
> no longer be edited.  I’m writing a rather equation-heavy paper at the 
> moment, and this is driving me crazy.
> 
> This seems to be a known bug, which has existed from the release of Office 
> 2011.  Apparently it happens, unpredictably, when an AutoSave copy of the 
> document is saved, so you can avoid it by turning off the AutoSave feature.  
> The last time this drove me crazy, several years ago, I did try turning off 
> AutoSave.  For a while, I was very good about manually saving frequently, but 
> I got into bad habits and eventually Word crashed after I had worked for 
> several hours on a grant proposal without manually saving.  So I turned 
> AutoSave back on.
> 
> At the moment, the least-bad solution seems to be to turn off AutoSave while 
> I’m working on a document with lots of equations and then (hopefully) 
> remember to turn it back on after that document is finished.  But it would be 
> great if someone has come up with a better cure for this problem.
> 
> No doubt someone will suggest switching from Word to LaTeX, but I need to be 
> able to collaborate on paper-writing, and even though I might be willing to 
> invest the effort in learning LaTeX, I can’t really expect that of my 
> collaborators.  Most people in our field do use Microsoft Word, regardless of 
> its failings.  I’ve also tried using the professional version of MathType, 
> but that requires your collaborators to install it as well — and I don’t 
> think that cured the equation to picture problem anyway.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -
> Randy J. Read
> Department of Haematology, University of Cambridge
> Cambridge Institute for Medical ResearchTel: +44 1223 336500
> Wellcome Trust/MRC Building Fax: +44 1223 336827
> Hills RoadE-mail: 
> rj...@cam.ac.uk
> Cambridge CB2 0XY, U.K.   
> www-structmed.cimr.cam.ac.uk

[ccp4bb] Equation Editor woes with Office 2011 for Mac

[Randy Read]

Rather off-topic, but maybe someone on the list has found a way to work around 
this!

There’s a problem with the Equation Editor in Office 2011 for Mac (i.e. the one 
that is based on a stripped-down version of MathType, which you get with 
Insert->Object->Microsoft Equation).  You can insert an equation, re-open it 
and edit it several times, and then suddenly (and seemingly randomly) the 
equation object will be replaced by a picture showing the equation, which can 
no longer be edited.  I’m writing a rather equation-heavy paper at the moment, 
and this is driving me crazy.

This seems to be a known bug, which has existed from the release of Office 
2011.  Apparently it happens, unpredictably, when an AutoSave copy of the 
document is saved, so you can avoid it by turning off the AutoSave feature.  
The last time this drove me crazy, several years ago, I did try turning off 
AutoSave.  For a while, I was very good about manually saving frequently, but I 
got into bad habits and eventually Word crashed after I had worked for several 
hours on a grant proposal without manually saving.  So I turned AutoSave back 
on.

At the moment, the least-bad solution seems to be to turn off AutoSave while 
I’m working on a document with lots of equations and then (hopefully) remember 
to turn it back on after that document is finished.  But it would be great if 
someone has come up with a better cure for this problem.

No doubt someone will suggest switching from Word to LaTeX, but I need to be 
able to collaborate on paper-writing, and even though I might be willing to 
invest the effort in learning LaTeX, I can’t really expect that of my 
collaborators.  Most people in our field do use Microsoft Word, regardless of 
its failings.  I’ve also tried using the professional version of MathType, but 
that requires your collaborators to install it as well — and I don’t think that 
cured the equation to picture problem anyway.

Thanks!

-
Randy J. Read
Department of Haematology, University of Cambridge
Cambridge Institute for Medical ResearchTel: +44 1223 336500
Wellcome Trust/MRC Building Fax: +44 1223 336827
Hills RoadE-mail: 
rj...@cam.ac.uk
Cambridge CB2 0XY, U.K.   
www-structmed.cimr.cam.ac.uk