Re: [ccp4bb] Expanding p4212 coordinates to p1

2012-04-12 Thread Eleanor Dodson
Cad will do this correctly
Reflection utilitied - merge mtz ( rather confusing job title - sorry..)
mtz in - the P4121.mtz data
Output - P41212-ext.mtz

Defne mtz output

Select define limit for refl;action by Laue code select P1

then you will get a list of all P1 reflections with phases correctly
modified.

If you really want to work in P1 you will need to change the space group in
P41212-ext.mtz
Easiest way is
mtzutils hklin1 P4121-ext.mtz hklout P41212-ext-symP1.mtz
SYMM P1
end

DONT change the G of P41212.mtz before doing the extension - the program
needs the P41212 sym ops to change the phases correctly..

If you want the coordinates extended too
use pdbset to get a P1 set of cds..   (Coordinate utilities
Edit pdb
 select pdbset and generate chains by symmetry operators
eleanor
Eleanor





On 12 April 2012 06:51, Henning Stahlberg henning.stahlb...@unibas.chwrote:

 Hi Everybody,

 I am working in a P4212 plane group, which is a p4 symmetric structure
 with a screw axis in addition. My map has in the unit cell two 4-fold
 symmetric structures, one if which is upside-down with respect to the other
 one.   If using expand in sftools, then the resulting map is p4 symmetrized
 in the center between two p4-symmetric structures, which is wrong. This is
 probably the phase origin problem referred to here:
 http://www.ccp4.ac.uk/dist/html/sftools.html#expand

 Would anybody have a suggestion how I can expand the p4212 MTZ file to
 full p1, but with properly respecting the symmetry phase origin?

 My illiterate guess would be to either
 1) shift the phase origin in the p4212 MTZ file by (180.0;0.0); then use
 sftools with expand 1 to create the full reflection sets in p1; then
 shift back by (180.0;0.0);   or
 2) use sftools with the command expand 1, and then modify (invert?) the
 phases of the reflections in the quadrants that have wrong phases.

 In option 1) I am not sure if it is possible to shift phase origin, while
 staying in p4212 symmetry.  How could I do that?
 In option 2) I would probably get into deep water the next time I work
 with another symmetry, like p6212, or p2121, where I would have to deal not
 with quadrants but with triangles of 60deg angle?

 Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

 All the best,

 Henning.

 Henning Stahlberg, PhD
 Prof. for Structural Biology, C-CINA, Biozentrum, University Basel
 Mattenstrasse 26 | D-BSSE | WRO-1058 | CH-4058 Basel | Switzerland
 http://c-cina.org | Tel. +41-61-387 32 62



Re: [ccp4bb] Expanding p4212 coordinates to p1

2012-04-12 Thread Ian Tickle
I didn't realise the CCP4 suite could handle the plane groups: where
are they listed (they're not in symop.lib or syminfo.lib)?  Or are
they doing some clever projections of the space groups?

Cheers

-- Ian

On 12 April 2012 11:48, Eleanor Dodson eleanor.dod...@york.ac.uk wrote:
 Cad will do this correctly
 Reflection utilitied - merge mtz ( rather confusing job title - sorry..)
 mtz in - the P4121.mtz data
 Output - P41212-ext.mtz

 Defne mtz output

 Select define limit for refl;action by Laue code select P1

 then you will get a list of all P1 reflections with phases correctly
 modified.

 If you really want to work in P1 you will need to change the space group in
 P41212-ext.mtz
 Easiest way is
 mtzutils hklin1 P4121-ext.mtz hklout P41212-ext-symP1.mtz
 SYMM P1
 end

 DONT change the G of P41212.mtz before doing the extension - the program
 needs the P41212 sym ops to change the phases correctly..

 If you want the coordinates extended too
 use pdbset to get a P1 set of cds..   (Coordinate utilities
 Edit pdb
  select pdbset and generate chains by symmetry operators
 eleanor
 Eleanor





 On 12 April 2012 06:51, Henning Stahlberg henning.stahlb...@unibas.ch
 wrote:

 Hi Everybody,

 I am working in a P4212 plane group, which is a p4 symmetric structure
 with a screw axis in addition. My map has in the unit cell two 4-fold
 symmetric structures, one if which is upside-down with respect to the other
 one.   If using expand in sftools, then the resulting map is p4 symmetrized
 in the center between two p4-symmetric structures, which is wrong. This is
 probably the phase origin problem referred to here:
 http://www.ccp4.ac.uk/dist/html/sftools.html#expand

 Would anybody have a suggestion how I can expand the p4212 MTZ file to
 full p1, but with properly respecting the symmetry phase origin?

 My illiterate guess would be to either
 1) shift the phase origin in the p4212 MTZ file by (180.0;0.0); then use
 sftools with expand 1 to create the full reflection sets in p1; then shift
 back by (180.0;0.0);   or
 2) use sftools with the command expand 1, and then modify (invert?) the
 phases of the reflections in the quadrants that have wrong phases.

 In option 1) I am not sure if it is possible to shift phase origin, while
 staying in p4212 symmetry.  How could I do that?
 In option 2) I would probably get into deep water the next time I work
 with another symmetry, like p6212, or p2121, where I would have to deal not
 with quadrants but with triangles of 60deg angle?

 Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

 All the best,

 Henning.

 Henning Stahlberg, PhD
 Prof. for Structural Biology, C-CINA, Biozentrum, University Basel
 Mattenstrasse 26 | D-BSSE | WRO-1058 | CH-4058 Basel | Switzerland
 http://c-cina.org | Tel. +41-61-387 32 62




Re: [ccp4bb] Expanding p4212 coordinates to p1

2012-04-12 Thread Eleanor Dodson
Apologies - I didn't notice the plane group..
Although I think if the sym ops are correctly listed in the P4121 file they
will just be applied as given..
Eleanor

On 12 April 2012 11:58, Ian Tickle ianj...@gmail.com wrote:

 I didn't realise the CCP4 suite could handle the plane groups: where
 are they listed (they're not in symop.lib or syminfo.lib)?  Or are
 they doing some clever projections of the space groups?

 Cheers

 -- Ian

 On 12 April 2012 11:48, Eleanor Dodson eleanor.dod...@york.ac.uk wrote:
  Cad will do this correctly
  Reflection utilitied - merge mtz ( rather confusing job title - sorry..)
  mtz in - the P4121.mtz data
  Output - P41212-ext.mtz
 
  Defne mtz output
 
  Select define limit for refl;action by Laue code select P1
 
  then you will get a list of all P1 reflections with phases correctly
  modified.
 
  If you really want to work in P1 you will need to change the space group
 in
  P41212-ext.mtz
  Easiest way is
  mtzutils hklin1 P4121-ext.mtz hklout P41212-ext-symP1.mtz
  SYMM P1
  end
 
  DONT change the G of P41212.mtz before doing the extension - the program
  needs the P41212 sym ops to change the phases correctly..
 
  If you want the coordinates extended too
  use pdbset to get a P1 set of cds..   (Coordinate utilities
  Edit pdb
   select pdbset and generate chains by symmetry operators
  eleanor
  Eleanor
 
 
 
 
 
  On 12 April 2012 06:51, Henning Stahlberg henning.stahlb...@unibas.ch
  wrote:
 
  Hi Everybody,
 
  I am working in a P4212 plane group, which is a p4 symmetric structure
  with a screw axis in addition. My map has in the unit cell two 4-fold
  symmetric structures, one if which is upside-down with respect to the
 other
  one.   If using expand in sftools, then the resulting map is p4
 symmetrized
  in the center between two p4-symmetric structures, which is wrong. This
 is
  probably the phase origin problem referred to here:
  http://www.ccp4.ac.uk/dist/html/sftools.html#expand
 
  Would anybody have a suggestion how I can expand the p4212 MTZ file to
  full p1, but with properly respecting the symmetry phase origin?
 
  My illiterate guess would be to either
  1) shift the phase origin in the p4212 MTZ file by (180.0;0.0); then use
  sftools with expand 1 to create the full reflection sets in p1; then
 shift
  back by (180.0;0.0);   or
  2) use sftools with the command expand 1, and then modify (invert?)
 the
  phases of the reflections in the quadrants that have wrong phases.
 
  In option 1) I am not sure if it is possible to shift phase origin,
 while
  staying in p4212 symmetry.  How could I do that?
  In option 2) I would probably get into deep water the next time I work
  with another symmetry, like p6212, or p2121, where I would have to deal
 not
  with quadrants but with triangles of 60deg angle?
 
  Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.
 
  All the best,
 
  Henning.
 
  Henning Stahlberg, PhD
  Prof. for Structural Biology, C-CINA, Biozentrum, University Basel
  Mattenstrasse 26 | D-BSSE | WRO-1058 | CH-4058 Basel | Switzerland
  http://c-cina.org | Tel. +41-61-387 32 62
 
 



Re: [ccp4bb] Expanding p4212 coordinates to p1

2012-04-12 Thread Ian Tickle
'echo symm x,y | cad' gives:

 Data line--- symm x,y

 **SYMMETRY OPERATOR ERROR**

 Error in interpreting symop X,Y

I.

On 12 April 2012 12:03, Eleanor Dodson eleanor.dod...@york.ac.uk wrote:
 Apologies - I didn't notice the plane group..
 Although I think if the sym ops are correctly listed in the P4121 file they
 will just be applied as given..
 Eleanor


 On 12 April 2012 11:58, Ian Tickle ianj...@gmail.com wrote:

 I didn't realise the CCP4 suite could handle the plane groups: where
 are they listed (they're not in symop.lib or syminfo.lib)?  Or are
 they doing some clever projections of the space groups?

 Cheers

 -- Ian

 On 12 April 2012 11:48, Eleanor Dodson eleanor.dod...@york.ac.uk wrote:
  Cad will do this correctly
  Reflection utilitied - merge mtz ( rather confusing job title - sorry..)
  mtz in - the P4121.mtz data
  Output - P41212-ext.mtz
 
  Defne mtz output
 
  Select define limit for refl;action by Laue code select P1
 
  then you will get a list of all P1 reflections with phases correctly
  modified.
 
  If you really want to work in P1 you will need to change the space group
  in
  P41212-ext.mtz
  Easiest way is
  mtzutils hklin1 P4121-ext.mtz hklout P41212-ext-symP1.mtz
  SYMM P1
  end
 
  DONT change the G of P41212.mtz before doing the extension - the program
  needs the P41212 sym ops to change the phases correctly..
 
  If you want the coordinates extended too
  use pdbset to get a P1 set of cds..   (Coordinate utilities
  Edit pdb
   select pdbset and generate chains by symmetry operators
  eleanor
  Eleanor
 
 
 
 
 
  On 12 April 2012 06:51, Henning Stahlberg henning.stahlb...@unibas.ch
  wrote:
 
  Hi Everybody,
 
  I am working in a P4212 plane group, which is a p4 symmetric structure
  with a screw axis in addition. My map has in the unit cell two 4-fold
  symmetric structures, one if which is upside-down with respect to the
  other
  one.   If using expand in sftools, then the resulting map is p4
  symmetrized
  in the center between two p4-symmetric structures, which is wrong. This
  is
  probably the phase origin problem referred to here:
  http://www.ccp4.ac.uk/dist/html/sftools.html#expand
 
  Would anybody have a suggestion how I can expand the p4212 MTZ file to
  full p1, but with properly respecting the symmetry phase origin?
 
  My illiterate guess would be to either
  1) shift the phase origin in the p4212 MTZ file by (180.0;0.0); then
  use
  sftools with expand 1 to create the full reflection sets in p1; then
  shift
  back by (180.0;0.0);   or
  2) use sftools with the command expand 1, and then modify (invert?)
  the
  phases of the reflections in the quadrants that have wrong phases.
 
  In option 1) I am not sure if it is possible to shift phase origin,
  while
  staying in p4212 symmetry.  How could I do that?
  In option 2) I would probably get into deep water the next time I work
  with another symmetry, like p6212, or p2121, where I would have to deal
  not
  with quadrants but with triangles of 60deg angle?
 
  Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.
 
  All the best,
 
  Henning.
 
  Henning Stahlberg, PhD
  Prof. for Structural Biology, C-CINA, Biozentrum, University Basel
  Mattenstrasse 26 | D-BSSE | WRO-1058 | CH-4058 Basel | Switzerland
  http://c-cina.org | Tel. +41-61-387 32 62
 
 




Re: [ccp4bb] Expanding p4212 coordinates to p1

2012-04-12 Thread Ian Tickle
On 2nd thoughts I guess you could do it in a space group that's a
supergroup of the plane group say with all l and all z = 0.  Then you
could use symm x,y,z and it would just ignore the z components (I
think?).

I.

On 12 April 2012 12:11, Ian Tickle ianj...@gmail.com wrote:
 'echo symm x,y | cad' gives:

  Data line--- symm x,y

  **SYMMETRY OPERATOR ERROR**

  Error in interpreting symop X,Y

 I.

 On 12 April 2012 12:03, Eleanor Dodson eleanor.dod...@york.ac.uk wrote:
 Apologies - I didn't notice the plane group..
 Although I think if the sym ops are correctly listed in the P4121 file they
 will just be applied as given..
 Eleanor


 On 12 April 2012 11:58, Ian Tickle ianj...@gmail.com wrote:

 I didn't realise the CCP4 suite could handle the plane groups: where
 are they listed (they're not in symop.lib or syminfo.lib)?  Or are
 they doing some clever projections of the space groups?

 Cheers

 -- Ian

 On 12 April 2012 11:48, Eleanor Dodson eleanor.dod...@york.ac.uk wrote:
  Cad will do this correctly
  Reflection utilitied - merge mtz ( rather confusing job title - sorry..)
  mtz in - the P4121.mtz data
  Output - P41212-ext.mtz
 
  Defne mtz output
 
  Select define limit for refl;action by Laue code select P1
 
  then you will get a list of all P1 reflections with phases correctly
  modified.
 
  If you really want to work in P1 you will need to change the space group
  in
  P41212-ext.mtz
  Easiest way is
  mtzutils hklin1 P4121-ext.mtz hklout P41212-ext-symP1.mtz
  SYMM P1
  end
 
  DONT change the G of P41212.mtz before doing the extension - the program
  needs the P41212 sym ops to change the phases correctly..
 
  If you want the coordinates extended too
  use pdbset to get a P1 set of cds..   (Coordinate utilities
  Edit pdb
   select pdbset and generate chains by symmetry operators
  eleanor
  Eleanor
 
 
 
 
 
  On 12 April 2012 06:51, Henning Stahlberg henning.stahlb...@unibas.ch
  wrote:
 
  Hi Everybody,
 
  I am working in a P4212 plane group, which is a p4 symmetric structure
  with a screw axis in addition. My map has in the unit cell two 4-fold
  symmetric structures, one if which is upside-down with respect to the
  other
  one.   If using expand in sftools, then the resulting map is p4
  symmetrized
  in the center between two p4-symmetric structures, which is wrong. This
  is
  probably the phase origin problem referred to here:
  http://www.ccp4.ac.uk/dist/html/sftools.html#expand
 
  Would anybody have a suggestion how I can expand the p4212 MTZ file to
  full p1, but with properly respecting the symmetry phase origin?
 
  My illiterate guess would be to either
  1) shift the phase origin in the p4212 MTZ file by (180.0;0.0); then
  use
  sftools with expand 1 to create the full reflection sets in p1; then
  shift
  back by (180.0;0.0);   or
  2) use sftools with the command expand 1, and then modify (invert?)
  the
  phases of the reflections in the quadrants that have wrong phases.
 
  In option 1) I am not sure if it is possible to shift phase origin,
  while
  staying in p4212 symmetry.  How could I do that?
  In option 2) I would probably get into deep water the next time I work
  with another symmetry, like p6212, or p2121, where I would have to deal
  not
  with quadrants but with triangles of 60deg angle?
 
  Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.
 
  All the best,
 
  Henning.
 
  Henning Stahlberg, PhD
  Prof. for Structural Biology, C-CINA, Biozentrum, University Basel
  Mattenstrasse 26 | D-BSSE | WRO-1058 | CH-4058 Basel | Switzerland
  http://c-cina.org | Tel. +41-61-387 32 62
 
 




Re: [ccp4bb] Expanding p4212 coordinates to p1

2012-04-12 Thread Bart Hazes


  
  
I am confused by the discussion on this message. Although it says
plane group I assume it really is a normal 3D tetragonal space
group, P42(1)2

So Eleanor's suggestion should work and sftools expand command will
do the job as well.

Bart

On 12-04-12 05:03 AM, Eleanor Dodson wrote:
Apologies - I didn't notice the plane group..
  Although I think if the sym ops are correctly listed in the
P4121 file they will just be applied as given..
  Eleanor

On 12 April 2012 11:58, Ian Tickle ianj...@gmail.com
  wrote:
  I didn't realise the CCP4 suite could
handle the plane groups: where
are they listed (they're not in symop.lib or syminfo.lib)?
Or are
they doing some clever projections of the space groups?

Cheers

-- Ian
  

  
On 12 April 2012 11:48, Eleanor Dodson eleanor.dod...@york.ac.uk
wrote:
 Cad will do this correctly
 Reflection utilitied - merge mtz ( rather confusing
job title - sorry..)
 mtz in - the P4121.mtz data
 Output - P41212-ext.mtz

 Defne mtz output

 Select define limit for refl;action by Laue code
select P1

 then you will get a list of all P1 reflections with
phases correctly
 modified.

 If you really want to work in P1 you will need to
change the space group in
 P41212-ext.mtz
 Easiest way is
 mtzutils hklin1 P4121-ext.mtz hklout
P41212-ext-symP1.mtz
 SYMM P1
 end

 DONT change the G of P41212.mtz before doing the
extension - the program
 needs the P41212 sym ops to change the phases
correctly..

 If you want the coordinates extended too
 use pdbset to get a P1 set of cds..  (Coordinate
utilities
 Edit pdb
 select pdbset and "generate chains by symmetry
operators"
 eleanor
 Eleanor





 On 12 April 2012 06:51, Henning Stahlberg henning.stahlb...@unibas.ch
 wrote:

 Hi Everybody,

 I am working in a P4212 plane group, which is a
p4 symmetric structure
 with a screw axis in addition. My map has in
the unit cell two 4-fold
 symmetric structures, one if which is
upside-down with respect to the other
 one.  If using expand in sftools, then the
resulting map is p4 symmetrized
 in the center between two p4-symmetric
structures, which is wrong. This is
 probably the phase origin problem referred to
here:
 http://www.ccp4.ac.uk/dist/html/sftools.html#expand

 Would anybody have a suggestion how I can
expand the p4212 MTZ file to
 full p1, but with properly respecting the
symmetry phase origin?

 My illiterate guess would be to either
 1) shift the phase origin in the p4212 MTZ file
by (180.0;0.0); then use
 sftools with "expand 1" to create the full
reflection sets in p1; then shift
 back by (180.0;0.0);  or
 2) use sftools with the command "expand 1", and
then modify (invert?) the
 phases of the reflections in the quadrants that
have wrong phases.

 In option 1) I am not sure if it is possible to
shift phase origin, while
 staying in p4212 symmetry. How could I do
that?
 In option 2) I would probably get into deep
water the next time I work
 with another symmetry, like p6212, or p2121,
where I would have to deal not
 with quadrants but with triangles of 60deg
angle?

 Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

 All the best,

 Henning.

 Henning Stahlberg, PhD
 Prof. for Structural Biology, C-CINA,

Re: [ccp4bb] Expanding p4212 coordinates to p1

2012-04-12 Thread Ian Tickle
Yes I was also confused by the fact that P4212 is obviously a space
group (upper case 'P') whereas p4 and p1 are plane groups (lower case
'p'), as stated.  Not sure what 'p2121' is though, I assumed it was
somehow related to the p2gg plane group (no 8).  Also there's no plane
group 'p6212', but then there's no space group 'P6212' either.

Perhaps the original poster could clarify and take care with his P's and p's?

Cheers

-- Ian

On 12 April 2012 16:51, Bart Hazes bha...@ualberta.ca wrote:
 I am confused by the discussion on this message. Although it says plane
 group I assume it really is a normal 3D tetragonal space group, P42(1)2

 So Eleanor's suggestion should work and sftools expand command will do the
 job as well.

 Bart


 On 12-04-12 05:03 AM, Eleanor Dodson wrote:

 Apologies - I didn't notice the plane group..
 Although I think if the sym ops are correctly listed in the P4121 file they
 will just be applied as given..
 Eleanor

 On 12 April 2012 11:58, Ian Tickle ianj...@gmail.com wrote:

 I didn't realise the CCP4 suite could handle the plane groups: where
 are they listed (they're not in symop.lib or syminfo.lib)?  Or are
 they doing some clever projections of the space groups?

 Cheers

 -- Ian

 On 12 April 2012 11:48, Eleanor Dodson eleanor.dod...@york.ac.uk wrote:
  Cad will do this correctly
  Reflection utilitied - merge mtz ( rather confusing job title - sorry..)
  mtz in - the P4121.mtz data
  Output - P41212-ext.mtz
 
  Defne mtz output
 
  Select define limit for refl;action by Laue code select P1
 
  then you will get a list of all P1 reflections with phases correctly
  modified.
 
  If you really want to work in P1 you will need to change the space group
  in
  P41212-ext.mtz
  Easiest way is
  mtzutils hklin1 P4121-ext.mtz hklout P41212-ext-symP1.mtz
  SYMM P1
  end
 
  DONT change the G of P41212.mtz before doing the extension - the program
  needs the P41212 sym ops to change the phases correctly..
 
  If you want the coordinates extended too
  use pdbset to get a P1 set of cds..   (Coordinate utilities
  Edit pdb
   select pdbset and generate chains by symmetry operators
  eleanor
  Eleanor
 
 
 
 
 
  On 12 April 2012 06:51, Henning Stahlberg henning.stahlb...@unibas.ch
  wrote:
 
  Hi Everybody,
 
  I am working in a P4212 plane group, which is a p4 symmetric structure
  with a screw axis in addition. My map has in the unit cell two 4-fold
  symmetric structures, one if which is upside-down with respect to the
  other
  one.   If using expand in sftools, then the resulting map is p4
  symmetrized
  in the center between two p4-symmetric structures, which is wrong. This
  is
  probably the phase origin problem referred to here:
  http://www.ccp4.ac.uk/dist/html/sftools.html#expand
 
  Would anybody have a suggestion how I can expand the p4212 MTZ file to
  full p1, but with properly respecting the symmetry phase origin?
 
  My illiterate guess would be to either
  1) shift the phase origin in the p4212 MTZ file by (180.0;0.0); then
  use
  sftools with expand 1 to create the full reflection sets in p1; then
  shift
  back by (180.0;0.0);   or
  2) use sftools with the command expand 1, and then modify (invert?)
  the
  phases of the reflections in the quadrants that have wrong phases.
 
  In option 1) I am not sure if it is possible to shift phase origin,
  while
  staying in p4212 symmetry.  How could I do that?
  In option 2) I would probably get into deep water the next time I work
  with another symmetry, like p6212, or p2121, where I would have to deal
  not
  with quadrants but with triangles of 60deg angle?
 
  Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.
 
  All the best,
 
  Henning.
 
  Henning Stahlberg, PhD
  Prof. for Structural Biology, C-CINA, Biozentrum, University Basel
  Mattenstrasse 26 | D-BSSE | WRO-1058 | CH-4058 Basel | Switzerland
  http://c-cina.org | Tel. +41-61-387 32 62
 
 




Re: [ccp4bb] Expanding p4212 coordinates to p1

2012-04-12 Thread Henning Stahlberg
Hi,

I was referring to P42(1)2, which is the CCP4 symmetry number 90. 
I am working on 2D membrane protein crystals and cryo-electron microscopy 
images of these, where I initially deal with two-dimensional projection images, 
which are eventually merged into a 3D dataset.  Therefore my sloppy formulation.
Thanks for the suggestions from several people on this list. 
What I am doing now, and what works well, is:

\rm -f SCRATCH/merge3Dref-clean.mtz
#
${bin_ccp4}/sftools  eof
read SCRATCH/merge3Dref.mtz
sort h k l 
set spacegroup
${CCP4_SYM}
select phaerr
select invert
purge
y
write SCRATCH/merge3Dref-clean.mtz
quit
eof
#
\rm -f SCRATCH/merge3Dref-clean-p1.mtz
#
${bin_ccp4}/cad hklin1 SCRATCH/merge3Dref-clean.mtz hklout 
SCRATCH/merge3Dref-clean-p1.mtz  eof
reso overall 1 1
outlim spacegroup 1
labin file 1 all
end
eof
#
\rm -f merge3Dref.mtz
#
${bin_ccp4}/sftools  eof
read SCRATCH/merge3Dref-clean-p1.mtz
sort h k l 
set spacegroup
1
reduce matrix 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1
write merge3Dref.mtz
quit
eof
#


All the best,

Henning.


On Apr 12, 2012, at 6:10 PM, Ian Tickle wrote:

 Yes I was also confused by the fact that P4212 is obviously a space
 group (upper case 'P') whereas p4 and p1 are plane groups (lower case
 'p'), as stated.  Not sure what 'p2121' is though, I assumed it was
 somehow related to the p2gg plane group (no 8).  Also there's no plane
 group 'p6212', but then there's no space group 'P6212' either.
 
 Perhaps the original poster could clarify and take care with his P's and p's?
 
 Cheers
 
 -- Ian
 
 On 12 April 2012 16:51, Bart Hazes bha...@ualberta.ca wrote:
 I am confused by the discussion on this message. Although it says plane
 group I assume it really is a normal 3D tetragonal space group, P42(1)2
 
 So Eleanor's suggestion should work and sftools expand command will do the
 job as well.
 
 Bart
 
 
 On 12-04-12 05:03 AM, Eleanor Dodson wrote:
 
 Apologies - I didn't notice the plane group..
 Although I think if the sym ops are correctly listed in the P4121 file they
 will just be applied as given..
 Eleanor
 
 On 12 April 2012 11:58, Ian Tickle ianj...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I didn't realise the CCP4 suite could handle the plane groups: where
 are they listed (they're not in symop.lib or syminfo.lib)?  Or are
 they doing some clever projections of the space groups?
 
 Cheers
 
 -- Ian
 
 On 12 April 2012 11:48, Eleanor Dodson eleanor.dod...@york.ac.uk wrote:
 Cad will do this correctly
 Reflection utilitied - merge mtz ( rather confusing job title - sorry..)
 mtz in - the P4121.mtz data
 Output - P41212-ext.mtz
 
 Defne mtz output
 
 Select define limit for refl;action by Laue code select P1
 
 then you will get a list of all P1 reflections with phases correctly
 modified.
 
 If you really want to work in P1 you will need to change the space group
 in
 P41212-ext.mtz
 Easiest way is
 mtzutils hklin1 P4121-ext.mtz hklout P41212-ext-symP1.mtz
 SYMM P1
 end
 
 DONT change the G of P41212.mtz before doing the extension - the program
 needs the P41212 sym ops to change the phases correctly..
 
 If you want the coordinates extended too
 use pdbset to get a P1 set of cds..   (Coordinate utilities
 Edit pdb
  select pdbset and generate chains by symmetry operators
 eleanor
 Eleanor
 
 
 
 
 
 On 12 April 2012 06:51, Henning Stahlberg henning.stahlb...@unibas.ch
 wrote:
 
 Hi Everybody,
 
 I am working in a P4212 plane group, which is a p4 symmetric structure
 with a screw axis in addition. My map has in the unit cell two 4-fold
 symmetric structures, one if which is upside-down with respect to the
 other
 one.   If using expand in sftools, then the resulting map is p4
 symmetrized
 in the center between two p4-symmetric structures, which is wrong. This
 is
 probably the phase origin problem referred to here:
 http://www.ccp4.ac.uk/dist/html/sftools.html#expand
 
 Would anybody have a suggestion how I can expand the p4212 MTZ file to
 full p1, but with properly respecting the symmetry phase origin?
 
 My illiterate guess would be to either
 1) shift the phase origin in the p4212 MTZ file by (180.0;0.0); then
 use
 sftools with expand 1 to create the full reflection sets in p1; then
 shift
 back by (180.0;0.0);   or
 2) use sftools with the command expand 1, and then modify (invert?)
 the
 phases of the reflections in the quadrants that have wrong phases.
 
 In option 1) I am not sure if it is possible to shift phase origin,
 while
 staying in p4212 symmetry.  How could I do that?
 In option 2) I would probably get into deep water the next time I work
 with another symmetry, like p6212, or p2121, where I would have to deal
 not
 with quadrants but with triangles of 60deg angle?
 
 Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.
 
 All the best,
 
 Henning.
 
 Henning Stahlberg, PhD
 Prof. for Structural Biology, C-CINA, Biozentrum, University Basel
 Mattenstrasse 26 | D-BSSE | WRO-1058 | CH-4058 Basel | Switzerland
 http://c-cina.org | Tel. +41-61-387 32 62