Re: Best IDE

[Duane Searsmith]

Has ne1 looked at emacs or light table or netbeans or eclipse or vim or
Intelli what ... don't know ... let us post an IDE FAQ please!


On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Alan Thompson wrote:

> Have any of you looked at Light Table?
> http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/04/12/light-table---a-new-ide-concept/
>
> I wonder what it would take to get a VIM-like mode available with that?
> Alan
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Alex Baranosky <
> alexander.barano...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There are things I love and hate about both Emacs and Intellij, so after
>> a year of working professionally with a bunch of Clojure-Emacs users, I
>> still end up using Intellij about half the time, and get my fair share of
>> harassment over it.  I'd like to merge the two actually if possible.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Gary Trakhman wrote:
>>
>>> I used eclipse emacs+ for about a year for java code once I had started
>>> writing clojure in emacs, it made me more productive, but it was a hassle
>>> to set up.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, when eclipse updated itself to juno, it broke, and there
>>> is still no support.
>>>
>>> Going forward, I think this is a more compelling solution to get some of
>>> the benefits of eclipse in emacs: https://github.com/senny/emacs-eclim
>>>
>>> But, I think it's not quite there yet.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Kelker Ryan wrote:
>>>
 Have you tried Eclipse Emacs+?
 http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/emacs

 04.06.2013, 21:41, "Korny Sietsma" :

 My 2c - I use emacs, I love it.  I don't inflict it on my team, and I
 strongly disagree with it being "easy".  To learn the basics, yes, but full
 fluency?  If you have someone fluent in IntelliJ, with the major keystrokes
 in their muscle memory, and an instinctive familiarity with all the gui
 features, they are not going to be as productive in emacs in a hurry.

 Also, while I love the power of emacs, it's really struggling these
 days with the text-only idiom.  Speedbar is no replacement for a graphical
 directory tree.  Coloured text blocks next to modified lines is no
 replacement for being able to hover over a changed line and having a pop-up
 (a real pop-up, that is) tool tip that shows you the changes since the last
 commit.  And don't get me started on selecting fonts and other
 customizations...

 For an IDE for someone not from a vim/emacs background, I'd use
 whichever of Intellij or Eclipse is most familiar.  Eclipse is more
 clojure-friendly, but it has many warts as well - if you know IntelliJ,
 it's clojure plugin is definitely good enough.

 - Korny



 On 3 June 2013 00:05, Wei Qiu  wrote:

 Hi,

 I used to use slimux+tmux combination until I find vim-fireplace.
 It's really cool. For me it makes life much easier.


 On Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:35:34 PM UTC+1, Jeb wrote:

 Any suggestions for a vim man?
 On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Cedric Greevey wrote:

 On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Jay Fields 
 wrote:
 > Use emacs, if you want the path of least resistance

 *boggles*

 Say WHAT?

 You've got to be kidding. That's like suggesting that the path of
 least resistance in taking a trip to L.A. involves climbing the north
 face of Everest instead of using an airplane. In particular, the
 learning curve of emacs and the north face of Everest, in a shocking
 coincidence, turn out to have exactly the same geometry. :)

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>>

Re: Making things go faster

[Kevin Downey]

midje makes each test a top level form, so test runs happen as a side
effect of code loading, which means you cannot really run tests in a good
way from the repl without doing some kind of ridiculous forced code
reloading. I would definitely recommend staying far away from midje, if you
want a tight test loop the repl is your best bet, and midje's design makes
using it from the repl really awkward.

I have heard horror stories about drip jvms being launched with stale args,
etc, but that is anecdotal, and a while ago so maybe it is great, I don't
use it and have no interest in it, largely because I use the repl.


On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 12:09 AM, Hoàng Minh Thắng  wrote:

> * Is there a faster cycle than to change code, change tests and type "lein
>> test" to see the results?
>>
> my favourite workflow is with lein-midje (you can run both midje tests and
> clojure tests!)
> https://github.com/marick/lein-midje
>
>> * Is there a way to keep everything in a hot JVM (I've done a little
>> research on Nailgun... but it seems to be out of vogue) so there's no JVM
>> start-up penalty?
>>
> Try drip:
>  https://github.com/flatland/drip/
>
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And what is not good—
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Re: Making things go faster

[Hoàng Minh Thắng]

>
> * Is there a faster cycle than to change code, change tests and type "lein 
> test" to see the results?
>
my favourite workflow is with lein-midje (you can run both midje tests and 
clojure tests!)
https://github.com/marick/lein-midje

> * Is there a way to keep everything in a hot JVM (I've done a little 
> research on Nailgun... but it seems to be out of vogue) so there's no JVM 
> start-up penalty?
>
Try drip:
 https://github.com/flatland/drip/

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Re: Making things go faster

[David Pollak]

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I did a quick blog post to
help other newbies:

http://blog.goodstuff.im/clojure_workflow



On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Tim Visher  wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 4:51 PM, David Pollak
>  wrote:
> > So... the questions:
> >
> > * Is there a faster cycle than to change code, change tests and type
> "lein
> > test" to see the results?
> > * Is there a way to keep everything in a hot JVM (I've done a little
> > research on Nailgun... but it seems to be out of vogue) so there's no JVM
> > start-up penalty?
> > * Is there a reason for the huge disparity between my MacBook Pro and my
> > desktop box?
>
> http://thinkrelevance.com/blog/2013/06/04/clojure-workflow-reloaded
>
> Seems relevant. :)
>
> I don't have time to write it down, but much of what you're doing
> isn't very idiomatic and there's vast opportunities for improvement.
> Someone'll let you know. :)
>
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Re: core.match -- adding extractors?

[David Pollak]

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 2:12 PM, David Nolen  wrote:

> I've looked at extractors a little bit, but I would need to investigate
> further. Does this offer any more power than supporting arbitrary function
> application in patterns?
>

The only advantage to function application is that you could conceivably
memoize the results of the unapply because they are "not supposed" to be
side-effecting.


>
> Also, I'm unlikely to dive into any feature addition related issues until
> all these pressing bugs in JIRA are squashed.
>

No worries.

I will not open a ticket at this time. I just want to put the idea out
there.


>
>
> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 4:17 PM, David Pollak <
> feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Howdy David & Co.,
>>
>> One of the *really* nice things about Scala's pattern matching is the
>> ability to extend pattern matching using extractors. The research is
>> presented in
>> http://lampwww.epfl.ch/~emir/written/MatchingObjectsWithPatterns-TR.pdf
>>
>> The practical aspects allow testing and transforming at pattern matching
>> time. For example:
>>
>> object AsInt {
>>   def unapply(in: String): Option[Int] = try {Some(in.toInt)} catch {case
>> e: Exception => None}
>> }
>>
>> foo match {
>>   case AsInt(number) => number + 1
>>   case _ => 0
>> }
>>
>> More importantly, one can use extractors to test external things:
>>
>> object AsJsonFile {
>>   def unapply(fileName: String): Option[JSON] = ... // find the file,
>> load it and parse it as JSON
>> }
>>
>> What are your thoughts on adding extractors to the pattern matcher?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> David
>>
>> --
>> Telegram, Simply Beautiful CMS https://telegr.am
>> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
>> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
>> Blog: http://goodstuff.im
>>
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Re: [ANN] alpacas: a new Clojure source viewer

[Matthew Chadwick]

hehe looks similar to something I've been writing:

http://celeriac.net/ioio/public/

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Re: [ANN] alpacas: a new Clojure source viewer

[Gregory Graham]

This looks like it might be helpful, especially for beginners. I taught 
Racket in a High School course last year, and I can think of cases where 
such a diagram could have helped some students.


On Tuesday, June 4, 2013 3:58:52 PM UTC-5, Andrea Chiavazza wrote:
>
> Screenshot added
>
>

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Re: Looking for Clojure freelancers

[xavi]

Hi Peter,

(I'm going to follow your suggestion and reply publicly.)

I would be interested in collaborating with you. You'll find my contact 
details and a summary of my experience in xavi.caballe.pro .

I come from the Rails world (I'm also an ex-Objective-C, ex-Java, and 
ex-Perl developer). I still work with Rails but my current language of 
choice is Clojure.

My main open-source contribution is noir-auth-app, a base web app with 
authentication, https://github.com/xavi/noir-auth-app . This is a byproduct 
of a side-project that I'm developing in Clojure. Also, recently I worked 
for a month in an all-Clojure shop doing the full-stack development 
(Clojure + ClojureScript + Datomic) of a new feature.

I'm more a generalist and I am happy working both in the back-end and the 
front-end. As for databases, I'm comfortable with SQL, but with Clojure 
I've only worked with MongoDB and Datomic for now.

I'm based in Barcelona and my rate is €25/hr but I'm open to negotiate it.

Cheers!

Xavi Caballé
http://xavi.caballe.pro


On Monday, June 3, 2013 1:38:20 PM UTC+2, Peter Taoussanis wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> From time to time I have need for one or two extra hands (or, would that 
> be pairs of hands?) on larger projects. Specifically, am looking for 
> Clojure developers that'd be interested in occasional adhoc/freelance 
> development work.
>
> Most of my work is on the web application side, but it can vary.
>
> What I'd like to ask is this: if anyone's interested, drop me an email 
> (*ptaoussanis 
> at taoensso.com*) with some basic info including:
>
>- Contact details (would prefer an international telephone number also 
>if possible).
>- Your experience / informal CV (open-source stuff is my preferred 
>reference, especially if it's Clojure-based).
>- Any particular areas of interest/expertise (e.g. you especially want 
>to work with Datomic, backend services, Clojurescript, whatever).
>- Your rate + how negotiable it'd be and/or how it'd scale with 
>longer-term jobs.
>
> I can then keep your details on file and give an occasional shout if 
> something comes up that I could potentially use you for.
>
> Whole thing'd be about as informal as it gets: terms will vary based on 
> the particular job, but I'll include all of that in the email so you can 
> decide if/when something grabs your fancy.
>
> Cheers!
>
> - Peter (taoensso.com )
>

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Re: core.match -- adding extractors?

[David Nolen]

That said feel free to add an enhancement ticket.


On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 5:12 PM, David Nolen  wrote:

> I've looked at extractors a little bit, but I would need to investigate
> further. Does this offer any more power than supporting arbitrary function
> application in patterns?
>
> Also, I'm unlikely to dive into any feature addition related issues until
> all these pressing bugs in JIRA are squashed.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 4:17 PM, David Pollak <
> feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Howdy David & Co.,
>>
>> One of the *really* nice things about Scala's pattern matching is the
>> ability to extend pattern matching using extractors. The research is
>> presented in
>> http://lampwww.epfl.ch/~emir/written/MatchingObjectsWithPatterns-TR.pdf
>>
>> The practical aspects allow testing and transforming at pattern matching
>> time. For example:
>>
>> object AsInt {
>>   def unapply(in: String): Option[Int] = try {Some(in.toInt)} catch {case
>> e: Exception => None}
>> }
>>
>> foo match {
>>   case AsInt(number) => number + 1
>>   case _ => 0
>> }
>>
>> More importantly, one can use extractors to test external things:
>>
>> object AsJsonFile {
>>   def unapply(fileName: String): Option[JSON] = ... // find the file,
>> load it and parse it as JSON
>> }
>>
>> What are your thoughts on adding extractors to the pattern matcher?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> David
>>
>> --
>> Telegram, Simply Beautiful CMS https://telegr.am
>> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
>> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
>> Blog: http://goodstuff.im
>>
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Re: core.match -- adding extractors?

[David Nolen]

I've looked at extractors a little bit, but I would need to investigate
further. Does this offer any more power than supporting arbitrary function
application in patterns?

Also, I'm unlikely to dive into any feature addition related issues until
all these pressing bugs in JIRA are squashed.


On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 4:17 PM, David Pollak
wrote:

> Howdy David & Co.,
>
> One of the *really* nice things about Scala's pattern matching is the
> ability to extend pattern matching using extractors. The research is
> presented in
> http://lampwww.epfl.ch/~emir/written/MatchingObjectsWithPatterns-TR.pdf
>
> The practical aspects allow testing and transforming at pattern matching
> time. For example:
>
> object AsInt {
>   def unapply(in: String): Option[Int] = try {Some(in.toInt)} catch {case
> e: Exception => None}
> }
>
> foo match {
>   case AsInt(number) => number + 1
>   case _ => 0
> }
>
> More importantly, one can use extractors to test external things:
>
> object AsJsonFile {
>   def unapply(fileName: String): Option[JSON] = ... // find the file, load
> it and parse it as JSON
> }
>
> What are your thoughts on adding extractors to the pattern matcher?
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
> --
> Telegram, Simply Beautiful CMS https://telegr.am
> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
> Blog: http://goodstuff.im
>
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Re: [ANN] alpacas: a new Clojure source viewer

[Andrea Chiavazza]

Screenshot added

On Tuesday, 4 June 2013 21:14:56 UTC+1, Denis Labaye wrote:
>
> Idea seems great but no screenshots? Too bad for a visual tool
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 10:13 PM, Andrea Chiavazza 
> 
> > wrote:
>
>> Alpacas is an application that displays Clojure source code with forms 
>> shown as nested boxes, doing away with parenthesis altogether.
>> Run it with "lein run" and it will display its own source code.
>> There is partial support to navigate the source code by moving a cursor 
>> with the left and right arrows.
>>
>> Obviously the idea would be to be able to edit the source rather than 
>> just viewing it. Some clever key combinations or even the mouse might help 
>> accomplish that.
>> It is still a proof-of-concept and not very useful at the moment, but I 
>> think it might turn into something useful, or even innovative shall 
>> somebody decide to put some effort into it.
>>
>> I didn't work at it in a while but I decided to publish it (under GPL) so 
>> as to be able to include it in my cv (you can mail me at 
>> ndrc...@gmail.com  for Clojure job offers).
>>
>> It is hosted at: https://code.google.com/p/alpacas/
>>
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Re: Making things go faster

[Michael Klishin]

2013/6/5 David Pollak 

> * Is there a faster cycle than to change code, change tests and type "lein
> test" to see the results?
> * Is there a way to keep everything in a hot JVM (I've done a little
> research on Nailgun... but it seems to be out of vogue) so there's no JVM
> start-up penalty?
>

nREPL with nREPL.el and clojure-test-mode (Emacs) or similar tools for Vim
(VimFireplace?)

It makes running tests instant for a particular test namespace. There is a
couple of annoyances that
come with reusing the same JVM but they are minor compared to how much time
it saves you compared
to lein test.
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Re: Making things go faster

[Tim Visher]

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 4:51 PM, David Pollak
 wrote:
> So... the questions:
>
> * Is there a faster cycle than to change code, change tests and type "lein
> test" to see the results?
> * Is there a way to keep everything in a hot JVM (I've done a little
> research on Nailgun... but it seems to be out of vogue) so there's no JVM
> start-up penalty?
> * Is there a reason for the huge disparity between my MacBook Pro and my
> desktop box?

http://thinkrelevance.com/blog/2013/06/04/clojure-workflow-reloaded

Seems relevant. :)

I don't have time to write it down, but much of what you're doing
isn't very idiomatic and there's vast opportunities for improvement.
Someone'll let you know. :)

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Making things go faster

[David Pollak]

Folks,

I've been doing Clojure coding for the last couple of weeks and really love
the language... and the community is fantastic.

But the development cycle is slow.

I'm coming from mostly Scala and a little Java.

In Java, there's no REPL or anything... but the compile/test cycle is very
fast. So, I can make a few changes to code, type "mvn test" and see the
results typically in less than 2 seconds (my MacBook Pro and my Linux
desktop).

In Scala, the compile cycles are slower than in Java because the Scala
compiler is doing a whole ton more. But in sbt (Simple [ha ha] Built Tool),
one is always building/testing in the same JVM instance so the JVM is
warmed up. A "change code and run tests" cycle is typically as fast as it
is in Java. For example, Changing something significant in the
net.liftweb.util package and doing a recompile and test takes about 9
seconds. This is running > 450 tests.

My Clojure development cycle is much slower. On my MacBook Pro (3rd gen i7
quadcore processor, 16GB of ram), each time I make a change and re-run the
test for Plugh ( https://github.com/projectplugh/plugh ) it takes about 20
second and there are only 4 tests. On my desktop Linux box (i7-3770 with
32gb of RAM) it takes about 4 seconds to run the 4 tests. I also ran stuff
on a very old ThinkPad (core 2 duo with 4GB ram running Linux Mint 15) and
the test cycle takes 12 second.

So... the questions:

* Is there a faster cycle than to change code, change tests and type "lein
test" to see the results?
* Is there a way to keep everything in a hot JVM (I've done a little
research on Nailgun... but it seems to be out of vogue) so there's no JVM
start-up penalty?
* Is there a reason for the huge disparity between my MacBook Pro and my
desktop box?

Thanks,

David


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Re: [ANN] alpacas: a new Clojure source viewer

[Andrea Chiavazza]

Thanks for letting me know, I was not aware of this issue.
Google code seems to let you just switch the license, so I switched it to 
EPL 1.0.

On Tuesday, 4 June 2013 21:24:49 UTC+1, Gary Trakhman wrote:
>
> Just fyi, most clojure libs are published under EPL or Apache licenses, of 
> course the choice is up to you :-).  GPL has some restrictions that would 
> prevent the lib from being used in many projects.
>
> from the EPL wikipedia page: 'The EPL 1.0 is not 
> compatible with 
> the GPL, and a work created by combining a work licensed under the GPL with 
> a work licensed under the EPL cannot be lawfully distributed.'
>
> Since clojure itself is EPL, not sure what the implications are.
>
> Seems like apache is compatible, but only in one direction.  The project 
> would have to be itself GPL.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Denis Labaye 
> > wrote:
>
>> Idea seems great but no screenshots? Too bad for a visual tool
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 10:13 PM, Andrea Chiavazza 
>> 
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Alpacas is an application that displays Clojure source code with forms 
>>> shown as nested boxes, doing away with parenthesis altogether.
>>> Run it with "lein run" and it will display its own source code.
>>> There is partial support to navigate the source code by moving a cursor 
>>> with the left and right arrows.
>>>
>>> Obviously the idea would be to be able to edit the source rather than 
>>> just viewing it. Some clever key combinations or even the mouse might help 
>>> accomplish that.
>>> It is still a proof-of-concept and not very useful at the moment, but I 
>>> think it might turn into something useful, or even innovative shall 
>>> somebody decide to put some effort into it.
>>>
>>> I didn't work at it in a while but I decided to publish it (under GPL) 
>>> so as to be able to include it in my cv (you can mail me at 
>>> ndrc...@gmail.com  for Clojure job offers).
>>>
>>> It is hosted at: https://code.google.com/p/alpacas/
>>>
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>>>
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Re: [ANN] alpacas: a new Clojure source viewer

[Gary Trakhman]

Just fyi, most clojure libs are published under EPL or Apache licenses, of
course the choice is up to you :-).  GPL has some restrictions that would
prevent the lib from being used in many projects.

from the EPL wikipedia page: 'The EPL 1.0 is not
compatible with
the GPL, and a work created by combining a work licensed under the GPL with
a work licensed under the EPL cannot be lawfully distributed.'

Since clojure itself is EPL, not sure what the implications are.

Seems like apache is compatible, but only in one direction.  The project
would have to be itself GPL.


On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Denis Labaye  wrote:

> Idea seems great but no screenshots? Too bad for a visual tool
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 10:13 PM, Andrea Chiavazza wrote:
>
>> Alpacas is an application that displays Clojure source code with forms
>> shown as nested boxes, doing away with parenthesis altogether.
>> Run it with "lein run" and it will display its own source code.
>> There is partial support to navigate the source code by moving a cursor
>> with the left and right arrows.
>>
>> Obviously the idea would be to be able to edit the source rather than
>> just viewing it. Some clever key combinations or even the mouse might help
>> accomplish that.
>> It is still a proof-of-concept and not very useful at the moment, but I
>> think it might turn into something useful, or even innovative shall
>> somebody decide to put some effort into it.
>>
>> I didn't work at it in a while but I decided to publish it (under GPL) so
>> as to be able to include it in my cv (you can mail me at
>> ndrch...@gmail.com for Clojure job offers).
>>
>> It is hosted at: https://code.google.com/p/alpacas/
>>
>> --
>> --
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core.match -- adding extractors?

[David Pollak]

Howdy David & Co.,

One of the *really* nice things about Scala's pattern matching is the
ability to extend pattern matching using extractors. The research is
presented in
http://lampwww.epfl.ch/~emir/written/MatchingObjectsWithPatterns-TR.pdf

The practical aspects allow testing and transforming at pattern matching
time. For example:

object AsInt {
  def unapply(in: String): Option[Int] = try {Some(in.toInt)} catch {case
e: Exception => None}
}

foo match {
  case AsInt(number) => number + 1
  case _ => 0
}

More importantly, one can use extractors to test external things:

object AsJsonFile {
  def unapply(fileName: String): Option[JSON] = ... // find the file, load
it and parse it as JSON
}

What are your thoughts on adding extractors to the pattern matcher?

Thanks,

David

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Re: [ANN] alpacas: a new Clojure source viewer

[Denis Labaye]

Idea seems great but no screenshots? Too bad for a visual tool


On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 10:13 PM, Andrea Chiavazza wrote:

> Alpacas is an application that displays Clojure source code with forms
> shown as nested boxes, doing away with parenthesis altogether.
> Run it with "lein run" and it will display its own source code.
> There is partial support to navigate the source code by moving a cursor
> with the left and right arrows.
>
> Obviously the idea would be to be able to edit the source rather than just
> viewing it. Some clever key combinations or even the mouse might help
> accomplish that.
> It is still a proof-of-concept and not very useful at the moment, but I
> think it might turn into something useful, or even innovative shall
> somebody decide to put some effort into it.
>
> I didn't work at it in a while but I decided to publish it (under GPL) so
> as to be able to include it in my cv (you can mail me at
> ndrch...@gmail.com for Clojure job offers).
>
> It is hosted at: https://code.google.com/p/alpacas/
>
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[ANN] alpacas: a new Clojure source viewer

[Andrea Chiavazza]

Alpacas is an application that displays Clojure source code with forms 
shown as nested boxes, doing away with parenthesis altogether.
Run it with "lein run" and it will display its own source code.
There is partial support to navigate the source code by moving a cursor 
with the left and right arrows.

Obviously the idea would be to be able to edit the source rather than just 
viewing it. Some clever key combinations or even the mouse might help 
accomplish that.
It is still a proof-of-concept and not very useful at the moment, but I 
think it might turn into something useful, or even innovative shall 
somebody decide to put some effort into it.

I didn't work at it in a while but I decided to publish it (under GPL) so 
as to be able to include it in my cv (you can mail me at ndrch...@gmail.com 
for Clojure job offers).

It is hosted at: https://code.google.com/p/alpacas/

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Re: WSS Clojure client

[Brian Tatnall]

I've used the jetty websocket client with success.

http://download.eclipse.org/jetty/stable-7/apidocs/org/eclipse/jetty/websocket/WebSocketClient.html


On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Gary Trakhman wrote:

> Didn't mean to sound so negative, but in my experience the apache-wrapping
> ones are too many layers of abstraction, and the moment you need a specific
> feature httpclient provides and the wrapper doesn't, you're on your own and
> have to rewrite a bunch of stuff.
>
> Http-kit looks elegant, but it's likely less tested than the java libs.
>
> I guess I'll change my answer to, 'it depends'. :-)
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Michael Klishin <
> michael.s.klis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 2013/6/4 Gary Trakhman 
>>
>>> I hate all the wrapper libraries, and I've used clj-http and
>>> clj-apache-https.
>>>
>>> A quick google search turns up an alternative, seems promising:
>>>
>>
>> httpkit seems to support WebSockets, according to their github project
>> description
>>
>> http://http-kit.org/client.html
>> --
>> MK
>>
>> http://github.com/michaelklishin
>> http://twitter.com/michaelklishin
>>
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Re: WSS Clojure client

[Michael Klishin]

2013/6/4 Gary Trakhman 

> I hate all the wrapper libraries, and I've used clj-http and
> clj-apache-https.
>
> A quick google search turns up an alternative, seems promising:
>

httpkit seems to support WebSockets, according to their github project
description

http://http-kit.org/client.html
-- 
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http://twitter.com/michaelklishin

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Re: WSS Clojure client

[Gary Trakhman]

Didn't mean to sound so negative, but in my experience the apache-wrapping
ones are too many layers of abstraction, and the moment you need a specific
feature httpclient provides and the wrapper doesn't, you're on your own and
have to rewrite a bunch of stuff.

Http-kit looks elegant, but it's likely less tested than the java libs.

I guess I'll change my answer to, 'it depends'. :-)


On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Michael Klishin  wrote:

> 2013/6/4 Gary Trakhman 
>
>> I hate all the wrapper libraries, and I've used clj-http and
>> clj-apache-https.
>>
>> A quick google search turns up an alternative, seems promising:
>>
>
> httpkit seems to support WebSockets, according to their github project
> description
>
> http://http-kit.org/client.html
> --
> MK
>
> http://github.com/michaelklishin
> http://twitter.com/michaelklishin
>
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Re: WSS Clojure client

[Gary Trakhman]

nginx is a web server, and I don't think what you want.  You probably want
to use apache httpclient or a wrapper library.

I hate all the wrapper libraries, and I've used clj-http and
clj-apache-https.

A quick google search turns up an alternative, seems promising:
https://github.com/victor-github/aleph-websockets-example/blob/master/src/aleph/http/client.clj


On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 3:03 PM, Matty Williams wrote:

> Forgive my ignorance, isn't nginx another application I'd have to run
> seperately?
>
>
> On Monday, 3 June 2013 23:36:34 UTC+1, Dima Sabanin wrote:
>
>> New nginx does websocket proxying, so you could terminate SSL there and
>> use Aleph for a plain HTTP websocket server in Clojure. That's what we're
>> doing at beanstalkapp.com.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Matty Williams wrote:
>>
>>> I'm trying to write a clojure library that will need to connect to a
>>> secure websocket. I've looked at aleph which looks great but I'd need to
>>> use something like stud to handle the ssl, which as I'm writing a library
>>> isn't a great solution. I've tried looking at some java libraries but most
>>> seem server oriented. Does anyone have any ideas?
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> Dima Sabanin
>> http://twitter.com/dimasabanin
>>
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Re: WSS Clojure client

[Matty Williams]

Forgive my ignorance, isn't nginx another application I'd have to run 
seperately?

On Monday, 3 June 2013 23:36:34 UTC+1, Dima Sabanin wrote:
>
> New nginx does websocket proxying, so you could terminate SSL there and 
> use Aleph for a plain HTTP websocket server in Clojure. That's what we're 
> doing at beanstalkapp.com.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Matty Williams 
> 
> > wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to write a clojure library that will need to connect to a 
>> secure websocket. I've looked at aleph which looks great but I'd need to 
>> use something like stud to handle the ssl, which as I'm writing a library 
>> isn't a great solution. I've tried looking at some java libraries but most 
>> seem server oriented. Does anyone have any ideas?
>>
>> -- 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Clojure" group.
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>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with 
>> your first post.
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>>  
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
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> Dima Sabanin
> http://twitter.com/dimasabanin 
>

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Re: Best IDE

[Alan Thompson]

Have any of you looked at Light Table?
http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/04/12/light-table---a-new-ide-concept/

I wonder what it would take to get a VIM-like mode available with that?
Alan


On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Alex Baranosky <
alexander.barano...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There are things I love and hate about both Emacs and Intellij, so after a
> year of working professionally with a bunch of Clojure-Emacs users, I still
> end up using Intellij about half the time, and get my fair share of
> harassment over it.  I'd like to merge the two actually if possible.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Gary Trakhman wrote:
>
>> I used eclipse emacs+ for about a year for java code once I had started
>> writing clojure in emacs, it made me more productive, but it was a hassle
>> to set up.
>>
>> Unfortunately, when eclipse updated itself to juno, it broke, and there
>> is still no support.
>>
>> Going forward, I think this is a more compelling solution to get some of
>> the benefits of eclipse in emacs: https://github.com/senny/emacs-eclim
>>
>> But, I think it's not quite there yet.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Kelker Ryan wrote:
>>
>>> Have you tried Eclipse Emacs+?
>>> http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/emacs
>>>
>>> 04.06.2013, 21:41, "Korny Sietsma" :
>>>
>>> My 2c - I use emacs, I love it.  I don't inflict it on my team, and I
>>> strongly disagree with it being "easy".  To learn the basics, yes, but full
>>> fluency?  If you have someone fluent in IntelliJ, with the major keystrokes
>>> in their muscle memory, and an instinctive familiarity with all the gui
>>> features, they are not going to be as productive in emacs in a hurry.
>>>
>>> Also, while I love the power of emacs, it's really struggling these days
>>> with the text-only idiom.  Speedbar is no replacement for a graphical
>>> directory tree.  Coloured text blocks next to modified lines is no
>>> replacement for being able to hover over a changed line and having a pop-up
>>> (a real pop-up, that is) tool tip that shows you the changes since the last
>>> commit.  And don't get me started on selecting fonts and other
>>> customizations...
>>>
>>> For an IDE for someone not from a vim/emacs background, I'd use
>>> whichever of Intellij or Eclipse is most familiar.  Eclipse is more
>>> clojure-friendly, but it has many warts as well - if you know IntelliJ,
>>> it's clojure plugin is definitely good enough.
>>>
>>> - Korny
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3 June 2013 00:05, Wei Qiu  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I used to use slimux+tmux combination until I find vim-fireplace.
>>> It's really cool. For me it makes life much easier.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:35:34 PM UTC+1, Jeb wrote:
>>>
>>> Any suggestions for a vim man?
>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Cedric Greevey wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Jay Fields  wrote:
>>> > Use emacs, if you want the path of least resistance
>>>
>>> *boggles*
>>>
>>> Say WHAT?
>>>
>>> You've got to be kidding. That's like suggesting that the path of
>>> least resistance in taking a trip to L.A. involves climbing the north
>>> face of Everest instead of using an airplane. In particular, the
>>> learning curve of emacs and the north face of Everest, in a shocking
>>> coincidence, turn out to have exactly the same geometry. :)
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Clojure" group.
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>>>
>>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
>>> your first post.
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>>> clojure+u...@**googlegroups.com
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jeb Beich
>>> http://www.red-source.net/jeb
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> .fnord { display: none !important; }
>>>
>>>
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>>>

Re: Best IDE

[Alex Baranosky]

There are things I love and hate about both Emacs and Intellij, so after a
year of working professionally with a bunch of Clojure-Emacs users, I still
end up using Intellij about half the time, and get my fair share of
harassment over it.  I'd like to merge the two actually if possible.

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Gary Trakhman wrote:

> I used eclipse emacs+ for about a year for java code once I had started
> writing clojure in emacs, it made me more productive, but it was a hassle
> to set up.
>
> Unfortunately, when eclipse updated itself to juno, it broke, and there is
> still no support.
>
> Going forward, I think this is a more compelling solution to get some of
> the benefits of eclipse in emacs: https://github.com/senny/emacs-eclim
>
> But, I think it's not quite there yet.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Kelker Ryan wrote:
>
>> Have you tried Eclipse Emacs+?
>> http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/emacs
>>
>> 04.06.2013, 21:41, "Korny Sietsma" :
>>
>> My 2c - I use emacs, I love it.  I don't inflict it on my team, and I
>> strongly disagree with it being "easy".  To learn the basics, yes, but full
>> fluency?  If you have someone fluent in IntelliJ, with the major keystrokes
>> in their muscle memory, and an instinctive familiarity with all the gui
>> features, they are not going to be as productive in emacs in a hurry.
>>
>> Also, while I love the power of emacs, it's really struggling these days
>> with the text-only idiom.  Speedbar is no replacement for a graphical
>> directory tree.  Coloured text blocks next to modified lines is no
>> replacement for being able to hover over a changed line and having a pop-up
>> (a real pop-up, that is) tool tip that shows you the changes since the last
>> commit.  And don't get me started on selecting fonts and other
>> customizations...
>>
>> For an IDE for someone not from a vim/emacs background, I'd use whichever
>> of Intellij or Eclipse is most familiar.  Eclipse is more clojure-friendly,
>> but it has many warts as well - if you know IntelliJ, it's clojure plugin
>> is definitely good enough.
>>
>> - Korny
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3 June 2013 00:05, Wei Qiu  wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I used to use slimux+tmux combination until I find vim-fireplace.
>> It's really cool. For me it makes life much easier.
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:35:34 PM UTC+1, Jeb wrote:
>>
>> Any suggestions for a vim man?
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Cedric Greevey wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Jay Fields  wrote:
>> > Use emacs, if you want the path of least resistance
>>
>> *boggles*
>>
>> Say WHAT?
>>
>> You've got to be kidding. That's like suggesting that the path of
>> least resistance in taking a trip to L.A. involves climbing the north
>> face of Everest instead of using an airplane. In particular, the
>> learning curve of emacs and the north face of Everest, in a shocking
>> coincidence, turn out to have exactly the same geometry. :)
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Clojure" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com
>>
>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
>> your first post.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> clojure+u...@**googlegroups.com
>>
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/**group/clojure?hl=en
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jeb Beich
>> http://www.red-source.net/jeb
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Clojure" group.
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>> your first post.
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kornelis Sietsma  korny at my surname dot com http://korny.info
>> .fnord { display: none !important; }
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [ANN] Library updates (Redis & DynamoDB clients, logging+profiling, i18n+L10n, serialization, A/B testing)

[Peter Taoussanis]

Have had one or two people ask me about this - all libraries are under the EPL 
v1.0 , the same license as 
Clojure itself. Cheers! - Peter

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Re: Best IDE

[Gary Trakhman]

I used eclipse emacs+ for about a year for java code once I had started
writing clojure in emacs, it made me more productive, but it was a hassle
to set up.

Unfortunately, when eclipse updated itself to juno, it broke, and there is
still no support.

Going forward, I think this is a more compelling solution to get some of
the benefits of eclipse in emacs: https://github.com/senny/emacs-eclim

But, I think it's not quite there yet.


On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Kelker Ryan  wrote:

> Have you tried Eclipse Emacs+?
> http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/emacs
>
> 04.06.2013, 21:41, "Korny Sietsma" :
>
> My 2c - I use emacs, I love it.  I don't inflict it on my team, and I
> strongly disagree with it being "easy".  To learn the basics, yes, but full
> fluency?  If you have someone fluent in IntelliJ, with the major keystrokes
> in their muscle memory, and an instinctive familiarity with all the gui
> features, they are not going to be as productive in emacs in a hurry.
>
> Also, while I love the power of emacs, it's really struggling these days
> with the text-only idiom.  Speedbar is no replacement for a graphical
> directory tree.  Coloured text blocks next to modified lines is no
> replacement for being able to hover over a changed line and having a pop-up
> (a real pop-up, that is) tool tip that shows you the changes since the last
> commit.  And don't get me started on selecting fonts and other
> customizations...
>
> For an IDE for someone not from a vim/emacs background, I'd use whichever
> of Intellij or Eclipse is most familiar.  Eclipse is more clojure-friendly,
> but it has many warts as well - if you know IntelliJ, it's clojure plugin
> is definitely good enough.
>
> - Korny
>
>
>
> On 3 June 2013 00:05, Wei Qiu  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I used to use slimux+tmux combination until I find vim-fireplace.
> It's really cool. For me it makes life much easier.
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:35:34 PM UTC+1, Jeb wrote:
>
> Any suggestions for a vim man?
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Cedric Greevey  wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Jay Fields  wrote:
> > Use emacs, if you want the path of least resistance
>
> *boggles*
>
> Say WHAT?
>
> You've got to be kidding. That's like suggesting that the path of
> least resistance in taking a trip to L.A. involves climbing the north
> face of Everest instead of using an airplane. In particular, the
> learning curve of emacs and the north face of Everest, in a shocking
> coincidence, turn out to have exactly the same geometry. :)
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Clojure" group.
> To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com
>
> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
> your first post.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> clojure+u...@**googlegroups.com
>
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/**group/clojure?hl=en
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jeb Beich
> http://www.red-source.net/jeb
>
>
> --
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Kornelis Sietsma  korny at my surname dot com http://korny.info
> .fnord { display: none !important; }
>
>
> --
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Re: Best IDE

[Kelker Ryan]

Have you tried Eclipse Emacs+? http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/emacs 04.06.2013, 21:41, "Korny Sietsma" :My 2c - I use emacs, I love it.  I don't inflict it on my team, and I strongly disagree with it being "easy".  To learn the basics, yes, but full fluency?  If you have someone fluent in IntelliJ, with the major keystrokes in their muscle memory, and an instinctive familiarity with all the gui features, they are not going to be as productive in emacs in a hurry. Also, while I love the power of emacs, it's really struggling these days with the text-only idiom.  Speedbar is no replacement for a graphical directory tree.  Coloured text blocks next to modified lines is no replacement for being able to hover over a changed line and having a pop-up (a real pop-up, that is) tool tip that shows you the changes since the last commit.  And don't get me started on selecting fonts and other customizations... For an IDE for someone not from a vim/emacs background, I'd use whichever of Intellij or Eclipse is most familiar.  Eclipse is more clojure-friendly, but it has many warts as well - if you know IntelliJ, it's clojure plugin is definitely good enough. - Korny On 3 June 2013 00:05, Wei Qiu  wrote:Hi,  I used to use slimux+tmux combination until I find vim-fireplace.It's really cool. For me it makes life much easier.On Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:35:34 PM UTC+1, Jeb wrote:Any suggestions for a vim man? On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Cedric Greevey  wrote:On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Jay Fields  wrote: > Use emacs, if you want the path of least resistance  *boggles*  Say WHAT?  You've got to be kidding. That's like suggesting that the path of least resistance in taking a trip to L.A. involves climbing the north face of Everest instead of using an airplane. In particular, the learning curve of emacs and the north face of Everest, in a shocking coincidence, turn out to have exactly the same geometry. :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group.To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email toclojure+u...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en-- Jeb Beich http://www.red-source.net/jeb --  --  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.     -- Kornelis Sietsma  korny at my surname dot com http://korny.info.fnord { display: none !important; } --  --  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en ---  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.    



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Re: Best IDE

[Korny Sietsma]

My 2c - I use emacs, I love it.  I don't inflict it on my team, and I
strongly disagree with it being "easy".  To learn the basics, yes, but full
fluency?  If you have someone fluent in IntelliJ, with the major keystrokes
in their muscle memory, and an instinctive familiarity with all the gui
features, they are not going to be as productive in emacs in a hurry.

Also, while I love the power of emacs, it's really struggling these days
with the text-only idiom.  Speedbar is no replacement for a graphical
directory tree.  Coloured text blocks next to modified lines is no
replacement for being able to hover over a changed line and having a pop-up
(a real pop-up, that is) tool tip that shows you the changes since the last
commit.  And don't get me started on selecting fonts and other
customizations...

For an IDE for someone not from a vim/emacs background, I'd use whichever
of Intellij or Eclipse is most familiar.  Eclipse is more clojure-friendly,
but it has many warts as well - if you know IntelliJ, it's clojure plugin
is definitely good enough.

- Korny



On 3 June 2013 00:05, Wei Qiu  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I used to use slimux+tmux combination until I find vim-fireplace.
> It's really cool. For me it makes life much easier.
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:35:34 PM UTC+1, Jeb wrote:
>
>> Any suggestions for a vim man?
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Cedric Greevey wrote:
>>
>>>  On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Jay Fields 
>>> wrote:
>>> > Use emacs, if you want the path of least resistance
>>>
>>> *boggles*
>>>
>>> Say WHAT?
>>>
>>> You've got to be kidding. That's like suggesting that the path of
>>> least resistance in taking a trip to L.A. involves climbing the north
>>> face of Everest instead of using an airplane. In particular, the
>>> learning curve of emacs and the north face of Everest, in a shocking
>>> coincidence, turn out to have exactly the same geometry. :)
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Clojure" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com
>>>
>>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
>>> your first post.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> clojure+u...@**googlegroups.com
>>>
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/**group/clojure?hl=en
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jeb Beich
>> http://www.red-source.net/jeb
>>
>  --
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>
>



-- 
Kornelis Sietsma  korny at my surname dot com http://korny.info
.fnord { display: none !important; }

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Re: optional first map argument

[Alice]

What about adding this new binding syntax?

[(attrs map?) & contents]       ; optional first map argument
[(attrs map? {}) & contents]    ; with default value

[(s String)]

; is shorthand for

[(s #(instance? String %))]

; a function taking optional map, vector, string arguments.
[(m map?) (v vector?) (s String) n]


On Jun 4, 2:22 am, Alice  wrote:
> I often need to do this when writing hiccup helper functions:
>
> (defn my-widget
>   [& args]
>   (let [attrs    (if (map? (first args)) (first args) {})
>         contents (if (map? (first args)) (next args) args)]
>     ...
>
> I found this post, but considering that it is 4 years old, is there
> any new library developed to help with this situation?.
>
> https://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_frm/thread/125a8af6881...

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