Stus-List sprucing up Polyurethane Paint

[Alex Giannelia via CnC-List]

My "new" paint job is 8 years old and some areas are no longer shiny due to 
strap tension on the winter cover, so I was wondering if a simply wax type 
finish or a touch up paint job is in order.  Saw some earlier posts, but wanted 
to weigh in.

Thanks,


Alex Giannelia
a...@airsensing.com
(416) 203-9858 office
(416) 529-0070 mobile


-Original Message-
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Sent: May-23-18 9:05 PM
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Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 148, Issue 90

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Coupling bolts shearing (Rick Brass)
   2. Re:  Rigging tensions for C 35 Mk I (Glen Eddie)
   3. Re:  Coupling bolts shearing (detroito91)
   4. Re:  Coupling bolts shearing (detroito91)


--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 19:48:23 -0400
From: "Rick Brass" 
To: 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Coupling bolts shearing
Message-ID: <01d3f2f0$89b91f80$9d2b5e80$@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Jim?s boat has a Westerbeke 35D engine (3 cyl, 35HP) and Borg Warner BW7 
transmission, with the usual V drive arrangement of a LF38. Engine and 
transmission were both newly installed in 2010. Had 140 hours on engine when 
the boat was purchased in 2015. About 200 hours on it now, as Jim has said.

 

Seal on the hydraulic pump in the Borg Warner transmission failed during the 
delivery from Charleston to Washington, NC in 2015 (seal had dried out during a 
couple of years when the engine only accumulated 4 hours of use by the PO, 
apparently). So the transmission was rebuilt at that time.

 

There is a ?damper? between the engine flywheel and the input shaft of the 
transmission. According to the illustration in the parts book, it looks sort of 
like the spring loaded pressure plate in a clutch arrangement. But it seems 
pretty unlikely that the damper would have failed with only 200 hours on the 
engine.

 

The Walter v drive hasn?t got much space under it for the coupling, so Jim?s 
boat has a relatively small diameter coupling with 3 bolts in it.  As Jim has 
said, this is the 3rd time in two years that the bolts have sheared off. As he  
has said, the feathering prop has been rebuilt, the shaft checked for 
straightness, bolts replaced (though there is a question whether the latest set 
is grade 5 or grade 8), engine aligned repeatedly(and BTW the motor mounts are 
new), etc., etc., etc. Jim (and everyone else aware of the problem) is getting 
really frustrated.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frank via 
CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 3:39 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Frank 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Coupling bolts shearing

 

Jim,

 

I have a 79 38LF, serial number 001.  I have had a similar problem.

There were a combination of things that caused it.

First, the engine was never bedded in the boat properly.  I had to cut the 
engine mounts and rebuild them so the engine could be aligned with the prop 
shaft.

Second, I had the Paragon SAOV transmission and V-drive rebuilt.  Most of the 
internal components of both units were replaced.  The prior owner installed a 
used SAOD and connected the v-drive to it. (Making it a SAOV)

But, most important, have you replaced the vibration damper connected to the 
output shaft of the engine?  It looks like a clutch plate but without the 
clutch material.  It is between the engine and the transmission.

Mine looked good but upon a thorough inspection it was found to be trash!

My problem turned out to be a combination of the above, several ?boat yards? 
aligned the prop with the v-drive but in actuality, there was a significant 
amount of difference between the two causing the bolts on the coupling to 
loosen.

There was enough play in the v-drive output for it to look good.

 

I would suspect that your vibration damper is not doing it?s job.

 

Frank

 

Frank Noragon
S/V: Cool Change
C 38LF, s/n: 001
Rose City Yacht Club
Portland, Oregon

 

From: detroito91 via CnC-List 

Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 11:48 AM

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com   ; Jim Schwartz 

Cc: detroito91 

Subject: Stus-List Coupling bolts shearing

 

The boat in question is an 81 landfall 38. 

The v-drive coupling bolts have sheared off 3 times and caused loss of power.

Stus-List El Faro

[Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List]

Not C related, but certainly maritime related - dramatic story about the
El Faro, a 1970s container ship that was lost at sea on October 1st, 2015
in Hurricane Joaquin:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/04/inside-el-faro-the-worst-us-maritime-disaster-in-decades

Hope all you C'ers are well.

Steve
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Re: Stus-List thermostat on 3QM30H

[svrebeccaleah via CnC-List]

Bill, my old 3qm30 had 2 thermostats. My understanding between the raw water 
cooled and fresh water cooled is the opening temperature of the thermostats. 
This was from my local Yanmar dealer. 


Doug Mountjoy Rebecca Leah LF39 POYC, WA.


 Original message From: William Walker via CnC-List 
 Date: 5/27/18  06:27  (GMT-08:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: wwadjo...@aol.com Subject: Re: Stus-List thermostat 
on 3QM30H 
Josh,

  I have a drawing from yanmar manual, not quite same as yours.   My thermostat 
cover has bolt pattern different..fore and aft and side to side..I am always 
confused by "raw  water, fresh water" thing...I draw lake water in and through 
engine and out...no antifreeze or heat exchange..just direct through and out.

Bill.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail


On Sunday, May 27, 2018 Josh Muckley via CnC-List  wrote:



Is your engine fresh water or raw water cooled.  By the model number I'm 
guessing that it is raw water cooled.  I don't have the manuals for the QM 
series but believe that they are the predecessor to the HM and GM.  As such 
many of the parts are interchangeable and much of the design is the same.  In 
my parts diagrams it shows 2 thermostats but only on the raw later cooled 
versions of the HM/GM.  I'll send you a picture off list.
Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C 37+Solomons, MD 
On Sun, May 27, 2018, 8:35 AM William Walker via CnC-List 
 wrote:
Good morning,

   Yesterday I removed the thermostat cover on top of the exhaust manifold to  
replace the thermostat which I suspected was bad.  I have a yanmar service 
manual which has detailed drawings of the exhaust manifold on this sea water 
cooled engine.  To my surprise when I removed the cover there were TWO 
thermostats installed for and aft on starboard side of the exhaust manifold 
ports.  The Yanmar service manual shows only ONE, in the forward port.

Since I only had one new thermostat I installed it in the forward port on 
manifold, cleaned up the other from corrosion and put it back where it was.  
The second port is machined to accept a thermostat.

If you have a yanmar service manual, pictures of this on page 7-A-2 showing one 
thermostat.

Since these two ports are connected internally and water can flow through both 
I am thinking that this is a safety factor.  If one fails the other still may 
open and allow cooling water to engine.

Any thoughts if this second thermostats belongs there?  I have been running 
this engine with it in place for 7 years and I suspect prior owner did as well 
for a time.

Bill Walker

Evening Star 

CnC 36

Pentwater, Mi 
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
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Re: Stus-List 3GMF knocking sound

[John and Maryann Read via CnC-List]

Have Yanmar 3GM and Kanzaki transmission.  Had similar issue of only one blade 
opening after sailing, boat shaking and continuing problem after trying varying 
speeds, reverse / forward etc.  Worked fine if starting from dead stop.  Not 
excessive wear on blade pins.  In our case turned out to be worn / polished 
cones in transmission.  Seems an earlier rebuild was not done correctly, 
resulting in shaft not getting fully engaged.  Diagnosed by watching prop shaft 
as crew engaged in gear at idle, then slowly increase throttle.  Shaft rpm’s 
did not increase corresponding to engine.  Would occasionally “grab” when 
higher engine rpm’s were applied.  Pulled transmission (not that hard), sent to 
expert on Yanmar / Kanzaki transmissions (VERY important), had the unit back in 
a week, reinstalled all is well.  Some pointers picked up along the way.  1) In 
our case the fitting attaching the shifting cable to the shift lever on the 
transmission is a double spring push/pull fitting which must be adjusted so 
when in either forward or reverse there is additional movement possible on the 
binnacle.  We attach the fitting to the inner hole of the lever.  Lubricating 
spring is normal maintenance each year.  2)  The mounts are OK provided you can 
get a finger between the base and top plates.  3)  Check alignment

 

Hope this helps

 

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Paxton 
via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2018 10:46 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Kevin Paxton
Subject: Re: Stus-List 3GMF knocking sound

 

Pretty sure it's a martec, folding 2-blade. I try to power up and it vibrates 
like crazy. I power down to try and get it to reset so that I don't damage 
anything with it vibrating so bad. Then I try again. If I rotate the shaft 
manually I can hear each blade folding open but for some reason it is tough to 
open it after sailing for a bit. 

 

Coming out of the slip it opens without a problem.

 

The sounds came this time though while already under power and the prop was 
open. 

On Sun, May 27, 2018, 10:27 AM Gary Nylander via CnC-List 
 wrote:

I’m curious. What kind of prop do you have that requires you to slow down to 
get it to open. Most folding ones ask for more speed to get the blades to open. 
Non opening would produce lots of vibration, which would get lots of noise as 
the engine bounces around on (particularly) old motor mounts. Shake the motor.

 

Gary

Flex-o-fold geared

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Kevin Paxton via 
CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2018 8:05 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Kevin Paxton 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 3GMF knocking sound

 

Yea I did that today and started it up and it sounded fine. However I didn't 
put it in gear or take it out of the slip. The racor was full and I didn't see 
any water in it either.

 

Now it does vibrate pretty good under operation. I looked at the engine mounts 
though and none seemed to be cracked or anything. What should the mounts 
look/feel like?  How much vibration while running should it have? 

On Sat, May 26, 2018, 6:50 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List  
wrote:

Kevin, 

 

Fill the fuel tank with 6 to 10 gallons of fresh fuel, try it out, and get back 
to us.  Check your racor filter for air.  Low fuel/air in the line/water in the 
line can all cause rough operation.  These Yanmars have a lot of backlash in 
the engine and when you get rough operations the clutch plate springs can bang. 
 If you have a loose/broken/soft engine mount it can allow the engine to bang 
around pretty good too.

 

Josh Muckley 

S/V Sea Hawk 

1989 C 37+

Solomons, MD

 

 

On Sat, May 26, 2018, 2:30 PM Kevin Paxton via CnC-List  
wrote:

Hey Everyone,

 

Well we were lucky enough to be able to take out our 34 this past Wednesday for 
the Blue Angels show in Annapolis. On our way back our Yanmar 3GMF would 
occasionally make a knocking sound. I'm hoping you guys might know what could 
have caused it.

 

When it happened:

* We were about to enter into the mouth of the Magothy and I was taking down 
the main. My wife had the helm and yelled up saying that something didn't sound 
right with the engine. She throttled down and when I got back everything 
sounded ok. She said that it sounded like it was going to die. Like it was 
running out of fuel.

* We kept it running slowly for a bit without issue. Then I tried to speed us 
up again. After about 5-10 mins it started making the noise again. To me it 
sounded like a loud knocking or banging sound. I immediately reduced power 
again and it immediately went away.

 

Conditions:

* At the time it started occurring we had about 1/8 of a tank of fuel.

* Heavy, choppy waves for a large portion of our trip due to lots of power 
boats. However, at the time it occurred, seas were calm.

* 

Re: Stus-List thermostat on 3QM30H

[William Walker via CnC-List]

Got it, thanks for your input...
Bill

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Sunday, May 27, 2018 Josh Muckley via CnC-List  wrote:

Absolutely leave 2 thermostats.  I never suggested otherwise.  Without a 
thermostat in one or both of the ports it will act as though the thermostat is 
wide open all the time providing maximum cooling and the engine will likely 
never come up to temperature.  I was only trying to explain the disparity 
between your manual and your engine, suggesting that your information 
(drawings/manual) may have been for the freshwater variant and that because of 
this disparity you may have also inadvertently installed a thermostat with a 
freshwater temperature setpoint.


Josh


On Sun, May 27, 2018, 10:41 AM William Walker via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Josh,
  Thanks, but I must have older or newer than that diagram (1981 boat).  My 
thermostat housing is on top of exhaust manifold, square in shape with 4 
distinct chambers, two of which are machined to accept thermostats..
  I think I will just leave as has been for the 7 years I have owned boat.  a 
thermostat in each chamber..
Bill

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Sunday, May 27, 2018 Josh Muckley via CnC-List  wrote:

Bill, 


Check out page 162 in the following link.  On page 182 it describes the 
thermostat setpoints.  160 = fresh and 108 =raw.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yenJtR1BxWjhqZGs/view?usp=drivesdk


Josh


On Sun, May 27, 2018, 9:28 AM William Walker via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Josh,
  I have a drawing from yanmar manual, not quite same as yours.   My thermostat 
cover has bolt pattern different..fore and aft and side to side..I am always 
confused by "raw  water, fresh water" thing...I draw lake water in and through 
engine and out...no antifreeze or heat exchange..just direct through and out.
Bill.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Sunday, May 27, 2018 Josh Muckley via CnC-List  wrote:

Is your engine fresh water or raw water cooled.  By the model number I'm 
guessing that it is raw water cooled.  I don't have the manuals for the QM 
series but believe that they are the predecessor to the HM and GM.  As such 
many of the parts are interchangeable and much of the design is the same.  In 
my parts diagrams it shows 2 thermostats but only on the raw later cooled 
versions of the HM/GM.  I'll send you a picture off list.


Josh Muckley 

S/V Sea Hawk 

1989 C 37+

Solomons, MD 


On Sun, May 27, 2018, 8:35 AM William Walker via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Good morning,
   Yesterday I removed the thermostat cover on top of the exhaust manifold to  
replace the thermostat which I suspected was bad.  I have a yanmar service 
manual which has detailed drawings of the exhaust manifold on this sea water 
cooled engine.  To my surprise when I removed the cover there were TWO 
thermostats installed for and aft on starboard side of the exhaust manifold 
ports.  The Yanmar service manual shows only ONE, in the forward port.
Since I only had one new thermostat I installed it in the forward port on 
manifold, cleaned up the other from corrosion and put it back where it was.  
The second port is machined to accept a thermostat.
If you have a yanmar service manual, pictures of this on page 7-A-2 showing one 
thermostat.
Since these two ports are connected internally and water can flow through both 
I am thinking that this is a safety factor.  If one fails the other still may 
open and allow cooling water to engine.
Any thoughts if this second thermostats belongs there?  I have been running 
this engine with it in place for 7 years and I suspect prior owner did as well 
for a time.
Bill Walker
Evening Star 
CnC 36
Pentwater, Mi 

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

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to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

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Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 

Re: Stus-List 3GMF knocking sound

[Nauset Beach via CnC-List]

Martec non-geared props have issues with both blades opening especially if they 
get worn at the pin in each blade.  Sounds like that might be the issue.  Was 
on a J/35 in the late ‘80’s that had that issue and the whole boat would shake. 
 The owner and his son had a routine they went through to coax both blades to 
open; IIRC they went to neutral, then reverse with some throttle, then 
relatively quickly went into forward.  Might guess that put some additional 
wear on the cones in the transmission, but it seemed to work.  

 

Martec will recondition the props, but that obviously means pulling the prop 
and sending it to them…  

 

Many of us who had Martec’s have changed to Flex-O-Fold geared props to 
eliminate the potential to vibrate due to a blade not opening and for much 
improved reverse.  Have my old Martec if anyone wants it: RH  16 x 14 for a 1” 
shaft…  

 

Brian

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Paxton 
via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2018 10:46 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Kevin Paxton 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 3GMF knocking sound

 

Pretty sure it's a martec, folding 2-blade. I try to power up and it vibrates 
like crazy. I power down to try and get it to reset so that I don't damage 
anything with it vibrating so bad. Then I try again. If I rotate the shaft 
manually I can hear each blade folding open but for some reason it is tough to 
open it after sailing for a bit. 

 

Coming out of the slip it opens without a problem.

 

The sounds came this time though while already under power and the prop was 
open. 

On Sun, May 27, 2018, 10:27 AM Gary Nylander via CnC-List 
 > wrote:

I’m curious. What kind of prop do you have that requires you to slow down to 
get it to open. Most folding ones ask for more speed to get the blades to open. 
Non opening would produce lots of vibration, which would get lots of noise as 
the engine bounces around on (particularly) old motor mounts. Shake the motor.

 

Gary

Flex-o-fold geared

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Re: Stus-List thermostat on 3QM30H

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Absolutely leave 2 thermostats.  I never suggested otherwise.  Without a
thermostat in one or both of the ports it will act as though the thermostat
is wide open all the time providing maximum cooling and the engine will
likely never come up to temperature.  I was only trying to explain the
disparity between your manual and your engine, suggesting that your
information (drawings/manual) may have been for the freshwater variant and
that because of this disparity you may have also inadvertently installed a
thermostat with a freshwater temperature setpoint.

Josh

On Sun, May 27, 2018, 10:41 AM William Walker via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Josh,
>   Thanks, but I must have older or newer than that diagram (1981 boat).
> My thermostat housing is on top of exhaust manifold, square in shape with 4
> distinct chambers, two of which are machined to accept thermostats..
>   I think I will just leave as has been for the 7 years I have owned
> boat.  a thermostat in each chamber..
> Bill
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> --
> On Sunday, May 27, 2018 Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> wrote:
> Bill,
>
> Check out page 162 in the following link.  On page 182 it describes the
> thermostat setpoints.  160 = fresh and 108 =raw.
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yenJtR1BxWjhqZGs/view?usp=drivesdk
>
> Josh
>
> On Sun, May 27, 2018, 9:28 AM William Walker via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Josh,
>>   I have a drawing from yanmar manual, not quite same as yours.   My
>> thermostat cover has bolt pattern different..fore and aft and side to
>> side..I am always confused by "raw  water, fresh water" thing...I draw lake
>> water in and through engine and out...no antifreeze or heat exchange..just
>> direct through and out.
>> Bill.
>>
>> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
>> --
>> On Sunday, May 27, 2018 Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>> wrote:
>> Is your engine fresh water or raw water cooled.  By the model number I'm
>> guessing that it is raw water cooled.  I don't have the manuals for the QM
>> series but believe that they are the predecessor to the HM and GM.  As such
>> many of the parts are interchangeable and much of the design is the same.
>> In my parts diagrams it shows 2 thermostats but only on the raw later
>> cooled versions of the HM/GM.  I'll send you a picture off list.
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>>
>> On Sun, May 27, 2018, 8:35 AM William Walker via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Good morning,
>>>Yesterday I removed the thermostat cover on top of the exhaust
>>> manifold to  replace the thermostat which I suspected was bad.  I have a
>>> yanmar service manual which has detailed drawings of the exhaust manifold
>>> on this sea water cooled engine.  To my surprise when I removed the cover
>>> there were TWO thermostats installed for and aft on starboard side of the
>>> exhaust manifold ports.  The Yanmar service manual shows only ONE, in the
>>> forward port.
>>> Since I only had one new thermostat I installed it in the forward port
>>> on manifold, cleaned up the other from corrosion and put it back where it
>>> was.  The second port is machined to accept a thermostat.
>>> If you have a yanmar service manual, pictures of this on page 7-A-2
>>> showing one thermostat.
>>> Since these two ports are connected internally and water can flow
>>> through both I am thinking that this is a safety factor.  If one fails the
>>> other still may open and allow cooling water to engine.
>>> Any thoughts if this second thermostats belongs there?  I have been
>>> running this engine with it in place for 7 years and I suspect prior owner
>>> did as well for a time.
>>> Bill Walker
>>> Evening Star
>>> CnC 36
>>> Pentwater, Mi
>>>
>>> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use
>> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and
> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution -- 

Re: Stus-List 3GMF knocking sound

[Kevin Paxton via CnC-List]

Pretty sure it's a martec, folding 2-blade. I try to power up and it
vibrates like crazy. I power down to try and get it to reset so that I
don't damage anything with it vibrating so bad. Then I try again. If I
rotate the shaft manually I can hear each blade folding open but for some
reason it is tough to open it after sailing for a bit.

Coming out of the slip it opens without a problem.

The sounds came this time though while already under power and the prop was
open.

On Sun, May 27, 2018, 10:27 AM Gary Nylander via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I’m curious. What kind of prop do you have that requires you to slow down
> to get it to open. Most folding ones ask for more speed to get the blades
> to open. Non opening would produce lots of vibration, which would get lots
> of noise as the engine bounces around on (particularly) old motor mounts.
> Shake the motor.
>
>
>
> Gary
>
> Flex-o-fold geared
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Kevin
> Paxton via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 26, 2018 8:05 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Kevin Paxton 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 3GMF knocking sound
>
>
>
> Yea I did that today and started it up and it sounded fine. However I
> didn't put it in gear or take it out of the slip. The racor was full and I
> didn't see any water in it either.
>
>
>
> Now it does vibrate pretty good under operation. I looked at the engine
> mounts though and none seemed to be cracked or anything. What should the
> mounts look/feel like?  How much vibration while running should it have?
>
> On Sat, May 26, 2018, 6:50 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Kevin,
>
>
>
> Fill the fuel tank with 6 to 10 gallons of fresh fuel, try it out, and get
> back to us.  Check your racor filter for air.  Low fuel/air in the
> line/water in the line can all cause rough operation.  These Yanmars have a
> lot of backlash in the engine and when you get rough operations the clutch
> plate springs can bang.  If you have a loose/broken/soft engine mount it
> can allow the engine to bang around pretty good too.
>
>
>
> Josh Muckley
>
> S/V Sea Hawk
>
> 1989 C 37+
>
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 26, 2018, 2:30 PM Kevin Paxton via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hey Everyone,
>
>
>
> Well we were lucky enough to be able to take out our 34 this past
> Wednesday for the Blue Angels show in Annapolis. On our way back our Yanmar
> 3GMF would occasionally make a knocking sound. I'm hoping you guys might
> know what could have caused it.
>
>
>
> When it happened:
>
> * We were about to enter into the mouth of the Magothy and I was taking
> down the main. My wife had the helm and yelled up saying that something
> didn't sound right with the engine. She throttled down and when I got back
> everything sounded ok. She said that it sounded like it was going to die.
> Like it was running out of fuel.
>
> * We kept it running slowly for a bit without issue. Then I tried to speed
> us up again. After about 5-10 mins it started making the noise again. To me
> it sounded like a loud knocking or banging sound. I immediately reduced
> power again and it immediately went away.
>
>
>
> Conditions:
>
> * At the time it started occurring we had about 1/8 of a tank of fuel.
>
> * Heavy, choppy waves for a large portion of our trip due to lots of power
> boats. However, at the time it occurred, seas were calm.
>
> * At start up after we sailed for a bit the prop had trouble opening and I
> had to reduce power a couple of times to get it to open.
>
>
>
> Observations:
>
> * I didn't see anything incorrect or worrysome during operation.
>
> * No leaking oil, fuel, or water.
>
> * Racor water separator doesn't show any water in the bowl. A little gunk
> in the bottom but not much.
>
> * When power was reduced, everything sounded normal and operated normal.
>
>
>
> Thoughts/Questions:
>
> * Could low fuel/dirty fuel/water in fuel make this happen?
>
> * Could this be more of a vibration from the prop not opening properly? If
> that's the case, could it be indicative of something in the strut or
> cutlass bearing? We have in the past had A LOT of problems with the prop
> not opening.
>
> * I did notice that during operation on the way back that occasionally the
> undulation of the waves caused some stress. I'm assuming just because of
> stresses on the prop.
>
>
>
> Today I filled up the tank and started it up in the slip. It started
> immediately and didn't sound like anything was wrong. I brought the
> throttle up and down and everything sounds absolutely fine. So I'm at a bit
> of a loss as to what to check/do. I do know that I still need to change the
> oil and I am planning on changing the fuel filters as well.
>
>
>
> I did notice that I am able to see the notch in the prop shaft where it
> meets the gearbox. There does not seem to be anything on the shaft that
> would indicate that it shifted at all 

Re: Stus-List thermostat on 3QM30H

[William Walker via CnC-List]

Josh,
  Thanks, but I must have older or newer than that diagram (1981 boat).  My 
thermostat housing is on top of exhaust manifold, square in shape with 4 
distinct chambers, two of which are machined to accept thermostats..
  I think I will just leave as has been for the 7 years I have owned boat.  a 
thermostat in each chamber..
Bill

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Sunday, May 27, 2018 Josh Muckley via CnC-List  wrote:

Bill, 


Check out page 162 in the following link.  On page 182 it describes the 
thermostat setpoints.  160 = fresh and 108 =raw.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yenJtR1BxWjhqZGs/view?usp=drivesdk


Josh


On Sun, May 27, 2018, 9:28 AM William Walker via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Josh,
  I have a drawing from yanmar manual, not quite same as yours.   My thermostat 
cover has bolt pattern different..fore and aft and side to side..I am always 
confused by "raw  water, fresh water" thing...I draw lake water in and through 
engine and out...no antifreeze or heat exchange..just direct through and out.
Bill.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Sunday, May 27, 2018 Josh Muckley via CnC-List  wrote:

Is your engine fresh water or raw water cooled.  By the model number I'm 
guessing that it is raw water cooled.  I don't have the manuals for the QM 
series but believe that they are the predecessor to the HM and GM.  As such 
many of the parts are interchangeable and much of the design is the same.  In 
my parts diagrams it shows 2 thermostats but only on the raw later cooled 
versions of the HM/GM.  I'll send you a picture off list.


Josh Muckley 

S/V Sea Hawk 

1989 C 37+

Solomons, MD 


On Sun, May 27, 2018, 8:35 AM William Walker via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Good morning,
   Yesterday I removed the thermostat cover on top of the exhaust manifold to  
replace the thermostat which I suspected was bad.  I have a yanmar service 
manual which has detailed drawings of the exhaust manifold on this sea water 
cooled engine.  To my surprise when I removed the cover there were TWO 
thermostats installed for and aft on starboard side of the exhaust manifold 
ports.  The Yanmar service manual shows only ONE, in the forward port.
Since I only had one new thermostat I installed it in the forward port on 
manifold, cleaned up the other from corrosion and put it back where it was.  
The second port is machined to accept a thermostat.
If you have a yanmar service manual, pictures of this on page 7-A-2 showing one 
thermostat.
Since these two ports are connected internally and water can flow through both 
I am thinking that this is a safety factor.  If one fails the other still may 
open and allow cooling water to engine.
Any thoughts if this second thermostats belongs there?  I have been running 
this engine with it in place for 7 years and I suspect prior owner did as well 
for a time.
Bill Walker
Evening Star 
CnC 36
Pentwater, Mi 

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

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Re: Stus-List 3GMF knocking sound

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

I’m curious. What kind of prop do you have that requires you to slow down to 
get it to open. Most folding ones ask for more speed to get the blades to open. 
Non opening would produce lots of vibration, which would get lots of noise as 
the engine bounces around on (particularly) old motor mounts. Shake the motor.

 

Gary

Flex-o-fold geared

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Kevin Paxton via 
CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2018 8:05 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Kevin Paxton 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 3GMF knocking sound

 

Yea I did that today and started it up and it sounded fine. However I didn't 
put it in gear or take it out of the slip. The racor was full and I didn't see 
any water in it either.

 

Now it does vibrate pretty good under operation. I looked at the engine mounts 
though and none seemed to be cracked or anything. What should the mounts 
look/feel like?  How much vibration while running should it have? 

On Sat, May 26, 2018, 6:50 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List  > wrote:

Kevin, 

 

Fill the fuel tank with 6 to 10 gallons of fresh fuel, try it out, and get back 
to us.  Check your racor filter for air.  Low fuel/air in the line/water in the 
line can all cause rough operation.  These Yanmars have a lot of backlash in 
the engine and when you get rough operations the clutch plate springs can bang. 
 If you have a loose/broken/soft engine mount it can allow the engine to bang 
around pretty good too.

 

Josh Muckley 

S/V Sea Hawk 

1989 C 37+

Solomons, MD

 

 

On Sat, May 26, 2018, 2:30 PM Kevin Paxton via CnC-List  > wrote:

Hey Everyone,

 

Well we were lucky enough to be able to take out our 34 this past Wednesday for 
the Blue Angels show in Annapolis. On our way back our Yanmar 3GMF would 
occasionally make a knocking sound. I'm hoping you guys might know what could 
have caused it.

 

When it happened:

* We were about to enter into the mouth of the Magothy and I was taking down 
the main. My wife had the helm and yelled up saying that something didn't sound 
right with the engine. She throttled down and when I got back everything 
sounded ok. She said that it sounded like it was going to die. Like it was 
running out of fuel.

* We kept it running slowly for a bit without issue. Then I tried to speed us 
up again. After about 5-10 mins it started making the noise again. To me it 
sounded like a loud knocking or banging sound. I immediately reduced power 
again and it immediately went away.

 

Conditions:

* At the time it started occurring we had about 1/8 of a tank of fuel.

* Heavy, choppy waves for a large portion of our trip due to lots of power 
boats. However, at the time it occurred, seas were calm.

* At start up after we sailed for a bit the prop had trouble opening and I had 
to reduce power a couple of times to get it to open. 

 

Observations:

* I didn't see anything incorrect or worrysome during operation. 

* No leaking oil, fuel, or water.

* Racor water separator doesn't show any water in the bowl. A little gunk in 
the bottom but not much.

* When power was reduced, everything sounded normal and operated normal.

 

Thoughts/Questions:

* Could low fuel/dirty fuel/water in fuel make this happen?

* Could this be more of a vibration from the prop not opening properly? If 
that's the case, could it be indicative of something in the strut or cutlass 
bearing? We have in the past had A LOT of problems with the prop not opening. 

* I did notice that during operation on the way back that occasionally the 
undulation of the waves caused some stress. I'm assuming just because of 
stresses on the prop. 

 

Today I filled up the tank and started it up in the slip. It started 
immediately and didn't sound like anything was wrong. I brought the throttle up 
and down and everything sounds absolutely fine. So I'm at a bit of a loss as to 
what to check/do. I do know that I still need to change the oil and I am 
planning on changing the fuel filters as well. 

 

I did notice that I am able to see the notch in the prop shaft where it meets 
the gearbox. There does not seem to be anything on the shaft that would 
indicate that it shifted at all though. Is this normal?

 

Would love some help from some of the yanmar experts on here please.

 

Kevin Paxton

'82 34 #473

Japhys Spirit

Cornfield Creek, Pasadena, MD

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Re: Stus-List thermostat on 3QM30H

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Bill,

Check out page 162 in the following link.  On page 182 it describes the
thermostat setpoints.  160 = fresh and 108 =raw.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yenJtR1BxWjhqZGs/view?usp=drivesdk

Josh

On Sun, May 27, 2018, 9:28 AM William Walker via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Josh,
>   I have a drawing from yanmar manual, not quite same as yours.   My
> thermostat cover has bolt pattern different..fore and aft and side to
> side..I am always confused by "raw  water, fresh water" thing...I draw lake
> water in and through engine and out...no antifreeze or heat exchange..just
> direct through and out.
> Bill.
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> --
> On Sunday, May 27, 2018 Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> wrote:
> Is your engine fresh water or raw water cooled.  By the model number I'm
> guessing that it is raw water cooled.  I don't have the manuals for the QM
> series but believe that they are the predecessor to the HM and GM.  As such
> many of the parts are interchangeable and much of the design is the same.
> In my parts diagrams it shows 2 thermostats but only on the raw later
> cooled versions of the HM/GM.  I'll send you a picture off list.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Sun, May 27, 2018, 8:35 AM William Walker via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Good morning,
>>Yesterday I removed the thermostat cover on top of the exhaust
>> manifold to  replace the thermostat which I suspected was bad.  I have a
>> yanmar service manual which has detailed drawings of the exhaust manifold
>> on this sea water cooled engine.  To my surprise when I removed the cover
>> there were TWO thermostats installed for and aft on starboard side of the
>> exhaust manifold ports.  The Yanmar service manual shows only ONE, in the
>> forward port.
>> Since I only had one new thermostat I installed it in the forward port on
>> manifold, cleaned up the other from corrosion and put it back where it
>> was.  The second port is machined to accept a thermostat.
>> If you have a yanmar service manual, pictures of this on page 7-A-2
>> showing one thermostat.
>> Since these two ports are connected internally and water can flow through
>> both I am thinking that this is a safety factor.  If one fails the other
>> still may open and allow cooling water to engine.
>> Any thoughts if this second thermostats belongs there?  I have been
>> running this engine with it in place for 7 years and I suspect prior owner
>> did as well for a time.
>> Bill Walker
>> Evening Star
>> CnC 36
>> Pentwater, Mi
>>
>> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and
> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List thermostat on 3QM30H

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

So your engine IS raw water cooled.  This confirms my suspicion that the
dual thermostat is part of the raw water design of the HM/GM/QM series.
Typically the raw water thermostats run cooler than the fresh.  This helps
prevent localized boiling and scale formation in the engine.  I believe
165°F is normal for raw.  185° or 195° for fresh.  You can test them in a
pot on the stove top with a thermometer.

Josh

On Sun, May 27, 2018, 9:28 AM William Walker via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Josh,
>   I have a drawing from yanmar manual, not quite same as yours.   My
> thermostat cover has bolt pattern different..fore and aft and side to
> side..I am always confused by "raw  water, fresh water" thing...I draw lake
> water in and through engine and out...no antifreeze or heat exchange..just
> direct through and out.
> Bill.
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> --
> On Sunday, May 27, 2018 Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> wrote:
> Is your engine fresh water or raw water cooled.  By the model number I'm
> guessing that it is raw water cooled.  I don't have the manuals for the QM
> series but believe that they are the predecessor to the HM and GM.  As such
> many of the parts are interchangeable and much of the design is the same.
> In my parts diagrams it shows 2 thermostats but only on the raw later
> cooled versions of the HM/GM.  I'll send you a picture off list.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Sun, May 27, 2018, 8:35 AM William Walker via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Good morning,
>>Yesterday I removed the thermostat cover on top of the exhaust
>> manifold to  replace the thermostat which I suspected was bad.  I have a
>> yanmar service manual which has detailed drawings of the exhaust manifold
>> on this sea water cooled engine.  To my surprise when I removed the cover
>> there were TWO thermostats installed for and aft on starboard side of the
>> exhaust manifold ports.  The Yanmar service manual shows only ONE, in the
>> forward port.
>> Since I only had one new thermostat I installed it in the forward port on
>> manifold, cleaned up the other from corrosion and put it back where it
>> was.  The second port is machined to accept a thermostat.
>> If you have a yanmar service manual, pictures of this on page 7-A-2
>> showing one thermostat.
>> Since these two ports are connected internally and water can flow through
>> both I am thinking that this is a safety factor.  If one fails the other
>> still may open and allow cooling water to engine.
>> Any thoughts if this second thermostats belongs there?  I have been
>> running this engine with it in place for 7 years and I suspect prior owner
>> did as well for a time.
>> Bill Walker
>> Evening Star
>> CnC 36
>> Pentwater, Mi
>>
>> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and
> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List thermostat on 3QM30H

[William Walker via CnC-List]

Josh,
  I have a drawing from yanmar manual, not quite same as yours.   My thermostat 
cover has bolt pattern different..fore and aft and side to side..I am always 
confused by "raw  water, fresh water" thing...I draw lake water in and through 
engine and out...no antifreeze or heat exchange..just direct through and out.
Bill.


Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Sunday, May 27, 2018 Josh Muckley via CnC-List  wrote:

Is your engine fresh water or raw water cooled.  By the model number I'm 
guessing that it is raw water cooled.  I don't have the manuals for the QM 
series but believe that they are the predecessor to the HM and GM.  As such 
many of the parts are interchangeable and much of the design is the same.  In 
my parts diagrams it shows 2 thermostats but only on the raw later cooled 
versions of the HM/GM.  I'll send you a picture off list.


Josh Muckley 

S/V Sea Hawk 

1989 C 37+

Solomons, MD 


On Sun, May 27, 2018, 8:35 AM William Walker via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Good morning,
   Yesterday I removed the thermostat cover on top of the exhaust manifold to  
replace the thermostat which I suspected was bad.  I have a yanmar service 
manual which has detailed drawings of the exhaust manifold on this sea water 
cooled engine.  To my surprise when I removed the cover there were TWO 
thermostats installed for and aft on starboard side of the exhaust manifold 
ports.  The Yanmar service manual shows only ONE, in the forward port.
Since I only had one new thermostat I installed it in the forward port on 
manifold, cleaned up the other from corrosion and put it back where it was.  
The second port is machined to accept a thermostat.
If you have a yanmar service manual, pictures of this on page 7-A-2 showing one 
thermostat.
Since these two ports are connected internally and water can flow through both 
I am thinking that this is a safety factor.  If one fails the other still may 
open and allow cooling water to engine.
Any thoughts if this second thermostats belongs there?  I have been running 
this engine with it in place for 7 years and I suspect prior owner did as well 
for a time.
Bill Walker
Evening Star 
CnC 36
Pentwater, Mi 

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

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___

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every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List thermostat on 3QM30H

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Is your engine fresh water or raw water cooled.  By the model number I'm
guessing that it is raw water cooled.  I don't have the manuals for the QM
series but believe that they are the predecessor to the HM and GM.  As such
many of the parts are interchangeable and much of the design is the same.
In my parts diagrams it shows 2 thermostats but only on the raw later
cooled versions of the HM/GM.  I'll send you a picture off list.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Sun, May 27, 2018, 8:35 AM William Walker via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Good morning,
>Yesterday I removed the thermostat cover on top of the exhaust manifold
> to  replace the thermostat which I suspected was bad.  I have a yanmar
> service manual which has detailed drawings of the exhaust manifold on this
> sea water cooled engine.  To my surprise when I removed the cover there
> were TWO thermostats installed for and aft on starboard side of the exhaust
> manifold ports.  The Yanmar service manual shows only ONE, in the forward
> port.
> Since I only had one new thermostat I installed it in the forward port on
> manifold, cleaned up the other from corrosion and put it back where it
> was.  The second port is machined to accept a thermostat.
> If you have a yanmar service manual, pictures of this on page 7-A-2
> showing one thermostat.
> Since these two ports are connected internally and water can flow through
> both I am thinking that this is a safety factor.  If one fails the other
> still may open and allow cooling water to engine.
> Any thoughts if this second thermostats belongs there?  I have been
> running this engine with it in place for 7 years and I suspect prior owner
> did as well for a time.
> Bill Walker
> Evening Star
> CnC 36
> Pentwater, Mi
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Stus-List thermostat on 3QM30H

[William Walker via CnC-List]

Good morning,
   Yesterday I removed the thermostat cover on top of the exhaust manifold to  
replace the thermostat which I suspected was bad.  I have a yanmar service 
manual which has detailed drawings of the exhaust manifold on this sea water 
cooled engine.  To my surprise when I removed the cover there were TWO 
thermostats installed for and aft on starboard side of the exhaust manifold 
ports.  The Yanmar service manual shows only ONE, in the forward port.
Since I only had one new thermostat I installed it in the forward port on 
manifold, cleaned up the other from corrosion and put it back where it was.  
The second port is machined to accept a thermostat.
If you have a yanmar service manual, pictures of this on page 7-A-2 showing one 
thermostat.
Since these two ports are connected internally and water can flow through both 
I am thinking that this is a safety factor.  If one fails the other still may 
open and allow cooling water to engine.
Any thoughts if this second thermostats belongs there?  I have been running 
this engine with it in place for 7 years and I suspect prior owner did as well 
for a time.
Bill Walker
Evening Star 
CnC 36
Pentwater, Mi 

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Re: Stus-List Hull lines/Sections, 41

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

Hello Tom,

Have you contacted Doug Cowie, Manager of the Marine Museum of the Great
Lakes at Kingston at (613) 542-2261 ( mana...@marmuseum.ca) ?

The Marine Museum of the Great Lakes in Kingston, Ontario has in its
archives many of the original C Design and Construction Drawings dating
from 1972 through the late 1980s.  I see the 41 is in the list below.

https://www.proboat.com/2013/03/george-cuthbertson/

Ken Heaton

*C Drawings Finally United*


*March 14, 2008*  - History was not only made, it was reunited  at the home
of George and Helen Cuthbertson in Milton, Ontario.  Tim Jackett of Grand
River Marine, the current designer and builder of C yachts, agreed to
donate their archive C drawings, dating from 1972 through the late 80's,
to the Marine Museum of the Great Lakes, Kingston, Ontario. Maurice Smith,
Curator was on hand to receive them.

Starting with the famous “Red Jacket”, C Yachts flourished as the
pre-eminent yacht design and building company beginning from it's
incorporation in 1967.  In 1996 the brand and its intellectual materials
were acquired and moved to Fairport, Ohio, where the current company has
continued the C legacy with the production of a new line of C yachts,
designed by Tim Jackett and the current C design team.

When George retired from the original C he donated all of the early C
drawings under his design leadership to the Museum as well as his design
drawings that predated C   The weekend saw the reunion of these
impressive catalogs of work.  On behalf of C Yachts, Tim graciously
presented these later C drawings to complete the C Design archives
under the care of the Marine Museum of the Great Lakes. These original hand
executed drawings in ink and pencil on paper and Mylar will be digitally
preserved and copies offered to all who might be interested, both through
the Museum and through C Yachts. The museum will be accepting monetary
donations to help cover the cost of digitizing and reproduction of the
completed collection of drawings.

The drawings include such early George Cuthbertson C classics as the
Corvette, Red Wing 30, C 25, 27, 30, 35, 39, 43, and 61s, as well as
later Rob Ball classics such as the C 27, 29, 33, 34, 38, and the
remarkable C 40, and the C 37R, and C 41s, not to mention the
custom one-offs Amazing Grace, Silver Shadow, Charisma, Majistry, and many
many more production and custom designs from this prolific and talented
design office that included such notables as George Cassian, Ted Brewer,
Mark Ellis, Steve Killing, Rob Mazza, George Hazen, Henry Adrience, Bill
Goman, and many other talented designers.


On 26 May 2018 at 23:38, tom hoffmann via CnC-List 
wrote:

> My apologies for the previous note, sent in error.
>
> I am searching for lines/sections for the 41 and hoping someone may be of
> help.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Tom
>
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>
>
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Stus-List (no subject)

[Erik Hillenmeyer via CnC-List]

http://service.curediabeteswithoutdrugs.com

Erik Hillenmeyer

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