Re: atomic clock / radio-receiver chip

[Arne Kristian Jansen]

Federico Lorenzi skrev:

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Ilja O. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 9:26 PM, cdr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


And portable thermonuclear bomb. Just in case. (Well, phone is already
hand interface to several orbital atomic clocks, isn't it?)


the atomic clock(s) arent orbiting the earth,

  

But why there are no clocks at the orbit? They could be useful enough.
E.g. if there are several of them each on predefined geostationary
orbit we could do lots of useful things with them! For example, we
could prove that general relativity indeed exists (although ionosphere
would likely to spoil party at some degree).


Huh, I'm a little confused about whats being spoken about here, but
the GPS satellites are effectively giant orbiting atomic clocks, its
the basis of GPS.

Cheers,
Federico

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Indeed they are:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System
(under Simplified method of operation).

And if the satellites did not take the relativity theory into account, 
they would be useless. The accuracy would be awful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System#Relativity

Arne K

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Re: OpenMoko on Treo 650

[freac_check]

Hi Kyle...I build Openmoko for the Treo 650 some times ago, but it is _very_ 
slow. GSM doesn't really work. There isn't much progress on porting Linux to 
Palm Treo 650. Maybe you can ask in the #hackndev channel on freenode. 

zefanja

> Hey folks,
> 
> Following on from the info on 
> http://blog.mikeasoft.com/2007/07/01/openmoko-on-a-treo-650/ Can anyone 
> advise on whether gsmd now works on the 650? It would be great if 
> OpenMoko was fully functional on the Treo 650 :-)
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Kyle

-- 
Pt! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört?
Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger

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Re: new iphone

[Robert Taylor]

On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 2:21 AM, Christian Benke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

Good evening!

So who of you is thinking about buying the new iphone instead of an
openmoko in case the technical specs really improve(3G, better
resolution)?

If you are willing to exchange your freedom for a few beads, then you 
don't deserve freedom.


Remember, choices today will reap you rewards tomorrow.

In a strange way it's like the allegory in the Matrix trilogy - the jail 
is beautiful, comfortable and warm, freedom is harsh, unforgiving and cold.


But in the end, a jail is still a jail and a slave is still a slave.

This ultimately is the choice you must make - stand with the free and 
die trying or enjoy your jail and die a slave.



Choose.


Note: Yes, it's a bit melodramatic on the surface, but I think we can 
all start to feel the undertow of a lot of political, social and 
philosophical movements once again under way globally.  I have this 
uneasy feeling that our choices around freedom just may have much more 
significant implications that we realize right now.


Apologies for bringing politics into essentially technological forum.

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Re: new iphone

[thomasg]

There's a nice german saying for that (also a film title): Und täglich grüßt
das Murmeltier...

On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 1:21 AM, Christian Benke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Good evening!
>
> So who of you is thinking about buying the new iphone instead of an
> openmoko in case the technical specs really improve(3G, better
> resolution)?
> I'd love to have a open smartphone, but there are so many compromises
> with the openmoko project(hardware lacks, formfactor,
> unfinished software) and the timing for the release is bad unfortunately
> (on the other side the people interested in openmoko are not
> necessarily interested in the iphone - However, i guess there will be
> some people who drop the idea of buying a moko after next weeks apple
> conference...)
> I feel bad about this decision, i'm not willing to use proprietary
> software anywhere in my environment, neither work nor private, but the
> hardware side of the iphone is presumably better(3G, bigger screen) and
> the software is just _ready_. I'm kind of in a dilemma right now, on
> the one hand i know i'll hate the closeness of OSX at some point (Just
> like it happened with Windows 7 years ago) and would love to be able to
> do what i want with my smartphone, on the other hand i'm not a
> developer (i do some scripting but i'm far from any serious software
> hacking) and i don't have the skills to fix annoying bugs and will have
> to wait another few months till the software is in a useable state
> and a freerunner could get a expensive toy for me if development is not
> accelerating as fast as i expect it to after the release :-(
>
> I guess the freerunner will not get available in the next week so i can
> still decide, probably i'm lucky and all the speculations about the
> iphone are untrue(only 3G is not a (OM-)dealbreaker for me) ;-)
>
> My favourite would still be a Nokia E70 with a useable linux-OS, i
> just loved the gullwing formfactor - if just Symbian wasn't such a
> crutch, and a bit more RAM would also not hurt on the E70...
>
> my 2 cents
> Christian
>
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Re: new iphone

[Michele Renda]

Christian Benke wrote:

Good evening!

  

Good morning

So who of you is thinking about buying the new iphone instead of an
openmoko in case the technical specs really improve(3G, better
resolution)?
I'd love to have a open smartphone, but there are so many compromises
with the openmoko project(hardware lacks, formfactor,
unfinished software) and the timing for the release is bad unfortunately
(on the other side the people interested in openmoko are not
necessarily interested in the iphone - However, i guess there will be
some people who drop the idea of buying a moko after next weeks apple
conference...)
It is so. Freerunner != IPhone. This doesn't mean that Freerunner > 
IPhone or FreeRunner < IPhone.

Are two DIFFERENT products.
Who decide to spend 299 Euro (For who like me live in Italy) to buy a 
GPRS phone, I think he has his reasons to buy it.


I think a person need to buy a Openmoko, another a IPhone, another a 
phone that just call. There is nothing bad.
But personally I don't think that a person that planned to give the 
amount of a house rend (my rent fee < 1 Freerunner) very difficult will 
switch to a Iphone, only after a conference. Because these are two 
different products.


I feel bad about this decision, i'm not willing to use proprietary
software anywhere in my environment, neither work nor private, but the
hardware side of the iphone is presumably better(3G, bigger screen) and
the software is just _ready_. 
The problem is that now the world don't let to use OUR hardware how we 
want. Or we use the full hardware performance paying with closeness, or 
we have full control of OUR hardware, but we are forced to use reduced 
performances.
It is like when we buy a car but someone forbide to open the engine to 
install an air conditioner, or to mount a radio that we like. In new car 
it happen already so, warning you that if you change something without 
their reseller, your warranty will expire. You think that the object is 
your than more in fact is more a rented car.
The same is now with chips. You think that the chips you bought is your, 
but that to know how to use it you have to pay a lot and to sign tones 
of NDA.



I'm kind of in a dilemma right now, on
the one hand i know i'll hate the closeness of OSX at some point (Just
like it happened with Windows 7 years ago) and would love to be able to
do what i want with my smartphone, on the other hand i'm not a
developer (i do some scripting but i'm far from any serious software
hacking) and i don't have the skills to fix annoying bugs and will have
to wait another few months till the software is in a useable state
and a freerunner could get a expensive toy for me if development is not
accelerating as fast as i expect it to after the release :-(

  
Openmoko will give you with a running, tested and ready firmware for 
basic usage. It is the GTK version of their application. A new software 
will come when ready, that will improve a lot of things. But for now it 
is not yes usable.

I guess the freerunner will not get available in the next week so i can
still decide, probably i'm lucky and all the speculations about the
iphone are untrue(only 3G is not a (OM-)dealbreaker for me) ;-)

My favourite would still be a Nokia E70 with a useable linux-OS, i
just loved the gullwing formfactor - if just Symbian wasn't such a
crutch, and a bit more RAM would also not hurt on the E70...
  
I think I explained well my point of view. In every case don't feel down 
if you decide for IPhone. This only mean to satisfy your need IPhone is 
better for you. I used it and it is nice. But Freerunner is (for me) 
something realy different, and I prefer to spend my money is it than in 
a IPhone. World is nice because every person is free to choose what he want.


Good choose :)

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Re: new iphone

[Brandon Kruse]

Iphone's suck.

--
Sent from my iPhone

:)

On Jun 1, 2008, at 6:21 PM, Christian Benke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:



Good evening!

So who of you is thinking about buying the new iphone instead of an
openmoko in case the technical specs really improve(3G, better
resolution)?
I'd love to have a open smartphone, but there are so many compromises
with the openmoko project(hardware lacks, formfactor,
unfinished software) and the timing for the release is bad  
unfortunately

(on the other side the people interested in openmoko are not
necessarily interested in the iphone - However


It is really a matter of supporting the community and helping the  
product launch. Apple has tons of developers, a big fanboy base, and  
lots of software already written


I think I speak on behalf of the community when I say we are here for  
the long run, to help, and see the product grow into an everyday  
apperance when you are walking around.


I, for one, dont go jumping on iPhone mailing lists trying to enhance  
the product as I am at the very end of the food chain.


Its a great oppurtunity to help and get involved and be unique :)

My .2 cents :)


, i guess there will be
some people who drop the idea of buying a moko after next weeks apple
conference...)
I feel bad about this decision, i'm not willing to use proprietary
software anywhere in my environment, neither work nor private, but the
hardware side of the iphone is presumably better(3G, bigger screen)  
and

the software is just _ready_. I'm kind of in a dilemma right now, on
the one hand i know i'll hate the closeness of OSX at some point (Just
like it happened with Windows 7 years ago) and would love to be able  
to

do what i want with my smartphone, on the other hand i'm not a
developer (i do some scripting but i'm far from any serious software
hacking) and i don't have the skills to fix annoying bugs and will  
have

to wait another few months till the software is in a useable state
and a freerunner could get a expensive toy for me if development is  
not

accelerating as fast as i expect it to after the release :-(

I guess the freerunner will not get available in the next week so i  
can

still decide, probably i'm lucky and all the speculations about the
iphone are untrue(only 3G is not a (OM-)dealbreaker for me) ;-)

My favourite would still be a Nokia E70 with a useable linux-OS, i
just loved the gullwing formfactor - if just Symbian wasn't such a
crutch, and a bit more RAM would also not hurt on the E70...

my 2 cents
Christian

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Re: do not need _any_ interface features

[Brandon Kruse]

I dont think its a hardware problem. If your talking about Internet  
over gsm, you could put the fastest computer with no GUI on a GPRS  
signal, and its still GPRS.


--
Brandon Kruse

On Jun 1, 2008, at 8:09 PM, "Michael Kremliovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:



 If I do not want to have any UI and I do not need voice, can I
reliably send data with a reasonable speed? If so, what are the
benchmark speeds?
  Michael

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Re: new iphone

[Ilja O.]

On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 2:21 AM, Christian Benke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Good evening!
>
> So who of you is thinking about buying the new iphone instead of an
> openmoko in case the technical specs really improve(3G, better
> resolution)?

Nope
Well, first of all, iphone is not sold legally in my country of
living. Then, I do not want to use phone, that requires me to pay for
changing the ring tone. And since I'm myself am a developer, I don't
like to steal software at all (imho that's just not right thing to do
-- to steal something that I'm myself is being paid for).

Imho, freedom is much more valuable than any piece of hardware
(Although I'm not against shareware). And Freerunners' is not so bad.

As for OM, i'll wait till the end of summer. If phone won't be out,
than it's never will be out, so I'll bury OM deep beneath the ground
(let's face it -- there are similar projects, none of them is as open
as OM, but OM is not releasing phone yet).

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Join the "Embedded and Mobile Day" at Akademy 2008, August 12, Belgium

[Bart Cerneels]

Hello,

In the time honored tradition of the KDE community we organize special
side-events during our yearly World Summit.
A big part of the mind share in the Open Source world the past year
has gone to Mobile and Embedded platforms; where the technical and
Freedom aspects seem to favor our preferred software development model
over proprietary methods. This is the reason why the EmSys research
group and KDE organize this meeting of interested parties in the
context of the major community event, Akademy 2008.

The "Embedded and Mobile Day" will feature several talks and a closing
panel discussion about the achievements and opportunities of Open
Desktop and other Open Source projects in the Small Form-Factor world.
The presentations should be oriented towards an audience
"knowledgeable" about embedded development, not the general KDE
developers. Meanwhile KDE and other Open Source hackers will be
testing consumer devices and the desktop applications they are meant
to interface with during a "plugfest", for which anyone is most
welcome to provide hardware contributions.

Topics can include, but are in no way limited to:
* Embedded Linux
* Mobile and integrated GUI's
* System Integration
* Embedded Development tools and distro's
* Innovation based on Open Source and Open Desktop technology

More details on the website at http://akademy.kde.org/events/emmobile.php .

This is your chance to contribute and share your ideas, project or
demonstrations by sending a topic proposal to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] before June 16th.

Feel free to forward this email to as many people as possible.

Bart Cerneels
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
irc: Stecchino on freenode
Akademy 2008 organizer
First point of contact for everything venue related
cellphone +32496100633

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RE: Our new Main page of wiki

[steve]

Thanks Brenda,



I spent too many years teaching writing, so I had a small advantage.  WRT
the sentence below Join Openmoko development.

I’ll go back and look at that. Generally, if it’s not necessary I cut it.

I removed the Dev Board QT2410, because it was my impression that it was out
of date and not critical. I could be wrong

on that, if people scream, then adjust.



Ideally I would like to see three branches



1. A product branch that forks to all past and future products.

2. A developer branch that forks to all matters software.

3. A community branch that forks to community issues, like projects, blogs,
wiki instructions, buying lists, etc



There is also some duplication in the various links that needs cleaning up



  _

From: BrendaWang [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 1:20 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion; steve
Subject: Re: Our new Main page of wiki



Dear Steve:
I notice that you edited the Main page of wiki.
The wording is better then me. I like it.
Thank you for doing this.
But I don't understand why you took off the sentence  below "Join Openmoko
development"?
And development  board--QT2410?
Can you tell me why?

Actually , I know that our main page is too long. I would like to make whole
wiki site become  short and organized.
But technically , I can't solve that problem in a very short time.
I just used the Google Analytic to find out the most popular page , then I
use the box, put the link all together.
Use the aggressive color and put the categories page on side bar, to make
pages easy to find.
I also use the Google Analytic to find out the most popular browser, use the
right tag, make sure most of them can use wiki more easily.
I got a lot of feedback here.

And now ,  Gismo is helping us to upgrade our wiki system.
After wiki system had been upgraded , I would start to work on server site.
For example , I would like to change the wiki skin. And page structure.
 I think I would need technical support. And I will ask anyone who can help
me.
Anyway, the real meaning of Wiki is collaboration.
Thank for you help , and hope you can understand what I am doing now.

Brenda



And I like it. :-)

steve 提到:

 It's getting there.
-Original Message-
From: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 8:15 PM
To: steve
Cc: 'List for Openmoko community discussion'
Subject: Re: Our new Main page of wiki

On Fri, 2 May 2008 17:13:06 -0700 "steve"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

indeed - it's not bad. no complaints. just observation. :) we all have got
lots
of things to do... :)



Yes, It is a bit long. And it always has been. Brenda is working the
Structure of the site ( like Edward scissorshand trimming kudzu) and I


told


wolfgang I would do my marketing thing on the front page. I will of course
make some suggestions on organization and structure ( you know me raster )
but for now, I will let it rest, as I have other matters to attend to.
The current structure is rhapsodic and so is not easily maintained,
especially as new products come out. So, I'll share some thoughts later.

Laconically yours,
Steve

-Original Message-
From: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 5:03 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Cc: steve
Subject: Re: Our new Main page of wiki

On Fri, 2 May 2008 14:25:18 -0700 "steve"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

seems ok to me, though a little long :) but that's how it has been for a
while. :)



In any case I did a quick copy edit of the front page. Have a look, I


will


probably polish it some more later on and add some of my writing from


the


.com.

PS, Raster is right.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 12:55 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Cc: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
Subject: Re: Our new Main page of wiki

Am Fr  2. Mai 2008 schrieb Carsten Haitzler:


On Thu, 1 May 2008 13:35:24 -0400 "Nick Guenther"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


babbled:


I think it's a little ridiculous to leave it when at least she takes


the


initiative to do something. Sure - Brenda does not speak English as a


native


language. You are free to fix it up with your perfect English


intuition.


It
is


a wiki after all. Perhaps she might help you with your good, yet not


so


perfect


chinese? :)

Seriously. I have learnt several languages. I know how hard it is to


speak


a


foreign language. It is damned hard. It's even harder when the


language


is


of


a completely different language school (i.e. European vs. Asian


languages).
The


fact that someone can communicate as well as Brenda can, in a foreign


language,


is simply amazing. It is a mountain of work. Everyone should be as


supportive as


possible. It is no easy task. The fact tha

Re: atomic clock / radio-receiver chip

[Ilja O.]

> Huh, I'm a little confused about whats being spoken about here, but
> the GPS satellites are effectively giant orbiting atomic clocks, its
> the basis of GPS.
>


> Hey,
>
> According to wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS ), every GPS 
> satellite carries an atomic clock, providing every receiver on earth with 
> really precise clock. The radio clock systems
> you describe are different and kinda useless when you have GPS onboard.
>
> As an engineer I'm stunned by the level of performance achieved of the GPS 
> system : the description of Einstein's relativity compensation on the WP 
> article is really scary :)

Doh, people. You've spoiled all the fun! :(

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Re: Open Hardware

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Chris Wright writes:
>Openmoko phones are as cheap as they are because they use commodity
>hardware, I'm given to understand. If you wanted a phone with open
>hardware, you'd probably be paying thousands for all the custom
>components. Plus there's testing and certification for various parts,
>which probably is also expensive
>
>It's doable, but it'd be harder by far than the OGP. And consider that
>the first card released by the OGP costs $1500, which is two or three
>times the cost of the more expensive commodity cards, while delivering
>less performance (their target is 20fps in Quake 3 at 1280x1024).

See http://www.opencellphone.org/index.php?title=Main_Page for a
project trying to do this.  Looks like it's been a couple of years
since the web page was updated, though.

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do not need _any_ interface features

[Michael Kremliovsky]

  If I do not want to have any UI and I do not need voice, can I
reliably send data with a reasonable speed? If so, what are the
benchmark speeds?
   Michael

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OpenMoko on Treo 650

[Kyle Gordon]

Hey folks,

Following on from the info on 
http://blog.mikeasoft.com/2007/07/01/openmoko-on-a-treo-650/ Can anyone 
advise on whether gsmd now works on the 650? It would be great if 
OpenMoko was fully functional on the Treo 650 :-)


Cheers

Kyle

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new iphone

[Christian Benke]

Good evening!

So who of you is thinking about buying the new iphone instead of an
openmoko in case the technical specs really improve(3G, better
resolution)? 
I'd love to have a open smartphone, but there are so many compromises
with the openmoko project(hardware lacks, formfactor,
unfinished software) and the timing for the release is bad unfortunately
(on the other side the people interested in openmoko are not
necessarily interested in the iphone - However, i guess there will be
some people who drop the idea of buying a moko after next weeks apple
conference...) 
I feel bad about this decision, i'm not willing to use proprietary
software anywhere in my environment, neither work nor private, but the
hardware side of the iphone is presumably better(3G, bigger screen) and
the software is just _ready_. I'm kind of in a dilemma right now, on
the one hand i know i'll hate the closeness of OSX at some point (Just
like it happened with Windows 7 years ago) and would love to be able to
do what i want with my smartphone, on the other hand i'm not a
developer (i do some scripting but i'm far from any serious software
hacking) and i don't have the skills to fix annoying bugs and will have
to wait another few months till the software is in a useable state
and a freerunner could get a expensive toy for me if development is not
accelerating as fast as i expect it to after the release :-( 

I guess the freerunner will not get available in the next week so i can
still decide, probably i'm lucky and all the speculations about the
iphone are untrue(only 3G is not a (OM-)dealbreaker for me) ;-)

My favourite would still be a Nokia E70 with a useable linux-OS, i
just loved the gullwing formfactor - if just Symbian wasn't such a
crutch, and a bit more RAM would also not hurt on the E70...

my 2 cents
Christian

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Re: Freerunner test

[Lorn Potter]

Andy Green wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:

| If someone knows what to do to get gps device going and can instruct me,
| Qtopia 4.4 has a mapping demo for testing. It has both nmea and gpsd
plugins.

Here is a standalone shell script to see GPS NMEA that shows what needs
to happen.

echo 0 > /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/neo1973-pm-gps.0/pwron &&\
sleep 1s && \
echo 1 > /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/neo1973-pm-gps.0/pwron &&\
stty -F /dev/ttySAC1 -echo && \
cat -u /dev/ttySAC1 | grep -v ^$


Thanks for that.

I can report that the gta02 device I have, gps is working fine. :) Seems to get 
a fix faster than gta01.





--
Lorn 'ljp' Potter
Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech


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Re: atomic clock / radio-receiver chip

[AVee]

On Sunday 01 June 2008 21:33, Ilja O. wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 9:26 PM, cdr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> And portable thermonuclear bomb. Just in case. (Well, phone is already
> >> hand interface to several orbital atomic clocks, isn't it?)
> >
> > the atomic clock(s) arent orbiting the earth,
>
> But why there are no clocks at the orbit? They could be useful enough.
> E.g. if there are several of them each on predefined geostationary
> orbit we could do lots of useful things with them! For example, we
> could prove that general relativity indeed exists (although ionosphere
> would likely to spoil party at some degree).

You could actually use it to calculate your position anywhere on the surface 
of the earth. Lets call it Global Positioning System (GPS). 

Really, what you describe here is exactly what GPS does, and you can indeed 
use GPS to get an acurate time...

AVee

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Re: atomic clock / radio-receiver chip

[polz]

On Sunday 01 June 2008 21:33:15 Ilja O. wrote:

> But why there are no clocks at the orbit? They could be useful enough.
> E.g. if there are several of them each on predefined geostationary
> orbit we could do lots of useful things with them! For example, we
> could prove that general relativity indeed exists (although ionosphere
> would likely to spoil party at some degree).
>

Or you could add a radio transmitter to each of the clocks in lower, almost 
circular orbits, and then use the differences between the times recieved from 
multiple orbiting atomic clocks to pinpoint your locations. You'd need a lot 
of them, though, probably something like 24 clocks in 3 orbital planes. OK, 
maybe you could get by with 21, if you beleived you don't need any spares.

But naah, that would never work ;>.

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Re: Open Hardware

[Brandon Kruse]

I am not sure how low-level you are talking, but driver wise, you can  
expose the API given from specific manufactures over a socket (like  
capi I believe)


I guess some could be opened sourced, but when it comes to TI and the  
gsm radio, I dont see anyone that would allow for that. Again, it  
depends on the level of access. If you mean firmware design, I bet its  
all licensing issues.


Please, Correct me if I'm wrong.

That is just how I understand it ;)

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On Jun 1, 2008, at 8:53 AM, "Chris Wright" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Openmoko phones are as cheap as they are because they use commodity
hardware, I'm given to understand. If you wanted a phone with open
hardware, you'd probably be paying thousands for all the custom
components. Plus there's testing and certification for various parts,
which probably is also expensive

It's doable, but it'd be harder by far than the OGP. And consider that
the first card released by the OGP costs $1500, which is two or three
times the cost of the more expensive commodity cards, while delivering
less performance (their target is 20fps in Quake 3 at 1280x1024).

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Re: atomic clock / radio-receiver chip

[Philippe Guillebert]

cdr wrote:

the atomic clock(s) arent orbiting the earth,


Hey,

According to wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS ), every GPS 
satellite carries an atomic clock, providing every receiver on earth 
with really precise clock. The radio clock systems you describe are 
different and kinda useless when you have GPS onboard.


As an engineer I'm stunned by the level of performance achieved of the 
GPS system : the description of Einstein's relativity compensation on 
the WP article is really scary :)



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Re: Open Hardware

[Lee Grime]

Also, the performance is lower because OGP are using an FPGA and not an
ASIC, the same code can be used for an ASIC which will run much faster.


On Sun, 2008-06-01 at 09:53 -0400, Chris Wright wrote:
> Openmoko phones are as cheap as they are because they use commodity
> hardware, I'm given to understand. If you wanted a phone with open
> hardware, you'd probably be paying thousands for all the custom
> components. Plus there's testing and certification for various parts,
> which probably is also expensive
> 
> It's doable, but it'd be harder by far than the OGP. And consider that
> the first card released by the OGP costs $1500, which is two or three
> times the cost of the more expensive commodity cards, while delivering
> less performance (their target is 20fps in Quake 3 at 1280x1024).
> 
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Re: Open Hardware

[Lee Grime]

Like i mentioned it is a question of scale, a SoC if you already have
most of the IP cores will not be hard to design. (the processor could be
the stumbling block however)

have a look here for IP that is already available

http://www.opencores.org/browse.cgi/by_category

You are paying nothing for custom components.

The masks for the ASIC will be the big initial cost, but if you sell
enough silicon it becomes less of an issue.

On Sun, 2008-06-01 at 09:53 -0400, Chris Wright wrote:
> Openmoko phones are as cheap as they are because they use commodity
> hardware, I'm given to understand. If you wanted a phone with open
> hardware, you'd probably be paying thousands for all the custom
> components. Plus there's testing and certification for various parts,
> which probably is also expensive
> 
> It's doable, but it'd be harder by far than the OGP. And consider that
> the first card released by the OGP costs $1500, which is two or three
> times the cost of the more expensive commodity cards, while delivering
> less performance (their target is 20fps in Quake 3 at 1280x1024).
> 
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Re: atomic clock / radio-receiver chip

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Ilja O. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 9:26 PM, cdr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> And portable thermonuclear bomb. Just in case. (Well, phone is already
>>> hand interface to several orbital atomic clocks, isn't it?)
>>
>> the atomic clock(s) arent orbiting the earth,
>>
>
>
> But why there are no clocks at the orbit? They could be useful enough.
> E.g. if there are several of them each on predefined geostationary
> orbit we could do lots of useful things with them! For example, we
> could prove that general relativity indeed exists (although ionosphere
> would likely to spoil party at some degree).
Huh, I'm a little confused about whats being spoken about here, but
the GPS satellites are effectively giant orbiting atomic clocks, its
the basis of GPS.

Cheers,
Federico

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RE: atomic clock / radio-receiver chip

[Tim Newsom]

I have one (or something equivalent) in my watch (Casio Pathfinder Wave
Ceptor). It synchronizes the time of my watch every night at midnight.
/shrug

--Tim

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of cdr
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 11:26 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: atomic clock / radio-receiver chip

> And portable thermonuclear bomb. Just in case. (Well, phone is already
> hand interface to several orbital atomic clocks, isn't it?)

the atomic clock(s) arent orbiting the earth,

to receive the one in Colorado (or Hawaii, 3330 in Canada..), youd need some
chip like Si4735

http://www.silabs.com/public/documents/marcom_doc/mcoll/Broadcast/Radio_Tune
rs/en/Si473x_Presentation.pdf


their doc shows ipods, phones, and handheld PCs.

has anyone besides the DSP-Rado people actually put this in _any_ product,
let alone a phone?


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Re: atomic clock / radio-receiver chip

[Ilja O.]

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 9:26 PM, cdr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> And portable thermonuclear bomb. Just in case. (Well, phone is already
>> hand interface to several orbital atomic clocks, isn't it?)
>
> the atomic clock(s) arent orbiting the earth,
>


But why there are no clocks at the orbit? They could be useful enough.
E.g. if there are several of them each on predefined geostationary
orbit we could do lots of useful things with them! For example, we
could prove that general relativity indeed exists (although ionosphere
would likely to spoil party at some degree).

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atomic clock / radio-receiver chip

[cdr]

> And portable thermonuclear bomb. Just in case. (Well, phone is already
> hand interface to several orbital atomic clocks, isn't it?)

the atomic clock(s) arent orbiting the earth,

to receive the one in Colorado (or Hawaii, 3330 in Canada..), youd need some 
chip like Si4735

http://www.silabs.com/public/documents/marcom_doc/mcoll/Broadcast/Radio_Tuners/en/Si473x_Presentation.pdf


their doc shows ipods, phones, and handheld PCs.

has anyone besides the DSP-Rado people actually put this in _any_ product, let 
alone a phone?


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Re: Private data protection.

[Ilja O.]

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 6:43 PM, Esben Stien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Ilja O." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> Current phone number would be enough information. SMS to a friend
>> that gives this number to you...
>
> It's like being at a party and your lighter is gone. You need a homing
> device to pin point which pocket it's in;).
>
> Maybe another solution here is to have an RFID on it, so you can swipe
> everybodys' pockets;).
>

And portable thermonuclear bomb. Just in case. (Well, phone is already
hand interface to several orbital atomic clocks, isn't it?)

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Re: Private data protection.

[Esben Stien]

"Ilja O." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Current phone number would be enough information. SMS to a friend
> that gives this number to you...

It's like being at a party and your lighter is gone. You need a homing
device to pin point which pocket it's in;).

Maybe another solution here is to have an RFID on it, so you can swipe
everybodys' pockets;).

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Re: Open Hardware

[Chris Wright]

Openmoko phones are as cheap as they are because they use commodity
hardware, I'm given to understand. If you wanted a phone with open
hardware, you'd probably be paying thousands for all the custom
components. Plus there's testing and certification for various parts,
which probably is also expensive

It's doable, but it'd be harder by far than the OGP. And consider that
the first card released by the OGP costs $1500, which is two or three
times the cost of the more expensive commodity cards, while delivering
less performance (their target is 20fps in Quake 3 at 1280x1024).

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Re: Private data protection.

[Ilja O.]

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Philippe Guillebert
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ilja O. wrote:
>>
>> Who says that this password will be created by human? Program should
>> generate it automatically, shows it to user, user writes (or prints)
>> it and saves in piggy bank hoping he will not need it at all.
>> This function will be used so rare that there is not point in creating
>> rememberable passwords.
>>
>
> Hi,
>
> And then, when he doesn't have the neo anymore, he have to find where the
>  he put the code, run to a friend's with the piece of paper, "hey can I
> send an SMS ?", copy 160 random characters from a piece of paper with a
> crappy input method on the friend's phone and hope he didn't misspell a
> single bit of it or the whole process would be useless.
>
> Yeah, sounds very doable...
>

You can store this in file. Or we append simple hash to key itself.
Remembering one more password is much worse (it becomes even worser
when you remember that this password will be used (at most) only one
time. Who will be able to remember such password for an event with
such probability?).

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Open Hardware

[Lee Grime]

Hello All,

New subscriber, have been lurking for a long time.

Since the idea of Openmoko is to be fully open source, why can we not
have the same for hardware?

My background is in hardware design, specifically FPGA's and ASIC's.
The system on chip used by the NEO's could be designed as open source
making the whole concept even more open!  There already exists a
community for open source IP cores for silicon at opencores.org.  If we
can find enough like minded people we can develop our own SoC for future
freerunners.  You do need to be selling a lot of chips before it makes
financial sense to make your own ASIC, but if enough GTA02's are sold it
could give an idea if this is possible or not.

We can always make a prototype phone with an FPGA for development

What are the communities feelings on this?

Are there any other subscribers with the same background?

I am nothing to do with opencores.org by the way, but to me it looks
like it is looking for a project to pull everything together and this
would be ideal! 


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Re: Linux PDA with wifi?

[Michael 'Mickey' Lauer]

On Sunday 01 June 2008 00:39:00 Mike wrote:
> If I wanted a PDA the runs linux and has wifi, and gets good battery
> life, any suggestions?

Sharp SL-6000 (watch out, there are models without any connectivity, one with 
wifi, and one with bluetooth _and_ wifi).

:M:

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Re: gsmd question

[Michael 'Mickey' Lauer]

On Saturday 31 May 2008 04:49:04 Tick wrote:
> Hi Mickey,
> Though I was assigned to do other stuff for months, I think gsmd
> will wait for responses.

Yes, this is correct, you did a whole lot of good fixes to it. I was merely 
indicating the original approach. Sorry, if that was unclear.

:M:

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Re: Private data protection.

[Philippe Guillebert]

Ilja O. wrote:

Who says that this password will be created by human? Program should
generate it automatically, shows it to user, user writes (or prints)
it and saves in piggy bank hoping he will not need it at all.
This function will be used so rare that there is not point in creating
rememberable passwords.
  

Hi,

And then, when he doesn't have the neo anymore, he have to find where 
the  he put the code, run to a friend's with the piece of paper, 
"hey can I send an SMS ?", copy 160 random characters from a piece of 
paper with a crappy input method on the friend's phone and hope he 
didn't misspell a single bit of it or the whole process would be useless.


Yeah, sounds very doable...


--
Phyce

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Re: gsmd question

[Michael 'Mickey' Lauer]

On Saturday 31 May 2008 01:43:48 Bin Chen wrote:
> Whats the new design? Send AT CMD one at a time and wait the OK or
> ERROR for this command?

Yes. A new commands will only be sent once we received a confirmation 
(whatsoever) from the modem -- with the exception of a sending a cancelling 
character to cancel an in-progress command.

:M:

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Re: Private data protection.

[Joerg Reisenweber]

Am So  1. Juni 2008 schrieb Kim Alvefur:
> On Sun, 2008-06-01 at 10:55 +0300, Ilja O. wrote:
> > Also portable self-destruction hardware would be nice.
> 
> echo overload > /sys/devices/blaha/battery
> 

LOL :-)


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Re: Private data protection.

[Kim Alvefur]

On Sun, 2008-06-01 at 10:55 +0300, Ilja O. wrote:
> Also portable self-destruction hardware would be nice.

echo overload > /sys/devices/blaha/battery


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Re: Private data protection.

[Rahul Joshi]

Good info there from wiki. So, if someone were THAT (9 days) serious about
getting the data, he might as well re-flash the whole phone to avoid any
trace-backs, destroy root-kits etc. I know I would do that.
Which again brings us back to the same point, as the thread says... of DATA
protection and not the phone itself. If I am a data thief why will I bother
keeping the SD card on the phone. I will simply take it out, put it in my
memory card reader and start hacking it. The only way I wont be able to get
it (easily) if the data on the SD card itself was
hidden/encrypted/unreadable. We have to isolate the phone from data here.

Rahul J

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 4:38 AM, Ilja O. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 8:13 PM, Rahul Joshi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I'm no security expert but I'm pretty sure a lightweight 8 bit salt
> > encryption (security guys?) can give any dektop pc software enough
> trouble
> > to abort the attempt of trying to read a 256 meg worth of datacard,
> unless
> > it really belongs to the director operations FBI ;)
> >
>
> 
> Assume a user's secret key is stolen and he is known to use one of
> 200,000 English words as his password. The system uses a 8-bit salt.
> The amount of combinations is 256*20 = 5120.
> 
>
>  If attacker chacks one hash per second and has 64-core beowulf
> cluster it will require 9 days to check all possible combinations.
> That's not so much, imo.
> Also, processors are cheap these days one guy [1] has build 96-core
> machine (for unknown price).
>
> [1] http://helmer.sfe.se/
>
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Re: Private data protection.

[Ilja O.]

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Esben Stien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Rahul Joshi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> The "very" first thing a phone thief does is throw away the SIM.
>
> That's why, if a presence security code is not typed in every nth
> hour, the phone starts transmitting secretly its location over all
> available networks to your home system;).
>

Current phone number would be enough information. SMS to a friend that
gives this number to you...
Also it must do so every on poweron event. E.g. if phone haven't been
shacked the right way.

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Re: Private data protection.

[Ilja O.]

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Esben Stien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Rahul Joshi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> The "very" first thing a phone thief does is throw away the SIM.
>
> That's why, if a presence security code is not typed in every nth
> hour, the phone starts transmitting secretly its location over all
> available networks to your home system;).
>
> We need GNU radio in this device, so that we can implement a tracking
> beacon way to find the phone.
>

Also portable self-destruction hardware would be nice.

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Re: Private data protection.

[Esben Stien]

"Rahul Joshi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> The "very" first thing a phone thief does is throw away the SIM. 

That's why, if a presence security code is not typed in every nth
hour, the phone starts transmitting secretly its location over all
available networks to your home system;). 

We need GNU radio in this device, so that we can implement a tracking
beacon way to find the phone.

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