Re: [Cooker] Setting of name for 'localhost' is malfunctioning
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Any comment on this??? Buchan Milne wrote: Damien Chaumette wrote: Well, there are mutliples cases : o static IP you set your HOSTNAME (/etc/sysconfig/network) o DHCP you can ask a name to your DHCP server (DHCP_HOSTNAME), and it'll return either this one or another, then initscripts use it as your HOSTNAME. What if the dhcp server returns dhcp-vlan-adsl-xxx-xxx-xxx-xxx.myisp.mydomain.com and the user doesn't want to have hostname dhcp-vlan-adsl-xxx-xxx-xxx-xxx as hostname? Then you have zeroconf which is subdivided in two parts : o zcip which handle the IP dynamic configuration (only with DHCP) o tmdns always installed, to resolve names. Zeroconf hostname (/etc/tmdns.conf) is set to your real hostname value by default or one you specified in drakconnect. IMHO this is wrong. Hostname should be set, tmdns will use `hostname` if you don't set it manually in the config file. There is no case where you will want a different hostname taken by tmdns than `hostname`, so IMHO drakconnect should leave tmdns.conf alone. BTW, I think this issue is also causing problems for samba, since often HOSTNAME is unset, so `hostname` gives localhost. Then, samba uses this hostname, and clients try to connect to \\localhost, which obviously does not work. Also, this breaks the winbind setup, since 'smbpasswd -j' will either try and join to a pre-made account (in the case of a non-admin join), as localhost (which will not work), or it will try and create a new account (in the case of an admin-join), which will only work for the first machine joined this way (if at all). Finally, a number of packages generate self-signed certificates, either during installation or for first startup, and then the cert will have 'CN=localhost', so if ther use changes the hostname, they will have to regenerate or live with the complaints. This is a really major issue. No machine should *ever* use localhost as it's hostname if it is connected to a network, especially if running samba, cups, apache etc etc. I think I must file a bug on drakconnect, but I haven't had time to test this myself. Let user set a hardcoded hostname when using dhcp will only lead to unresolved names. No, that's precisely *why* tmdns will *default* to using the set hostname!!! It's fine if the IP resolves to multiple hostnames, but it's better that it resolves to the name the user wants (but this should be an advanced configuration). Please consider this issue ... it should not be necessary to touch tmdns.conf. Ever. Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/Rgq4rJK6UGDSBKcRAjapAJ9eRcvbmR0p0FsEuCy+fcC/o6Y7FQCfVcaw nHghL4RJf3qvjDMHNLYjKf0= =CI2/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- * Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. *
Re: [Cooker] Setting of name for 'localhost' is malfunctioning
On Friday 22 August 2003 14.21, Buchan Milne wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Any comment on this??? Buchan Milne wrote: Damien Chaumette wrote: Well, there are mutliples cases : o static IP you set your HOSTNAME (/etc/sysconfig/network) o DHCP you can ask a name to your DHCP server (DHCP_HOSTNAME), and it'll return either this one or another, then initscripts use it as your HOSTNAME. What if the dhcp server returns dhcp-vlan-adsl-xxx-xxx-xxx-xxx.myisp.mydomain.com and the user doesn't want to have hostname dhcp-vlan-adsl-xxx-xxx-xxx-xxx as hostname? Then you have zeroconf which is subdivided in two parts : o zcip which handle the IP dynamic configuration (only with DHCP) o tmdns always installed, to resolve names. Zeroconf hostname (/etc/tmdns.conf) is set to your real hostname value by default or one you specified in drakconnect. IMHO this is wrong. Hostname should be set, tmdns will use `hostname` if you don't set it manually in the config file. There is no case where you will want a different hostname taken by tmdns than `hostname`, so IMHO drakconnect should leave tmdns.conf alone. BTW, I think this issue is also causing problems for samba, since often HOSTNAME is unset, so `hostname` gives localhost. Then, samba uses this hostname, and clients try to connect to \\localhost, which obviously does not work. Also, this breaks the winbind setup, since 'smbpasswd -j' will either try and join to a pre-made account (in the case of a non-admin join), as localhost (which will not work), or it will try and create a new account (in the case of an admin-join), which will only work for the first machine joined this way (if at all). Finally, a number of packages generate self-signed certificates, either during installation or for first startup, and then the cert will have 'CN=localhost', so if ther use changes the hostname, they will have to regenerate or live with the complaints. This is a really major issue. No machine should *ever* use localhost as it's hostname if it is connected to a network, especially if running samba, cups, apache etc etc. I think I must file a bug on drakconnect, but I haven't had time to test this myself. Let user set a hardcoded hostname when using dhcp will only lead to unresolved names. No, that's precisely *why* tmdns will *default* to using the set hostname!!! It's fine if the IP resolves to multiple hostnames, but it's better that it resolves to the name the user wants (but this should be an advanced configuration). Please consider this issue ... it should not be necessary to touch tmdns.conf. Ever. Regards, Buchan I think you may rest on this pb as the new installation may have done the right thing. As a user I have the possibility to add both zeroconf and the full name of the computer. I used both and got: zeroconf = Pelles full hostname = Pelles.brisen.home.lan And got the following in /etc/sysconfig/network: HOSTNAME=Pelles.brisen.home.lan NETWORKING=yes The installation failed to boot but they seem to be on the right way. regards guran -- Mandrake Linux Cooker 9.2 kernel-2.4.22.0.6mdk-1-1mdk Only in a society that has 'a priori' defined what is the truth can the result from the evolution of life be defined false.
Re: [Cooker] Setting of name for 'localhost' is malfunctioning
On Wednesday 20 August 2003 18.53, Damien Chaumette wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (guran) writes: On Sunday 17 August 2003 13.24, Buchan Milne wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003, guran wrote: Hi Hd.img installation per 20030817 VERSION Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20030816 21:26 I have a firewall that runs a dhcpd on a Mdk 9.0. This is from my syslog: ( check out how postfix is trembling in respons to 'localhost',[EMAIL PROTECTED] guran]$) ... Yes, it is well-known that mail servers will not like using localhost as hostname. What is your point? What does `hostname` say? How/where did you set the hostname? What software do you think is at fault for this (or did you just not set the hostname)? You can always edit your /etc/postfix/main.cf, or turn postfix off, or many other things, but you haven't given us any useful informatio on what you are trying to accomplish, what you did etc etc, so currently your post doesn't help fix whatever you think is broken. Regards, Buchan I was trying to report something that I thought was a bug. During installation of LAN i used the graphic set and to 'zeroconf' I added Pelles as the name with no dots. In syslog you can see that mdk writes Aug 17 09:55:29 localhost tmdns[1665]: claim name Pelles.local, type 1 That is as far as that information gets. To my understanding the installation should put that name correctly into postfix. regards guran -- Mandrake Linux Cooker 9.2 in shabby Gnome on kernel-2.4.22.0.6mdk-1-1mdk Only in a society that has defined what is the truth can the Linux users choice be deminished. Well, there are mutliples cases : o static IP you set your HOSTNAME (/etc/sysconfig/network) o DHCP you can ask a name to your DHCP server (DHCP_HOSTNAME), and it'll return either this one or another, then initscripts use it as your HOSTNAME. Then you have zeroconf which is subdivided in two parts : o zcip which handle the IP dynamic configuration (only with DHCP) o tmdns always installed, to resolve names. Zeroconf hostname (/etc/tmdns.conf) is set to your real hostname value by default or one you specified in drakconnect. Let user set a hardcoded hostname when using dhcp will only lead to unresolved names. I think you and I are discussing different things. On this old box I have Crux 1.1, Arch 0.5, Slackware 9.0 RedHat 9.0 and I can tell you that all of them are capble of two things: 1 They are faster to contact my firewall Mdk 9.0. 2 They all give me the desired name in the 'terminal'. As you write up here you seem to know the very strings that all these 'functions' are using. How very difficult should it be to change a taken localhost.localdomain from the firewall and change it to Name.localdomain. guran -- Mandrake Linux Cooker 9.2 kernel-2.4.22.0.6mdk-1-1mdk Only in a society that has 'a priori' defined what is the truth can the result from the evolution of life be defined false.
Re: [Cooker] Setting of name for 'localhost' is malfunctioning
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Damien Chaumette wrote: Well, there are mutliples cases : o static IP you set your HOSTNAME (/etc/sysconfig/network) o DHCP you can ask a name to your DHCP server (DHCP_HOSTNAME), and it'll return either this one or another, then initscripts use it as your HOSTNAME. What if the dhcp server returns dhcp-vlan-adsl-xxx-xxx-xxx-xxx.myisp.mydomain.com and the user doesn't want to have hostname dhcp-vlan-adsl-xxx-xxx-xxx-xxx as hostname? Then you have zeroconf which is subdivided in two parts : o zcip which handle the IP dynamic configuration (only with DHCP) o tmdns always installed, to resolve names. Zeroconf hostname (/etc/tmdns.conf) is set to your real hostname value by default or one you specified in drakconnect. IMHO this is wrong. Hostname should be set, tmdns will use `hostname` if you don't set it manually in the config file. There is no case where you will want a different hostname taken by tmdns than `hostname`, so IMHO drakconnect should leave tmdns.conf alone. Let user set a hardcoded hostname when using dhcp will only lead to unresolved names. No, that's precisely *why* tmdns will *default* to using the set hostname!!! It's fine if the IP resolves to multiple hostnames, but it's better that it resolves to the name the user wants (but this should be an advanced configuration). Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/Q++MrJK6UGDSBKcRAuRSAKCyvS43a00EVCmNlQvVQ7So51AhZQCfawEF 9r6ZGVZDe0di/Mpfmfq0aM8= =+QSj -END PGP SIGNATURE- * Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. *
Re: [Cooker] Setting of name for 'localhost' is malfunctioning
On Sunday 17 August 2003 08:38 am, Buchan Milne wrote: BTW, does anyone know if tmdns is of any use? If all it's going to do is make `hostname` resolve on the local machine, we might as well use /etc/hosts for this. If the user has DHCP, chances are they have DNS, and tmdns is useless. Apparently the use of .local has some issues on Windows2000 domains when using default settings. If you recall, there was major discussions about the network changes during the runup to 9.1. IMO then, and still now, tmdns does nothing but add uneeded complexity, and if you uninstall it and run drakconnect, it reinstalls. The only reason tmdns can be useful is in a network of machines *not* connected to the internet, which *don't* use DHCP, and which *don't* have DNS. Thus, IMHO, tmdns should only be started if DHCP leases are not available (when using a zcip address), and *only* if tmdns can resolve names of other zeroconf machines. I believe this is true of zeroconf too. I have not run into one setup yet where zeroconf or tmdns have come into play. The only scenario I can think of is a home network, where no one is connected to the Internet persistently (eg dialup). Most people on broadband use some form of router, or only have one machine connected. Most business networks have either a static policy or a dhcp server and/or a proxy setup (mnf). Please note I haven't installed cooker recently, I will probably install beta2 today ... I am sure I filed a bug on this in 9.1 beta series, so please search in bugzilla -- /g Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book, inside a dog it's too dark to read -Groucho Marx
Re: [Cooker] Setting of name for 'localhost' is malfunctioning
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Greg Meyer wrote: On Sunday 17 August 2003 08:38 am, Buchan Milne wrote: The only reason tmdns can be useful is in a network of machines *not* connected to the internet, which *don't* use DHCP, and which *don't* have DNS. Thus, IMHO, tmdns should only be started if DHCP leases are not available (when using a zcip address), and *only* if tmdns can resolve names of other zeroconf machines. I believe this is true of zeroconf too. I have not run into one setup yet where zeroconf or tmdns have come into play. The only scenario I can think of is a home network, where no one is connected to the Internet persistently (eg dialup). Most people on broadband use some form of router, or only have one machine connected. Most business networks have either a static policy or a dhcp server and/or a proxy setup (mnf). zcip is useful when connecting two machines directly to each other. With a working ifplug, you can actually (AFAIK) disconnect two machines (say Mandrake 9.1 and a Windows machine) from their network, and connect them via crossover cable, and they should be able to see each other. Maybe if you connect a Mandrake 9.1 box directly to a Mac OSX box, tmdns works? I just really don't have any networks without working DHCP/DNS to test, but I can try connecting to another laptop if we can find a spare one ... Look, I think if tmdns works, it may be useful, but mainly in the same circumstances as zcip, ie where there is no DHCP. I guess machines connected with static IPs could also work, but I haven't tried. Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/QM+erJK6UGDSBKcRArLpAJ4qr2PxAKj5ug6bgMz/QFeJ8/yYuACfXWZa RY3uRsMPuHCdc5/c3bbtDzY= =3oEW -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. **
Re: [Cooker] Setting of name for 'localhost' is malfunctioning
Buchan Milne [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: set HOSTNAME in /etc/sysconfig/hostname, in which case: /etc/sysconfig/network -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] Setting of name for 'localhost' is malfunctioning
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003, guran wrote: Hi Hd.img installation per 20030817 VERSION Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20030816 21:26 I have a firewall that runs a dhcpd on a Mdk 9.0. This is from my syslog: ( check out how postfix is trembling in respons to 'localhost',[EMAIL PROTECTED] guran]$) ... Yes, it is well-known that mail servers will not like using localhost as hostname. What is your point? What does `hostname` say? How/where did you set the hostname? What software do you think is at fault for this (or did you just not set the hostname)? You can always edit your /etc/postfix/main.cf, or turn postfix off, or many other things, but you haven't given us any useful informatio on what you are trying to accomplish, what you did etc etc, so currently your post doesn't help fix whatever you think is broken. Regards, Buchan -- |Registered Linux User #182071-| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 ** Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. **
Re: [Cooker] Setting of name for 'localhost' is malfunctioning
On Sunday 17 August 2003 13.24, Buchan Milne wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003, guran wrote: Hi Hd.img installation per 20030817 VERSION Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20030816 21:26 I have a firewall that runs a dhcpd on a Mdk 9.0. This is from my syslog: ( check out how postfix is trembling in respons to 'localhost',[EMAIL PROTECTED] guran]$) ... Yes, it is well-known that mail servers will not like using localhost as hostname. What is your point? What does `hostname` say? How/where did you set the hostname? What software do you think is at fault for this (or did you just not set the hostname)? You can always edit your /etc/postfix/main.cf, or turn postfix off, or many other things, but you haven't given us any useful informatio on what you are trying to accomplish, what you did etc etc, so currently your post doesn't help fix whatever you think is broken. Regards, Buchan I was trying to report something that I thought was a bug. During installation of LAN i used the graphic set and to 'zeroconf' I added Pelles as the name with no dots. In syslog you can see that mdk writes Aug 17 09:55:29 localhost tmdns[1665]: claim name Pelles.local, type 1 That is as far as that information gets. To my understanding the installation should put that name correctly into postfix. regards guran -- Mandrake Linux Cooker 9.2 in shabby Gnome on kernel-2.4.22.0.6mdk-1-1mdk Only in a society that has defined what is the truth can the Linux users choice be deminished.
Re: [Cooker] Setting of name for 'localhost' is malfunctioning
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003, guran wrote: On Sunday 17 August 2003 13.24, Buchan Milne wrote: I was trying to report something that I thought was a bug. During installation of LAN i used the graphic set and to 'zeroconf' I added Pelles as the name with no dots. In syslog you can see that mdk writes Aug 17 09:55:29 localhost tmdns[1665]: claim name Pelles.local, type 1 That is as far as that information gets. To my understanding the installation should put that name correctly into postfix. OK, that's a better report, but this is IMHO how it should work: 1)You set the hostname once in drakconnect in normal mode, which should set HOSTNAME in /etc/sysconfig/hostname, in which case: -tmdns will use it -postfix, apache, samba, etc etc will use it -syslog will use it (yours is using localhost) preferably it should be sent with a dhcp request by default also (I am not sure if this is currently the case. Things that should not be possible: -have a different hostname in /etc/sysconfig/network than in /etc/tmdns.conf. There is no use in registering a name in multicast DNS which is not the `hostname` =IMHO, the bug is setting the hostname in /etc/tmdns.conf, it should *only* be set in /etc/sysconfig/network Things that should be possible: -choose to use hostname assigned by dhcp server -choose to send a different hostname to the dhcp server BTW, does anyone know if tmdns is of any use? If all it's going to do is make `hostname` resolve on the local machine, we might as well use /etc/hosts for this. If the user has DHCP, chances are they have DNS, and tmdns is useless. Apparently the use of .local has some issues on Windows2000 domains when using default settings. The only reason tmdns can be useful is in a network of machines *not* connected to the internet, which *don't* use DHCP, and which *don't* have DNS. Thus, IMHO, tmdns should only be started if DHCP leases are not available (when using a zcip address), and *only* if tmdns can resolve names of other zeroconf machines. Please note I haven't installed cooker recently, I will probably install beta2 today ... I am sure I filed a bug on this in 9.1 beta series, so please search in bugzilla Regards, Buchan -- |Registered Linux User #182071-| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 ** Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. **
Re: [Cooker] Setting of name for 'localhost' is malfunctioning
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 14:38:38 +0200 (SAST) Buchan Milne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only reason tmdns can be useful is in a network of machines *not* connected to the internet, which *don't* use DHCP, and which *don't* have DNS. Thus, IMHO, tmdns should only be started if DHCP leases are not available (when using a zcip address), and *only* if tmdns can resolve names of other zeroconf machines. Please note I haven't installed cooker recently, I will probably install beta2 today ... I complained about it also. It was 9.1 Beta3 before my DHCP would be properly configured without my having to manually edit /etc/hosts and forget bout having a networked printer auto detected with a DHCP host on a home LAN Prior to 9.1 all I needed to have installed was dhcpd and network and networked printers were a breeze but now if I want to set-up the network during installation or even afterwards using drakconnect It Has to install dhcp-client, dhcp-server and tmdns. Hell, if nothing else, in the Advanced tab we should at least be given the option of How we want to have the DHCP connection set-up. Charles -- I have five dollars for each of you. -- Bernhard Goetz - Mandrake Linux 9.2 on PurpleDragon Kernel- 2.4.22-0.5mdkenterprise http://www.eslrahc.com - pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
