Antigen found W32/Sircam-A (Sophos) virus

2001-07-22 Thread ANTIGEN_BAMBI

Antigen for Exchange found jo.doc.bat infected with W32/Sircam-A (Sophos)
virus.
The file is currently Removed.  The message, CDR: jo, was
sent from Angela and was discovered in IMC Queues\Inbound
located at Cognex/Natick/BAMBI.




Antigen found W32/Sircam-A (Sophos) virus

2001-07-22 Thread ANTIGEN_BAMBI

Antigen for Exchange found direct.xls.pif infected with W32/Sircam-A
(Sophos) virus.
The file is currently Removed.  The message, CDR: direct, was
sent from agnani and was discovered in IMC Queues\Inbound
located at Cognex/Natick/BAMBI.




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High-tech warfare -- The Washington Times

2001-07-22 Thread Jim Choate

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20010722-949860.htm
-- 

 --


Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, Let Tesla be, and all was light.

  B.A. Behrend

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-





Re: Meatspace

2001-07-22 Thread Jim Choate


On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 It is a response to the claim was that the Panther's repression of internal 
 dissent was somehow a result of CIA mindrays making them do evil things.
 They did evil things because they were bad people.

What a simplistic and self serving viewpoint.

What I do is ok because I'm a good person, what they do is bad because
 they're bad people.

More angels among men crap.

Got a newsflash bubba, people(!) do both good and bad things. There is no
such thing as a 'good' or a bad 'person' per se. Just self-serving
bigotry and self-justification, and nobody escapes either.


 --


Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, Let Tesla be, and all was light.

  B.A. Behrend

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-






Air Force Turns 747 Into Holster for Giant Laser (washingtonpost.com)

2001-07-22 Thread Jim Choate

Point this baby at the ground...

http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27248-2001Jul20.html

-- 

 --


Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, Let Tesla be, and all was light.

  B.A. Behrend

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-





Re: Rallies on Monday

2001-07-22 Thread Jim Choate


On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:

 On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 10:39:06PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
  An unconstitutional law. A law which limits freedom in a country which is
  ultimately governed by Congress shall make no law...
  
  If you can't catch that clue, there is no hope.
 
 The interesting thing in this case is that Dmitry was not arrested for
 discussing or revealing information about Adobe's arguably-sucky copy
 protection system. If you read the FBI affidavit
 (http://cryptome.org/usa-v-sklyarov.htm), you'll note that the FBI
 seems only concerned about his commercial activities:

[ ... ]

 That's because the DMCA only makes commercial circumvention a crime:
 
  (a) In general. -- Any person who violates section 1201 or 1202
  willfully and for purposes of commercial advantage or private
  financial gain,

Wrong. See that phrase 'private financial gain'? 

That means that any(!!!) activity, private or commercial, which reduces
the cash flow INTO the corporation is a legitimate target. So simply
talking about it is most definitely a crime. So, while in this case they
may not have decided to go this route, the route is still there.


 --


Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, Let Tesla be, and all was light.

  B.A. Behrend

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-






Re: CDR: Re: Killing the G8 Anarchists

2001-07-22 Thread Jim Choate


On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:

 On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 10:37:48AM -0700, Morlock Elloi wrote:
  Cato is the first place that I visit when curious about the current agenda of
  the unique mix of libertarian/new world order propaganda.
 
 So instead of responding to the text of the article, you rant about the
 author. That's intellectual integrity about on the level of many of
 those anti-property rights protests.

You fucking hypocrite. At least half the crap you spew is nothing more
than ad hominims.


 --


Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, Let Tesla be, and all was light.

  B.A. Behrend

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-






Re: Killing the G8 Anarchists

2001-07-22 Thread Jim Choate


On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Sampo Syreeni wrote:

 Dunno... Seeing what went down in Gothenburg, and the shit that's going on
 now in Genoa, I too am beginning to think there is something very wrong with
 all this...

Duh. What was your first clue?

 The property-destroying anarchists are giving anarchy a bad name.
 
 Agreed.

Actually its a clear demonstration of the paucity of 'anarchist' solutions
to social situations and how ill fit it is to human psychology.

Some never learn, they keep hoping for angels among men.


 --


Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, Let Tesla be, and all was light.

  B.A. Behrend

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-






Re: Killing the G8 Anarchists

2001-07-22 Thread Jim Choate


On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:

 On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 12:14:52AM -0700, Morlock Elloi wrote:
  You are a ... journalist ???
 
 Everyone's a journalist nowadays.

They always were. The 'commercial' distinction about 'press' is a false
and unconstitutional distinction.

The Constitution speaks of 'the press', not as a bunch of fame and profit
seeking opportunists, but as a free and available mechanism for
individuals to discuss their views and desires (this mailing list is a
perfect example as is a private mailbox. What todays modern press does is
a bastardization of intent and a whoring for fame and profit; as opposed
to fostering real discussion and change in our society.

Some Jefferson quotes to demonstrate the distinction:

No government ought to be without censors; and when the press is free, no
one ever will. Nature has given to man no other means of sifting out the
truth either in religion, law or politics. I think it as honorable to the
government neither to know or notice its sycophants or censors as it would
be undignified and criminal to pamper the former and persecute the latter.

At a very early period in my life I determined never to put a sentence
into any newspaper. I have religiously adhered to the resolution through
my life and have great reason to be contented with it. Were I to undertake
to answer the calumnies of the newspapers it would be more than all my
time and twenty aids could effect. For, while I should be answering one,
twenty new ones would be invented. I have thought it better to trust to
the justice of my countrymen that they would judge me by what they see of
my conduct on the stage they have placed me.

 Their anti-property rights slogans, their disdain for private property,
 their embrace of socialist and Marxist ideology? See a nice writeup on this
 point that Cato's Aaron Lucas sent to my Politech list: 
 http://www.politechbot.com/p-02281.html

You lump the majority into a fraction. A prime example of the self-serving
dellusion of cash and fame on the truth.


 --


Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, Let Tesla be, and all was light.

  B.A. Behrend

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-






Re: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday

2001-07-22 Thread Jim Choate


On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Seth Finkelstein wrote:

   While this is true, there's a very deep issue in the
 definition of protected.

No there isn't, it's just that '...no law...' is onconvenient for people
who believe they are angels among men:

 Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

 The problem is better rendered that the courts have taken the view that the 
 protection of (intellectual) *property rights* trumps the free-speech 
 concerns here.

The problem is that courts believe they can interpret the constitution
instead of as actually worded, being limited to laws made 'under' the
constutition.

A major distinction.


 --


Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, Let Tesla be, and all was light.

  B.A. Behrend

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-





Re: CNN.com - Family remembers G8 protester - July 21, 2001

2001-07-22 Thread Jim Choate


On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:

 I'm sympathetic to the deceased's family. But it strikes me that if
 you assault a police vehicle with armed cops inside with the evident
 intent to do physical harm, you'd better be wearing a bulletproof vest.

That has yet to be proven. Simply tumping a vehicle over is not in and of
itself 'intent to do physical harm'. You assume, without evidence, that
the protestors even knew the van was occupied. Further, you assume that
the protestor shot was actually involved. Further, you assume that the
store the police stated is accurate.

A lot of assumptions for somebody who is supposed to be unbiased as a
journalist.

(Of course we know you're neither)


 --


Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, Let Tesla be, and all was light.

  B.A. Behrend

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-






RE: [spam score 10.00/10.0 -pobox] State appeals court says ignorance no defense in wiretapping

2001-07-22 Thread Jim Choate


On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Aimee Farr wrote:

 Opinion at: http://www.courts.state.md.us/opinions/coa/2001/125a00.pdf
 
 We are all familiar with the legend of Lady Godiva who, in response to a

Legend?

Leofric, Earl of Mercia


 --


Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, Let Tesla be, and all was light.

  B.A. Behrend

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-






Re: Ashcroft Targets U.S. Cybercrime

2001-07-22 Thread Jim Choate


On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:

 On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 01:55:12PM -0700, John Young wrote:
  Why bust Dmitry and not the head of  ElcomSoft if the
  primary crime is commercial gain? That he is claimed
  to be the copyright holder is thin stuff, for that does not
  support his being the main commercial beneficiary (unless 
  the FBI has evidence that was not revealed about Elcomsoft's
  internal finances).
 
 The problem with this analysis is that he does not have to be the
 main commercial beneficiary for the charges to stick.

The problem is that no 'beneficiary' is required, only 'intent'.


 --


Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, Let Tesla be, and all was light.

  B.A. Behrend

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-






Re: CNN.com - Family remembers G8 protester - July 21, 2001

2001-07-22 Thread Declan McCullagh

On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 09:58:54AM -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
 On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:
 
  I'm sympathetic to the deceased's family. But it strikes me that if
  you assault a police vehicle with armed cops inside with the evident
  intent to do physical harm, you'd better be wearing a bulletproof vest.
 
 That has yet to be proven. Simply tumping a vehicle over is not in and of
 itself 'intent to do physical harm'. You assume, without evidence, that
 the protestors even knew the van was occupied. Further, you assume that
 the protestor shot was actually involved. Further, you assume that the
 store the police stated is accurate.

A close look at the Reuters photo sequence shows that these assumptions
are in truth conclusions.

 A lot of assumptions for somebody who is supposed to be unbiased as a
 journalist.

Hahahahahahaha.

-Declan




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Thank You 







RE: Killing the G8 Anarchists,

2001-07-22 Thread Jim Choate


On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Agreed, 100%  Paradoxically, I also agree that the fucking shit up is
 often necessary to generate suffucient public recognition of the issues at
 hand.  
 
 No, I don't have an answer to this paradox.

Paradoxes arise, usually, because the relationship is being viewed in the
wrong context.

Read the first two para's of the DoI for one solution to the 'paradox'.


 --


Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, Let Tesla be, and all was light.

  B.A. Behrend

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-






Re: your mail

2001-07-22 Thread Jim Choate


Exactly, and democracy is as unpopular as always for those who believe
they should somehow 'lead' others 'less able'.

I am not one who fears the people.

Thomas Jefferson

On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Anonymous wrote:

 The real issue is the fact that the battle takes place.

 Contrary to the statements made by current world leaders, this is
 democracy in action.


 --


Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, Let Tesla be, and all was light.

  B.A. Behrend

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-





Re: CNN.com - Family remembers G8 protester - July 21, 2001

2001-07-22 Thread Jim Choate


On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:

  That has yet to be proven. Simply tumping a vehicle over is not in and of
  itself 'intent to do physical harm'. You assume, without evidence, that
  the protestors even knew the van was occupied. Further, you assume that
  the protestor shot was actually involved. Further, you assume that the
  store the police stated is accurate.
 
 A close look at the Reuters photo sequence shows that these assumptions
 are in truth conclusions.

Actually no, they don't. All they show is a group of people turning a van
over. As to addressing their 'intent', especially with respect to 'harming
the cops' they say nothing. Photo's don't capture the mind.


 --


Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, Let Tesla be, and all was light.

  B.A. Behrend

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-





Re: Geek Profiling Upheld by Appeals Court

2001-07-22 Thread Jim Choate


On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Sampo Syreeni wrote:

 (BTW, the poem was pretty evocative, as far as I can tell.)

Irrelevant. Further, good poetry is supposed to be evocative.


 --


Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, Let Tesla be, and all was light.

  B.A. Behrend

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-






Re: Rallies on Monday

2001-07-22 Thread Sampo Syreeni

On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Reese wrote:

Just my 2 cents (after about 12 beers...)

A little crazy?  No.  A lot drunk.  Take two aspirin with the handful of
clue pills, you'll need them.

Besides, being drunk is no excuse for beind stupid. I mean, I boast a good
in-excess-of-1-per-mille alcohol intoxication at the moment, and still
manage to write in a relatively rational manner. Being drunk does *not* mean
one is exempt from displaying manners, or that one can safely switch off
one's intellect.

Then, if one really can't cope with drugs as strong as alcohol, but still
wants take them, sure. One just shouldn't be surprised if that leads to
behavior one might regret later.

He really does seem to need a clue pill.

Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED], gsm: +358-50-5756111
student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front




Re: CDR: Re: Killing the G8 Anarchists

2001-07-22 Thread Izaac

On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 10:00:54AM -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
 You fucking hypocrite. At least half the crap you spew is nothing more
 than ad hominims.

In many a distant land, one can hear the laugher as it rolls over
hills and into valleys; just as those gripped by hilarity at its
source roll over papers and into furniture.

-- 
___ ___  .   .  ___
 \/  |\  |\ \
 _\_ /__ |-\ |-\ \__




A new record? 18 Choategrams this morning!

2001-07-22 Thread Tim May

After reading the handful of messages that made it through lne.com's 
filters, I double-checked my trash directory to see what my own 
filters had thrown away.

Some kind of new record: 18 messages from Choate, posted during just 
a 2-hour period this morning. From the headers, most look to be 
Choategrams giving us pointers to what Yahoo or CNN make readily 
available.

(One pulled at random: 
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/ap/20010721/wl/summit_protests_46.html
Summit Protests Rage for Second Day)


Gee, Choate, how would we know about yesterday's news, reported 
widely, discussed here, if you didn't pass on a pointer to Yahoo?

Some would call it mail-bombing the list to disrupt it. Perhaps. But 
I expect it's just plain cluelessness. Some kind of URL Tourette's 
Syndrome.

Thank Baal for filtering tools.


--Tim May



-- 
Timothy C. May [EMAIL PROTECTED]Corralitos, California
Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon
Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go
Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns




Filetopia = gnutella + crypto

2001-07-22 Thread Subcommander Bob

FYI: a gnutellish distrib P2P/search tool *with crypto*.  For Wintel.

From its doc:
   Filetopia is a free communications software that includes: instant
messaging, chat, e-mail, a powerful file sharing system with
   a search engine, online friends list and message boards. What is
unique to this software is the level of security and privacy
   that it provides. It uses a choice of strong ciphers and public key
techniques for all communications and sophisticated
   techniques to protect your IP and thus make you truly anonymous and
safe from attacks.

.
I've been running this P2P filesharer for a few days, its quite stable
and fast even on a
slow, old Win95 system (unlike many other P2P tools).

I have no assoc. with Filetopia






Re: Ashcroft Targets U.S. Cybercrime

2001-07-22 Thread Matthew Gaylor

At 12:19 PM -0400 7/21/01, Declan McCullagh wrote:
This was not a hotly-debated law, folks. Anyone who thinks there's
a difference between the two major parties on this issue -- and I'm not
saying Matt does, of course -- should get over it.

-Declan

That is correct.  There is little difference.  Just continuations of 
the police state.

Regards,  Matt-




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Re: Adobe's Teeth. (Was: Re: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday)

2001-07-22 Thread Jim Choate


On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Sampo Syreeni wrote:

 Exercise your right to free speech.  Do it carefully.
 
 Not carefully. Wisely.

And what pray tell is 'wisely'?



 --


Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, Let Tesla be, and all was light.

  B.A. Behrend

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-






Re: A new record? 18 Choategrams this morning!

2001-07-22 Thread Declan McCullagh

Coincidentally, before reading this, I finally decided to killfile
Choate. I'm not sure whether it was the inane nuttiness, the weird
quoting of the First Amendment with metronome regularity, or the loopy
argument that protesters trying to trash a police van were really
doing that by way of polite introduction before perhaps extending an
invite to afternoon tea.

Anyway, thanks to the graces of procmail, I now have a trash folder,
and a sincere expectation that my cypherpunks traffic will fall in
volume while rising in quality by 20 percent.

-Declan


On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 09:54:35AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
 After reading the handful of messages that made it through lne.com's 
 filters, I double-checked my trash directory to see what my own 
 filters had thrown away.
 
 Some kind of new record: 18 messages from Choate, posted during just 
 a 2-hour period this morning. From the headers, most look to be 
 Choategrams giving us pointers to what Yahoo or CNN make readily 
 available.
 
 (One pulled at random: 
 http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/ap/20010721/wl/summit_protests_46.html
 Summit Protests Rage for Second Day)
 
 
 Gee, Choate, how would we know about yesterday's news, reported 
 widely, discussed here, if you didn't pass on a pointer to Yahoo?
 
 Some would call it mail-bombing the list to disrupt it. Perhaps. But 
 I expect it's just plain cluelessness. Some kind of URL Tourette's 
 Syndrome.
 
 Thank Baal for filtering tools.
 
 
 --Tim May
 
 
 
 -- 
 Timothy C. May [EMAIL PROTECTED]Corralitos, California
 Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon
 Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go
 Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns




Re: G8, issues, and familiarity

2001-07-22 Thread Faustine

On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Faustine wrote:
 Jim wrote: 
 CNN's poll is asking Are you familiar with the issues behind the G8
 summit.
 58% said No.
 Perhaps the protesting will help motivate more to educate themselves.
 True, that would be great. But how many of the remaining 42 percent 
 consider themselves educated, but are nevertheless content to mindlessly 
 repeat mickey mouse platitudes and propaganda spoon-fed to them from on 
 high, and who couldn't pass a rudimentary econ 101 test if their lives 
 depended on it?
That's a pretty simplistic view:
If they don't know then it's their fault for not being educated.

Whose fault is it then? Anyone well-off enough to be reading CNN online 
hasn't got much of reason not to educate themselves. Nobody gets a free 
pass--I take responsibility for my own ignorance, and don't feel the need 
to be ashamed of it because I'm actively working to overcome it every day. 
Believe it or not, I went from being a high school dropout literally living 
on the street to a PhD student with a research job entirely on my own, with 
nothing to get me there but will and intelligence: why should I feel an 
ounce of sympathy for people with far more material advantages than I ever 
had who never made use of them? 

If they claim they do know then it must be platitudes and propoganda.
 
No, I'm just disgusted with the majority of the great smug, lazy, and 
complacent middle class of America. I find their peculiar brand of 
mushheadded apathy to be beneath contempt. One of my hot buttons, I guess.


 More analysis, less rhetoric. 
Analysis is rhetoric, just better organized.

John von Neumann is spinning in his grave...

Lies, damn lies, statistics.

Bah! How about this one:

The fundamental difference between engineering with and without statistics 
boils down to the difference between the use of a scientific method based 
upon the concept of laws of nature that do not allow for chance or 
uncertainty and a scientific method based upon the concept of laws of 
probability as an attribute of nature. - W.A.Shewhart 

There!! :)

~Faustine.




Re: Killing the G8 Anarchists

2001-07-22 Thread Petro

At 10:37 AM -0700 7/21/01, Morlock Elloi wrote:
 Their anti-property rights slogans, their disdain for private property,
 their embrace of socialist and Marxist ideology? See a nice writeup on this
 point that Cato's Aaron Lucas sent to my Politech list: 

Cato is the first place that I visit when curious about the current agenda of
the unique mix of libertarian/new world order propaganda.

Translating protesters' agenda to anti-property *is* pure propaganda designed
to scare god-fearing middle class cypherpunks that somehow they will lose some
of their property should G8 protesters seize the world government (BTW, it
would be interesting to see what is the net worth of cpunkers and how that
influences their positions :-)

As the word communist loses its strength new words are needed to instill
fear, and anti-property is a nice catchall. It's all in the language. 

You also enumerate ideologies with implicit assumption that they are bad. So
whatever can be labeled marxist or socialist is somehow horrible. You don't
say WHAT is bad about it, you *assume* that everyone will jump to the bandwagon
and agree that it's something bad. Kill the commies. This is a classic
propaganda technique.

Wanna bet? 

Marxist, socialist and communist ideologies are bad because at some level they 
assume that society has a *right* to the output of my labour above and beyond the 
level that I consume from society. 

That is slavery. 

(To put this another way, it is legitimate for society to force me to pay for 
what I consume, it has a right (tho' this word is meaningless when it comes to an 
abstraction like society) to my productive labour *ONLY* to the point where it pays 
for what I use. Marxist, Socialists, communists, Nazis and Fascists have the further 
problem of believing (for the most part) in massively centralized planning structures. 
In societies of about 100k people, these fail miserably, and don't work all that well 
in smaller groups. 




I will not bother citing sources that have exactly the opposite PoV from Cato's
- you can look them up yourself. The point of a discussion is not spamming each
other with pre-digested, ready-to-wear, downloaded simplifications but to
inject some of own experience and induction.
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/




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Antigen found W32/Sircam-A (Sophos) virus

2001-07-22 Thread ANTIGEN_BAMBI

Antigen for Exchange found Rotary Monies Accounting.xls.com infected with
W32/Sircam-A (Sophos) virus.
The file is currently Removed.  The message, CDR: Rotary Monies
Accounting, was
sent from Marc Moreau and was discovered in IMC Queues\Inbound
located at Cognex/Natick/BAMBI.




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RE:

2001-07-22 Thread Ray Dillinger



On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Sandy Sandfort wrote:

It should be obvious that these riots are not so much ideologically
motivated (though that's the pseudo-rational), but testosterone motivated.
Most of these monkeys couldn't spell anarchy let alone understand it
philosophically.  Let's not confuse the cover story with the real
motive--fucking stuff up for the fun of it.


Hmmm.  I was digging after this for a while, trying to figure out 
why these people were rioting.  As you note, there's no real 
coherent message from the protesters, not even a thread of unifying 
platform or goals. 

But then, the information content of what comes out of the mouth of 
someone who's just hit his/her thumb with a hammer is pretty low, too. 
It doesn't mean s/he doesn't have a real concern. 

This is just a guess, but what *I* think motivates these people is 
frustration and disenfranchisement.  It's not that any substantial 
group of them want any particular thing, it's just that the whole 
bunch of them feel that they don't have a voice in what's happening 
any more.  The globalization people are consulting *each other* 
instead of the people affected by the laws to figure out what laws 
they should pass, and the people are pissed off because they don't 
feel that they have any input into the process.  

Also, the personal pressure on them is a little higher every year 
as the forces of capitalism get more ruthless and efficient at 
exploiting them as a market and as cheap labor - and the barriers 
to actually starting a business of one's own seem to be going nowhere 
but up - so they're also frustrated by the fact that even though 
they may be making more money, they're still working for other 
people and at the end of the day they're still poorer.  Capitalism 
from the worker's perspective means working longer hours, getting 
paid more, and winding up under family pressure (because your family 
is an intensely and effectively targeted market) to spend it all on 
stupid stuff.  Furbys, TV's, and barbie dolls, for god's sake. So 
at the end of the day they have more stupid crap but they're poorer 
and more tired and have less time to spend with their family - and 
after a while they get frustrated. 

But none, or few, of them see it in exactly those terms. They're 
just angry and frustrated and they don't really know why.  The 
few issues they believe in are getting ignored, so they go protest 
about those few issues and it turns into a chaotic mess because 
everybody has different issues and different degrees of how pissed-
off they really are.  More frustration.

Bear





Re: Re: Ashcroft Targets U.S. Cybercrime

2001-07-22 Thread measl


On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Petro wrote:
 At 12:32 PM -0500 7/21/01, Benson Schliesser wrote:
  We still live in a country that has laws, and we *should* expect the LEAs
 to enforce all laws that are on the books.
 
  If you have a problem with the laws, it's not the LEAs fault, it's the
 legislature and the Executive branch.
 
 
 And the Jewish population of Europe during WW2 had no right to complain
 about the Nazi soldiers just doing their job, right...
 
   If one can't distinguish between the enforcement of laws of
 questionable constitutional validity (yes, *questionable*) and
 genocide, then one should probably load the bong again, watch cartoons
 on TV and stay far, far away from the ballot box.
 
   In the grand scheme of things, Ashcroft believes (or appears to)
 in the Constitution. He may have some differences of opinion with many
 or most on this list, but he believes in it.
 
   That is better than we've had in at least 6 years, probably more. 

You are arguing a mere degree of difference Petro.  The fact that Ashcroft
believes in the constitution (like YOU would have any way to be imbued
with such knowledge!) is irrelevent.

Even if we accept your assertion that Ashcroft believes, if he is willing
to enforce clearly violative laws, then is the *enemy*.


-- 
Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...






Re: CNN.com - Family remembers G8 protester - July 21, 2001

2001-07-22 Thread Ray Dillinger



On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:

I'm sympathetic to the deceased's family. But it strikes me that if
you assault a police vehicle with armed cops inside with the evident
intent to do physical harm, you'd better be wearing a bulletproof vest.
   ^^^ 

I think you misspelled Armored Personnel Carrier. 

Bear




THE INCHOATE LAWYER

2001-07-22 Thread Sandy Sandfort

C'punks,

Here's an excellent opportunity for our favorite resident buffoon to strut
his lawyer-wannabe chops.  The next LSAT (Law School Aptitude Test) will be
administered on October 6, 2001.

Jim, PLEASE take the test.  I'd love to see your test score.  And, hey,
maybe you'll get a high enough score to tempt you to go to law school
(unlikely, given your illogical thought processes, but even a blind chicken
finds a seed now and then).

It's only 96 bucks.  Sign up for the test at:

https://www5.lsac.org/reggie/cgi-bin/r.exe?To=tintro.htmfrom=rint.htm


 S a n d y
_

If the law of gravity is fundamental, why can't it be changed
by Constitutional amendment since it's the primary authority?

   W W
   \*\ /*/
   The Road Kill Group |*| |*|
  /*|*\ |\-
 (|\((x)\
   -==-||---:
 (|/((x)/
  \*|*/ |/-
   |*| |*|
   /*/ \*\
   M M

verbigeration (vuhr-bij-uh-RAY-shun) noun

   Obsessive repetition of meaningless words and phrases.

[From Latin verbigerare, to talk, chat, from verbum word + gerere, to carry
on + -ation.]




Re: THE INCHOATE LAWYER

2001-07-22 Thread Black Unicorn

I will personally refund the money to Mr. Choate when he presents a valid ETS
score report for the test to me or Mr. Sandfort.

- Original Message -
From: Sandy Sandfort [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Cypherpunks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 9:07 PM
Subject: THE INCHOATE LAWYER


 C'punks,

 Here's an excellent opportunity for our favorite resident buffoon to strut
 his lawyer-wannabe chops.  The next LSAT (Law School Aptitude Test) will be
 administered on October 6, 2001.

 Jim, PLEASE take the test.  I'd love to see your test score.  And, hey,
 maybe you'll get a high enough score to tempt you to go to law school
 (unlikely, given your illogical thought processes, but even a blind chicken
 finds a seed now and then).

 It's only 96 bucks.  Sign up for the test at:

 https://www5.lsac.org/reggie/cgi-bin/r.exe?To=tintro.htmfrom=rint.htm


  S a n d y
 _

 If the law of gravity is fundamental, why can't it be changed
 by Constitutional amendment since it's the primary authority?

W W
\*\ /*/
The Road Kill Group |*| |*|
   /*|*\ |\-
  (|\((x)\
-==-||---:
  (|/((x)/
   \*|*/ |/-
|*| |*|
/*/ \*\
M M

 verbigeration (vuhr-bij-uh-RAY-shun) noun

Obsessive repetition of meaningless words and phrases.

 [From Latin verbigerare, to talk, chat, from verbum word + gerere, to carry
 on + -ation.]





The Movie - Pearl Harbor

2001-07-22 Thread Pearl Harbor

Dear cypherpunks-unedited, 

Check out the history of World War II (Pearl Harbor) 

You will be able to get the Original VCD  DVD movie inside Related site!!!

http://members.tripodasia.com.my/PearlHarbor_movie/index.html 

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Re: THE INCHOATE LAWYER

2001-07-22 Thread Black Unicorn

I'm not interested in funding your legal education, I'm interested in seeing
your LSAT score.

I will refund your registration fee in exchange for your valid ETS score
report.

What you do with it after that is up to you.

No cost to you.  Put up or shut up.

- Original Message -
From: Jim Choate [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Sandy Sandfort [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: THE INCHOATE LAWYER


 How bad do you two drones want it? I don't work for free (as any
 self-respecting C-A-C-L should respect).

 3 months, at say $10k/month sounds fair to stroke your egos.

 When I get the check with cash up front you got it.

 Put up, or shut up.

 (and no, I wouldn't become a fucking lawyer under any circumstances. I got
  more self respect.)





Fwd: How to be noticed.

2001-07-22 Thread greg5f1345
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  Phone:
  
   

  

 
   
Home 
  Phone:
  
   

  

 
   
Email:
  
   

  

 
   
Type 
  of Business: