3D printer

[Beco]

Hi guys,

This is an open thread, if that is allowed.

I would like to start a topic on 3d printers. Does anyone here have
experience in using such printers with debian/linux?

What brand would you recommend?

How about kits?

What software is there available in debian repositories to create 3D
projects that can be directly printed?

Thanks any input.

My best,
Beco.





-- 
Dr Beco
A.I. researcher

"For the things we have to learn before we can do them, we learn by doing
them" (Aristotle)

Re: Lenovo R61 Think Pad dead after fewer than five years

[Celejar]

On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 14:53:46 -0400
Ken Heard  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> In May 2008 I purchased new and started using a Lenovo R61 Think Pad.
>  Originally I installed Lenny on it and subsequently upgraded it to
> Squeeze.
> 
> Starting from 2013-01-01 various things started going wrong.  For
> example I began to get segmentation fault errors for packages that I
> had used successfully before that date.  Some of other problems where
> intermittent sound, and failure to detect the printer, even manually.
> 
> At first I thought these were software faults and sought help from
> this list.  Finally I decided to spend $100 for diagnostic tests.  The
> diagnosis was a failed main board, but the hard drive and the memory
> modules were okay.  The cost of repairs would approximate the cost of
> a new laptop.
> 
> Is it normal for any laptop to fail in fewer than five years, or is
> such a failure rate unique to Lenovo's laptops?

Any piece of electronics can fail, but I'm pretty sure that an R-series
ThinkPad doesn't have a *higher* failure rate than laptops in general.
My understanding is that the business class ThinkPad lines are beloved
precisely for (among other things) their superior build quality; I
bought a (refurbished) T61 (which ISTR is quite similar to the R61) for
exactly this reason, and I've been very happy with it.

> Regards, Ken Heard

Celejar


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Re: NVIDIA Problem?

[erosenberg]

 - Original Message -
From: "Darac Marjal" 
To: 
Cc: 
Sent: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 09:42:10 +
Subject: Re: NVIDIA Problem?
 On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 12:16:52AM -0400,
erosenb...@hygeiabiomedical.com wrote:
 > I  am running jessie/sid.
 > 
 > When I boot, prior to the login screen I receive the following
message: "A
 > problem has occurred and the system can't recover" .It has been
suggested
 > to me that the problem might be with the NVIDIA driver and that I
should
 > look at Xorg.log and xsession-errors.  I cannot interpret these
files at
 > all.  I have removed the duplicate lines in xsession-errors, but
I do not 
 > know what to do with Xorg.log.

 OK. First off, it's NOT a problem with the NVIDIA driver. I can tell
 that because you're actually using the intel driver. If you have an
 NVIDIA device available (either as your only graphics device or as a
 secondary card), then you have a bigger problem.

 > 
 > With your indulgence and my apologies for the length of the files,
here
 > they are:

Thanks.

I ran  smartctl on the hard drive, and it is OK.

I am a newbie. I hope that I am correct, but you said that the hard
drive might have problems.  As per above, thankfully it is healthy.

Your next  comment was that there might be a problem with the video
card.  If that is true, I should replace the video card.  What do
you recommend?  The computer is a   IBM ThinkCentre M50 8189.

TIA

Ethan
@debianorg>

Re: Init system deba{te|cle}

[Reco]

On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 21:08:29 +
Tom H  wrote:

> Misrepresenting what systemd is and the reasons for its existence
> doesn't make sense:
> 
> http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html
> 
> OS X and Solaris switched to launchd and smf respectively in 2005 and,
> to borrow an expression from Asterix and Obelix, "the sky didn't fall
> on their heads." Modern nix systems need a more sophisticated
> "/sbin/init" and associated executables and they need (and have needed
> for a long time) something more reliable and maintainable than a bunch
> of dash/bash scripts to bring the system up.

I've never seen (nor intend to) launchd, but I'm familiar with smf.
And while in Solaris "the sky didn't fall on their heads" indeed, smf
uses ksh scripts for actual launch, check and re-start services like no
tomorrow. And Solaris's svc.startd is actually started by /sbin/init.
Whenever the result is more reliable ('forgetting' to start sshd on a
failed local non-root filesystem mount is one of 'features' of new
Solaris), or maintainable (yes, I always wanted to describe service
dependencies in xml) is subjective, of course.
And smf doesn't provide 'one true API' for service launch nor requires
services to be written in a specific way.


> Linux is playing catch-up
> in this field and I'm glad that upstart and systemd are dragging it
> out of the dark ages, even if it's kicking and screaming irrationally.

Linux is way ahead of AIX, FreeBSD and HP-UX in this regard even if
using good ol' sysvinit. So, Lennart fixed what wasn't broken in the
first place.

Reco


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Re: Init system deba{te|cle}

[Reco]

On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 21:23:01 +
Tom H  wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 2:16 PM, Reco  wrote:
> I don't trust this guy. He's generally very abrasive and very
> aggressive. He joined or started a debian-devel thread on init systems
> and tried to convince people that openrc was the solution to Debian's
> prayers. It was the sales pitch from hell! He's especially unreliable
> when it comes to systemd.

Well, whoever he is, he raises some valid questions. Such as - what
logind are supposed to do? Why bother keeping unrelated projects in
systemd git?


> If the Ubuntu developers who've already split logind from systemd up
> to v204 throw up their hands and say it can't be done for v205+, then
> I'll believe it...

Not that I'm in hurry too :)

Reco


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Re: Lenovo R61 Think Pad dead after fewer than five years

[Tom H]

On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Ken Heard  wrote:
>
> In May 2008 I purchased new and started using a Lenovo R61 Think Pad.
>  Originally I installed Lenny on it and subsequently upgraded it to
> Squeeze.
>
> Starting from 2013-01-01 various things started going wrong.  For
> example I began to get segmentation fault errors for packages that I
> had used successfully before that date.  Some of other problems where
> intermittent sound, and failure to detect the printer, even manually.
>
> At first I thought these were software faults and sought help from
> this list.  Finally I decided to spend $100 for diagnostic tests.  The
> diagnosis was a failed main board, but the hard drive and the memory
> modules were okay.  The cost of repairs would approximate the cost of
> a new laptop.
>
> Is it normal for any laptop to fail in fewer than five years, or is
> such a failure rate unique to Lenovo's laptops?

I've had and I've seen laptops die faster than that...


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Re: Init system deba{te|cle}

[Tom H]

On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 2:30 PM,   wrote:
>
> Now, I wonder. Gnome was said portable, am I wrong? If they now have a hard
> dependency on systemd, they can no longer be considered portable, since
> systemd is itself only targeting linux kernels (and this is fine, since they
> do not claim to be portable)?

GNOME is portable because there are porters willing to do the work.

If they quit because the work's too time-comsuming or impossible,
it'll stop being portable.


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Re: Init system deba{te|cle}

[Tom H]

On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 2:16 PM, Reco  wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 12:09:51 +
> Tom H  wrote:
>>
>> As I said up-thread, it's a question of decoupling logind from systemd.
>>
>> The Gentoo GNOME developers decided that it was simpler for them not to do 
>> so.
>>
>> Given its attachment to upstart, Ubuntu must be planning to keep on
>> doing so; but Lennart and co might make it increasingly difficult (not
>> necessarily - and most likely not - through malice!) so it may not be
>> the best long-term strategy.
>
> According to this man pulling out logind from systemd is not valid
> strategy. Writing independent logind is not a valid strategy too:
>
> http://gentooexperimental.org/~patrick/weblog/archives/2013-10.html#e2013-10-29T13_39_32.txt

I don't trust this guy. He's generally very abrasive and very
aggressive. He joined or started a debian-devel thread on init systems
and tried to convince people that openrc was the solution to Debian's
prayers. It was the sales pitch from hell! He's especially unreliable
when it comes to systemd.

If the Ubuntu developers who've already split logind from systemd up
to v204 throw up their hands and say it can't be done for v205+, then
I'll believe it...


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Re: Init system deba{te|cle}

[Tom H]

On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Joel Rees  wrote:


> I'm a former Fedora user. Got my start on MkLinux and openBSD, but the
> companies I worked for seemed to think the commercial support approach
> from Red Hat was more in line with what they needed, so I shifted to
> Red Hat and followed that line to Fedora. Around Fedora 11 or 13 I
> became aware of the talk about upstart, then suddenly there was this
> announcement, around Fedora 14:
>
> Rawhide had switched to systemd.
>
> No one seemed to think it necessary to bother with setting up a
> parallel track and isolate the community from the bumps. Lennart's way
> or the highway.

This is nonsense.

Fedora 14 was slated to default to systemd but at the last minute,
FESCO decided not to go ahead with systemd and the init system change
was reverted; to upstart not to sysvinit.

So there was a fallback...

Fedora prides itself on being a bleeding-edge distribution and it
takes risks. Sometimes the risks that it takes are too much of a
gamble. Fedora 18 was about two months late because the anaconda
developers chose to change both the frontend and the backend of the
installer without a fallback to the Fedora 17 installer (because they
didn't have the resources to maintain both the old and the new code).


> Good engineers don't do that.
>
> When you rip out a piece like the init system and replace it with
> something highly experimental like systemd, you set up a parallel
> track. Unless you don't care what happens to your community.
>
> I did a small bit of research, started wondering if there was
> something hidden that might involve certain parties who think they
> have reason to attempt to submarine the Linux community. Took my
> concerns and technical questions to the dev list over there and got
> put on the moderator's list. Anything even slightly controversial that
> I try to ask over there just doesn't even make it to the list. Did get
> one or two replies that my posts were "waiting moderation".
>
> And no good technical reasons, just that the traditional system was
> "too complicated".

Misrepresenting what systemd is and the reasons for its existence
doesn't make sense:

http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html

OS X and Solaris switched to launchd and smf respectively in 2005 and,
to borrow an expression from Asterix and Obelix, "the sky didn't fall
on their heads." Modern nix systems need a more sophisticated
"/sbin/init" and associated executables and they need (and have needed
for a long time) something more reliable and maintainable than a bunch
of dash/bash scripts to bring the system up. Linux is playing catch-up
in this field and I'm glad that upstart and systemd are dragging it
out of the dark ages, even if it's kicking and screaming irrationally.


> "Shutdown -h" becomes "systemctl halt" or some such. apachectl
> stop/start/graceful, etc.? Now arcane parameters to the systemctl
> stop/start/? service-something-or-other. Arcane parameters to
> systemctl's new, undocumented (man pages way behind) commands and
> parameters. The only way to find out was to guess or ask on the list
> and hope someone who know was hanging around, or read the current
> code.
>
> I'm repeating myself, but good engineers don't do that.

You can use "shutdown ..." and "systemctl halt"/"systemctl poweroff",
as well as "apachectl ...".

There was a problem in the run-up to Fedora 14 in that the
systemd-supplied shutdown didn't understand traditional switches and
it was patched within a few days of a bug report being filed.

I don't understand your complaint about documentation because
systemd/systemctl are unusually well documented; and were so from the
very beginning.


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Re: Why syslog is not rotating?

[Sven Hartge]

Itay  wrote:

> Can someone help me, please, to understand why syslog is not rotating?

The system ist not running at the time when cron.daily is scheduled to
run?  --> anacron takes care of that.

Or somehow there is an error and logrotate refuses to run. In that case
run logrotate manually with the debug-switch "-d" and see if anything
strange appears.

Grüße,
Sven.

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.


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Re: Only in America! ? (was ... Re: sudo and UNIXes (was: audacity export wma format[1 more question]))

[Chris Bannister]

On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 09:35:16PM +, Curt wrote:
> On 2013-10-31, Chris Bannister  wrote:
> >
> > So you could shoot kids in halloween costumes for illegally being on
> > your property?
> 
> Only if they've been through your underwear (_very_
> puritanical country).

If it was Halloween, it would be difficult to tell if they had. :)

-- 
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who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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Why syslog is not rotating?

[Itay]

Hi,

Can someone help me, please, to understand why syslog is not rotating?

# ls -gh /var/log/syslog*
-rw-r- 1 adm 219M Nov  2 21:50 syslog
-rw-r- 1 adm 2.5K Jun  5  2010 syslog.1
-rw-r- 1 adm0 Nov  1 07:50 syslog.1.gz
-rw-r- 1 adm  661 Jun  5  2010 syslog.2.gz
-rw-r- 1 adm  709 Jun  4  2010 syslog.3.gz
-rw-r- 1 adm  689 Jun  3  2010 syslog.4.gz
-rw-r- 1 adm  678 Jun  2  2010 syslog.5.gz
-rw-r- 1 adm  675 Jun  1  2010 syslog.6.gz
-rw-r- 1 adm  664 May 31  2010 syslog.7.gz

In case it is needed, here is /etc/logrotate.d/rsyslog:

--[BEGIN]--
/var/log/syslog
{
rotate 7
daily
missingok
notifempty
delaycompress
compress
postrotate
invoke-rc.d rsyslog rotate > /dev/null
endscript
}

/var/log/mail.info
/var/log/mail.warn
/var/log/mail.err
/var/log/mail.log
/var/log/daemon.log
/var/log/kern.log
/var/log/auth.log
/var/log/user.log
/var/log/lpr.log
/var/log/cron.log
/var/log/debug
/var/log/messages
{
rotate 4
weekly
missingok
notifempty
compress
delaycompress
sharedscripts
postrotate
invoke-rc.d rsyslog rotate > /dev/null
endscript
}
--[END]--

Thanks in advance,
Itay



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Re: [OT] Ping mystery

[Karl E. Jorgensen]

Hi

On Sat, Nov 02, 2013 at 01:09:31PM -0400, Brad Alexander wrote:
> I have sort of a weird one here. On my network, I have my firewall, which has 
> 3
> interfaces. eth0 to the internal network, eth1 to the DMZ with a wireless
> access point hanging off of it, and eth2 out to the interwebs.
> 
> My workstation is on the internal network, and i have a Nokia N900 on the 
> wifi.
> I saw in the backup reports that the Nokia failed to back up because of long
> ping times. So I pinged it, and while every ping came back, and the "time="
> looked normal, it was running at about 1/3 speed. I tried a combination of
> pings and found the following:
> 
> * Pings from my workstation to the Nokia by hostname are slow;
> * Pings from the firewall are normal;
> * Pings from the access point are normal;
> * Pings from the workstation by IP are normal.
> 
> Now, I thought it might be an issue on my dns. It wasn't. The DNS responds
> normally with 1msec query times.

Hm... I'd suggest to take DNS out of the equation by:

* Make sure all pings are done by IP address, rather than DNS Name

* Use the -n option on ping to avoid the reverse DNS lookup...

Hope this helps
-- 
Karl E. Jorgensen


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Re: Lenovo R61 Think Pad dead after fewer than five years

[Mr Smiley]

Hi,

e-bay is your friend, there are thousands of spares for IBM thinkpads

:o)

On 02/11/13 18:53, Ken Heard wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

In May 2008 I purchased new and started using a Lenovo R61 Think Pad.
  Originally I installed Lenny on it and subsequently upgraded it to
Squeeze.

Starting from 2013-01-01 various things started going wrong.  For
example I began to get segmentation fault errors for packages that I
had used successfully before that date.  Some of other problems where
intermittent sound, and failure to detect the printer, even manually.

At first I thought these were software faults and sought help from
this list.  Finally I decided to spend $100 for diagnostic tests.  The
diagnosis was a failed main board, but the hard drive and the memory
modules were okay.  The cost of repairs would approximate the cost of
a new laptop.

Is it normal for any laptop to fail in fewer than five years, or is
such a failure rate unique to Lenovo's laptops?

Regards, Ken Heard
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlJ1SjoACgkQlNlJzOkJmTc6VgCggZKp2e30QS0fKTtayl//j9x8
HLEAn1S0w3IcH8NXCY+0/GZ/t0GrYG4A
=lLag
-END PGP SIGNATURE-





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Re: [OT] Ping mystery

[Sven Hartge]

Brad Alexander  wrote:

> I have sort of a weird one here. On my network, I have my firewall,
> which has 3 interfaces. eth0 to the internal network, eth1 to the DMZ
> with a wireless access point hanging off of it, and eth2 out to the
> interwebs.

> My workstation is on the internal network, and i have a Nokia N900 on
> the wifi. I saw in the backup reports that the Nokia failed to back up
> because of long ping times. So I pinged it, and while every ping came
> back, and the "time=" looked normal, it was running at about 1/3
> speed. I tried a combination of pings and found the following:

> * Pings from my workstation to the Nokia by hostname are slow;
> * Pings from the firewall are normal;
> * Pings from the access point are normal;
> * Pings from the workstation by IP are normal.

> Now, I thought it might be an issue on my dns. It wasn't. The DNS responds
> normally with 1msec query times.

What DNS queries did you test? Name-to-IP or IP-to-name?

I once experienced strange ping slowness, because ping was trying to
reverse-resolve the IP of the returned ICMP package every time.

The slowness was caused by a misconfigured bind, refusing to answer the
request, causing a 5 second delay every time.

Grüße,
Sven.

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.


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Lenovo R61 Think Pad dead after fewer than five years

[Ken Heard]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

In May 2008 I purchased new and started using a Lenovo R61 Think Pad.
 Originally I installed Lenny on it and subsequently upgraded it to
Squeeze.

Starting from 2013-01-01 various things started going wrong.  For
example I began to get segmentation fault errors for packages that I
had used successfully before that date.  Some of other problems where
intermittent sound, and failure to detect the printer, even manually.

At first I thought these were software faults and sought help from
this list.  Finally I decided to spend $100 for diagnostic tests.  The
diagnosis was a failed main board, but the hard drive and the memory
modules were okay.  The cost of repairs would approximate the cost of
a new laptop.

Is it normal for any laptop to fail in fewer than five years, or is
such a failure rate unique to Lenovo's laptops?

Regards, Ken Heard
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlJ1SjoACgkQlNlJzOkJmTc6VgCggZKp2e30QS0fKTtayl//j9x8
HLEAn1S0w3IcH8NXCY+0/GZ/t0GrYG4A
=lLag
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Installing same packages in a Squeeze installation in a new Wheezy installation

[Ken Heard]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

In a new box where the Wheezy OS will be freshly installed I want to
install all the packages which I presently have in a box with Squeeze.

In section 2.7.16 of Aoki Osamu San's excellent Debian Reference,
titled "Recording and copying system configuration" appears the following:

You can make a local copy of the package and debconf selection states
by the following.
# dpkg --get-selections '*' > selection.dpkg
# debconf-get-selections> selection.debconf

Here, "*" makes "selection.dpkg" to include package entries for
"purge" too.

You can transfer these 2 files to another computer, and install there
with the following.

# dselect update
# debconf-set-selections < myselection.debconf
# dpkg --set-selections  < myselection.dpkg
# apt-get -u select-upgrade# or dselect install

Will this command sequence generally work when the "from" box has
Squeeze and the "to" box has Wheezy?  Specifically, will the packages
installed in the Wheezy box having the same names as the ones in the
Squeeze box be the Wheezy versions rather than the Squeeze versions?
 I would assume that when the second group of commands is run any
packages or config files already in the Wheezy box which are later
versions of than those in the Squeeze box would be left alone.

Also it would appear that where there are no exact equivalents in the
two boxes the Squeeze versions would be installed if the dependency
situation allowed it; otherwise they would not be.

To know what happened when the second group of commands is run can a
log file be thereby created for that purpose?

Regards, Ken Heard
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)

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8aQAn2BFrHhc9Ptn4WSrp3ctcSBERpFv
=is3E
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: sudo and UNIXes

[Reco]

 Hi.

On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 11:46:48 -0500
"Cybe R. Wizard"  wrote:
> > How about this bug:
> > 
> > http://www.sudo.ws/sudo/alerts/sudo_debug.html
> >  
> >  Impact: Successful exploitation of the bug will allow a user to run
> > arbitrary commands as root.
> > 
> >  Exploitation of the bug does not require that the attacker be listed
> > in the sudoers file. As such, we strongly suggest that affected sites
> > upgrade from affected sudo versions as soon as possible. 
> > 
> How valid is that considering that Wheezy is using sudo
> version 1.8.5p2-1+nmu1 ?

Perfectly valid, considering that this part of thread is about using
sudo in the UNIX environment, not Linux one.


> May I assume that there are still a lot of non-upgraded machines out there?

Depends. For example, AIX 5, 6 and 7 all have sudo-1.6.7p5-3 (the only
version built officially by IBM). Unless you build sudo from the source
- no upgrades for you.
Solaris 11.1 has sudo-1.8.6.7 out of the box.


> Maybe best advice would be to upgrade their whole Debian.

That's neat idea (I sure view transition from HP-UX to Debian as an
upgrade, same for AIX), but most of the time if people bought that
hardware - they intend to use it with stock OS, not Linux.

Reco


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Re: sudo and UNIXes

[Curt]

On 2013-11-02, Cybe R. Wizard  wrote:
>> http://www.sudo.ws/sudo/alerts/sudo_debug.html
>>  
>>  Impact: Successful exploitation of the bug will allow a user to run
>> arbitrary commands as root.
>> 
>>  Exploitation of the bug does not require that the attacker be listed
>> in the sudoers file. As such, we strongly suggest that affected sites
>> upgrade from affected sudo versions as soon as possible. 
>> 
> How valid is that considering that Wheezy is using sudo
> version 1.8.5p2-1+nmu1 ?  May I assume that there are still a lot of
> non-upgraded machines out there?  Maybe best advice would be to upgrade
> their whole Debian.

I thought we were talking about people running "unpatched" sudos in
distros where the program isn't included in the official repositories of
packages and therefore gets no security updates (or something)?


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[OT] Ping mystery

[Brad Alexander]

I have sort of a weird one here. On my network, I have my firewall, which
has 3 interfaces. eth0 to the internal network, eth1 to the DMZ with a
wireless access point hanging off of it, and eth2 out to the interwebs.

My workstation is on the internal network, and i have a Nokia N900 on the
wifi. I saw in the backup reports that the Nokia failed to back up because
of long ping times. So I pinged it, and while every ping came back, and the
"time=" looked normal, it was running at about 1/3 speed. I tried a
combination of pings and found the following:

* Pings from my workstation to the Nokia by hostname are slow;
* Pings from the firewall are normal;
* Pings from the access point are normal;
* Pings from the workstation by IP are normal.

Now, I thought it might be an issue on my dns. It wasn't. The DNS responds
normally with 1msec query times.

What's more, I also have a Nokia N810 on the access point, and it does not
exhibit these symptoms.

Anyone got any suggestions on what the cause may be? Right now, everything
is working fine, I can ssh/scp to it, etc. But I'd like to know what is
causing it.

Thanks,
--b

Re: sudo and UNIXes

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 15:34:13 + (UTC)
Curt  wrote:

> On 2013-11-02, Joe Pfeiffer  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Again -- isn't "basically equivalent to giving everyone uid=0."
> >>> Permits someone who *has* sudo access to avoid retyping a
> >>> password.
> >>
> >> Not only that. Permits someone who already has sudo access to
> >> continue having such access indefinitely, ignoring being excluded
> >> from sudoers altogether.
> >
> > You made a specific claim, that sudo without patches is "basically
> > equivalent to giving everyone uid=0".  You have yet to say anything
> > that even begins to substantiate that claim.
> >
> 
> How about this bug:
> 
> http://www.sudo.ws/sudo/alerts/sudo_debug.html
>  
>  Impact: Successful exploitation of the bug will allow a user to run
> arbitrary commands as root.
> 
>  Exploitation of the bug does not require that the attacker be listed
> in the sudoers file. As such, we strongly suggest that affected sites
> upgrade from affected sudo versions as soon as possible. 
> 
How valid is that considering that Wheezy is using sudo
version 1.8.5p2-1+nmu1 ?  May I assume that there are still a lot of
non-upgraded machines out there?  Maybe best advice would be to upgrade
their whole Debian.

Cybe R. Wizard
-- 
Nice computers don't go down.
Larry Niven, Steven Barnes
"The Barsoom Project"


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Re: Init system deba{te|cle}

[Neal Murphy]

On Saturday, November 02, 2013 08:23:45 AM Joel Rees wrote:

> I'm repeating myself, but good engineers don't do that.

No, they don't. They prepare new footings and pour a new foundation before 
moving the house to the new location.

It's nice to know I haven't misperceived the situation.


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Re: sd card not detected

[Neal Murphy]

On Saturday, November 02, 2013 06:55:39 AM Alex Mestiashvili wrote:
> I use xfce4 4.10, but in this case I think it has nothing to do with the
> problem.
> The problem is that the device is not detected by the kernel .
> 
> it is not visible in the dmesg output and not visible in the output of
> fdisk -l.
> But other usb devices work fine - a usb stick is detected and mounted
> automatically.
> 
> ls -l /dev/sd*
> 
> brw-rw 1 root floppy 8, 112 Nov  2 11:32 /dev/sdh
> 
> /dev/sdh -is the cardreader device.
> 
> after inserting a sd card nothing happens - /dev/sdh1 doesn't appear,
> but it appears if I run fdisk -l /dev/sdh for example.

It appears as though udev is working correctly. If sdh1 appears when you plug 
in the reader with the card already inesrted, udev is definitely working.

What appears not to be working is the daemon that periodically opens and 
closes USB devices in the event that a medium was plugged in (used to be hald, 
I think). Remember that USB1 and USB2 are master/slave; the host end must 
initiate and perform all communication. If the daemon is malfunctioning, the 
system will not detect cards inserted into readers: the USB device cannot 
autonomously notify the host of the change in status.

The daemon works for me (64-bit Wheezy). (Verifying ... yes, it does work.)

You could probably simulate the daemon by running:

while true; do
  # Read a block; ignore failures
  dd if=/dev/sdh of=/dev/null bs=512 count=1
  sleep 3
done >/dev/null 2>&1


or even:

while true; do
  # Open the device; close it on success
  exec 3/dev/null 2>&1


Neither is optimal. Such a script should really look for non-partition USB 
additions to /dev/disk/by-id. When found, it should periodically open/close 
the device until success or until the device is deleted. Then start over.


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Re: sudo and UNIXes

[Curt]

On 2013-11-02, Joe Pfeiffer  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Again -- isn't "basically equivalent to giving everyone uid=0."  Permits
>>> someone who *has* sudo access to avoid retyping a password.
>>
>> Not only that. Permits someone who already has sudo access to continue
>> having such access indefinitely, ignoring being excluded from sudoers
>> altogether.
>
> You made a specific claim, that sudo without patches is "basically
> equivalent to giving everyone uid=0".  You have yet to say anything that
> even begins to substantiate that claim.
>

How about this bug:

http://www.sudo.ws/sudo/alerts/sudo_debug.html
 
 Impact: Successful exploitation of the bug will allow a user to run arbitrary
 commands as root.

 Exploitation of the bug does not require that the attacker be listed in the
 sudoers file. As such, we strongly suggest that affected sites upgrade from
 affected sudo versions as soon as possible. 


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Re: Hosting advice

[Go Linux]

On Sat, 11/2/13, Simon Bell  wrote:

 Subject: Re: Hosting advice
 To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
 Date: Saturday, November 2, 2013, 4:37 AM
 
 On Saturday 02 Nov 2013 12:46:21 Igor
 Cicimov wrote:
 > > May I trouble you good people for suggestions that
 meet these needs? We
 > > would like to have at least one working email
 address by close of business
 > > tomorrow (Friday, 1 November), or Monday at the
 latest.
 > > 
 > > Thanks,
 > > Craig
 
I use Canvas Dreams - http://www.canvasdreams.com/ - and have been very happy 
with their service including tech support.  And environmentally friendly too!

"Canvas Dreams was the first Web host in the Pacific Northwest to use 100% wind 
power in the operation of our business."
 


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Re: Init system deba{te|cle}

[berenger . morel]

Le 02.11.2013 13:23, Joel Rees a écrit :
On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 5:55 AM, John  
wrote:

Could someone who has been following the giant fuss on -devel over
init systems explain why there's such a sense of dire urgency?


Probably not. At least, it seems incomprehensible to me why there
should even be a debate.

Is it provoked by systemd's effort to be adopted having at least 
found

a home with gnome, made urgent by gnome's status as our default?


I don't even think that has much to do with it.


Couldn't we just make XFCE the temporary default and stay with
sysvinit until the technical dust has settled and we have a clearer
view of the long-term merits of openrc, systemd, and upstart?


Lots of reasons to take Gnome's default deskstop status away, but the
gratuitous dependency on systemd is a good one.

I'm not close to DD status, so reluctant to ask on -devel. I don't 
fit

any of the categories of that debate:


I find your description of the beligerents interesting.


1) systemd advocates with few
reservations about forcing their way,


2) near-adolescent emotional

responses to anything that looks like forcing.



Luckily there have
been a few posts by
3) sensible and emotionally moderate folks; it's
reassuring to see how many of them also hold office in Debian.

But still, I'd like to understand.


Me, too, although I have some observations.


If you haven't been reading -devel, an overview can be found here
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727708 and here
https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem.

--
johnrchamp...@wowway.com

GPG key 1024D/99421A63 2005-01-05
EE51 79E9 F244 D734 A012 1CEC 7813 9FE9 9942 1A63
gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 99421A63


I'm a former Fedora user. Got my start on MkLinux and openBSD, but 
the
companies I worked for seemed to think the commercial support 
approach

from Red Hat was more in line with what they needed, so I shifted to
Red Hat and followed that line to Fedora. Around Fedora 11 or 13 I
became aware of the talk about upstart, then suddenly there was this
announcement, around Fedora 14:

Rawhide had switched to systemd.

No one seemed to think it necessary to bother with setting up a
parallel track and isolate the community from the bumps. Lennart's 
way

or the highway.

Good engineers don't do that.

When you rip out a piece like the init system and replace it with
something highly experimental like systemd, you set up a parallel
track. Unless you don't care what happens to your community.

I did a small bit of research, started wondering if there was
something hidden that might involve certain parties who think they
have reason to attempt to submarine the Linux community. Took my
concerns and technical questions to the dev list over there and got
put on the moderator's list. Anything even slightly controversial 
that
I try to ask over there just doesn't even make it to the list. Did 
get

one or two replies that my posts were "waiting moderation".

And no good technical reasons, just that the traditional system was
"too complicated".

"Shutdown -h" becomes "systemctl halt" or some such. apachectl
stop/start/graceful, etc.? Now arcane parameters to the systemctl
stop/start/? service-something-or-other. Arcane parameters to
systemctl's new, undocumented (man pages way behind) commands and
parameters. The only way to find out was to guess or ask on the list
and hope someone who know was hanging around, or read the current
code.

I'm repeating myself, but good engineers don't do that.

--
Joel Rees

Be careful where you see conspiracy.
Look first in your own heart.



I do not know all technical advantages of systemd, but the "less 
complex" you deny have more deep that using it from commandline.

It is less complex for maintainers:
_ sysvinit scripts are scripts. Scripts needs programming skills, and 
the sh language does not have an easy to read syntax. I would in fact 
call it rather obscure compared to various other languages I used. 
Systemd configuration files are, real configuration files. Plain-text, 
no XML (this point is important for me), no script (this one too). Just 
some key-value associations.
_ systemd configuration files can be shared between distributions more 
easily than sysvinit scripts. Thus, it is "more portable" across linux 
distributions. The work being centralized, it makes the package's 
maintainers needed to do less work.


Another advantage it have, is that it is able to parallelize the start 
of daemons, and to only start daemons when they are first used. It is 
not an important feature on a server, but for desktops or laptops which 
are computers you can start lot of times in a day, it can save time. On 
that particular point, my opinion is that it is not the good solution: 
the good solution is to only start daemons you really need.


Now, it have it's problems: it is not portable, because it depends on 
certain linux specific features, like cgr

Re: Init system deba{te|cle}

[berenger . morel]

Le 02.11.2013 13:09, Tom H a écrit :
On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 1:42 AM,   
wrote:

Le 01.11.2013 20:01, Tom H a écrit :
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 8:58 PM,   
wrote:

Le 31.10.2013 21:06, André Nunes Batista a écrit :

On Wed, 2013-10-30 at 14:22 +, Tom H wrote:
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 8:55 PM, John  
wrote:


Could someone who has been following the giant fuss on -devel 
over

init systems explain why there's such a sense of dire urgency?

Is it provoked by systemd's effort to be adopted having at 
least found
a home with gnome, made urgent by gnome's status as our 
default?


Although this isn't the first debian-devel systemd-slugfest, 
there's
more of a sense of urgency and finality this time because GNOME 
3.8
depends on logind, and, other than on Ubuntu for systemd <=204, 
that

means that GNOME 3.8 depends on systemd-as-pid-1.


And does one really needs Gnome? Based on the level of user
dissatisfaction I'd say Gnome shouldn't interfere with boot 
process.
Especially one that tries to bundle everything... maybe 
gnome-devs are

trying hard to address smarts, tablets and gadgets only?


That's not gnome which changes the boot process. It's systemd. It 
simply

happens that gnome depends on systemd in Debian build.

Since AFAIK gnome is still available on platforms not based on 
linux
kernel, unlike systemd, I really think that it's gnome 
maintainer's

choice to have this hard dependency.


If it's the Debian's GNOME maintainers' choice, how come GNOME 
depends

on systemd in Gentoo?


It seems I was wrong, but if I were not, then, it could be because 
it's

simpler with that choice.


As I said up-thread, it's a question of decoupling logind from 
systemd.


The Gentoo GNOME developers decided that it was simpler for them not
to do so.

Given its attachment to upstart, Ubuntu must be planning to keep on
doing so; but Lennart and co might make it increasingly difficult 
(not

necessarily - and most likely not - through malice!) so it may not be
the best long-term strategy.


Yes, I agree on the wrong long-term strategy.
Now, I wonder. Gnome was said portable, am I wrong? If they now have a 
hard dependency on systemd, they can no longer be considered portable, 
since systemd is itself only targeting linux kernels (and this is fine, 
since they do not claim to be portable)?



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Re: Init system deba{te|cle}

[Reco]

 Hi.

On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 12:09:51 +
Tom H  wrote:
> As I said up-thread, it's a question of decoupling logind from systemd.
> 
> The Gentoo GNOME developers decided that it was simpler for them not to do so.
> 
> Given its attachment to upstart, Ubuntu must be planning to keep on
> doing so; but Lennart and co might make it increasingly difficult (not
> necessarily - and most likely not - through malice!) so it may not be
> the best long-term strategy.

According to this man pulling out logind from systemd is not valid
strategy. Writing independent logind is not a valid strategy too:

http://gentooexperimental.org/~patrick/weblog/archives/2013-10.html#e2013-10-29T13_39_32.txt

Reco


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Re: Problem with upgrade from wheezy to jessie

[André Büsgen]

Am 31.10.2013 15:41, schrieb Jochen Spieker:
> André Büsgen:
>> I've got an problem with upgrading my debian wheezy to jessie.
>> While the upgrade was running the system got a problem with the graphics
>> drivers.
>> Since this upgrade I get an error by excecuting 'startx'.
>> Even starting other applications (for example firefox) fails.
>> Everytime i try to start firefox i get an error that there is no display
>> specified.
> This is expected if X is not running. :)
>
>> My graphics card is: ATI Radeon HD 4800 Series
>> And heres what is in /var/log/Xorg.0.log:
>>
> …
>> [50.219] Loading extension GLX
>> [50.219] (II) LoadModule: "fglrx"
>> [50.219] (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/fglrx_drv.so
>> [50.231] (EE) Failed to load
>> /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/fglrx_drv.so:
>> /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/fglrx_drv.so: undefined symbol:
>> noXFree86DRIExtension
> ?
>
> BTW, your PGP signature is invalid.
>
> J.

Hello,
First  I want to thank you for your fast help but it didn't work for me.
After I had uninstalled the broken graphics driver I tried to install
the new driver but everytime I try to run the installation script it
responses that it can't find the file version.h and that I have to
install the Kernel headers.
Installing the latest Kernel header wasn't the problem but even after
installing them the installation script has the same error.


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Re: sd card not detected

[Linux-Fan]

On 11/01/2013 07:35 PM, Alex Mestiashvili wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> A card inserted into card reader is not mounted automatically and even
> doesn't shown up in the dmesg output, but if I switch off and on the
> monitor with cardreader or run lshw the card appears and is mounted.
> 
> the same happens with the second card reader in the pc. ( one is in
> monitor, second in the computer itself)
> 
> other usb devices work fine.
> 
> The hci/usb modules:
> 
> lsmod | egrep "hci|usb_storage"
> usb_storage39406  0
> ehci_pci   12432  0
> ohci_hcd   22150  0
> ehci_hcd   35820  1 ehci_pci
> scsi_mod  131001  5 sg,usb_storage,libata,sd_mod,sr_mod
> usbcore   110348  8
> snd_usb_audio,uvcvideo,usb_storage,ohci_hcd,snd_usbmidi_lib,ehci_hcd,ehci_pci,usbhid
> 
> The system is jessie, kernel: 3.10-3-686-pae
> 
> Something must be missing, but I really wonder what, as far as I
> understand hardware detection is kind of kernel feature..
> 
> Thank you,
> Alex

I have the same problem here -- since the upgrade from Squeeze to Wheezy
when the HAL was removed, device nodes for CF and SD cards are not
automatically created after insertion. Reconnecting the cardreader helps
here as well, but I did not want to always reconnect the cardreader and
found the following workaround:

http://marc.info/?l=linux-usb&m=121459435621262&q=p3

This C program allows you to "reset" a specific USB device which will
behave similar to reconnecting the cardreader in this case. Ater
inserting a SD-card, just use $ ./usbreset /dev/sde (if the card is
normally /dev/sde1) to make the device nodes available.

If you find a better solution, I would also be interested in hearing of
it. Also, the problem does not seem to be specific to a desktop
environment or even Kernel version: I am running "Linux 3.2.0-4-amd64"
and no desktop environment and get exactly the same behavior.

HTH
Linux-Fan

-- 
http://masysma.ohost.de/



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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Init system deba{te|cle}

[Joel Rees]

On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 5:55 AM, John  wrote:
> Could someone who has been following the giant fuss on -devel over
> init systems explain why there's such a sense of dire urgency?

Probably not. At least, it seems incomprehensible to me why there
should even be a debate.

> Is it provoked by systemd's effort to be adopted having at least found
> a home with gnome, made urgent by gnome's status as our default?

I don't even think that has much to do with it.

> Couldn't we just make XFCE the temporary default and stay with
> sysvinit until the technical dust has settled and we have a clearer
> view of the long-term merits of openrc, systemd, and upstart?

Lots of reasons to take Gnome's default deskstop status away, but the
gratuitous dependency on systemd is a good one.

> I'm not close to DD status, so reluctant to ask on -devel. I don't fit
> any of the categories of that debate:

I find your description of the beligerents interesting.

> 1) systemd advocates with few
> reservations about forcing their way,

2) near-adolescent emotional
> responses to anything that looks like forcing.

> Luckily there have
> been a few posts by
> 3) sensible and emotionally moderate folks; it's
> reassuring to see how many of them also hold office in Debian.
>
> But still, I'd like to understand.

Me, too, although I have some observations.

> If you haven't been reading -devel, an overview can be found here
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727708 and here
> https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem.
>
> --
> johnrchamp...@wowway.com
> 
> GPG key 1024D/99421A63 2005-01-05
> EE51 79E9 F244 D734 A012 1CEC 7813 9FE9 9942 1A63
> gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 99421A63

I'm a former Fedora user. Got my start on MkLinux and openBSD, but the
companies I worked for seemed to think the commercial support approach
from Red Hat was more in line with what they needed, so I shifted to
Red Hat and followed that line to Fedora. Around Fedora 11 or 13 I
became aware of the talk about upstart, then suddenly there was this
announcement, around Fedora 14:

Rawhide had switched to systemd.

No one seemed to think it necessary to bother with setting up a
parallel track and isolate the community from the bumps. Lennart's way
or the highway.

Good engineers don't do that.

When you rip out a piece like the init system and replace it with
something highly experimental like systemd, you set up a parallel
track. Unless you don't care what happens to your community.

I did a small bit of research, started wondering if there was
something hidden that might involve certain parties who think they
have reason to attempt to submarine the Linux community. Took my
concerns and technical questions to the dev list over there and got
put on the moderator's list. Anything even slightly controversial that
I try to ask over there just doesn't even make it to the list. Did get
one or two replies that my posts were "waiting moderation".

And no good technical reasons, just that the traditional system was
"too complicated".

"Shutdown -h" becomes "systemctl halt" or some such. apachectl
stop/start/graceful, etc.? Now arcane parameters to the systemctl
stop/start/? service-something-or-other. Arcane parameters to
systemctl's new, undocumented (man pages way behind) commands and
parameters. The only way to find out was to guess or ask on the list
and hope someone who know was hanging around, or read the current
code.

I'm repeating myself, but good engineers don't do that.

-- 
Joel Rees

Be careful where you see conspiracy.
Look first in your own heart.


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Re: Init system deba{te|cle}

[Tom H]

On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 1:42 AM,   wrote:
> Le 01.11.2013 20:01, Tom H a écrit :
>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 8:58 PM,   wrote:
>>> Le 31.10.2013 21:06, André Nunes Batista a écrit :
 On Wed, 2013-10-30 at 14:22 +, Tom H wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 8:55 PM, John  wrote:
>>
>> Could someone who has been following the giant fuss on -devel over
>> init systems explain why there's such a sense of dire urgency?
>>
>> Is it provoked by systemd's effort to be adopted having at least found
>> a home with gnome, made urgent by gnome's status as our default?
>
> Although this isn't the first debian-devel systemd-slugfest, there's
> more of a sense of urgency and finality this time because GNOME 3.8
> depends on logind, and, other than on Ubuntu for systemd <=204, that
> means that GNOME 3.8 depends on systemd-as-pid-1.

 And does one really needs Gnome? Based on the level of user
 dissatisfaction I'd say Gnome shouldn't interfere with boot process.
 Especially one that tries to bundle everything... maybe gnome-devs are
 trying hard to address smarts, tablets and gadgets only?
>>>
>>> That's not gnome which changes the boot process. It's systemd. It simply
>>> happens that gnome depends on systemd in Debian build.
>>>
>>> Since AFAIK gnome is still available on platforms not based on linux
>>> kernel, unlike systemd, I really think that it's gnome maintainer's
>>> choice to have this hard dependency.
>>
>> If it's the Debian's GNOME maintainers' choice, how come GNOME depends
>> on systemd in Gentoo?
>
> It seems I was wrong, but if I were not, then, it could be because it's
> simpler with that choice.

As I said up-thread, it's a question of decoupling logind from systemd.

The Gentoo GNOME developers decided that it was simpler for them not to do so.

Given its attachment to upstart, Ubuntu must be planning to keep on
doing so; but Lennart and co might make it increasingly difficult (not
necessarily - and most likely not - through malice!) so it may not be
the best long-term strategy.


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Re: apt-get aptitude dependencies purge

[Tom H]

On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 7:07 PM, Sven Joachim  wrote:
> On 2013-11-01 19:39 +0100, Tom H wrote:
>
>> So the "bad" variables are still documented in the aptitude docs and
>> the "good" variables are undocumented except in the changelog. :(
>
> There seems to be a misunderstanding, the aptitude documentation clearly
> states that Apt::AutoRemove::SuggestsImportant is the option you want.

Thanks.

I was looking at this
http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/ch02s04s05.html
which doesn't document that variable

but I've just installed aptitude-doc-en and it has this
file:///usr/share/doc/aptitude/html/en/ch02s05s05.html
which does...

Still, the "/usr/share/doc/apt/examples/configure-index.gz" purports
to document all apt variables. It's probably just an omission by the
maintainer(s), so I'll file a bug report.


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Re: sd card not detected

[Alex Mestiashvili]

On 11/02/2013 04:18 AM, Patrick Bartek wrote:

On Fri, 01 Nov 2013, Alex Mestiashvili wrote:


Hi All,

A card inserted into card reader is not mounted automatically and
even doesn't shown up in the dmesg output, but if I switch off and on
the monitor with cardreader or run lshw the card appears and is
mounted.

the same happens with the second card reader in the pc. ( one is in
monitor, second in the computer itself)

other usb devices work fine.

The hci/usb modules:

lsmod | egrep "hci|usb_storage"
usb_storage39406  0
ehci_pci   12432  0
ohci_hcd   22150  0
ehci_hcd   35820  1 ehci_pci
scsi_mod  131001  5 sg,usb_storage,libata,sd_mod,sr_mod
usbcore   110348  8
snd_usb_audio,uvcvideo,usb_storage,ohci_hcd,snd_usbmidi_lib,ehci_hcd,ehci_pci,usbhid

The system is jessie, kernel: 3.10-3-686-pae

Something must be missing, but I really wonder what, as far as I
understand hardware detection is kind of kernel feature..

Usually your desktop environment, whichever one you use, has the
utility, scripts, etc. that mount (and unmount) such devices
automatically.  You didn't say which one you are using.  So, if you do
have a desktop, something failed to be install that does this
mounting.  What that may be I couldn't say without more info on your
system.

I don't run a desktop at all on my 64-bit Wheezy system.  Just a window
manager (Openbox), LXPanel and Debian Menu.  I had to write my own udev
rules to mount USB thumb drives, SD cards, etc.  You might look into
that. Works just fine as soon as you have those scripts.

B


I use xfce4 4.10, but in this case I think it has nothing to do with the 
problem.

The problem is that the device is not detected by the kernel .

it is not visible in the dmesg output and not visible in the output of 
fdisk -l.
But other usb devices work fine - a usb stick is detected and mounted 
automatically.


ls -l /dev/sd*

brw-rw 1 root floppy 8, 112 Nov  2 11:32 /dev/sdh

/dev/sdh -is the cardreader device.

after inserting a sd card nothing happens - /dev/sdh1 doesn't appear, 
but it appears if I run fdisk -l /dev/sdh for example.


So I think it is somehow related to the cardreader, but because I have 
two of them in the same box and both don't work,  there should be 
something else.


How it is implemented in the current Linux systems ? is there a daemon 
which checks devices from time to time or is it interrupt driven or ... ?


it shouldn't be much different from the other usb devices I think.

Thanks,
Alex



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Re: Hosting advice

[Simon Bell]

On Saturday 02 Nov 2013 12:46:21 Igor Cicimov wrote:
> > May I trouble you good people for suggestions that meet these needs? We
> > would like to have at least one working email address by close of business
> > tomorrow (Friday, 1 November), or Monday at the latest.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Craig

I recommend gandi.net, been using their services for many years now. Very 
flexible all tech staff, USA data centres if you want.


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Re: Debian setup for python django development

[Curt]

On 2013-10-31, Chris Bannister  wrote:
>
> Have you actually set up a python, django, mysql development project
> using the Debian packages?  If not, then it is best not to guess, it
> will just further confuse the OP!
>

The crux of the matter is that the OP shouldn't mix pip modules and
debian packaged modules in the global environment.  It's one or the
other (in order to obviate much more future confusion); my opinion is
definitely to stick with apt.

virtualenv is a sandbox where he can experiment as he wants as a regular
user with pip/setuptools without jeopardizing the package management on
his system (he'll get the most updated modules that way, but no security
updates as with apt).

That's my understanding of the situation after briefly reading about it
on the internets.


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