Re: Japanese name use single space between the last name and the first name?
On Wed, Jan 15, 2003 at 08:01:50PM -0800, Osamu Aoki wrote: > I think some Europeans have names with the so-called "Last name" coming > first. (Hungary?) A few use LASTNAME Firstname sometimes (France, Hungary, Serbia, AFAIK), but it's also not uncommon to see the same people use Firstname Lastname like everyone else. The problem arises only when people use Lastname Firstname. -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: Japanese name use single space between the last name and the first name?
Hi, From: Gerfried Fuchs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Japanese name use single space between the last name and the first name? Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:57:27 +0100 > > I do not care which way to write, IMHO. But it has to be consistent. > > I was longing for consistency when I changed it in the DWN pages, too. > > So, do I need to revert the changes, or was it right? I think you can leave them. I will change Japanese names to use spaces to achieve consistency (however I regard this as rather low priority work). Any suggestions? --- Tomohiro KUBOTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.debian.or.jp/~kubota/
Re: Japanese name use single space between the last name and the first name?
* Osamu Aoki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-01-15 16:15]: > When I saw my name in document maintainer section in English with first > and my last name in one piece, I felt strange. I posted here and since > no one replied, I fixed that page. > > I think someone read that and updated those pages in "News" you mentioned. That's right, it was me. I thought you weren't aware that your name is in that pages, too. > On Thu, Jan 16, 2003 at 07:49:35AM +0900, Tomohiro KUBOTA wrote: >> Thus, though there are more Japanese names in DWN which don't use >> white space between family name and individual name, I thing they >> can be left as such. > > I do not care which way to write, IMHO. But it has to be consistent. I was longing for consistency when I changed it in the DWN pages, too. So, do I need to revert the changes, or was it right? Alfie -- > Na versuch doch mal der SuSE unstable zu folgen ;-) 6.0 -> 6.1 -> 6.2 -> 6.3 -> 6.4 -> 7.0? -- Rainer Weikusat in d.c.s.f pgp2OFeZq0lPe.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Japanese name use single space between the last name and the first name?
On Wed, Jan 15, 2003 at 04:15:01PM -0800, Osamu Aoki wrote: > I do not care which way to write, IMHO. But it has to be consistent. > > Also, getting opinion of Chinese person's preference in English context > may be interesting. I see most chinese names in Japanese web pages do > not use a space between last and first name in Japanese. You are right. We Chinese almost never put a space between the last and first name for native Chinese names. It is partly because vast majority of Chinese family names is one character in length, and there are very few two-character family names, which are easily recognizable by most Chinese anyway. :-) Cheers, Anthony -- Anthony Fok Tung-Ling 霍東靈 <--- Yep, no space. :-) ThizLinux Laboratory <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.thizlinux.com/ Debian Chinese Project <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.debian.org/intl/zh/ Come visit Our Lady of Victory Camp! http://www.olvc.ab.ca/
Re: Japanese name use single space between the last name and the first name?
Hi, Tomohiko, I think you explained very well. Here is my thougghts: Quotation from Tomohiko Kubota and Osamu's comments. > From: Osamu Aoki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ... > > When I saw my name in document maintainer section in English with first > > and my last name in one piece, I felt strange. I posted here and since > > no one replied, I fixed that page. > > Ok. I posted the mail because the comment with cvs commit may > mislead non-Japanese people who don't know Japanese custom. > (The comment can read that Japanese name uses spaces everywhere > in every contexts; which is not true. I'd like Chinese translation > of DWN not to use spaces.) I think you are right about situation. I was not careful about CVS message. Sorry. > I think a space may be used for Japanese name in English sentences. > Also, I added spaces even for Japanese translations if the name > is written independently in "()". Intersting detail :-) > However, I didn't add spaces when the names appear in ordinary > sentences because such a expression is apparently strange. ... > Right. Your explanation is consistent with mine, and I expect > non-Japanese members of this list will trust us. The keypoint > seems whether the name appears independently (i.e., book author, > sign on government/bank documents, name tags, and so on) or in > ordinary sentences. Very good summary. Trust Kubota-san, he lives in Japan, speaks Japanese, and very well informed. ... > > My intent of adding space in the English was to clarify splits > > between first and last name. > I understand your intent. However, I am afraid that many people > will misunderstand that "Osamu" is "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" and "Aoki" is "?$B=$", > while the truth is opposite. (I guess you are using 7 bit encoding JIS codes in the above) Yes, true. This is actually interesting topics. Most Japanese names are spelled as following order in Japanese: Last-name First-name (spelled in Japanese/chinese characters) But for most common way of spelling Japanese name in romanized format is: First-name Last-name (spelled in Roman characters) Japanese flip word order to conform to the expectation of English/Frenche/German/... speakers. (This is kind of officialized by the convention used in the Japanese Passport.) At least, some chinese (or maybe all of chinese) do not do this. So the "Mao Tzuo-tong"(maybe wrong spell but I hope you understand me.) I think some Europeans have names with the so-called "Last name" coming first. (Hungary?) Anyway, name order and its translation convention are very deep topics with much emotion: "which culture dectates the way you are called?" > > I do not care which way to write, IMHO. But it has to be consistent. > > Ok. Since it is I who modify English version of DWN for Japanese > names (by a semi-automatic small Perl script), I can change the > policy and the script hereafter. > > > Also, getting opinion of Chinese person's preference in English context > > may be interesting. I see most chinese names in Japanese web pages do > > not use a space between last and first name in Japanese. > > I am also interested. Also, I can add items for my script for > Chinese, Korean, Russian, Greek, Thai, and any other > non-Latin-alphabet people. Suggestions are welcome. Cheers :) -- ~\^o^/~~~ ~\^.^/~~~ ~\^*^/~~~ ~\^_^/~~~ ~\^+^/~~~ ~\^:^/~~~ ~\^v^/~~~ + Osamu Aoki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, at the gateway server +
Re: Japanese name use single space between the last name and the first name?
Hi, From: Osamu Aoki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Japanese name use single space between the last name and the first name? Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:15:01 -0800 > I may be the one to be blamed to cause this. > > When I saw my name in document maintainer section in English with first > and my last name in one piece, I felt strange. I posted here and since > no one replied, I fixed that page. Ok. I posted the mail because the comment with cvs commit may mislead non-Japanese people who don't know Japanese custom. (The comment can read that Japanese name uses spaces everywhere in every contexts; which is not true. I'd like Chinese translation of DWN not to use spaces.) I think a space may be used for Japanese name in English sentences. Also, I added spaces even for Japanese translations if the name is written independently in "()". However, I didn't add spaces when the names appear in ordinary sentences because such a expression is apparently strange. > Very valid question. Most name references in the modern newspapers are > spaceless and all in Japanese characters (I just checked.) I have been > spelling my names with separated format since most of the document I sign > are government/bank document where they have box for each section. Also > my name tag in my elementary school days tends to separate them. Right. Your explanation is consistent with mine, and I expect non-Japanese members of this list will trust us. The keypoint seems whether the name appears independently (i.e., book author, sign on government/bank documents, name tags, and so on) or in ordinary sentences. > At any rate, mixed character group document is unconventional and I do > not know what is right. My intent of adding space in the English was to > clarify splits between first and last name. I understand your intent. However, I am afraid that many people will misunderstand that "Osamu" is "青木" and "Aoki" is "修", while the truth is opposite. > I do not care which way to write, IMHO. But it has to be consistent. Ok. Since it is I who modify English version of DWN for Japanese names (by a semi-automatic small Perl script), I can change the policy and the script hereafter. > Also, getting opinion of Chinese person's preference in English context > may be interesting. I see most chinese names in Japanese web pages do > not use a space between last and first name in Japanese. I am also interested. Also, I can add items for my script for Chinese, Korean, Russian, Greek, Thai, and any other non-Latin-alphabet people. Suggestions are welcome. --- Tomohiro KUBOTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.debian.or.jp/~kubota/
Re: Japanese name use single space between the last name and the first name?
I may be the one to be blamed to cause this. When I saw my name in document maintainer section in English with first and my last name in one piece, I felt strange. I posted here and since no one replied, I fixed that page. I think someone read that and updated those pages in "News" you mentioned. On Thu, Jan 16, 2003 at 07:49:35AM +0900, Tomohiro KUBOTA wrote: > Hi, > > I found the following updates: > > > NeedToUpdateNews/weekly/2002/19/index 1.8 1.9 > > NeedToUpdateNews/weekly/2002/24/index 1.7 1.8 > > NeedToUpdateNews/weekly/2002/26/index 1.101.11 > > NeedToUpdateNews/weekly/2002/40/index 1.8 1.9 > > NeedToUpdateNews/weekly/2002/44/index 1.9 1.10 (It's not me) > which is commented: > "Japanese name use single space between The last name and the first > name". > > Either (single space or no space) will be OK in Japanese, though I > don't know typesetting rule when Japanese names in Kanji appear in > *English* sentences. Very valid question. Most name references in the modern newspapers are spaceless and all in Japanese characters (I just checked.) I have been spelling my names with separated format since most of the document I sign are government/bank document where they have box for each section. Also my name tag in my elementary school days tends to separate them. Many names in the authour section of books tends to have a space. At any rate, mixed character group document is unconventional and I do not know what is right. My intent of adding space in the English was to clarify splits between first and last name. > IMO, I feel single space can be used when I write my name independently > to fill out some forms. However, I feel single space is funny when I > write my name in Japanese sentence, because Japanese sentence uses > few (or no) white spaces. (Look the Japanese translations of DWN, > they don't use white spaces.) > > Thus, though there are more Japanese names in DWN which don't use > white space between family name and individual name, I thing they > can be left as such. I do not care which way to write, IMHO. But it has to be consistent. Also, getting opinion of Chinese person's preference in English context may be interesting. I see most chinese names in Japanese web pages do not use a space between last and first name in Japanese. After these research, I say English: single space Japanese: no space in news article, space ued for tabulated author name for books and articles. -- ~\^o^/~~~ ~\^.^/~~~ ~\^*^/~~~ ~\^_^/~~~ ~\^+^/~~~ ~\^:^/~~~ ~\^v^/~~~ + Osamu Aoki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, at the gateway server +
Japanese name use single space between the last name and the first name?
Hi, I found the following updates: > NeedToUpdate News/weekly/2002/19/index 1.8 1.9 > NeedToUpdate News/weekly/2002/24/index 1.7 1.8 > NeedToUpdate News/weekly/2002/26/index 1.101.11 > NeedToUpdate News/weekly/2002/40/index 1.8 1.9 > NeedToUpdate News/weekly/2002/44/index 1.9 1.10 which is commented: "Japanese name use single space between the last name and the first name". Either (single space or no space) will be OK in Japanese, though I don't know typesetting rule when Japanese names in Kanji appear in *English* sentences. IMO, I feel single space can be used when I write my name independently to fill out some forms. However, I feel single space is funny when I write my name in Japanese sentence, because Japanese sentence uses few (or no) white spaces. (Look the Japanese translations of DWN, they don't use white spaces.) Thus, though there are more Japanese names in DWN which don't use white space between family name and individual name, I thing they can be left as such. --- Tomohiro KUBOTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.debian.or.jp/~kubota/
