RE: CE Marking Passive devices
Yes, there is a reason. There is a Toy Directive which (I'm on unfamiliar ground here) deals mostly with child safety. As such, some really passive hunks of plastic (i.e. Barbie Dolls (and Ken Dolls, for gender equality) come with CE marks on them. When it comes to children, any piece of material, no matter how passive is suspected as a hazard. My understanding is that the Toy Directive requires testing to prove that toys don't present physical (i.e choking, strangulation) or chemical (i.e. toxicity) hazards to our most precious citizens. My guess is that the toys that you are thinking of are completely exempt from the EMC or Low Voltage Directives that most of us deal with. Their CE marking is probably based on the Toy Directive or some other non-electrical safety requirement. It's a whole different question than the one posed by Courtland regarding passive electrical components, which, I assume; aren't toys. Actually, along a different line of reasoning, (that doesn't apply to toys) I wonder if some manufacturers are CE marking items which are exempt from all of the New Approach directives? I wonder if they are affixing the CE mark as if to say, we're exempt from everything, so we must be CE approved? It could just be a way of ensuring that their goods don't get bottled up in customs. Happy Holidays! Chris -Original Message- From: Ralph Cameron [SMTP:ral...@igs.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:17 PM To: Courtland Thomas; emcpost Subject: Re: CE Marking Passive devices Many passive plastic and paper toys coming from China carry the CE label. Is there a reason for it ? Ralph Cameron EMC Consultiant and Suppression of Consumer Electronics (After sale) - Original Message - From: Courtland Thomas ctho...@patton.com To: emcpost emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:36 PM Subject: CE Marking Passive devices Hello group, I would like to know if there are any requirements for CE Marking a cable or any passive device, such as a basic surge protector. Thanks, Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: CE Marking Passive devices
There are a number of CE marking directives including 88/378/EEC Toy Safety. Before toys may be shipped into Europe they must be tested for safety and marked with the CE mark if they comply. The relevant standard is EN 71, Safety of Toys; Specification for Mechanical and Physical Properties. EN 50088 is a separate standard that covers the electrical safety of toys. A good list of the directives is available at: http://www.ace-help.co.uk/directs.html Ted Eckert Regulatory Compliance Engineer American Power Conversion Corporation ted.eck...@apcc.com The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC nor representing APC's official position on any matter. Ralph Cameron To: Courtland Thomas ctho...@patton.com, emcpost ralphc@igs.nemc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org et cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: CE Marking Passive devices owner-emc-pst c...@ieee.org 12/12/00 11:16 AM Please respond to Ralph Cameron Many passive plastic and paper toys coming from China carry the CE label. Is there a reason for it ? Ralph Cameron EMC Consultiant and Suppression of Consumer Electronics (After sale) - Original Message - From: Courtland Thomas ctho...@patton.com To: emcpost emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:36 PM Subject: CE Marking Passive devices Hello group, I would like to know if there are any requirements for CE Marking a cable or any passive device, such as a basic surge protector. Thanks, Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single
Re: CE Marking Passive devices
Ralph Toy Safety Directive, 88/378/EEC. For more information, have a look at www.europa.eu.int/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/121005.htm Best wishes Brian Jones EMC Consultant and Competent Body Signatory - Original Message - From: Ralph Cameron ral...@igs.net To: Courtland Thomas ctho...@patton.com; emcpost emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 5:16 PM Subject: Re: CE Marking Passive devices Many passive plastic and paper toys coming from China carry the CE label. Is there a reason for it ? Ralph Cameron EMC Consultiant and Suppression of Consumer Electronics (After sale) - Original Message - From: Courtland Thomas ctho...@patton.com To: emcpost emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:36 PM Subject: CE Marking Passive devices Hello group, I would like to know if there are any requirements for CE Marking a cable or any passive device, such as a basic surge protector. Thanks, Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Dec. 8, 2000 EMC/Telco/Product Safety Update Now Available
The Curtis-Straus Update for the week ending Dec. 8, 2000 is now available at: http://www.conformity-update.com This week's headlines are: TELCO POWER LINE CROSS CAUSES 210 TO FLEE. SLIM 6 IS HERE. HOST OF NEW EMC STANDARDS ISSUED BY IEC. DEBATE CONTINUES OVER OSHA'S ERGONOMIC REGS. FCC ISSUES NPRM ON SPECTRUM ALLOCATION. IT'S BEEN A VERY BAD MONTH IN ELECTRICAL SAFETY. JAPAN (AGAIN) AGREES TO OPEN TELECOM MARKETS. NVLAP PROPOSES NEW OPERATING PROCEDURES. MEETINGS, SEMINARS, ETC. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: CE Marking Passive devices
Toys must meet the Toy Directive, which is completely separate from the EMC or LVD. Patty Elliot Ericsson Wireless Communications patricia.ell...@ericsson.com -Original Message- From: Ralph Cameron [mailto:ral...@igs.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 9:17 AM To: Courtland Thomas; emcpost Subject: Re: CE Marking Passive devices Many passive plastic and paper toys coming from China carry the CE label. Is there a reason for it ? Ralph Cameron EMC Consultiant and Suppression of Consumer Electronics (After sale) - Original Message - From: Courtland Thomas ctho...@patton.com To: emcpost emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:36 PM Subject: CE Marking Passive devices Hello group, I would like to know if there are any requirements for CE Marking a cable or any passive device, such as a basic surge protector. Thanks, Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: SAFETY LISTING
Multiple Listing can also be done. The only advantage under that scheme beyond the one listed below. Is that none of the paperwork or the id number ever refers to the OEM. It really looks like the multiple Listee is the designer manufacturer. It costs a few hundred to do so, but some clients prefer that. Usually, UL will allow you to make the marking changes at the time you request the Multiple Listee because its a paper change only. So time isn't an issue, just the cost. Gary -Original Message- From: Aschenberg, Mat [mailto:matt.aschenb...@echostar.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 8:17 AM To: 'Courtland Thomas'; emcpost Subject: RE: SAFETY LISTING Courtland, We list the product with UL under a generic Regulatory ID number. This has many advantages. 1) We can change the model number as often as we like without having to resubmit to UL, given that the hardware doesn't change. 2) We can sell the product under other verndor's names without resubmitting to UL as long as the Regulatory ID is labelled on the product. I highly recommend this. Sincerely, Mat Aschenberg Mathew Aschenberg Agency Engineer EchoStar Technologies Corporation 90 Inverness Circle East Englewood, CO 80112 -Original Message- From: Courtland Thomas [SMTP:ctho...@patton.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 10:35 AM To: emcpost Subject: SAFETY LISTING Hello group, I have a concern about Product Names with respect to the Safety Listing. Let's say that we get a product tested through a testing lab and get UL approval. The product name is 'ABC'. A customer comes along and wants the product name changed to 'DEF'. Nothing else has changed on the product. However, the product isn't listed with UL as 'DEF'. What has to happen is the new product name has to be added as a 'Multiple Listing/Trade name'. There is a cost associated with this action. Has anyone encountered this problem and more importantly figured a way around it? Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Reminder, Today, December Meeting of SCV Chapter of the EMC Society
Free food and soft-drinks will be available till theyre gone, starting at 5:30pm! Everyone interested in the topis is invited to attend. This month's meeting of the Santa Clara Valley Chapter of the IEEE EMC Society is presenting: Richard Nute, who will give us a presentation on equipotentiality and grounding. The meeting will be held at SGI in Mountain View on Tuesday 12 December with the presentation starting at 7:00 PM. The Chapter's newsletter Spectral Lines with more details and the map are available from our web page at http://www.scvemc.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
CE Marking Passive devices
Hello group, I would like to know if there are any requirements for CE Marking a cable or any passive device, such as a basic surge protector. Thanks, Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
SAFETY LISTING
Hello group, I have a concern about Product Names with respect to the Safety Listing. Let's say that we get a product tested through a testing lab and get UL approval. The product name is 'ABC'. A customer comes along and wants the product name changed to 'DEF'. Nothing else has changed on the product. However, the product isn't listed with UL as 'DEF'. What has to happen is the new product name has to be added as a 'Multiple Listing/Trade name'. There is a cost associated with this action. Has anyone encountered this problem and more importantly figured a way around it? Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: SAFETY LISTING
Courtland - If Customer 'DEF' doesn't mind your file number on the Listing label you can ask UL to use your file number instead of your company's name to identify the manufacturer. It is a minor report revision that UL has done many times before. It saves the trouble and time of going through the M/L process and cost. The upside is that if you have other customers that wish to sell your products under their name, you can do so without notifying UL. Mike Campi Set Engineering -Original Message- From: Courtland Thomas [mailto:ctho...@patton.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 9:35 AM To: emcpost Subject: SAFETY LISTING Hello group, I have a concern about Product Names with respect to the Safety Listing. Let's say that we get a product tested through a testing lab and get UL approval. The product name is 'ABC'. A customer comes along and wants the product name changed to 'DEF'. Nothing else has changed on the product. However, the product isn't listed with UL as 'DEF'. What has to happen is the new product name has to be added as a 'Multiple Listing/Trade name'. There is a cost associated with this action. Has anyone encountered this problem and more importantly figured a way around it? Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Passive PFC (original post by lfresea...@aol.com)
...and thus you might not comply. Has the new A14 been given a DOP and DOW? I haven't seen it yet. Normally, when new requirements are published there is a DOW for existing requirements. Isn't it typically about 4 years? If you've been gearing up to meet the existing EN61000-3-2 how could you be expected to have this rug pulled out from under you on and immediate basis? Regards, Glenn Lesmeister Product Regulatory Compliance Compaq Computer Corp. Tel: 281-514-5163 20555 SH 249, MS60607 Fax: 281-514-8029 Houston, TX 77070-2698 Pgr: 713-786-4930 glenn.lesmeis...@compaq.com I am empowered to do what makes sense! -Original Message- From: plaw...@west.net [mailto:plaw...@west.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 10:58 AM To: EMC-PSTC Subject:Re: Passive PFC (original post by lfresea...@aol.com) When systems are tested using these techniques, make sure the latest version of EN61000-3-2 is used, incorporating Ammendment 14. Previously, simple techniques could be used to modify the input current waveform, and distort it outside the 'special waveform' envelope shown in figure 1 of the standard. This enabled you to use the less-stringent Class A limits. With the incorporation of Ammendment 14, there is no evaluation of the input current waveform to determine the test limit. The application alone will determine the test limit used. Patrick Lawler plaw...@west.net On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 10:03:50 +1100, Jon Keeble j.kee...@fairlightesp.com.au wrote: You may be interested in a paper Power Factor Correction for AC-DC Converters with Cost Effective Inductive Filtering by W.Wölfle Convertec Ltd., Wexford, IRELAND W.G.Hurley National University of Ireland Galway, IRELAND S.Arnold Enserb Bordeaux, FRANCE To quote the conclusion: This paper presents a new, simple and cost effective solution for the power factor correction of the input current of a switch mode power supply, which meets the IEC limits on harmonic distortion. A sloped air-gap inductor, which adapts its inductance values to the input current conditions of the power supply, is used to shape the current to comply with the limits for harmonic distortions as defined in EN61000-3-2. It is shown that using a classical inductor design, the filter inductor is too bulky, whereas the volume of the sloped air-gap choke is as small as the switching transformer of the power (e.g.100 kHz) supply. In fact, the volume required is not bigger then that required for an active PFC circuit, but at a fraction of the cost. The .pdf is too large to post, but I'll mail a copy to the first ten callers ... Seasonal Greetings - Jon Keeble Fairlight Hardware Engineering Manager 8977 9931 j.kee...@fairlightesp.com.au --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: CE Marking Passive devices
Many passive plastic and paper toys coming from China carry the CE label. Is there a reason for it ? Ralph Cameron EMC Consultiant and Suppression of Consumer Electronics (After sale) - Original Message - From: Courtland Thomas ctho...@patton.com To: emcpost emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:36 PM Subject: CE Marking Passive devices Hello group, I would like to know if there are any requirements for CE Marking a cable or any passive device, such as a basic surge protector. Thanks, Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Passive PFC (original post by lfresea...@aol.com)
When systems are tested using these techniques, make sure the latest version of EN61000-3-2 is used, incorporating Ammendment 14. Previously, simple techniques could be used to modify the input current waveform, and distort it outside the 'special waveform' envelope shown in figure 1 of the standard. This enabled you to use the less-stringent Class A limits. With the incorporation of Ammendment 14, there is no evaluation of the input current waveform to determine the test limit. The application alone will determine the test limit used. Patrick Lawler plaw...@west.net On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 10:03:50 +1100, Jon Keeble j.kee...@fairlightesp.com.au wrote: You may be interested in a paper Power Factor Correction for AC-DC Converters with Cost Effective Inductive Filtering by W.Wölfle Convertec Ltd., Wexford, IRELAND W.G.Hurley National University of Ireland Galway, IRELAND S.Arnold Enserb Bordeaux, FRANCE To quote the conclusion: This paper presents a new, simple and cost effective solution for the power factor correction of the input current of a switch mode power supply, which meets the IEC limits on harmonic distortion. A sloped air-gap inductor, which adapts its inductance values to the input current conditions of the power supply, is used to shape the current to comply with the limits for harmonic distortions as defined in EN61000-3-2. It is shown that using a classical inductor design, the filter inductor is too bulky, whereas the volume of the sloped air-gap choke is as small as the switching transformer of the power (e.g.100 kHz) supply. In fact, the volume required is not bigger then that required for an active PFC circuit, but at a fraction of the cost. The .pdf is too large to post, but I'll mail a copy to the first ten callers ... Seasonal Greetings - Jon Keeble Fairlight Hardware Engineering Manager 8977 9931 j.kee...@fairlightesp.com.au --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: SAFETY LISTING
Courtland, When we get a product listed we only use our part number for the listing as a way to identify the product, we do not use a product name. That way so long as the part number does not change the Listing will still be valid no matter what product name is on the unit. We even put variables in the part number such as 510-1000-XXX-XX when we get the Listing. This allows us to replace the X's with any alphanumeric characters. By doing this we are able to make changes to parts that do not affect the Listing and have a unique part number for each different unit. These are typically items such as changes to SELV circuitry, painting the unit a different color, putting a customer's name and/or emblem on the unit, etc. We also have some customers that assign their own part number to our products in order to resell it. In that case we include their part number on the label under the heading of P/N and include our part number under the heading of M/N which stands for Manufacturer's Number. This satisfies the requirement of being able to identify the item by the manufacturer's part number or name. Hope this helps, Kurt Andrews Compliance Engineer Tracewell Systems, Inc. 567 Enterprise Drive Westerville, Ohio 43081 voice: 614.846.6175 toll free: 800.848.4525 fax: 614.846.7791 http://www.tracewellsystems.com/ http://www.tracewellsystems.com/ -Original Message- From: Courtland Thomas [SMTP:ctho...@patton.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:35 PM To: emcpost Subject:SAFETY LISTING Hello group, I have a concern about Product Names with respect to the Safety Listing. Let's say that we get a product tested through a testing lab and get UL approval. The product name is 'ABC'. A customer comes along and wants the product name changed to 'DEF'. Nothing else has changed on the product. However, the product isn't listed with UL as 'DEF'. What has to happen is the new product name has to be added as a 'Multiple Listing/Trade name'. There is a cost associated with this action. Has anyone encountered this problem and more importantly figured a way around it? Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: ESD Floor waxing
Michael, The ESD Association seems to be at http://www.esda.org/. Regards, -Barry --- On Mon, 11 December 2000, michael.garret...@radisys.com wrote: The ESD Association (http://www.eosesd.org) in the US and the The British Electrostatic Control Association (http://www.beca.co.uk) appear to be the best sources of information and would likely be a better point to begin your inquiry. Thanks. Best Regards, Barry Mab...@anritsu.com ANRITSUhttp://www.anritsu.com Morgan Hill, CA 95037 Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: SAFETY LISTING
Courtland, We list the product with UL under a generic Regulatory ID number. This has many advantages. 1) We can change the model number as often as we like without having to resubmit to UL, given that the hardware doesn't change. 2) We can sell the product under other verndor's names without resubmitting to UL as long as the Regulatory ID is labelled on the product. I highly recommend this. Sincerely, Mat Aschenberg Mathew Aschenberg Agency Engineer EchoStar Technologies Corporation 90 Inverness Circle East Englewood, CO 80112 -Original Message- From: Courtland Thomas [SMTP:ctho...@patton.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 10:35 AM To: emcpost Subject: SAFETY LISTING Hello group, I have a concern about Product Names with respect to the Safety Listing. Let's say that we get a product tested through a testing lab and get UL approval. The product name is 'ABC'. A customer comes along and wants the product name changed to 'DEF'. Nothing else has changed on the product. However, the product isn't listed with UL as 'DEF'. What has to happen is the new product name has to be added as a 'Multiple Listing/Trade name'. There is a cost associated with this action. Has anyone encountered this problem and more importantly figured a way around it? Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: SAFETY LISTING
Hi Courtland, First some observations: UL only grants rights to use UL marks. Other labs can test to UL standards, but they would grant their own marks. UL has Listed Recognized Component other certifications, but not approval. In UL terms, Multiple Listing ML is where company X (Basic Listee) shares certification (but not control of the file) with company Y (Multiple Listee) model numbers can be same or different between companies there is an initial annual fee. As an option to ML, many companies use what is called File Number ID, where Basic Listee marks their UL File Number (E*) on the product to identify them, and puts company Y's name/logo on the product also. If the model number must change, put the Basic model number out of the way company Y's model # in bigger print prominently - no cost/no wait. If the Basic Listee wants to add an alternate model # (DEF) for marketing purposes, or for changes that do not affect safety, there would be a one-time cost (~U$600) for revising the Product Covered part of the report. I encourage my clients to use wildcards in their model number structure to allow for expansion without revising reports. Example: Today's new model is BELCHFIRE 2000 series. There are two versions which do affect safety those will be identified by the 2nd character (2100, 2200). The remaining 3rd 4th characters can be cosmetic software versions, allowing many combinations without updating the report. The Product Covered would read: Model 2XYY, where X is 1 or 2 and Y is any number, letter, or blank. You can also say may be followed by suffixes to cover an infinite possibility. All above remarks apply only to UL. I hope this helps. Mike Harris/Teccom -Original Message- From: Courtland Thomas ctho...@patton.com To: emcpost emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 7:46 AM Subject: SAFETY LISTING Hello group, I have a concern about Product Names with respect to the Safety Listing. Let's say that we get a product tested through a testing lab and get UL approval. The product name is 'ABC'. A customer comes along and wants the product name changed to 'DEF'. Nothing else has changed on the product. However, the product isn't listed with UL as 'DEF'. What has to happen is the new product name has to be added as a 'Multiple Listing/Trade name'. There is a cost associated with this action. Has anyone encountered this problem and more importantly figured a way around it? Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re:RE: Labelling for EN 60529 Degrees of protection provide
forwarding for masse...@ems-t.com Reply Separator Subject:RE: Labelling for EN 60529 Degrees of protection provided b Author: Massey; Doug C. masse...@ems-t.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 12/11/00 5:54 PM IEC-529 is usually invoked by another standard. In the -950 standards, clause 1.1.2 invokes IEC-529, and Annex T gives criteria and amplification for clause 14.3 of IEC-529. The ITE standards do not require the IP code to be marked on the product. We usually put the IP code in our specs, as a selling feature (IP66!). Doug Massey LXE, Inc. -Original Message- From: wo...@sensormatic.com [mailto:wo...@sensormatic.com] Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 11:25 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Labelling for EN 60529 Degrees of protection provided by enc losures (IP Code) IEC529, section 10, Marking, says The requirements for marking shall be specified in the relevant product standard. Richard Woods -- From: Robert Legg [SMTP:rl...@tectrol.com] Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 10:50 AM To: EMCPSTC Subject: Labelling for EN 60529 Degrees of protection provided by enclosures (IP Code) Group, Is anyone aware of labelling requirements for an enclosure tested to IPX-4? Must this rating be listed on the label? If so, is there letter size/shape legibility/indellibility attached to this requirement. Rob Legg Tectrol Inc. rl...@tectrol.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: SAFETY LISTING
The product displays the name of the manufacturer and the model number. The name of the manufacturer may be changed at will without amending the UL report if the file number is listed near the UL Listing mark. However, if you wish to change the model number, then the UL report must be amended or a multiple listing used. Richard Woods -- From: Courtland Thomas [SMTP:ctho...@patton.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:35 PM To: emcpost Subject: SAFETY LISTING Hello group, I have a concern about Product Names with respect to the Safety Listing. Let's say that we get a product tested through a testing lab and get UL approval. The product name is 'ABC'. A customer comes along and wants the product name changed to 'DEF'. Nothing else has changed on the product. However, the product isn't listed with UL as 'DEF'. What has to happen is the new product name has to be added as a 'Multiple Listing/Trade name'. There is a cost associated with this action. Has anyone encountered this problem and more importantly figured a way around it? Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Luminaire Controller to Save Energy
Dear All, I am trying to search for safety standards to investigate a luminaire dital controller for use with all types of road lamps to save energy. The 3-phase controller is located within an outdoor environmental enclosure and has RS232 and RS485 interface. Is IEC/EN 60 1010 a good standard to use for safety? Peter Merguerian Managing Director Product Testing Division I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. Hacharoshet 26, POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: 972-3-5339022 Fax: 972-3-5339019 e-mail: pmerguer...@itl.co.il website: http://www.itl.co.il TO LEARN ABOUT AUSTRALIAN AND NEW ZEALAND REQUIREMENTS, CONTACT ME AT THE EARLIEST STAGES OF YOUR DESIGN; REQUIREMENTS CAN BE TRICKY! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: TNV to Earth Insulation Requirement
Dear All, Assume you have equipment with external power earthed (Class 1) power supply with an earthed appliance inlet for conenction to the mains. The power supply output is connected to a dc unit with a TNV-2 interface with no separation to SELV. The dc unit has a earth stud for connection of an external earthing conductor. All exemptions for basic insulation in Table 19 is applied. My questions is: can the stud on the dc unit serve as my permanent connection to earth? UL1950/EN 60 950 Table 19 condition 2 specifies that the installation instructions specify that the protective earthing terminal shall have a permanent connection to earth. Is the stud the protective earthing terminal? What is the definition of protective earth terminal? From my understanding, protective earthing terminal is associated with the supply conductors and therefore the appliance inlet earthing terminal is in this case the terminal which must now be changed to have a permanent connection to earth. Is this assumption correct or can the stud on the dc unit serve as the permanent means for connection to the supply? If stud is OK, what is the min. size required? At 17:38 11/12/2000 EST, j...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/11/00, Dave Lorusso writes: If a telecom product is permanently connected (-48 Vdc Central Office Equipment), is it exempt from paragraph 6.3.3 Separation of the I'm reading this as there is no physical spacing required between TNV and Earth for permanently Is there anything else in UL 1950, IEC 60950, EN 60950, that contradicts this? Hi Dave: This topic seems to generate a lot of confusion and controversy, since most telecom equipment that the test labs see is subject to the isolation Many test labs seem to be unaware that the isolation requirements can be waived if certain conditions are met. However, UL 1950 does have provisions for certain types of equipment to not For example, central office equipment and large PBXs typically do not have isolation between TNV and SELV/ground. The requirements for isolation appear in several clauses in UL 1950 (6.2.1.2, To qualify for the exemptions, it is necessary to step through each clause and show compliance In general, though, equipment which has a permanently connected earth ground can usually For clause 6.3.3 that you mentioned, the permanent ground exemption can be found in clause 6.3.3.2. If your equipment qualifies for the exemptions from having isolation, there should be no requirement for a hipot test between your TNV circuits and If you plan to exercise the exemptions, I suggest that you review your rationale ahead of time with your test lab, before they try to hipot your equipment. The requirements in EN 60950 are pretty much the same as UL 1950, except that Norway and Sweden have additional requirements for the exemption that can be These requirements call for permanent connection or This may or may not affect your product if the input is strictly -48 VDC. Joe Randolph Telecom Design Consultant Randolph Telecom, Inc. 781-721-2848 http://www.randolph-telecom.com Peter Merguerian Managing Director Product Testing Division I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. Hacharoshet 26, POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: 972-3-5339022 Fax: 972-3-5339019 e-mail: pmerguer...@itl.co.il website: http://www.itl.co.il TO LEARN ABOUT AUSTRALIAN AND NEW ZEALAND REQUIREMENTS, CONTACT ME AT THE EARLIEST STAGES OF YOUR DESIGN; REQUIREMENTS CAN BE TRICKY! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: EFT DC blocking capacitor question
Sorry this is a little late, but it is Schaffner's official response to the
recent question from Antonio Cinquino Re: EFT DC blocking capacitor on Dec
5th.
{Posted by Tony O'Hara 12/11/2000, LARCTEC Marketing, Colorado]
Re: EFT DC blocking capacitor question from Antonio Cinquino
To the EMC Dicussion group,
I believe that using a 33nF cap in series with the generator as indicated
by Schaffner is the correct way to apply EFT pulses for mains and power
ports. Every diagram in the IEC 1000-4-4 standard shows 33nF capacitors
which are external to the EFT generator. The relevant paragraphs from the
EFT standard are listed below. In addition, it is important to note that
according to Section 7.3.2, if the capacitive clamp cannot be used for I/O
and data ports, discrete 100pf caps are used instead of the 33nF caps.
IEC 1000-4-4 Section 6.2 Coupling/decoupling network for a AC/DC mains
supply port describes the CDN for AC and DC mains ports and the circuit
diagram is shown in Figure 4. The text and diagram show a 33nf coupling
capacitor in series with each mains connection.
Section 7.2.2 Methods of coupling the test voltage to the EUT, Power supply
ports and Figures 8 and 10 show the 33nF cap in series with the generator
as well. This section covers conditions where direct injection test must
be applied.
Section 7.3.1 Test on power supply ports and on protective earth terminals
states that If AC/DC blocking capacitors are necessary their capacitance
shall be 33nF. This section also refers to Figure 10 where the caps are
shown in series with the generator.
And finally, to clear the air, all Schaffner burst generators incorporate
DC bocking capacitors with the mains and direct outputs.
Greg Senko
Sales Manager - EMC Test Equipment
Schaffner EMC
Tel: (603) 642-4694
Fax: (603) 642-7975
Cell: (978) 764-7358
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RE: Application of CE Mark
Cyril, CE marking the packaging is hassle free transportation of goods within Europe. As you say, this will prevent the toll gate officials from tampering your packs. If your packaging has CE marks and also a copy of DOC (preferrably in a plastic bag affixed to your packaging)the officials have no right to open your packs to verify compliance. This means that your packaging remains intact and your products remain safe. Praveen Rao -Original Message- From: Binnom, Cyril A [mailto:binno...@ems-t.com] Sent: Tuesday, 12 December 2000 6:50 AM To: emc-pstc Subject: Application of CE Mark Group, I am currently debating about recommending that our company affix the CE mark to all packaging (boxes etc.) slated to be shipped to the European Communities. We currently only affix the mark to the compliant apparatus and from my research (89/336/EEC Article 10(1) I have not found it to be applicable anywhere else other than the apparatus. With the growing talk of enforcement, is it conceivable to believe that marking the packaging along with the apparatus and instructions will aid in preventing future shipments from being tampered with or spot checked while entering the EC? Does the CE mark on the packaging aid in marketing of the apparatus? Thanks in advance for any and all help. Cyril A. Binnom Jr. EMI/EMC Approvals Engineer LXE, Inc. (770) 447-4224 Ext. 3240 (770) 447-6928 Fax --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
