Re: roaching manes
This message is from: Anneli Sundkvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Marsha Jo Hannah wrote: >>I recall reading somewhere that Fjords were not "war horses". The vikings rode them to the vicinity of where they'd have to fight, then dismounted, left the horses safely off to the side (grazing, no doubt!), and fought on foot. Fjords were used for transportation to the battle, and (probably) for packing loot home.>> So far, we don't know if different types/breeds of horses were used for different purposes in prehistoric Scandinavia. And, as Becky pointed out, we don't know if the breeds we have today existed in prehistoric societies as we recognize these breeds. What is interesting is that we now have a chance to find this out, since it is now possible to gain DNA from ancient bones. But to make a study on the horse breeds/types in Iron Age Scandinavia in comparison with modern breeds, would be a lot of work and a lot of money would be needed. But it is possible. I worked with people who are making DNA-tests on Iron Age horses from Sweden, and so far they have found several different types. One of them show relations to several modern breeds from north western Europe - Fjord, Icelandic horse, Exmoor pony, Shetland pony, ArdennesMabye this type of horse was spread all over north-west Europe c. 1500-1000 years ago and have then been 'made' into the present breeds by man and the environment. I'm dying to let somebody do DNA-tests on the horse bone materials from the famous Oseberg ship burial (9th century), but so far I haven't figured out how to fit in this material in my own work, but I guess I'll think of something:o) I belive that all talk about 'war horses' have two reasons: - Many depicted horses from the Viking Period is ridden by a warrior with sword etc. - Many graves with horses in them are also rich in weapons, which has led scholars to interpret these graves as warrior's graves and the horses as war horses. Regards from Anneli in Sweden
Re: roaching manes
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Well, it takes one to know one Jean! Hahah Jean Gayle Aberdeen -Original Message- From: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 3:34 PM Subject: Re: roaching manes >This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> The most sacred of all horses were colored white, grey, or grey >>dappled. These horses were NEVER ridden, but kept in sacred oak groves and >>treated like royalty. It was said their very behavior could foresee the >>future. >> >Well, this explains why my white dun mare Stella and her all white >granddaughter Anvil's Adel consider themselves to be royalty and have that >attitude! >I'll have to analyze what their behavior means for the future > >Jean in Frigid Fairbanks, Alaska where we are getting a little dittsy from >all this cold weather.(warmed up to -40F at noon) > >Jean Ernest >Fairbanks, Alaska >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: roaching manes
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Jean! I am not really sure, and I did try to find something pertaining to that. I came up with a couple of ideas, though. #1 would be the stripe was what the "norm", as they would have had very little use for any other breed of horse considering the harshness of the climates involved. This being the case, it is doubtful they would have really considered the stripe to be anything special. #2 would be the stripe would hold significance due to the variations of color, which did play a strong part in the Norse Cosmos. For example, light and dark-day and night, summer-winter, fertility-barrenness, mortal-immortal, are three prime contrasts. #3 would be the look and size of the breed itself. As the Norse were travelers, and did take their horses with them, it is possible the trimming of the mane could have been done to emphasis the size of the neck. The stripe enhances that even more. Even though the horses were not involved in battle, the sight of warriors on strong, hefty animals surely could have been terrifying. Intimidation has done wonders, historically. I believe, considering the documented emphasis placed upon pure white horses, maybe the stripe was normal but to have a horse without the stripe would place it in the "sacred" category. Oh yes, a few other trivia pieces of info. If one lets their child ride a pure black foal, the child will both teeth easier, and lose their first set without pain. I was not aware of black Fjords, anyone else? Also, it was very good luck to carry a foal's milk teeth on one's person. They would wait for the foal to lose them, and go throughout the foal's area trying to find these special teeth. Anyway, all for now about this topic. If I find anything further, I will pass it on. But so far, nothing concerning the actual stripe itself. Lynda
Re: roaching manes
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thank you Lynda,for sharing all this research with us, it is very interesting! I am saving it on a floppy. I wonder is the white or flaxen manes with the center stripe displayed had a special meaning. Jean in bright, sunny but cold Fairbanks, Alaska -40F At 07:13 PM 2/4/99 EST, you wrote: >This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Hello all again! > >OK, more info on manes coming up!! > > Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: roaching manes
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello all again! OK, more info on manes coming up!! It was very common to name horses with Faxi at the end of the namefor instance, Hrimfaxi is the name of the horse who draws the chariot of the night goddess, Nott, while Skinfaxi is the name of the horse who draws the chariot of the day god, Day. These names mean, respectively, shiny-maned and rimy- maned. There are numerous other examples, but the point of this is the fact the manes were very important to the Norse on a spiritual level, as I will continue to explain. By the way, there are various texts on this subject, but I am currently using Jakob Grimm's Teutonic Mythology, Volume 2, 1883 due to Grimm's extensive study and knowledge of Northern lore. On pages 657-8, he goes on to speak about horses specifically dedicated to the deities, especially Freyr, the Vanir god of fertility: "Such breed of pure and dedicated horses was destined for holy uses, especially sacrifice, divination, and the periodical tours of deities in their cars (carts). Their manes were carefully cultivated, groomed and decorated, as the name Faxi indicates; probably gold, silver and ribbons were twined or plaited into locks;because a mane does radiate, and light sends out beams in the manner of hair." Note, page 658 "Single hairs out of the mane or tail of a sacred horse were treasured up." It should be noted this obsession with hair is not uncommon within the Norse overview. The majority of the goddesses are described as having golden colored hair, hair like corn, shimmering locks, etc. Anything to do with gold, corn, light, radiance would have been sacred for many reasons although the most obvious would be wealth. Anyway, the ONLY reference I have found concerning horses in battle is a description of warriors noticing their steeds behavior as the troops TRAVELED to the conflict. If the horses were neighing, luck was with them. But, if the horses were "withholding the cheerful spirit-stirring strain (neighing)", defeat was a given. Anyway, I hope I have not bored all of you to sleep, but I felt compelled to attempt to shed some light on the subject. Lynda
Re: roaching manes
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lynda, Thanks for the GREAT information. I look forward to learning more. --- William M. Coli Extension Educator/ Statewide IPM Coordinator Dept. of Entomology Agricultural Engineering Bldg. UMass Amherst MA 01003 Phone: 413-545-1051 Fax: 413-545-5858 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Always drink upstream from the herd". From: A Cowboy's Guide to Life, by T.B. Bender
Re: roaching manes
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > The most sacred of all horses were colored white, grey, or grey >dappled. These horses were NEVER ridden, but kept in sacred oak groves and >treated like royalty. It was said their very behavior could foresee the >future. > Well, this explains why my white dun mare Stella and her all white granddaughter Anvil's Adel consider themselves to be royalty and have that attitude! I'll have to analyze what their behavior means for the future Jean in Frigid Fairbanks, Alaska where we are getting a little dittsy from all this cold weather.(warmed up to -40F at noon) Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: roaching manes
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello all! As my degree is in the Germanic Literature area, with an emphasis on Norse, I thought I would relay some "horse" info I have acquired throughout my studies. To set the facts straight, Vikings were only a very small window within the Nordic world. The Vikings actually came into being as a direct result of the Catholic invasion. Regardless, the Viking period is only about 250 years, whereas the Norse is over 4000 years. As bones from these horses have been found in grave sites 2000 years ago, this is about 700 years before the Viking Age, so my point is, these horses have been around much longer than "The Vikings". To the Norse people in general, the horses were an extremely sacred creature. While these animals were certainly ridden and used for agricultural purposes, the extent of their use during battle was purely transportation and divine blessing. Some Norse actually had longboats designed specifically to carry their horses to different locations! This thought of "war horses" has probably arisen from the legends of the Valkyriesdivine goddesses who rode horses through the air and over water to all battles, to guide the souls to the afterlife. Interestingly enough, in the Poetic Eddas (spiritual writings of the Norse) horses have various names pertaining to many different concepts. Such as waves, clouds, rain, etc. The sacred belief of the Norse as pertaining to horses derives from the fact of horses being the preferred and beloved mount of many of the deities. There are numerous legends to protray this, but I will not bore all of you with that. The most sacred of all horses were colored white, grey, or grey dappled. These horses were NEVER ridden, but kept in sacred oak groves and treated like royalty. It was said their very behavior could foresee the future. Some sagas also discuss the use of a horse head on a pike to scare other pillagers away. The horses were considered a direct link to the divine...and through this particular sort of sacrifice, the horses would guard the villages from all attempted harm. This was done very rarely, for obvious reasons. While I have not as of yet discovered the meaning for the cropping of the manes, I do have some ideas pertaining to the reason. I will attempt to go through some older texts I have and see what I may find. I do know the Norse were very practical, so it could have simply been a matter of effective grooming control. However, the Norse were also deeply spiritual, especially in regards to the horse. The dorsal stripe itself may play a huge factor in this riddle. If I find anything in my research, I will pass it along. Anyway, hope this helps! Lynda, temporarily from Texas, waiting VERY impatiently for the move to MI.
