Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box?
I do like the idea of being able to plug the flex wire into the box for PSDR connectivity independent of ddutil. I have at some times had stability issues with ddutil and would like another path into the box. Also I would like to see an output that would be compatable with previous X2 interfaces Do you really think this will be fast enough to do ALC? If you are going to use this to protect your amp it has to be virtually failsafe. 73 W9OY ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Flex 1500 Class A bias?
If you make the PA vapor phased cooled you can brew a demitasse of latte also 73 W9OY ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Computer
I had to try a couple of PC card-firewire interfaces before I found one that was stable. this is the one that wound up working http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-3-Port-Firewire-Fire-wire-PCMCIA-Adapter-w-Cable_W0QQitemZ300265343254QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item300265343254_trkparms=72%3A1416|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 The one that was USB + Firewire was a total disaster 73 W9OY ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box?
On 10/14/08 12:21 AM, Lee A Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do like the idea of being able to plug the flex wire into the box for PSDR connectivity independent of ddutil. I have at some times had stability issues with ddutil and would like another path into the box. Also I would like to see an output that would be compatable with previous X2 interfaces Do you really think this will be fast enough to do ALC? If you are going to use this to protect your amp it has to be virtually failsafe. Trust not protection to a software implementation on a PC. If you're really worried about overdriving an amplifier, then you need a hardware input limiter of some sort. There's just too many things that can go wrong in the PC environment (oops, it just hung, my protection loop froze..). Remember that the dttsp core has to get an input from the ALC signal, and then go in and adjust the gain, which then changes the levels of the signals emerging from the DAC. Software is ok for this kind of thing, but you want it running in a dedicated processor (e.g. That PIC). ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Panadapter response time
Ned: Thanks for the reply. Nope.. I tried that. It of course changed the averaging sample rate, but did not have an effect on the stability of the visual signal on the panadapter as I tuned toward it. The visual on the signal drops way down until I quit tuning. I played with all the display settings with no effect on the issue. I did find a couple of messages in the reflector that stated that the 5000 samples the the data at around 7 times a second (via the firmware) It states that the SDR-1000 was 3 per second. That may be the differnce. I love the radio. This is not a big problem. I just wondered whay there was difference between the 1000 and the 5000. Again, thanks for taking the time to reply. Mark NU8Z -Original Message- From: Ned Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:23 PM To: NU8Z Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Panadapter response time I wonder if it might be related to the averaging setting. Ned, K1NJ --- On Mon, 10/13/08, NU8Z [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: NU8Z [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Flexradio] Panadapter response time To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Date: Monday, October 13, 2008, 6:34 PM Just upgraded from SDR-1000 to the 5000. So far I really like it!! I do have one minor issue that I would like to inquire about. When I tune using the mouse wheel at a faster rate (say 50hz) the cw signals on the panadapter turn into a rolling wave as I tune toward the signal. It makes it difficult to see the signal while tuning. It's not a biggie, but that was not the case with the SDR-1000. The signals were always clearly defined on the panadapter as I tuned, even at the faster rates. I have the SR on (no difference when off) . Besides this, everything is great. Any suggestions? Mark NU8Z ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] ALC?
One highly-rated amp, the Yaesu Quadra, requires it. At least according to the instruction manual. Not to replace the mic gain control, but as an emergency exciter shutdown method. The ICOM PW-1 uses similar circuitry, IIRC. What would happen to the Quadra if the antenna coax connector opened due to an intermittent? I don't know, but in the case of an Ameritron AL-1200 I used to run it blew up the output circuit - I hadn't bothered to connect the ALC line. There was no time to unkey or cut the drive back manually. Protection against the above scenario could be built into the amp , and probably is in most designs. I suspect the Quadra has some sort of protection also, but the Quadra design engineers (in the manual) tell you to connect the ALC nonetheless. Other rigs provide hardware ALC. The Flex rigs or a Flex accessory box could provide some sort of emergency cutback feature in response to an ALC signal also. Not as a substitute for the mic gain, though, so it doesn't necessarily have to be smooth or linear - just fast. Most amps I have read about are fairly consistent as to the ALC voltage level, and provide adjustability within the standard range. Jerry W4UK At 12:20 AM 10/14/2008, Dudley Hurry wrote: I guess ALC is needed for _some_ solid state amps, but a good amp design doesn't need ALC. Besides every manufacturer has different specs for ALC use. Even solid state amp, if designed right do not need ALC .SGC500 for one has ALC, but not needed.. Of course watching the monitor scope is good too.. :-) 73, Dudley WA5QPZ Jim R wrote: ALC ALC ALC ALC and oh, did I mention ALC? Jim K5HY Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 17:15:22 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Subject: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box? Hi all Steve Nance and I have been tossing ideas around for the past few months on an external accessory (up to now called The Box) that would offer some functionality, in conjunction with DDUtil. We started off with Steve's first idea which was a box that could take ALC from amps and DDUtil could manage power output via CAT commands based on its reading. Now, we don't want this thing to end up too complex for my meager PIC skill set nor bigger than the Flex-5000 box itself but what would you like to see in an accessory box? Steve's list is: 1. ALC control 2.TTL (5) bit BCD ports brought out to a db25 connector My list is: 3. two relay-driven ports for controlling antenna switches (primarily Microham and Array Solutions) going into db25s. Again, this is just to dip a toe in the water and see if there is any interest in this type of device and what it could be. At this stage we are not thinking of it being Flexwire-capable, instead will use a USB-rs232 chipset inside The Box. I personally would love to ultimately have a FlexWire device out so whatever we do might morph into it sometime in the future but we are looking at FTDI USBRS232 at this time. So, what would you like to see A Box do? 73 Neal (and Steve) -- Neal Campbell Abroham Neal Software Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux (540) 242 0911 - Try Spot for OS X, the intelligent DXCluster Client at www.abrohamnealsoftware.com - $15.99 - For a great dog book, visit www.abrohamneal.com - See the FlexRadio Systems Flex-5000a in action at www.flex-videos.com ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] ALC?
At 10:52 AM 10/14/2008, Lux, James P wrote: snip In days of yore with an analog system, tight coupling between amp and exciter comes almost for free.. You bring some convenient bias control input out of the exciter and drive it with a error signal of some sort from the amp. (then, you have to deal with the whole negative vs positive ALC)... What is the whole negative vs positive ALC issue, James? I am not aware of any Amps that use a positive-going ALC voltage scheme, or any argument for its use. What amps use it? Jerry W4UK ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] ALC?
On 10/14/08 8:06 AM, Jerry Flanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 10:52 AM 10/14/2008, Lux, James P wrote: snip In days of yore with an analog system, tight coupling between amp and exciter comes almost for free.. You bring some convenient bias control input out of the exciter and drive it with a error signal of some sort from the amp. (then, you have to deal with the whole negative vs positive ALC)... What is the whole negative vs positive ALC issue, James? I am not aware of any Amps that use a positive-going ALC voltage scheme, or any argument for its use. What amps use it? Jerry W4UK Doesn't the K3 use a positive going input for ALC? ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] ALC?
At 11:36 AM 10/14/2008, Lux, James P wrote: On 10/14/08 8:06 AM, Jerry Flanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 10:52 AM 10/14/2008, Lux, James P wrote: snip In days of yore with an analog system, tight coupling between amp and exciter comes almost for free.. You bring some convenient bias control input out of the exciter and drive it with a error signal of some sort from the amp. (then, you have to deal with the whole negative vs positive ALC)... What is the whole negative vs positive ALC issue, James? I am not aware of any Amps that use a positive-going ALC voltage scheme, or any argument for its use. What amps use it? The SGC Power Cube uses positive going ALC Interesting - I googled it http://www.k0bg.com/amplifiers.html and read Although it has an ALC output, it is positive going which means it is incompatible with any transceiver including SGC's. WOW! incompatible with ANY transceiver. I guess that was before the K3 came out. Thanks for the reference. No more from me on this topic. Jerry W4UK ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] ALC?
On 10/14/08 8:55 AM, Jerry Flanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:36 AM 10/14/2008, Lux, James P wrote: On 10/14/08 8:06 AM, Jerry Flanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 10:52 AM 10/14/2008, Lux, James P wrote: snip In days of yore with an analog system, tight coupling between amp and exciter comes almost for free.. You bring some convenient bias control input out of the exciter and drive it with a error signal of some sort from the amp. (then, you have to deal with the whole negative vs positive ALC)... What is the whole negative vs positive ALC issue, James? I am not aware of any Amps that use a positive-going ALC voltage scheme, or any argument for its use. What amps use it? The SGC Power Cube uses positive going ALC Of course, the SGC is so bullet proof that nobody hooks up the ALC anyway. There are also a variety of lab type amplifiers (e.g. those from AR) that have all manner of ALC inputs and outputs, but they're also usually configurable or jumperable. (if you pay $50K for a 500W amplifier, you can expect a fairly sophisticated interface) My take home summary is that we shouldn't be expecting a PC based SDR to do any of this (other than, perhaps, setting a maximum output level from the exciter), and that the downstream stages (PAs) should protect themselves, rather than trying to push functionality back into the SDR. The one exception would be if you are building a highly specialized single purpose system, where you are willing to tightly couple components for cost, weight, or size savings. Jim ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box?
I think we have come to the same conclusion so there would be a PTT line pass-thru and we will defeat it if the calibrated voltage is exceeded (is exceeded t he right word for going too negative!) Neal Campbell www.abrohamnealsoftware.com AIM:nealk3nc On Oct 14, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Bob McGwier wrote: VERY sound advice. Bob ARRL SDR Working Group Chair Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. Trample the slow Hurdle the dead -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lux, James P Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:04 AM To: Lee A Crocker; Flexradio Subject: Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box? On 10/14/08 12:21 AM, Lee A Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do like the idea of being able to plug the flex wire into the box for PSDR connectivity independent of ddutil. I have at some times had stability issues with ddutil and would like another path into the box. Also I would like to see an output that would be compatable with previous X2 interfaces Do you really think this will be fast enough to do ALC? If you are going to use this to protect your amp it has to be virtually failsafe. Trust not protection to a software implementation on a PC. If you're really worried about overdriving an amplifier, then you need a hardware input limiter of some sort. There's just too many things that can go wrong in the PC environment (oops, it just hung, my protection loop froze..). Remember that the dttsp core has to get an input from the ALC signal, and then go in and adjust the gain, which then changes the levels of the signals emerging from the DAC. Software is ok for this kind of thing, but you want it running in a dedicated processor (e.g. That PIC). ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box?
Not sure why. The microchip (its going to be an Atmel ATMega128) will sense voltage every 100 milliseconds and if the calibrated voltage for that band is hit, it breaks continuiity of the ptt passthru line. I am sure we could make the delay smaller but I am confused why you think this is too slow! Neal Campbell K3NC [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM:nealk3nc telnet to our DX Spotting clusters at: dxc.k3nc.com, ports 12001 and 23 Devoted to Dogs: How to be your dog's best owner Great Dog Book at www.abrohamneal.com On Oct 14, 2008, at 12:21 PM, Lee A Crocker wrote: My guess is a PTT feedback scheme would be too slow to save your bacon unless it somehow anticipates the fault. - Original Message From: Neal Campbell K3NC [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bob McGwier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Steve Nance [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lee A Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Flexradio FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 12:06:56 PM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box? I think we have come to the same conclusion so there would be a PTT line pass-thru and we will defeat it if the calibrated voltage is exceeded (is exceeded t he right word for going too negative!) Neal Campbell www.abrohamnealsoftware.com AIM:nealk3nc On Oct 14, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Bob McGwier wrote: VERY sound advice. Bob ARRL SDR Working Group Chair Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. Trample the slow Hurdle the dead -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lux, James P Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:04 AM To: Lee A Crocker; Flexradio Subject: Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box? On 10/14/08 12:21 AM, Lee A Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do like the idea of being able to plug the flex wire into the box for PSDR connectivity independent of ddutil. I have at some times had stability issues with ddutil and would like another path into the box. Also I would like to see an output that would be compatable with previous X2 interfaces Do you really think this will be fast enough to do ALC? If you are going to use this to protect your amp it has to be virtually failsafe. Trust not protection to a software implementation on a PC. If you're really worried about overdriving an amplifier, then you need a hardware input limiter of some sort. There's just too many things that can go wrong in the PC environment (oops, it just hung, my protection loop froze..). Remember that the dttsp core has to get an input from the ALC signal, and then go in and adjust the gain, which then changes the levels of the signals emerging from the DAC. Software is ok for this kind of thing, but you want it running in a dedicated processor (e.g. That PIC). ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box?
I have two homebrew, solid state amps with no alc. The big amp (1kW) has no protection, uses MRF 154s, and takes 15 watts to drive to full power. I have accidently driven it with 100 W with no damage. The small amp (600 W) uses 4 MRF 150s in parallel pushpull. I built over drive protection into that amp. It will not switch the amp into the circuit if the drive is too high. This amp takes 10 watts to drive it to full power. I have experienced over drive several times on this amp, and so far it has faulted correctly. Having said all of this, I think the best protection is an attenuator on the input so the exciter can put out full output and not over drive the amp. With the Caddock film power resitors available today, it should be easy to build a 6-dB, power attenuator that could be inserted in the input of the amp. That would be difficult to do on a commercial amp, however. The Quadra uses 8 MRF 150s and I believe it uses a 4-way power splitter on the input which should offer some over drive protection with a standard 100 Watt exciter. I believe the Ameritron uses an attenuator in its input. If you wanted to add external protection, you could build an inline sampler that prohibited keying of the amp if the drive was too high. You would have to look at the hot key timing of the SDR to see if this would work well. Tom W0IVJ Lux, James P wrote: On 10/14/08 9:21 AM, Lee A Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My guess is a PTT feedback scheme would be too slow to save your bacon unless it somehow anticipates the fault. It would also depend on the PTT sensing logic in the software to work. Crowbar across the RF input? - Original Message From: Neal Campbell K3NC [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bob McGwier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Steve Nance [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lee A Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Flexradio FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 12:06:56 PM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box? I think we have come to the same conclusion so there would be a PTT line pass-thru and we will defeat it if the calibrated voltage is exceeded (is exceeded t he right word for going too negative!) Neal Campbell www.abrohamnealsoftware.com AIM:nealk3nc On Oct 14, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Bob McGwier wrote: VERY sound advice. Bob ARRL SDR Working Group Chair Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. Trample the slow Hurdle the dead -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lux, James P Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:04 AM To: Lee A Crocker; Flexradio Subject: Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box? On 10/14/08 12:21 AM, Lee A Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do like the idea of being able to plug the flex wire into the box for PSDR connectivity independent of ddutil. I have at some times had stability issues with ddutil and would like another path into the box. Also I would like to see an output that would be compatable with previous X2 interfaces Do you really think this will be fast enough to do ALC? If you are going to use this to protect your amp it has to be virtually failsafe. Trust not protection to a software implementation on a PC. If you're really worried about overdriving an amplifier, then you need a hardware input limiter of some sort. There's just too many things that can go wrong in the PC environment (oops, it just hung, my protection loop froze..). Remember that the dttsp core has to get an input from the ALC signal, and then go in and adjust the gain, which then changes the levels of the signals emerging from the DAC. Software is ok for this kind of thing, but you want it running in a dedicated processor (e.g. That PIC). ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List
Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box?
On 10/14/08 10:04 AM, Tom Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have two homebrew, solid state amps with no alc. The big amp (1kW) has no protection, uses MRF 154s, and takes 15 watts to drive to full power. I have accidently driven it with 100 W with no damage. The small amp (600 W) uses 4 MRF 150s in parallel pushpull. I built over drive protection into that amp. It will not switch the amp into the circuit if the drive is too high. This amp takes 10 watts to drive it to full power. I have experienced over drive several times on this amp, and so far it has faulted correctly. Having said all of this, I think the best protection is an attenuator on the input so the exciter can put out full output and not over drive the amp. There's also the use of ALC for bad load shutdown.. That is, too much reflected power, and it shuts down the drive to the amp. ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] ALC?
Me either! Neal Campbell K3NC [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM:nealk3nc telnet to our DX Spotting clusters at: dxc.k3nc.com, ports 12001 and 23 Devoted to Dogs: How to be your dog's best owner Great Dog Book at www.abrohamneal.com On Oct 14, 2008, at 11:55 AM, Jerry Flanders wrote: ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] ALC?
At 11:13 AM 10/14/2008, Lux, James P wrote: On 10/14/08 8:06 AM, Jerry Flanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 10:52 AM 10/14/2008, Lux, James P wrote: snip In days of yore with an analog system, tight coupling between amp and exciter comes almost for free.. You bring some convenient bias control input out of the exciter and drive it with a error signal of some sort from the amp. (then, you have to deal with the whole negative vs positive ALC)... What is the whole negative vs positive ALC issue, James? I am not aware of any Amps that use a positive-going ALC voltage scheme, or any argument for its use. What amps use it? Jerry W4UK Doesn't the K3 use a positive going input for ALC? Yes, and I suspect that was a design error. They have corrected (my term, not theirs) it, and now offer an official modification to change it to negative-going ALC (which works well, BTW - I use it with my K3/Quadra). But my question concerned Amps - are there ANY amps that provide positive going ALC? I never heard of any. Anybody? Jerry W4UK ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box?
I think it would work well enough. When I get a round tuit, I hope to make a gadget that will insert a 10 dB pad between the exciter and the amplifier if the ALC voltage exceeds the setpoint. It would have to be manually reset to resume full drive after tripping and would be totally independent of the PC. A simple PTT switch should do OK, with very little hot switching risk to the amp. If you build it, they will come ;-) Jerry W4UK At 12:21 PM 10/14/2008, Lee A Crocker wrote: My guess is a PTT feedback scheme would be too slow to save your bacon unless it somehow anticipates the fault. - Original Message From: Neal Campbell K3NC [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bob McGwier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Steve Nance [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lee A Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Flexradio FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 12:06:56 PM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box? I think we have come to the same conclusion so there would be a PTT line pass-thru and we will defeat it if the calibrated voltage is exceeded (is exceeded t he right word for going too negative!) Neal Campbell www.abrohamnealsoftware.com AIM:nealk3nc On Oct 14, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Bob McGwier wrote: VERY sound advice. Bob ARRL SDR Working Group Chair Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. Trample the slow Hurdle the dead -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lux, James P Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:04 AM To: Lee A Crocker; Flexradio Subject: Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box? On 10/14/08 12:21 AM, Lee A Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do like the idea of being able to plug the flex wire into the box for PSDR connectivity independent of ddutil. I have at some times had stability issues with ddutil and would like another path into the box. Also I would like to see an output that would be compatable with previous X2 interfaces Do you really think this will be fast enough to do ALC? If you are going to use this to protect your amp it has to be virtually failsafe. Trust not protection to a software implementation on a PC. If you're really worried about overdriving an amplifier, then you need a hardware input limiter of some sort. There's just too many things that can go wrong in the PC environment (oops, it just hung, my protection loop froze..). Remember that the dttsp core has to get an input from the ALC signal, and then go in and adjust the gain, which then changes the levels of the signals emerging from the DAC. Software is ok for this kind of thing, but you want it running in a dedicated processor (e.g. That PIC). ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box?
On 10/14/08 11:49 AM, Jerry Flanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it would work well enough. When I get a round tuit, I hope to make a gadget that will insert a 10 dB pad between the exciter and the amplifier if the ALC voltage exceeds the setpoint. It would have to be manually reset to resume full drive after tripping and would be totally independent of the PC. A simple PTT switch should do OK, with very little hot switching risk to the amp. If you build it, they will come ;-) A suitable relay driver, and one of these: http://www.mgs4u.com/RF-Microwave/RFrelays_N.htm (see the one at the top for $59, or actually, almost any of these would work, including the $39 one) And a suitable high power attenuator between two of the terminals. Or a load would work, too. If you need really, really fast actuation, then you're looking at something like a SPST vacuum relay and trusting that the exciter can tolerate the output being shorted/open. (mind you, as a product sold at retail, it's going to be a $1000 widget, because you can't depend on surplus being available, etc.) ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box?
I think I see the issue. The amps I have designed aim for time constants in the microsecond range and rigs like the TS940 aim for time constants in the 1 second range. How I have done this in the past is to use electronic bias in the amp and clamp the bias in the case of overshoot. The real issue is if you are loaded for 10W drive and you hit the final with 100W you will be way too lightly loaded and your grid current will go to the moon. Not a big deal if you have a 50W grid, like a 3cx1200, big deal if you have a 3 watt grid like a 8875 or some other tube that is rare as hens teeth. 73 - Original Message From: Jerry Flanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lee A Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Neal Campbell K3NC [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Bob McGwier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Flexradio FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 2:49:54 PM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box? I think it would work well enough. When I get a round tuit, I hope to make a gadget that will insert a 10 dB pad between the exciter and the amplifier if the ALC voltage exceeds the setpoint. It would have to be manually reset to resume full drive after tripping and would be totally independent of the PC. A simple PTT switch should do OK, with very little hot switching risk to the amp. If you build it, they will come ;-) Jerry W4UK At 12:21 PM 10/14/2008, Lee A Crocker wrote: My guess is a PTT feedback scheme would be too slow to save your bacon unless it somehow anticipates the fault. - Original Message From: Neal Campbell K3NC [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bob McGwier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Steve Nance [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lee A Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Flexradio FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 12:06:56 PM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box? I think we have come to the same conclusion so there would be a PTT line pass-thru and we will defeat it if the calibrated voltage is exceeded (is exceeded t he right word for going too negative!) Neal Campbell www.abrohamnealsoftware.com AIM:nealk3nc On Oct 14, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Bob McGwier wrote: VERY sound advice. Bob ARRL SDR Working Group Chair Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. Trample the slow Hurdle the dead -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lux, James P Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:04 AM To: Lee A Crocker; Flexradio Subject: Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box? On 10/14/08 12:21 AM, Lee A Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do like the idea of being able to plug the flex wire into the box for PSDR connectivity independent of ddutil. I have at some times had stability issues with ddutil and would like another path into the box. Also I would like to see an output that would be compatable with previous X2 interfaces Do you really think this will be fast enough to do ALC? If you are going to use this to protect your amp it has to be virtually failsafe. Trust not protection to a software implementation on a PC. If you're really worried about overdriving an amplifier, then you need a hardware input limiter of some sort. There's just too many things that can go wrong in the PC environment (oops, it just hung, my protection loop froze..). Remember that the dttsp core has to get an input from the ALC signal, and then go in and adjust the gain, which then changes the levels of the signals emerging from the DAC. Software is ok for this kind of thing, but you want it running in a dedicated processor (e.g. That PIC). ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives:
Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box?
On 10/14/08 6:48 AM, Frank Brickle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 9:04 AM, Lux, James P [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remember that the dttsp core has to get an input from the ALC signal, and then go in and adjust the gain, which then changes the levels of the signals emerging from the DAC. The DSP wouldn't ever see anything like an ALC level. All it would ever see is an asynchronous command to change gain, coming from some other process that *was* monitoring the ALC. Indeed.. And in the PC world, you're depending on all those processes working without a hitch. If you're worried about protecting a kilobuck or more amplifier, seems that trusting a PC might not be the best plan. ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box?
On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 9:04 AM, Lux, James P [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Remember that the dttsp core has to get an input from the ALC signal, and then go in and adjust the gain, which then changes the levels of the signals emerging from the DAC. The DSP wouldn't ever see anything like an ALC level. All it would ever see is an asynchronous command to change gain, coming from some other process that *was* monitoring the ALC. 73 Frank AB2KT -- I have taken the stand that nobody can be always wrong, but it does seem to me that I have approximated so highly that I am nothing short of a negative genius. -- Charles Fort ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] ALC?
On 10/14/08 8:06 AM, Jerry Flanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 10:52 AM 10/14/2008, Lux, James P wrote: snip In days of yore with an analog system, tight coupling between amp and exciter comes almost for free.. You bring some convenient bias control input out of the exciter and drive it with a error signal of some sort from the amp. (then, you have to deal with the whole negative vs positive ALC)... What is the whole negative vs positive ALC issue, James? I am not aware of any Amps that use a positive-going ALC voltage scheme, or any argument for its use. What amps use it? The SGC Power Cube uses positive going ALC ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box?
VERY sound advice. Bob ARRL SDR Working Group Chair Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. Trample the slow Hurdle the dead -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lux, James P Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:04 AM To: Lee A Crocker; Flexradio Subject: Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box? On 10/14/08 12:21 AM, Lee A Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do like the idea of being able to plug the flex wire into the box for PSDR connectivity independent of ddutil. I have at some times had stability issues with ddutil and would like another path into the box. Also I would like to see an output that would be compatable with previous X2 interfaces Do you really think this will be fast enough to do ALC? If you are going to use this to protect your amp it has to be virtually failsafe. Trust not protection to a software implementation on a PC. If you're really worried about overdriving an amplifier, then you need a hardware input limiter of some sort. There's just too many things that can go wrong in the PC environment (oops, it just hung, my protection loop froze..). Remember that the dttsp core has to get an input from the ALC signal, and then go in and adjust the gain, which then changes the levels of the signals emerging from the DAC. Software is ok for this kind of thing, but you want it running in a dedicated processor (e.g. That PIC). ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box?
On 10/14/08 9:21 AM, Lee A Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My guess is a PTT feedback scheme would be too slow to save your bacon unless it somehow anticipates the fault. It would also depend on the PTT sensing logic in the software to work. Crowbar across the RF input? - Original Message From: Neal Campbell K3NC [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bob McGwier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Steve Nance [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lee A Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Flexradio FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 12:06:56 PM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box? I think we have come to the same conclusion so there would be a PTT line pass-thru and we will defeat it if the calibrated voltage is exceeded (is exceeded t he right word for going too negative!) Neal Campbell www.abrohamnealsoftware.com AIM:nealk3nc On Oct 14, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Bob McGwier wrote: VERY sound advice. Bob ARRL SDR Working Group Chair Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. Trample the slow Hurdle the dead -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lux, James P Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:04 AM To: Lee A Crocker; Flexradio Subject: Re: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box? On 10/14/08 12:21 AM, Lee A Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do like the idea of being able to plug the flex wire into the box for PSDR connectivity independent of ddutil. I have at some times had stability issues with ddutil and would like another path into the box. Also I would like to see an output that would be compatable with previous X2 interfaces Do you really think this will be fast enough to do ALC? If you are going to use this to protect your amp it has to be virtually failsafe. Trust not protection to a software implementation on a PC. If you're really worried about overdriving an amplifier, then you need a hardware input limiter of some sort. There's just too many things that can go wrong in the PC environment (oops, it just hung, my protection loop froze..). Remember that the dttsp core has to get an input from the ALC signal, and then go in and adjust the gain, which then changes the levels of the signals emerging from the DAC. Software is ok for this kind of thing, but you want it running in a dedicated processor (e.g. That PIC). ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] ALC?
Dudley I am running a Tokyo Hy Power solid state amp HL-1.5KFX. The protection circuits are very fast acting and I can only run the amp at about 25% of its capability. Even at low 25 watt drive levels the peaks on the flex shoot over 100 watts tripping the protection circuitry. I have observed this on a scope. I know what you are thinking about peak VS. average power on SSB. I have owned this amp a year now, and find myself not using the amp at all, because I am seeing almost as much average power without it. This is not a problem with my old Kenwood TS-850 using ALC but the Flex is so much better, that I can't bring myself to use the Kenwood. I have tried turning the Flex leveler off and numerous other suggestions and audio settings without success. I really need a way to limit those peaks. Maybe the THP is not a well designed amp. Jim K5HY Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 23:20:13 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] ALC? I guess ALC is needed for _some_ solid state amps, but a good amp design doesn't need ALC. Besides every manufacturer has different specs for ALC use. Even solid state amp, if designed right do not need ALC . SGC500 for one has ALC, but not needed.. Of course watching the monitor scope is good too.. :-) 73, Dudley WA5QPZ Jim R wrote: ALC ALC ALC ALC and oh, did I mention ALC? Jim K5HY Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 17:15:22 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Subject: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box? Hi all Steve Nance and I have been tossing ideas around for the past few months on an external accessory (up to now called The Box) that would offer some functionality, in conjunction with DDUtil. We started off with Steve's first idea which was a box that could take ALC from amps and DDUtil could manage power output via CAT commands based on its reading. Now, we don't want this thing to end up too complex for my meager PIC skill set nor bigger than the Flex-5000 box itself but what would you like to see in an accessory box? Steve's list is: 1. ALC control 2.TTL (5) bit BCD ports brought out to a db25 connector My list is: 3. two relay-driven ports for controlling antenna switches (primarily Microham and Array Solutions) going into db25s. Again, this is just to dip a toe in the water and see if there is any interest in this type of device and what it could be. At this stage we are not thinking of it being Flexwire-capable, instead will use a USB-rs232 chipset inside The Box. I personally would love to ultimately have a FlexWire device out so whatever we do might morph into it sometime in the future but we are looking at FTDI USBRS232 at this time. So, what would you like to see A Box do? 73 Neal (and Steve) -- Neal Campbell Abroham Neal Software Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux (540) 242 0911 - Try Spot for OS X, the intelligent DXCluster Client at www.abrohamnealsoftware.com - $15.99 - For a great dog book, visit www.abrohamneal.com - See the FlexRadio Systems Flex-5000a in action at www.flex-videos.com ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
[Flexradio] flexwire-attached stunt box
There has been discussion here about some kind of external, intelligent stunt box attached to the flexwire port in order to provide interface to various things, e.g. ALC, antenna rotator control, etc. Something key to me would be some sort of scripting language that would become part of PowerSDR to allow people to easily tie events to actions. The scripting language can even allow things like ALC level conversion or even transfer function. Think 'CAT' without the rigidity. (FORTH? Embedded Java? elisp? OK, that's overkill) I liked Jim Lux's point about ALC not passing through the PC but instead should reduce drive in the F5K PA directly. That means that some of the intelligence would have to reside in the uP in the Flex box itself. Just a thought. Brian Lloyd Granite Bay Montessori School 9330 Sierra College Bl brian AT gbmontessori DOT com Roseville, CA 95661 +1.916.367.2131 (voice)+1.791.912.8170 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
[Flexradio] Flex Up and Running
After total failure with an IBM Thinkpad notebook (the firewire/cardbus and all but the kitchen sink on irq16 - Windows just plain stopped dead), I finally have my new 5000A up and running on a MacBook Pro using BootCamp/Windows XP (firewire is the only device on irq19). Unfortunately I am in a temporary apartment and using a screwdriver vertical on a 3rd floor balcony... the noise level is S7 to S9, so I can't hear much. Next step - 20 and 40m indoor dipoles. Hopefully less noise. At least the Flex is running, so now the learning curve starts. Looking forward to working some of you Flexers once I can hear something. 73, Wayne K4ELO [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] Flex Up and Running
Hello Wayne, I strongly recommend that you investigate small receiving loops. They are much quieter than a dipole or vertical, and because of their very sharp and deep nulls perpendicular to the plane of the loop, you can null out local noise sources by simply rotating the loop to place the noise source in the null. Here's a link to an excellent website with lots of great information. I built a small receiving loop for 40m out of a single turn of 5/8 copper refrigerator tubing, with a loop diameter of only 4 feet. (A 20m loop would be only 2' in diameter) Since I don't use it for transmitting, the capacitor to resonate the loop does not require a high working voltage rating, and can be a simple silver-dipped mica capacitor. I have a 40m ground plane at about 25 feet, and a 40m half-sloper with the top at 40', and the loop hears significantly better than both. It also works very well close to the ground. Mine is only about 8 feet above ground. Your FLEX-5000 makes it easy to receive on the loop and transmit on another antenna, by simply connecting the loop to the RX1 IN BNC jack, and the transmit antenna to one of the ANT# connectors. Here's the link to the website: http://www.aa5tb.com/loop.html ... and here's a link to AA5TB's very helpful loop design spreadsheet: http://www.aa5tb.com/aa5tb_loop_v1.2.xls 73, Dale WA8SRA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After total failure with an IBM Thinkpad notebook (the firewire/cardbus and all but the kitchen sink on irq16 - Windows just plain stopped dead), I finally have my new 5000A up and running on a MacBook Pro using BootCamp/Windows XP (firewire is the only device on irq19). Unfortunately I am in a temporary apartment and using a screwdriver vertical on a 3rd floor balcony... the noise level is S7 to S9, so I can't hear much. Next step - 20 and 40m indoor dipoles. Hopefully less noise. At least the Flex is running, so now the learning curve starts. Looking forward to working some of you Flexers once I can hear something. 73, Wayne K4ELO [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
[Flexradio] flexwire-attached stunt box
In my opinion the protection hardware should reside in the amplifier not in the flex box and not in the computer. The amp is where the $700 tube resides. personally I don't see much need for ALC anyway. I have long called for a scripting language for PSDR as long ago as the SDR-1000. Its power is obvious. I would also like to see a flexible button array developed, where the function of the button would be defined by a script. The F5K can have power limits directly entered into the radio, and it could be associated with something as simple as a button representation of the check box in the antenna screen that turns on the TR relay function of a given antenna. You would simply enter a max power into a field and when you switched on the linear it would use that entered max power as the max power. You could have the barefoot power independent of the max power. each antenna could have its own max power field associated with it. One thing I have found is the F5K is very consistent in the power it generates, within tenths of a watt. I am amazed at how stable the power output is in this radio. This is much more consistent than the SDR-1000 was. Combining the script language and the button field you could for example choose a button labeled Acom 2000 and the power level would be set up to send the correct power level to the Acom. If you turned off the Acom button it would turn off the key line to the Acom and you could have whatever power you wanted going to the antenna through the Acom. you could do the same with transverters or you could use the button field to set up a switching matrix for example that would control the directionaliy of a receiving 4square you have connected to the RX1-in port. Push the NE button and the RX antenna in the flex switches to the RX port and a command through the flex wire switches the array to north east. Click a button labeled Ant-1 and you would be back on the Ant-1 port which may be connected for example to your transmitting vertical. This is real power and would be something NO other manufacturer provides, or has even conceived of. It would make setting up a contest station very easy for example and would make re-routing things easy in the middle of a contest as well. At my station I use a patch panel that brings out the I/O of every amp and the key line of every amp as well as the I/O of every line in the F5K and all the keying lines, so to change a failed amp in a contest would be a matter of unscrewing 2 coax connetors, rescrewing to the new amp and changing the key line plug, and changing the max drive level in the F5K, a 1 minute proposition. You could easily set up such a panel to allow for a SO2R set up of 2 F3K rigs to be changed to dual multi status, etc etc. When I had the SDR-1k as my primary rig I had it set up so if I clicked on a spot on spotcollector (in the DXlab suite) it would change band, choose the correct antenna, set me up on the correct freq. When I hit the first dit, the Acom would tune to 1500W on that band and I would make the contact. It was true point and shoot. I had a second SDR on another antenna so I could be in a rag chew with my buddies on 75 running 1500W and be working every DX spot that came through on CW from 160 to 20 with the other rig. This is the kind of flexibility Flex radio offeres us. 73 W9OY ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] ALC?
Jim, You need to work with the ALC settings in the DSP tab.. I know quite a few have played with these settings and had varying rate of success, but you need to watch the ALC meter in TX window, you might need to lower the time for the attack and raise the decay settings, but this will depend on the rest of your settings.. Sorry, but the ALC is not perfect and it seems only the Hams rely on it to protect a device that should have the proper protection in it to begin with.. When you are working with the ALC setting on the Flex, you don't want to overdrive the audio (mic meter) past 0 for a certain power setting, but you need to have enough for the sw circuitry to kick in.. And be sure to have the Use Peak Readings for TX Meter DSP Values in the Setup menu.. Hope this helps. 73, Dudley WA5QPZ Jim R wrote: Dudley I am running a Tokyo Hy Power solid state amp HL-1.5KFX. The protection circuits are very fast acting and I can only run the amp at about 25% of its capability. Even at low 25 watt drive levels the peaks on the flex shoot over 100 watts tripping the protection circuitry. I have observed this on a scope. I know what you are thinking about peak VS. average power on SSB. I have owned this amp a year now, and find myself not using the amp at all, because I am seeing almost as much average power without it. This is not a problem with my old Kenwood TS-850 using ALC but the Flex is so much better, that I can't bring myself to use the Kenwood. I have tried turning the Flex leveler off and numerous other suggestions and audio settings without success. I really need a way to limit those peaks. Maybe the THP is not a well designed amp. Jim K5HY Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 23:20:13 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] ALC? I guess ALC is needed for _some_ solid state amps, but a good amp design doesn't need ALC. Besides every manufacturer has different specs for ALC use. Even solid state amp, if designed right do not need ALC . SGC500 for one has ALC, but not needed.. Of course watching the monitor scope is good too.. :-) 73, Dudley WA5QPZ Jim R wrote: ALC ALC ALC ALC and oh, did I mention ALC? Jim K5HY Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 17:15:22 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Subject: [Flexradio] What would you like to see in an accessory box? Hi all Steve Nance and I have been tossing ideas around for the past few months on an external accessory (up to now called The Box) that would offer some functionality, in conjunction with DDUtil. We started off with Steve's first idea which was a box that could take ALC from amps and DDUtil could manage power output via CAT commands based on its reading. Now, we don't want this thing to end up too complex for my meager PIC skill set nor bigger than the Flex-5000 box itself but what would you like to see in an accessory box? Steve's list is: 1. ALC control 2.TTL (5) bit BCD ports brought out to a db25 connector My list is: 3. two relay-driven ports for controlling antenna switches (primarily Microham and Array Solutions) going into db25s. Again, this is just to dip a toe in the water and see if there is any interest in this type of device and what it could be. At this stage we are not thinking of it being Flexwire-capable, instead will use a USB-rs232 chipset inside The Box. I personally would love to ultimately have a FlexWire device out so whatever we do might morph into it sometime in the future but we are looking at FTDI USBRS232 at this time. So, what would you like to see A Box do? 73 Neal (and Steve) -- Neal Campbell Abroham Neal Software Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux (540) 242 0911 - Try Spot for OS X, the intelligent DXCluster Client at www.abrohamnealsoftware.com - $15.99 - For a great dog book, visit www.abrohamneal.com - See the FlexRadio Systems Flex-5000a in action at www.flex-videos.com ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives:
