Re: [Flightgear-devel] Display flightdata in chase view

[Manfred Janßen]

Hi,

that looks like that what I need, unfortunately I am using the
flightgear as a dll and not the CVS/Head version.
Is there any other way to display something into the screen?

Regards
Manfred

Ron Jensen schrieb:
> On Mon, 2008-09-01 at 15:57 +0200, Stefan Seifert wrote:
>   
>> On Monday 01 September 2008 15:44:50 Manfred Janßen wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> is it possible, to display some of the flight data, like heading,
>>> altitude, airspeed in the screen if flightgear is in chase view?
>>> And if, can you give me a short hint where to search for that?
>>>   
>> Most of the time, you can just activate the HUD by pressing 'h'.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Stefan
>>
>> 
>
> Assuming you are using CVS/Head version of flightgear you may also
> + on a property in the property browser and it will
> display on the screen.  An example is this screenshot from Anders
>
> http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/.images/Airships/fgfs-NT-496.jpg
>
>
> Ron
>
>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FOV: Explanation?

[Curtis Olson]

On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Heiko Schulz wrote:

> The most ac's uses a FOV of 50-60.
> A lot of pages says that an objective with a focal length of 50 mm comes
> close to Angle of view of human vision.
> 50mm on fullframe has an angle of view about 46 degress.
>
> My question: why is the FOV set by default then to 55? Is there something I
> miss?
> (Of course I know everyone can set this value by his own- It seems for me
> that the ac's looks more realistic with a fov between 36 and 46)


Draw a line from each horizontal edge of your monitor to your eye, and then
measure the angle between those lines.  If you set your flightgear field of
view to that same angle (--fov=xx) then all the objects in your display will
be the correct "life size".

Here is what I mean by "life size".  In real life, an object of some size,
located at some distance from you, will cover a certain angle of your field
of view.  If you setup your view parameters as described above, that same
object in the simulator, at that same distance, will cover the same field of
view relative to your eye.  Thus I call it "life size".

When setting up a "serious" simulator with multiple displays to form a
wrap-around view, (i.e. multiple monitors, or multiple projectors tiled
together) you will get the best results if you carefully measure your real
world screen/monitor dimensions, and setup your individual flightgear views
to match those precisely.

If you think about, the angles you measure will be different when your eye
point changes.  This means you need to decide where the pilot is going to
sit, do your measurements relative to that point, and your display system
will look best when viewed from that precise spot.  If you move your head
(or sit in the copilot seat or view the screens from outside the cockpit,
you will start to see heavy distortion in some screens (like looking at a
picture from an extreme angle.)  But it will all look perfect (or close to
perfect) from the pilot's perspective.

One interesting thing that some people have done is to attach a head tracker
to the pilot.  Then as the pilot's head moves, you can adjust the individual
display parameters for each monitor/projector and this gives an even better
sense of 3d.

I've seen a system which used 2 projectors per display.  Each projector had
a polarizing lens mounted 90 degrees to each other.  The projector pairs
showed slightly different views from each other, slightly adjusted for each
eye.  Then the viewer would wear special polarized glasses with each eye
having a filter mounted 90 degrees from the other.  The result is that one
eye would see the view for one projector, the other eye would see the other
projector.  Then combine this with a head tracker and you can create an
extremely convincing 3d world.  It would be an awesome thing for a virtual
cockpit (except there wouldn't be anything out there if you reached out to
touch the controls.)

These systems can get really expensive and are hard to setup at home, but
they are pretty neat when they are all calibrated and working very well.

This is a 350Mb download, but it shows the result of some of the things I've
talked about here.  This was shot in a light twin engine simulator I helped
setup for the US Forest Service in Sacramento, CA.  It uses 7 monitors.  I
am flying an approach into 6WA8 (Ranger Creek, WA).

http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/tmp/MVI_0250.AVI

Finally, it's worth mentioning that our eyes are very adaptable, so you
don't *have* to get it all perfect.  When you look at a picture on the wall
from an odd angle, your eye usually sorts out what you are seeing quite
easily.  So if you don't have your monitors configured perfectly, your eye
can often adapt and get used to the layout quickly.  You might want to show
a larger field of view than your monitor actually covers, just so you can
see enough of the world to operate your airplane.  Going back to your
original question ... a default of 55 degree field of view isn't one size
fits all, but we determined that this was an acceptable compromise between
seeing enough of the instrument panel and the outside world, but not so much
that the view gets all distorted and noticably out of whack with reality.

One last, last point.  Field of view is something that should be determined
by the end user's physical monitor layout.  Aircraft designers should never
override this with a custom aircraft setting.  This is just plain wrong to
state it bluntly.  Please fight the urge to do this  If someone has
carefully setup their field of view to match their own display hardware
(like in the 7 monitor sim I show in the movie link above), then this
shouldn't get all screwed up when they load some particular aircraft!

Regards,

Curt.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Display flightdata in chase view

[Ron Jensen]

On Mon, 2008-09-01 at 15:57 +0200, Stefan Seifert wrote:
> On Monday 01 September 2008 15:44:50 Manfred Janßen wrote:
> > Hi there,
> >
> > is it possible, to display some of the flight data, like heading,
> > altitude, airspeed in the screen if flightgear is in chase view?
> > And if, can you give me a short hint where to search for that?
> 
> Most of the time, you can just activate the HUD by pressing 'h'.
> 
> Regards,
> Stefan
> 

Assuming you are using CVS/Head version of flightgear you may also
+ on a property in the property browser and it will
display on the screen.  An example is this screenshot from Anders

http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/.images/Airships/fgfs-NT-496.jpg


Ron


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FOV: Explanation?

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 16:16:36 + (GMT), Heiko wrote in message 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> 
> 
> --- Arnt Karlsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb am Mo, 1.9.2008:
> 
> > Von: Arnt Karlsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Betreff: Re: [Flightgear-devel] FOV: Explanation?
> > An: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Datum: Montag, 1. September 2008, 17:21
> > On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 00:30:09 -0600, Ron wrote in message 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > 
> > > On Mon, 2008-09-01 at 06:19 +, Heiko Schulz wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > > 
> > > > I have a simple question, but I didn't find
> > anywhere an answer:
> > > > 
> > > > What exact expresses FOV in FlightGear: are the
> > values meant
> > > >  in degress or in a other special unit?
> > > > 
> > > > How they are compared to focal length?
> > 
> > > 
> > > It should be Field of View in degrees
> > > 
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_of_view
> > 
> > ..which also points to 
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle_of_view 
> > addressing Heiko's focal length question.
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> Thanks a lot so far,

..before you jump to conclusions, beware that focal length 
is _no_ exact science:  ;o)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/35_mm_equivalent_focal_length

..on top of that we have X.org et al and our own ... "
--geometry=WxH   Specify window geometry (640x480, etc)
--view-offset=value  Specify the default forward view direction
 as an offset from straight ahead. Allowable
 values are LEFT, RIGHT, CENTER, or a
 specific number in degrees" 

...and finally nutcases building cockpit simulators, 
thru monitor igloos.  ;o)

..that said, a coupla quickie demos:
http://www.kevinwilley.com/images/educational/wide_angle/slide_pine_tree.gif
http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/EFLenses101/focal_length.html
http://www.kevinwilley.com/l3_topic03.htm

> The most ac's uses a FOV of 50-60. 
> A lot of pages says that an objective with a focal length of 50 mm
> comes close to Angle of view of human vision. 50mm on fullframe has
> an angle of view about 46 degress.
> 
> My question: why is the FOV set by default then to 55? Is there
> something I miss? (Of course I know everyone can set this value by
> his own- It seems for me that the ac's looks more realistic with a
> fov between 36 and 46)


-- 
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...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FOV: Explanation?

[Heiko Schulz]

--- Arnt Karlsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb am Mo, 1.9.2008:

> Von: Arnt Karlsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Betreff: Re: [Flightgear-devel] FOV: Explanation?
> An: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Datum: Montag, 1. September 2008, 17:21
> On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 00:30:09 -0600, Ron wrote in message 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> > On Mon, 2008-09-01 at 06:19 +, Heiko Schulz wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > I have a simple question, but I didn't find
> anywhere an answer:
> > > 
> > > What exact expresses FOV in FlightGear: are the
> values meant
> > >  in degress or in a other special unit?
> > > 
> > > How they are compared to focal length?
> 
> > 
> > It should be Field of View in degrees
> > 
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_of_view
> 
> ..which also points to 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle_of_view 
> addressing Heiko's focal length question.
> 
> 
> -- 
Thanks a lot so far,

The most ac's uses a FOV of 50-60. 
A lot of pages says that an objective with a focal length of 50 mm comes close 
to Angle of view of human vision.
50mm on fullframe has an angle of view about 46 degress.

My question: why is the FOV set by default then to 55? Is there something I 
miss? 
(Of course I know everyone can set this value by his own- It seems for me that 
the ac's looks more realistic with a fov between 36 and 46)

Regards
HHS

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FOV: Explanation?

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 00:30:09 -0600, Ron wrote in message 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On Mon, 2008-09-01 at 06:19 +, Heiko Schulz wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I have a simple question, but I didn't find anywhere an answer:
> > 
> > What exact expresses FOV in FlightGear: are the values meant
> >  in degress or in a other special unit?
> > 
> > How they are compared to focal length?

> 
> It should be Field of View in degrees
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_of_view

..which also points to 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle_of_view 
addressing Heiko's focal length question.


-- 
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...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] [patch] Pointmasses for the Cessna 172P

[Torsten Dreyer]

> This is a patch to the c172p-set to add pointmasses for all four
> occupant positions and baggage. We are extending the FlightGear weight
> and balance dialog for JSBSim and the pointmasses have to be defined.

both commited, thanks.

Torsten

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Display flightdata in chase view

[Stefan Seifert]

On Monday 01 September 2008 15:44:50 Manfred Janßen wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> is it possible, to display some of the flight data, like heading,
> altitude, airspeed in the screen if flightgear is in chase view?
> And if, can you give me a short hint where to search for that?

Most of the time, you can just activate the HUD by pressing 'h'.

Regards,
Stefan



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[Flightgear-devel] Display flightdata in chase view

[Manfred Janßen]

Hi there,

is it possible, to display some of the flight data, like heading,
altitude, airspeed in the screen if flightgear is in chase view?
And if, can you give me a short hint where to search for that?

Regards
Manfred

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Make the cross from marker.ac translucent

[Manfred Janßen]

Hi AJ,

thanks for that hint, it seems to work the way you say;-)
But at the end I did it an other way ;-)
created the things I need directly in the marker.ac file.

Regards
Manfred

AJ MacLeod schrieb:
> On Monday 01 September 2008 06:32:19 Manfred Janßen wrote:
>   
>> Hi,
>>
>> I tried this:
>> import the marker.ac into blender and changed the alpha and exported it
>> as  an ac-file..
>> In blender the view looks like I expected, but when using it in
>> FlightGear, I saw nothing.
>>
>> I saw that the ac I created with blender is only 1kb (original 4kb) and
>> I opened it in a editor and found lots of values in in the original,
>> that i miss in the new one.
>> 
>
> AFAIK (I'm not a Blender user normally) you need to have all the objects you 
> wish to be exported selected when you carry out that operation.  It could 
> well be that the .ac file doesn't actually contain the object you want at 
> all, which would certainly explain why you can't see it in FG :-)
>
> Just an idea...
>
> Cheers,
>
> AJ
>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Patch: Minor bugfixes for MSVC compatibility

[James Turner]

On 31 Aug 2008, at 21:57, Tim Moore wrote:

> I guess you're not using map::lower_bound because you want to  
> support an
> arbitrary ordering different from the map? What will the lower bound  
> result mean
> in that case?

Actually my logic is busted anyway, I was hoping to avoid a linear  
search of the data in the case where there's a custom ordering, but  
it's harder than I allowed for. So the current logic is not right  
anyway, and I have a fix pending for that. Of course it only affects  
the KLN89b in any case, and I have the feeling that my  
'FGIdentOrdering' solution is too general. In the longer run, I have  
two potential fixes:

  - allow a device with custom ordering to create a private ordering  
table (effectively a second index, i.e another map) - this only works  
if all the 'things' in the map are pointer-based instead of struct- 
based, which is one of the things I'm doing in my FGPositioned hacking

OR

  - just make all idents in all FG ordered the KLN89b way, since other  
docs I've seen have hinted that this ordering is standard in the  
aviation world. If someone ever needs some truly byzantine ordering,  
I'd need to rethink that approach, but it's the simplest and most  
efficient, so seems quite suitable unless anyone can present a  
compelling reason against it.

James

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Make the cross from marker.ac translucent

[AJ MacLeod]

On Monday 01 September 2008 06:32:19 Manfred Janßen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I tried this:
> import the marker.ac into blender and changed the alpha and exported it
> as  an ac-file..
> In blender the view looks like I expected, but when using it in
> FlightGear, I saw nothing.
>
> I saw that the ac I created with blender is only 1kb (original 4kb) and
> I opened it in a editor and found lots of values in in the original,
> that i miss in the new one.

AFAIK (I'm not a Blender user normally) you need to have all the objects you 
wish to be exported selected when you carry out that operation.  It could 
well be that the .ac file doesn't actually contain the object you want at 
all, which would certainly explain why you can't see it in FG :-)

Just an idea...

Cheers,

AJ

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