Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
AnMaster wrote: >-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >Hash: SHA512 > > > >John Wojnaroski wrote: > > >>I've yet to see a system that IMHO tops what Mark Harris did a few years >>ago part of his doctoral thesis. >> >>See http://www.lfstech.com/img/sfo_clouds.jpg. >> >> >Another thing, in that picture there are some lines out in the water at runway >28R and 28L. What are those lines? They don't seem to exist in current fgfs >scenery. Why? I can find some lines there if I look at google map. > That jpeg is a few years old and IIRC used FG-0.9.8 at that time. I believe those are the structures that hold the approach lights and rabbit lights for the runways. John - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
Tim Moore wrote: >-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >Hash: SHA1 > >Harald JOHNSEN wrote: > > >>Vivian Meazza wrote: >> >> >> >>>John Wojnaroski >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >... > > I've yet to see a system that IMHO tops what Mark Harris did a few years ago part of his doctoral thesis. See http://www.lfstech.com/img/sfo_clouds.jpg. Someone made a decision a few years ago to replace rather than improve. Think we all lost a very promising implementation, but there might be an opportunity to recover what was lost. Stay tuned... John >>There are methods today to do real volumetric display with slices from a >>3d volume, so yes there is method to draw clouds a lot better than those. >>The old implementation of the Harris code in fg was using hard coded >>cloud shape, hard coded cloud relative position between clouds, hard >>coded group of cloud around ksfo. The next implementation could do >>clouds everywhere on the planet, parametrable cloud shapes in an xml >>file (Harris was using a non editable binary format), parametrable cloud >>formation type. >>Wasn't that some kind of improvement ? What could have been improved >>then is some new texture for the cloud particles or new shapes or >>whatever, frankly anybody could enhance what I did. >>Hm wait, you did not realize that Harris clouds are *slow* and ppl on >>this list were using depreciated hardware... >>Using his method to render the clouds is very easy to integrate in our code. >> >> >For what it's worth, I recently ported Harris' old SkyWorks code, on which his >contribution to FlightGear was based, to Linux for some playing around. I'll >make >that code available soon, but I have to agree with Harald's critique of the old >code. In particular, the key illumination step for a particular cloud is *very* >expensive -- in the SkyWorks code it repeatedly reads back color values from >the >frame buffer for each particle in a cloud -- which is why particular clouds >were >hard-coded. Harris has since described algorithms that are more dynamic and >which >require heavy-duty GPU firepower, something that always seems to be sensitive >topic >here. > >A free cloud library based on Harris' work, integratable with other OSG >applications, >would attract a large following and would be a very cool thing. In the mean >time, >in order to learn some of the issues, it would be very good to port Harald's >plib-based >work into OSG FlightGear. > > > Are you suggesting a library based on Harris' work or Harald's? or both? John - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
Detlef Faber wrote: >Am Samstag, den 01.09.2007, 22:24 +0100 schrieb Vivian Meazza: > >... > > > >>I'm with you on this one John, except I can't see how to integrate that >>solution, or the particle solution with the weather radar. But perhaps some >>real expert can ... >> >> I'm working on an idea using RTT, Mark's clouds, voxel positions, and my own version of a wx/ground radar, but other things keep getting in the way... >> >> >This is exactly the point I like to know. What is the best way to use >particle systems in clouds. It is easy to populate a large area with >somehow good looking billboard clouds, but they will not be dynamic. > Hmmm, why not? If the clouds are formed from a set of data, just change/update the data and reload. Just a question of finding a way to do it without bringing the sim to it's knees. Mark was looking into that but life got in the way. He finished his thesis and went to work for Nvidia in London. Poor boy. ;-) >The Particle solution can create constantly changing cloud formations, >buildup of thunderclouds, thermal caps, even altostratus clouds can be >implemented and dynamically placed. >I just need to know what actually can be used for Flightgear. If you >need a generic cumulus cloud 500x800 m increasing in size dependent on >temperature and drifting with the wind, it can be done. But if there is >no means for placing it in the FG World it is usele > > HeHe, same problem I had with the clouds. Never got my head around the plib scenegraph. The clouds worked but the implementation was always a bit of a kludge and needed some real work beyond my abilities at the time... John - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Harald JOHNSEN wrote: > Vivian Meazza wrote: > >> John Wojnaroski >> >> >> ... >>> >>> I've yet to see a system that IMHO tops what Mark Harris did >>> a few years >>> ago part of his doctoral thesis. >>> >>> See http://www.lfstech.com/img/sfo_clouds.jpg. >>> >>> Someone made a decision a few years ago to replace rather >>> than improve. >>> Think we all lost a very promising >>> implementation, but there might be an opportunity to recover >>> what was lost. >>> >>> Stay tuned... >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> > There are methods today to do real volumetric display with slices from a > 3d volume, so yes there is method to draw clouds a lot better than those. > The old implementation of the Harris code in fg was using hard coded > cloud shape, hard coded cloud relative position between clouds, hard > coded group of cloud around ksfo. The next implementation could do > clouds everywhere on the planet, parametrable cloud shapes in an xml > file (Harris was using a non editable binary format), parametrable cloud > formation type. > Wasn't that some kind of improvement ? What could have been improved > then is some new texture for the cloud particles or new shapes or > whatever, frankly anybody could enhance what I did. > Hm wait, you did not realize that Harris clouds are *slow* and ppl on > this list were using depreciated hardware... > Using his method to render the clouds is very easy to integrate in our code. For what it's worth, I recently ported Harris' old SkyWorks code, on which his contribution to FlightGear was based, to Linux for some playing around. I'll make that code available soon, but I have to agree with Harald's critique of the old code. In particular, the key illumination step for a particular cloud is *very* expensive -- in the SkyWorks code it repeatedly reads back color values from the frame buffer for each particle in a cloud -- which is why particular clouds were hard-coded. Harris has since described algorithms that are more dynamic and which require heavy-duty GPU firepower, something that always seems to be sensitive topic here. A free cloud library based on Harris' work, integratable with other OSG applications, would attract a large following and would be a very cool thing. In the mean time, in order to learn some of the issues, it would be very good to port Harald's plib-based work into OSG FlightGear. Tim -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFG2sU4eDhWHdXrDRURAtmqAKCKm0pFfFyXFWE6YaCsjXZ/AuunhwCg4x3R 8D1t6PzDu8llfSo89C2w9As= =dLHl -END PGP SIGNATURE- - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
Looks real nice, but before we implement such things, I think we have to solve one thing: a bad big impact of fps which appears, when there transparency is drawn. Greetings HHS --- Detlef Faber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > Hello everybody, > > I've been playing around with OSGs Particle Systems > and found this might > be suitable to create some 3d clouds. But see > yourself: > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ksfo-under-clouds.jpg > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/cloudfront.jpg > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/clouds-over-ksfo.jpg > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/bushfire.jpg > > Here is a zip containing the files. > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ParticleSys.tar.gz > > Put it in /Models/ and use the ufo to place them. > clouds.xml creates a 20x20 km big cloud field. > > Sometimes particle systems do not work at once. They > cannot (yet) be > placed as static objects in the scenery. Finally > they get clipped by the > Cloud Layer, so be sure to switch off any clouds. > > Perhaps someone with knowlage of the weather system > has an idea how to > use these. > > Greetings > > Detlef > > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? > Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using > AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> > http://get.splunk.com/ > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > Machen Sie Yahoo! zu Ihrer Startseite. Los geht's: http://de.yahoo.com/set - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
Yes, that's the point. If anyone is interested, there is a manual and a .exe, which shows how today 3d-Clouds could work: http://www.ecn.purdue.edu/purpl/projects/fastclouds/publicmedia/manual/index.htm And here a lot of more Ideas about clouds: http://www.vterrain.org/Atmosphere/Clouds/ Greetings HHS --- Harald JOHNSEN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > Vivian Meazza wrote: > > >John Wojnaroski > > > > > > > >>Behalf Of > >>Sent: 01 September 2007 21:47 > >>To: FlightGear developers discussions > >>Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems > >> > >> > >>I've yet to see a system that IMHO tops what Mark > Harris did > >>a few years > >>ago part of his doctoral thesis. > >> > >>See http://www.lfstech.com/img/sfo_clouds.jpg. > >> > >>Someone made a decision a few years ago to replace > rather > >>than improve. > >>Think we all lost a very promising > >>implementation, but there might be an opportunity > to recover > >>what was lost. > >> > >>Stay tuned... > >> > >>John > >> > >> > >> > There are methods today to do real volumetric > display with slices from a > 3d volume, so yes there is method to draw clouds a > lot better than those. > The old implementation of the Harris code in fg was > using hard coded > cloud shape, hard coded cloud relative position > between clouds, hard > coded group of cloud around ksfo. The next > implementation could do > clouds everywhere on the planet, parametrable cloud > shapes in an xml > file (Harris was using a non editable binary > format), parametrable cloud > formation type. > Wasn't that some kind of improvement ? What could > have been improved > then is some new texture for the cloud particles or > new shapes or > whatever, frankly anybody could enhance what I did. > Hm wait, you did not realize that Harris clouds are > *slow* and ppl on > this list were using depreciated hardware... > Using his method to render the clouds is very easy > to integrate in our code. > > > > >I'm with you on this one John, except I can't see > how to integrate that > >solution, or the particle solution with the weather > radar. But perhaps some > >real expert can ... > > > >Vivian > > > > > > > You don't have to integrate anything. Cloud > visualization has nothing to > do with the radar, the radar only uses the cloud > position. > > HJ. > > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? > Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using > AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> > http://get.splunk.com/ > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > Die etwas anderen Infos rund um das Thema Reisen. BE A BETTER WELTENBUMMLER! www.yahoo.de/clever - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 John Wojnaroski wrote: > I've yet to see a system that IMHO tops what Mark Harris did a few years > ago part of his doctoral thesis. > > See http://www.lfstech.com/img/sfo_clouds.jpg. Another thing, in that picture there are some lines out in the water at runway 28R and 28L. What are those lines? They don't seem to exist in current fgfs scenery. Why? I can find some lines there if I look at google map. > > Someone made a decision a few years ago to replace rather than improve. > Think we all lost a very promising > implementation, but there might be an opportunity to recover what was lost. > > Stay tuned... > > John > >> Detlef Faber wrote: >> >> >>> Hello everybody, >>> >>> I've been playing around with OSGs Particle Systems and found this might >>> be suitable to create some 3d clouds. But see yourself: >>> >>> http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ksfo-under-clouds.jpg >>> http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/cloudfront.jpg >>> http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/clouds-over-ksfo.jpg >>> http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/bushfire.jpg >>> >>> Here is a zip containing the files. >>> http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ParticleSys.tar.gz >>> >>> Put it in /Models/ and use the ufo to place them. >>> clouds.xml creates a 20x20 km big cloud field. >>> >>> Sometimes particle systems do not work at once. They cannot (yet) be >>> placed as static objects in the scenery. Finally they get clipped by the >>> Cloud Layer, so be sure to switch off any clouds. >>> >>> Perhaps someone with knowlage of the weather system has an idea how to >>> use these. >>> >>> Greetings >>> >>> Detlef >>> >>> >>> - >>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. >>> Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. >>> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. >>> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ >>> ___ >>> Flightgear-devel mailing list >>> Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFG2oyrWmK6ng/aMNkRCrx9AJ9GZPdGpgd9ufZN3nCmo8g2ttdRwACgvM0p a+Rz0bo8QUbYK160LPQLMZg= =6aO6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
* Harald JOHNSEN -- 9/2/2007 10:35 AM: > The old implementation of the Harris code in fg was using hard coded > cloud shape, hard coded cloud relative position between clouds, hard > coded group of cloud around ksfo. The next implementation could [...] > Wasn't that some kind of improvement ? Yes, definitely. The Harris thing in fgfs was just a proof of concept, and better than nothing. But that was it. It was rather forcefully bolted on fgfs. The binary blobs were horrible, and the whole thing didn't really work well. But this was neither Harris' fault, nor the one's who kind-of adapted it for fgfs. It wasn't really meant to be perfect at that time. And it's also not removed, but still in CVS. So, if someone wants to pick it up and make it good (and fast!), just go ahead. :-) m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
Vivian Meazza wrote: >John Wojnaroski > > > >>Behalf Of >>Sent: 01 September 2007 21:47 >>To: FlightGear developers discussions >>Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems >> >> >>I've yet to see a system that IMHO tops what Mark Harris did >>a few years >>ago part of his doctoral thesis. >> >>See http://www.lfstech.com/img/sfo_clouds.jpg. >> >>Someone made a decision a few years ago to replace rather >>than improve. >>Think we all lost a very promising >>implementation, but there might be an opportunity to recover >>what was lost. >> >>Stay tuned... >> >>John >> >> >> There are methods today to do real volumetric display with slices from a 3d volume, so yes there is method to draw clouds a lot better than those. The old implementation of the Harris code in fg was using hard coded cloud shape, hard coded cloud relative position between clouds, hard coded group of cloud around ksfo. The next implementation could do clouds everywhere on the planet, parametrable cloud shapes in an xml file (Harris was using a non editable binary format), parametrable cloud formation type. Wasn't that some kind of improvement ? What could have been improved then is some new texture for the cloud particles or new shapes or whatever, frankly anybody could enhance what I did. Hm wait, you did not realize that Harris clouds are *slow* and ppl on this list were using depreciated hardware... Using his method to render the clouds is very easy to integrate in our code. > >I'm with you on this one John, except I can't see how to integrate that >solution, or the particle solution with the weather radar. But perhaps some >real expert can ... > >Vivian > > > You don't have to integrate anything. Cloud visualization has nothing to do with the radar, the radar only uses the cloud position. HJ. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
Am Samstag, den 01.09.2007, 22:15 +0200 schrieb AnMaster: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA512 > > In your picture there are odd sharp "edges" in the clouds, without that fixed > it would be unacceptable. See for example right part of clouds in > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/clouds-over-ksfo.jpg > You are right, the particles are a quick hack and will be replaced with improved ones, if the system is ever going to be used Greetings Detlef > /AnMaster > > Detlef Faber wrote: > > Hello everybody, > > > > I've been playing around with OSGs Particle Systems and found this might > > be suitable to create some 3d clouds. But see yourself: > > > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ksfo-under-clouds.jpg > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/cloudfront.jpg > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/clouds-over-ksfo.jpg > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/bushfire.jpg > > > > Here is a zip containing the files. > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ParticleSys.tar.gz > > > > Put it in /Models/ and use the ufo to place them. > > clouds.xml creates a 20x20 km big cloud field. > > > > Sometimes particle systems do not work at once. They cannot (yet) be > > placed as static objects in the scenery. Finally they get clipped by the > > Cloud Layer, so be sure to switch off any clouds. > > > > Perhaps someone with knowlage of the weather system has an idea how to > > use these. > > > > Greetings > > > > Detlef > > > > > > - > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > > ___ > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFG2chRWmK6ng/aMNkRCovFAKCBwWxbMEFKx/7+1R3pGcU3R4WrfgCguTMd > OXHiiart31NHZmbgPabrvEs= > =yc1i > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
Am Samstag, den 01.09.2007, 22:24 +0100 schrieb Vivian Meazza: ... > > I'm with you on this one John, except I can't see how to integrate that > solution, or the particle solution with the weather radar. But perhaps some > real expert can ... > This is exactly the point I like to know. What is the best way to use particle systems in clouds. It is easy to populate a large area with somehow good looking billboard clouds, but they will not be dynamic. The Particle solution can create constantly changing cloud formations, buildup of thunderclouds, thermal caps, even altostratus clouds can be implemented and dynamically placed. I just need to know what actually can be used for Flightgear. If you need a generic cumulus cloud 500x800 m increasing in size dependent on temperature and drifting with the wind, it can be done. But if there is no means for placing it in the FG World it is useless. I'm no programmer, so I can't find out myself where my work on Clouds can be useful. I have to ask on this list if anybody with programming skills can give me a hint. Greetings Detlef > Vivian > > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
Hello, are you sure? Everone knows the system of 3D-clouds of MSFS? Everyone knows the clouds of X-Plane? And of SilverLine? They all are based on the work of Mark Harris! Even the system of today are bnased on it, but got improvements of the shading technic and the build of the clouds. The OSG-Particle-clouds of Detlef could be a beginning for a new cloud system. Windward has a new cloud system, which is used now in Second Life. see here: http://www.windwardmark.net/products.php?page=nimble&sub=technology The interesting thing: it is based on Ogre, a 3D library for OpenGL and/or Direct3D which is under the same licence like FGFS. Just my two cents Greetings HHS --- John Wojnaroski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > I've yet to see a system that IMHO tops what Mark > Harris did a few years > ago part of his doctoral thesis. > > See http://www.lfstech.com/img/sfo_clouds.jpg. > > Someone made a decision a few years ago to replace > rather than improve. > Think we all lost a very promising > implementation, but there might be an opportunity to > recover what was lost. > > Stay tuned... > > John > > >Detlef Faber wrote: > > > > > >>Hello everybody, > >> > >>I've been playing around with OSGs Particle > Systems and found this might > >>be suitable to create some 3d clouds. But see > yourself: > >> > >>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ksfo-under-clouds.jpg > >>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/cloudfront.jpg > >>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/clouds-over-ksfo.jpg > >>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/bushfire.jpg > >> > >>Here is a zip containing the files. > >>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ParticleSys.tar.gz > >> > >>Put it in /Models/ and use the ufo to place them. > >>clouds.xml creates a 20x20 km big cloud field. > >> > >>Sometimes particle systems do not work at once. > They cannot (yet) be > >>placed as static objects in the scenery. Finally > they get clipped by the > >>Cloud Layer, so be sure to switch off any clouds. > >> > >>Perhaps someone with knowlage of the weather > system has an idea how to > >>use these. > >> > >>Greetings > >> > >>Detlef > >> > >> > >>- > >>This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > >>Still grepping through log files to find problems? > Stop. > >>Now Search log events and configuration files > using AJAX and a browser. > >>Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> > http://get.splunk.com/ > >>___ > >>Flightgear-devel mailing list > >>Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? > Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using > AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> > http://get.splunk.com/ > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > __ Yahoo! Clever - Der einfachste Weg, Fragen zu stellen und Wissenswertes mit Anderen zu teilen. www.yahoo.de/clever - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
John Wojnaroski > Behalf Of > Sent: 01 September 2007 21:47 > To: FlightGear developers discussions > Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems > > > I've yet to see a system that IMHO tops what Mark Harris did > a few years > ago part of his doctoral thesis. > > See http://www.lfstech.com/img/sfo_clouds.jpg. > > Someone made a decision a few years ago to replace rather > than improve. > Think we all lost a very promising > implementation, but there might be an opportunity to recover > what was lost. > > Stay tuned... > > John > > >Detlef Faber wrote: > > > > > >>Hello everybody, > >> > >>I've been playing around with OSGs Particle Systems and found this > >>might be suitable to create some 3d clouds. But see yourself: > >> > >>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ksfo-under-clouds.jpg > >>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/cloudfront.jpg > >>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/clouds-over-ksfo.jpg > >>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/bushfire.jpg > >> > >>Here is a zip containing the files. > >>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ParticleSys.tar.gz > >> > >>Put it in /Models/ and use the ufo to place them. > >>clouds.xml creates a 20x20 km big cloud field. > >> > >>Sometimes particle systems do not work at once. They cannot > (yet) be > >>placed as static objects in the scenery. Finally they get > clipped by > >>the Cloud Layer, so be sure to switch off any clouds. > >> > >>Perhaps someone with knowlage of the weather system has an > idea how to > >>use these. > >> > >>Greetings > >> > >>Detlef > >> > >> I'm with you on this one John, except I can't see how to integrate that solution, or the particle solution with the weather radar. But perhaps some real expert can ... Vivian - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
I've yet to see a system that IMHO tops what Mark Harris did a few years ago part of his doctoral thesis. See http://www.lfstech.com/img/sfo_clouds.jpg. Someone made a decision a few years ago to replace rather than improve. Think we all lost a very promising implementation, but there might be an opportunity to recover what was lost. Stay tuned... John >Detlef Faber wrote: > > >>Hello everybody, >> >>I've been playing around with OSGs Particle Systems and found this might >>be suitable to create some 3d clouds. But see yourself: >> >>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ksfo-under-clouds.jpg >>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/cloudfront.jpg >>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/clouds-over-ksfo.jpg >>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/bushfire.jpg >> >>Here is a zip containing the files. >>http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ParticleSys.tar.gz >> >>Put it in /Models/ and use the ufo to place them. >>clouds.xml creates a 20x20 km big cloud field. >> >>Sometimes particle systems do not work at once. They cannot (yet) be >>placed as static objects in the scenery. Finally they get clipped by the >>Cloud Layer, so be sure to switch off any clouds. >> >>Perhaps someone with knowlage of the weather system has an idea how to >>use these. >> >>Greetings >> >>Detlef >> >> >>- >>This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. >>Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. >>Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. >>Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ >>___ >>Flightgear-devel mailing list >>Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel >> >> >> > > > > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 In your picture there are odd sharp "edges" in the clouds, without that fixed it would be unacceptable. See for example right part of clouds in http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/clouds-over-ksfo.jpg /AnMaster Detlef Faber wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I've been playing around with OSGs Particle Systems and found this might > be suitable to create some 3d clouds. But see yourself: > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ksfo-under-clouds.jpg > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/cloudfront.jpg > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/clouds-over-ksfo.jpg > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/bushfire.jpg > > Here is a zip containing the files. > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ParticleSys.tar.gz > > Put it in /Models/ and use the ufo to place them. > clouds.xml creates a 20x20 km big cloud field. > > Sometimes particle systems do not work at once. They cannot (yet) be > placed as static objects in the scenery. Finally they get clipped by the > Cloud Layer, so be sure to switch off any clouds. > > Perhaps someone with knowlage of the weather system has an idea how to > use these. > > Greetings > > Detlef > > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFG2chRWmK6ng/aMNkRCovFAKCBwWxbMEFKx/7+1R3pGcU3R4WrfgCguTMd OXHiiart31NHZmbgPabrvEs= =yc1i -END PGP SIGNATURE- - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
Am Samstag, den 01.09.2007, 13:38 -0500 schrieb Curtis Olson: > On 9/1/07, Detlef Faber wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I've been playing around with OSGs Particle Systems and found > this might > be suitable to create some 3d clouds. But see yourself: > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ksfo-under-clouds.jpg > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/cloudfront.jpg > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/clouds-over-ksfo.jpg > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/bushfire.jpg > > Here is a zip containing the files. > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ParticleSys.tar.gz > > Put it in /Models/ and use the ufo to place them. > clouds.xml creates a 20x20 km big cloud field. > > Sometimes particle systems do not work at once. They cannot > (yet) be > placed as static objects in the scenery. Finally they get > clipped by the > Cloud Layer, so be sure to switch off any clouds. > > Perhaps someone with knowlage of the weather system has an > idea how to > use these. > > I'm only able to look at the still shots this afternoon, but the one > thing I wonder about with a partical system versus an imposter system > is how would the particles look as you move? Do you get a sense of 3d > or will things look a bit strange if the texture is always turning and > facing the camera? Perhaps it will look good, but that is the first > thing I'd look for. The particles are basically round shaped and have little contrast, so the movement isn't really disturbing. Flyinf through the cloud layer looks authentic to me. I am still experimenting to find the best balance between number and size of particles. > But maybe this system would work well for certain types of cloud > layers? From the static screen shots it certainly looks promising. Scattered to broken looks good, but the number of particles drops the framerate. It is possible to create growing cumulus clouds (as indicator of thermals) too. > Ground fires + water bombing would be a cool thing if we could > put the forest fire into the MP system some how so that we could work > cooperatively to put out fires, that would be another nifty > thing. :-) I like to make the fires extingushable too, but before that I need to figure out how to create falling water (with particles of course). > > Regards, > > Curt. > > -- > Curtis Olson - University of Minnesota - FlightGear Project > http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ > http://www.flightgear.org > Unique text: 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
Am Samstag, den 01.09.2007, 19:45 +0100 schrieb AJ MacLeod: > On Saturday 01 September 2007 19:13:51 Detlef Faber wrote: > > > I've been playing around with OSGs Particle Systems and found this might > > be suitable to create some 3d clouds. But see yourself: > > Haven't tried them in FG yet, but I must say the screenshots look really > nice. > Even if they didn't end up being used for the "main clouds" for whatever > reason, I'm sure your work will be very useful for other types of smoke / > vapour (like in the bushfire screenshot). Have you tried using them for > contrails, or engine exhaust smoke? I like to, but I have not yet figured out how to move them relative to the aircraft, so the contrails would get curved. This is definitely on my wishlist. But I will add jet engine flames to the F-86. > > It's always great to get more eye candy in FG :-) > > Cheers, > > AJ > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
On Saturday 01 September 2007 19:13:51 Detlef Faber wrote: > I've been playing around with OSGs Particle Systems and found this might > be suitable to create some 3d clouds. But see yourself: Haven't tried them in FG yet, but I must say the screenshots look really nice. Even if they didn't end up being used for the "main clouds" for whatever reason, I'm sure your work will be very useful for other types of smoke / vapour (like in the bushfire screenshot). Have you tried using them for contrails, or engine exhaust smoke? It's always great to get more eye candy in FG :-) Cheers, AJ - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
On 9/1/07, Detlef Faber wrote: > > Hello everybody, > > I've been playing around with OSGs Particle Systems and found this might > be suitable to create some 3d clouds. But see yourself: > > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ksfo-under-clouds.jpg > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/cloudfront.jpg > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/clouds-over-ksfo.jpg > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/bushfire.jpg > > Here is a zip containing the files. > http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ParticleSys.tar.gz > > Put it in /Models/ and use the ufo to place them. > clouds.xml creates a 20x20 km big cloud field. > > Sometimes particle systems do not work at once. They cannot (yet) be > placed as static objects in the scenery. Finally they get clipped by the > Cloud Layer, so be sure to switch off any clouds. > > Perhaps someone with knowlage of the weather system has an idea how to > use these. I'm only able to look at the still shots this afternoon, but the one thing I wonder about with a partical system versus an imposter system is how would the particles look as you move? Do you get a sense of 3d or will things look a bit strange if the texture is always turning and facing the camera? Perhaps it will look good, but that is the first thing I'd look for. But maybe this system would work well for certain types of cloud layers? From the static screen shots it certainly looks promising. Ground fires + water bombing would be a cool thing if we could put the forest fire into the MP system some how so that we could work cooperatively to put out fires, that would be another nifty thing. :-) Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson - University of Minnesota - FlightGear Project http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ http://www.flightgear.org Unique text: 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Particle Systems
Hello everybody, I've been playing around with OSGs Particle Systems and found this might be suitable to create some 3d clouds. But see yourself: http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ksfo-under-clouds.jpg http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/cloudfront.jpg http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/clouds-over-ksfo.jpg http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/bushfire.jpg Here is a zip containing the files. http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear/ParticleSys.tar.gz Put it in /Models/ and use the ufo to place them. clouds.xml creates a 20x20 km big cloud field. Sometimes particle systems do not work at once. They cannot (yet) be placed as static objects in the scenery. Finally they get clipped by the Cloud Layer, so be sure to switch off any clouds. Perhaps someone with knowlage of the weather system has an idea how to use these. Greetings Detlef - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Particle systems and tile changes
On Tuesday 28 March 2006 16:20, Tiago Gusmão wrote: > Hi > > I'm trying to use particles (there was an older thread), > basically they're working, but they're attached to the > aircraft, which makes them not very useful. > > Here are a few screenshots: > > http://gusmao.home.sapo.pt/p1.jpg > http://gusmao.home.sapo.pt/p2.jpg > http://gusmao.home.sapo.pt/p3.jpg > > if i roll the aircraft, the particles will rotate along, and > so on. > > I mailed Luca Masera (he developed particles in the past) and > he has a different approach, He attaches the particle system > to the scene root and modified the particle system so the > emmiter moves with the aircraft, but not the referential. > > A few screenshots of his work: > > http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/vmeazza/FlightGear/snapshot%20-%201 >.jpg > http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/vmeazza/FlightGear/snapshot%20-%202 >.jpg > > Unfortunately it seems his code is lost. > But it had a problem, when the aircraft switched tiles, the > referential was no longer valid. I'm thinking maybe this > problem could be solved by calculating an equivalent > referential when the tile changes. This is currently the big > problem, and suggestions are welcome. > > I also think it would be nice to have the particle systems > available as animations and that's my current approach but > alternatives are welcome. > > Cheers, > Tiago Hi Tiago, I can't offer any practical help or advice but a working particle system for FG would be great and could be useful in many areas. I hope you stick with it and work something out :) LeeE --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid0944&bid$1720&dat1642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Particle systems and tile changes
Hi I'm trying to use particles (there was an older thread), basically they're working, but they're attached to the aircraft, which makes them not very useful. Here are a few screenshots: http://gusmao.home.sapo.pt/p1.jpg http://gusmao.home.sapo.pt/p2.jpg http://gusmao.home.sapo.pt/p3.jpg if i roll the aircraft, the particles will rotate along, and so on. I mailed Luca Masera (he developed particles in the past) and he has a different approach, He attaches the particle system to the scene root and modified the particle system so the emmiter moves with the aircraft, but not the referential. A few screenshots of his work: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/vmeazza/FlightGear/snapshot%20-%201.jpg http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/vmeazza/FlightGear/snapshot%20-%202.jpg Unfortunately it seems his code is lost. But it had a problem, when the aircraft switched tiles, the referential was no longer valid. I'm thinking maybe this problem could be solved by calculating an equivalent referential when the tile changes. This is currently the big problem, and suggestions are welcome. I also think it would be nice to have the particle systems available as animations and that's my current approach but alternatives are welcome. Cheers, Tiago --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
