Re: gEDA-user: possible collaborators on PCB, gschem [Kicad (or another FOSS tool)]

[Peter TB Brett]

Larry Doolittle 
writes:

> John -
>
> On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 01:07:51PM -0500, John Griessen wrote:
>> Larry Doolittle is going to be there in person.  What can we tell them
>> to get them interested in gEDA more than KiCAD?
>
> Not push and shove, unless someone (not me) goes wild
> programming between now and October.
>
> I have an outline of some ideas I'd like to get across
> in the talk, and I know I need to review other people's
> talks on the subject first.  Maybe someone (John?) would
> like to go over my material ahead of time?  Not that I
> need to "toe the party line" or anything, but it would
> be nice to give a clear message, consistent with the
> larger community.  There's lots of time.  I haven't even
> boarded the plane yet!

I can probably go in person, if that would help.  It's a short hop for
me.

 Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: SCM_ASSERT() with false SCM_ARGx

[Peter TB Brett]

k...@aspodata.se (Karl Hammar) writes:

> From guile documentation:
>
>  -- Macro: void SCM_ASSERT (int TEST, SCM OBJ, unsigned int POSITION,
>   const char *SUBR)
> ...
>  -- Macro: int SCM_ARG1
> ...
>  -- Macro: int SCM_ARG7
>  One of the above values can be used for POSITION to indicate the
>  number of the argument of SUBR which is being checked.
> ...
>
> Some SCM_ASSERT() calls have the wrong SCM_ARGx for its TEST and OBJ.

Hi Karl,

My client can't MIME-decode this message.  Please submit the patch by
Launchpad if possible, or failing that try e-mailing it to me directly.

   Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: dir = g_dir_open() should be freed by g_dir_close(dir)

[Peter TB Brett]

k...@aspodata.se (Karl Hammar) writes:

> [snip]

Thanks Karl.  I've committed both your patches.  In future, please help
me get your patches integrated more quickly & efficiently by following
the instructions in the gEDA `HACKING' file.  If for some reason you
cannot use Launchpad to submit patches, please ensure that your e-mal
has `[PATCH]' at the start of the subject.

Thanks!

   Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: fixed bugs still listed as "hot" in launchpad

[Peter TB Brett]

Kai-Martin Knaak
 writes:

> Hi.
>
> I noticed, that the default list of "hot" bugs in launchpad contains
> bugs with status "fix_commited". While it is nice to see bugs actually
> fixed, this makes the listing less useful. Can this be configured
> differently?

In the Launchpad system, bugs with fixes committed are still open; only
marking bugs as having had a fix released puts them in a closed,
invisible state.  This isn't configurable on a per-project basis.

You can however create a custom search sorted by heat with the "Fix
Committed" status removed. For example:  .

Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Crash in gschem

[Peter TB Brett]

Eivind Kvedalen 
writes:

> Using head (dad94bf12c2ef120fae7a45a0020107815b84ef0), gschem crashes
> when double-clicking on an object.

Fixed.

 Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Crash when rotating whole board

[Peter TB Brett]

Thomas Oldbury 
writes:

> Bump. Not a major problem but would be nice to see fixed. Anyone know what
> could cause this?
>

Just a reminder that if you want to make sure that problems that you've
reported don't get lost in the list archives, it's always a good idea to
file a bug report.  For PCB, that's here:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb/+filebug

Regards,

Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Draft documentation for Scheme API

[Peter TB Brett]

On Friday 24 June 2011 22:44:29 Peter TB Brett wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> I've now written the documentation for the Scheme API so far (in
> TexInfo, simply because that was the quickest way to get it done and
> looking nice).  I've put an HTML version on the web temporarily here:
> 
>   http://peter-b.co.uk/geda/geda-scheme/
> 
> That URL will change soon(ish), and I'll let you know when it does.

Now at http://geda.peter-b.co.uk/geda-scheme/.

  Peter

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gEDA-user: Draft documentation for Scheme API

[Peter TB Brett]

Hi folks,

I've now written the documentation for the Scheme API so far (in
TexInfo, simply because that was the quickest way to get it done and
looking nice).  I've put an HTML version on the web temporarily here:

  http://peter-b.co.uk/geda/geda-scheme/

That URL will change soon(ish), and I'll let you know when it does.
Please let me know if you see any problems, as I hope to merge this
branch in the next week or so.

 Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: web version of gschem/pcb

[Peter TB Brett]

Josh Jordan 
writes:

> It would make development easier if you only support a set of
> standards instead of different build environments that overall run on
> a minority of the systems out there.

Sorry Josh, but that's just not true.  There's only one desktop platform
on which gEDA isn't fully supported, and that's MS Windows (and I for
one am quite happy to fix *reported* bugs and issues on Win32, and have
indeed done so in the last week or so).

If you have experienced actual problems with the build system, please
don't make unsubstantiated and vague complaints.  Please report them
properly, so that I can then fix them. ;-)

   Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: gschem saving symbols

[Peter TB Brett]

Josh Jordan 
writes:

> The script opens a dialog to save the symbol and it also loads the
> symbol on its own page.  I think we could skip the file chooser and
> make this function open the modified symbol in the Hierarchy menu in a
> "Down Symbol Instance" option.  Then you can save-as from there with
> the correct symbol file chooser.  It will take me a little while to
> get up to speed with scheme.

Sure.  This was only ever intended as a quick hack to quite unashamedly
show off my Scheme API work.  If it goes some way towards solving your
problem, that's also good.

Peter ;-)

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Re: gEDA-user: gschem saving symbols

[Peter TB Brett]

Josh Jordan 
writes:

> I could implement a save-symbol-as capability.  Can anyone familiar
> with gschem code outline a 'right' way to this?  Should I add another
> option to Hierarchy "down modified symbol" and change the other to
> "down original symbol"?  Or would it be better to add a 'save symbol
> as' function to the right-click menu that operates on selected
> objects?  Should I try not to change libgeda?

See attached.  To use it, you need to:

1) Build and install my `guile-scheme-api' branch (see
   http://goo.gl/ENfRl for more info).

2) Save the attached `save-selected-symbol.scm' file somewhere sensible.

3) Modify your gschem rc files to load the Scheme file and add the
   `save-selected-symbol' function to the menu/keybindings (this is left
   as an exercise to the reader).

This extension took me about an hour to write and about another 30
minutes to test.

Regards,

Peter

P.S. This branch will be merged into unstable sometime in the next few
weeks, once I've had enough time to write the API docs.

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Remote Sensing Research Group
Surrey Space Centre

;; gEDA - GPL Electronic Design Automation
;; gschem extension for saving symbols
;; Copyright (C) 2011 Peter Brett 
;;
;; This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
;; it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
;; the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
;; (at your option) any later version.
;;
;; This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
;; but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
;; MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
;; GNU General Public License for more details.
;;
;; You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
;; along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
;; Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111 USA
;;

(use-modules (srfi srfi-1))
(use-modules (geda object))
(use-modules (geda page))
(use-modules (geda attrib))
(use-modules (gschem window))
(use-modules (gschem selection))

(define (save-selected-symbol)

  ;; Demote an attribute into a symbol.  This first searches page for
  ;; an unattached attribute with the same name as attrib.  If found,
  ;; the value of the found attribute is replaced by the the value of
  ;; attrib; otherwise, attrib is copied into page.
  (define (demote-attribute! page attrib)
(let* ((name (attrib-name attrib))
   (current (find
 (lambda (x) (and (attribute? x)
  (equal? name (attrib-name x
 (page-contents page

  (if current
  ;; We found a matching attribute, so set the value and
  ;; visibility. This makes sure that attributes that were
  ;; promoted and made invisible are made visible again.
  (begin
(set-attrib-value! current (attrib-value attrib))
(set-text-visibility! current (text-visible? attrib)))
  ;; We didn't find a match, so copy the attribute into the
  ;; page.
  (page-append! page (copy-object attrib)

  ;; This is the main worker function. It creates a new page,
  ;; initially populated by the contents of object, which must be a
  ;; component.  Attributes attached to the object are copied into the
  ;; generated page, overriding existing attributes with that name.
  (define (component->page object)
;; Initial page filename is
;; "@"
(let ((P (make-page (string-join
 (list
  (page-filename (object-page object))
  (component-basename object))
 "@"

  ;; Copy over the contents of the component.
  (for-each
   (lambda (x)
 (if (attrib-attachment x)
 ;; Object is attached as an attribute; skip it, we'll
 ;; deal with it when we copy the object that it's
 ;; attached to.
 #t
 ;; Otherwise, copy the object over, and any attached
 ;; attributes.
 (let ((new-x (copy-object x)))
   (page-append! P new-x)
   (for-each
(lambda (a)
  (let ((new-a (copy-object a)))
(page-append! P new-a)
(attach-attrib! new-x new-a)))
(object-attribs x)

   (component-contents object))

  ;; Demote attributes
  (for-each (lambda (x) (demote-attribute! P x))
(object-attribs object))

  ;; Return the created page
  P))

  ;; Returns the selected component.  Displays a message box if the
  ;; components selected != 1.
  (define (get-selected-component)
(let* ((components (filter! component? (page-selection (active-page
   (n (length components)))
  (cond
   ((= n 0)
(begin
  (gschem-msg "You must 

Re: gEDA-user: PCB: crash on Find

[Peter TB Brett]

> 1) I can't locate the git command to tell you exactly what you have
> checked out.

Use `git describe'.  Ideally, PCB should show the git version in
--version output, like gnetlist does if you're running unstable:

  $ gnetlist --version
  gEDA 1.7.0 (g09c6613)
  Copyright (C) 1998-2011 gEDA developers
  This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it under
  certain conditions. For details, see the file `COPYING', which is
  included in the gEDA distribution.
  There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.

Cheers,

Peter


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Re: gEDA-user: multiple attributes with the same value

[Peter TB Brett]

Kai-Martin Knaak
 writes:

> Do attributes have to be unique within a symbol? Currently,
> gschem/gnetlist is a bit indifferent.

This has been discussed before:

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.cad.geda.user/34557/focus=34677

Upshot: current behaviour is inconsistent.  They don't have to be unique
(apart from where they do), but there's a strong argument that they
should be.

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: import schematics with local footprints

[Peter TB Brett]

Kai-Martin Knaak  writes:

> Ethan Swint wrote:
>
>> I've got the line
>> (component-library-search "/../../footprints")
>> in my gafrc file.  Does that set a priority?
>
> I just double checked. This setting does not seem to affect the 
> choice of footprints in any way.

Correct.

> The term components in the context of gafrc exclusively refers to
> symbols. (Why is the parameter not called "symbol-search-path"?)

I don't know the reason, but let's make one up: because the entries in
the file format are called "component entries" and begin with the letter
"C".  It's not like it can be changed now anyway.

> For gsch2cb the path to the footprint lib is set by the parameter 
> --elements-dir on the command line, or in a project file.
> (Why isn't it "--footprint-dir"?)

Because the PCB file format calls them elements?

Peter

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gEDA-user: Blog post: Porting gEDA to Guile 2.0, and future plans

[Peter TB Brett]

Hi all,

I just published a blog post in which I discuss porting to Guile 2, and ask for 
suggestions about what part of gEDA I should hack on next.  It includes a 
description of the various work-in-progress branches that I've currently got on 
the back burner, which might be of interest.

http://goo.gl/jprq0

Regards,

Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: gEDA with Guile 2.0

[Peter TB Brett]

> Currently, the only known problem is that the `drc2' gnetlist backend
> is broken.

This is now fixed, and there are no known issues with using the gEDA
main development branch with Guile 2.0.

   Peter

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gEDA-user: gEDA with Guile 2.0

[Peter TB Brett]

Hi folks,

I've just checked in some changes that enable gEDA to compile and run
with Guile 2.0.  Please report any issues.  Currently, the only known
problem is that the `drc2' gnetlist backend is broken.

Regards,

  Peter

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gEDA-user: Unsubscribing from the list

[Peter TB Brett]

Hi folks,

It's no longer a worthwhile use of my time to monitor this list, due to the 
excessively low signal-to-noise ratio. I'm therefore unsubscribing from it for 
the time being.  I will continue to monitor the gEDA-bug and gEDA-dev mailing 
lists.

If you wish to get help with using gEDA, please file a question here:

https://answers.launchpad.net/geda

If you think you have found a bug, or wish to submit a patch, please file a 
report here:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/geda

If you wish to contact me directly, my e-mail address is:

peter at peter-b.co.uk.

Bye!

 Peter


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Re: gEDA-user: PCB: simple FreeType fonts implementation -- update?

[Peter TB Brett]

On Friday 13 May 2011 17:34:21 Colin D Bennett wrote:

> > Note that it's been mentioned that PCB's internal "text"
> > representation should switch from ASCII-7 to UTF-8, and I agree.
>
> That should be quite simple and painless, right?  Fully
> backward-compatible.

*cringe*

Those sound like famous last words to me.

There at least four things that make converting to UTF-8 often nightmarish:

1) Code that assumes that strlen returns the number of characters in a string.
2) Code that iterates through characters in a string.
3) Trying to treat filenames as UTF-8 (sometimes they are. Sometimes they're 
not).
4) Multiple Unicode codepoints for the same actual character.

Good luck!

 Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: minipack-result -- gschem

[Peter TB Brett]

On Thursday 12 May 2011 17:06:01 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote:
> [snip]
>
> Now I get a decent gschem GUI :-)

Great!

> [snip]
>
> What would be the HOME in windows. Or alternatively, how would I give
> a full windows path that includes backslashes and the drive letter?

Just like that, I think (you may need to write "\" as "\\", but note that it 
is actually valid to use "/" characters in a Windows path). The build-path 
Scheme function is (intentionally) portable.

> By the way, should the lines of the config files be terminated unix style,
> or DOS style?

Doesn't make any difference either way.

Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: minipack-result -- gschem

[Peter TB Brett]

On Wed, 11 May 2011 19:08:07 +0200, Kai-Martin Knaak
 wrote:
> Peter TB Brett wrote:
> 
>> boot-9.scm is part of Guile (it's the master Scheme script needed to
>> initialise the interpreter). Guile may not be installed correctly.  Try
>> running 'guile' and see if you get to a prompt.
> 
> I get the same result:
> 
> C:\Programme\result\bin>guile.exe
> ERROR: In procedure primitive-load-path:
> ERROR: Unable to find file "ice-9/boot-9.scm" in load path

Okay, the problem is definitely with Guile rather than gschem. Please make
sure that you have its paths set up correctly so that it can find its
Scheme library.

Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: minipack-result -- gschem

[Peter TB Brett]

On Wed, 11 May 2011 18:31:35 +0200, Kai-Martin Knaak
 wrote:
> Kai-Martin Knaak wrote:
> 
>> -minipack-gschem-with-winXP-in-Virtualbox--
>> C:\Programme\result\bin>gschem.exe
>> ERROR: In procedure primitive-load-path:
>> ERROR: Unable to find file "ice-9/boot-9.scm" in load path
> 

boot-9.scm is part of Guile (it's the master Scheme script needed to
initialise the interpreter). Guile may not be installed correctly.  Try
running 'guile' and see if you get to a prompt.

Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: drc2 crash

[Peter TB Brett]

- Original message -
> I am attempting to run the drc2 check with gnetlist.   I have checked
> each   individual schematic separately, and drc2 works fine.   But when I
> tried to run   them altogether I am getting the following crash:

Stack overflows in gnetlist should never occur in 1.7.0 or later.  If you 
encounter a stack overflow in unstable, please file a specific bug report.

In 1.6.x, the stack size increase workaround is required.

 Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: gnetlist (bug?) subcircuit symbol without pinnumbers

[Peter TB Brett]

On Sunday 30 January 2011 14:05:23 Stephan Boettcher wrote:

> $ gnetlist --version
> gnetlist: unrecognized option '--version'

I added the -V,--version option in the 1.7.x branch... sorry. :-/

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Soldering minute smt

[Peter TB Brett]

On Thursday 27 January 2011 15:47:37 Rob Butts wrote:
> Holy miniature footprints Batman!!!
> 
> I'm trying to solder a 10 pin MSOP chip to a home made circuit board.

These are incredibly difficult to solder without solder mask, in my 
experience.  Whenever I've had a design that called for them, I've 
simply opted to contract out the board fab. :-/

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: going multi core

[Peter TB Brett]

- Original message -
> just one such core. Can I expect a spectacular speed-up of gschem 
> and pcb? Or are they throttled by the graphic card anyway?

gschem is a single-threaded application. It runs on one core, no matter how 
many you have.  So no, don't expect a big speed up.

 Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: gsymcheck - show line numbers?

[Peter TB Brett]

On Tuesday 25 January 2011 22:32:21 william estrada wrote:

> Is there a way to make gsymcheck show the line numbers with the
> error messages??

Not at the moment, sorry.

   Peter

[ Technical info: the libgeda symbol file parser does not preserve 
object origin information in the resulting document object model. ]

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Re: gEDA-user: Windows gEDA port

[Peter TB Brett]

On Tuesday 25 January 2011 22:09:10 Chris Malton wrote:
> I too have done some work in so much as getting a full gEDA suite
> working under Cygwin.  MinGW is probably a better option though.
> 

There are two main reasons MinGW is better:

1) Cygwin is slow (not sure why, but on a previous project I 
generated benchmarks to prove it)

2) If you want to run GUI apps from Cygwin you have to be running an X 
server.

 Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Windows gEDA port

[Peter TB Brett]

On Tuesday 25 January 2011 21:52:52 Terrance Hutchinson wrote:
> I would like to help develop the Windows port. Your wiki said that if
> I was interested, I should post to this list.
> 
> I have been working as a computer engineer for a little over 2 years
> at a company specializing storage oriented ASICs (PowerPC as well).
> 
> What are the next steps I should take?

- Check it out from git

- Try to build it (you will almost certainly want to either cross-
compile it on a Linux system, or use MinGW)

- When you find a bug (either compiling or running), file a bug report 
http://bugs.launchpad.net/geda/+filebug

- Wait for a patch (or write one yourself)

- GOTO 10

Peter Clifton has some experience of building Windows binaries for gEDA, 
and may be able to provide more useful information than I can.

Welcome aboard!

Peter ;-)

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gEDA-user: gsch2pcb bug with '-' in filenames fixed

[Peter TB Brett]

Hi folks,

I just committed a fix for the bug in gsch2pcb that breaks things when
footprint names contain '-'.

Please test and let me know if you encounter any problems.

Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: auto-uref increments by twos

[Peter TB Brett]

On Sunday 23 January 2011 05:59:29 jb...@frii.com wrote:
> As Mithat Konar posted on Sept 6, 2010, I too am now having auto-uref
> number my components starting with 2 and incrementing by 2.  I've
> just upgraded to 1.6.1.20100214 and it works beautifully (I had been
> using a significantly older version) but the component numbering
> issue has me a little baffled.  I thought maybe I had two gschemrc's
> that both had an auto-increment command, but if I disable the
> gschemrc I wrote in $HOME/.gEDA it doesn't auto-increment at all,
> just U?.  When I enable my personal gschemrc, I go back to getting
> U2.
> Any ideas?

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, please file a bug report 
so that we don't forget about this!

Cheers,

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: speed of the gschem GUI

[Peter TB Brett]

- Original message -
> A good strategy is always to have a bounding box for each element, and
> to draw only elements when their bounding box overlaps with the visible
> part on screen. So not rely on cairo's clipping.

We already do this.

   Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: git based wiki

[Peter TB Brett]

If we're talking about changing things, here's my totally unreasonable and 
unrealistic documentation system wishlist.

- Markup: should look as much like a "plain" text document as possible, so that 
it's easy to read and edit the documentation without having to continually 
process it to double-check that it's going to come out right.  Nice-looking 
tables are essential.  Bonus points for syntax highlighting mode for Emacs.  An 
example of IMHO *lovely* markup is reStructured Text.

- Conversion: should be able to convert the *same* sources to man pages and 
DocBook XML, and onward to XHTML / HTMLHelp / PDF etc.  This is essential so 
that people who want to contribute to any gEDA documentation only need to learn 
one markup syntax.  An example of IMHO excellent conversion support is 
ASCIIDoc.  The git docs use it especially effectively.

- Version control: reference docs should be maintained in-tree so that each 
branch (e.g. stable and unstable) has its documentation alongside it.  Not so 
fussed about things like "getting started" guides.  It's really good for 
developers to be in the habit of updating docs in the same patch as changing 
behaviour.  Lots of systems can support this.  Would need a "docs coordinator" 
or something to assist people who want to help with documentation work but 
don't have git expertise.

 Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Strange gsch2pcb error

[Peter TB Brett]

On Friday 21 Jan 2011 15:16:45 Peter Clifton wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-01-20 at 22:39 -0500, Ben Gamari wrote:
> > On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 01:07:23 +, Peter Clifton  wrote:
> > > Error sounded like it might be a classic:
> > >
> > > Don't put "-" in footprint names
> >
> > Ahhh. That would explain it. Those packages came from
> > http://www.luciani.org/geda/pcb/pcb-footprint-list.html. Are none of
> > these correctly named?
>
> John doesn't use the M4 library at all, so he sticks to his convention.
> It is really a bug that we don't handle this better.

Is Ben's problem a duplicate of this bug then?

https://bugs.launchpad.net/geda/+bug/698806

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Strange gsch2pcb error

[Peter TB Brett]

On Friday 21 January 2011 00:32:29 Peter TB Brett wrote:
> Hi Ben,
> 
> Works for me.  See attached log.
> 

Now that I've installed PCB properly, I can reproduce the bug.

It's *probably* a gEDA bug, so please file a bug report so that I 
remember to look at it after I've had some sleep.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/geda/+filebug

 Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Strange gsch2pcb error

[Peter TB Brett]

Hi Ben,

Works for me.  See attached log.

 Peter

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-*- mode: compilation; default-directory: 
"/home/peter/Projects/geda/beagle-daq/" -*-
Compilation started at Fri Jan 21 00:30:26

make pcb
gsch2pcb -v project | tee pcb.log
SCM_STRING_CHARS is deprecated.  See the manual for alternatives.
scm_must_malloc is deprecated.  Use scm_gc_malloc and scm_gc_free instead.
Returning non-0 from a smob free function is deprecated.  Use scm_gc_free et al 
instead.
(You just returned non-0 while freeing a object.)
Loading schematic [/home/peter/Projects/geda/beagle-daq/beagle-daq.sch]
SCM_STRING_CHARS is deprecated.  See the manual for alternatives.
scm_must_malloc is deprecated.  Use scm_gc_malloc and scm_gc_free instead.
Returning non-0 from a smob free function is deprecated.  Use scm_gc_free et al 
instead.
(You just returned non-0 while freeing a object.)
Loading schematic [/home/peter/Projects/geda/beagle-daq/beagle-daq.sch]
SCM_STRING_CHARS is deprecated.  See the manual for alternatives.
scm_must_malloc is deprecated.  Use scm_gc_malloc and scm_gc_free instead.
Returning non-0 from a smob free function is deprecated.  Use scm_gc_free et al 
instead.
(You just returned non-0 while freeing a object.)
/usr/bin/m4: cannot open `/home/peter/opt/share/pcb/m4/common.m4': No such file 
or directory
=
gsch2pcb backend configuration:

   
   Variables which may be changed in gafrc:
   
   gsch2pcb:pcb-m4-command:/usr/bin/m4
   gsch2pcb:pcb-m4-dir:/home/peter/opt/share/pcb/m4
   gsch2pcb:pcb-m4-confdir:/home/peter/opt/etc/pcb
   gsch2pcb:pcb-m4-path:   /home/peter/opt/share/pcb/m4  
/home/peter/opt/etc/pcb  $HOME/.pcb  .
   gsch2pcb:m4-command-line:   /usr/bin/m4 -d  -I/home/peter/opt/share/pcb/m4 
-I/home/peter/opt/etc/pcb -I$HOME/.pcb -I. 
/home/peter/opt/share/pcb/m4/common.m4 - >> beagle-daq.new.pcb

   ---
   Variables which may be changed in the project file:
   ---
   gsch2pcb:use-m4:yes

=
Using the m4 processor for pcb footprints
Loading schematic [/home/peter/Projects/geda/beagle-daq/beagle-daq.sch]
GPIO/U1: can't find PCB element for footprint SSOP24 (value=unknown)
So device GPIO/U1 will not be in the layout.
U5: can't find PCB element for footprint SSOP8 (value=unknown)
So device U5 will not be in the layout.
Reading project file: project
schematics "beagle-daq.sch"
output-name "beagle-daq"
Processing 
PCBLIBPATH="/home/peter/opt/share/pcb/pcblib-newlib:/home/peter/opt/share/pcb/newlib"
Adding /home/peter/opt/share/pcb/newlib to the newlib search path
Running command:
gnetlist -g pcbpins -o beagle-daq.cmd beagle-daq.sch

Running command:
gnetlist -g PCB -o beagle-daq.net beagle-daq.sch

Default m4-pcbdir: /home/peter/opt/share/pcb/pcb/m4

gnet-gsch2pcb-tmp.scm override file:
(define m4-pcbdir "/home/peter/opt/share/pcb/pcb/m4")
(define gsch2pcb:use-m4 #t)

Running command:
gnetlist -g gsch2pcb -o beagle-daq.new.pcb -m gnet-gsch2pcb-tmp.scm 
beagle-daq.sch


GPIO/U1: need new file element for footprint  SSOP24 (value=unknown)

psu/U1: need new file element for footprint  SOT23-5 (value=unknown)
Found: packages/m4/SOT23-5
psu/U1: added new file element for footprint SOT23-5 (value=unknown)

U5: need new file element for footprint  SSOP8 (value=unknown)

U5: deleted element TSSOP-65P-640L1-8N (value=)
U4: changed element TSSOP-65P-640L1-20N value:  -> unknown
dac1/U1: changed element TSSOP-65P-640L1-16N value:  -> unknown
U1: changed element TSSOP-65P-640L1-20N value:  -> unknown
psu/U1: deleted element SOT23-95P-280L1-5N__LTC_S5_Package (value=)
GPIO/U1: deleted element TSSOP-65P-640L1-24N (value=)
U6: changed element TSSOP-65P-640L1-20N value:  -> unknown
dac3/U1: changed element TSSOP-65P-640L1-16N value:  -> unknown
U2: changed element TSSOP-65P-640L1-16N value:  -> unknown
dac4/U1: changed element TSSOP-65P-640L1-16N value:  -> unknown
dac2/U1: changed element TSSOP-65P-640L1-16N value:  -> unknown


--
Done processing.  Work performed:
beagle-daq.pcb is backed up as beagle-daq.pcb.bak1.
3 elements deleted from beagle-daq.pcb.
1 file elements and 0 m4 elements added to beagle-daq.new.pcb.
8 elements had a value change in beagle-daq.pcb.
2 elements could not be found.  So beagle-daq.new.pcb is incomplete.


Next steps:
1.  Run pcb on your file beagle-daq.pcb.
2.  From within PCB, select "File -> Load layout data to paste buffer"
and select beagle-daq.new.pcb to load the new footprints into your existing 
layout.
3.  From within PCB, select "File -> Load netlist file" and 

Re: gEDA-user: Strange gsch2pcb error

[Peter TB Brett]

On Thursday 20 January 2011 23:59:24 Ben Gamari wrote:

> [1] gito...@goldnerlab.physics.umass.edu:beagle-daq

What's the password, please?

Thanks,

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: .sch primitive ordering [was: Collaborative Development of Boards]

[Peter TB Brett]

On Tuesday 18 January 2011 01:00:32 John Doty wrote:

> > Example: Create square with solid background. Create smaller circle
> > with hashed background, set to a different colour.  Move circle on
> > top of square. Obviously, if z-order is not preserved through save
> > and load, this will be rendered incorrectly. See attached
> > schematic.
> 
> OK, that's a good point. But there's no easy way to control this in
> gschem. Is it a "feature", or merely accident? Should there be "pull
> forward" and "push backward" commands?

Yes, along with "to back" and "to front" commands.  These are missing 
features, just like path drawing commands.

To me, this is one of those capabilities that's totally utterly useless 
99.9% of the time, but can't-finish-drawing-without-it the other 0.1%.  
If an alternative and obviously-superior algorithm for choosing drawing 
order was suggested, it wouldn't be a big deal to me.

 Peter


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Re: gEDA-user: FYI [Fwd: [Balloon] Balloon 4]

[Peter TB Brett]

On Monday 17 January 2011 18:30:35 Steve Wiseman wrote:

> Or should I fire up gEDA on something smaller and less visible first?
> Anyone want to hold my hand while I do it?

Smaller and less visible, first, I would say, if only so that you can 
get a feel for whether gEDA/pcb lacks features *required* for the B4 
design before committing to it.

I do think it would be really useful to let Peter C sit in with you for 
a few hours just watching you work with Altium, too.  Not only would 
that be valuable from the perspective of improving gEDA, but also from 
the point of view of determining whether gEDA can do what you need.

Cheers,

   Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: multiple attributes

[Peter TB Brett]

On Monday 17 Jan 2011 08:10:24 Stephan Boettcher wrote:
> al davis  writes:
> > How about prefixing simulation attributes with a dot.
>
> No, please,  use a proper namespace prefix, like
>
>   spice- verilog- sim-
>   spice: verilog: sim:
>
> Backend namespaces, use namespaces, with fallbacks into legacy and
> global namespaces.
>
>   spice-value=
>   sim-value=
>   value=

This looks good to me, although I would suggest using a '.' as the separator, 
since I think it makes sense to keep '-' available as a character usable in 
"normal" attribute names.  Also because being able to have a toplevel 
attribute:

  spice-sdb.fix-my-netlist-please=yes

is a required feature. :-P

 Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: .sch primitive ordering [was: Collaborative Development of Boards]

[Peter TB Brett]

On Monday 17 Jan 2011 12:17:50 Karl Hammar wrote:
> Tibor:
> ...
>
> > Maybe I oversimplify it, but I still suggesting having UUIDs. Long
> > random numbers, like 256 bits, stored in hex. Whenever a new object
> > appears, generate a new one. Whenever an object is transformed, keep the
> > UUID. When saving, order objects numerically by UUID (within each level,
> > if the save file is not flat).
>
> ...
>
> Thoose UUID might not be what a person that edit thoose files by hand
> wants.

Yes, it's often useful that the file-format makes it trivial to copy and paste 
bits of schematic around.  I like it.

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: .sch primitive ordering [was: Collaborative Development of Boards]

[Peter TB Brett]

On Monday 17 Jan 2011 11:07:16 John Doty wrote:

> >> At each level in this tree the order of the branches does not matter.
> >
> > No. It does matter; the ordering indicates the draw order of primitives
> > in any viewer or graphics exporter.  Arguably, it shouldn't, but if not,
> > the file format needs to be amended to provide this information in
> > another way.
>
> But the draw order doesn't matter unless you're using an old-fashioned
> mechanical plotter. In any case, in gschem, merely cutting something and
> pasting it back in the same place changes the order, but this is rarely
> significant.

For someone who is very defensive of features that you see as important, you 
are very quick to propose that those you don't care about are removed, aren't 
you?

Example: Create square with solid background. Create smaller circle with 
hashed background, set to a different colour.  Move circle on top of square. 
Obviously, if z-order is not preserved through save and load, this will be 
rendered incorrectly. See attached schematic.

   Peter

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Remote Sensing Research Group
Surrey Space Centre

v 20110116 2
C 4 4 0 0 0 title-B.sym
B 44500 48500 1000 1000 3 0 0 0 -1 -1 1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1
V 45000 49000 500 8 0 0 0 -1 -1 2 1 0 200 90 200


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Re: gEDA-user: .sch primitive ordering [was: Collaborative Development of Boards]

[Peter TB Brett]

On Monday 17 Jan 2011 08:58:18 John Doty wrote:
> On Jan 17, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> > Due to the way the gschem editing model works, and particularly the undo
> > system, stuff tends to get shifted to the end of the file when edited.
> > This is something that I've made a few improvements to in the past, but
> > fundamentally the problem hasn't gone away.
> >
> > This is actually an extremely difficult problem to solve.  Saving a file
> > could be considered as mapping a three-dimensional space (x position, y
> > position, z-index) onto a one-dimensional space (file position).  At the
> > moment, the file position is mapped 1:1 to z-index, i.e. last-on-top.
> > Other possibilities (assuming that an alternative way of indicating z-
> > ordering can be found) include defining a Hilbert-Peano curve on the x-y
> > schematic plane and mapping position along that curve to file position.
> >
> > There is no easy fix here.
>
> When it comes to gschem files, I believe there is a potentially useful
> compromise. The .sch file structure describes a tree.

No. The very shallow, wide nature of a .sch file's (at most, if symbols are 
embedded) two level structure means that it's much more meaningful to consider 
it as a list.

> At each level in this tree the order of the branches does not matter.

No. It does matter; the ordering indicates the draw order of primitives in any 
viewer or graphics exporter.  Arguably, it shouldn't, but if not, the file 
format needs to be amended to provide this information in another way.

> So, a canonical ordering of a .sch file just requires some sorting criterion.

Correct.  I suggested one in my previous e-mail.

 Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: gschem: How to set the margin for printing?

[Peter TB Brett]

On Monday 17 January 2011 02:07:32 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote:
> Hi.
> The print dialog of gschem offers "Extents with margins" by default.
> This margin is larger than necessary or my printer. But no margin is
> too little. Is there a way to set the size of the margin? I couldn't
> find "margin" in system-gschemrc.

Unfortunately, your current best bet is to export with no margins and 
then use a tool which can talk CUPS to shrink to the correct printer 
extents.

As usual, I have a remarkable branch which makes gschem do this 
automagically, but it's nowhere near a usable state yet (i.e. there are 
many regressions and you *will* lose work if you use it).

   Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Collaborative Development of Boards

[Peter TB Brett]

On Monday 17 January 2011 08:01:53 ge...@igor2.repo.hu wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 08:22:02AM +0100, Stephan Boettcher wrote:
> > ge...@igor2.repo.hu writes:
> > > If you edit one object, that won't ever move other objects around
> > > by side effect. VCS systems I know depend on this feature. I
> > > think PCB already provides this feature, keeping order of
> > > objects,
> > 
> > Not really. When you edit a line, it somehow gets thrown into an
> > entirely different slot in the list.  Like if there is a vector of
> > allocated slots, some marked unused, and when something is changed,
> > it is thrown into the first unused slot.  Probably some feature of
> > some glib(?) container class?  It's not too bad for vcs diffs, but
> > could be a little better.  Not worth the trouble to fix this, I
> > guess.
> 
> Hmm, maybe I mix it with something then. I recall some efforts, maybe
> by Peter to get this fixed in PCB or in gschem. Or else my memory
> just fails.
> 

Due to the way the gschem editing model works, and particularly the undo 
system, stuff tends to get shifted to the end of the file when edited.  
This is something that I've made a few improvements to in the past, but 
fundamentally the problem hasn't gone away.

This is actually an extremely difficult problem to solve.  Saving a file 
could be considered as mapping a three-dimensional space (x position, y 
position, z-index) onto a one-dimensional space (file position).  At the 
moment, the file position is mapped 1:1 to z-index, i.e. last-on-top.  
Other possibilities (assuming that an alternative way of indicating z-
ordering can be found) include defining a Hilbert-Peano curve on the x-y 
schematic plane and mapping position along that curve to file position.

There is no easy fix here.

   Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Rant about "Make Inv Text Vis"

[Peter TB Brett]

On Sunday 16 January 2011 17:22:06 Peter Clifton wrote:
> On Sun, 2011-01-16 at 08:03 -0800, Colin D Bennett wrote:
> > On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 08:47:19 +
> > 
> > Peter Clifton  wrote:
> > > Are there any use-cases for invisible text which is not an
> > > attribute? Since it might exist already though - we MAY have to
> > > add an: "Invisble [x]" option to the text edit dialogue box.
> > 
> > I often include lines or even paragraphs of invisible text in my
> > custom symbols to thoroughly document specific details, design
> > rationale, etc.
> 
> Through what mechanism do you make that text invisible? As an
> attribute?

Select the text and press "t t".

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Rant about "Make Inv Text Vis"

[Peter TB Brett]

> > Consider it napalmed.
> 
> Napalmed ain't enough - I want that option *nuked* (from orbit yet).    

It's the only way to be sure.

                   Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Bug in [ctrl-a]

[Peter TB Brett]

- Original message -
> Hi.
> In git head, there is a new feature to select all with [ctrl-a].
> Under specific circumstances, visible attributes move at double pace 
> compared to the rest of the symbol. To reproduce:

That sounds like a bug in moving to me.   Did you file  bug report?

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Rant about "Make Inv Text Vis"

[Peter TB Brett]

- Original message -
> What is the point of the command Make Inv Text Vis in gschem, other than 
> aggravating me.

Good question. I'm not aware of a use-case for it either.  At the very least, 
it should be undo-able.  Please file a bug report.

   Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Bugs, warts and feature requests (5)

[Peter TB Brett]

On Wednesday 12 January 2011 02:46:40 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote:

> >> • gsch2pcb wart: The net of input/output symbols is evaluated from its
> >> refdes. Consequently, the restrictions to refdeses apply: No
> >> uncapitalized suffix, no hyphen, etc. Proposal: evaluate the net from
> >> dedicated attributes. E.g. "in-net=", "out-net="
> > 
> > gnetlist missing feature, nothing to do with gsch2pcb.
> 
> Well, from a user point of view, the separation is blurry.

How can we make it less blurry?

> >> • gschem feature request: Sort attributes in multiple attributes dialog.
> >> The most frequent ones should be on top.
> > 
> > Most frequent determined how?
> 
> How about: Like the drop-down list of default attributes the add
> Attribute line presents.
>   netname
>   footprint
>   value
>   refdes
>   source
>   ...
> 
> I guess, this order was determined by intuition of a developer
> long time ago. Suggestion: take this list as a default order for
> the list of attributes. Make this default configurable in gschemrc.
> Ouups, this is another feature request ;^)

It's configurable in system-gschemrc.

Sorting request doesn't seem unreasonable.

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Bugs, warts and feature requests (5)

[Peter TB Brett]

On Wednesday 12 January 2011 00:03:50 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote:
> • geda documentation: There is no wiki page for gsch2pcb. Best bet is
> http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:faq-gsch2pcb

I just added `man gsch2pcb', by the way.  But not to the wiki.  BTW, copying 
the manpages into the wiki is a bad thing.  Don't do it, please.

> • gsch2pcb wart: The net of input/output symbols is evaluated from its
> refdes. Consequently, the restrictions to refdeses apply: No uncapitalized
> suffix, no hyphen, etc. Proposal: evaluate the net from dedicated
> attributes. E.g. "in-net=", "out-net="

gnetlist missing feature, nothing to do with gsch2pcb.

> • gschem feature request: Sort attributes in multiple attributes dialog.
> The most frequent ones should be on top.

Most frequent determined how?

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage

[Peter TB Brett]

On Sunday 09 January 2011 19:07:37 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote:
> Peter Clifton wrote:
> >> For full triage you have to be a member of the bug team (geda-bugs, or
> >> pcb-bugs). Else, you get no edit buttons next to the importance button.
> >> I'd expect, that this is configurable and the status can also be made
> >> inaccessible to simple users (Peter C., is this so?)
> > 
> > No, you need to be a bug contact or owner of the project, and that is
> > not configurable.
> 
> Hmm, I also meant the opposite: Is is it possible to make the status
> inaccessible to users not in a special group? Just in case some status
> edit war is creeping up...

If a status edit war occurs, bug status to be set to "Opinion"? ;-)

 Peter


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Re: gEDA-user: Accessing the repository using anonymous CVS

[Peter TB Brett]

On Sunday 09 January 2011 17:51:48 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote:
> There used to be a CVS mirror of the git repo. The wiki still points
> to it but notes, it is currently offline:
> http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:scm?&#committing_patches_from_other_contribu
> tors
> 
> Is this access supposed to be working anytime soon?

As I understand it, the CVS mirror has now been permanently shut down.

Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Browsing the source code...

[Peter TB Brett]

- Original message -
> I just noticed on the gEDA Launchpad page
> (https://code.launchpad.net/geda) that it says:
> 
> You can browse the source code for the development focus branch or get
> a copy of the branch using the command:
>       bzr branch lp:geda
> 
> Shouldn't that be
>     git clone git://git.gpleda.org/gaf.git

Yes, it should.  For some reson that I can't remember off the top of my head, 
we've got a bzr branch on Launchpad (Launchpad only supports bzr) which tracks 
the master branch of gaf.git.  Unfortunately we don't have any control over the 
text which appears on that page. :-(

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage

[Peter TB Brett]

On Saturday 08 January 2011 23:31:43 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote:
> Peter TB Brett wrote:
> >> Nice.
> >> Would you object against a merge with "Howto report bugs"?
> > 
> > I don't think that one is really needed -- reporting bugs and triaging
> > bugs are different jobs.
> 
> Sure, but I'd like to:
> 
> 1) not spread bug reporting advice all over the site like we currently do.
> 
> 2) suggest, that someone, who reports a bug may also confirm others.
> I imagine, this works better, if the triage
> 
> 3) have a single page for all bug related issues. This page can be
> linked to from many other pages. (And potentially from the manuals).

Well, it's up to you.

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage

[Peter TB Brett]

On Saturday 08 January 2011 22:44:48 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote:
> Gareth Edwards wrote:
> > http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:bug_triage_guide
> 
> Nice.
> Would you object against a merge with "Howto report bugs"?

I don't think that one is really needed -- reporting bugs and triaging bugs 
are different jobs.  For instance, a large part of the triage guide is about 
what to set importances and statuses to in different situations, whereas for a 
reporter, their bug should always start out as "New" and "Undecided".

Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage

[Peter TB Brett]

On Saturday 08 January 2011 21:26:59 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote:
> Gareth Edwards wrote:
> > Think it's worthwhile me trying to capture the process on the wiki
> > somewhere
> 
> IMHO, bug reporting is worth a dedicated page in the wiki.
> I just started one at:
> http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:howto_report_bugs?&#bug_trackers
> 
> Feel free to add a section on bug triage and etiquette.
> 
> BTW, there about 100 links to source forge in the wiki
>  http://geda.seul.org/wiki/?do=search&id=sourceforge
> Many of them are obsolete since pcb and now also the bug trackers
> have moved somewhere else. I'll try to catch them...

Note that http://bugs.launchpad.net/geda/+bug/sf- links to the bug 
which had ID  on Sourceforge.  This is useful. ;-)

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage

[Peter TB Brett]

On Saturday 08 January 2011 19:33:40 Gareth Edwards wrote:
> On 8 January 2011 19:28, Peter Clifton  wrote:
> > On Sat, 2011-01-08 at 19:16 +, Gareth Edwards wrote:
> >> Does it make sense to move (other peoples) Wishlist items to
> >> Confirmed, or just leave them as New?  Just thinking these might be a
> >> lot more subjective than bug reports.
> > 
> > I'd suggest that anyone who also wishes the same should tick the "bug
> > affects me" option, so we get an idea of the demand. That feature was
> > designed to avoid lots of "ME TOO", "+1" comments on bugs.
> > 
> > Perhaps leave the status update for developers who are sufficiently
> > familiar with the design issues to decide if the wishlist item is a
> > "Confirmed", "WontFix" or "Opinion".
> 
> Yes, this sound like a good process.
> 
> Think it's worthwhile me trying to capture the process on the wiki
> somewhere or is it transient until we complete the first pass of the
> migration? It's spread over 3 or 4 email threads now and my email
> filing sucks. :)
> 

Yes, it is definitely worthwhile to try and capture the process on the wiki 
somewhere!  Very much so!  Please do!

  Peter :-)

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Re: gEDA-user: Launchpad: pcb next-bug-release

[Peter TB Brett]

On Saturday 08 January 2011 10:16:48 Bert Timmerman wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> On https://launchpad.net/pcb/+milestone/next-bug-release
> 
> I see some bugs marked with the status "fix-released".
> 
> IMO these should aleady be included in the latest release of pcb (20100929)
> and not in the list for the pending bug release, or should have the status
> "fix commited".
> 
> Could anyone please give some clarification ?
> 
> Let us avoid unnecessary rework on the status of bugs before these bugs
> drop out of sight.

Yes, as I understand it they should have the status "fix committed" if the 
fixes haven't yet appeared in a release.

Cheers,

Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: origin/master ... origin/stable-1.6 ?

[Peter TB Brett]

On Saturday 08 January 2011 02:02:38 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote:
> Hi Peter B, Peter C.
> 
> Just noted that "git fetch" of git://git.gpleda.org/gaf reports
> two branches. origin/master and origin/stable-1.6 . What is the
> significance of these? Where should I look for the brave new features
> that get pushed in the aftermath of the move from sourceforge to
> launchpad?
> 

I've pushed some patches to the 1.6.x branch ('stable-1.6') in preparation for 
1.6.2.  There are no new features or bugfixes in the 1.6.x branch, only 
backports of bugfixes already present in the unstable ('master') branch.

Sorry to disappoint,

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage

[Peter TB Brett]

On Friday 07 January 2011 20:55:31 Colin D Bennett wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Jan 2011 10:22:53 +
> 
> Peter TB Brett  wrote:
> > Please use "Fix released" only if the fix has been in a released
> > version (the latest release was 1.6.1).  Otherwise, use "Fix
> > committed".
> 
> Is there any special tag or status indicator I can use for a bug which
> has a working bugfix patch attached?  It seems like bugs with a
> confirmed fix should be given high priority to get the fix committed to
> HEAD.
> 
> I am speaking presently about
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb/+bug/699498
> which has a working patch that I have been using myself for some time.
> 

Well, the usual thing to do in that case is to complain on the mailing list, 
in which case a bug administrator (such as myself) may well go and find 
someone to nag about it.

Cheers,

Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage

[Peter TB Brett]

On Friday 07 January 2011 10:14:19 Peter Clifton wrote:
> Grab "git HEAD" of whichever package the bug is in (if you don't have it
> already), and try to confirm whether the bug is still present or not.
> 
> Bug present: New -> Confirmed
> Bug absent: Make a comment - set bug to "Invalid",
> "Fix released", or
> "Incomplete"...
> depending on how confident you are that the bug was bogus,
> fixed by some commit since the bug reported, or "Incomplete"
> if you ask the reporter a question which requires answering.
> 

Please use "Fix released" only if the fix has been in a released version (the 
latest release was 1.6.1).  Otherwise, use "Fix committed".

Thanks for any help you can give me in ploughing through the backlog!

  Peter

P.S. It is not good form to set your own bug reports to "Confirmed". :-P


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Re: gEDA-user: Launchpad up & running [was: SourceForge bug trackers frozen]

[Peter TB Brett]

On Thursday 06 January 2011 16:38:59 Peter TB Brett wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> In case you're wondering where the gEDA/gaf bug trackers at SourceForge.net
> have disappeared to, they've been shut down so that no new changes occur
> while Peter C gets the bugs imported to their new home at Launchpad.net. 
> The conversion has now been completed, and we're just waiting for
> Launchpad admins to run the import process:
> 
>   https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/140410
> 

Import done.  The new place to find gEDA bugs is:

http://bugs.launchpad.net/geda

Note that it's possible to associate a Launchpad account with all your 
imported bugs by merging your account with the automatically created virtual 
account from Sourceforge.  You can get access to this by clicking on your name 
in a bug report (Kai-Martin, I'm *certain* you'll want to make use of this 
feature. ;-) )

 Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Official gEDA/gaf documentation -- is the wiki working?

[Peter TB Brett]

On Friday 07 January 2011 00:02:21 Kai-Martin wrote:

> IMHO, reference manuals should be written in a format that the most
> prolific developers are comfortable with. They are the ones, who are
> responsible for this part of the documentation.

Sure.  The specific documentation I was thinking should be maintained wholly 
in the git repository are things like the file format specification, the 
attribute specification, and the reference manual for gEDA configuration 
files.  That sort of thing.

   Peter

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gEDA-user: SourceForge bug trackers frozen

[Peter TB Brett]

Hi folks,

In case you're wondering where the gEDA/gaf bug trackers at SourceForge.net 
have disappeared to, they've been shut down so that no new changes occur while 
Peter C gets the bugs imported to their new home at Launchpad.net.  The 
conversion has now been completed, and we're just waiting for Launchpad admins 
to run the import process:

  https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/140410

N.b. the PCB bug tracker is unaffected.

Peter

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gEDA-user: Conflicting attributes (was: [PATCH 1/2] gnetlist: Add access to all attributes ...)

[Peter TB Brett]

On Wednesday 05 January 2011 19:04:37 John Doty wrote:
> On Jan 5, 2011, at 11:49 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 05 January 2011 18:38:04 John Doty wrote:
> >> They're not especially bad. In that project "make clean; make" generates
> >> 2074 lines of chatter, only about 1/3 of them from gschem and gnetlist.
> >> The worst offender is pdflatex.
> >> 
> >> You can see how a warning could easily be lost.
> > 
> > That doesn't make it okay to deliberately break designs which currently
> > work, even if you don't think they deserve to. ;-)
> 
> Is there any evidence that there are any? In any case, in other areas of
> computing it is considered OK for behavior to change between versions of a
> tool for cases when the input is ambiguous. It's not like changing the
> default attribute promotion policy: that wasn't ambiguous.

No, but there wasn't any evidence that that would actually break users either.

Now, I would *very much* like to see this ambiguosity cleared up, but as part 
of a holistic strategy to make attributes clearer and easier to process in an 
automated and deterministic manner.

1) Decide if we wish to continue to allow multiple values for the same 
attribute in the same context (c.f. 'net=' vs 'refdes=" behaviour in previous 
discussion), and document this.

2) Decide which (if any) attributes should be "reserved" for the 
implementation, i.e. have their semantics strictly prescribed rather than 
being "free-form", and document this.  For example, we may wish to prescribe 
the merging behaviour of 'refdes=', but also add an 'id=' attribute that if 
present on a symbol *must* be unique within design.

3) Determine which (if any) widely-used attributes can no longer work in the 
same way as a result of the previous decisions, fully document the changes, 
and create an automated tool to find problems in existing designs and 
automatically update them.

If we are *not* going to be backwards compatible, we should actually try and 
do some *design* and come up with an approach that's both well-documented and 
reasonably future-proof.

 Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: [PATCH 1/2] gnetlist: Add access to all attributes from components with multiple symbol instances.

[Peter TB Brett]

On Wednesday 05 January 2011 18:38:04 John Doty wrote:
> 
> They're not especially bad. In that project "make clean; make" generates
> 2074 lines of chatter, only about 1/3 of them from gschem and gnetlist.
> The worst offender is pdflatex.
> 
> You can see how a warning could easily be lost.
> 

That doesn't make it okay to deliberately break designs which currently work, 
even if you don't think they deserve to. ;-)

How about patching `gnetlist' to make less noise?

Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: [PATCH 1/2] gnetlist: Add access to all attributes from components with multiple symbol instances.

[Peter TB Brett]

On Wednesday 05 January 2011 17:49:50 John Doty wrote:

> WARNING: Trying to rename something twice:
>   X2/GND and X2/GND
> are both a src and dest name
> This warning is okay if you have multiple levels of hierarchy!

I've never known this warning to actually indicate a problem with a design. 
:-(

Both gnetlist and gschem generate a ridiculous quantity of useless chatter, 
unfortunately.

Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: [PATCH 1/2] gnetlist: Add access to all attributes from components with multiple symbol instances.

[Peter TB Brett]

On Wednesday 05 January 2011 16:32:48 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote:
> Peter TB Brett wrote:
> > Well, no, because you will now get a BIG FAT WARNING every time you run
> > gnetlist.
> 
> You mean, I will receive this big fat warning for every symbol I attach
> more than one comment to?

Why not try it and find out?

 Peter

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gEDA-user: [PATCH] gsch2pcb: Add `outline' layer to default PCB template.

[Peter TB Brett]

Hi Kai-Martin,

Could you please test this patch and see if it does what you had in
mind?

Thanks,

   Peter


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From 69c00410599bbd1580e2c353553c4d63a99f0f3d Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Peter TB Brett 
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 10:29:39 +
Subject: [PATCH] gsch2pcb: Add `outline' layer to default PCB template.

Adds the `outline' (board physical outline) layer to the default PCB
template used by `gsch2pcb' when initially creating a .pcb file for a
design.  Requested by Kai Martin Knaak .
---
 gnetlist/scheme/gnet-gsch2pcb.scm.in |7 ---
 1 files changed, 4 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)

diff --git a/gnetlist/scheme/gnet-gsch2pcb.scm.in b/gnetlist/scheme/gnet-gsch2pcb.scm.in
index afe0251..0442ac4 100644
--- a/gnetlist/scheme/gnet-gsch2pcb.scm.in
+++ b/gnetlist/scheme/gnet-gsch2pcb.scm.in
@@ -39,7 +39,7 @@
 (display "Thermal[0.50]\n" port)
 (display "DRC[1000 1000 1000 1000 1500 1000]\n" port)
 (display "Flags(\"nameonpcb,uniquename,clearnew,snappin\")\n" port)
-(display "Groups(\"1,c:2,s:3:4:5:6:7:8\")\n" port)
+(display "Groups(\"1,c:2,s:3:4:5:6:7:8:9\")\n" port)
 (display "Styles[\"Signal,1000,3600,2000,1000:" port)
 (display "Power,2500,6000,3500,1000:" port)
 (display "Fat,4000,6000,3500,1000:" port)
@@ -58,8 +58,9 @@
 (display "Layer(6 \"signal1\")\n(\n)\n" port)
 (display "Layer(7 \"signal2\")\n(\n)\n" port)
 (display "Layer(8 \"signal3\")\n(\n)\n" port)
-(display "Layer(9 \"silk\")\n(\n)\n" port)
-(display "Layer(10 \"silk\")\n(\n)" port)
+(display "Layer(9 \"outline\")\n(\n)\n" port)
+(display "Layer(10 \"silk\")\n(\n)\n" port)
+(display "Layer(11 \"silk\")\n(\n)" port)
 (newline port)))
 
 ;;
-- 
1.7.0.1.138.ga75b



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Re: gEDA-user: gsch2pcb (was: Wiki cleanup?)

[Peter TB Brett]

> By the way: If gsch2pcb were to include the outline layer in the 
> initial layer stack, this source of newbie confusion would be defused.

If you file a feature request to jog my memory, I can probably implement that 
tomorrow, I mean, later today.  Even better, you could submit a patch... should 
be a one-liner I think! 

I've been thinking about the "'-' in footprint names sometimes breaks gsch2pcb" 
bug, but I haven't thought of an elegant way to fix it yet.

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: multiple attributes (was: [Patches] GTK Recent-file-manager)

[Peter TB Brett]

On Wednesday 05 January 2011 00:42:07 John Doty wrote:
> On Jan 4, 2011, at 5:22 PM, Matthew Wilkins wrote:
> > What are typical use cases for having multiple same-named attributes in a
> > symbol?
> 
> A slotted symbol generally needs multiple slotdef attributes.
> 
> A hierarchical symbol will have multiple source attributes if its
> underlying schematic has multiple pages.
> 
> And nobody knows what other use cases there are, or may be in the future.
> You should make as few assumptions about how people will use attributes as
> practical.

One of the problems we have at the moment is that sometimes attributes in the 
schematic override attributes in the symbol, and sometimes they don't.

Example 1.  Suppose I have a "refdes=A?" attribute in a symbol. I instantiate 
the symbol in a schematic, and attach a "refdes=A1" attribute to the 
instantiated symbol.  gnetlist (etc) will use "refdes=A1".  This is overriding 
behaviour.

Example 2.  Suppose I have a "net=Vcc:1" attribute in a symbol. I instantiate 
the symbol in a schematic, and attach a "net=Vdd:1" attribute to the 
instantiated symbol.  gnetlist will short Vcc to Vdd and connect pin 1 to the 
shorted net.  This is aggregation behaviour.

The problem with this is inconsistency.  IMHO it would be better to have 
overriding behaviour *only*, because in the longer term being able to reliably 
override attributes would particularly be helpful in doing things like 
hierarchical back-annotation and parameterised subcircuits (the latter would 
be awesome for ASIC design applications, for instance).  As far as I can tell, 
everything that can be achieved with aggregation behaviour can be achieved 
with overriding behaviour, but not the other way around.

Regards,

Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Does Google do not like us any more?

[Peter TB Brett]

On Tuesday 04 January 2011 22:55:39 Stefan Salewski wrote:
> From time to time I have problems finding my own geda postings again.
> 
> Just tried a google search for
> 
> site:archives.seul.org Boettcher huge mess
> 
> Gives no results for me -- should give
> 
> http://archives.seul.org/geda/user/Dec-2010/msg00491.html
> 
> Is there a better way for searching?

Have you tried GMANE?

   Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Symbol question – suggestions?

[Peter TB Brett]

On Tuesday 04 January 2011 20:42:28 Stephan Boettcher wrote:
> "Johnny Rosenberg"  writes:
> > I created this symbol, it's the 74-series version of the 4066 (4
> > bilateral switches), called 744066 (as in 74LV4066, for example):
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The documentation of the symbol can be found at
> > http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn74lv4066a.pdf
> > I am not sure I got the pin numbers right (or how to use pinseq vs
> > pinnumber).
> 
> The slot attribute does not get promoted.  Why can't I promote an
> attribute after placement from the (ee) Element attribute edit window?
> 

I just tried this.  I placed a symbol, hit , right-clicked on the 
inherited attribute that I wanted to promote, and selected "Promote".  Does 
this not work for you?

Peter


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Re: gEDA-user: Shutting down SourceForge trackers for migration to Launchpad

[Peter TB Brett]

On Tuesday 04 January 2011 18:07:21 Peter Clifton wrote:

> I have discussed the plans for migration quite openly, and have had
> input and/or feedback from most developers on the two projects. If
> moving over at some point during the next couple of days causes anyone a
> problem, please let me know as soon as possible.

Hi Peter,

This plan seems good.  Please make sure you notify just before you take the 
SF.net trackers read-only!

Thanks,

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: [PATCH 1/2] gnetlist: Add access to all attributes from components with multiple symbol instances.

[Peter TB Brett]

On Tuesday 04 January 2011 17:45:29 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote:
> Patrick Bernaud wrote:
> > This commit introduces 'gnetlist:get-all-package-attributes' to
> > retrieve every first attribute value for package consisting of
> > multiple symbol instances.
> 
> So this resolves one of the more annoying warts with multiple symbol
> components. :-)
> 
> However, a less severe wart remains: In case of multiple values for the
> same attribute, the output still depends on the order the symbols were
> added to the schematics. This may lead to unexpected, seemingly
> unreproducible results.

Well, no, because you will now get a BIG FAT WARNING every time you run 
gnetlist.

   Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: DRC Problem

[Peter TB Brett]

On Tuesday 04 January 2011 16:24:26 Dan Quist wrote:
> Hello, I have a problem with the DRC check.  In the included file, is
> Drc_maker.sh which when run will result in a stack overflow:
> 

Hi Dan,

This is a known issue with the 1.6.x versions of the DRC2 backend.  It is 
fixed in the git version of gEDA, which also has a number of other 
enhancements.

Alternatively, as a workaround you can expand the Guile stack. See:

http://www.geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:faq-
gnetlist#some_gnetlist_backends_overflow_the_stack_how_do_i_solve_this

Oh dear, that page is a bit out of date... :-(

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: gschem usability: expand the component tree after filtering

[Peter TB Brett]

On Tuesday 04 January 2011 08:59:26 Krzysztof Kościuszkiewicz wrote:
> 2011/1/4 kai-martin knaak :
> > +1
> > Every click that can be avoided for common tasks adds to the
> > productivity. I hope, this patch will be accepted.
> 
> Thanks to cooperation with Peter B it is already accepted.

Yes, I am being very proactive at the moment about giving prompt & detailed 
feedback to patch submitters, and I am working with them to get patches ready 
quickly. :-)

And Krzysztof's patch was obviously a good idea anyway.  :-)

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Re: gEDA-user: [PATCH 1/3] Quick testcase for patch #3071482.

[Peter TB Brett]

On Sunday 02 January 2011 17:19:23 Patrick Bernaud wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>  2 files changed, 169 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-)
>  create mode 100644 tests/testcase.sch
>  create mode 100644 tests/testcase.scm
> 
> diff --git a/tests/testcase.sch b/tests/testcase.sch
>
> [snip]
>

Hi Patrick,

Where exactly is this patch supposed to be applied...?  Or is it purely for 
informational purposes?

Thanks,

   Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: [Patches] GTK Recent-file-manager

[Peter TB Brett]

> Can you set up a git repository of pcb with your patches applied?
> (The way Peter Clifton makes his GL-enabled version of pcb available to 
> potential testers)

This patch is on my list of things to look at when I get home in a couple of 
hours -- it seems like a good idea in principle, so hopefully we can get it 
merged sooner rather than later.

FWIW I think the existing code has been broken for a while, unfortunately, so 
to have someone looking at this is quite welcome!

 Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…

[Peter TB Brett]

On Friday 24 December 2010 10:27:20 Johnny Rosenberg wrote:
> Den 2010-12-24 00:53:38 skrev Stefan Salewski :
> > On Fri, 2010-12-24 at 00:38 +0100, Stefan Salewski wrote:
> >> On Fri, 2010-12-24 at 00:31 +0100, Johnny Rosenberg wrote:
> >> > Value: → Enter ”390k”.
> >> > 
> >> > Does it look nice? It certainly does not on my system.
> >> > 
> >> > Am I doing this right at all?
> > 
> > Ah, now I understand you problem:
> > 
> > You want to place the text inside the box of the (german) rectangular
> > resister box.
> 
> Is it German? I didn't know that. That's the symbol I've used all my life
> (I'm Swedish). Thought it was at least European standard (IEC) or
> something.
> 

You're correct, it's an international standard, not restricted to Germany; box 
resistors are the standard symbol in the UK too.

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Wikibook ?

[Peter TB Brett]

On Friday 24 December 2010 10:12:42 timecop wrote:
> > But why not a real book, that is written in LaTeX?
> 
> Because you just ruled out the remaining 1% of people who even wanted
> to help with writing any kinda documentation.
> 

Wrong.  I much prefer writing LaTeX to writing wiki syntax.  Also, diagrams 
are so much nicer (thank you TikZ!)

   Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Beginner question about the default title block

[Peter TB Brett]

On Wednesday 22 December 2010 19:17:14 Johnny Rosenberg wrote:

> When I open a new page, a ”title block” is all I see, and there I can read
> things like ”DRAWN BY”, ”TITLE”, ”REVISION” and so on. Am I supposed to
> fill that in by using the Text tool ...?

Yes!  That's what I do, anyway.  Other people have other ways of doing it, I'm 
sure. :-)

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: gEDA-dev: Test import of gEDA + PCB bugs on Launchpad

[Peter TB Brett]

On Wednesday 22 Dec 2010 11:40:39 Peter Clifton wrote:

> After much hard work, manual tweaking, and even a patch to Launchpad
> (rolling out onto production servers soon)... I've got something for
> people to PLAY WITH!:
>
> https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/pcb
> https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/geda

Also, everybody should remember that the data from SF.net isn't up-to-date, so 
some tracker items currently on SF won't appear here.

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: gEDA-dev: Test import of gEDA + PCB bugs on Launchpad

[Peter TB Brett]

On Wednesday 22 Dec 2010 11:40:39 Peter Clifton wrote:

> Everything transferred has been given a "sf-import" tag, and the origin
> tracker is identified (if not "bugs"), by an additional "patch-tracker"
> or "support-request" tag. We _could_ change that to a single "sf-bugs"
> "sf-patches" "sf-support" tag, dropping the "sf-import".

Good idea.

 Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Duplicate messages and mailing list To: address

[Peter TB Brett]

On Monday 20 December 2010 18:38:55 Colin D Bennett wrote:
> I'm getting all the replies to Kai-Martin Knaak's messages twice.  It
> looks like it has something to do with K-M's messages having a To: field
> of geda-u...@seul.org while everyone else's has
> geda-user@moria.seul.org, causing the replies to have an extra Cc:
> address of geda-u...@seul.org.  Is everyone else getting the duplicates?
> 

Yes.  I believe that, last time we looked into it, it turned out to be a bug 
(or possibly mis-feature, can't remember) in Evolution. I think.

It helps if, when writing list e-mails, people manually quickly check that 
only one geda-user e-mail address is in the recipients list.

 Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Guile/gschem problem

[Peter TB Brett]

On Saturday 18 December 2010 20:43:41 Eduardo Costa wrote:
> Thanks Peter for your quick answer!,
> 
> No. Mine's a custom made distro (sort of `linux from scratch') I made
> years ago and have been updating by hand as it takes place, although I
> doubt that's the problem.
> 
> I always run into troubles when trying to compile geda, related to the
> software itself (inter-dependencies, etc), though as time goes by
> things are looking much better.

There shouldn't be any interdependencies any more when building gEDA.

If you come across a problem with the build system that's obviously a bug, let 
me know -- I'm interested in fixing such things. :-)

Cheers,

   Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Guile/gschem problem

[Peter TB Brett]

On Saturday 18 December 2010 20:32:11 Eduardo Costa wrote:
> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm trying to compile the suite, but while it does so, I get this
> infamous error when trying to start gschem:
> 

The suite currently only works with Guile 1.8.x.  The last time I saw this 
error, it was when I tried compiling against Guile 1.9.x.  Are you running 
Gentoo?

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns "?" - ID: 3114991

[Peter TB Brett]

> In any case, it seems to me that the user should get an error message
> (from spice-sdb) in this case, as an explicit "?" here means that the
> user has neither set the attribute to something useful nor deleted it as
> irrelevant.

So what you are saying is that you think we should get rid of the "WTF?" 
function in the code, but not modify the symbol library?

Peter

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- Original message -
> 
> On Dec 16, 2010, at 9:29 PM, c...@eugeneweb.com wrote:
> 
> > I'm not sure we're on the same page here. That pice of legacy code is
> > what we want to remove. We don't want any code to reinterpret
> > attributes. For the short term we would like to change a few
> > probramatic symbols so we don't have to have special cases in the code.
> 
> But the "?" is there to tell you, when looking at the symbol in gschem,
> that you *need* to edit the attribute (I use those symbols a lot).
> 
> I'm puzzled here, because I thought Stuart was the author of both
> spice-sdb and the symbols in question, so the "WTF?" is strange.
> 
> 
> John Doty                           Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
> http://www.noqsi.com/
> j...@noqsi.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns "?" - ID: 3114991

[Peter TB Brett]

On Thursday 16 December 2010 20:43:23 c...@eugeneweb.com wrote:

> Ok so we toss current patch in 3114991.

Done.

> Should I make a new one that
> replaces all the "?" in symbols / blocks with "unknown"?

That sounds like a good idea, actually.

> If spice-sdb should choke on any remaining "?" it runs across, then I
> guess my second patch (3117075) is good to go.

Did you see my e-mail from last Thursday?  I've forwarded it in this e-mail in 
case you missed it. There are a couple of things I wouldn't mind changed, if 
possible.

> It seems that another example of attribute placeholders is the
> footprint=none convention. The zero-length values feature might allow us
> to clean up other special cases as well.

Possibly, yes.

Thanks for your work on this.

   Peter

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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Clif,

Firstly, patch 3114991 (get-package-attribute sometimes returns "?").

Two important things:

a) If there is not actually a text object attached to a part with the value 
"file=?" attribute somewhere, we have a problem.  gnetlist/libgeda really 
shouldn't be manufacturing attributes with the value "?".  A proper fix really 
needs to get to the bottom of why this is happening.

b) The name & behaviour of that C function will be completely changing in the 
next few days, so your patch won't apply (see patch 3071482 -- I am currently 
working with the author to finalise this).

I can't accept this patch in its current form, sorry.  If you don't have time 
to track down where the "?" values are coming from, please file a bug and I'll 
try and figure it out at some point.

Secondly, patch 3117075 (spice-sdb -- Several fixes / Cleanups).

a) Please split whitespace changes into a separate patch which *only* changes 
whitespace.  I personally avoid touching whitespace if possible. ;-)  
Actually, this patch would have been better split into a series of patches, 
each of which does one particular clean-up...

b) Syntax for `define' when defining functions.  Here's something I wrote 
yesterday:

> I would greatly appreciate it if the implicit lambda form of `define' was
> used in all new code, i.e.:
>
>   (define (allsame? x)
> (null? (delete (car x) (cdr x
> 
> This is preferred in new Scheme code because it eliminates a set of braces
> and an additional keyword, while being unambiguous.  Additionally, this
> syntax means that the second s-expression in the definition matches the
> prototype of the function, which aids in documentation.  Finally, the
> implicit `define' form supports docstrings, which although we don't
> currently use, we may well use in the future.

c) `spice-sdb:filter-map'.  I'm not sure I understand why you can't just use 
`filter-map'...?

d) Changes to prototype of `spice-sdb:write-net-names-on-component' seem 
sensible.

e) `get-net-name' modifies its argument.  Looking at the code, it's not clear 
to me why this is actually necessary -- could you explain, please? :-)

Thanks!

  Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: FUNDING

[Peter TB Brett]

> Before this deteriorates into a "my software is better than your
> software" contest, can I suggest that we try to keep things on-topic?

An excellent suggestion.

 Peter >:-(

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Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns "?" - ID: 3114991

[Peter TB Brett]

> To fix it in a uniform way I think we need to standardise what we 
> use as a place holder for an attribute. Sould we explicitly put
> "unknown"   or "?"? Unfortunitly gschem won't let you put a null string.

Hi Clif,

Since at the moment gnetlist internally uses the string "unknown" to indicate a 
missing attribute, so that would be the logical choice to use instead of "?" at 
this time.

In the longer term, I would actually quite like it to be legal to have 
attributes with zero-length values.  However, that would obviously be a more 
complicated patch.

I think that the spice-sdb backend should continue to choke on "blah=?" 
attributes, for now.

Regards,

Peter

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- Original message -
> Hi Gang,
> 
> This is about a patch I submitted a while back because myself and others 
> didn't understand the souce of the "?". Patrick found it though. They
> are   from the spice A.. blocks. The value of some of the unpromoted
> attributes   are "?". Apparently they are place holders to remind someone
> to add real   values in the same way R? is a place holder for a refdes.
> 
> 
> The other choice is to not list attributes without useable values, but 
> then you don't have the reminder of which ones to fill in. This gets
> used   like a short version of the add attribute drop down menu, however
> you have   to click on "show inherited attributes" to see them. Though
> most people   don't do that and then wonder where the errors come from.
> ;-)
> 
> If neither of those choices sound good then I have an off the wall one.
> We   could allow null value attributes which are always promoted so you
> would   see them, and this would be a poor mans form in which you have
> the option   of providing their values, or even deleting them.
> Get-package-attribute   would return "unknown" for attributes which exist
> but have null values.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
>       Clif
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: gEDA-user: TRACKERS [was: Re: gEDA-dev: Dev list [was: Random thoughts onthe future interface of PCB]]

[Peter TB Brett]

On Thursday 09 December 2010 21:06:06 Peter Clifton wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-12-09 at 21:22 +0100, Bert Timmerman wrote:
> > ... gEDA and friends can even keep the SF tracker system ...
> 
> Actually, I have been looking quite seriously at the possibility of
> ditching SF trackers and moving all the history of bugs to Launchpad.
> 
> I can do a fairly lossless export, and I'm working on fixing some issues
> with the Launchpad bug import code to be able to translate any bug
> numbers embedded in the bug comments.
> 
> Nothing is decided yet.. beyond verifying that it is technically
> feasible, I want to know that all the current developers buy in (or at
> least consent) to a move.
> 
> Launchpad being properly open source now removes one potentially strong
> argument against its adoption, but no doubt there will be people who
> dislike it for other reasons, or trust SourceForge more than Canonical.
> 
> I'd welcome feedback from people who actively encounter and report bugs
> (especially in favour of the move ;)).
> 
> I'd also welcome feedback from anyone who works with bug reports, test
> patches, merge code etc... (Doesn't have to be with gEDA / PCB, anything
> regarding Launchpad / SourceForge).

Launchpad seems to have a number of advantages of SF.net, including the 
ability to easily mark duplicate bugs and link bugs to a particular branch.  
But it also does "simple", "easy" things better -- for example, it actually 
sends the right content type for attachments to the browser.  It even has 
sensible URLs for bugs.  You can also assign groups of people to a bug, as an 
alternative to individual developers.

My main objection to Launchpad in the past was that it was closed-source, but 
now that that has been changed... it's hard to find a reason not to use it for 
bug tracking instead of SF.net.

 Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Dev list [was: Random thoughts on the future interface of PCB]

[Peter TB Brett]

On Thursday 09 Dec 2010 09:35:53 Stephan Boettcher wrote:
> DJ Delorie  writes:
> > If you want to become a PCB committer, the process starts by writing
> > good patches, reviewing other people's patches, and being involved in
> > design discussions.  When it gets to the point where the maintainers
> > are just checking in whatever you ask, you're in :-)
>
> Well, obviously, this path was tried, but requires too much patience to
> be successful.
>
> And then there is that closed gEDA-dev list.  How can the above work
> when the dev list is closed?

If I remember correctly, a major factor in the closure of the gEDA-dev list 
was that the signal to noise ratio became very low.  There were several 
people, few of whom *ever* submitted patches, loudly and rudely telling the 
people who *were* writing code and having ideas how their approach was wrong, 
the design was wrong, their ideas were wrong, how dare you change anything, 
you *must* do it *my* way, etc etc etc.  It got to the point that it was 
actively *hindering* development, because it was very off-putting to the actual 
developers.

Although the discussions on gEDA-dev are less frequent now, at least they are 
usually quite constructive.

Perhaps the time has come to reconsider the role of and access to the gEDA-dev 
list?  How can we ensure that it doesn't collapse into an unproductive 
bikeshedfest again?

 Peter

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Re: gEDA-user: Small patch to aid use of lib dmalloc

[Peter TB Brett]

On Monday 06 Dec 2010 13:31:09 Peter Clifton wrote:

> I did loose some respect for the dmalloc author(s) when I noticed on
> their page they can't spell "Microsoft Windows" correctly. "Windoze"
>
> In general, valgrind (probably not even conceived of when dmalloc was
> first written), is a much more useful tool for memory leak diagnosis, so
> I wouldn't go _too_ far out of our way to make things dmalloc suitable.

Seconding this -- valgrind / memcheck is absolutely excellent, and generally 
gives much better results than dmalloc in my experience.  For example, I 
recently had to debug a program where I requested memory directly from the 
operating system using mmap(), and Valgrind's support for tracking use of 
uninitialised memory turned out to be invaluable.

Callgrind is also very helpful. :-)

Cheers,

   Peter

-- 
Peter Brett 
Remote Sensing Research Group
Surrey Space Centre



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Re: gEDA-user: Random thoughts on the future interface of PCB

[Peter TB Brett]

On Thursday 02 December 2010 21:13:47 Bob Paddock wrote:

> Peter, while all of this sounds great, could we fix the collective
> problems that we have now first?

Like what, specifically?

> > Scrap straight line rats in favour of using the topological auto-router?
> 
> Do different rat lines help ship products?  Not that I see. To me that
> is the criteria for any feature.

Does Peter C's OpenGL renderer help ship products?  Not that I see, but it 
make PCB a hell of a lot of a more pleasant experience to use.

   Peter (B)

-- 
Peter Brett 
Remote Sensing Research Group
Surrey Space Centre


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Re: gEDA-user: New autorouter high effort mode

[Peter TB Brett]

On Wednesday 01 December 2010 12:51:41 Kovacs Levente wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 08:53:38 +1100
> Stephen Ecob
> 
>  wrote:
> > For my HE autorouter hack I have in mind to fork() off extra processes
> > so that all of my CPU cores can run separate autorouter instances.  As
> > HE has an unbounded run time I'm thinking that the main PCB process
> > should simply hang on to the UI to serve occasional display update
> > requests from the other processes, and to kill off the auto routing
> > processes on user command.
> 
> I think it is enough to make multiple threads. They can run on different
> CPU cores. But I'm not usre.

On Linux and most BSDs, fork() with shared memory is actually cheaper than 
threading, and much much easier to implement.  Unfortunately, that is not true 
on Windows, where fork() is *very* expensive.  So most people use threads. :-/

   Peter

-- 
Peter Brett 
Remote Sensing Research Group
Surrey Space Centre


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Re: gEDA-user: current working file name in gschemrc

[Peter TB Brett]

On Friday 19 November 2010 12:22:05 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote:

> I'd like to replace this with the name of the schematic. The lp command can
> set the base name of the file with the option -t. But how would I teach
> gschemrc to automatically fill in the file name of the current schematic?
> Is there some way to access the file name like this:
>   (print-command "lp -d PDF -t $CURRENTFILENAME")

Hi Kai-Martin,

You will be pleased to hear that this is doable without my Scheme API branch.  
But everything Paul Tan has told you so far has been wrong. :-(

What we're going to do is to override the Scheme function that is called to 
show the print window, so that it first resets the print-command with the 
filename of the current file.

You'll need to add the following to your gschemrc:

  (define %file-print file-print)
  (define (file-print)
(print-command (format #f "lp -d PDF -t \"~A\"" (get-selected-filename)))
(gschem-use-rc-values)
(%file-print))

It is horrible and nasty, but it seems to work.

Regards,

  Peter

-- 
Peter Brett 
Remote Sensing Research Group
Surrey Space Centre


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Re: gEDA-user: New branch of PCB

[Peter TB Brett]

On Tuesday 16 Nov 2010 11:09:34 timecop wrote:
> With TopoR having a freeware version for 2 layers and up to 256 nets
> (or some other fairly high for 'hobby' use limitation), there's not
> really any point on bothering improving built in autorouter...

Even this single sentence contains so many factual inaccuracies and completely 
incorrect assumptions that I can't work out where best to start refuting it.

 Peter


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Re: gEDA-user: gschem pin numbers

[Peter TB Brett]

On Saturday 13 November 2010 18:03:10 Stefan Salewski wrote:
> or you may try the new scheme API of Peter TB Brett, 
mentioned some
> weeks ago on this list.
> 
> >As an example of how gschem plugins can be written using 
this API, the
> >attached `hide-pinseq.scm' file is a plugin for hiding all 
"pinseq"
> >attributes on the current page.

Hi Stefan,

This is actually a piece of code for changing pins in bulk *while 
editing a symbol*.

So it (or something similar) may be useful while doing what John 
suggested. :-)

  Peter


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