Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit
On Tue, July 17, 2012 5:36 am, Bill Kenworthy wrote: SNIPPED Virtualisation ? I am running qemu (windows, gentoo), vbox (windows, gentoo, fedora) and gxemul (ultrix) all 32 bit guests on 32 bit systems on either 32 or 64 bit hardware running gentoo - can you confirm you need 64bit for 64bit guests as I will be moving that way eventually? That being said, I think for future proofing 64bit is the way to go, I can see a time when 32bit is going to get deprecated. In my experience: 32bit host : Only 32 bit guest 64bit host : 32 bit and 64 bit guest I have not been able to run a 64 bit guest on a 32 bit host. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit
There is no reason to use 32bit. Am 17.07.2012 04:28 schrieb Nilesh Govindrajan cont...@nileshgr.com: So the same old query again I guess. What architecture should I use for a machine with 3GB RAM and a 64bit processor? I believe 64bit should be given serious consideration only if RAM is gt or = 4 GB, even there 32bit is allowable with PAE if I'm not wrong. So what is recommended? There are as such no special use cases to go 64bit for me.
[gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit
On 17/07/12 05:22, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: So the same old query again I guess. What architecture should I use for a machine with 3GB RAM and a 64bit processor? I believe 64bit should be given serious consideration only if RAM is gt or = 4 GB, even there 32bit is allowable with PAE if I'm not wrong. So what is recommended? There are as such no special use cases to go 64bit for me. Since your CPU is 64-bit, use that. You will find reports out there about how 64-bit consumes more RAM. The effect however is very small. Also, if you later get more RAM, you won't have to switch archs. DDR3 is very cheap, about 5 bucks ($ or €) per GB right now.
Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit
On Jul 17, 2012 10:08 AM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: --- 8 IMO, it's worth the 'overhead' to run 64-bit, if only for the greater number of GPRs and other architectural improvements. There's honestly a lot of good stuff in x86-64 beyond the larger address space. The increased address space also helps long-lived programs avoid address space fragmentation. -- :wq +1 on architectural improvements. From a purely data-wise view: with 64 bits, Long Integers will be handled much faster than having to manhandle 2 32-bit chunks of half-integers. Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit
64bit means bugs.?? But I use 64. 2012/7/17 Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info: On Jul 17, 2012 10:08 AM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: --- 8 IMO, it's worth the 'overhead' to run 64-bit, if only for the greater number of GPRs and other architectural improvements. There's honestly a lot of good stuff in x86-64 beyond the larger address space. The increased address space also helps long-lived programs avoid address space fragmentation. -- :wq +1 on architectural improvements. From a purely data-wise view: with 64 bits, Long Integers will be handled much faster than having to manhandle 2 32-bit chunks of half-integers. Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] Running a USB graphics cards with Linux?
thats a strange comparison since usb is a serial bus vga is not even digital, so how can you talk about throughput? lol 2012/7/16 Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 6:54 PM, Sebastian Pipping sp...@gentoo.org wrote: Hi there, On 02/15/2012 09:14 PM, gk wrote: Hallo I used one some time ago, and it worked but very slow. The label only says made in China. lsusb output is: Bus 001 Device 004: ID 0711:0900 Magic Control Technology Corp. SVGA Adapter The Kernel module which is loaded is: sisusbvga If your interested in the dongle and you live somewhere around Germany, I can send it to you, because I don't need it anymore. I'm afraid if it's slow I do not have much real use for it. Many thanks for the offer, though! And sorry for the ages that it took to reply. Unfortunately, you're probably not going to find anything for USB which _isn't_ slow. USB is a very slow bus when compared to HDMI, DVI or VGA. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit
On 07/17/2012 07:19 PM, Leiking wrote: 64bit means bugs.?? But I use 64. 2012/7/17 Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info: On Jul 17, 2012 10:08 AM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: --- 8 IMO, it's worth the 'overhead' to run 64-bit, if only for the greater number of GPRs and other architectural improvements. There's honestly a lot of good stuff in x86-64 beyond the larger address space. The increased address space also helps long-lived programs avoid address space fragmentation. -- :wq +1 on architectural improvements. From a purely data-wise view: with 64 bits, Long Integers will be handled much faster than having to manhandle 2 32-bit chunks of half-integers. Rgds, Bugs. This is why I wanted to get an answer to this question specifically. I've been using Gentoo since one year and with amd64 only. But recently (if you noticed), I'd posted a thread about lot of segfaults. As much as I was compelled to think that something is really wrong with my hardware, a similar segfault bug occurred on an _amd64_ Gentoo VM with Linode I manage, that too with a program that had been working ever since I installed it, and there were no updates as such. But from the inputs I received, I think it would be obviously better to stay with 64bit. Is it only me or the ~amd64 branch has become really unstable in the few days? (Yeah I know ~amd64 can be unstable to any extent it wants to, but just a qualitative question) -- Nilesh Govindrajan http://nileshgr.com
Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit
On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 9:23 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP This is all on an amd64 system. I don't know what it's like in 32-bit x86 on Gentoo, as I've never run that form of Gentoo; I let multilib handle things there. -- :wq Correct me if I'm wrong please but as I remember it everyone running 64-bit is running multi-lib unless they specifically choose a no-multilib profile, correct? Anyway, I suspect our systems are reasonably similar in terms of capability, and for clarity, the only 64-bit machine I have any troubles on, which are Flash OpenGL/KDE, is my compute server that runs VMs all day, and those problems only started when I added a second Nvidia card. With a single card 2 monitors everything was fine. With 2 cards, both Nvidia but different models, and 3 monitors, Flash in Firefox fails all the time, (But not Flash in Chrome where it's built in) and some of the nice OpenGL features of KDE simply don't operate any more. If I had lots of money I'd look into an Nvidia card that supports 4 outputs but for now I'm stuck with what I've got! - Mark
Re: Re: [gentoo-user] Running a USB graphics cards with Linux?
Em , Kilian Zott kil...@diezotts.de escreveu: thats a strange comparison since usb is a serial busvga is not even digital, so how can you talk about throughput? lol 2012/7/16 Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 6:54 PM, Sebastian Pipping sp...@gentoo.org wrote: Hi there, On 02/15/2012 09:14 PM, gk wrote: Hallo I used one some time ago, and it worked but very slow. The label only says made in China. lsusb output is: Bus 001 Device 004: ID 0711:0900 Magic Control Technology Corp. SVGA Adapter The Kernel module which is loaded is: sisusbvga If your interested in the dongle and you live somewhere around Germany, I can send it to you, because I don't need it anymore. I'm afraid if it's slow I do not have much real use for it. Many thanks for the offer, though! And sorry for the ages that it took to reply. Unfortunately, you're probably not going to find anything for USB which _isn't_ slow. USB is a very slow bus when compared to HDMI, DVI or VGA. -- :wq Well, thinkig a bit, even on a non digital interface, as you have those vertical and horizontal frequencies for each video mode, I guess one can talk like pixels per second using some math on those numbers. Francisco
Re: Re: [gentoo-user] Running a USB graphics cards with Linux?
You could compare the frame rate, but an analog signal cant be compared to a digital signal ^^ if you resolute your analog voltage in 8 bit (256 steps each subpixel, so 24bit color depth) you get some offset on the transmission so you could not use an analog interface in order to transmit data (there would only trash arrive)! and there is no error correction either. next thing is that the usb interface is not between the screen and the graphics card but between the mainboard and the graphics card there is no video transmission at this place! it would be more sensible to compare usb to pci-e or agp. 2012/7/17 fra...@gmail.com Em , Kilian Zott kil...@diezotts.de escreveu: thats a strange comparison since usb is a serial busvga is not even digital, so how can you talk about throughput? lol 2012/7/16 Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 6:54 PM, Sebastian Pipping sp...@gentoo.org wrote: Hi there, On 02/15/2012 09:14 PM, gk wrote: Hallo I used one some time ago, and it worked but very slow. The label only says made in China. lsusb output is: Bus 001 Device 004: ID 0711:0900 Magic Control Technology Corp. SVGA Adapter The Kernel module which is loaded is: sisusbvga If your interested in the dongle and you live somewhere around Germany, I can send it to you, because I don't need it anymore. I'm afraid if it's slow I do not have much real use for it. Many thanks for the offer, though! And sorry for the ages that it took to reply. Unfortunately, you're probably not going to find anything for USB which _isn't_ slow. USB is a very slow bus when compared to HDMI, DVI or VGA. -- :wq Well, thinkig a bit, even on a non digital interface, as you have those vertical and horizontal frequencies for each video mode, I guess one can talk like pixels per second using some math on those numbers. Francisco
Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 9:23 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP This is all on an amd64 system. I don't know what it's like in 32-bit x86 on Gentoo, as I've never run that form of Gentoo; I let multilib handle things there. -- :wq Correct me if I'm wrong please but as I remember it everyone running 64-bit is running multi-lib unless they specifically choose a no-multilib profile, correct? Correct. And I'm not using a no-multilib profile, either. Anyway, I suspect our systems are reasonably similar in terms of capability, and for clarity, the only 64-bit machine I have any troubles on, which are Flash OpenGL/KDE, is my compute server that runs VMs all day, and those problems only started when I added a second Nvidia card. I haven't run a dual-card setup. I have two systems I can relate to. One is a dual-E5345 system with 10GB of RAM, and one is a Phenom 9650 with 8GB of RAM. With a single card 2 monitors everything was fine. With 2 cards, both Nvidia but different models, and 3 monitors, Flash in Firefox fails all the time, (But not Flash in Chrome where it's built in) and some of the nice OpenGL features of KDE simply don't operate any more. I haven't run a multimon setup in a while. I sacrificed one of my displays as a debugging display for another machine. What driver are you using? About 3 years ago, I had a setup going where I was using both my onboard ATI RadeonHD3200 and an nVidia GeForce 210 with five displays split across the two. Flash never *crashed* on me, but it did get extraordinarily confused whenever it came time to fullscreen. (I did eventually switch to using an ATI Radeon 5770, but only because of the headaches trying to manage things with two different proprietary tools. You could do some scary stuff at the time. I don't know if that's still possible. I'm certain I was running an unsupported configuration...) If I had lots of money I'd look into an Nvidia card that supports 4 outputs but for now I'm stuck with what I've got! I'd bet on it being a driver issue. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] Running a USB graphics cards with Linux?
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Kilian Zott kil...@diezotts.de wrote: thats a strange comparison since usb is a serial bus vga is not even digital, so how can you talk about throughput? lol Information doesn't need to be digital. Terms like 'bandwidth' really do apply. VGA does place some structure on its signal. You have a vertical and horizontal refresh rates. Your vertical refresh rate is usually in the 10s of Hz. I've seen displays range from 56Hz (terrible, terrible flicker on CRTs) to 120Hz (smooth as glass). Your horizontal refresh rates are usually in the 10s of *KHz*. The combination of the two dictated how many scanlines you could fit into your signal. Your number of pixels in a line was (in reality) limited by your video card's dot clock, but you might adjust things if you preferred, e.g. square pixels instead of whatever the per-pixel aspect ratio normally was. (I really don't rememeber.) Unlike DVI and HDMI, which support pixel formats that have subsampling, VGA didn't have any kind of compression mechanism. You had three channels, red, green and blue, and their voltage levels on the wire controlled the brightness of that color at whatever particular point on the display corresponded to that instant in your horizontal and vertical sweeps. If you'd like to know how I compare USB and VGA, look at ways VGA and DVI are analogous. Of course, under certain (now very unusual) circumstances, VGA can kick DVI's butt. -- :wq
Re: Re: [gentoo-user] Running a USB graphics cards with Linux?
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Kilian Zott kil...@diezotts.de wrote: You could compare the frame rate, but an analog signal cant be compared to a digital signal ^^ if you resolute your analog voltage in 8 bit (256 steps each subpixel, so 24bit color depth) you get some offset on the transmission so you could not use an analog interface in order to transmit data (there would only trash arrive)! and there is no error correction either. next thing is that the usb interface is not between the screen and the graphics card but between the mainboard and the graphics card there is no video transmission at this place! it would be more sensible to compare usb to pci-e or agp. Please stop top-posting; it's difficult to keep the conversation clear. And see my other reply to you. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit
Am Dienstag, 17. Juli 2012, 07:52:08 schrieb Nilesh Govindrajan: So the same old query again I guess. What architecture should I use for a machine with 3GB RAM and a 64bit processor? I believe 64bit should be given serious consideration only if RAM is gt or = 4 GB, even there 32bit is allowable with PAE if I'm not wrong. So what is recommended? There are as such no special use cases to go 64bit for me. now that I am home: you believe wrong. There are many good reasons to go 64 bit. Easier memory managment, more registers. Bigger register. Faster math because of the bigger registers. There is seriously NUL reasons to use 32bit. Zero. Zilch. Why throw away all those nice improvements - for nothing in return? Video-codecs? I haven't seen a video in years that was not playable by 64bit ffmpeg based players but worked with 32bit. Those who were troublemakers were also unplayable with 32bit codecs. Flash? Just works. Stable? You bet. The only use case that might come up is wine - I don't know anything about that beast. Haven't had any use for it in years. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit
Am Dienstag, 17. Juli 2012, 19:34:32 schrieb Nilesh Govindrajan: Is it only me or the ~amd64 branch has become really unstable in the few days? (Yeah I know ~amd64 can be unstable to any extent it wants to, but just a qualitative question) It is you. Some gnome/freedesktop/whatthehell stuff interacting badly. Not a 64bit problem. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] consolekit is not active in awesome.
Am Samstag, 14. Juli 2012, 19:07:09 schrieb Leiking: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-930032.html?sid=5c01cd2a5c1d5d0da75c6ac 01abf04a0 next time post something more than just some link I am way too lazy to click. Since it is not clear from your subject I have a question: are you glad and happy that consolekit is not active or do you want consolekit to be active? Could go either ways. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 12:31 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Dienstag, 17. Juli 2012, 07:52:08 schrieb Nilesh Govindrajan: So the same old query again I guess. What architecture should I use for a machine with 3GB RAM and a 64bit processor? I believe 64bit should be given serious consideration only if RAM is gt or = 4 GB, even there 32bit is allowable with PAE if I'm not wrong. So what is recommended? There are as such no special use cases to go 64bit for me. now that I am home: you believe wrong. There are many good reasons to go 64 bit. Easier memory managment, more registers. Bigger register. Faster math because of the bigger registers. There is seriously NUL reasons to use 32bit. Zero. Zilch. Why throw away all those nice improvements - for nothing in return? Video-codecs? I haven't seen a video in years that was not playable by 64bit ffmpeg based players but worked with 32bit. Those who were troublemakers were also unplayable with 32bit codecs. Flash? Just works. Stable? You bet. The only use case that might come up is wine - I don't know anything about that beast. Haven't had any use for it in years. IME, 64-bit WINE 64-bit works as well as 32-bit WINE...Which is to say, your mileage will vary based on what you're doing, same as it always has. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit
On Jul 17, 2012 11:32 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: *snip* The only use case that might come up is wine - I don't know anything about that beast. Haven't had any use for it in years. -- #163933 I use wine daily on 64 bit with no problems. You can generate a 32 or 64 bit config with the WINEARCH setting but I haven't found a reason to use a win64 config (nor do I know the differences within wine). I am not sure if a 32 bit OS would make a wine any faster, but probably not noticeably faster. OT: Wine on Gentoo seems much faster than other distros. I think this is one case where the performance makes a difference. I usually do it with Lord of the Rings Online, which is more intensive than WoW as Michael mentioned to run. Alecks Gates, sent from Android on an HTC G2
Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: SNIP Video-codecs? I haven't seen a video in years that was not playable by 64bit ffmpeg based players but worked with 32bit. SNIP Lots of wmv files won't play in 64-bit. That's the only one I have trouble with. They play fine in 32-bit Gentoo. - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Ángstróm Distribution: Sourcecode download?
On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 05:17:50 +0200 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, does someone know a way to download the Angstrom-Distribution and the according toolchain to build the binarie via crosscompiling on my Gentoo-system (I only found the binaries...) ? Thank you very much in advance for any help! Best regards, mcc Angstrom is built from OpenEmbedded, you may want to check www.openembedded.org --
[gentoo-user] Multilib or not?
Hi list. I've been using gentoo amd64 multilib for at least five year, and the system is working pretty well. But the recent discussion about 64 bit over 32 made me wonder about changing the profile to a non-multilib. So I run 'revdep-rebuild --verbose' just to check what do I have that still depends on emul-linux-x86* and I've found: app-emulation/wine-1.4 sys-boot/grub-0.97-r10 www-plugins/google-talkplugin-2.1.7.0 x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers-295.59 games-emulation/zsnes-1.51-r2 skype I suppose that I'll have no problem with wine or nvidia-drivers based on preview discussion. But how about grub, zsnes, skype or some .bin games installed outside portage, like Aminesia? I'm assuming that I'll also have no problems with codecs, because since I compiled mplayer with vdpau support I can play all video stuff with it. Thank you, -- João de Matos Linux User #461527
Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit
Video-codecs? I haven't seen a video in years that was not playable by 64bit ffmpeg based players but worked with 32bit. SNIP Lots of wmv files won't play in 64-bit. That's the only one I have trouble with. They play fine in 32-bit Gentoo. Mark, was thinking of you and your videos that don't play on 64bit when I read Volkers statement :) ffmpeg know lots of shit, but not all if it.
Re: [gentoo-user] Multilib or not?
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 2:08 PM, João Matos jaon...@gmail.com wrote: Hi list. I've been using gentoo amd64 multilib for at least five year, and the system is working pretty well. But the recent discussion about 64 bit over 32 made me wonder about changing the profile to a non-multilib. So I run 'revdep-rebuild --verbose' just to check what do I have that still depends on emul-linux-x86* and I've found: app-emulation/wine-1.4 sys-boot/grub-0.97-r10 www-plugins/google-talkplugin-2.1.7.0 x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers-295.59 games-emulation/zsnes-1.51-r2 skype I suppose that I'll have no problem with wine or nvidia-drivers based on preview discussion. But how about grub, zsnes, skype or some .bin games installed outside portage, like Aminesia? Don't know. I'm assuming that I'll also have no problems with codecs, because since I compiled mplayer with vdpau support I can play all video stuff with it. There will be some codecs which mplayer doesn't support. Stuff whose particular spec has been lost to time, missing documentation and win32codecs. That will continue to be the case until the reverse-engineering geeks find time and samples to cover the remainder. Honestly, I don't see much of a point to getting rid of multilib, unless you're looking for some sense of systemic purity. I do know people who do that. (But they also avoid anything closed-source, which certainly helps.) -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Michael Hampicke gentoo-u...@hadt.biz wrote: Video-codecs? I haven't seen a video in years that was not playable by 64bit ffmpeg based players but worked with 32bit. SNIP Lots of wmv files won't play in 64-bit. That's the only one I have trouble with. They play fine in 32-bit Gentoo. Mark, was thinking of you and your videos that don't play on 64bit when I read Volkers statement :) ffmpeg know lots of shit, but not all if it. Yeah, that's the truth. I suspect this specific case just lacks a smart developer who wants to figure it all out and do the work to make an Open Source codec that plays the file type, but maybe there's patents and other junk that gets in the way. And really, as I use a lot of VM's all day long, it doesn't seem overly important any more. It's trivial to just run a Windows VM to play wmv files whereas finding someone in the Linux world who actually cares about supporting and promoting the wmv format seems like a waste of my time and theirs. They can work on better things. Cheers, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Michael Hampicke gentoo-u...@hadt.biz wrote: Video-codecs? I haven't seen a video in years that was not playable by 64bit ffmpeg based players but worked with 32bit. SNIP Lots of wmv files won't play in 64-bit. That's the only one I have trouble with. They play fine in 32-bit Gentoo. Mark, was thinking of you and your videos that don't play on 64bit when I read Volkers statement :) ffmpeg know lots of shit, but not all if it. Yeah, that's the truth. I suspect this specific case just lacks a smart developer who wants to figure it all out and do the work to make an Open Source codec that plays the file type, but maybe there's patents and other junk that gets in the way. It's possible they just don't have a sample to work with. If you can send it to them, they can at least add it to their samples archives. And really, as I use a lot of VM's all day long, it doesn't seem overly important any more. It's trivial to just run a Windows VM to play wmv files whereas finding someone in the Linux world who actually cares about supporting and promoting the wmv format seems like a waste of my time and theirs. They can work on better things. There are containers and codecs. Most containers are supported, leaving the codecs. Can you post the output of 'mplayer -identify $filename' on that file? -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] Multilib or not?
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 3:15 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 2:08 PM, João Matos jaon...@gmail.com wrote: I suppose that I'll have no problem with wine or nvidia-drivers based on preview discussion. But how about grub, zsnes, skype or some .bin games installed outside portage, like Aminesia? Don't know. I'm assuming that I'll also have no problems with codecs, because since I compiled mplayer with vdpau support I can play all video stuff with it. There will be some codecs which mplayer doesn't support. Stuff whose particular spec has been lost to time, missing documentation and win32codecs. That will continue to be the case until the reverse-engineering geeks find time and samples to cover the remainder. Honestly, I don't see much of a point to getting rid of multilib, unless you're looking for some sense of systemic purity. I do know people who do that. (But they also avoid anything closed-source, which certainly helps.) I have to agree on that, its just too much work for no apparent gain. Unless we are talking about mission critical systems where we should avoid any point of possible failure, but I guess if it was the case, ZNES wouldn't be installed :D But maybe I'm the wrong person to ask, I still run a 32 bits system, never bothered to go full 64 for the same exact reason above (and since this system is almost 6 years old, with no reinstall, just minor adjustments to hardware changes, I don't plan on a full install so soon). -- Daniel da Veiga
Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit
And really, as I use a lot of VM's all day long, it doesn't seem overly important any more. It's trivial to just run a Windows VM to play wmv files whereas finding someone in the Linux world who actually cares about supporting and promoting the wmv format seems like a waste of my time and theirs. They can work on better things. There are containers and codecs. Most containers are supported, leaving the codecs. Can you post the output of 'mplayer -identify $filename' on that file? If memory serves me right it was MSS2 which requires a 32bit mplayer build with the win32codecs use flag enabled.
Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Michael Hampicke gentoo-u...@hadt.biz wrote: Video-codecs? I haven't seen a video in years that was not playable by 64bit ffmpeg based players but worked with 32bit. SNIP Lots of wmv files won't play in 64-bit. That's the only one I have trouble with. They play fine in 32-bit Gentoo. Mark, was thinking of you and your videos that don't play on 64bit when I read Volkers statement :) ffmpeg know lots of shit, but not all if it. Yeah, that's the truth. I suspect this specific case just lacks a smart developer who wants to figure it all out and do the work to make an Open Source codec that plays the file type, but maybe there's patents and other junk that gets in the way. It's possible they just don't have a sample to work with. If you can send it to them, they can at least add it to their samples archives. And really, as I use a lot of VM's all day long, it doesn't seem overly important any more. It's trivial to just run a Windows VM to play wmv files whereas finding someone in the Linux world who actually cares about supporting and promoting the wmv format seems like a waste of my time and theirs. They can work on better things. There are containers and codecs. Most containers are supported, leaving the codecs. Can you post the output of 'mplayer -identify $filename' on that file? -- :wq Point me toward a samples archive and I'll post a file. The file plays audio in mplayer. There is no video which is consistent with what I see here. Granted, this is 64-bit and I don't have win32codecs installed which is what plays it on the 32-bit VM. - Mark mark@c2stable ~/Builder/1_BrooksPriceAction/2012_04 $ mplayer -identify BTR20120330-3544edit.wmv MPlayer SVN-r33094-4.5.3 (C) 2000-2011 MPlayer Team Playing BTR20120330-3544edit.wmv. ASF file format detected. ID_AUDIO_ID=1 [asfheader] Audio stream found, -aid 1 ID_VIDEO_ID=2 [asfheader] Video stream found, -vid 2 VIDEO: [MSS2] 1366x740 24bpp 1000.000 fps 4971.0 kbps (606.8 kbyte/s) Load subtitles in ./ ID_FILENAME=BTR20120330-3544edit.wmv ID_DEMUXER=asf ID_VIDEO_FORMAT=MSS2 ID_VIDEO_BITRATE=4971000 ID_VIDEO_WIDTH=1366 ID_VIDEO_HEIGHT=740 ID_VIDEO_FPS=1000.000 ID_VIDEO_ASPECT=0. ID_AUDIO_FORMAT=353 ID_AUDIO_BITRATE=0 ID_AUDIO_RATE=0 ID_AUDIO_NCH=0 ID_START_TIME=5.00 ID_LENGTH=8713.83 ID_SEEKABLE=1 ID_CHAPTERS=0 == Requested video codec family [wmsdmod] (vfm=dmo) not available. Enable it at compilation. Requested video codec family [wms10dmod] (vfm=dmo) not available. Enable it at compilation. Cannot find codec matching selected -vo and video format 0x3253534D. == == Opening audio decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg/libavcodec audio decoders AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 1 ch, s16le, 20.0 kbit/2.84% (ratio: 2501-88200) ID_AUDIO_BITRATE=20008 ID_AUDIO_RATE=44100 ID_AUDIO_NCH=1 Selected audio codec: [ffwmav2] afm: ffmpeg (DivX audio v2 (FFmpeg)) == AO: [alsa] 48000Hz 1ch s16le (2 bytes per sample) ID_AUDIO_CODEC=ffwmav2 Video: no video Starting playback... A: 16.1 (16.0) of 8713.8 ( 2:25:13.8) 0.3% MPlayer interrupted by signal 2 in module: play_audio ID_SIGNAL=2 A: 16.1 (16.1) of 8713.8 ( 2:25:13.8) 0.3% Exiting... (Quit) ID_EXIT=QUIT
Re: [gentoo-user] Multilib or not?
So I run 'revdep-rebuild --verbose' just to check what do I have that still depends on emul-linux-x86* and I've found: app-emulation/wine-1.4 sys-boot/grub-0.97-r10 www-plugins/google-talkplugin-2.1.7.0 x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers-295.59 games-emulation/zsnes-1.51-r2 skype For grub you could use grub-static or grub2. I have some 64bit no-multilib servers that run grub-static without problems. But I have to agree with Mike here, I really don't see why one would use a no-multilib profile on a desktop machine :)
Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Michael Hampicke gentoo-u...@hadt.biz wrote: Video-codecs? I haven't seen a video in years that was not playable by 64bit ffmpeg based players but worked with 32bit. SNIP Lots of wmv files won't play in 64-bit. That's the only one I have trouble with. They play fine in 32-bit Gentoo. Mark, was thinking of you and your videos that don't play on 64bit when I read Volkers statement :) ffmpeg know lots of shit, but not all if it. Yeah, that's the truth. I suspect this specific case just lacks a smart developer who wants to figure it all out and do the work to make an Open Source codec that plays the file type, but maybe there's patents and other junk that gets in the way. It's possible they just don't have a sample to work with. If you can send it to them, they can at least add it to their samples archives. And really, as I use a lot of VM's all day long, it doesn't seem overly important any more. It's trivial to just run a Windows VM to play wmv files whereas finding someone in the Linux world who actually cares about supporting and promoting the wmv format seems like a waste of my time and theirs. They can work on better things. There are containers and codecs. Most containers are supported, leaving the codecs. Can you post the output of 'mplayer -identify $filename' on that file? Point me toward a samples archive and I'll post a file. There may be no need. Not sure. http://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/750 That said, you might get in touch with mike (at) multimedia.cx, as he's had a long history of involvement. Offer the sample, mention it's a codec you need to view frequently. Perhaps ask who you might poke who'd have an interest in it. I'd probably include the above link. The file plays audio in mplayer. There is no video which is consistent with what I see here. Granted, this is 64-bit and I don't have win32codecs installed which is what plays it on the 32-bit VM. [snip] Yeah, it's MSS2. And it sounds like upstream is aware of it. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP There are containers and codecs. Most containers are supported, leaving the codecs. Can you post the output of 'mplayer -identify $filename' on that file? Point me toward a samples archive and I'll post a file. There may be no need. Not sure. http://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/750 That said, you might get in touch with mike (at) multimedia.cx, as he's had a long history of involvement. Offer the sample, mention it's a codec you need to view frequently. Perhaps ask who you might poke who'd have an interest in it. I'd probably include the above link. The file plays audio in mplayer. There is no video which is consistent with what I see here. Granted, this is 64-bit and I don't have win32codecs installed which is what plays it on the 32-bit VM. [snip] Yeah, it's MSS2. And it sounds like upstream is aware of it. -- :wq Indeed, I downloaded the wmv file attached to that report and it does the same thing. Audio is fine, no video. Cheers, Mark - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Multilib or not?
Michael Hampicke wrote: So I run 'revdep-rebuild --verbose' just to check what do I have that still depends on emul-linux-x86* and I've found: app-emulation/wine-1.4 sys-boot/grub-0.97-r10 www-plugins/google-talkplugin-2.1.7.0 x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers-295.59 games-emulation/zsnes-1.51-r2 skype For grub you could use grub-static or grub2. I have some 64bit no-multilib servers that run grub-static without problems. But I have to agree with Mike here, I really don't see why one would use a no-multilib profile on a desktop machine :) When I did my install on this new rig, I installed grub-static and so far, it has worked fine. I haven't jumped off the cliff with grub2 yet. I also chose multi-lib when I did this install. The only complaint so far was flash but when has it ever really been stable to begin with? o_O I have to also mention, 64 bit does seem to use more memory. It's not a whole lot but it is noticeable. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
[gentoo-user] Re: Multilib or not?
On 17/07/12 21:08, João Matos wrote: Hi list. I've been using gentoo amd64 multilib for at least five year, and the system is working pretty well. But the recent discussion about 64 bit over 32 made me wonder about changing the profile to a non-multilib. There is no advantage in non-multilib, unless you think 0.5GB of disk space is too much.
[gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit
On 17/07/12 19:43, Alecks Gates wrote: On Jul 17, 2012 11:32 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com mailto:volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: *snip* The only use case that might come up is wine - I don't know anything about that beast. Haven't had any use for it in years. -- #163933 I use wine daily on 64 bit with no problems. 64-bit Wine cannot run 32-bit Windows applications. You need a 32-bit Wine for that. And since in 99.9% of Windows software is 32-bit... well, you get the point :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Multilib or not?
well, I think I'm good with multlib. Thank you all. 2012/7/17 Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com On 17/07/12 21:08, João Matos wrote: Hi list. I've been using gentoo amd64 multilib for at least five year, and the system is working pretty well. But the recent discussion about 64 bit over 32 made me wonder about changing the profile to a non-multilib. There is no advantage in non-multilib, unless you think 0.5GB of disk space is too much. -- João de Matos Linux User #461527
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/07/12 19:43, Alecks Gates wrote: On Jul 17, 2012 11:32 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com mailto:volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: *snip* The only use case that might come up is wine - I don't know anything about that beast. Haven't had any use for it in years. -- #163933 I use wine daily on 64 bit with no problems. 64-bit Wine cannot run 32-bit Windows applications. You need a 32-bit Wine for that. And since in 99.9% of Windows software is 32-bit... well, you get the point :-) Sure, but 64-bit wine can run either a win32 or a win64 config, and you have to enable win64 with the win64 USE flag. I believe this makes the win64 config default and you have to set WINEARCH=win32 if you want only 32-bit. According to the winehq docs[1] the WINEARCH environment variable Specifies the Windows architecture to support. It can be set either to win32 (support only 32-bit applications), or to win64 (support both 64-bit applications and 32-bit ones in WoW64 mode). The architecture supported by a given Wine prefix is set at prefix creation time and cannot be changed afterwards. When running with an existing prefix, Wine will refuse to start if WINEARCH doesn't match the prefix architecture. It is meant to be able to run both 64-bit and 32-bit applications, but I think it's a bit buggy -- I've had some trouble installing microsoft visual c++ runtimes due to running a win64 config, but I could have been doing it wrong. [1] http://www.winehq.org/docs/wineusr-guide/x258
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/07/12 19:43, Alecks Gates wrote: On Jul 17, 2012 11:32 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com mailto:volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: *snip* The only use case that might come up is wine - I don't know anything about that beast. Haven't had any use for it in years. -- #163933 I use wine daily on 64 bit with no problems. 64-bit Wine cannot run 32-bit Windows applications. You need a 32-bit Wine for that. And since in 99.9% of Windows software is 32-bit... well, you get the point :-) Wine supports a WoW64 setup, where you build both 32-bit and 64-bit wine, and 32- and 64-bit binaries are interoperable. I just took a brief look at the gentoo ebuild and it appears to enable this if you have both win32 and win64 USE flags set. I haven't tried it myself, so I can't say if or how it really works. :)
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Ángstróm Distribution: Sourcecode download?
Daniel Wagener st...@gmx.net [12-07-17 19:00]: On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 05:17:50 +0200 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, does someone know a way to download the Angstrom-Distribution and the according toolchain to build the binarie via crosscompiling on my Gentoo-system (I only found the binaries...) ? Thank you very much in advance for any help! Best regards, mcc Angstrom is built from OpenEmbedded, you may want to check www.openembedded.org -- Hi Daniel, Ah! Things are becoming much clearer now! /THIS/ is the reason for which I wasn't able to locate the source of Angstrom on the Angstrom pages ;) :))) Thank your very much for the info!! Best regards, mcc
[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Ángstróm Distribution: Sourcecode download?
meino.cramer at gmx.de writes: does someone know a way to download the Angstrom-Distribution and the according toolchain to build the binarie via crosscompiling on my Gentoo-system (I only found the binaries...) ? Thank you very much in advance for any help! You may find this resource useful http://narcissus.angstrom-distribution.org/ hth, James
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit
On Jul 18, 2012 2:52 AM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/07/12 19:43, Alecks Gates wrote: On Jul 17, 2012 11:32 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com mailto:volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: *snip* The only use case that might come up is wine - I don't know anything about that beast. Haven't had any use for it in years. -- #163933 I use wine daily on 64 bit with no problems. 64-bit Wine cannot run 32-bit Windows applications. You need a 32-bit Wine for that. And since in 99.9% of Windows software is 32-bit... well, you get the point :-) Wine supports a WoW64 setup, where you build both 32-bit and 64-bit wine, and 32- and 64-bit binaries are interoperable. I just took a brief look at the gentoo ebuild and it appears to enable this if you have both win32 and win64 USE flags set. I haven't tried it myself, so I can't say if or how it really works. :) Good discussion, guys. I'll continue with 64bit :)
