Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo-sources : stable versions
On Sunday, 1 July 2018 16:58:15 BST Mick wrote: > On Saturday, 30 June 2018 10:28:11 BST Philip Webb wrote: > > 180626 Rich Freeman wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 8:58 PM Philip Webb wrote: > > >> Does anyone know why the latest stable version of Gentoo-sources is > > >> 4.9.xx ? I installed 4.9.16 , which I continue to use, on 2017-04-06 . > > >> The tree contains versions of 4.14 4.16 4.17 , but all are still > > >> testing. > > > > > > I believe that some had been complaining about stability issues with > > > 4.14, > > > but personally I've been fine with it, and since I have a Ryzen CPU > > > I want something that has the SMT support enabled ... > > > I don't know what the Gentoo plans are for 4.14 - > > > I know they've been avoiding it for a while. > > > I'm not sure if they ever plan to move to it > > > or if they're just hoping to skip it entirely. > > > I think we sb getting a new longterm sometime in the next few months. > > > > Well, wonders never cease (smile) : Gentoo-sources-4.14.52 is now stable ! > > > > I've emerged it & will probably install it tomorrow. > > Hopefully, this will also allow me to upgrade to Nvidia-drivers-396.24-r1 > > . > > > > As always, my thanks to the volunteers involved. > > Hear, hear! > > However, 4.14.52 like all kernels after the 4.9.x series badly break the > Dell XPS USB WiFi and bluetooth Broadcom chip. :-( > > The moment I switch on the darn thing with or without starting net.wlan0 and > with or without starting bluetooth I get two runaway systemd-udev processes > chewing up CPU time. Bluetooth does not work at all. > > 23767 root 20 0 38016 5184 2888 S 40.9 0.1 0:07.35 /lib/ > systemd/systemd-udevd --daemon > 785 root 20 0 56112 22572 2732 S 26.1 0.6 0:03.50 /lib/ > systemd/systemd-udevd --daemon > > udev appears to be fighting against the kernel by binding and unbinding the > Broadcom devices: > > KERNEL[6760.138491] bind /devices/pci:00/:00:1d.0/ > usb2/2-1/2-1.6/2-1.6.2/2-1.6.2:1.0 (usb) > KERNEL[6760.138640] unbind /devices/pci:00/:00:1d.0/ > usb2/2-1/2-1.6/2-1.6.2/2-1.6.2:1.0 (usb) > UDEV [6760.139080] bind /devices/pci:00/:00:1d.0/ > usb2/2-1/2-1.6/2-1.6.2/2-1.6.2:1.0 (usb) > KERNEL[6760.143273] bind /devices/pci:00/:00:1d.0/ > usb2/2-1/2-1.6/2-1.6.2/2-1.6.2:1.0 (usb) > KERNEL[6760.143500] unbind /devices/pci:00/:00:1d.0/ > usb2/2-1/2-1.6/2-1.6.2/2-1.6.2:1.0 (usb) > UDEV [6760.143817] unbind /devices/pci:00/:00:1d.0/ > usb2/2-1/2-1.6/2-1.6.2/2-1.6.2:1.0 (usb) > > which are scrolling by endlessly at V high speed. These are the offending > devices: > > Bus 002 Device 017: ID 413c:8156 Dell Computer Corp. Wireless 370 Bluetooth > Mini-card > .. > Bus 002 Device 014: ID 0a5c:4500 Broadcom Corp. BCM2046B1 USB 2.0 Hub (part > of BCM2046 Bluetooth) > > Killing /lib/systemd/systemd-udevd --daemon causes my USB mouse to no longer > be recognised. > > Is there a clever way of getting out of this race condition and is there a > way to troubleshoot it further without going into kernel debugging at this > stage? Sadly no solution yet, but there is a report requesting a buggy kernel commit to be reverted: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=199035 -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo-sources : stable versions
On Saturday, 30 June 2018 10:28:11 BST Philip Webb wrote: > 180626 Rich Freeman wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 8:58 PM Philip Webb wrote: > >> Does anyone know why the latest stable version of Gentoo-sources is > >> 4.9.xx ? I installed 4.9.16 , which I continue to use, on 2017-04-06 . > >> The tree contains versions of 4.14 4.16 4.17 , but all are still testing. > > > > I believe that some had been complaining about stability issues with 4.14, > > but personally I've been fine with it, and since I have a Ryzen CPU > > I want something that has the SMT support enabled ... > > I don't know what the Gentoo plans are for 4.14 - > > I know they've been avoiding it for a while. > > I'm not sure if they ever plan to move to it > > or if they're just hoping to skip it entirely. > > I think we sb getting a new longterm sometime in the next few months. > > Well, wonders never cease (smile) : Gentoo-sources-4.14.52 is now stable ! > > I've emerged it & will probably install it tomorrow. > Hopefully, this will also allow me to upgrade to Nvidia-drivers-396.24-r1 . > > As always, my thanks to the volunteers involved. Hear, hear! However, 4.14.52 like all kernels after the 4.9.x series badly break the Dell XPS USB WiFi and bluetooth Broadcom chip. :-( The moment I switch on the darn thing with or without starting net.wlan0 and with or without starting bluetooth I get two runaway systemd-udev processes chewing up CPU time. Bluetooth does not work at all. 23767 root 20 0 38016 5184 2888 S 40.9 0.1 0:07.35 /lib/ systemd/systemd-udevd --daemon 785 root 20 0 56112 22572 2732 S 26.1 0.6 0:03.50 /lib/ systemd/systemd-udevd --daemon udev appears to be fighting against the kernel by binding and unbinding the Broadcom devices: KERNEL[6760.138491] bind /devices/pci:00/:00:1d.0/ usb2/2-1/2-1.6/2-1.6.2/2-1.6.2:1.0 (usb) KERNEL[6760.138640] unbind /devices/pci:00/:00:1d.0/ usb2/2-1/2-1.6/2-1.6.2/2-1.6.2:1.0 (usb) UDEV [6760.139080] bind /devices/pci:00/:00:1d.0/ usb2/2-1/2-1.6/2-1.6.2/2-1.6.2:1.0 (usb) KERNEL[6760.143273] bind /devices/pci:00/:00:1d.0/ usb2/2-1/2-1.6/2-1.6.2/2-1.6.2:1.0 (usb) KERNEL[6760.143500] unbind /devices/pci:00/:00:1d.0/ usb2/2-1/2-1.6/2-1.6.2/2-1.6.2:1.0 (usb) UDEV [6760.143817] unbind /devices/pci:00/:00:1d.0/ usb2/2-1/2-1.6/2-1.6.2/2-1.6.2:1.0 (usb) which are scrolling by endlessly at V high speed. These are the offending devices: Bus 002 Device 017: ID 413c:8156 Dell Computer Corp. Wireless 370 Bluetooth Mini-card .. Bus 002 Device 014: ID 0a5c:4500 Broadcom Corp. BCM2046B1 USB 2.0 Hub (part of BCM2046 Bluetooth) Killing /lib/systemd/systemd-udevd --daemon causes my USB mouse to no longer be recognised. Is there a clever way of getting out of this race condition and is there a way to troubleshoot it further without going into kernel debugging at this stage? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo-sources : stable versions
180626 Rich Freeman wrote: > On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 8:58 PM Philip Webb wrote: >> Does anyone know why the latest stable version of Gentoo-sources is 4.9.xx ? >> I installed 4.9.16 , which I continue to use, on 2017-04-06 . >> The tree contains versions of 4.14 4.16 4.17 , but all are still testing. > I believe that some had been complaining about stability issues with 4.14, > but personally I've been fine with it, and since I have a Ryzen CPU > I want something that has the SMT support enabled ... > I don't know what the Gentoo plans are for 4.14 - > I know they've been avoiding it for a while. > I'm not sure if they ever plan to move to it > or if they're just hoping to skip it entirely. > I think we sb getting a new longterm sometime in the next few months. Well, wonders never cease (smile) : Gentoo-sources-4.14.52 is now stable ! I've emerged it & will probably install it tomorrow. Hopefully, this will also allow me to upgrade to Nvidia-drivers-396.24-r1 . As always, my thanks to the volunteers involved. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo-sources : stable versions
On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 1:51 AM Bill Kenworthy wrote: > > I think its more complex than just falling behind - anything later gets > the spectre fixes etc. and it appears not to be quite stable yet in some > cases. This may have been your intent and I might be misreading your email, but I just wanted to make it clear that recent longterm kernels should have spectre fixes. Now, the OP's 4.9.16 obviously won't have those, but that isn't the current Gentoo stable release. The current Gentoo stable appears to be 4.9.95, which is from April, so I imagine it wouldn't have fixes for the latest spectre variant, assuming it is vulnerable. Well, that is unless it has been backported - I'm too lazy to go look at the patches. I'm sure the ~arch gentoo-sources has them at 4.9.109, but again I didn't check upstream logs. The main reason I use upstream kernels is because between previous messing around with btrfs and current use of zfs I'm a bit sensitive to what kernel I'm on and my needs aren't entirely aligned with the goals of the Gentoo kernel team. That isn't an indictment on them - the nature of a distro is to cater to the typical user, and when you're not a typical user you have to know when to deviate. The ability to do this is one of Gentoo's selling points, but when you do you're a bit on your own. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo-sources : stable versions
On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 10:41 PM Philip Webb wrote: > > 180626 Rich Freeman wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 8:58 PM Philip Webb wrote: > >> Does anyone know why the latest stable version of Gentoo-sources is 4.9.xx > >> ? > >> I installed 4.9.16 , which I continue to use, on 2017-04-06 . > >> The tree contains versions of 4.14 4.16 4.17 , but all are still testing. > > I tend to just use my own upstream kernels. I'm following the 4.14 longterm > > and generally update within a few days of any release. > > That said, I have been burned by the odd regression. > > Thanks for the other info (snipped). All Vanilla-sources are testing, > which seems to correspond to your "upstream" kernels. I use them directly from upstream: git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git They keep a branch for each longterm which makes updating easy. That said, sticking with gentoo-sources certainly won't hurt. > What does this say re recent kernel development or Gentoo's kernel team ? > -- very quick thanks as always to Gentoo's volunteer developers, > but something seems to be going astray here (smile). I don't really see many issues with the Gentoo kernel team. The choice of which longterm to follow is one that has pros and cons, and they're following 4.9 deliberately because of issues some have had with 4.14. MANY distros make decisions like this, and to some degree it seems to be encouraged by the stable upstream kernel maintainers as well who seem to view distros as another line of QA. Within a longterm I'm surprised they aren't a bit more up-to-date, but the reality is that the stable team has been issuing more than one stable release every week for a while now. That is a VERY fast cadence and I've been burned by just following this as their own regression testing seems a bit limited. If the Gentoo kernel team is taking its time to keyword these releases to do actual QA I certainly won't fault them for that, and presumably they push through security updates. None of this is really meant to cast blame on upstream either. Regression testing the kernel seems like a difficult prospect because of all the potential hardware-related issues. Maybe better software regression testing would be possible (filesystems, system calls, etc), but I think a monolithic kernel is always going to be problematic in this regard. (Even with a microkernel a failure of your IOMMU driver or something like that isn't exactly something you can gracefully contain...) -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo-sources : stable versions
On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 09:23:55 +0100, Mick wrote: > I had to revert to gentoo-sources-4.9.95 because on a Dell-XPS all > kernels on the 4.14, 4.15, 4.16 series broke bluetooth and suspend to > RAM. I have an XPS and have run all those versions, now on 4.17.2, and have had no problems with suspend to RAM, although I can't comment on bluetooth. -- Neil Bothwick The Computer is the logical advancement of humankind: intelligence without morality. pgp8osizlm6sO.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo-sources : stable versions
On Wednesday, 27 June 2018 06:51:50 BST Bill Kenworthy wrote: > I think its more complex than just falling behind - anything later gets > the spectre fixes etc. and it appears not to be quite stable yet in some > cases. I am on 4.9.95 for everything except a surface pro4 with 4.16.17 > (as stable as anything can be on those things) which needs latest. > > BillK I had to revert to gentoo-sources-4.9.95 because on a Dell-XPS all kernels on the 4.14, 4.15, 4.16 series broke bluetooth and suspend to RAM. Spectre fixes are limited on this kernel version and the latest Intel microcode is not loading. I'm also waiting for 4.9.110 to be moved to stable. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo-sources : stable versions
I think its more complex than just falling behind - anything later gets the spectre fixes etc. and it appears not to be quite stable yet in some cases. I am on 4.9.95 for everything except a surface pro4 with 4.16.17 (as stable as anything can be on those things) which needs latest. BillK On 06/27/18 10:41, Philip Webb wrote: > 180626 Rich Freeman wrote: >> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 8:58 PM Philip Webb wrote: >>> Does anyone know why the latest stable version of Gentoo-sources is 4.9.xx ? >>> I installed 4.9.16 , which I continue to use, on 2017-04-06 . >>> The tree contains versions of 4.14 4.16 4.17 , but all are still testing. >> I tend to just use my own upstream kernels. I'm following the 4.14 longterm >> and generally update within a few days of any release. >> That said, I have been burned by the odd regression. > Thanks for the other info (snipped). All Vanilla-sources are testing, > which seems to correspond to your "upstream" kernels. > > What does this say re recent kernel development or Gentoo's kernel team ? > -- very quick thanks as always to Gentoo's volunteer developers, > but something seems to be going astray here (smile). >
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo-sources : stable versions
180626 Rich Freeman wrote: > On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 8:58 PM Philip Webb wrote: >> Does anyone know why the latest stable version of Gentoo-sources is 4.9.xx ? >> I installed 4.9.16 , which I continue to use, on 2017-04-06 . >> The tree contains versions of 4.14 4.16 4.17 , but all are still testing. > I tend to just use my own upstream kernels. I'm following the 4.14 longterm > and generally update within a few days of any release. > That said, I have been burned by the odd regression. Thanks for the other info (snipped). All Vanilla-sources are testing, which seems to correspond to your "upstream" kernels. What does this say re recent kernel development or Gentoo's kernel team ? -- very quick thanks as always to Gentoo's volunteer developers, but something seems to be going astray here (smile). -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo-sources : stable versions
On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 8:58 PM Philip Webb wrote: > > Does anyone know why the latest stable version of Gentoo-sources is 4.9.xx ? > I installed 4.9.16 , which I continue to use, on 2017-04-06 . > The tree contains versions of 4.14 4.16 4.17 , but all are still testing. > I believe that some had been complaining about stability issues with 4.14, but personally I've been fine with it, and since I have a Ryzen CPU I want something that has the SMT support enabled. 4.9 is a longterm series, but the current upstream release is 4.9.110, and the Gentoo stable release is 4.9.95, so you seem to be pretty far behind. From a security standpoint a /recent/ 4.9 kernel should be fine. The gentoo patches do sometimes fix things and their curation might help you avoid some issues, but personally I tend to just use my own upstream kernels. I'm following the 4.14 longterm and generally update within a few days of any release. That said, I have been burned by the odd regression (a build last week actually was rebooting on me, which usually isn't something I have trouble with). Usually I migrate to a new longterm after it has been out for a few months, and only if it has zfs support. I don't know what the Gentoo plans are for 4.14 - I know they've been avoiding it for a while. I'm not sure if they ever plan to move to it, or if they're just hoping to skip it entirely. I think we should be getting a new longterm sometime in the next few months. -- Rich
