Re: Python, Windows, and Cygwin
Arc, Thanks for the response! Arc Riley arcri...@gmail.com writes: Why are you using Cygwin's Python? Why not? First, a disclaimer. I'm a complete newbie to both Python and Windows. So anything you know to be broken with the idea, I'm completely open to learning how to do differently :) My rationale was simply that Cygwin has a version of python new enough to suit my purposes (2.5.2), and it runs on Windows. And, it's better to have 1 version of python installed than more than one, which could possibly sow confusion amongst others who don't know better. Also, the Cygwin version of python uses a normal UNIX-style path of /usr/bin/python, which makes it simpler to run the same python programs on both UNIX and Windows, which is one of my requirements. If you think going with the native Windows version of python is better than the the Cygwin version, I'm good with that. I just need to figure out how to map the C:\Python path to something more UNIXy or, change where it gets installed. -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Python, Windows, and Cygwin
Paul Lussier wrote: Also, the Cygwin version of python uses a normal UNIX-style path of /usr/bin/python, which makes it simpler to run the same python programs on both UNIX and Windows, which is one of my requirements. If you think going with the native Windows version of python is better than the the Cygwin version, I'm good with that. I just need to figure out how to map the C:\Python path to something more UNIXy or, change where it gets installed. For what it's worth, if you just associate .py files with a Python installation in C:\Python via the standard Windows mechanism for specifying what application loads a particular extension, it doesn't matter that the path at the top of the script files is wrong. After all, Windows doesn't generally pay any attention to such things anyway. -- Walter Mundt em...@spamcop.net ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Python, Windows, and Cygwin
Thanks for the response, Walter! Walter Mundt em...@spamcop.net writes: For what it's worth, if you just associate .py files with a Python installation in C:\Python via the standard Windows mechanism for specifying what application loads a particular extension, it doesn't matter that the path at the top of the script files is wrong. After all, Windows doesn't generally pay any attention to such things anyway. You assume I have a clue to what you're talking about :) I have no idea how to do that... Also, given that I want to be able to ssh into the windows system and exec a python script directly, will that make a difference ? I'm not sure how different the cygwin environment is from the normal Windows environment. And when I ssh into the Windows system, I'm definitely under the Cygwin influence. -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Python, Windows, and Cygwin
Python downloads for windows are right on the website. Unless you have a pressing need to use the 3rd party cygwin version you should just download it from python.org If you're just starting out you should grab 3.0.1. It'll get you started right. On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Paul Lussier p.luss...@comcast.netwrote: Thanks for the response, Walter! Walter Mundt em...@spamcop.net writes: For what it's worth, if you just associate .py files with a Python installation in C:\Python via the standard Windows mechanism for specifying what application loads a particular extension, it doesn't matter that the path at the top of the script files is wrong. After all, Windows doesn't generally pay any attention to such things anyway. You assume I have a clue to what you're talking about :) I have no idea how to do that... Also, given that I want to be able to ssh into the windows system and exec a python script directly, will that make a difference ? I'm not sure how different the cygwin environment is from the normal Windows environment. And when I ssh into the Windows system, I'm definitely under the Cygwin influence. -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Python, Windows, and Cygwin
Arc Riley arcri...@gmail.com writes: Python downloads for windows are right on the website. Unless you have a pressing need to use the 3rd party cygwin version you should just download it from python.org I'm not comfortable going with 3.x yet. We have vast amounts of legacy python from 2.x which needs to work across platforms. Until I can upgrade all the Unix systems to 3.x and ensure everything will build under 3.x, I need to stick with 2.5. Can you explain to me what is different about the Cygwin version ? Why is it not the same as the Windows version ? -- Thanks, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Python, Windows, and Cygwin
On Mon, 2009-03-16 at 10:08 -0500, Paul Lussier wrote: Thanks for the response, Walter! Walter Mundt em...@spamcop.net writes: For what it's worth, if you just associate .py files with a Python installation in C:\Python via the standard Windows mechanism for specifying what application loads a particular extension, it doesn't matter that the path at the top of the script files is wrong. After all, Windows doesn't generally pay any attention to such things anyway. You assume I have a clue to what you're talking about :) http://www.dlslug.org/mailman/listinfo/python-talk The Python-Sig list will have more of the Windows Python guys than the discuss list. I think the Active-State and regular Python distributions set the Windows path and environment correctly. The win32all module was a separate download, but that may no longer be true. I am lagging behind on the Windows side (2.4). I do my development in Linux and just check test Windows. I have no idea how to do that... Also, given that I want to be able to ssh into the windows system and exec a python script directly, will that make a difference ? I'm not sure how different the cygwin environment is from the normal Windows environment. And when I ssh into the Windows system, I'm definitely under the Cygwin influence. -- Lloyd Kvam Venix Corp DLSLUG/GNHLUG library http://dlslug.org/library.html http://www.librarything.com/catalog/dlslug http://www.librarything.com/rsshtml/recent/dlslug http://www.librarything.com/rss/recent/dlslug ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Python, Windows, and Cygwin
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Paul Lussier p.luss...@comcast.net wrote: For what it's worth, if you just associate .py files with a Python installation in C:\Python via the standard Windows mechanism for specifying what application loads a particular extension ... You assume I have a clue to what you're talking about :) Windows has a mechanism where double-clicking a file will open the right program for that file extension (file type). Kind of like /etc/mime.types and /etc/mime.cap do on Unix, except it's at a lower layer in the OS on 'doze. GUI method: Open up a Windows Explorer window (My Computer will do). In the menu bar, in the Tools menu, open Folder Options. Tab File Types. CLI method: The command is ASSOC. ASSOC /? will get one started. Also, given that I want to be able to ssh into the windows system and exec a python script directly, will that make a difference ? I believe it will make a difference. I don't think Cygwin knows or cares about Windows file extension mappings. (Then again, it's been years and years since I touched Cygwin. My memory could be bad or the software could have evolved or I might have missed a feature.) Also, this Windows file association stuff *requires* your Python scripts to end in .py. If you've got scripts that don't end in .py and want them to still work, it won't unless your Cygwin Unix-ish paths are happy. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Python, Windows, and Cygwin
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Paul Lussier p.luss...@comcast.net wrote: Why are you using Cygwin's Python? Why not? Because the Latest Release is Always Better(TM)! We all know that, right? ;-) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Python, Windows, and Cygwin
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Ben Scott dragonh...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Paul Lussier p.luss...@comcast.net wrote: Why are you using Cygwin's Python? Why not? Because the Latest Release is Always Better(TM)! We all know that, right? ;-) Re Py3, the issue at hand is that the community has been planning Py3 for years and has agreed to move to it. This migration is like a slinky, and hard to see from the surface, but we're really in a state where projects that don't migrate are replaced with newer projects with the same functionality. Any new Python-based projects should be Py3 based. It's self-defeating to do anything else. Any new Python programmers should learn Py3 to start with so they don't have to unlearn the poor programming practices that are no longer supported in Py3. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Python, Windows, and Cygwin
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:54:19 -0400 From: Arc Riley arcri...@gmail.com On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Ben Scott dragonh...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Paul Lussier p.luss...@comcast.net wrote: Why are you using Cygwin's Python? Why not? Because the Latest Release is Always Better(TM)! We all know that, right? ;-) Re Py3, the issue at hand is that the community has been planning Py3 for years and has agreed to move to it. This migration is like a slinky, and And by what authority do you claim to know the will of the community? Any new Python-based projects should be Py3 based. It's self-defeating to do anything else. Of course your way is the only way. (I already knew that...) Any new Python programmers should learn Py3 to start with so they don't have to unlearn the poor programming practices that are no longer supported in Py3. Wouldn't it have been easier to just have said Python 2.x has been officially deprecated?? (compared to a slinky...???) ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Python, Windows, and Cygwin
virgins...@vfemail.net writes: Re Py3, the issue at hand is that the community has been planning Py3 for years and has agreed to move to it. This migration is like a slinky, and And by what authority do you claim to know the will of the community? Any new Python-based projects should be Py3 based. It's self-defeating to do anything else. Of course your way is the only way. (I already knew that...) Any new Python programmers should learn Py3 to start with so they don't have to unlearn the poor programming practices that are no longer supported in Py3. I'm not sure why you have a problem with what Arc said. I found no problem with it at all. It's entirely consistent with the way open source frameworks have been developed for years. When Perl4 was mainstream and Perl5 was release, it was often recommended that new people learn Perl5 over Perl4 for exactly the reasons Arc cited. I also don't believe he was espousing his way either, rather making a suggestion based on the current state of the language. -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Python, Windows, and Cygwin
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 3:41 PM, virgins...@vfemail.net wrote: And by what authority do you claim to know the will of the community? Unless you're involved in the Python community under yet another monkier, why the hell are you even replying on this thread, much less arguing against me re: Py3? Do you even know anything about the Python 3000 community process? Anything at all? No, I didn't think so. Stop trolling. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Python, Windows, and Cygwin
Arc Riley wrote: Any new Python-based projects should be Py3 based. It's self-defeating to do anything else. I'd be concerned about pushing new projects into yet unproven territory. As great as Python 3 is, there's still lots to be done. Still a lot of libraries that need to be updated to support 2.x and 3.x. When you're trying to get work done, of if you're trying to introduce people to the pleasure that is Python, it doesn't help when you keep hitting walls because a library you absolutely, positively must have is not yet ported. There's lots of excitement about Python 3 and, I think, a fair groundswell aimed at supporting it. I feel confident this transition will take place as Python 3 continues to mature. However, proposing that everyone should be out at the far head of the curve is, I think, a good way to sour people on the experience when they need to get work done today. --Ray ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Python, Windows, and Cygwin
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Raymond Cote rgac...@appropriatesolutions.com wrote: I'd be concerned about pushing new projects into yet unproven territory. Let's be clear here, Py3 isn't new territory. Python 3.0.0 was in alpha/beta for a long time and was released only after it was significantly bugfixed. 3.0.1 was released not so long ago with a few remaining bug fixes that were found only after release. I've been banging Py3 pretty hard and have found it to be rock solid. As great as Python 3 is, there's still lots to be done. Still a lot of libraries that need to be updated to support 2.x and 3.x. That's true, and if you're learning Python to work with Django then Py2 is the way to go. WSGI is ported to Py3 but it's going to be a bit before the big frameworks to port. They may be obsoleted by brand new Py3-only frameworks before they do. However, most things are dead simple. Take for example our case with Concordance - we needed Genshi and SQLAlchemy, neither of which were officially ported to Py3 yet. Genshi took a part of one afternoon to port ( http://hg.concordance-xmpp.org/genshi-py3), much of which was setting up the SVN-Mercurial mirroring and branches such that tracking Trunk was easy. SQLAlchemy was trivial (basically just 2to3). If we weren't developing for Py3 I wouldn't have needed it, and thus wouldn't have contributed the time to this. Things get upgraded to Py3 as there's demand, and the demand won't exist until people choose to use Py3. If everyone in the community developed a follower role Python would never move forward as a language. However, proposing that everyone should be out at the far head of the curve is, I think, a good way to sour people on the experience when they need to get work done today. In Paul's case, where it's learning to get specific tasks done, sure. But when someone's learning because they want to learn a new language, why should they learn the old version of that language instead of starting off in the newest? I find Py3 exciting, not souring. There's opportunities to contribute everywhere! I put a few hours in to port a package, and presto, I've made a serious contribution to the community. You need something that's only in Py2, port it or replace it! It's not like it takes a great deal of skill or knowledge to do this work, and after doing so new users get the I did that reward. That's feeling of ownership is what drives the free software community. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Python, Windows, and Cygwin
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:13:11 -0400 From: Arc Riley arcri...@gmail.com Unless you're involved in the Python community under yet another monkier, why the hell are you even replying on this thread, much less arguing against me re: Py3? Simply stated, I'm tired of listening to your claims about what *other* people think, believe, want, c. Whether it's the Ubuntu community, the Linux User community, or (now) the Python community... Arc Riley always seems to be the expert on what other people think! Speak for yourself. I happen to be a Python programmer. But I don't recall ever electing you to be my spokesman. Do you even know anything about the Python 3000 community process? Anything at all? No, I didn't think so. Stop trolling. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Python, Windows, and Cygwin
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 6:37 PM, virgins...@vfemail.net wrote: Simply stated, I'm tired of listening to your claims about what *other* people think, believe, want, c. And simply stated, I'm tired of your trolling. Why Ben/etc continue to tolerate you on these lists I cannot fathom. If this was a software project we'd have booted you a long time ago, your involvement is a net loss for the group and there shows no signs that you're willing to improve. In what way do you seriously contribute to the Python community? Or to any community really? The first time I met you, you were trying to convince us to lobby your town government because you cause so many problems they wouldn't listen to you anymore. Trying to convince us that getting CD burners into your local town hall or library should be a priority for Ubuntu's NH LoCo as I recall, and then being upset when everyone ignored your rallying. If the people in your hometown don't tolerate you why should GNHLUG continue to? ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
