Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[maccrawj]

Good tip Gary! Assumed M$ would never smarten up so I've been getting by using the 
last free version of HP. Glad I did not switch to the newer paid version of 'popper 
even more now!


Now if Y! would catch up with everyone else...


Gary VanderMolen wrote:

Why use HotPopper? Free Hotmail accounts have had POP access since
about February. See

http://mailcall.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!CC9301187A51FE33!49799.entry

I recommend you use port 587 rather than port 25 for the SMTP server.

Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail)


--
From: "maccrawj" 
Duh, I've said I do as much as that in past posts! I even use 
HotPopper to do my aged hotmail account while dumping Yahoo for 
preventing similar hacks. 

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Gary VanderMolen]

Why use HotPopper? Free Hotmail accounts have had POP access since
about February. See

http://mailcall.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!CC9301187A51FE33!49799.entry

I recommend you use port 587 rather than port 25 for the SMTP server.

Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail)


--
From: "maccrawj" 
Duh, I've said I do as much as that in past posts! I even use HotPopper to do my aged hotmail account while dumping Yahoo for 
preventing similar hacks. 

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[maccrawj]

1) Yes it is, if a browser is vulnerable code in the email could be run. There have 
been more than a few script viruses/malware that hit Yahoo where only reading the 
email content was needed for the script to run.


4) that's a stand alone client.

Brian Weeden wrote:

Okay, time to debunk a couple of things that have come up in this thread.

1) "webmail is vulnerable to hacks" - Well, not really.  All of the email
preview-pane or attachment auto attacks I've heard about only affect Outlook
and do not affect gmail.  Sure, if you execute a bad attachment you're going
to get infected no matter what but Outlook is way more vulnerable here.

2) "can't backup Gmail" - Well that's just not true.  If you want, you can
just access it through Outlook or Thunderbird via POP and download
everything.  Or you can use a backup client like MailStore:
www.mailstore.com

3) "webmail is slower" Not sure where this comes from.  I've got 40,000+
messages in my gmail acccount, all searchable on the fly much, much faster
than using the backup set I have in Thunderbrd on my desktop.  Plus, you
never have to worry about running out of mailbox space.  That's a huge plus
if you've ever worked in a corporate setting where they put tiny caps like
200mb on mailbox sizes.  Then you are forced to move your stuff to offline
mailboxes which makes you vulnerable to crashes.

4) "I must be online to access my email" - Used to be true, but not since
Google released offline Gmail a few months ago.  Just install Google Gears,
enable offline Gmail, and presto.  So you can download then go offline and
do whatever.

5) "Google has all your data and can do evil things"  - sure they have your
data but that isn't any different than your ISP which has it all anyways.
And there are a lot more ways (and incentives) your ISP can screw you over
than Google.  For me, this is unavoidable and I'm a fairly paranoid kind of
guy (run Truecrypt on my machines, use VPNs to connect when traveling, etc).

6) "problems syncing with mobile devices" - My iPhone syncs beaufiully with
my Google contacts, calendar and email.  No issues there.

Honestly, I think this is a case of people bringing ether pre-conceived
notions or "old fuddy" syndrome.  You know, like "Back in my day, a car was
something you could take apart and fix yourself" or "I don't trust this
new-fangled thingie".  And that's fine - everyone is free to make their own
choices and rationalize it however they want.  But please, make sure you
separate the facts from the opinions so others can make their own decisions.

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation 
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[tmservo]

We have one client that is constantly monitered by the fed.  Fbi agents there, 
treasury dept officials at their gates (secret service),  forget webmail, their 
employees can't oen cell phones with cameras. 














(Guessed what they do?  Finalize poker chips for casino chain)


Sent via BlackBerry 

-Original Message-
From: FORC5 

Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 16:44:11 
To: 
Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way?


they do not have my contact list (address book) and is my customer who works 
for the Gov is not allowed to do online mail. Well only one customer who was a 
consultant for the Pentagon. When AOL went web based only he freaked big time 
but was glad I finally got him away from AOL. :-) of course AOL is a whole 
other problem for sure. 

At 04:25 PM 6/7/2009, Brian Weeden Poked the stick with:
>5) "Google has all your data and can do evil things"  - sure they have your
>data but that isn't any different than your ISP which has it all anyways.
>And there are a lot more ways (and incentives) your ISP can screw you over
>than Google.  For me, this is unavoidable and I'm a fairly paranoid kind of
>guy (run Truecrypt on my machines, use VPNs to connect when traveling, etc).
>
>6) "problems syncing with mobile devices" - My iPhone syncs beaufiully with
>my Google contacts, calendar and email.  No issues there.

what's wrong with old fuddies ? Most of them were the great generation. :-D

>Honestly, I think this is a case of people bringing ether pre-conceived
>notions or "old fuddy" syndrome.  You know, like "Back in my day, a car was
>something you could take apart and fix yourself" or "I don't trust this
>new-fangled thingie".  And that's fine - everyone is free to make their own
>choices and rationalize it however they want.  But please, make sure you


BTW why would anyone have 40,000 emails ? 
Guess I am a old fuddy duddy 
fp


-- 
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Murphy's Law: If anything can go wrong, it will.

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[FORC5]

they do not have my contact list (address book) and is my customer who works 
for the Gov is not allowed to do online mail. Well only one customer who was a 
consultant for the Pentagon. When AOL went web based only he freaked big time 
but was glad I finally got him away from AOL. :-) of course AOL is a whole 
other problem for sure. 

At 04:25 PM 6/7/2009, Brian Weeden Poked the stick with:
>5) "Google has all your data and can do evil things"  - sure they have your
>data but that isn't any different than your ISP which has it all anyways.
>And there are a lot more ways (and incentives) your ISP can screw you over
>than Google.  For me, this is unavoidable and I'm a fairly paranoid kind of
>guy (run Truecrypt on my machines, use VPNs to connect when traveling, etc).
>
>6) "problems syncing with mobile devices" - My iPhone syncs beaufiully with
>my Google contacts, calendar and email.  No issues there.

what's wrong with old fuddies ? Most of them were the great generation. :-D

>Honestly, I think this is a case of people bringing ether pre-conceived
>notions or "old fuddy" syndrome.  You know, like "Back in my day, a car was
>something you could take apart and fix yourself" or "I don't trust this
>new-fangled thingie".  And that's fine - everyone is free to make their own
>choices and rationalize it however they want.  But please, make sure you


BTW why would anyone have 40,000 emails ? 
Guess I am a old fuddy duddy 
fp


-- 
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Murphy's Law: If anything can go wrong, it will.

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Brian Weeden]

Your ISP might be now but several are and it's only a matter of time before
they all are.  Ever heard of Phorm?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phorm

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation 
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US


On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 7:50 PM, Bryan Seitz  wrote:

> > 5) "Google has all your data and can do evil things"  - sure they have
> your
> > data but that isn't any different than your ISP which has it all anyways.
> > And there are a lot more ways (and incentives) your ISP can screw you
> over
> > than Google.  For me, this is unavoidable and I'm a fairly paranoid kind
> of
> > guy (run Truecrypt on my machines, use VPNs to connect when traveling,
> etc).
>
> See but my ISP isn't searching for stats, keywords, geographic data, etc...
> Google is.  Google indexes .* for a reason, and it's not to provide you
> with
> great service.  Nuff said.
>
> --
>
> Bryan G. Seitz
>

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Bryan Seitz]

> 5) "Google has all your data and can do evil things"  - sure they have your
> data but that isn't any different than your ISP which has it all anyways.
> And there are a lot more ways (and incentives) your ISP can screw you over
> than Google.  For me, this is unavoidable and I'm a fairly paranoid kind of
> guy (run Truecrypt on my machines, use VPNs to connect when traveling, etc).

See but my ISP isn't searching for stats, keywords, geographic data, etc...
Google is.  Google indexes .* for a reason, and it's not to provide you with
great service.  Nuff said.

-- 
 
Bryan G. Seitz

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Brian Weeden]

Okay, time to debunk a couple of things that have come up in this thread.

1) "webmail is vulnerable to hacks" - Well, not really.  All of the email
preview-pane or attachment auto attacks I've heard about only affect Outlook
and do not affect gmail.  Sure, if you execute a bad attachment you're going
to get infected no matter what but Outlook is way more vulnerable here.

2) "can't backup Gmail" - Well that's just not true.  If you want, you can
just access it through Outlook or Thunderbird via POP and download
everything.  Or you can use a backup client like MailStore:
www.mailstore.com

3) "webmail is slower" Not sure where this comes from.  I've got 40,000+
messages in my gmail acccount, all searchable on the fly much, much faster
than using the backup set I have in Thunderbrd on my desktop.  Plus, you
never have to worry about running out of mailbox space.  That's a huge plus
if you've ever worked in a corporate setting where they put tiny caps like
200mb on mailbox sizes.  Then you are forced to move your stuff to offline
mailboxes which makes you vulnerable to crashes.

4) "I must be online to access my email" - Used to be true, but not since
Google released offline Gmail a few months ago.  Just install Google Gears,
enable offline Gmail, and presto.  So you can download then go offline and
do whatever.

5) "Google has all your data and can do evil things"  - sure they have your
data but that isn't any different than your ISP which has it all anyways.
And there are a lot more ways (and incentives) your ISP can screw you over
than Google.  For me, this is unavoidable and I'm a fairly paranoid kind of
guy (run Truecrypt on my machines, use VPNs to connect when traveling, etc).

6) "problems syncing with mobile devices" - My iPhone syncs beaufiully with
my Google contacts, calendar and email.  No issues there.

Honestly, I think this is a case of people bringing ether pre-conceived
notions or "old fuddy" syndrome.  You know, like "Back in my day, a car was
something you could take apart and fix yourself" or "I don't trust this
new-fangled thingie".  And that's fine - everyone is free to make their own
choices and rationalize it however they want.  But please, make sure you
separate the facts from the opinions so others can make their own decisions.

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation 
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[maccrawj]

Duh, I've said I do as much as that in past posts! I even use HotPopper to do my aged 
hotmail account while dumping Yahoo for preventing similar hacks.


Point was retorting the "..why.. use.. stand alone email client" side of the 
argument.


z00...@gmail.com wrote:

Umm. Gmail fully supports pop3 and imap so you can download and never use the 
web client. :-)
--Original Message--
From: maccrawj
Sender: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
ReplyTo: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Sent: Jun 7, 2009 9:14 PM

Because I don't like browsing on-the-fly for email when I can just download it & be 
off the net?


Because browsing email in a HTML client is asking for exploit no matter how they 
claim to sanitize it?


Those two reason are enough IMHO.


Brian Weeden wrote:

Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other stand
alone email client.





Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device from Aljawal

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[z00100]

Umm. Gmail fully supports pop3 and imap so you can download and never use the 
web client. :-)
--Original Message--
From: maccrawj
Sender: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
ReplyTo: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Sent: Jun 7, 2009 9:14 PM

Because I don't like browsing on-the-fly for email when I can just download it 
& be 
off the net?

Because browsing email in a HTML client is asking for exploit no matter how 
they 
claim to sanitize it?

Those two reason are enough IMHO.


Brian Weeden wrote:
> Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other stand
> alone email client.
> 



Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device from Aljawal

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[maccrawj]

Because I don't like browsing on-the-fly for email when I can just download it & be 
off the net?


Because browsing email in a HTML client is asking for exploit no matter how they 
claim to sanitize it?


Those two reason are enough IMHO.


Brian Weeden wrote:

Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other stand
alone email client.

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[maccrawj]

I'll second that, exactly what I followed!

Scott Sipe wrote:
Not to change the topic, but if you do decide to switch to gmail (which, 
I might add, gives you the freedom to change ISPs without worrying about 
losing your email address!) they have very nice instructions for how to 
setup thunderbird:


http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=86399

Scott

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[maccrawj]

AT&T DSL maybe but not Verizon. The issue here is more that they use Yahoo for their 
email services.


I got real tired, real quick, talking to Punjab in India when my Verizon DSL went 
offline. Bad enough I am talking offshore for support, about a modem who's 
manufacturer insists only Verizon does support for, but he/she did not even know that 
the undocumented flashing code was no code but rather indicated modem so dead even 
diagnostics weren't running thus would not take my diagnosis of dead even after I had 
swapped my neighbors modem onto our line fine getting service no problem.


We were down a week, I ended up doing all the work for them including figuring out 
how to test the setup, and had to force them into ordering of replacement modem when 
a spare worked.  They finally said "it's the modem" of course than claimed to have 
diagnosed it as such but truth was when I pushed them to allowing me to order a modem 
they simply changed my ticket status to "solved by replacing dead modem" as if a tech 
had been here & tested anything while quietly canceling the home visit I waited for 
all the next day at their insistence that a home call was needed & would occur. Never 
again will I deal with them & would have already dropped our voice line also if I 
could get our little mountain town phone number ported to a VOIP service.


Luckily our local cable is an independent and has also seen the light of the 21st 
century removing the 20GB/mo cap & upping speeds from 3mb to 9Mb on way to 15Mb+ 
within a year as they pour money into their system revamping & expanding (finally). 
About same price as DSL, 3x the speed, and local (literally) tech support too boot.



Only corporate types should ever be forced to use Outlook and even they should have 
broken free of MS Exhange a long time ago.



Gary VanderMolen wrote:

In my experience, moving to cable from AT&T DSL is probably worse
as far as tech support.

Mail clients often have very helpful user groups. I can't speak for
Thunderbird or Eudora, but peer support for Outlook Express, Windows
Mail and Windows Live Mail is especially strong.

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Greg Sevart]

The specific client is very important with regard to searching. For example,
with Outlook 2007 index-based search (using Windows Desktop Search as the
engine), I can search through a 10+GB mailbox in a couple seconds--including
filters. 

To me, webmail is only useful when on the go...and with my mobile devices
now syncing e-mail, I find even that fairly pointless. Ironically, the only
webmail that I've found that is as nice, fully featured, and fast as a full
client isExchange's OWA.


> -Original Message-
> From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-
> boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Scott Sipe
> Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 4:57 PM
> To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
> Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
> 
> Disclaimer: I'm writing this from OSX Mail.app.
> 
> In general I still prefer offline mail readers. Gmail+IMAP integrates
> perfectly with mail.app, so my gmail recipes+tags and everything work
> perfectly in conjunction with offline reading.
> 
> HOWEVER... I might take issue with the "far faster" statement. At work
> a number of people have THunderbird mailboxes that probably in all
> exceed 3-4GB. (say 4-5 years of email). When searching for an email
> from "a couple of years ago" or even doing a full body message search
> of the last 6-12 months, it can take a long time! Mail.app has much
> better indexing and is faster than that, but compared to gmail where
> you can literally instantly search tens--probably hundreds--of
> thousands of messages? That's hard to beat...
> 
> Scott
> 
> On Jun 6, 2009, at 5:48 PM, Neil Davidson wrote:
> 
> > Far faster and far more features. Offline email handling isn't
> exactly
> > possible with web based email either.
> >
> > Backup of your email is something a bit difficult to do as well.
> > Especially
> > with Gmail.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
> > [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Brian Weeden
> > Sent: 06 June 2009 12:11
> > To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
> > Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
> >
> > Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any
> > other stand
> > alone email client.
> >
> >

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[FORC5]

occasionally Eudora inbound is slow or hangs on program startup, almost like 
Eudora opens and tries to connect b4 it is actually connected to the server. re 
try after open and it usually is OK. Did have to change the port .(outboound)
one account I have to check authentication allowed, the others I do not. go 
figure.
Eudora 7

No problems with Tbird and Eset at all. (eset 3.0.684)

fred

At 03:33 PM 6/6/2009, DSinc Poked the stick with:
>I have tried to decode/transfer my current TBird settings to Eudora (v5.1.1) 
>and now am trying to debug Eudora. Eudora is still doing a major DELAY getting 
>new INBOUND msgs. But, it does seem to SEND new mail FINE. I do suspect this 
>may be the new "SSL" requirement.  So, perhaps my Eudora is just too OLD to 
>play "SSL" properly..
>I can deal with this.
>
>To wrap-up:
>Current Eudora does not seem to play nice with new settings(?)
>I believe that the current Mozilla Thunderbird does not like my use of ESET 
>for 'outbound' email scanning. I know, it seems stupid to do outbound email 
>scanning. I do somehow agree; but that is the default. I run as mostly default 
>here as I can!  Much less grief. I do not have to remember all my "tweaks."  
>Tests later tonight to follow. :)

-- 
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Old Grandad is dead, but his spirit lives on.

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[DSinc]

All,
Can I please this very divergent opinion-fest to a close. I did suspect 
my question to cause this. I seem to be gifted with this. I'm not nearly 
as bright or well-connected as the List seems to be.
I have done what Neil told me to do. I now know that I have an ESET 
glitch with Thunderbird I need to decide about.

I do know how to test this after I go cut the grass! Like, later tonight!

I seriously appreciate all the comments received. All these replies 
managed to get ThunderBird working. Almost.


I have tried to decode/transfer my current TBird settings to Eudora 
(v5.1.1) and now am trying to debug Eudora. Eudora is still doing a 
major DELAY getting new INBOUND msgs. But, it does seem to SEND new mail 
FINE. I do suspect this may be the new "SSL" requirement.  So, perhaps 
my Eudora is just too OLD to play "SSL" properly..

I can deal with this.

To wrap-up:
Current Eudora does not seem to play nice with new settings(?)
I believe that the current Mozilla Thunderbird does not like my use of 
ESET for 'outbound' email scanning. I know, it seems stupid to do 
outbound email scanning. I do somehow agree; but that is the default. I 
run as mostly default here as I can!  Much less grief. I do not have to 
remember all my "tweaks."  Tests later tonight to follow. :)


Thank you for all your opinions. Understand your personal choices. Even 
can fully comprehend some of your choices

I do not do Cell Phone.
I do not do HDTV.
I do not have cable anything.
I do not have an HTPC/HDPC/H?PC/Game console.

Thank you again. I will raise another thread when I can formulate an 
appropriate question.

Best,
Duncan


Scott Sipe wrote:

Disclaimer: I'm writing this from OSX Mail.app.

In general I still prefer offline mail readers. Gmail+IMAP integrates 
perfectly with mail.app, so my gmail recipes+tags and everything work 
perfectly in conjunction with offline reading.


HOWEVER... I might take issue with the "far faster" statement. At work a 
number of people have THunderbird mailboxes that probably in all exceed 
3-4GB. (say 4-5 years of email). When searching for an email from "a 
couple of years ago" or even doing a full body message search of the 
last 6-12 months, it can take a long time! Mail.app has much better 
indexing and is faster than that, but compared to gmail where you can 
literally instantly search tens--probably hundreds--of thousands of 
messages? That's hard to beat...


Scott

On Jun 6, 2009, at 5:48 PM, Neil Davidson wrote:


Far faster and far more features. Offline email handling isn't exactly
possible with web based email either.

Backup of your email is something a bit difficult to do as well. 
Especially

with Gmail.

-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
[mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Brian Weeden
Sent: 06 June 2009 12:11
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other 
stand

alone email client.

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Scott Sipe]

Disclaimer: I'm writing this from OSX Mail.app.

In general I still prefer offline mail readers. Gmail+IMAP integrates  
perfectly with mail.app, so my gmail recipes+tags and everything work  
perfectly in conjunction with offline reading.


HOWEVER... I might take issue with the "far faster" statement. At work  
a number of people have THunderbird mailboxes that probably in all  
exceed 3-4GB. (say 4-5 years of email). When searching for an email  
from "a couple of years ago" or even doing a full body message search  
of the last 6-12 months, it can take a long time! Mail.app has much  
better indexing and is faster than that, but compared to gmail where  
you can literally instantly search tens--probably hundreds--of  
thousands of messages? That's hard to beat...


Scott

On Jun 6, 2009, at 5:48 PM, Neil Davidson wrote:


Far faster and far more features. Offline email handling isn't exactly
possible with web based email either.

Backup of your email is something a bit difficult to do as well.  
Especially

with Gmail.

-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
[mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Brian Weeden
Sent: 06 June 2009 12:11
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any  
other stand

alone email client.

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Neil Davidson]

Far faster and far more features. Offline email handling isn't exactly
possible with web based email either.

Backup of your email is something a bit difficult to do as well. Especially
with Gmail.

-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
[mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Brian Weeden
Sent: 06 June 2009 12:11
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other stand
alone email client.

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Gary VanderMolen]

Likewise, I find web-based mail unbearably slow when compared to the
snappiness of desktop mail clients.

As for the touted portability of webmail, I seldom travel, but when I do,
I bring my laptop along.

Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail)

--
From: "Gary Jackson" 


 But for *me*  I don't like web based email clients, I find them slow, clunky and I rarely use them. 

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Gary Jackson]

 Well, everyone has their preferred way of doing things.  I like 
Exchange/Outlook the best for me ( currently working to put together a 
server to host my own domain at home ).  At my last job, I was a 
Domino/Notes Admin ( along with being A network Admin ) and while I think 
Outlook works better then Notes as an email client, Notes does bring some 
interesting groupware capacity to the dance.  But for *me*  I don't like 
web based email clients, I find them slow, clunky and I rarely use them.


Regards,

Gary

At 06:11 AM 6/6/2009, It was written by Brian Weeden that this shall come 
to pass:

Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other stand
alone email client.

---
Brian

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 9:32 PM, FORC5  wrote:

> Hope not
>
> fp
>
> At 05:50 PM 6/5/2009, Winterlight Poked the stick with:
> >At 03:25 PM 6/5/2009, you wrote:
> >>Email has had to evolve over the years. What worked 5 years ago
> >>may not work today. AT&T/Yahoo has been shifting over to newer
> >>servers that require SSL and high-numbered ports (465/995).
> >>They are not alone. Comcast has gradually been dropping all support
> >>for port 25 SMTP. These changes in email standards are being
> >>mandated by the newer RFCs and the ever increasing onslaught of
> >>spammers and phishers.
> >
> >I think that it is just a matter of time until we all have to use online
> web interface email unless you are using something like Outlook tied into
> Hotmail.
> >
>
> --
> Tallyho ! ]:8)
> Taglines below !
> --
> One day I'm a windshield, the next day a bug thereon.
>
>

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Brian Weeden]

You do realize that it's already there, right?  Unless you are using PGP for
every email, they are flying around open text on the internet and bouncing
from mail server to mail server.  We're just sending postcards around,
trusting that the post office employees (or anyone else watching the stream)
don't read them.

The only way to not have personal info on the net is to never use the
internet in the first place.

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation 
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US


On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 8:29 AM, FORC5  wrote:

> and I do not understand why anyone would want their personal info on
> someone else's server. not in this day and age.
> fp
>
> At 04:11 AM 6/6/2009, Brian Weeden Poked the stick with:
> >Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other
> stand
> >alone email client.
> >
> >---
> >Brian
> >
> >On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 9:32 PM, FORC5  wrote:
> >
> >> Hope not
> >>
> >> fp
> >>
> >> At 05:50 PM 6/5/2009, Winterlight Poked the stick with:
> >> >At 03:25 PM 6/5/2009, you wrote:
> >> >>Email has had to evolve over the years. What worked 5 years ago
> >> >>may not work today. AT&T/Yahoo has been shifting over to newer
> >> >>servers that require SSL and high-numbered ports (465/995).
> >> >>They are not alone. Comcast has gradually been dropping all support
> >> >>for port 25 SMTP. These changes in email standards are being
> >> >>mandated by the newer RFCs and the ever increasing onslaught of
> >> >>spammers and phishers.
> >> >
> >> >I think that it is just a matter of time until we all have to use
> online
> >> web interface email unless you are using something like Outlook tied
> into
> >> Hotmail.
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> Tallyho ! ]:8)
> >> Taglines below !
> >> --
> >> One day I'm a windshield, the next day a bug thereon.
> >>
> >>
>
> --
> Tallyho ! ]:8)
> Taglines below !
> --
> The problem of the day is: improperly oriented keyboard
>
>

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Brian Weeden]

You do realize that it's already there, right?  Unless you are using PGP for
every email, they are flying around open text on the internet and bouncing
from mail server to mail server.  We're just sending postcards around,
trusting that the post office employees (or anyone else watching the stream)
don't read them.

The only way to not have personal info on the net is to never use the
internet in the first place.

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation 
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US


On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 8:29 AM, FORC5  wrote:

> and I do not understand why anyone would want their personal info on
> someone else's server. not in this day and age.
> fp
>
> At 04:11 AM 6/6/2009, Brian Weeden Poked the stick with:
> >Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other
> stand
> >alone email client.
> >
> >---
> >Brian
> >
> >On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 9:32 PM, FORC5  wrote:
> >
> >> Hope not
> >>
> >> fp
> >>
> >> At 05:50 PM 6/5/2009, Winterlight Poked the stick with:
> >> >At 03:25 PM 6/5/2009, you wrote:
> >> >>Email has had to evolve over the years. What worked 5 years ago
> >> >>may not work today. AT&T/Yahoo has been shifting over to newer
> >> >>servers that require SSL and high-numbered ports (465/995).
> >> >>They are not alone. Comcast has gradually been dropping all support
> >> >>for port 25 SMTP. These changes in email standards are being
> >> >>mandated by the newer RFCs and the ever increasing onslaught of
> >> >>spammers and phishers.
> >> >
> >> >I think that it is just a matter of time until we all have to use
> online
> >> web interface email unless you are using something like Outlook tied
> into
> >> Hotmail.
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> Tallyho ! ]:8)
> >> Taglines below !
> >> --
> >> One day I'm a windshield, the next day a bug thereon.
> >>
> >>
>
> --
> Tallyho ! ]:8)
> Taglines below !
> --
> The problem of the day is: improperly oriented keyboard
>
>

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[FORC5]

and I do not understand why anyone would want their personal info on someone 
else's server. not in this day and age. 
fp

At 04:11 AM 6/6/2009, Brian Weeden Poked the stick with:
>Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other stand
>alone email client.
>
>---
>Brian
>
>On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 9:32 PM, FORC5  wrote:
>
>> Hope not
>>
>> fp
>>
>> At 05:50 PM 6/5/2009, Winterlight Poked the stick with:
>> >At 03:25 PM 6/5/2009, you wrote:
>> >>Email has had to evolve over the years. What worked 5 years ago
>> >>may not work today. AT&T/Yahoo has been shifting over to newer
>> >>servers that require SSL and high-numbered ports (465/995).
>> >>They are not alone. Comcast has gradually been dropping all support
>> >>for port 25 SMTP. These changes in email standards are being
>> >>mandated by the newer RFCs and the ever increasing onslaught of
>> >>spammers and phishers.
>> >
>> >I think that it is just a matter of time until we all have to use online
>> web interface email unless you are using something like Outlook tied into
>> Hotmail.
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Tallyho ! ]:8)
>> Taglines below !
>> --
>> One day I'm a windshield, the next day a bug thereon.
>>
>>

-- 
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
The problem of the day is: improperly oriented keyboard

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Brian Weeden]

Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other stand
alone email client.

---
Brian

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 9:32 PM, FORC5  wrote:

> Hope not
>
> fp
>
> At 05:50 PM 6/5/2009, Winterlight Poked the stick with:
> >At 03:25 PM 6/5/2009, you wrote:
> >>Email has had to evolve over the years. What worked 5 years ago
> >>may not work today. AT&T/Yahoo has been shifting over to newer
> >>servers that require SSL and high-numbered ports (465/995).
> >>They are not alone. Comcast has gradually been dropping all support
> >>for port 25 SMTP. These changes in email standards are being
> >>mandated by the newer RFCs and the ever increasing onslaught of
> >>spammers and phishers.
> >
> >I think that it is just a matter of time until we all have to use online
> web interface email unless you are using something like Outlook tied into
> Hotmail.
> >
>
> --
> Tallyho ! ]:8)
> Taglines below !
> --
> One day I'm a windshield, the next day a bug thereon.
>
>

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[FORC5]

Hope not

fp

At 05:50 PM 6/5/2009, Winterlight Poked the stick with:
>At 03:25 PM 6/5/2009, you wrote:
>>Email has had to evolve over the years. What worked 5 years ago
>>may not work today. AT&T/Yahoo has been shifting over to newer
>>servers that require SSL and high-numbered ports (465/995).
>>They are not alone. Comcast has gradually been dropping all support
>>for port 25 SMTP. These changes in email standards are being
>>mandated by the newer RFCs and the ever increasing onslaught of
>>spammers and phishers.
>
>I think that it is just a matter of time until we all have to use online web 
>interface email unless you are using something like Outlook tied into Hotmail.
>

-- 
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
One day I'm a windshield, the next day a bug thereon.

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Winterlight]

At 03:25 PM 6/5/2009, you wrote:

Email has had to evolve over the years. What worked 5 years ago
may not work today. AT&T/Yahoo has been shifting over to newer
servers that require SSL and high-numbered ports (465/995).
They are not alone. Comcast has gradually been dropping all support
for port 25 SMTP. These changes in email standards are being
mandated by the newer RFCs and the ever increasing onslaught of
spammers and phishers.


I think that it is just a matter of time until we all have to use 
online web interface email unless you are using something like 
Outlook tied into Hotmail.

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Gary VanderMolen]

Email has had to evolve over the years. What worked 5 years ago
may not work today. AT&T/Yahoo has been shifting over to newer
servers that require SSL and high-numbered ports (465/995).
They are not alone. Comcast has gradually been dropping all support
for port 25 SMTP. These changes in email standards are being
mandated by the newer RFCs and the ever increasing onslaught of
spammers and phishers.

I suggested a test with OE only for the purpose of trying to narrow
down where the problem is, server-side or client-side. Until you
know for sure, you'd be stabbing in the dark.
Incidentally, I come from the sbcglobal.net side of AT&T's house,
and am very familiar with the recent changes.

Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail)

--
I can certainly appreciate your focus. But, perhaps, somehow you are not seeing the grief many of us "new2ATT.net" folks now see 
now that ATT seems to use Yahoo as their "mail service provider."


Yes, I do understand a trial of OE. It is part of XP. I fully expect it to work perfectly; just because it is a MS product. No 
different than using some flavor of Outlook which ATT fully supports and has told me to use. I suppose that since I only spend 
~$1020/yr for ATT's 2-wire CU services for phone and dsl, I do not have much of a voice. Fair call.


Additionally, after some 7 hours on the Mozilla/ThunderBird forums (thanks Neil!), I find that this recent ATT change of "mail 
service provider" has caused the same troubles with users of PACBELL.net, SBCglobal.net, and, now with BellSouth.net (me). The 
consensus within the TBird community is that ATT has REQUIRED new POP and SMTP settings that for some reason ATT servers do not 
play nice with (yet?).  Like the SSL business. I have some workarounds. For the most part, I am now working. All I need to fix 
now is sending attachments outbound.  This could be my ESET A/V, and, I know how to test this; but, I still have more study to 
do. 

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Scott Sipe]

Not to change the topic, but if you do decide to switch to gmail  
(which, I might add, gives you the freedom to change ISPs without  
worrying about losing your email address!) they have very nice  
instructions for how to setup thunderbird:


http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=86399

Scott

On Jun 5, 2009, at 3:43 PM, DSinc wrote:


j.,
Thankyou for your rejoiner to Neil. I've sat here for 7 hours trying  
to figure out how to answer Neil. I understand his point. You said  
it right to my read. Exactly. I do not want to buy a "special" TV!


Neil,
Thanks for the reminder to visit the Thunderbird forums. I am not  
alone. Many folk are having the same trouble all over the USA! The  
common factor so far is ATT.net somehow. I am still  
reading. :)

Best,
Duncan


maccrawj wrote:
No, he's asking for support of WHY standard RFC compliant software  
has issues with their service and that IS a valid support request.  
A better analogy would be asking the cable co why a standard TV  
can't get one of their channels and the reason is some trickery  
that requires a more brain dead set made by their favorite tv  
company.
All this crap about we don't support x is BS. They may not no  
exactly how to setup a given client but should simply point  
customers to the key info and be prepared when the SERVER they  
chose to use doesn't play nice with the mainstream software.
Bottom line is they all want us on webmail because there is no need  
to support setting that up. I'd do gmail web in a pinch, but  
certainly not my normal method given I can POP or IMAP in.

Neil Davidson wrote:
I'm not sure I follow. You are complaining that your ISP won't  
support an

application that they have no connection to at all? Granted they are
providing the email account, but it is up to you what app you use.  
If you
have issues with ThunderBird or Eudora then contact the support  
forums for

*those* applications.

That's like asking your electricity supplier about a problem with  
your TV.
Sure it uses electricity, but it is up to the manufacturer of the  
TV to

support you with it.

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[DSinc]

j.,
Thankyou for your rejoiner to Neil. I've sat here for 7 hours trying to 
figure out how to answer Neil. I understand his point. You said it right 
to my read. Exactly. I do not want to buy a "special" TV!


Neil,
Thanks for the reminder to visit the Thunderbird forums. I am not alone. 
Many folk are having the same trouble all over the USA! The common 
factor so far is ATT.net somehow. I am still reading. :)

Best,
Duncan


maccrawj wrote:
No, he's asking for support of WHY standard RFC compliant software has 
issues with their service and that IS a valid support request. A better 
analogy would be asking the cable co why a standard TV can't get one of 
their channels and the reason is some trickery that requires a more 
brain dead set made by their favorite tv company.


All this crap about we don't support x is BS. They may not no exactly 
how to setup a given client but should simply point customers to the key 
info and be prepared when the SERVER they chose to use doesn't play nice 
with the mainstream software.


Bottom line is they all want us on webmail because there is no need to 
support setting that up. I'd do gmail web in a pinch, but certainly not 
my normal method given I can POP or IMAP in.


Neil Davidson wrote:

I'm not sure I follow. You are complaining that your ISP won't support an
application that they have no connection to at all? Granted they are
providing the email account, but it is up to you what app you use. If you
have issues with ThunderBird or Eudora then contact the support forums 
for

*those* applications.

That's like asking your electricity supplier about a problem with your 
TV.

Sure it uses electricity, but it is up to the manufacturer of the TV to
support you with it.

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[DSinc]

Gary,
I can certainly appreciate your focus. But, perhaps, somehow you are not 
seeing the grief many of us "new2ATT.net" folks now see now that ATT 
seems to use Yahoo as their "mail service provider."


Yes, I do understand a trial of OE. It is part of XP. I fully expect it 
to work perfectly; just because it is a MS product. No different than 
using some flavor of Outlook which ATT fully supports and has told me to 
use. I suppose that since I only spend ~$1020/yr for ATT's 2-wire CU 
services for phone and dsl, I do not have much of a voice. Fair call.


Additionally, after some 7 hours on the Mozilla/ThunderBird forums 
(thanks Neil!), I find that this recent ATT change of "mail service 
provider" has caused the same troubles with users of PACBELL.net, 
SBCglobal.net, and, now with BellSouth.net (me). The consensus within 
the TBird community is that ATT has REQUIRED new POP and SMTP settings 
that for some reason ATT servers do not play nice with (yet?).  Like the 
SSL business. I have some workarounds. For the most part, I am now 
working. All I need to fix now is sending attachments outbound.  This 
could be my ESET A/V, and, I know how to test this; but, I still have 
more study to do.


Please, thank you for all your replies. I never wished to get into the 
guts of POP and SMTP servers. I thought these devices were like other 
standards. Apparently not; so I read now.


I am still reading.
Best,
Duncan


Gary VanderMolen wrote:

The best way to find out if the problem is your email client or the service
provider is to try a different client. Most PCs have OE available for
testing purposes.

I assure you if AT&T was having widespread email issues I'd know about it.
I have had AT&T DSL/email for the past eight years, and it has been
trouble-free for me.

Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail)

--
From: "maccrawj" 
No, he's asking for support of WHY standard RFC compliant software has 
issues with their service and that IS a valid support request. A 
better analogy would be asking the cable co why a standard TV can't 
get one of their channels and the reason is some trickery that 
requires a more brain dead set made by their favorite tv company.


All this crap about we don't support x is BS. They may not no exactly 
how to setup a given client but should simply point customers to the 
key info and be prepared when the SERVER they chose to use doesn't 
play nice with the mainstream software.


Bottom line is they all want us on webmail because there is no need to 
support setting that up. I'd do gmail web in a pinch, but certainly 
not my normal method given I can POP or IMAP in. 

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[JRS]

I use only POP/SMTP at home, but I do use the web-based one from work, or when 
traveling, etc..

Since I added Ad-Block to my Firefox, at least it's been usable now.   :)

 -- 
JRS 
stei...@pacbell.net


Facts do not cease to exist just
because they are ignored.



- Original Message 
> From: Gary VanderMolen 
> To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
> Sent: Friday, June 5, 2009 11:36:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
> 
> I agree, the ads in webmail are inexcusable for paying customers.
> But I always use POP/SMTP, so I don't see the ads.
> 
> Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail)
> 
> 
> --
> From: "JRS" 
> > I think it's even more devious than that...
> >
> > they want us all on Web-based mail so they force-feed us advertising.
> >
> > I called to complain when they added ads to mine last year because after 
> > all,
> > I already *pay* them a monthly fee to be my ISP.
> >
> > The complaint fell on deaf ears..  :( 

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Gary VanderMolen]

I agree, the ads in webmail are inexcusable for paying customers.
But I always use POP/SMTP, so I don't see the ads.

Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail)


--
From: "JRS" 

I think it's even more devious than that...

they want us all on Web-based mail so they force-feed us advertising.

I called to complain when they added ads to mine last year because after all,
I already *pay* them a monthly fee to be my ISP.

The complaint fell on deaf ears..  :( 

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Gary VanderMolen]

The best way to find out if the problem is your email client or the service
provider is to try a different client. Most PCs have OE available for
testing purposes.

I assure you if AT&T was having widespread email issues I'd know about it.
I have had AT&T DSL/email for the past eight years, and it has been
trouble-free for me.

Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail)

--
From: "maccrawj" 
No, he's asking for support of WHY standard RFC compliant software has issues with their service and that IS a valid support 
request. A better analogy would be asking the cable co why a standard TV can't get one of their channels and the reason is some 
trickery that requires a more brain dead set made by their favorite tv company.


All this crap about we don't support x is BS. They may not no exactly how to setup a given client but should simply point 
customers to the key info and be prepared when the SERVER they chose to use doesn't play nice with the mainstream software.


Bottom line is they all want us on webmail because there is no need to support setting that up. I'd do gmail web in a pinch, but 
certainly not my normal method given I can POP or IMAP in. 

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[JRS]

I think it's even more devious than that...  

they want us all on Web-based mail so they force-feed us advertising.  

I called to complain when they added ads to mine last year because after all, 
I already *pay* them a monthly fee to be my ISP.

The complaint fell on deaf ears..  :(


 -- 
JRS 
stei...@pacbell.net


Facts do not cease to exist just
because they are ignored.


> Bottom line is they all want us on webmail because there is no need to 
> support 
> setting that up. I'd do gmail web in a pinch, but certainly not my normal 
> method 
> given I can POP or IMAP in.

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Gary VanderMolen]

In my experience, moving to cable from AT&T DSL is probably worse
as far as tech support.

Mail clients often have very helpful user groups. I can't speak for
Thunderbird or Eudora, but peer support for Outlook Express, Windows
Mail and Windows Live Mail is especially strong.

Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail)

--
From: "DHSinclair" 
Somehow I am now told that should I choose to continue to use either "ThunderBird" or "Eudora" as a LOCAL email client, I will 
NOT get any support from my ISP. Believe my ISP is ATT/BellSouth.


All pointers are to go to the Web-Based Yahoo/Email/com location.

Should I wish to get any support, I need to pay $29 to speak to a human that 
MAY be able to fix my silly little quibble.

Odd, too; because I already pay Att/BellSouth $33/mo for xdsl service.

Find it odd that I have to pay $29 to figure out why I can not send a 
"reply-to-w/attachment" or "forward" type email.

Plain-text to the List is fine; so far..

Bitches are not necessary;  I am already HOT! And looking now at cable (which was NEVER part of the budget) 

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[FORC5]

Not sure if this helps but I have had intermittent problems with Eudora ( not 
tbird) but use submissive port 587 for sending. works for me. Had to do that 
also on public WIFY systems for some reason (Disneyworld and at the airport)

luck with it.
Just cause they do not *support* it is no reason for it not to work, pop3 be 
pop3

Fred
At 03:12 PM 6/4/2009, DHSinclair Poked the stick with:
>Somehow I am now told that should I choose to continue to use either 
>"ThunderBird" or "Eudora" as a LOCAL email client, I will NOT get any support 
>from my ISP. Believe my ISP is ATT/BellSouth.
>
>All pointers are to go to the Web-Based Yahoo/Email/com location.
>
>Should I wish to get any support, I need to pay $29 to speak to a human that 
>MAY be able to fix my silly little quibble.
>
>Odd, too; because I already pay Att/BellSouth $33/mo for xdsl service.
>
>Find it odd that I have to pay $29 to figure out why I can not send a 
>"reply-to-w/attachment" or "forward" type email.
>
>Plain-text to the List is fine; so far..
>
>Bitches are not necessary;  I am already HOT! And looking now at cable (which 
>was NEVER part of the budget)
>Best,
>Duncan

-- 
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[maccrawj]

Exchange, three letters: LOL; Or would that qualify for 4?

That works for you because you have taken a MS solution from end-to-end with all of 
the inherent pitfalls.


Neil Davidson wrote:

Meh, I'm not so hot on gmail. I much prefer the hosted Exchange servie i use
so all my contacts, calendar and inbox are synconised between Outlook on my
desktop and laptop, my windows mobile handset, and webmail.

And if I have a problem I actually get support from a real person within an
hour of asking. Try getting that from a free service if you are having
problem with your account.

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[maccrawj]

No, he's asking for support of WHY standard RFC compliant software has issues with 
their service and that IS a valid support request. A better analogy would be asking 
the cable co why a standard TV can't get one of their channels and the reason is some 
trickery that requires a more brain dead set made by their favorite tv company.


All this crap about we don't support x is BS. They may not no exactly how to setup a 
given client but should simply point customers to the key info and be prepared when 
the SERVER they chose to use doesn't play nice with the mainstream software.


Bottom line is they all want us on webmail because there is no need to support 
setting that up. I'd do gmail web in a pinch, but certainly not my normal method 
given I can POP or IMAP in.


Neil Davidson wrote:

I'm not sure I follow. You are complaining that your ISP won't support an
application that they have no connection to at all? Granted they are
providing the email account, but it is up to you what app you use. If you
have issues with ThunderBird or Eudora then contact the support forums for
*those* applications.

That's like asking your electricity supplier about a problem with your TV.
Sure it uses electricity, but it is up to the manufacturer of the TV to
support you with it.

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Neil Davidson]

Meh, I'm not so hot on gmail. I much prefer the hosted Exchange servie i use
so all my contacts, calendar and inbox are synconised between Outlook on my
desktop and laptop, my windows mobile handset, and webmail.

And if I have a problem I actually get support from a real person within an
hour of asking. Try getting that from a free service if you are having
problem with your account.

-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
[mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Joe User
Sent: 05 June 2009 05:31
To: DHSinclair
Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

Hello DHSinclair,

Thursday, June 4, 2009, 5:51:03 PM, you wrote:

> Brian,
> I may happily/grudgingly do this:)
> Help to "how to start" would be a very big help.
> Sorry to be so pedestrian.
> Should I go GMail, then I have to tell Jim/Brian about the switch, and
> all the "email" related account business after the fact.
> Can do.
> Why is everyone so hot on GMail?
> Best,
> Duncan


Gmail is great but you can secure a domain name or email service and
just use a client you like. Lots of options out there.


-- 
Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Neil Davidson]

I'm not sure I follow. You are complaining that your ISP won't support an
application that they have no connection to at all? Granted they are
providing the email account, but it is up to you what app you use. If you
have issues with ThunderBird or Eudora then contact the support forums for
*those* applications.

That's like asking your electricity supplier about a problem with your TV.
Sure it uses electricity, but it is up to the manufacturer of the TV to
support you with it.

-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
[mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DHSinclair
Sent: 04 June 2009 23:13
To: Hardware Group
Subject: [H] I missed something along the way?

Somehow I am now told that should I choose to continue to use either 
"ThunderBird" or "Eudora" as a LOCAL email client, I will NOT get any 
support from my ISP. Believe my ISP is ATT/BellSouth.

All pointers are to go to the Web-Based Yahoo/Email/com location.

Should I wish to get any support, I need to pay $29 to speak to a human 
that MAY be able to fix my silly little quibble.

Odd, too; because I already pay Att/BellSouth $33/mo for xdsl service.

Find it odd that I have to pay $29 to figure out why I can not send a 
"reply-to-w/attachment" or "forward" type email.

Plain-text to the List is fine; so far..

Bitches are not necessary;  I am already HOT! And looking now at cable 
(which was NEVER part of the budget)
Best,
Duncan

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Naushad, Zulfiqar]

Everyone is hot on Gmail because Gmail is hot! :)
 

-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
[mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DHSinclair
Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:51 AM
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

Brian,
I may happily/grudgingly do this:)
Help to "how to start" would be a very big help.
Sorry to be so pedestrian.
Should I go GMail, then I have to tell Jim/Brian about the switch, and 
all the "email" related account business after the fact.
Can do.
Why is everyone so hot on GMail?
Best,
Duncan


Brian Weeden wrote:
> Happy gmail user here for 5 years now and I wouldn't trade it for
anything.
> Highly suggest you ditch it all and just use that.
> 
> ---
> Brian Weeden
> Technical Advisor
> Secure World Foundation <http://www.secureworldfoundation.org>
> +1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
> +1 (202) 683-8534 US
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 6:12 PM, DHSinclair 
wrote:
> 
>> Somehow I am now told that should I choose to continue to use either
>> "ThunderBird" or "Eudora" as a LOCAL email client, I will NOT get any
>> support from my ISP. Believe my ISP is ATT/BellSouth.
>>
>> All pointers are to go to the Web-Based Yahoo/Email/com location.
>>
>> Should I wish to get any support, I need to pay $29 to speak to a
human
>> that MAY be able to fix my silly little quibble.
>>
>> Odd, too; because I already pay Att/BellSouth $33/mo for xdsl
service.
>>
>> Find it odd that I have to pay $29 to figure out why I can not send a
>> "reply-to-w/attachment" or "forward" type email.
>>
>> Plain-text to the List is fine; so far..
>>
>> Bitches are not necessary;  I am already HOT! And looking now at
cable
>> (which was NEVER part of the budget)
>> Best,
>> Duncan
>>
> 

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Joe User]

Hello DHSinclair,

Thursday, June 4, 2009, 5:51:03 PM, you wrote:

> Brian,
> I may happily/grudgingly do this:)
> Help to "how to start" would be a very big help.
> Sorry to be so pedestrian.
> Should I go GMail, then I have to tell Jim/Brian about the switch, and
> all the "email" related account business after the fact.
> Can do.
> Why is everyone so hot on GMail?
> Best,
> Duncan


Gmail is great but you can secure a domain name or email service and
just use a client you like. Lots of options out there.


-- 
Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Brian Weeden]

Yep, just sign up for an account and you're basically done.  Yes, you will
have to change your subscribed address over but that's not hard - just
re-subscribe to the your mailing lists with the new address.  You can also
check your existing yahoo account from within gmail as long as the yahoo
account supports pop3 or imap.

As to why I love it:

1) automatic threaded messages means you always see a whole conversation.
so if there are three unread messages from the same thread in your inbox,
you can actually tell and don't end up responding to a question that someone
else has already answered in another message

2) never ever have to delete email or sort into folders and you never run
out of space

3) tags mean you can sort your mail in any way you choose with multiple
different tags for each if you want that way

4) web access anywhere through a web browser

5) integrated email, voice/text/video chat, task list, calendar, and docs
access from the same interface

6) syncs wonderfully with my iPhone (along with calendar and contacts

7) i get to keep the same email address no matter which ISP I am using

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation 
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US


On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 6:51 PM, DHSinclair  wrote:

> Brian,
> I may happily/grudgingly do this:)
> Help to "how to start" would be a very big help.
> Sorry to be so pedestrian.
> Should I go GMail, then I have to tell Jim/Brian about the switch, and all
> the "email" related account business after the fact.
> Can do.
> Why is everyone so hot on GMail?
> Best,
> Duncan
>
>
> Brian Weeden wrote:
>
>> Happy gmail user here for 5 years now and I wouldn't trade it for
>> anything.
>> Highly suggest you ditch it all and just use that.
>>
>> ---
>> Brian Weeden
>> Technical Advisor
>> Secure World Foundation 
>> +1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
>> +1 (202) 683-8534 US
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 6:12 PM, DHSinclair  wrote:
>>
>>  Somehow I am now told that should I choose to continue to use either
>>> "ThunderBird" or "Eudora" as a LOCAL email client, I will NOT get any
>>> support from my ISP. Believe my ISP is ATT/BellSouth.
>>>
>>> All pointers are to go to the Web-Based Yahoo/Email/com location.
>>>
>>> Should I wish to get any support, I need to pay $29 to speak to a human
>>> that MAY be able to fix my silly little quibble.
>>>
>>> Odd, too; because I already pay Att/BellSouth $33/mo for xdsl service.
>>>
>>> Find it odd that I have to pay $29 to figure out why I can not send a
>>> "reply-to-w/attachment" or "forward" type email.
>>>
>>> Plain-text to the List is fine; so far..
>>>
>>> Bitches are not necessary;  I am already HOT! And looking now at cable
>>> (which was NEVER part of the budget)
>>> Best,
>>> Duncan
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[DHSinclair]

Brian,
I may happily/grudgingly do this:)
Help to "how to start" would be a very big help.
Sorry to be so pedestrian.
Should I go GMail, then I have to tell Jim/Brian about the switch, and 
all the "email" related account business after the fact.

Can do.
Why is everyone so hot on GMail?
Best,
Duncan


Brian Weeden wrote:

Happy gmail user here for 5 years now and I wouldn't trade it for anything.
Highly suggest you ditch it all and just use that.

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation 
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US


On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 6:12 PM, DHSinclair  wrote:


Somehow I am now told that should I choose to continue to use either
"ThunderBird" or "Eudora" as a LOCAL email client, I will NOT get any
support from my ISP. Believe my ISP is ATT/BellSouth.

All pointers are to go to the Web-Based Yahoo/Email/com location.

Should I wish to get any support, I need to pay $29 to speak to a human
that MAY be able to fix my silly little quibble.

Odd, too; because I already pay Att/BellSouth $33/mo for xdsl service.

Find it odd that I have to pay $29 to figure out why I can not send a
"reply-to-w/attachment" or "forward" type email.

Plain-text to the List is fine; so far..

Bitches are not necessary;  I am already HOT! And looking now at cable
(which was NEVER part of the budget)
Best,
Duncan

Re: [H] I missed something along the way?

[Brian Weeden]

Happy gmail user here for 5 years now and I wouldn't trade it for anything.
Highly suggest you ditch it all and just use that.

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation 
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US


On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 6:12 PM, DHSinclair  wrote:

> Somehow I am now told that should I choose to continue to use either
> "ThunderBird" or "Eudora" as a LOCAL email client, I will NOT get any
> support from my ISP. Believe my ISP is ATT/BellSouth.
>
> All pointers are to go to the Web-Based Yahoo/Email/com location.
>
> Should I wish to get any support, I need to pay $29 to speak to a human
> that MAY be able to fix my silly little quibble.
>
> Odd, too; because I already pay Att/BellSouth $33/mo for xdsl service.
>
> Find it odd that I have to pay $29 to figure out why I can not send a
> "reply-to-w/attachment" or "forward" type email.
>
> Plain-text to the List is fine; so far..
>
> Bitches are not necessary;  I am already HOT! And looking now at cable
> (which was NEVER part of the budget)
> Best,
> Duncan
>

[H] I missed something along the way?

[DHSinclair]

Somehow I am now told that should I choose to continue to use either 
"ThunderBird" or "Eudora" as a LOCAL email client, I will NOT get any 
support from my ISP. Believe my ISP is ATT/BellSouth.


All pointers are to go to the Web-Based Yahoo/Email/com location.

Should I wish to get any support, I need to pay $29 to speak to a human 
that MAY be able to fix my silly little quibble.


Odd, too; because I already pay Att/BellSouth $33/mo for xdsl service.

Find it odd that I have to pay $29 to figure out why I can not send a 
"reply-to-w/attachment" or "forward" type email.


Plain-text to the List is fine; so far..

Bitches are not necessary;  I am already HOT! And looking now at cable 
(which was NEVER part of the budget)

Best,
Duncan