Re: [IceHorses] OT: Bart's turnout
>>> IceBankers. Or Spankers for short. Or maybe Off-shore Bankers - a great way to hide money. (Most of my money ends up hidden in the manure pile...no wait, it IS the manure pile!) Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] OT: Bart's turnout
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:41:00 -0400, you wrote: >I've been tempted to make a public announcement that I will be starting a >new breed called "Island Ponies" that will be a cross between Icelandic's >and Corolla Bankers. IceBankers. Or Spankers for short. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
Re: [IceHorses] OT: Bart's turnout
>>> So what is the plan for Bart? Gelding and re-homing, or keeping him a >>> breeding stallion for the herd? I've been tempted to make a public announcement that I will be starting a new breed called "Island Ponies" that will be a cross between Icelandic's and Corolla Bankers. It's not true, but I think it would be fun to get a few busybody tongues wagging. ;) The honest answer is that I don't know. I like having a project horse, and I wanted to try one a little more "raw" than the past few Icelandic's I've had. I inquired about the Corolla Wild Horses Fund, when I heard they were adopting a few of the herd out. I know how badly that herd is hurting with the encroaching development, and it breaks my heart. This herd is sentimental to me. Being a NC native, I've heard about the horses all my life, and was lucky enough to see a few of them a few times before they were herded up past the end of the public road. Then of course, I got to see all the ones on the trip north of the road six weeks ago. I don't know exactly what I was thinking when I inquired - maybe taking in a filly or colt to play with Princess and Hroi at weaning? I didn't really have a plan, but whatever plan I didn't have, I sure did NOT plan to get another stallion...ever. But, about a week after I inquired, I got a call asking if I had a facility to take an injured stallion they were taking off the beach. Gulp. No. No way. I waited a week or so, and no one else volunteered. Then a couple of weeks later, out of the blue, Cary got a break in his work schedule - he thought vacation was out of the question until fall, but a slack week opened up for him. He asked if I wanted to go back to the Outer Banks - it had been five years since we last went, but we used to go every year. I called, and amazingly our favorite beach house, one that usually stays booked all year, was available that week. It was just eerie how it happened, all falling into place. Then we went, and got to spend time with Bart and Vinnie every day, so here they are. No plan...Bart just needed a place to crash... :) The Wild Horse Fund (adoption league) wants to preserve Bart as a breeding stallion. He's very "typey" and correct (in the Colonial Spanish sense of the word) and is an unusually docile, laid-back stallion. Their first concern was that he get a good home, and their second concern is that his DNA be preserved. I have adopted them both, so I own them, with the adoption being official at the end of a year. If Bart proves to be too much to handle as a stallion, I can geld him at any time, or they will try again to find someone to take him as a stallion. Time will tell. And no, I have no plans of cross-breeding him to Icelandic's. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] OT: Bart's turnout
>>> She sort of wiggled, so I put the collar on her and she knew the entire >>> basic obedience routine: heel, sit, down, stay, recall. She'd learned >>> it all by watching the other dog. Not sure if that would actually work >>> with horses, but Bart is certainly going to benefit by watching Vinnie >>> be comfortable with handling. I admit that we include our horses in the rehabbing/training of new horses. It was particularly effective for Cali. She's a curious busybody (and actually a good many horses are) so I use that to our advantage. Part of our daily unwind period is to take a stroll through the pastures, stopping to speak to each horse. Since the horses are curious and friendly, that encourages the new ones to see us as valued visitors, not intruders to the herd. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] OT: Bart's turnout
--- On Wed, 7/16/08, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have all > faith that Bart will make the transition, but that's > because he's an > exceptional individual from a distinctive breed. So what is the plan for Bart? Gelding and re-homing, or keeping him a breeding stallion for the herd? Susan in NV read my blog to see why I ride my horse in pink: http://desertduty.blogspot.com/
Re: [IceHorses] OT: Bart's turnout
>>> He looks really nice. The area he came from has a lot of people, right? >>> I wonder if it works with him like it does with our youngsters. An >>> Icelandic friend sends his young horses up to us to grow up, and they >>> are always completely unhandled apart from the very, very basics. They >>> don't lead, some are virtually untouchable loose in the field. However, >>> after a summer out on the moor (which has lots of people walking dogs >>> etc) they all seem to be much more friendly. I don't know first-hand how you handle your horses, but what's going on with the Bankers is nothing like what I've heard in the "traditional" lore of Icelandic raising. There are people there, way too many, although there are still small spots that are undeveloped. These horses see horses daily, but the people they encounter for the most part are tourists, who mostly know nothing about horses. There have been some acts of vandalism against the herd - seven were even murdered over the past seven years, a huge number for such a tiny herd. It's not like they are sent up into the mountains for months, years at a time, with no sitings of humans. MOST of their dealings with humans are pleasant, but not all. In many (most?) ways, I think the Bankers have less fear of humans than many of the imported Icelandic's I've encountered or heard of. That said, you can't rule out the "nature" part of the equation. People who have experience with various strains of mustangs say that the Colonial Spanish strains are the most gentle, and friendliest of any of the mustangs that they've found. Overall, that seems to apply equally to the ones who were discovered out west, who had much less contact with humans - I'm sure some never saw people until their capture, at least not very close. The Bankers seem particularly so - some people believe they are the purest of the Spanish herds...but maybe it's because of their close range with humans. Who knows? There's not a Banker over three weeks (3 days?) old who has never seen a human - there are just too darned many people on the island now. Unfortunately, some of the babies even get carrots and apples as handouts - which is kinda/sorta nice if done correctly, IF they are to be adopted, but not so nice if non-horsey tourists are spoiling them, taking the edge of their feral survival skills, and making them rude and unruly in the process. It's a complicated mess these horses are in. Bart has an "edge", a wariness, to him that makes me doubt he was hand-fed carrots in his youth, but I could be wrong. The herd manager said that Bart is by far the easiest of the mature stallions he's ever removed from the wild. His docility will make him a great domestic horse, but it probably is the reason he was injured and had to be removed. Steve also said that most of the Corolla horses (non-mature-stallions, that is) are similarly docile and extremely trainable. The five-year-old mare who was adopted by the boarding barn where Bart and Vinnie were staying was trained for riding, and was an amazing little mare - the breed ambassador for the "Wild Horse Days" type festivity/fund-raisers, but in her spare time, she gives 5-6 year old kids beginner "up-down" lessons, always with a lovely, sweet attitude. She's one in a million, and if I had to judge by looks, I'd say she's VERY closely related to Vinnie. (Maybe an older sister?) The herd manager has been around horses all his life, mostly QH and stock horses. He showed, and went to work for Craig Johnson, the noted reining horse trainer and competitor - the one who sometimes works with Parelli. He started many QH for Johnson and for others, some out of the huge Texas herds. In his lifetime (I suspect he's mid-late 30's, but I'm not sure) he said he's had two horses try to kill him. One was a mishandled, overtrained, overfed, questionably bred QH who was eventually euthanized. The other was the last mature Banker stallion removed from the wild, just prior to Bart. So, while this herd is generally VERY docile and sweet, they are still wild - or feral at least. It's really ironic that the two extremes in stallions he's met were the last two he removed from the Banker herd. I love working with raw animals, but NO WAY would I have attempted to work with that other stallion. He has been in domesticity for several months (a year?) and is finally (barely) under saddle, but he's hurt people in the process. There is also some local folklore about the adventures of that older stallion, that point to extreme intelligence and survival skill. Bart is wise...but thank god, not so "wiley." In other words, no way would I consider transitioning a horse from the current Banker environment to a family environment to be ideal, or anything to take notes from. I think they are gentle, sweet horses overall, but a early life that prepares them for survival on their own is not necessarily
Re: [IceHorses] OT: Bart's turnout
On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:15:37 -0400, you wrote: >I'd say for a horse just taken from the wild nine weeks ago He looks really nice. The area he came from has a lot of people, right? I wonder if it works with him like it does with our youngsters. An Icelandic friend sends his young horses up to us to grow up, and they are always completely unhandled apart from the very, very basics. They don't lead, some are virtually untouchable loose in the field. However, after a summer out on the moor (which has lots of people walking dogs etc) they all seem to be much more friendly. In fact when we first started doing this I would spend several weeks working with them before putting them out, but now I put them out, then do the work at the end of the summer when they come home, and it's much easier. I think they see people around them and realise they are not next in line for the main course at dinner... ; ) Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
Re: [IceHorses] OT: Bart's turnout
By working with Vinnie where Bart could watch and maybe want to get in on the fun, I suspect I helped Bart along today too - indirectly though, not directly. I was doing obedience with one of my standard poodles years ago and one of our daughters had a wonderful Aussie that was "her" dog. Hannah watched and watched and watched as I trained the poodle. After this had gone on for weeks, I looked over at her one night and said, "Hannah, did you want to try this?" She sort of wiggled, so I put the collar on her and she knew the entire basic obedience routine: heel, sit, down, stay, recall. She'd learned it all by watching the other dog. Not sure if that would actually work with horses, but Bart is certainly going to benefit by watching Vinnie be comfortable with handling. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] OT: Bart's turnout
>>> This is the lesson I have struggled with the most. To this day I get in >>> the "today we >>> will work on ..." mode. I think I may finally have matured enough to scrap >>> the plan >>> when it's obvious that actually it is not "the day". I think it's a good idea to have a plan - but we have to remember that no plan can be rigid. I had to learn that with the first "problem horses" I had. Sometimes there were days when I was totally at a loss - I didn't know what to do.The irony was that doing nothing sometimes turned out to be the right thing. Sometimes, if you don't know what to do, if you'll just spend the time observing, watching, the horse will give you some signs, and they will lead you if you pay attention. On the opposite end, I was told that Vinnie wasn't really halter-broken and not reliably leadable. I think that was probably correct, but the little guy is just "ripe" so he was ready to move on and learn. Before the delivery trailer was all the way down my driveway, I'd taken his old halter off and put his new one on. Then I led him around outside for a few minutes. Today, we played with stuff in his paddock. We did friendly game, and started porcupine and driving - every horse needs to have a "move away" command for safety's sake before you can do anything else. He "got it" already, so I moved onto playing friendly game with a saddle pad, putting it all over his back. Then I put a kid's beach ball in his paddock and watched him play soccer with it. I didn't have any particular plans for him, and we did way more than I would have ever planned to do. The cool part is that Bart and Vinnie seem to be bonding - they didn't know each other before they got on the trailer to come here. (They were at the same farm, but not too close together.) Bart watched every move (from his adjoining paddock) that Vinnie and I did, and seemed to be quite interested. If I'd made a plan and stuck to it, I probably would have tried more with Bart - and likely have screwed up in the process - but I doubt I would have planned so much with Vinnie. By working with Vinnie where Bart could watch and maybe want to get in on the fun, I suspect I helped Bart along today too - indirectly though, not directly. There's an old Parellism that I can't quite remember, but it's something like, Everyone says 'Don't just stand there, do something', when more often, especially in the beginning, it should be 'Don't just do something, stand there.' I like that one a lot - there's a lot of truth to it. Bart's turn-out time was our 'Don't do something, sit there' time, and I think it was well-spent. We can't make rigid plans for Bart before we get to know him. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] OT: Bart's turnout
I don't have a particular timetable. This is the lesson I have struggled with the most. To this day I get in the "today we will work on ..." mode. I think I may finally have matured enough to scrap the plan when it's obvious that actually it is not "the day". Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] OT: Bart's turnout
>>> Seems at ease and happy enough! V On some levels, I think he is, but I have to remind myself that he's just nine weeks from the "wild." He's not halter trained, so he can't go into a bigger area until we can catch him and halter him. But, I'm a big believer in "take the time it takes so it takes less time." I don't have a particular timetable. I just want all the experiences to be forward, with the fewest setbacks we can manage, and no injuries. I love working with the "raw" horses, but I'm not foolhardy, and I'm definitely allergic to pain. I was able to rub all over his face today, over his eyes, and around his ears. That was a big step forward. I won't have so much time to work with him until the weekend now though. Poor guy also learned about electric fence today. I hate it when they do it, but they need to respect it, and it's especially important that a stallion not get loose. Sometimes it's just hard to remember that Bart is a stallion. BTW, I took the measuring stick into his stall. I didn't put it all the way next to him - that would have been tempting fate at this point - but he's taller than I thought. He's at least a couple of inches over 13H, probably 13.2. When I saw him at the beach, I thought he'd be 13H maximum. I don't think Vinnie is over 12.2H. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] OT: Bart's turnout
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Bart got turn-out time tonight in a very small grassy area we made with > corral panels at the front of the barn. We used the Parelli-recommended (and > common sense/low pressure) method of taking chairs into the area, and just > sitting with him - no pressure, all of us just chillin'. Seems at ease and happy enough! V
