Re: [IPsec] New Version Notification for draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00.txt

2016-11-03 Thread Yoav Nir 
The draft has no text about mapping SA to source port. So if I’m understanding 
you correctly, the tunnel ingress calculates the port (is there actual 
calculation, or just picking?), so if it sends all packets for a particular SA 
with the same UDP source port, they will all traverse the same path and 
therefore will likely not get re-ordered, or at least will not get any more 
re-ordered than IPsec packets on the regular Internet.

Did I understand this correctly?

Yoav

> On 3 Nov 2016, at 8:27, Xuxiaohu <xuxia...@huawei.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Yoav,
>  
> The load-balancing mechanism as described in this draft would ensure a given 
> traffic flow to be forwarded over a certain path. In other words, there is no 
> disordering issue. The destination port is assigned by IANA while the source 
> port is dynamically calculated by the ingress of the IPsec/UDP tunnel. 
> Furthermore, a given traffic flow would be forwarded over a certain path and 
> therefore this is no disordering issue. As for why do we need a new port, I 
> had attempted to reply in another email.
>  
> Best regards,
> XIaohu
>  
> 发件人: Yoav Nir [mailto:ynir.i...@gmail.com] 
> 发送时间: 2016年11月1日 15:31
> 收件人: Xuxiaohu
> 抄送: ipsec@ietf.org
> 主题: Re: [IPsec] New Version Notification for 
> draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00.txt
>  
> Hi, Xiaohu
>  
> A few comments. Actually, they’re more like questions.
>  
> How are IPsec SAs mapped to UDP pseudo-connections?  Is it a 1:1 mapping 
> between SPI and source port?
> If now, how do you deal with the packet reordering that the load balancer 
> will do? IPsec requires ordered or nearly-ordered delivery.
> How is this negotiated?  In IKE? Prior agreement?
> Why do we need a new port?  What goes wrong if the packets go to port 4500?
>  
> Thanks
>  
> Yoav
> On 1 Nov 2016, at 3:45, Xuxiaohu <xuxia...@huawei.com 
> <mailto:xuxia...@huawei.com>> wrote:
>  
> Hi all,
> 
> Any comments and suggestions are welcome.
> 
> Best regards,
> Xiaohu
> 
> 
> -邮件原件-
> 发件人: internet-dra...@ietf.org <mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org> 
> [mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org <mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org>]
> 发送时间: 2016年10月31日 19:15
> 收件人: Xuxiaohu; zhangdacheng; Xialiang (Frank)
> 主题: New Version Notification for draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00.txt
> 
> 
> A new version of I-D, draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Liang Xia and posted to the IETF 
> repository.
> 
> Name:  draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb
> Revision:  00
> Title: Encapsulating IPsec ESP in UDP for Load-balancing
> Document date:2016-10-31
> Group: Individual Submission
> Pages: 7
> URL:
> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00.txt 
> <https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00.txt>
> Status:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb/ 
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb/>
> Htmlized:   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00 
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00>
> 
> 
> Abstract:
>  IPsec Virtual Private Network (VPN) is widely used by enterprises to
>  interconnect their geographical dispersed branch office locations
>  across IP Wide Area Network (WAN). To fully utilize the bandwidth
>  available in IP WAN, load balancing of traffic between different
>  IPsec VPN sites over Equal Cost Multi-Path (ECMP) and/or Link
>  Aggregation Group (LAG) within IP WAN is attractive to those
>  enterprises deploying IPsec VPN solutions. This document defines a
>  method to encapsulate IPsec Encapsulating Security Payload (ESP)
>  packets inside UDP packets for improving load-balancing of IPsec
>  tunneled traffic. In addition, this encapsulation is also applicable
>  to some special multi-tenant data center network environment where
>  the overlay tunnels need to be secured.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> 
> The IETF Secretariat
> 
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Re: [IPsec] New Version Notification for draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00.txt

2016-11-02 Thread Yoav Nir 

> On 2 Nov 2016, at 18:19, Michael Richardson  wrote:
> 
> 
> Yoav Nir  wrote:
>> 4 Why do we need a new port? What goes wrong if the
>> packets go to port 4500?
> 
> I think that TE/load-balancer in the network calculates the same tuple hash
> and so takes the same path. (Presuming that it ignores the source UDP port)

I don’t follow. The draft requests a new destination port from IANA. Let’s 
assume it is 14500. 

What is the difference between having every gateway send traffic with the 
5-tuple (me, random_port, UDP, you, 4500) and having every gateway send traffic 
with the 5-tuple (me, random_port, UDP, you, 14500) ?

Sending UDP-encapsulated traffic from a random port works today, and has the 
advantage that middleboxes trying to classify traffic already know what it is.

Yoav
.


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Re: [IPsec] New Version Notification for draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00.txt

2016-11-02 Thread Michael Richardson 

Yoav Nir  wrote:
> 4 Why do we need a new port? What goes wrong if the
> packets go to port 4500?

I think that TE/load-balancer in the network calculates the same tuple hash
and so takes the same path. (Presuming that it ignores the source UDP port)

--
Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-





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Re: [IPsec] New Version Notification for draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00.txt

2016-11-01 Thread Valery Smyslov 
Hi,

 

I have almost the same list of questions as Yoav’s list. But main question is - 

how are you going to ensure that load balancer delivers ESP packets

to the same cluster node where IKE messages that create this ESP SA

were delivered? In other words, load balancer must deliver ESP packets

to the node that can decrypt them, i.e. to the node that has appropriate

keys, i.e. to the node that created this ESP SA, i.e. to the node IKE SA

messages that created that ESP SA were delivered, and this messages definitely 
had 

different UDP ports. If balancer doesn’t know anything about IKE/IPsec and 
looks only 

on UDP ports, then how the above requirement is met? On the other hand,

if you spread ESP keys over all cluster nodes, then why do you bother to

care that load balancer delivers all ESP SA packets to the same node?

 

Regards,

Valery.

 

From: IPsec [mailto:ipsec-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Yoav Nir
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 10:31 AM
To: Xuxiaohu
Cc: ipsec@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [IPsec] New Version Notification for 
draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00.txt

 

Hi, Xiaohu

 

A few comments. Actually, they’re more like questions.

 

1.  How are IPsec SAs mapped to UDP pseudo-connections?  Is it a 1:1 
mapping between SPI and source port?
2.  If now, how do you deal with the packet reordering that the load 
balancer will do? IPsec requires ordered or nearly-ordered delivery.
3.  How is this negotiated?  In IKE? Prior agreement?
4.  Why do we need a new port?  What goes wrong if the packets go to port 
4500?

 

Thanks

 

Yoav

On 1 Nov 2016, at 3:45, Xuxiaohu <xuxia...@huawei.com> wrote:

 

Hi all,

Any comments and suggestions are welcome.

Best regards,
Xiaohu




-邮件原件-
发件人: internet-dra...@ietf.org [mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org]
发送时间: 2016年10月31日 19:15
收件人: Xuxiaohu; zhangdacheng; Xialiang (Frank)
主题: New Version Notification for draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Liang Xia and posted to the IETF repository.

Name:   draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb
Revision:  00
Title: Encapsulating IPsec ESP in UDP for Load-balancing
Document date:2016-10-31
Group:  Individual Submission
Pages:   7
URL:
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00.txt
Status:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb/
Htmlized:   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00


Abstract:
 IPsec Virtual Private Network (VPN) is widely used by enterprises to
 interconnect their geographical dispersed branch office locations
 across IP Wide Area Network (WAN). To fully utilize the bandwidth
 available in IP WAN, load balancing of traffic between different
 IPsec VPN sites over Equal Cost Multi-Path (ECMP) and/or Link
 Aggregation Group (LAG) within IP WAN is attractive to those
 enterprises deploying IPsec VPN solutions. This document defines a
 method to encapsulate IPsec Encapsulating Security Payload (ESP)
 packets inside UDP packets for improving load-balancing of IPsec
 tunneled traffic. In addition, this encapsulation is also applicable
 to some special multi-tenant data center network environment where
 the overlay tunnels need to be secured.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


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Re: [IPsec] New Version Notification for draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00.txt

2016-11-01 Thread Yoav Nir 
Hi, Xiaohu

A few comments. Actually, they’re more like questions.

How are IPsec SAs mapped to UDP pseudo-connections?  Is it a 1:1 mapping 
between SPI and source port?
If now, how do you deal with the packet reordering that the load balancer will 
do? IPsec requires ordered or nearly-ordered delivery.
How is this negotiated?  In IKE? Prior agreement?
Why do we need a new port?  What goes wrong if the packets go to port 4500?

Thanks

Yoav
> On 1 Nov 2016, at 3:45, Xuxiaohu  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Any comments and suggestions are welcome.
> 
> Best regards,
> Xiaohu
> 
>> -邮件原件-
>> 发件人: internet-dra...@ietf.org [mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org]
>> 发送时间: 2016年10月31日 19:15
>> 收件人: Xuxiaohu; zhangdacheng; Xialiang (Frank)
>> 主题: New Version Notification for draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00.txt
>> 
>> 
>> A new version of I-D, draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00.txt
>> has been successfully submitted by Liang Xia and posted to the IETF 
>> repository.
>> 
>> Name:draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb
>> Revision:00
>> Title:   Encapsulating IPsec ESP in UDP for Load-balancing
>> Document date:   2016-10-31
>> Group:   Individual Submission
>> Pages:   7
>> URL:
>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00.txt
>> Status:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb/
>> Htmlized:   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ipsecme-esp-in-udp-lb-00
>> 
>> 
>> Abstract:
>>  IPsec Virtual Private Network (VPN) is widely used by enterprises to
>>  interconnect their geographical dispersed branch office locations
>>  across IP Wide Area Network (WAN). To fully utilize the bandwidth
>>  available in IP WAN, load balancing of traffic between different
>>  IPsec VPN sites over Equal Cost Multi-Path (ECMP) and/or Link
>>  Aggregation Group (LAG) within IP WAN is attractive to those
>>  enterprises deploying IPsec VPN solutions. This document defines a
>>  method to encapsulate IPsec Encapsulating Security Payload (ESP)
>>  packets inside UDP packets for improving load-balancing of IPsec
>>  tunneled traffic. In addition, this encapsulation is also applicable
>>  to some special multi-tenant data center network environment where
>>  the overlay tunnels need to be secured.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>> 
>> The IETF Secretariat
> 
> ___
> IPsec mailing list
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec

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