Linux-Hardware Digest #113

2001-01-01 Thread Digestifier

Linux-Hardware Digest #113, Volume #14Mon, 1 Jan 01 13:13:09 EST

Contents:
  Re: CD Burner (Scott Alfter)
  Re: CD Burner (scatterman)
  Re: Epson USB scanner and sane (John Thompson)
  Hard disk problems with Red Hat 7.0 install ("Chris")
  IBM ISA Etherjet NIC Driver (Pleiades)
  Re: Xircom RealPort CardBus 10/100 +56k modem won't work ("Eric")
  Re: Epson USB scanner and sane (Wolfgang Fritz)
  Two mice? (John Hong)
  Support Maxtor G450 ("Harald Adams")
  Re: CD Burner (Kevin J. McCann)
  Re: CD Burner (Kevin J. McCann)
  Genius Video Wonder Pro II V2 - tv tuner (Boris Kulagin)
  how to using internal ADSL Modem in Linux ? ("daejin_jung")
  Red Hat 6.2 can't install -- is it the RAID controllers? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: Intel 810 chips (Susan Stewart)
  Re: Linux and Motorola SM56 PCI (Susan Stewart)
  Two Harddrives ("Chad Massano")
  fire wire ("larryr")
  /dev/ttys I/O error (Susan Stewart)
  Soundcard configuration problem! ("Michael Steiner")
  Re: Two mice? (Julie Brandon)



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Scott Alfter)
Crossposted-To: 
alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake,alt.uu.comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux.admin
Subject: Re: CD Burner
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 03:39:13 -

=BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE=
Hash: SHA1

In article ,
Sean Tuttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Okay, but I don't understand why he has to get SCSI working if it's not a
>scuzzy burner... if the burner is an IDE burner and he doesn't have a scuzzy
>card, why would he have to bother with setting up SCSI..

All available CD-burning software for Linux is written to talk to SCSI
devices.  IDE-SCSI emulation provides a compatibility layer to enable IDE
CD-R/CD-RW drives to work with the software that's available for Linux. 
You don't need an actual SCSI card in your computer, unless (like me) you
have some actual SCSI devices (such as a scanner).  SCSI support, IDE-SCSI
emulation, and support for SCSI CD-ROM and SCSI generic devices are what you
want in order to burn CDs.  Disable IDE CD-ROM support; through IDE-SCSI
emulation, IDE CD-ROM and DVD-ROM drives will be accessible as SCSI devices
(/dev/scd* instead of /dev/hd*).

  _/_
 / v \
(IIGS(  Scott Alfter (remove Voyager's hull number for email address)
 \_^_/  http://salfter.dyndns.org
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Version: GnuPG v1.0.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

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--

From: scatterman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: CD Burner
Crossposted-To: 
alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake,alt.uu.comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux.admin
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 04:13:32 GMT

for some damned reason all cdr's are treated as scsi, even by windows.


--

From: John Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Epson USB scanner and sane
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 21:52:27 -0600

Wolfgang Fritz wrote:

> John Thompson wrote:
> >
> > I'm having difficulty getting my Epson 636U scanner to work in
> > linux.  I'm using kernel 2.2.18 with USB options enabled.  lspci
> > tells me I have Intel-82371AB USB controller:
> >
> [ good looking messages removed ]
> >
> > Where am I going wrong?

> Did you edit the file /etc/sane.d/epson.conf?
> Mine looks like this:
> 
> #scsi EPSON
> # /dev/scanner
> usb /dev/usbscanner0
> 
> I have an EPSON 1200U. Configuration is nearly the same as yours.

Yes, I have, and no joy. Since yesterday I have tried the other
USB port on my machine, recompiled sane again, compiled another
linux kernel with USB in the kernel instead of as modules, and
still no joy.  It's frustrating because the hardware is obviously
being recognized by the kernel, but sane refuses to use the
scanner device.  When I rmmod the scanner module and then
"modprobe scanner" to reload it I get this:

 Dec 31 21:31:50 starfleet kernel: usb.c: deregistering driver
usbscanner 
Dec 31 21:31:54 starfleet kernel: usb.c: registered new driver
usbscanner 
Dec 31 21:31:54 starfleet kernel: scanner.c: probe_scanner: User
specified USB scanner -- Vendor:Product - 4b8:101 
Dec 31 21:31:54 starfleet kernel: scanner.c: USB Scanner support
registered. 

Then if I try to run "scanimage -L" I get this:


[john@starfleet john]$ scanimage -L

No scanners were identified. If you were expecting something
different,
check that the scanner is plugged in, turned on and detected by
the
find-scanner tool (if appropriate). Please read the documentation
which came
with this software (README, FAQ, manpages).

The sane documentation suggests that I can specify a dev

Linux-Hardware Digest #113

2000-06-25 Thread Digestifier

Linux-Hardware Digest #113, Volume #13   Sun, 25 Jun 00 19:13:09 EDT

Contents:
  Thoughts on this configuration? (no one)
  Re: Finding a COM5 with Mandrake 7.0 (Dances With Crows)
  Re: HP, Linux, and tape drives :-( ("Andrew E. Schulman")
  Re: More 3C509 problems, confused!?! (Dances With Crows)
  Re: Num Lock & Linux -- here's how (Steve Martin)
  Re: Num Lock & Linux -- here's how (Hal Burgiss)
  Re: Matrox g400 Dual Head (SGTCAP)
  Re: Alan Po Again. How to start to study the KERNEL of Linux ("Phillip Soltan")
  Re: Thoughts on this configuration? (Andreas =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=F6dl?=)
  Compaq Presario 1200XL soundboard/modem problems (Collene Pearce)
  Re: Thoughts on this configuration? ("B. Joshua Rosen")
  Re: PENTIJUM MII 300 ( F O N T O ) ("SLAVISA")
  Re: PENTIJUM MII 300 ( F O N T O ) (driver)
  PPP and Winmodem (JoeB)
  Q: HD > 1024cyl (Dima Maziuk)



Crossposted-To: comp.hardware,comp.ibm.pc.hardware,comp.sys.pc.hardware
Subject: Thoughts on this configuration?
From: no-one@all (no one)
Date: 25 Jun 2000 15:15:14 -0500

Hey gang:

I haven't bought or built a PC since the early Pentium days (been spending 
my time playing with SUN and HP server equipment).  Anyway, I find that 
it's about time for me to build a new development/test system to use with 
NT and Linux.  To that end, I've tried to identify what I believe will make 
a good system and choose parts that are compatible.

I'm interested in thougts that other readers might have about my chosen 
configuration, and whether my expected costs for the parts seem reasonable:

Tyan SMP P3 Tiger 133 S1834 motherboard 160
ATX 6 drive bay case with 250W power supply  30
PS2 keyboard with tactile response   30
PS2 3 button mouse   10
2 each 256MB 72 bit PC/100 SDRAM600
2 each 600mhz P3 processors (slot 1 type SECC2) 440
2 each Maxtor EIDE 18GB fixed disk  220
IDE cd-rom reader/burner200
Adaptec 2940UW SCSI card175
2X AGP graphics card (S3 chipset with 8MB)  300
20 inch Vision Master 1600x1200 monitor  1000
100mb PCI network card   30
-
 3195

I'm wondering whether I can gather the needed parts within the price range 
I've listed and I need to make sure that the parts I've listed are all 
compatible.  Is there anything important that I've forgotten to list?

Is anyone running a similar configuration and can you give me any idea 
about performance or noted problems?

I can be reached by posting a followup, or email me at 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] where the digits and the word (german) are 
removed from the domain name.  The (O) is a letter, not a digit...

Thanks


== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
===  Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ==

--

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Subject: Re: Finding a COM5 with Mandrake 7.0
Date: 25 Jun 2000 16:30:02 EDT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 03:51:22 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
<<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> shouted forth into the ether:
>I just installed Mandrake(a dual boot with win98) and my modem is on
>com 5.  Linux will not recognize a com 5.  What can I do to fix my
>dilemma.  Thanks advance.

Linux can and will use a 5th serial port if one's really there.  More than
likely, there isn't a real serial port there, though.  Check the list at
http://www.o2.net/~gromitkc/winmodem.html and make sure that your modem
isn't on the blacklist there.  Most computers these days ship with
LoseModems installed instead of Real Modems.  For the easiest and best
modem experience with Linux, buy a Real Modem that's external and plugs
into the serial port.

If by some lucky chance you have a Real Modem that's internal, take a look
at http://linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/Modem-HOWTO.html

-- 
Matt G / Dances With Crows  /\"Man could not stare too long at the face
\[this space for rent]-/  \   of the Computer or her children and still
 \There is no Darkness in Eternity \  remain as Man." --David Zindell "So did
But only Light too dim for us to see\ they become Gods, or Usenetters?" --/me

--

From: "Andrew E. Schulman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Linux-Hardware Digest #113

1999-08-27 Thread Digestifier

Linux-Hardware Digest #113, Volume #11   Fri, 27 Aug 99 16:13:28 EDT

Contents:
  L'Onda ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  2 problems ("Michael Reep")
  Re: Adaptec 78xx Hardware RAID and RH6 ("Tony Platt")
  Re: Which printer should I buy? (David A. Rogers)
  One more question ("Michael Reep")
  Backing up our RH5.2 server (Peter Polman)
  Creative Labs Riva TNT2 ("Daniel T Pasher")
  Re: Avoid ATI Graphics like the plague (Michel Catudal)
  KDS avitron AV-7T monitor not working in redhat ("Al A.")
  PCMCIA ("Lonny Selinger")
  Adaptec RAIDport Card (Bill Bannan)
  Setup Problem - YAMAHA DS-XG Sound Card and RH 6.0 Linux release ("Kristaps Licis")
  Re: Flashpath and Linux? ("J. David Eisenberg")
  Re: Support for SB PCI128 on Redhat6.0 (Stuart Hall)
  Re: how to setup SoundBlaster 64 PCI PnP (Henrik Carlqvist)
  Re: Matrox G400 (Roger Kemp)
  Re: ide reset??? (Henrik Carlqvist)
  Re: Linux embedded i386 computer? (Wim Lewis)
  Re: 3COM Ethernet Card PROBLEM... (LhD Administrator)
  iomega SCSI controller usable? (Scott Krehbiel)
  Print filter help - Caldera 2.2 (Dan Warren)
  cheap modem! (Dan Chirica)
  Re: Dual processor and AMD (Alain BURET)
  ASUS V3800 Ultra TNT2 (Alain BURET)



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: L'Onda
Date: 27 Aug 1999 15:17:47 GMT

Saturday 4th and Sunday 5th September 1999 we are making L'Onda
(the Wave), a meeting of chatters and surfers.

In Treviglio (Bergamo-Italy) in the sports dome
with free entrance you'll find music, role games, surfing
and especially the chance to give an appointment to your
friends and look them finally in the eyes :-)

More info (on how to get there too) at 
http://raduno.mmguest.com/index1.htm

We are waiting for you
Greetings to all comp.os.linux.hardware

L'Onda staff [EMAIL PROTECTED]

--

From: "Michael Reep" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: 2 problems
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:47:53 -0500

First problem. I'm very new at linux so cut me some slack
1. I have a trident 9660 card (don't know what chipset or ramdac) and when I
installed Redhat6.0 and it probes for my card, it always returns 8pp (?) at
640x480. It's ok, but I'd rather have my display at 800x600 and I can't seem
to get it to do that. it works fine in windows at 800x600.

2. I have a Modem Blaster DI5630 (If anyone else has one of these please
help me) on COM3 (It's not a winmodem (it's got a rockwell chipset)). I
can't even get the dang thing to initialize in linux in Usernet. But minicom
seems to be able to pick it up. I"m wondering if the initialize string is
bad or something.

Thanks very much
Mike



--

From: "Tony Platt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: redhat.hardware.arch.intel
Subject: Re: Adaptec 78xx Hardware RAID and RH6
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 02:32:58 +1000

Redhat states that same thing for Compaq raid controllers and others (IBM
comes to mind)

But if you sniff a little further, you find that if you fiddle you can get
this type of setup to work. (I am not saying your setup will work
sorry --havn't tried that config-- ) but someone somewhere is probably
writing a driver right now for itif there isn't one already made 

I only had to wait a short time before someone wrote a driver for my raid
controllersYES 

Now I am a happy chappy.

My advice is search the net with every tool you can find...you never
know what you will find

Tony Platt


Alex Ibrado wrote in message ...
>Hello,
>
>I know that the Red Hat HW compatibility list says:
>
>"We currently do not support hardware raid in any of the Adaptec AIC78xx
>controllers."
>
>   and
>
>"Currently you cannot install Red Hat Linux's root partition onto a raid
>device."
>
>Unfortunately, I have to work with such hardware and I was wondering if
>someone out there has gotten HW RAID up and running on the 78xx series,
>preferrably booting off the RAID as well. Any pointers would be of help as
>the HOWTOs seem obsolete or not applicable. If not, a "got it going on
>Software RAID" note would also be appreciated. Thanks!
>
>--  Posted via CNET Linux Help  --
>http://www.searchlinux.com



--

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David A. Rogers)
Subject: Re: Which printer should I buy?
Date: 27 Aug 1999 15:06:47 GMT

On Sat, 21 Aug 1999 12:32:55 +0200, Ernst de Haan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
speaketh saying:
>Hi Linux nerds!
>
>I'm about to decide on which inkjet printer I will buy. Does any of you
>have any advice on this issue? I'd should work very well with Linux (and
>preferably also with FreeBSD). Any1 kno

Linux-Hardware Digest #113

1999-04-28 Thread Digestifier

Linux-Hardware Digest #113, Volume #10   Wed, 28 Apr 99 06:13:27 EDT

Contents:
  iomega ditto max and linux ("Piller")
  Re: Matrox Millenium MGA-G200 AGP under Redhat 5.2? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  halt -p not working??? help (Matthew Pound)
  Re: Epson Stylus 750 (Grant Taylor)
  Re: making linux go away ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: new computer. (hellraiser)
  Re: Adaptec 2940U/UW DUAL N (Stefan Negele)
  Ensoniq Soundscape Sound Card HELP! (jayhastings)
  Modem doesn't work with chat only? (Damir Cosic)
  Re: Video Problems ("Clifton T. Sharp Jr.")
  Re: free computer13 (James Lee)
  Can SlackWare do it? ("Alan W. Jurgensen")
  Re: Creatix ISDN S.0 card ("M.C. van den Bovenkamp")
  Sound Help! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: SCSI AVA1502 problems (Frithjof Anders)
  Re: soundblaster 32 AWE (Chollian Newsgroup User)
  Re: XFree86 problem on a Compaq Armada 1750 (Luke Bullock)
  Re: iomega ditto max and linux ("Piller")
  Re: ATI Rage 128 VR AGP w/ SONY CPD-200ES and HP--8485Z (David Pollard)
  Re: Sorry, but... Is this hardware compatable? (Richard S MERIFIELD)
  Philips PCA32 cdrom ("Erik de Groot")
  Re: Spontaneous reboots on a PII (Mikko Hyvarinen)
  Re: restoring keyboard repeat (**Nick Brown)



From: "Piller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: iomega ditto max and linux
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:04:01 -0700
Reply-To: "Piller" 

Has any one tried to use ditto on a linux box.
I have been thinking about getting it but am not sure if I  will be able use
it on a linux only system which I soon hope to have.

any help would be appreciated.



--

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Matrox Millenium MGA-G200 AGP under Redhat 5.2?
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:10:50 GMT

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
  "Darren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  If you use the latest version of SVGA.tgz then the functions that are
built into the  G200 will not be fully used.   I'm going to check and see
if the G200 is not supported.  I thought it was...
  Create a new x server with G200 functionality.

> I have exactly the same setup as you.
> Download the latest copy of XSVGA.tgz (or SVGA server) from the
> XFree86 site.
> untar it (tar -zxvf XSGVA.tgz) in /usr/X11R6,
> edit your XF86Config file,
> edit the section for "My Video Card"
> Make sure there is no clockchip setting,
> Videoram setting is correct and not commented out
> Should work ok
>
> Kieran & Hobbes wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >Can someone please tell me in English what I need to do to get a Matrox
> >Millenium MGA-G200 AGP card to work under Redhat 5.2?  I would really
> >appreciate it.  The install program doesn't find it correctly and after
> >I enter in the values for the card, it still doesn't work.
> >Any clues, tips etc etc.
> >Cheers
> >K
> >
> >--
> >K   I   E   R   A   N   G   A   R   B   U   T   T
> > Galaxie Internet & Information System Design
> > Dunedin, New Zealand
> >+64 (0-25) 2893497 / [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
>
>


= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network 
http://www.dejanews.com/   Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

--

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthew Pound)
Subject: halt -p not working??? help
Date: 28 Apr 1999 00:16:23 GMT

I have a Asus P2B-DS (ATX) and i have recompiled my kernel with 
support to power off my system with the use of poweroff or halt -p, but 
it doesn't work.  Does anyone know if i have to put something else in my 
kernel, or recompile halt or something?

Thanx.

--
To contact via email pounm000 AT unbc DOT ca

--

From: Grant Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Epson Stylus 750
Date: 27 Apr 1999 23:28:59 -0400

"John Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Is there any support for colour printing on an epson style 750 printer?
> I can't find anything to say that there is, and don't want to get one
> if I can't use it with linux,

Now is that a Stylus Photo 750, or is it a Stylus Color 750 (if such a
thing exists?).

The Photo 750 is listed as "mostly" working, although from the
comments it sounds more like "partially"; only 4 of the 6 inks are
used, which rather defeats the purpose of a 6-color printer.

I have no information on the Color 750, if there is one.

Since you appear to be searching for a good printer to buy, you might
want to work from the Printing HOWTO's compatibility list:
http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/pht/printer_list.cgi

There is a link at that URL for "all perfectly working color inkjets"

Linux-Hardware Digest #113

1999-01-05 Thread Digestifier

Linux-Hardware Digest #113, Volume #9 Tue, 5 Jan 99 20:13:33 EST

Contents:
  Re: LS120 (Richard Forster)
  Re: need to take action on the Winmodem problem (Bill Anderson)
  Re: HP Deskjet 697C -- Usable under Linux? (Bill Anderson)
  CALCOMP DRAWING PAD (Jos van Eunen)
  Re: linux on winbook xlii ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  3c905b - Forcing speed? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: Mounting CDROM ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: PLEASE HELP !!! PLEASE HELP !!! (Bill Anderson)
  Re: Need advice on what network cards to buy (Danny Willis)
  Multipass C5000 and Redhat Linux 5.2 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: Converting Serial port ttyS0 to ttyS1 (Guenther Wieser)
  Re: 19 inch monitor recommendations sought (James Turner)
  IBM token-ring cards & eathernet cards ("John Vine")
  Re: Create Bootable disk with LS-120 drive? (Mark Paulus)
  Re: External projector won't show X display
  HCT program? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  HP Deskjet 400 won't print ps - Help?! ("Alvaro A. Novo")
  Re: SCSI controller AIC-6x60 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: ZIP Drive mount ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: Want to do direct install of Redhat 5.2 via FTP since I have Cox@home but am 
stuck in the DUNGEONS OF DOOM !!! SO HEELP !!!
  Re: 3c905b - Forcing speed? (Dan Nguyen)
  Dell Servers (Alex Parfenov)



From: Richard Forster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: LS120
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 14:47:05 +
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Alberto Pueyo wrote:
> 
> I am installing a LS120 superdrive in my computer. I would appreciate if
> someone could let me know where to find some instructions on how to do
> this, so that linux recognizes it. (I'm using kernel 1.2.13; I want to
> install the LS drive to make a backup before trying to install kernel
> 2.0.35).
> 
Assuming this is an IDE version of the LS-120 and not the parallel port of which
I know nothing.
You're not going to get it to work with your 1.X kernel as 2.0.32 (or maybe 31)
was the first to support LS-120 drives.
However, fit the drive and boot with one of the modern single floppy distros
such as TOMSRTBT (find out about it on freshmeat). This comes with 2.0.36 and
recognises the LS-120 on boot up. I admit I can't remember actually _using_ my
LS-120 under such conditions but if it is seen and recognised in the boot
messages then I'm not worrying. Then mount your existing drive and the LS-120
and copy your stuff off. Hey you may even want to put a linux file system on the
LS-120 drive before you do the backup, it _does_ work, I use mine like this all
this time.

Lastly, you need to check that your motherboard can support these drives, if it
can't then no kernel version will help you.

Rick

-- 
.
 richard.forster at strath.ac.uk
emails with cool .sig suggestions welcome
.

--

From: Bill Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: need to take action on the Winmodem problem
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 14:52:14 -0700

Chris Lee wrote:
> 
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> >
> >On 29 Dec 1998 00:42:57 -0600, Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >>mlw ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> >>
> >>I avoid the problem by refusing all internal modems and only getting
> >>externals.  If there's no physical connection to the motherboard other
> >>than through a standard rs232 port, then I'm guaranteed that there's no
> >>way in hell it can offload some of its responsibility to the CPU no matter
> >>what it says on the box in the store.  Granted it costs about $10-15 more
> >>than an equivilent internal modem, but then you get Dasblinkelights on the
> >>modem.  You can never have too many blinkenlights.
> >
> >No. Forcing users to have another power plug on their desk and more
> >cables to cope with sucks pretty severely, even if Dasblinkelights
> >are extremely useful for troubleshooting.
> 
> It's the internal modems that suck dude. Try using/swaping that PC internal
> modem with another computer. What's that? It doesn't work with an Mac or an
> Amiga system? Looks like you have to buy another modem,dude

Why? Just run linux on that intel with ipmasq/ipchains and network it
all ;-)

--

From: Bill Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: HP Deskjet 697C -- Usable under Linux?
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 14:45:57 -0700

Equinox wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I received a Hewlett-Packard 697C printer as a Christmas gift.  I am
> wondering if this printer can be used with Linux.  (HP's website is
> absolutely useless, an