Re: Beards - conclusion
Dear Stewart, may I add that I did say. Until two years ago, I had a Gaultier-beard and matching long hair. Then came along a girl friend of mine who radically changed my modes. So, for now you should count me as clean-shaven :^) Stewart McCoy mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Dear All, The beard thread has run its course, so it is now appropriate to draw a conclusion. It has not been easy to calculate an accurate percentage of bearded lute-netters, because some people, like Ron Fletcher and Jon Murphy, have beards only for some of the time. One has to draw a line somewhere, so I count them both as bearded, along with Stephan Olbertz (who shaves only once a fortnight), but I don't include Bill Kilpatrick (stubbly most mornings). I assume from Al Padilla's cryptic joke that he is bearded. I include Arto Wikla, but only by a whisker. Bearded Stewart McCoy (Just for the record, I have a beard) Leonard Williams (Beard here) Bob Purrenhage (I, too, have a beard) Roman Turovsky (And so do I) Stephan Olbertz (If shaving only every two weeks counts) Thomas Schall (moustache and a certain laziness) Ron Fletcher (April to September only) Jon Murphy (bearded sometimes, and sometimes not) Al Padilla (I feel your pain) Gary Digman (then they levied one on me) Arto Wikla (perhaps called mosca) Doctor Oakroot (I have no idea how to shave) Daniel Heiman (Beard firmly in place) Clean-shaven Edward Martin (I do not have one) Bill Kilpatrick (stubbly most mornings) Donatella Galetti (I don't have a beard) Carl Donsbach (I wore a beard for a while) Didn't say Rainer aus dem Spring (how many female list members have a beard?) Paolo Declich (I can testify it) Stuart LeBlanc (resulting in the reduction of lute-related markets) That means that of the 17 people who have stated whether or not they are bearded, 13 are bearded, and only four clean shaven. That's a pretty high percentage of bearded lutenists. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -- Best wishes, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: FW: Beards - conclusion
Since this list is now archived on the net and google seems to find the individual posts quite rapidly, then if you don't want this message with its link google searchable you should ask Wayne to remove. Dear all, on Sun, 19 Dec 2004, Ron Fletcher wrote: Could someone host a page of our thumbnail-portraits to go on the 'Who are Lute-netter's' page? I have lost the URL. It is the link There are already some photos. And please, do not put a link to that page! The idea is that the page is public, but that the robots like Google cannot find it. At least mainly it uses links it can find in pages to which it has links - recursively... ;) Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Beards - conclusion
Am 19 Dec 2004 um 17:26 hat Mathias Rösel geschrieben: well, there certainly is a pun in the naming. I had to look up German spitzbart, which is that very beard I was referring to, in my dictionary and there it was: goatee. I suppose there wasn't much difference in pronounciation of goatee and Gaultier in 17th century English. And I have ever since assumed that special tuning was named in reference to the Gaultiers who had made it popular. This is nice! Stephan To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
RE: Instrument Sounding
Dear Denis, it is very interesting to watch craft skills and then see how their skills are passed on. After a career in anaesthetics I have watched a good many surgeons operate and the really skillful ones have been a joy to watch but they dont necessarily achieve speed through fast movements but by completely removing any un-necessary ones.These same surgeons are often very relaxed and talk while operating but keep up rhythmical movements without apparently tireing. When their collagues watch and try to copy they often copy the movement rather than the lack of it with the result that they remain slow without understanding why. This 'easy gracefulness' of the good surgeon is, IMHO, the same as you are desribing. TRaining is obviously important to achieve the right physical control over our hands but the gracefulness comes from other regions of the brain than just connected with motor -cordination. I sometimes play music through my Windows Media player and look at the colours that are produced and wonder whether it would be possible to use a form of feedback like colour when learning a piece. An american ski-instructor once told me that to learn to ski fast parallels the best way is to put on Bach with earphones and go with the rhythm. A speech Therapist, working on voice projection for actors,used a little game to move a shape on a computer screen when the inflection and pitch was adjusted correctly. In all these methods the person is not consciously concentrating on the real task, surgery/skiing/singing, but on the sideshow. I would be interested to hear whether these thought ring bells with others and, if so, how do we apply the ideas to lute playing? Best wishes Charles -Original Message- From: Denys Stephens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 December 2004 15:14 To: lute net Subject: Re: Instrument Sounding Dear Stephan All, I am intrigued to read from time to time accounts of applying varying degrees of control to the top joints of right hand fingers. My own experience is that I have no independent volition at all over whether my finger tips are fixed or flexible. It concerns me that any attempt to control this is likely to introduce unnecessary tension. Through years of working with Alexander Technique in playing I have attempted to allow the maximum possible level of relaxation and balance in my whole body, which inevitably leads to the hands functioning as nature intended them to do - without any mind set about stiffening or relaxing this or that finger joint. I think this is the easy gracefulness that Besarde / Dowland wrote about and encouraged, and it's my belief that this is likely to lead to the best possible sound when playing. We all, of course, have individual minor quirks of physiology: whilst it's fair to deduce that the hands of a great musician have a high level of proficiency when playing we cannot assume that our own hands would look the same in every detail if we attained that level of mastery ourselves. In fact, trying to copy them could be the very thing that stops us getting there. Best wishes, Denys No beard, incidentally! :-) - Original Message - From: Stephan Olbertz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 12:27 AM Subject: Re: Instrument Sounding Oh yes, thank you! Apparently he leaves the end joint fixed, that is to say: it's not bent passively in the opposite direction of the stroke. Regards, Stephan Am 18 Dec 2004 um 9:37 hat Daniel F Heiman geschrieben: Stephan: You can watch 6 seconds of Nigel North's right hand in action on the LSA Downloads page (unfortunately no sound included). http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/download/index.html#video Daniel Heiman On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:36:22 +0100 Stephan Olbertz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear Carl, this is quite interesting (although nails do not prevent such a technique, it all depends on filing and various angles). Did he teach the end joint to be flexible or not? And how do our best thumb-outsiders on the baroque lute (North and others) deal with this detail? Does someone have first hand experience? Regards, Stephan To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Beards - Final Conclusion
Dear All, My apologies to Mathias. I missed your earlier message, because it was marked SPAM by my server. I would like to think that the server was particularly adept at picking up badly spelt rude words in German :-), but unfortunately it marks many innocent Lute Net messages as Spam. Not only do I often overlook such messages; changing the subject title plays merry Hell with my filing system, so a message called Beards gets filed under S for Spam. I don't think Stuart Leblanc's stubble is quite enough to count as a beard, since it sometimes lasts only for a week. In view of these and other messages, I have updated my list with the following additions: Bearded Eugene Braig IV (I am bearded) Bruno Cognyl-Fournier (I am also bearded) Alain Veylit (I also have a beard) Clean Shaven Mathias Rösel (I had a Gaultier-beard) Stuart Leblanc (one to three weeks of stubble) Daniel Shoskes (No beard here) That brings the total to 16 bearded and seven clean shaven out of the 23 people who responded. The percentage of those sporting a beard is still remarkably high. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. - Original Message - From: Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lutelist [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 11:06 PM Subject: *** SPAM *** Re: beard Until some three years ago I tried to look like Denis Gaultier (on that sole fab pic by what's-his-name) in terms of hair-dressing. Then, a girl friend of mine said, Mathias du sieht scheisze aus so (no translation available). Which changed my mind. No long hair any longer, and no beard nor moustache. I still try to play Gaultier, and she says it's better now. -- Best, Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Beards - Final Conclusion
Update: Bearded Eugene Braig IV (I am bearded) Bruno Cognyl-Fournier (I am also bearded) Alain Veylit (I also have a beard) Ariel Abramovich (after years of effort, sort of have one) Clean Shaven Mathias Rösel (I had a Gaultier-beard) Stuart Leblanc (one to three weeks of stubble) Daniel Shoskes (No beard here) That brings the total to 16 bearded and seven clean shaven out of the 23 people who responded. The percentage of those sporting a beard is still remarkably high. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
another concert for you
Dear friends, today we (Juerg Meili from Switzerland and me) played a small recital to the benefit of a youth hostel in india and a school in tansania here in my hometown which I recorded. Maybe the one or the other wants to listen to it. I've put it on http://www.tslaute.de/mp3/sulzbach.zip The filesize is about 30 mb of mp3 (56kb/sec). I just have cut away the applause. The program are the two baroque lute duets by Georg Philipp Telemann, a duet by Silvius Leopold Weiss in the setting of the unforgotten and much missed Charly Schroeder and a concert by J.L.Gleimius. As encore we played a song by Zumsteeg (court composer of Frederick II. the great) in a setting of Roman Turovsky Sautschek. You all may have a merry christmas and a blessed new year. Thomas -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Beards - Final Conclusion
My apologies to Mathias. I missed your earlier message, because it was marked SPAM by my server. I would like to think that the server was particularly adept at picking up badly spelt rude words in German :-), but unfortunately it marks many innocent Lute Net messages as Spam. Not only do I often overlook such messages; changing the subject title plays merry Hell with my filing system... hehe, it's Human Against the Machine--reminds me of how i never used to get the messages of my friends Hellen Richard in England because the server automatically judged that it must be some kind of spam message as: get rich or go to hell:) -- Faites un voeu et puis Voila ! www.voila.fr -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: another concert for you
Well done, guys! Holding the audience's attention in a 16-stanza strophic ballad is no mean feat either. RT ps The outtake 3.5mb MP3 of the ballad and its PDF score are at http://polyhymnion.org/lieder/german.html for those for whom the entire pgm is too large to download From: Thomas Schall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear friends, today we (Juerg Meili from Switzerland and me) played a small recital to the benefit of a youth hostel in india and a school in tansania here in my hometown which I recorded. Maybe the one or the other wants to listen to it. I've put it on http://www.tslaute.de/mp3/sulzbach.zip The filesize is about 30 mb of mp3 (56kb/sec). I just have cut away the applause. The program are the two baroque lute duets by Georg Philipp Telemann, a duet by Silvius Leopold Weiss in the setting of the unforgotten and much missed Charly Schroeder and a concert by J.L.Gleimius. As encore we played a song by Zumsteeg (court composer of Frederick II. the great) in a setting of Roman Turovsky Sautschek. You all may have a merry christmas and a blessed new year. Thomas To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Beards - conclusion
Indeed. RT __ Roman M. Turovsky http://polyhymnion.org/swv Google found that page long ago. Wayne (no beard) Since this list is now archived on the net and google seems to find the individual posts quite rapidly, then if you don't want this message with its link google searchable you should ask Wayne to remove. Dear all, Could someone host a page of our thumbnail-portraits to go on the 'Who are Lute-netter's' page? I have lost the URL. It is the link There are already some photos. And please, do not put a link to that page! The idea is that the page is public, but that the robots like Google cannot find it. At least mainly it uses links it can find in pages to which it has links - recursively... ;) Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Instrument Sounding
Dear Dennis, what I'm aiming at seems me to be several completely natural variants of flexing the fingers. Years ago I got a bit into finger and hand anatomy and I found that there is a complicated but brilliant system of tendons in the fingers, both coming from bigger muscles in the lower arm and smaller ones in the hand (between the bones), which enables us to a huge variety of movements. One of this is a gripping or scratching kind of movement with what I called fixed end joint. You're right that the idea of fixing something isn't helpful in describing and/or learning a movement with the aim of a masterly relaxed and effortless playing technique, but I don't know how else to describe. Another possibility is to allow the endjoint to be hold back a bit by an object, maybe a string but you as well can try it on your table. The finger flexes, but the last joint does not and is somewhat bent back, as if there were something sticky on your table (I hope there is not :-). When applying this two movements to a lute course, you get different results in terms of sound colour, hitting both strings and a lot of other technical and musical aspects, including different kinds of gracefulness and body feel. These to me are necessary kind of observations: if I want to become better, I have to know what to do and learn to do it well. Everyone can jump somehow a metre high, but if you want to cross two metres you should learn techniques like straddle or Fosbury-flop and see what works. Sorry for the long post and best regards, Stephan Am 19 Dec 2004 um 15:14 hat Denys Stephens geschrieben: Dear Stephan All, I am intrigued to read from time to time accounts of applying varying degrees of control to the top joints of right hand fingers. My own experience is that I have no independent volition at all over whether my finger tips are fixed or flexible. It concerns me that any attempt to control this is likely to introduce unnecessary tension. Through years of working with Alexander Technique in playing I have attempted to allow the maximum possible level of relaxation and balance in my whole body, which inevitably leads to the hands functioning as nature intended them to do - without any mind set about stiffening or relaxing this or that finger joint. I think this is the easy gracefulness that Besarde / Dowland wrote about and encouraged, and it's my belief that this is likely to lead to the best possible sound when playing. We all, of course, have individual minor quirks of physiology: whilst it's fair to deduce that the hands of a great musician have a high level of proficiency when playing we cannot assume that our own hands would look the same in every detail if we attained that level of mastery ourselves. In fact, trying to copy them could be the very thing that stops us getting there. Best wishes, Denys No beard, incidentally! :-) - Original Message - From: Stephan Olbertz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 12:27 AM Subject: Re: Instrument Sounding Oh yes, thank you! Apparently he leaves the end joint fixed, that is to say: it's not bent passively in the opposite direction of the stroke. Regards, Stephan Am 18 Dec 2004 um 9:37 hat Daniel F Heiman geschrieben: Stephan: You can watch 6 seconds of Nigel North's right hand in action on the LSA Downloads page (unfortunately no sound included). http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/download/index.html#video Daniel Heiman On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:36:22 +0100 Stephan Olbertz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear Carl, this is quite interesting (although nails do not prevent such a technique, it all depends on filing and various angles). Did he teach the end joint to be flexible or not? And how do our best thumb-outsiders on the baroque lute (North and others) deal with this detail? Does someone have first hand experience? Regards, Stephan To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Instrument Sounding
Dear Eric, (I'm sending this to the list as you probably intended) thank you for your remarks. Unlike you I up to now tried to have the same technically idea for both thumb in and out, a flexible endjoint. I'm a full-time guitar teacher and while my renaissance lute technique works sufficiently well I am not really satisfied with my no-nails thumb-out ability on the guitar (though it was a nightmare in the beginning), not to speak of the baroque lute. Just this evening I experimented again a bit and found an interesting way of combining fixed and flexible endjoint, but it's to late now (2.40), I will write more tomorrow. Best regards, Stephan Am 18 Dec 2004 um 22:07 hat Eric Liefeld geschrieben: Hi Stephan, Its worth noting, that though Nigel plays thumb-out, he does not have nails... In fact, he sort has negative nails. He told me that his nails would never have added much anyway as they were not very strong. As for leaving the joint fixed. I think that works better for thumb-out. I play both thumb-out and thumb-under... for thumb-out I keep the joint fairly fixed... For thumb-under I let it flex. Of course my meager technique is nothing remarkable. Best, Eric Stephan Olbertz wrote: Oh yes, thank you! Apparently he leaves the end joint fixed, that is to say: it's not bent passively in the opposite direction of the stroke. Regards, Stephan Am 18 Dec 2004 um 9:37 hat Daniel F Heiman geschrieben: Stephan: You can watch 6 seconds of Nigel North's right hand in action on the LSA Downloads page (unfortunately no sound included). http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/download/index.html#video Daniel Heiman snip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Right hand technique/Instrument sounding
dear caroline - i damaged my hand slightly when i was a kid (fell on a rake) so a thumb-in/thumb-out discourse - instigated, no doubt, by some fussy fop in the baroque - has given way to comfy or no in my case. it could be the mineral water here in tuscany or the olive oil but both our fingernails - my wife's and mine - have become much healthier since moving here. regards - bill --- Caroline Chamberlain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Lute Listers I just do not understand how to play the lute courses with the right hand side of the fingers. Is this technique really necessary? And, as a guitarist who wants to keep playing the guitar, must I learn the thumb inside technique for the Renaissance lute? Nails have always been a problem for me as mine are weak and constantly splitting. Somehow, I have got around the problem, using the edge of the finger with the support of only a tiny bit of nail. Certainly the skin in that area, where nail meets finger, is a little harder than on the other side. I've never really analyzed exactly what I do, but I seem to be able to get reasonable tone and volume. I don't think that for lute playing, I need to get rid of the (shortish) nails that I do have. Many thanks, Regards Caroline -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html = and thus i made...a small vihuela from the shell of a creepy crawly... - Don Gonzalo de Guerrero (1512), Historias de la Conquista del Mayab by Fra Joseph of San Buenaventura. go to: http://www.charango.cl/paginas/quieninvento.htm ___ Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
