Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Gordon, With the utmost of respect, why would that be non-public if you 
don't mind me asking?  I could see it being so during the testing phaise, 
but it's been released at this point, the things that went on in testing are 
things in the past.  It would be like someone dies on the operating table. 
While alive, due to HIPA, you couldn't disclose any info about the patient 
if you were a medical specialist, but once they die, and you have their 
death cirtifiquet, who cares at that point.  They're dead!  It's not like 
saying anything medical about them would really per sé change anything. 
They're no longer here on earth, so regardless your spiritual or religious 
belief, the bottom line is, they're not on earth.  That we can't argue.  You 
can't change something private that is only of the past.  OK, that was kind 
of an insinsitive point, and I apologize for that, I realize that, but I 
hope that it truthly makes my point.


If there is something I don't get, then let me know, by all means, and I'll 
refrane from further testing discussion, but I'm totally baffeled.  Why 
would that be still on NDA.  Mavericks is out.  O, K, anything still! being 
developed in the present with Mavericks is one thing, that, I could see 
being on NDA, but as far as the section of part that went on prior, to the 
official release, I don't see where that couldn't be discussed at this 
point.


I mean, you're the mod.  If you say no discussion, no means no, but I 
mean... no offense... really though?


Again, quite obviously, I mean this with profuse all due respect, and 
absolutely no illed feelings are intended in this message toward you, Lynn, 
the list, nor Apple.


Chris.


Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.

http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland

For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
on Twitter.


http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
- Original Message - 
From: "Gordon Smith" 

To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit


Hi

I should make the point that although the operating system is now public, 
what went on in the test phase is very much still non-public.


Kind regards

<--- Gordon Smith --->

Information Technology Accessibility Consultant



Telephone:

United Kingdom:  Free Phone:
0800 8620538

Mobile:
+44 7907 823971

Europe and other non-specified:
+44 1642 688095

Or:
+44 1642 941776

United States Of America And Canada:
+1 646 9151493
Or:
+1 209 436 9443

Australasia:
+61 38 8205930
Or:
+61 39 0284505

Fax:
+44 1642 365123

Follow Us On Twitter:
<http://twitter.com/maciosaccess>

Skype:


--




On 23 Oct 2013, at 01:19, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


I guess now that we're no longer on NDA, I will say I agree with Zack.  I 
too, found that the testing cycle was not exactly the smoothest.  As I 
recall, there was even  one seed, I wanna say #3 if I remember correctly, 
that was so broken, it didn't even boot.


Anyway... yeah.

Chris.


Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.

http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland

For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow 
me on Twitter.


http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
- Original Message - From: "Zachary Kline" 
To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit



Hi,
Yes, I am, And have been for several months. The testing process has not 
been as smooth as in past releases, but I trust that things will 
eventually settle down. I just thought I should get the note out there, 
before some people upgraded and started panicking when iBooks didn't work 
as well as it could. :-)

All the best,
Zack.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:36 PM, Michael Marshall 
 wrote:


thanks zack,
are you using the new update?

On 23/10/2013, at 7:25 AM, Zachary Kline  wrote:

Hi Mike,
A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the 
new iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues 
have been addressed.

Best,
Zack.

On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:

Are there any new voiceover features?
Original message:

Hi All,


Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public 
release, it is acceptable to mention it on this list without 
violating the NDA. :) That being said, I want to gently suggest that 
VoiceOver users wait to upgrade for a little while, as there are 
still some issues unresolved from the accessibility testing process.
While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per 
se, they are significant enough to cause some confusion and 
annoyance. I suggest just waiting until at least the first general 
update to the sy

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Gordon, if you'd rather me write you about this off list on the support 
address instead, I'll be happy to refrane further from doing so on here, but 
just one extremely quick question about those books:  What format are they 
in?  Are they EPub?  Would I use something like IBooks, or Stanza to read 
them, or how exactly would that work?


Chris.


Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.

http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland

For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
on Twitter.


http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
- Original Message - 
From: "Gordon Smith" 

To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit



Hi Esther

Yes, these books are certainly available from us.  We haven’t had the 
opportunity to update the catalogue yet, but that is on my list of things 
to do for the next couple of days.  In the interim, if you’d like the 
books, by all means come to us with your request.

Kind regards

<--- Gordon Smith --->

Information Technology Accessibility Consultant




Telephone:

United Kingdom:  Free Phone:
0800 8620538

Mobile:
+44 7907 823971

Europe and other non-specified:
+44 1642 688095

Or:
+44 1642 941776

United States Of America And Canada:
+1 646 9151493
Or:
+1 209 436 9443

Australasia:
+61 38 8205930
Or:
+61 39 0284505

Fax:
+44 1642 365123

Follow Us On Twitter:
<http://twitter.com/maciosaccess>

Skype:


--




On 23 Oct 2013, at 00:17, Esther  wrote:


Bryan,

That's great news.  Does this work the same way it used to? By that I 
mean that you can use this to navigate threads (conversations) as well as 
your entire mailbox to go to the first or last message, by holding down 
the Option+Up or Down arrow key for a short time.


And is it also worth mentioning that there are new Take Control series 
eBooks for Upgrading to Mavericks, and for using iBooks, although I 
haven't seen the contents yet?  These should be eligible for purchase 
using the discount that is available to mac-access list subscribers.


To remind list members, there is information about this at:
http://www.mac-access.net/Take-Control.html

Note that the titles I mentioned are very recently announced additions 
that are not yet listed in the local accessible version of the Take 
Control catalog.


HTH. Cheers,

Esther

On Oct 22, 2013, at 12:11 PM, Bryan Jones wrote:

Call me easy to please, but I am thrilled that they’ve reinstated the 
ability to use the Option+Up/Down arrows to move to top and bottom 
message rows in Mavericks’ Mail.app


;-)

-Bryan

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to 
mac-access@mac-access.net


You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum 
at either the list's own dedicated web archive:

<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
or at the public Mail Archive:
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Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
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As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
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and worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
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something unpredictable happen.


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visiting the list website at:

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<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to 
mac-access@mac-access.net


You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum 
at either the list's own dedicated web archive:

<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
or at the public Mail Archive:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
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As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
unpredictable happen.


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<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Gordon Smith]

Hi

I should make the point that although the operating system is now public, what 
went on in the test phase is very much still non-public.

Kind regards

<--- Gordon Smith --->

Information Technology Accessibility Consultant



Telephone:

United Kingdom:  Free Phone:
0800 8620538

Mobile:
+44 7907 823971

Europe and other non-specified:
+44 1642 688095

Or:
+44 1642 941776

United States Of America And Canada:
+1 646 9151493
Or:
+1 209 436 9443

Australasia:
+61 38 8205930
Or:
+61 39 0284505

Fax:
+44 1642 365123

Follow Us On Twitter:
<http://twitter.com/maciosaccess>

Skype:


--




On 23 Oct 2013, at 01:19, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
wrote:

> I guess now that we're no longer on NDA, I will say I agree with Zack.  I 
> too, found that the testing cycle was not exactly the smoothest.  As I 
> recall, there was even  one seed, I wanna say #3 if I remember correctly, 
> that was so broken, it didn't even boot.
> 
> Anyway... yeah.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> 
> Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.
> 
> http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland
> 
> For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
> on Twitter.
> 
> http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
> - Original Message - From: "Zachary Kline" 
> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:41 PM
> Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit
> 
> 
>> Hi,
>> Yes, I am, And have been for several months. The testing process has not 
>> been as smooth as in past releases, but I trust that things will eventually 
>> settle down. I just thought I should get the note out there, before some 
>> people upgraded and started panicking when iBooks didn't work as well as it 
>> could. :-)
>> All the best,
>> Zack.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:36 PM, Michael Marshall  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> thanks zack,
>>> are you using the new update?
>>>> On 23/10/2013, at 7:25 AM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>> A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the new 
>>>> iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues have been 
>>>> addressed.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Zack.
>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Are there any new voiceover features?
>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, 
>>>>>> it is acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. 
>>>>>> :) That being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait 
>>>>>> to upgrade for a little while, as there are still some issues unresolved 
>>>>>> from the accessibility testing process.
>>>>>> While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, 
>>>>>> they are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I 
>>>>>> suggest just waiting until at least the first general update to the 
>>>>>> system before committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility 
>>>>>> is not all that might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, and 
>>>>>> will be improved in the coming weeks.
>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>>>> 
>>>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>>>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>>>> 
>>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access 
>>>>>> forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
>>>>>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
>>>>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
>>>>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
>>>>>> and worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace yo

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Gordon Smith]

Hi Esther

Yes, these books are certainly available from us.  We haven’t had the 
opportunity to update the catalogue yet, but that is on my list of things to do 
for the next couple of days.  In the interim, if you’d like the books, by all 
means come to us with your request.
Kind regards

<--- Gordon Smith --->

Information Technology Accessibility Consultant




Telephone:

United Kingdom:  Free Phone:
0800 8620538

Mobile:
+44 7907 823971

Europe and other non-specified:
+44 1642 688095

Or:
+44 1642 941776

United States Of America And Canada:
+1 646 9151493
Or:
+1 209 436 9443

Australasia:
+61 38 8205930
Or:
+61 39 0284505

Fax:
+44 1642 365123

Follow Us On Twitter:


Skype:


--




On 23 Oct 2013, at 00:17, Esther  wrote:

> Bryan,
> 
> That's great news.  Does this work the same way it used to? By that I mean 
> that you can use this to navigate threads (conversations) as well as your 
> entire mailbox to go to the first or last message, by holding down the 
> Option+Up or Down arrow key for a short time.
> 
> And is it also worth mentioning that there are new Take Control series eBooks 
> for Upgrading to Mavericks, and for using iBooks, although I haven't seen the 
> contents yet?  These should be eligible for purchase using the discount that 
> is available to mac-access list subscribers.
> 
> To remind list members, there is information about this at:
> http://www.mac-access.net/Take-Control.html
> 
> Note that the titles I mentioned are very recently announced additions that 
> are not yet listed in the local accessible version of the Take Control 
> catalog.
> 
> HTH. Cheers,
> 
> Esther
> 
> On Oct 22, 2013, at 12:11 PM, Bryan Jones wrote:
> 
>> Call me easy to please, but I am thrilled that they’ve reinstated the 
>> ability to use the Option+Up/Down arrows to move to top and bottom message 
>> rows in Mavericks’ Mail.app
>> 
>> ;-)
>> 
>> -Bryan
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> 
> or at the public Mail Archive:
> .
> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
> 
> 
> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
> unpredictable happen.
> 
> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
> visiting the list website at:
> 
> 

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
either the list's own dedicated web archive:

or at the public Mail Archive:
.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:


As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  
We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable 
happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting 
the list website at:

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Josh Gregory]

Yes, you should always, always perform backups.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 24, 2013, at 4:35 PM, Laurel And Stockard  
> wrote:
> 
> Is it necessary to back the computer up to the Time Machine in case the 
> Mavericks assistant does not work first before you start the install?
> 
> Laurel and Stockard
> 
>> On Oct 24, 2013, at 14:15, Josh Gregory  wrote:
>> 
>> First off,it is worth noting that unlike previous updates, this update is 
>> free. It took me about… Perhaps an hour and a half once I downloaded and 
>> installed everything, it's not hard, it downloads an application that will 
>> walk you through it.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 24, 2013, at 2:56 PM, Laurel and Stockard 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hey guys, is updating to the Mavericks OS 10.9 hard? How long on average 
>>> did it take you. I'm just curious before I actually do it.
>>> Thanks
>>> Laurel
 On Oct 24, 2013, at 9:49 AM, Bryan Jones wrote:
 
 Hi Zach,
 
 Yes, I too have adjusted to using the VO+Shift+Home/End keystroke to move 
 to top or bottom row ever since Apple removed the Option+up/down keystroke 
 when they released Lion Mail. The Option+up/down arrow keystroke has 
 remained available in Finder but has been missing in both Lion & ML Mail.
 
 The minor annoyance for me, as a frequent user of classic view in mail and 
 list view in Finder, is that the VO keystroke actually moves between the 
 first column of the first row and the last column of the last row, thus 
 requiring additional VO+left/right keystrokes to get back to my desired 
 column, whereas the Option+up/down keystroke leaves focus in the current 
 column while moving to top or bottom.
 
 Cheers,
 Bryan
 
> On Oct 23, 2013, at 11:29 PM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
> Seems a strange bug to creep i, and even stranger to be removed. Ahw ell, 
> I just use VO commands.
 
 <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
 
 To reply to this post, please address your message to 
 mac-access@mac-access.net
 
 You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum 
 at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
 
 or at the public Mail Archive:
 .
 Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
 
 
 As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
 that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
 worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
 strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
 unpredictable happen.
 
 Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
 visiting the list website at:
 
>>> 
>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>> 
>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>> 
>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum 
>>> at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>> 
>>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>>> .
>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>>> unpredictable happen.
>>> 
>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>>> visiting the list website at:
>>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
>> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>> 
>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>> .
>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>> 
>> 
>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>> unpredictable happen.

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Laurel And Stockard]

Is it necessary to back the computer up to the Time Machine in case the 
Mavericks assistant does not work first before you start the install?

Laurel and Stockard

> On Oct 24, 2013, at 14:15, Josh Gregory  wrote:
> 
> First off,it is worth noting that unlike previous updates, this update is 
> free. It took me about… Perhaps an hour and a half once I downloaded and 
> installed everything, it's not hard, it downloads an application that will 
> walk you through it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 24, 2013, at 2:56 PM, Laurel and Stockard  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hey guys, is updating to the Mavericks OS 10.9 hard? How long on average did 
>> it take you. I'm just curious before I actually do it.
>> Thanks
>> Laurel
>>> On Oct 24, 2013, at 9:49 AM, Bryan Jones wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Zach,
>>> 
>>> Yes, I too have adjusted to using the VO+Shift+Home/End keystroke to move 
>>> to top or bottom row ever since Apple removed the Option+up/down keystroke 
>>> when they released Lion Mail. The Option+up/down arrow keystroke has 
>>> remained available in Finder but has been missing in both Lion & ML Mail.
>>> 
>>> The minor annoyance for me, as a frequent user of classic view in mail and 
>>> list view in Finder, is that the VO keystroke actually moves between the 
>>> first column of the first row and the last column of the last row, thus 
>>> requiring additional VO+left/right keystrokes to get back to my desired 
>>> column, whereas the Option+up/down keystroke leaves focus in the current 
>>> column while moving to top or bottom.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Bryan
>>> 
 On Oct 23, 2013, at 11:29 PM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
 Seems a strange bug to creep i, and even stranger to be removed. Ahw ell, 
 I just use VO commands.
>>> 
>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>> 
>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>> 
>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum 
>>> at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>> 
>>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>>> .
>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>>> unpredictable happen.
>>> 
>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>>> visiting the list website at:
>>> 
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
>> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>> 
>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>> .
>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>> 
>> 
>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>> unpredictable happen.
>> 
>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>> visiting the list website at:
>> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> 
> or at the public Mail Archive:
> .
> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
> 
> 
> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
> unpredictable happen.
> 
> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
> visiting the list website at:
> 
> 
<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, p

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Josh Gregory]

First off,it is worth noting that unlike previous updates, this update is free. 
It took me about… Perhaps an hour and a half once I downloaded and installed 
everything, it's not hard, it downloads an application that will walk you 
through it.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 24, 2013, at 2:56 PM, Laurel and Stockard  
> wrote:
> 
> Hey guys, is updating to the Mavericks OS 10.9 hard? How long on average did 
> it take you. I'm just curious before I actually do it.
> Thanks
> Laurel
>> On Oct 24, 2013, at 9:49 AM, Bryan Jones wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Zach,
>> 
>> Yes, I too have adjusted to using the VO+Shift+Home/End keystroke to move to 
>> top or bottom row ever since Apple removed the Option+up/down keystroke when 
>> they released Lion Mail. The Option+up/down arrow keystroke has remained 
>> available in Finder but has been missing in both Lion & ML Mail.
>> 
>> The minor annoyance for me, as a frequent user of classic view in mail and 
>> list view in Finder, is that the VO keystroke actually moves between the 
>> first column of the first row and the last column of the last row, thus 
>> requiring additional VO+left/right keystrokes to get back to my desired 
>> column, whereas the Option+up/down keystroke leaves focus in the current 
>> column while moving to top or bottom.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Bryan
>> 
>>> On Oct 23, 2013, at 11:29 PM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>>> Seems a strange bug to creep i, and even stranger to be removed. Ahw ell, I 
>>> just use VO commands.
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
>> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>> 
>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>> .
>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>> 
>> 
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Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Laurel and Stockard]

Hey guys, is updating to the Mavericks OS 10.9 hard? How long on average did it 
take you. I'm just curious before I actually do it.
Thanks
Laurel
On Oct 24, 2013, at 9:49 AM, Bryan Jones wrote:

> Hi Zach,
> 
> Yes, I too have adjusted to using the VO+Shift+Home/End keystroke to move to 
> top or bottom row ever since Apple removed the Option+up/down keystroke when 
> they released Lion Mail. The Option+up/down arrow keystroke has remained 
> available in Finder but has been missing in both Lion & ML Mail.
> 
> The minor annoyance for me, as a frequent user of classic view in mail and 
> list view in Finder, is that the VO keystroke actually moves between the 
> first column of the first row and the last column of the last row, thus 
> requiring additional VO+left/right keystrokes to get back to my desired 
> column, whereas the Option+up/down keystroke leaves focus in the current 
> column while moving to top or bottom.
> 
> Cheers,
> Bryan
> 
> On Oct 23, 2013, at 11:29 PM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>> Seems a strange bug to creep i, and even stranger to be removed. Ahw ell, I 
>> just use VO commands.
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
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Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Bryan Jones]

Hi Zach,

Yes, I too have adjusted to using the VO+Shift+Home/End keystroke to move to 
top or bottom row ever since Apple removed the Option+up/down keystroke when 
they released Lion Mail. The Option+up/down arrow keystroke has remained 
available in Finder but has been missing in both Lion & ML Mail.

The minor annoyance for me, as a frequent user of classic view in mail and list 
view in Finder, is that the VO keystroke actually moves between the first 
column of the first row and the last column of the last row, thus requiring 
additional VO+left/right keystrokes to get back to my desired column, whereas 
the Option+up/down keystroke leaves focus in the current column while moving to 
top or bottom.

Cheers,
Bryan

On Oct 23, 2013, at 11:29 PM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
> Seems a strange bug to creep i, and even stranger to be removed. Ahw ell, I 
> just use VO commands.

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

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Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Zachary Kline]

Seems a strange bug to creep i, and even stranger to be removed. Ahw ell, I 
just use VO commands.
Best,
Zack.
On Oct 23, 2013, at 8:26 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:

> I also can confirm in the official release that this doesn't seem to be 
> working.  I tried both with classic view on and also with it off.
> 
> I get no response.  Complete zilch.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> 
> Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.
> 
> http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland
> 
> For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
> on Twitter.
> 
> http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
> - Original Message - From: "Bryan Jones" 
> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 11:21 PM
> Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit
> 
> 
>> Hi Jeff — This works for me as described in both classic & standard views. 
>> Option+up or down arrow moves to top or bottom row of current column in 
>> current message list.
>> 
>> I am running a pre-release version of Mavericks, so there’s a chance the 
>> folks at Apple removed this ability in the public release.
>> 
>> Do you get any type of response when pressing Option+up or down? Does it 
>> make an error sound? Does it move one row?
>> 
>> -Bryan
>> 
>> On Oct 23, 2013, at 9:46 PM, Geoff Stephens  wrote:
>> I cannot duplicate any use at all for Option Up or Down Arrow in the message 
>> list. What am I missing? Is this only in classic view?  I have not checked 
>> there.
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
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>> mac-access@mac-access.net
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>> unpredictable happen.
>> 
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>> 
> 
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Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I also can confirm in the official release that this doesn't seem to be 
working.  I tried both with classic view on and also with it off.


I get no response.  Complete zilch.

Chris.


Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.

http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland

For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
on Twitter.


http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
- Original Message - 
From: "Bryan Jones" 

To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit


Hi Jeff — This works for me as described in both classic & standard views. 
Option+up or down arrow moves to top or bottom row of current column in 
current message list.


I am running a pre-release version of Mavericks, so there’s a chance the 
folks at Apple removed this ability in the public release.


Do you get any type of response when pressing Option+up or down? Does it 
make an error sound? Does it move one row?


-Bryan

On Oct 23, 2013, at 9:46 PM, Geoff Stephens  wrote:
I cannot duplicate any use at all for Option Up or Down Arrow in the 
message list. What am I missing? Is this only in classic view?  I have not 
checked there.


<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to 
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Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Bryan Jones]

Hi Jeff — This works for me as described in both classic & standard views. 
Option+up or down arrow moves to top or bottom row of current column in current 
message list.

I am running a pre-release version of Mavericks, so there’s a chance the folks 
at Apple removed this ability in the public release.

Do you get any type of response when pressing Option+up or down? Does it make 
an error sound? Does it move one row?

-Bryan

On Oct 23, 2013, at 9:46 PM, Geoff Stephens  wrote:
I cannot duplicate any use at all for Option Up or Down Arrow in the message 
list. What am I missing? Is this only in classic view?  I have not checked 
there.

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

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Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Geoff Stephens]

I cannot duplicate any use at all for Option Up or Down Arrow in the message 
list. What am I missing? Is this only in classic view?  I have not checked 
there.

On Oct 22, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Esther  wrote:

Bryan,

That's great news.  Does this work the same way it used to? By that I mean that 
you can use this to navigate threads (conversations) as well as your entire 
mailbox to go to the first or last message, by holding down the Option+Up or 
Down arrow key for a short time.

And is it also worth mentioning that there are new Take Control series eBooks 
for Upgrading to Mavericks, and for using iBooks, although I haven't seen the 
contents yet?  These should be eligible for purchase using the discount that is 
available to mac-access list subscribers.

To remind list members, there is information about this at:
http://www.mac-access.net/Take-Control.html

Note that the titles I mentioned are very recently announced additions that are 
not yet listed in the local accessible version of the Take Control catalog.

HTH. Cheers,

Esther

On Oct 22, 2013, at 12:11 PM, Bryan Jones wrote:

> Call me easy to please, but I am thrilled that they’ve reinstated the ability 
> to use the Option+Up/Down arrows to move to top and bottom message rows in 
> Mavericks’ Mail.app
> 
> ;-)
> 
> -Bryan
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Re: Mavericks and Mail, was: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[matthew dyer]

Hi Chris,

There is an image that vo announces  which is the unreread tag.  I will say is 
that the number of messages in a conversation is no longer being announced.  
Anyone else seeing this?  Thanks.


matthew dyer 
sent from my 27 inch iMac.



facebook, facetime and iMessage: ilovecountrymusic...@gmail.com

Skype: graduater2004




On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:25 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:

> One thing about Mail I'm noticing that I, can, not, stand! that has been this 
> way since the Gold Master is Voiceover isn't seeming to report any longer 
> that messages are read, or unread.  Maybe I did something to turn it off, but 
> I'm not aware of anything.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> 
> Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.
> 
> http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland
> 
> For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
> on Twitter.
> 
> http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
> - Original Message - From: "Bryan Jones" 
> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 6:11 PM
> Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit
> 
> 
> Call me easy to please, but I am thrilled that they’ve reinstated the ability 
> to use the Option+Up/Down arrows to move to top and bottom message rows in 
> Mavericks’ Mail.app
> 
> ;-)
> 
> -Bryan
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
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Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Josh Gregory]

If you don't really use iBooks I think it is, a couple weird things here and 
there but I guess that is to be expected. Certainly not as bad as iOS 7 Imo

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 23, 2013, at 2:01 AM, Ian McNamara  wrote:
> 
> Hi thanks for the heads up, please keep us updated when the system is 
> suitable for voice over users to upgrade to.
> 
> Ian McNamara
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
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Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Chris H]

Updating my mac now and already have seen two incompatible updates so 
they must be for Mavericks only.


E-mail Facebook and iMessage
christopher...@gmail.com

On 23/10/2013 02:36, Linda C. Knight wrote:



I am wondering if I need to update to the mavricks?

Is it necessary?

WouIf I don't update to Mavricks, would this interfere with updates to
Mountain Lion?

Or, will there be updates to Mountain Lion.

Being a new mac user, I would appreciate any tips on this.

Thanks.


Hugs and 73
Linda C. Knight & shirley
CallSign: kk4hrg
Please note email:
l...@tampabay.rr.com


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.


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Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Ian McNamara]

Hi thanks for the heads up, please keep us updated when the system is suitable 
for voice over users to upgrade to.

Ian McNamara
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Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Christopher Gilland]

OK Coolness.  I just wanted to be sure.

Chris.

On Oct 23, 2013, at 12:41 AM, Zachary Kline  wrote:

> Hi Chris,
> I went into the Purchases tab and redownloaded from there, I suspect it’s 
> pretty much comparable to what you did.
> Best,
> Zack.
> On Oct 22, 2013, at 9:29 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>  wrote:
> 
>> I'm wonderring if I took the correct steps to update from my GM to the 
>> official release, being that I'm seeing some odd behaviors here and there. 
>> It's nothing major, definitely not, but it's enough to make me kind a wonder.
>> 
>> What I personally did was I went to software update from within the GM, and 
>> then hit command+5 for updates.  I didn't see anything for Mavericks, so I 
>> then went back to the search box in my toolbar with command+F, then typed in 
>> Maverick, and the first result that popped up was it.  I then hit the 
>> download button, and then proceeded as usual.
>> 
>> I'm wonderring if I should have not necessarily repartitioned and 
>> reformatted, God forbid, but maybe I still should have reinstalled from the 
>> recovery partition.  I'm just wonderring what is the best way to update from 
>> a seed or a GM to the real thing, just so I'll know for the future.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> 
>> Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.
>> 
>> http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland
>> 
>> For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
>> on Twitter.
>> 
>> http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
>> - Original Message - From: "Bryan Jones" 
>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 9:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit
>> 
>> 
>>> Sorry Esther, the keystroke does not seem to recognize threads, and there 
>>> seems to be no delay after pressing option+arrow. The focus immediately 
>>> moves to the top or bottom message in the current mailbox.
>>> 
>>> I am running the GM, so this behavior may be different in today’s public 
>>> release.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Bryan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Esther  wrote:
>>>> That's great news.  Does this work the same way it used to? By that I mean 
>>>> that you can use this to navigate threads (conversations) as well as your 
>>>> entire mailbox to go to the first or last message, by holding down the 
>>>> Option+Up or Down arrow key for a short time.
>>> 
>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>> 
>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>> 
>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum 
>>> at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
>>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>
>>> 
>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>>> unpredictable happen.
>>> 
>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>>> visiting the list website at:
>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>
>>> 
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
>> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>
>> 
>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan,

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Yeah, I don't wanna veer off topic, so I'll close that IPad discussion on 
this thread now while it's incredibly young, but yeah, I got a 4th gen, and 
also a mini, and don't know how I ever lived without 'em.  I can't wait! to 
see the new IPad Air that was announced.


Anyway, again, we're getting off base, so I'll end it here... LOL!  Smile.

Chris.


Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.

http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland

For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
on Twitter.


http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
- Original Message - 
From: "Zachary Kline" 

To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit


I have an iPad mini. It’s a great little device.
Best,
Zack.
On Oct 22, 2013, at 9:23 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:



OK, I'll make sure I have it set that way.

BTW, saw your signature, Sent from my IPad.  Which model have you got?  I 
love! mine!


Chris.


Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.

http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland

For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow 
me on Twitter.


http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
- Original Message - From: "Zachary Kline" 
To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit


The default for new documents seems to be wrap to page, which you don't 
want. Yo no you have it on the right setting when it tells you that 
you've activated wrapp to  window.


Sent from my iPad

On Oct 22, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Christopher Gilland 
 wrote:


So, do we want wrap to Window, or wrap to page?

Chris.

On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:33 PM, Zachary Kline  
wrote:


This is a known issue.
WIt has to do with one particular setting, “Wrap to Page,” which you 
can toggle off by hitting cmd-shift-w.

Best,
Zack.
On Oct 22, 2013, at 5:31 PM, Josh Gregory  
wrote:


Has anybody noticed that text edit seems to lose focus easily in 
documents?


Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:19 PM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland" 
 wrote:


I guess now that we're no longer on NDA, I will say I agree with 
Zack. I too, found that the testing cycle was not exactly the 
smoothest.  As I recall, there was even  one seed, I wanna say #3 if 
I remember correctly, that was so broken, it didn't even boot.


Anyway... yeah.

Chris.


Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have 
recorded.


http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland

For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to 
follow me on Twitter.


http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
- Original Message - From: "Zachary Kline" 


To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit



Hi,
Yes, I am, And have been for several months. The testing process has 
not been as smooth as in past releases, but I trust that things will 
eventually settle down. I just thought I should get the note out 
there, before some people upgraded and started panicking when iBooks 
didn't work as well as it could. :-)

All the best,
Zack.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:36 PM, Michael Marshall 
 wrote:


thanks zack,
are you using the new update?
On 23/10/2013, at 7:25 AM, Zachary Kline  
wrote:


Hi Mike,
A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with 
the new iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility 
issues have been addressed.

Best,
Zack.
On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  
wrote:


Are there any new voiceover features?
Original message:

Hi All,


Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public 
release, it is acceptable to mention it on this list without 
violating the NDA. :) That being said, I want to gently suggest 
that VoiceOver users wait to upgrade for a little while, as 
there are still some issues unresolved from the accessibility 
testing process.
While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, 
per se, they are significant enough to cause some confusion and 
annoyance. I suggest just waiting until at least the first 
general update to the system before committing yourself. In 
particular, iBooks accessibility is not all that might be 
hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, and will be improved 
in the coming weeks.

Warmest regards,
Zack.
<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->


To reply to this post, please address your message to 
mac-access@mac-access.net


You can find an archive of all messages postedto the 
Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive:

<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
or at the public Mail Archive:
<http://www.mail-arch

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Zachary Kline]

Hi Chris,
I went into the Purchases tab and redownloaded from there, I suspect it’s 
pretty much comparable to what you did.
Best,
Zack.
On Oct 22, 2013, at 9:29 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:

> I'm wonderring if I took the correct steps to update from my GM to the 
> official release, being that I'm seeing some odd behaviors here and there. 
> It's nothing major, definitely not, but it's enough to make me kind a wonder.
> 
> What I personally did was I went to software update from within the GM, and 
> then hit command+5 for updates.  I didn't see anything for Mavericks, so I 
> then went back to the search box in my toolbar with command+F, then typed in 
> Maverick, and the first result that popped up was it.  I then hit the 
> download button, and then proceeded as usual.
> 
> I'm wonderring if I should have not necessarily repartitioned and 
> reformatted, God forbid, but maybe I still should have reinstalled from the 
> recovery partition.  I'm just wonderring what is the best way to update from 
> a seed or a GM to the real thing, just so I'll know for the future.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> 
> Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.
> 
> http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland
> 
> For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
> on Twitter.
> 
> http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
> - Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Jones" 
> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 9:30 PM
> Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit
> 
> 
>> Sorry Esther, the keystroke does not seem to recognize threads, and there 
>> seems to be no delay after pressing option+arrow. The focus immediately 
>> moves to the top or bottom message in the current mailbox.
>> 
>> I am running the GM, so this behavior may be different in today’s public 
>> release.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Bryan
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Esther  wrote:
>>> That's great news.  Does this work the same way it used to? By that I mean 
>>> that you can use this to navigate threads (conversations) as well as your 
>>> entire mailbox to go to the first or last message, by holding down the 
>>> Option+Up or Down arrow key for a short time.
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
>> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>
>> 
>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>> unpredictable happen.
>> 
>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>> visiting the list website at:
>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>
>> 
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
> or at the public Mail Archive:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>
> 
> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
> unpredictable happen.
> 
> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
> visiting the list website at:
> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>
> 

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your me

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Well, the short answer is, no.  The long answer is, yes, and, no.

Yes, I would update, if your mac supports it, which if you got it in the 
last year or two, it definitely! beyond a doubt should.  As for it 
interfering with ML updates, neh...  You'll be fine.  At least, for the time 
being.  That's kind of where the yes and no comes into play.  Yes, you'll be 
fine for now.  No, you won't be fine in the long run down the road.  I mean, 
it'll probably take a year to a year and a half before ML updates are no 
longer downloadable, however, that's quite a ways in the future.  If you 
don't feel comfortable upgrading, you have two options, either wait it out, 
or call my company, and for $5 via PayPal we'll assist you or anyone else 
with the installation who may need some help along the way, or just want 
someone experienced to look over their shoulder whilst they do it.


We're open Mon-Fri from 8:00AM to 5:00PM, and closed on weekends and 
holidays.


704-256-0067, and choose the option for Tech Support.

Again though, not trying to make a sales pitch, it's just an option I wanted 
to throw at you.  Honestly, there is no reason per sé that says you *have!* 
to update, although personally, I would highly recommend it, myself.


Chris.


Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.

http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland

For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
on Twitter.


http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
- Original Message - 
From: "Linda C. Knight" 

To: "'Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility'" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 9:36 PM
Subject: RE: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit





I am wondering if I need to update to the mavricks?

Is it necessary?

WouIf I don't update to Mavricks, would this interfere with updates to
Mountain Lion?

Or, will there be updates to Mountain Lion.

Being a new mac user, I would appreciate any tips on this.

Thanks.


Hugs and 73
Linda C. Knight & shirley
CallSign: kk4hrg
Please note email:
l...@tampabay.rr.com


<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to 
mac-access@mac-access.net


You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum 
at either the list's own dedicated web archive:

<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
or at the public Mail Archive:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>

As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
unpredictable happen.


Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
visiting the list website at:

<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>



<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
either the list's own dedicated web archive:
<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
or at the public Mail Archive:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>

As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  
We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable 
happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting 
the list website at:
<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Zachary Kline]

I have an iPad mini. It’s a great little device.
Best,
Zack.
On Oct 22, 2013, at 9:23 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:

> OK, I'll make sure I have it set that way.
> 
> BTW, saw your signature, Sent from my IPad.  Which model have you got?  I 
> love! mine!
> 
> Chris.
> 
> 
> Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.
> 
> http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland
> 
> For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
> on Twitter.
> 
> http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
> - Original Message - From: "Zachary Kline" 
> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 8:46 PM
> Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit
> 
> 
>> The default for new documents seems to be wrap to page, which you don't 
>> want. Yo no you have it on the right setting when it tells you that you've 
>> activated wrapp to  window.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Christopher Gilland  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> So, do we want wrap to Window, or wrap to page?
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:33 PM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> This is a known issue.
>>>> WIt has to do with one particular setting, “Wrap to Page,” which you can 
>>>> toggle off by hitting cmd-shift-w.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Zack.
>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 5:31 PM, Josh Gregory  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Has anybody noticed that text edit seems to lose focus easily in 
>>>>> documents?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:19 PM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland" 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I guess now that we're no longer on NDA, I will say I agree with Zack. I 
>>>>>> too, found that the testing cycle was not exactly the smoothest.  As I 
>>>>>> recall, there was even  one seed, I wanna say #3 if I remember 
>>>>>> correctly, that was so broken, it didn't even boot.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Anyway... yeah.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chris.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to 
>>>>>> follow me on Twitter.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
>>>>>> - Original Message - From: "Zachary Kline" 
>>>>>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:41 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> Yes, I am, And have been for several months. The testing process has 
>>>>>>> not been as smooth as in past releases, but I trust that things will 
>>>>>>> eventually settle down. I just thought I should get the note out there, 
>>>>>>> before some people upgraded and started panicking when iBooks didn't 
>>>>>>> work as well as it could. :-)
>>>>>>> All the best,
>>>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:36 PM, Michael Marshall 
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> thanks zack,
>>>>>>>> are you using the new update?
>>>>>>>>> On 23/10/2013, at 7:25 AM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>>>>>> A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with 
>>>>>>>>> the new iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility 
>>>>>>>>> issues have been addressed.
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I'm wonderring if I took the correct steps to update from my GM to the 
official release, being that I'm seeing some odd behaviors here and there. 
It's nothing major, definitely not, but it's enough to make me kind a 
wonder.


What I personally did was I went to software update from within the GM, and 
then hit command+5 for updates.  I didn't see anything for Mavericks, so I 
then went back to the search box in my toolbar with command+F, then typed in 
Maverick, and the first result that popped up was it.  I then hit the 
download button, and then proceeded as usual.


I'm wonderring if I should have not necessarily repartitioned and 
reformatted, God forbid, but maybe I still should have reinstalled from the 
recovery partition.  I'm just wonderring what is the best way to update from 
a seed or a GM to the real thing, just so I'll know for the future.


Chris.


Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.

http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland

For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
on Twitter.


http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
- Original Message - 
From: "Bryan Jones" 

To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit


Sorry Esther, the keystroke does not seem to recognize threads, and there 
seems to be no delay after pressing option+arrow. The focus immediately 
moves to the top or bottom message in the current mailbox.


I am running the GM, so this behavior may be different in today’s public 
release.


Cheers,
Bryan


On Oct 22, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Esther  wrote:
That's great news.  Does this work the same way it used to? By that I 
mean that you can use this to navigate threads (conversations) as well as 
your entire mailbox to go to the first or last message, by holding down 
the Option+Up or Down arrow key for a short time.


<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to 
mac-access@mac-access.net


You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum 
at either the list's own dedicated web archive:

<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
or at the public Mail Archive:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>

As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
unpredictable happen.


Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
visiting the list website at:

<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>




<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
either the list's own dedicated web archive:
<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
or at the public Mail Archive:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>

As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  
We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable 
happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting 
the list website at:
<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

OK, I'll make sure I have it set that way.

BTW, saw your signature, Sent from my IPad.  Which model have you got?  I 
love! mine!


Chris.


Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.

http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland

For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
on Twitter.


http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
- Original Message - 
From: "Zachary Kline" 

To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit


The default for new documents seems to be wrap to page, which you don't 
want. Yo no you have it on the right setting when it tells you that you've 
activated wrapp to  window.


Sent from my iPad

On Oct 22, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Christopher Gilland 
 wrote:


So, do we want wrap to Window, or wrap to page?

Chris.


On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:33 PM, Zachary Kline  wrote:

This is a known issue.
WIt has to do with one particular setting, “Wrap to Page,” which you can 
toggle off by hitting cmd-shift-w.

Best,
Zack.

On Oct 22, 2013, at 5:31 PM, Josh Gregory  wrote:

Has anybody noticed that text edit seems to lose focus easily in 
documents?


Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:19 PM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland" 
 wrote:


I guess now that we're no longer on NDA, I will say I agree with Zack. 
I too, found that the testing cycle was not exactly the smoothest.  As 
I recall, there was even  one seed, I wanna say #3 if I remember 
correctly, that was so broken, it didn't even boot.


Anyway... yeah.

Chris.


Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have 
recorded.


http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland

For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to 
follow me on Twitter.


http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
- Original Message - From: "Zachary Kline" 


To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit



Hi,
Yes, I am, And have been for several months. The testing process has 
not been as smooth as in past releases, but I trust that things will 
eventually settle down. I just thought I should get the note out 
there, before some people upgraded and started panicking when iBooks 
didn't work as well as it could. :-)

All the best,
Zack.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:36 PM, Michael Marshall 
 wrote:


thanks zack,
are you using the new update?
On 23/10/2013, at 7:25 AM, Zachary Kline  
wrote:


Hi Mike,
A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with 
the new iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility 
issues have been addressed.

Best,
Zack.
On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  
wrote:


Are there any new voiceover features?
Original message:

Hi All,


Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public 
release, it is acceptable to mention it on this list without 
violating the NDA. :) That being said, I want to gently suggest 
that VoiceOver users wait to upgrade for a little while, as there 
are still some issues unresolved from the accessibility testing 
process.
While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, 
per se, they are significant enough to cause some confusion and 
annoyance. I suggest just waiting until at least the first 
general update to the system before committing yourself. In 
particular, iBooks accessibility is not all that might be 
hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, and will be improved 
in the coming weeks.

Warmest regards,
Zack.
<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->


To reply to this post, please address your message to 
mac-access@mac-access.net


You can find an archive of all messages postedto the 
Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive:

<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
or at the public Mail Archive:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>


As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to 
ensure that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, 
Trojan, virus and worm-free.  However, this should in no way 
replace your own security strategy.  We assume neither liability 
nor responsibility should something unpredictable happen.


Please remember to update your membership preferences 
periodically by visiting the list website at:

<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to 
mac-access@mac-access.net


You can find an archive of all messages postedto the 
Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive:

<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/ind

RE: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Linda C. Knight]

I am wondering if I need to update to the mavricks?

Is it necessary? 

WouIf I don't update to Mavricks, would this interfere with updates to
Mountain Lion?

Or, will there be updates to Mountain Lion.

Being a new mac user, I would appreciate any tips on this.

Thanks.


Hugs and 73
Linda C. Knight & shirley
CallSign: kk4hrg
Please note email:
l...@tampabay.rr.com


<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
either the list's own dedicated web archive:

or at the public Mail Archive:
.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:


As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  
We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable 
happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting 
the list website at:

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Bryan Jones]

Sorry Esther, the keystroke does not seem to recognize threads, and there seems 
to be no delay after pressing option+arrow. The focus immediately moves to the 
top or bottom message in the current mailbox.

I am running the GM, so this behavior may be different in today’s public 
release.

Cheers,
Bryan


On Oct 22, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Esther  wrote:
> That's great news.  Does this work the same way it used to? By that I mean 
> that you can use this to navigate threads (conversations) as well as your 
> entire mailbox to go to the first or last message, by holding down the 
> Option+Up or Down arrow key for a short time.

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
either the list's own dedicated web archive:

or at the public Mail Archive:
.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:


As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  
We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable 
happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting 
the list website at:

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Zachary Kline]

The default for new documents seems to be wrap to page, which you don't want. 
Yo no you have it on the right setting when it tells you that you've activated 
wrapp to  window.

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 22, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Christopher Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> So, do we want wrap to Window, or wrap to page?
> 
> Chris.
> 
>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:33 PM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>> 
>> This is a known issue.
>> WIt has to do with one particular setting, “Wrap to Page,” which you can 
>> toggle off by hitting cmd-shift-w.
>> Best,
>> Zack.
>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 5:31 PM, Josh Gregory  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Has anybody noticed that text edit seems to lose focus easily in documents?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:19 PM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland" 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I guess now that we're no longer on NDA, I will say I agree with Zack.  I 
>>>> too, found that the testing cycle was not exactly the smoothest.  As I 
>>>> recall, there was even  one seed, I wanna say #3 if I remember correctly, 
>>>> that was so broken, it didn't even boot.
>>>> 
>>>> Anyway... yeah.
>>>> 
>>>> Chris.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland
>>>> 
>>>> For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow 
>>>> me on Twitter.
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
>>>> - Original Message - From: "Zachary Kline" 
>>>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:41 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> Yes, I am, And have been for several months. The testing process has not 
>>>>> been as smooth as in past releases, but I trust that things will 
>>>>> eventually settle down. I just thought I should get the note out there, 
>>>>> before some people upgraded and started panicking when iBooks didn't work 
>>>>> as well as it could. :-)
>>>>> All the best,
>>>>> Zack.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:36 PM, Michael Marshall 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> thanks zack,
>>>>>> are you using the new update?
>>>>>>> On 23/10/2013, at 7:25 AM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>>>> A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the 
>>>>>>> new iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues 
>>>>>>> have been addressed.
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Are there any new voiceover features?
>>>>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public 
>>>>>>>>> release, it is acceptable to mention it on this list without 
>>>>>>>>> violating the NDA. :) That being said, I want to gently suggest that 
>>>>>>>>> VoiceOver users wait to upgrade for a little while, as there are 
>>>>>>>>> still some issues unresolved from the accessibility testing process.
>>>>>>>>> While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per 
>>>>>>>>> se, they are significant enough to cause some confusion and 
>>>>>>>>> annoyance. I suggest just waiting until at least the first general 
>>>>>>>>> update to the system before committing yourself. In particular, 
>>>>>>>>> iBooks accessibility is not all that might be hoped-for. It is being 
>>>>>>>>> actively worked on, and will be improved in the coming weeks.
>>>>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>>>>> <--- Mac Acc

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Christopher Gilland]

Maybe it was just my mac mini being stupid.  Who knows.  I just tried updating 
from the GM to the full release, and once it downloaded, and then I restarted 
the first time, it just kind a sat there and decided to be a looks, and do 
nothing.  Finally, I hit the power switch and manually restarted.  So far, that 
doesn’t seem to have any ill effect.

Chris.

On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:29 PM, Zachary Kline  wrote:

> Hi Chris,
> I don't remember that one.:-) but yeah, the point still stands, wait a little 
> bit.
> Best,
> Zack.
> On Oct 22, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>  wrote:
> 
>> I guess now that we're no longer on NDA, I will say I agree with Zack.  I 
>> too, found that the testing cycle was not exactly the smoothest.  As I 
>> recall, there was even  one seed, I wanna say #3 if I remember correctly, 
>> that was so broken, it didn't even boot.
>> 
>> Anyway... yeah.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> 
>> Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.
>> 
>> http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland
>> 
>> For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
>> on Twitter.
>> 
>> http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
>> - Original Message - From: "Zachary Kline" 
>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit
>> 
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> Yes, I am, And have been for several months. The testing process has not 
>>> been as smooth as in past releases, but I trust that things will eventually 
>>> settle down. I just thought I should get the note out there, before some 
>>> people upgraded and started panicking when iBooks didn't work as well as it 
>>> could. :-)
>>> All the best,
>>> Zack.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:36 PM, Michael Marshall  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> thanks zack,
>>>> are you using the new update?
>>>>> On 23/10/2013, at 7:25 AM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>> A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the 
>>>>> new iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues have 
>>>>> been addressed.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Are there any new voiceover features?
>>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, 
>>>>>>> it is acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. 
>>>>>>> :) That being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait 
>>>>>>> to upgrade for a little while, as there are still some issues 
>>>>>>> unresolved from the accessibility testing process.
>>>>>>> While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, 
>>>>>>> they are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I 
>>>>>>> suggest just waiting until at least the first general update to the 
>>>>>>> system before committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility 
>>>>>>> is not all that might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, and 
>>>>>>> will be improved in the coming weeks.
>>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>>>>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access 
>>>>>>> forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
>>>>>>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
>>>>>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Josh Gregory]

Nice feature, must admit.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:35 PM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
> 
> Oh, that’s describing images to you. :) iOS 7 added a similar feature a while 
> back. 
> Best,
> Zack.
>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Josh Gregory  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks I appreciate that. What's up with all the bright, crisp, no faces 
>> thingies?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:21 PM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland" 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yeah, optymizing your Mac... basically, it's just getting things together. 
>>> Ya know, resyncing your ICloud, and all that type stuff.  Don't worry about 
>>> it.  You're ok.
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.
>>> 
>>> http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland
>>> 
>>> For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow 
>>> me on Twitter.
>>> 
>>> http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
>>> - Original Message - From: "Josh Gregory" 
>>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:55 PM
>>> Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> After waiting about 45 minutes for it to install, and  additionally a 
>>>> little startled when it restarted and said completing installation, it's 
>>>> now done. I'll be interested to see what this has. Okay, optimizing your 
>>>> Mac?
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 4:50 PM, Dónal Fitzpatrick 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> there is absolutely nothing to be excited or enthusiastic about from the 
>>>>> voiceover perspective in this release.  I've been using this thing since 
>>>>> developer preview II and have lived in hope that things might improve. 
>>>>> Despite bugging lots not much has.  Also, many of the existing annoyances 
>>>>> haven't been addressed.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I for one have no intention of putting it on any production machine for a 
>>>>> long long time.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dónal
>>>>>> On 22 Oct 2013, at 21:25, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>>> A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the 
>>>>>> new iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues have 
>>>>>> been addressed.
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Are there any new voiceover features?
>>>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, 
>>>>>>>> it is acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. 
>>>>>>>> :) That being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait 
>>>>>>>> to upgrade for a little while, as there are still some issues 
>>>>>>>> unresolved from the accessibility testing process.
>>>>>>>> While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, 
>>>>>>>> they are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I 
>>>>>>>> suggest just waiting until at least the first general update to the 
>>>>>>>> system before committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility 
>>>>>>>> is not all that might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, 
>>>>>>>> and will be improved in the coming weeks.
>>>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>>>>>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access 
>>>>>>>> forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>>

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Josh Gregory]

Thanks a lot, greatly appreciated.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:33 PM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
> 
> This is a known issue.
> It has to do with one particular setting, “Wrap to Page,” which you can 
> toggle off by hitting cmd-shift-w.
> Best,
> Zack.
>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 5:31 PM, Josh Gregory  wrote:
>> 
>> Has anybody noticed that text edit seems to lose focus easily in documents?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:19 PM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland" 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I guess now that we're no longer on NDA, I will say I agree with Zack.  I 
>>> too, found that the testing cycle was not exactly the smoothest.  As I 
>>> recall, there was even  one seed, I wanna say #3 if I remember correctly, 
>>> that was so broken, it didn't even boot.
>>> 
>>> Anyway... yeah.
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.
>>> 
>>> http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland
>>> 
>>> For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow 
>>> me on Twitter.
>>> 
>>> http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
>>> - Original Message - From: "Zachary Kline" 
>>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:41 PM
>>> Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> Yes, I am, And have been for several months. The testing process has not 
>>>> been as smooth as in past releases, but I trust that things will 
>>>> eventually settle down. I just thought I should get the note out there, 
>>>> before some people upgraded and started panicking when iBooks didn't work 
>>>> as well as it could. :-)
>>>> All the best,
>>>> Zack.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:36 PM, Michael Marshall  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> thanks zack,
>>>>> are you using the new update?
>>>>>> On 23/10/2013, at 7:25 AM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>>> A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the 
>>>>>> new iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues have 
>>>>>> been addressed.
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Are there any new voiceover features?
>>>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, 
>>>>>>>> it is acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. 
>>>>>>>> :) That being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait 
>>>>>>>> to upgrade for a little while, as there are still some issues 
>>>>>>>> unresolved from the accessibility testing process.
>>>>>>>> While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, 
>>>>>>>> they are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I 
>>>>>>>> suggest just waiting until at least the first general update to the 
>>>>>>>> system before committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility 
>>>>>>>> is not all that might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, 
>>>>>>>> and will be improved in the coming weeks.
>>>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>>>>>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access 
>>>>>>>> forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>>>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
>>>>>>>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>>>>>>>> <http:

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Christopher Gilland]

So, do we want wrap to Window, or wrap to page?

Chris.

On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:33 PM, Zachary Kline  wrote:

> This is a known issue.
> It has to do with one particular setting, “Wrap to Page,” which you can 
> toggle off by hitting cmd-shift-w.
> Best,
> Zack.
> On Oct 22, 2013, at 5:31 PM, Josh Gregory  wrote:
> 
>> Has anybody noticed that text edit seems to lose focus easily in documents?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:19 PM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland" 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I guess now that we're no longer on NDA, I will say I agree with Zack.  I 
>>> too, found that the testing cycle was not exactly the smoothest.  As I 
>>> recall, there was even  one seed, I wanna say #3 if I remember correctly, 
>>> that was so broken, it didn't even boot.
>>> 
>>> Anyway... yeah.
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.
>>> 
>>> http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland
>>> 
>>> For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow 
>>> me on Twitter.
>>> 
>>> http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
>>> - Original Message - From: "Zachary Kline" 
>>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:41 PM
>>> Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> Yes, I am, And have been for several months. The testing process has not 
>>>> been as smooth as in past releases, but I trust that things will 
>>>> eventually settle down. I just thought I should get the note out there, 
>>>> before some people upgraded and started panicking when iBooks didn't work 
>>>> as well as it could. :-)
>>>> All the best,
>>>> Zack.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:36 PM, Michael Marshall  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> thanks zack,
>>>>> are you using the new update?
>>>>>> On 23/10/2013, at 7:25 AM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>>> A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the 
>>>>>> new iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues have 
>>>>>> been addressed.
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Are there any new voiceover features?
>>>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, 
>>>>>>>> it is acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. 
>>>>>>>> :) That being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait 
>>>>>>>> to upgrade for a little while, as there are still some issues 
>>>>>>>> unresolved from the accessibility testing process.
>>>>>>>> While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, 
>>>>>>>> they are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I 
>>>>>>>> suggest just waiting until at least the first general update to the 
>>>>>>>> system before committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility 
>>>>>>>> is not all that might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, 
>>>>>>>> and will be improved in the coming weeks.
>>>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>>>>>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access 
>>>>>>>> forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>>>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
>>>>>>>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-a

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Zachary Kline]

Oh, that’s describing images to you. :) iOS 7 added a similar feature a while 
back. 
Best,
Zack.
On Oct 22, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Josh Gregory  wrote:

> Thanks I appreciate that. What's up with all the bright, crisp, no faces 
> thingies?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:21 PM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland" 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Yeah, optymizing your Mac... basically, it's just getting things together. 
>> Ya know, resyncing your ICloud, and all that type stuff.  Don't worry about 
>> it.  You're ok.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> 
>> Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.
>> 
>> http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland
>> 
>> For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
>> on Twitter.
>> 
>> http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
>> ----- Original Message - From: "Josh Gregory" 
>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:55 PM
>> Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit
>> 
>> 
>>> After waiting about 45 minutes for it to install, and  additionally a 
>>> little startled when it restarted and said completing installation, it's 
>>> now done. I'll be interested to see what this has. Okay, optimizing your 
>>> Mac?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 4:50 PM, Dónal Fitzpatrick  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> there is absolutely nothing to be excited or enthusiastic about from the 
>>>> voiceover perspective in this release.  I've been using this thing since 
>>>> developer preview II and have lived in hope that things might improve. 
>>>> Despite bugging lots not much has.  Also, many of the existing annoyances 
>>>> haven't been addressed.
>>>> 
>>>> I for one have no intention of putting it on any production machine for a 
>>>> long long time.
>>>> 
>>>> Dónal
>>>>> On 22 Oct 2013, at 21:25, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>> A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the 
>>>>> new iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues have 
>>>>> been addressed.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Are there any new voiceover features?
>>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, 
>>>>>>> it is acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. 
>>>>>>> :) That being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait 
>>>>>>> to upgrade for a little while, as there are still some issues 
>>>>>>> unresolved from the accessibility testing process.
>>>>>>> While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, 
>>>>>>> they are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I 
>>>>>>> suggest just waiting until at least the first general update to the 
>>>>>>> system before committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility 
>>>>>>> is not all that might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, and 
>>>>>>> will be improved in the coming weeks.
>>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>>>>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access 
>>>>>>> forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
>>>>>>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
>>>>>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As the Mac A

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Zachary Kline]

This is a known issue.
It has to do with one particular setting, “Wrap to Page,” which you can toggle 
off by hitting cmd-shift-w.
Best,
Zack.
On Oct 22, 2013, at 5:31 PM, Josh Gregory  wrote:

> Has anybody noticed that text edit seems to lose focus easily in documents?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:19 PM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland" 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I guess now that we're no longer on NDA, I will say I agree with Zack.  I 
>> too, found that the testing cycle was not exactly the smoothest.  As I 
>> recall, there was even  one seed, I wanna say #3 if I remember correctly, 
>> that was so broken, it didn't even boot.
>> 
>> Anyway... yeah.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> 
>> Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.
>> 
>> http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland
>> 
>> For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
>> on Twitter.
>> 
>> http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
>> - Original Message - From: "Zachary Kline" 
>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit
>> 
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> Yes, I am, And have been for several months. The testing process has not 
>>> been as smooth as in past releases, but I trust that things will eventually 
>>> settle down. I just thought I should get the note out there, before some 
>>> people upgraded and started panicking when iBooks didn't work as well as it 
>>> could. :-)
>>> All the best,
>>> Zack.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:36 PM, Michael Marshall  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> thanks zack,
>>>> are you using the new update?
>>>>> On 23/10/2013, at 7:25 AM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>> A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the 
>>>>> new iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues have 
>>>>> been addressed.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Are there any new voiceover features?
>>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, 
>>>>>>> it is acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. 
>>>>>>> :) That being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait 
>>>>>>> to upgrade for a little while, as there are still some issues 
>>>>>>> unresolved from the accessibility testing process.
>>>>>>> While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, 
>>>>>>> they are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I 
>>>>>>> suggest just waiting until at least the first general update to the 
>>>>>>> system before committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility 
>>>>>>> is not all that might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, and 
>>>>>>> will be improved in the coming weeks.
>>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>>>>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access 
>>>>>>> forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
>>>>>>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
>>>>>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
>>>>>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
>>>>>>> and worm-fre

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Josh Gregory]

Thanks I appreciate that. What's up with all the bright, crisp, no faces 
thingies?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:21 PM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland" 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yeah, optymizing your Mac... basically, it's just getting things together. Ya 
> know, resyncing your ICloud, and all that type stuff.  Don't worry about it.  
> You're ok.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> 
> Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.
> 
> http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland
> 
> For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
> on Twitter.
> 
> http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
> - Original Message - From: "Josh Gregory" 
> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:55 PM
> Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit
> 
> 
>> After waiting about 45 minutes for it to install, and  additionally a little 
>> startled when it restarted and said completing installation, it's now done. 
>> I'll be interested to see what this has. Okay, optimizing your Mac?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 4:50 PM, Dónal Fitzpatrick  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> there is absolutely nothing to be excited or enthusiastic about from the 
>>> voiceover perspective in this release.  I've been using this thing since 
>>> developer preview II and have lived in hope that things might improve. 
>>> Despite bugging lots not much has.  Also, many of the existing annoyances 
>>> haven't been addressed.
>>> 
>>> I for one have no intention of putting it on any production machine for a 
>>> long long time.
>>> 
>>> Dónal
>>>> On 22 Oct 2013, at 21:25, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>> A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the new 
>>>> iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues have been 
>>>> addressed.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Zack.
>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Are there any new voiceover features?
>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, 
>>>>>> it is acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. 
>>>>>> :) That being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait 
>>>>>> to upgrade for a little while, as there are still some issues unresolved 
>>>>>> from the accessibility testing process.
>>>>>> While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, 
>>>>>> they are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I 
>>>>>> suggest just waiting until at least the first general update to the 
>>>>>> system before committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility 
>>>>>> is not all that might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, and 
>>>>>> will be improved in the coming weeks.
>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>>>> 
>>>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>>>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>>>> 
>>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access 
>>>>>> forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
>>>>>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
>>>>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
>>>>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
>>>>>> and worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>>>>>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should 
>>>>>> something unpredictable happen.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Josh Gregory]

Has anybody noticed that text edit seems to lose focus easily in documents?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 22, 2013, at 8:19 PM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland" 
>  wrote:
> 
> I guess now that we're no longer on NDA, I will say I agree with Zack.  I 
> too, found that the testing cycle was not exactly the smoothest.  As I 
> recall, there was even  one seed, I wanna say #3 if I remember correctly, 
> that was so broken, it didn't even boot.
> 
> Anyway... yeah.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> 
> Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.
> 
> http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland
> 
> For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
> on Twitter.
> 
> http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
> - Original Message - From: "Zachary Kline" 
> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:41 PM
> Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit
> 
> 
>> Hi,
>> Yes, I am, And have been for several months. The testing process has not 
>> been as smooth as in past releases, but I trust that things will eventually 
>> settle down. I just thought I should get the note out there, before some 
>> people upgraded and started panicking when iBooks didn't work as well as it 
>> could. :-)
>> All the best,
>> Zack.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:36 PM, Michael Marshall  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> thanks zack,
>>> are you using the new update?
>>>> On 23/10/2013, at 7:25 AM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>> A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the new 
>>>> iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues have been 
>>>> addressed.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Zack.
>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Are there any new voiceover features?
>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, 
>>>>>> it is acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. 
>>>>>> :) That being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait 
>>>>>> to upgrade for a little while, as there are still some issues unresolved 
>>>>>> from the accessibility testing process.
>>>>>> While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, 
>>>>>> they are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I 
>>>>>> suggest just waiting until at least the first general update to the 
>>>>>> system before committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility 
>>>>>> is not all that might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, and 
>>>>>> will be improved in the coming weeks.
>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>>>> 
>>>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>>>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>>>> 
>>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access 
>>>>>> forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
>>>>>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
>>>>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
>>>>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
>>>>>> and worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>>>>>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should 
>>>>>> something unpredictable happen.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>>>>>> visiting the list website at:
>>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>
>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>&

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Zachary Kline]

Hi Chris,
I don't remember that one.:-) but yeah, the point still stands, wait a little 
bit.
Best,
Zack.
On Oct 22, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:

> I guess now that we're no longer on NDA, I will say I agree with Zack.  I 
> too, found that the testing cycle was not exactly the smoothest.  As I 
> recall, there was even  one seed, I wanna say #3 if I remember correctly, 
> that was so broken, it didn't even boot.
> 
> Anyway... yeah.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> 
> Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.
> 
> http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland
> 
> For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
> on Twitter.
> 
> http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
> - Original Message - From: "Zachary Kline" 
> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:41 PM
> Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit
> 
> 
>> Hi,
>> Yes, I am, And have been for several months. The testing process has not 
>> been as smooth as in past releases, but I trust that things will eventually 
>> settle down. I just thought I should get the note out there, before some 
>> people upgraded and started panicking when iBooks didn't work as well as it 
>> could. :-)
>> All the best,
>> Zack.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:36 PM, Michael Marshall  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> thanks zack,
>>> are you using the new update?
>>>> On 23/10/2013, at 7:25 AM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>> A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the new 
>>>> iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues have been 
>>>> addressed.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Zack.
>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Are there any new voiceover features?
>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, 
>>>>>> it is acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. 
>>>>>> :) That being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait 
>>>>>> to upgrade for a little while, as there are still some issues unresolved 
>>>>>> from the accessibility testing process.
>>>>>> While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, 
>>>>>> they are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I 
>>>>>> suggest just waiting until at least the first general update to the 
>>>>>> system before committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility 
>>>>>> is not all that might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, and 
>>>>>> will be improved in the coming weeks.
>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>> Zack.
>>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>>>> 
>>>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>>>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>>>> 
>>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access 
>>>>>> forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
>>>>>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
>>>>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
>>>>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
>>>>>> and worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>>>>>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should 
>>>>>> something unpredictable happen.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>>>>>> visiting the list website at:
>>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>
>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>>>> 
&

Mavericks and Mail, was: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

One thing about Mail I'm noticing that I, can, not, stand! that has been 
this way since the Gold Master is Voiceover isn't seeming to report any 
longer that messages are read, or unread.  Maybe I did something to turn it 
off, but I'm not aware of anything.


Chris.


Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.

http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland

For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
on Twitter.


http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
- Original Message - 
From: "Bryan Jones" 

To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit


Call me easy to please, but I am thrilled that they’ve reinstated the 
ability to use the Option+Up/Down arrows to move to top and bottom message 
rows in Mavericks’ Mail.app


;-)

-Bryan

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to 
mac-access@mac-access.net


You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
either the list's own dedicated web archive:

<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
or at the public Mail Archive:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>

As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
unpredictable happen.


Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
visiting the list website at:

<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
either the list's own dedicated web archive:
<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
or at the public Mail Archive:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>

As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  
We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable 
happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting 
the list website at:
<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Yeah, optymizing your Mac... basically, it's just getting things together. 
Ya know, resyncing your ICloud, and all that type stuff.  Don't worry about 
it.  You're ok.


Chris.


Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.

http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland

For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
on Twitter.


http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
- Original Message - 
From: "Josh Gregory" 

To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit


After waiting about 45 minutes for it to install, and  additionally a 
little startled when it restarted and said completing installation, it's 
now done. I'll be interested to see what this has. Okay, optimizing your 
Mac?


Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 22, 2013, at 4:50 PM, Dónal Fitzpatrick 
 wrote:


there is absolutely nothing to be excited or enthusiastic about from the 
voiceover perspective in this release.  I've been using this thing since 
developer preview II and have lived in hope that things might improve. 
Despite bugging lots not much has.  Also, many of the existing annoyances 
haven't been addressed.


I for one have no intention of putting it on any production machine for a 
long long time.


Dónal

On 22 Oct 2013, at 21:25, Zachary Kline  wrote:

Hi Mike,
A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the 
new iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues have 
been addressed.

Best,
Zack.

On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:

Are there any new voiceover features?
Original message:

Hi All,


Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, 
it is acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. 
:) That being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait 
to upgrade for a little while, as there are still some issues 
unresolved from the accessibility testing process.
While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, 
they are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I 
suggest just waiting until at least the first general update to the 
system before committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility 
is not all that might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, 
and will be improved in the coming weeks.

Warmest regards,
Zack.
<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->


To reply to this post, please address your message to 
mac-access@mac-access.net


You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access 
forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive:

<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
or at the public Mail Archive:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>


As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to 
ensure that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, 
Trojan, virus and worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace 
your own security strategy.  We assume neither liability nor 
responsibility should something unpredictable happen.


Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
visiting the list website at:

<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to 
mac-access@mac-access.net


You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access 
forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive:

<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
or at the public Mail Archive:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>

As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
and worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own 
security strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility 
should something unpredictable happen.


Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
visiting the list website at:

<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>



<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to 
mac-access@mac-access.net


You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access 
forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive:

<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
or at the public Mail Archive:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
Subscribe to the list&#x

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I guess now that we're no longer on NDA, I will say I agree with Zack.  I 
too, found that the testing cycle was not exactly the smoothest.  As I 
recall, there was even  one seed, I wanna say #3 if I remember correctly, 
that was so broken, it didn't even boot.


Anyway... yeah.

Chris.


Visit my Audioboo page for freely available music which I have recorded.

http://www.audioboo.fm/chrisgilland

For updates to my Audioboo page, you also are more than welcome to follow me 
on Twitter.


http://www.twitter.com/clgillandmusic
- Original Message - 
From: "Zachary Kline" 

To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit



Hi,
Yes, I am, And have been for several months. The testing process has not 
been as smooth as in past releases, but I trust that things will 
eventually settle down. I just thought I should get the note out there, 
before some people upgraded and started panicking when iBooks didn't work 
as well as it could. :-)

All the best,
Zack.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:36 PM, Michael Marshall  
wrote:


thanks zack,
are you using the new update?

On 23/10/2013, at 7:25 AM, Zachary Kline  wrote:

Hi Mike,
A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the 
new iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues have 
been addressed.

Best,
Zack.

On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:

Are there any new voiceover features?
Original message:

Hi All,


Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, 
it is acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. 
:) That being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait 
to upgrade for a little while, as there are still some issues 
unresolved from the accessibility testing process.
While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, 
they are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I 
suggest just waiting until at least the first general update to the 
system before committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility 
is not all that might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, 
and will be improved in the coming weeks.

Warmest regards,
Zack.
<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->


To reply to this post, please address your message to 
mac-access@mac-access.net


You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access 
forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive:

<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
or at the public Mail Archive:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>


As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to 
ensure that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, 
Trojan, virus and worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace 
your own security strategy.  We assume neither liability nor 
responsibility should something unpredictable happen.


Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
visiting the list website at:

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Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Esther]

Bryan,

That's great news.  Does this work the same way it used to? By that I mean that 
you can use this to navigate threads (conversations) as well as your entire 
mailbox to go to the first or last message, by holding down the Option+Up or 
Down arrow key for a short time.

And is it also worth mentioning that there are new Take Control series eBooks 
for Upgrading to Mavericks, and for using iBooks, although I haven't seen the 
contents yet?  These should be eligible for purchase using the discount that is 
available to mac-access list subscribers.

To remind list members, there is information about this at:
http://www.mac-access.net/Take-Control.html

Note that the titles I mentioned are very recently announced additions that are 
not yet listed in the local accessible version of the Take Control catalog.

HTH. Cheers,

Esther

On Oct 22, 2013, at 12:11 PM, Bryan Jones wrote:

> Call me easy to please, but I am thrilled that they’ve reinstated the ability 
> to use the Option+Up/Down arrows to move to top and bottom message rows in 
> Mavericks’ Mail.app
> 
> ;-)
> 
> -Bryan
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Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Bryan Jones]

Call me easy to please, but I am thrilled that they’ve reinstated the ability 
to use the Option+Up/Down arrows to move to top and bottom message rows in 
Mavericks’ Mail.app

;-)
 
-Bryan

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Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Josh Gregory]

After waiting about 45 minutes for it to install, and  additionally a little 
startled when it restarted and said completing installation, it's now done. 
I'll be interested to see what this has. Okay, optimizing your Mac?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 22, 2013, at 4:50 PM, Dónal Fitzpatrick  
> wrote:
> 
> there is absolutely nothing to be excited or enthusiastic about from the 
> voiceover perspective in this release.  I've been using this thing since 
> developer preview II and have lived in hope that things might improve.  
> Despite bugging lots not much has.  Also, many of the existing annoyances 
> haven't been addressed.
> 
> I for one have no intention of putting it on any production machine for a 
> long long time.
> 
> Dónal
>> On 22 Oct 2013, at 21:25, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mike,
>> A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the new 
>> iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues have been 
>> addressed.
>> Best,
>> Zack.
>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Are there any new voiceover features?
>>> Original message:
 Hi All,
>>> 
 Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, it 
 is acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. :) 
 That being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait to 
 upgrade for a little while, as there are still some issues unresolved from 
 the accessibility testing process.
 While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, 
 they are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I 
 suggest just waiting until at least the first general update to the system 
 before committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility is not all 
 that might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, and will be 
 improved in the coming weeks.
 Warmest regards,
 Zack.
 <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>> 
 To reply to this post, please address your message to 
 mac-access@mac-access.net
>>> 
 You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum 
 at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
 
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 .
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>>> 
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 that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
 worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
 strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
 unpredictable happen.
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>>> 
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>>> unpredictable happen.
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>>> 
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
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>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
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>> 
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>> unp

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Michael Marshall]

i see,
thanks for letting me know. i'm so glad it's free, as it should be because the 
IOS update was.
Michael
On 23/10/2013, at 7:41 AM, Zachary Kline  wrote:

> Hi,
> Yes, I am, And have been for several months. The testing process has not been 
> as smooth as in past releases, but I trust that things will eventually settle 
> down. I just thought I should get the note out there, before some people 
> upgraded and started panicking when iBooks didn't work as well as it could. 
> :-)
> All the best,
> Zack.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:36 PM, Michael Marshall  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> thanks zack,
>> are you using the new update? 
>>> On 23/10/2013, at 7:25 AM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Mike,
>>> A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the new 
>>> iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues have been 
>>> addressed.
>>> Best,
>>> Zack.
 On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
 
 Are there any new voiceover features?
 Original message:
> Hi All,
 
> Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, it 
> is acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. :) 
> That being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait to 
> upgrade for a little while, as there are still some issues unresolved 
> from the accessibility testing process.
> While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, 
> they are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I 
> suggest just waiting until at least the first general update to the 
> system before committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility is 
> not all that might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, and will 
> be improved in the coming weeks.
> Warmest regards,
> Zack.
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
 
> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum 
> at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> 
> or at the public Mail Archive:
> .
> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
> 
 
> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
> and worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should 
> something unpredictable happen.
 
> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
> visiting the list website at:
> 
 <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
 
 To reply to this post, please address your message to 
 mac-access@mac-access.net
 
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 at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
 
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 .
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 that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
 worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
 strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
 unpredictable happen.
 
 Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
 visiting the list website at:
 
>>> 
>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>> 
>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>> 
>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum 
>>> at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>> 
>>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>>> .
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>>> unpredi

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Dónal Fitzpatrick]

there is absolutely nothing to be excited or enthusiastic about from the 
voiceover perspective in this release.  I've been using this thing since 
developer preview II and have lived in hope that things might improve.  Despite 
bugging lots not much has.  Also, many of the existing annoyances haven't been 
addressed.

I for one have no intention of putting it on any production machine for a long 
long time.

Dónal
On 22 Oct 2013, at 21:25, Zachary Kline  wrote:

> Hi Mike,
> A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the new 
> iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues have been 
> addressed.
> Best,
> Zack.
> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
>> Are there any new voiceover features?
>> Original message:
>>> Hi All,
>> 
>>> Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, it 
>>> is acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. :) That 
>>> being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait to upgrade 
>>> for a little while, as there are still some issues unresolved from the 
>>> accessibility testing process.
>>> While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, they 
>>> are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I suggest 
>>> just waiting until at least the first general update to the system before 
>>> committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility is not all that 
>>> might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, and will be improved in 
>>> the coming weeks.
>>> Warmest regards,
>>> Zack.
>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum 
>>> at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>> 
>>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>>> .
>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>>> 
>> 
>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>>> unpredictable happen.
>> 
>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>>> visiting the list website at:
>>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
>> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>> 
>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>> .
>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>> 
>> 
>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>> unpredictable happen.
>> 
>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>> visiting the list website at:
>> 
>> 
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> 
> or at the public Mail Archive:
> .
> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
> 
> 
> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
> unpredictable happen.
> 
> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
> visiting the list website at:
> 

Dr. Dónal Fitzpatrick,
School of Computing, 
Dublin City University,
Glasnevin, 
Dublin 9, Ireland
Tel. +353-(0)1-700-8929
fax: +353-(0)1-700-5442
email: dfitzpat (at) computing.dcu.ie

Email Disclaimer
"This e-mail and any files 

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Zachary Kline]

Hi,
Yes, I am, And have been for several months. The testing process has not been 
as smooth as in past releases, but I trust that things will eventually settle 
down. I just thought I should get the note out there, before some people 
upgraded and started panicking when iBooks didn't work as well as it could. :-)
All the best,
Zack.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:36 PM, Michael Marshall  
> wrote:
> 
> thanks zack,
> are you using the new update? 
>> On 23/10/2013, at 7:25 AM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mike,
>> A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the new 
>> iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues have been 
>> addressed.
>> Best,
>> Zack.
>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Are there any new voiceover features?
>>> Original message:
 Hi All,
>>> 
 Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, it 
 is acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. :) 
 That being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait to 
 upgrade for a little while, as there are still some issues unresolved from 
 the accessibility testing process.
 While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, 
 they are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I 
 suggest just waiting until at least the first general update to the system 
 before committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility is not all 
 that might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, and will be 
 improved in the coming weeks.
 Warmest regards,
 Zack.
 <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>> 
 To reply to this post, please address your message to 
 mac-access@mac-access.net
>>> 
 You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum 
 at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
 
 or at the public Mail Archive:
 .
 Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
 
>>> 
 As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
 that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
 worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
 strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
 unpredictable happen.
>>> 
 Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
 visiting the list website at:
 
>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>> 
>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>> 
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>>> at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>>> unpredictable happen.
>>> 
>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>>> visiting the list website at:
>>> 
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
>> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>> 
>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>> .
>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
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>> 
>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>> unpredictable happen.
>> 
>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>> visiting the list website at:
>> 
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please ad

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Michael Marshall]

thanks zack,
are you using the new update? 
On 23/10/2013, at 7:25 AM, Zachary Kline  wrote:

> Hi Mike,
> A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the new 
> iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues have been 
> addressed.
> Best,
> Zack.
> On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
>> Are there any new voiceover features?
>> Original message:
>>> Hi All,
>> 
>>> Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, it 
>>> is acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. :) That 
>>> being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait to upgrade 
>>> for a little while, as there are still some issues unresolved from the 
>>> accessibility testing process.
>>> While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, they 
>>> are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I suggest 
>>> just waiting until at least the first general update to the system before 
>>> committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility is not all that 
>>> might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, and will be improved in 
>>> the coming weeks.
>>> Warmest regards,
>>> Zack.
>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum 
>>> at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>> 
>>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>>> .
>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>>> 
>> 
>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>>> unpredictable happen.
>> 
>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>>> visiting the list website at:
>>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
>> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>> 
>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>> .
>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>> 
>> 
>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>> unpredictable happen.
>> 
>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>> visiting the list website at:
>> 
>> 
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> 
> or at the public Mail Archive:
> .
> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
> 
> 
> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
> unpredictable happen.
> 
> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
> visiting the list website at:
> 
> 

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

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the Mac-Access E-

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Michael Marshall]

hey,
i do know that VO now has language support witch means that some voices will 
read a german word in an english paragraph.
On 23/10/2013, at 7:20 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:

> Are there any new voiceover features?
> Original message:
>> Hi All,
> 
>> Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, it is 
>> acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. :) That 
>> being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait to upgrade 
>> for a little while, as there are still some issues unresolved from the 
>> accessibility testing process.
>> While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, they 
>> are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I suggest just 
>> waiting until at least the first general update to the system before 
>> committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility is not all that 
>> might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, and will be improved in 
>> the coming weeks.
>> Warmest regards,
>> Zack.
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
>> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>> 
>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>> .
>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>> 
> 
>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>> unpredictable happen.
> 
>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>> visiting the list website at:
>> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> 
> or at the public Mail Archive:
> .
> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
> 
> 
> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
> unpredictable happen.
> 
> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
> visiting the list website at:
> 
> 

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
either the list's own dedicated web archive:

or at the public Mail Archive:
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Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:


As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  
We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable 
happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting 
the list website at:

Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Zachary Kline]

Hi Mike,
A few, but nothing huge. I’m more curious to see what happens with the new 
iWork apps, in which I suspect many of our accessibility issues have been 
addressed.
Best,
Zack.
On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:

> Are there any new voiceover features?
> Original message:
>> Hi All,
> 
>> Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, it is 
>> acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. :) That 
>> being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait to upgrade 
>> for a little while, as there are still some issues unresolved from the 
>> accessibility testing process.
>> While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, they 
>> are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I suggest just 
>> waiting until at least the first general update to the system before 
>> committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility is not all that 
>> might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, and will be improved in 
>> the coming weeks.
>> Warmest regards,
>> Zack.
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
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>> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>> 
>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>> .
>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
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>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>> unpredictable happen.
> 
>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>> visiting the list website at:
>> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> 
> or at the public Mail Archive:
> .
> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
> 
> 
> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
> unpredictable happen.
> 
> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
> visiting the list website at:
> 
> 

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
either the list's own dedicated web archive:

or at the public Mail Archive:
.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:


As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  
We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable 
happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting 
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Re: OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Mike Arrigo]

Are there any new voiceover features?
Original message:

Hi All,


Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, 
it is acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. 
:) That being said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait 
to upgrade for a little while, as there are still some issues 
unresolved from the accessibility testing process.
While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, 
they are significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I 
suggest just waiting until at least the first general update to the 
system before committing yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility 
is not all that might be hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, and 
will be improved in the coming weeks.

Warmest regards,
Zack.
<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->



To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net


You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access 
forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive:


or at the public Mail Archive:
.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:



As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure 
that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
and worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own 
security strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility 
should something unpredictable happen.


Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
visiting the list website at:



<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
either the list's own dedicated web archive:

or at the public Mail Archive:
.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:


As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  
We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable 
happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting 
the list website at:

OS X Mavricks, Wait a bit

[Zachary Kline]

Hi All,

Now that OS X 10.9, AKA Mavericks, has finally entered public release, it is 
acceptable to mention it on this list without violating the NDA. :) That being 
said, I want to gently suggest that VoiceOver users wait to upgrade for a 
little while, as there are still some issues unresolved from the accessibility 
testing process.
While I personally do not consider any of these game breaking, per se, they are 
significant enough to cause some confusion and annoyance. I suggest just 
waiting until at least the first general update to the system before committing 
yourself. In particular, iBooks accessibility is not all that might be 
hoped-for. It is being actively worked on, and will be improved in the coming 
weeks.
Warmest regards,
Zack.
<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
either the list's own dedicated web archive:

or at the public Mail Archive:
.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:


As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  
We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable 
happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting 
the list website at: