Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.
Martin and all, My thoughts exactly. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Dark Matter" To: "Meteorites USA" Cc: Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms. Hello all, If Dr. Moore wants to share anything with this list, please let's all consider it an honor to be in his virtual presence regardless of the topic. thank you, Martin On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Meteorites USA wrote: I'm sure all of us are very sorry to here of such a tragedy, and our hearts go out to those families touched by such a devastating event, but I'm reasonably sure people do not wish to hear more of the "gun issue" on the meteorite list. Regards, Eric On 2/5/2010 5:36 PM, Carleton Moore wrote: A coincidence that when the first pistol picture was posted a gunman named Redondo shot a Gilbert Arizona policeman in the head and killed him as well as shooting at other police chasing and catching him and his partner. Remember Arizona is a gun happy state. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.
Hi Martin and all, I agree Martin. People can use there delete keys. One side wants to complain but then doesn't want to listen after opening up a can of worms. Best! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Dark Matter" Hello all, If Dr. Moore wants to share anything with this list, please let's all consider it an honor to be in his virtual presence regardless of the topic. thank you, Martin On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Meteorites USA wrote: I'm sure all of us are very sorry to here of such a tragedy, and our hearts go out to those families touched by such a devastating event, but I'm reasonably sure people do not wish to hear more of the "gun issue" on the meteorite list. Regards, Eric On 2/5/2010 5:36 PM, Carleton Moore wrote: A coincidence that when the first pistol picture was posted a gunman named Redondo shot a Gilbert Arizona policeman in the head and killed him as well as shooting at other police chasing and catching him and his partner. Remember Arizona is a gun happy state. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.
Mark, I'd just rather not comment on this but since you have attempted to put Martin and me in the bad guy spot, and words into my mouth I'll comment. I am commenting for myself and not Martin. First you have made 4 or 5 posts on this subject, mainly trying to end the debate. I have only made two (one by mistake) comments until this post, supporting a post by another member. While I respect some of what you are saying about letting the topic die, and I believe this had no place on this list (there are plenty of other forums for this) there is nothing wrong with addressing what another member commented needlessly and out of place on. If this member had simply kept it to himself, then the issue would not still be blazing away. You seem to have attempted to put yourself into some sort of authoritative figure here and put words into my mouth and I don't appreciate that. I don't appreciate the condescending way you went about it. You again have posted on the subject rather than let it die. So you are equally guilty of keeping this thread alive. Again if you don't like reading something then delete it. You have also put yourself in the roll of list moderator which you are not. While I appreciate that you don't care for the thread I'd appreciate it if you don't drag me into to all this which you did. Now maybe we can get back to meteorites and all this can die. --AL Mitterling - Original Message ----- From: "Mark Grossman" To: "al mitt" ; Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms. Right now its not a question of who wants to listen to what, or who opened what, but how just how long both sides want to listen to this continuing, apparently never ending debate. I assume Martin and Al believe this topic has not been discussed sufficiently based on their posts. Martin and Al - can you please confirm to the list that my assumption is correct, and after all of the debate, you still actively welcome postings on this topic - from emininent scientists as well as unknown collectors - and that you don't want to see this "can of worms" closed. If I am mistaken, and you would like to see "the can of worms" closed, then please let the list know. And if you think using the delete key is always the answer for whoever posts what, in my opinion you are missing the forest for the trees. At some point you simply drive away people, and you end up the same group, not wanting or welcoming new people, the status quo. And at the end of the day - perhaps that's just what most of the people who post to the list want - exercise using the delete key over expanding and promoting the image of the meteorite list around the world. Your choice. Thanks. Mark Grossman - Original Message - From: "al mitt" To: Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms. Hi Martin and all, I agree Martin. People can use there delete keys. One side wants to complain but then doesn't want to listen after opening up a can of worms. Best! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Dark Matter" Hello all, If Dr. Moore wants to share anything with this list, please let's all consider it an honor to be in his virtual presence regardless of the topic. thank you, Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] "Who is Dr. LaPaz"
Hi Shawn and all, I am sure that some people will disagree with my assessment of LaPaz, but he organized the collection at the UNM in Albuquerque, New Mexico and seem to want to discredit Dr. Nininger every chance he got. While he did contribute some to the understanding of meteorites he was no giant in the field and didn't contribute as much as Nininger was by any means. A lot of his fame is the Norton County Meteorite that he outbid Nininger on. Nininger was standing on top of the main mass of the Norton County Meteorite when LaPaz and another museum head came onto the site. My understanding that Nininger used some of LaPaz's information to triangulate the fall but it takes more than one set of observations for this. He help organize the Meteortic's Society with Nininger but later tried to get Dr. Nininger thrown out of the society. I believe that Nininger resigned. He did spend a great deal of time trying to make Nininger look bad. The two were obvious rivials but not in a healthy sense. Probably because Harvey Nininger was making his living finding and selling meteorites in order to fund his hunts and research. BTW Harvey made attempts to get the scientists and museums of that time to fund his program in order to add to their collections but no one thought it would work except Farrington. Farrington was older and had health problems but wished he could help in Nininger's pursuit. LaPaz was also a hypocrite who frowned on anyone collecting meteorites but after his death a sizeable collection was found in his basement, he was an obvious closet collector. While he didn't help Nininger out, I have always felt that he might have been one of Nininger's inspirations to keep going and not letting anyone get in his way. Same with no one wanting to give Nininger a grant or position at any of the main museums or scientific institutions of that time. It might have drove Nininger to work harder in order to get it done. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 12:26 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] "Who is Dr. LaPaz" Hello Listers, Its been a crazy day in NYC today with the snow and slush but all has melted and I received a package in the mail today of a Norton County meteorite, weighing at 2.33g from Dr LaPaz collection. Within the package, I also received copies of news paper clippings From the Norton Daily Telegram, dated May 1, 1948 from the meteorite fall, and Dr LaPaz comes up in every article. In one of the clippings there is a photograph of him standing by the meteorite being lifted out of the ground. I haven't read anything about Dr LaPaz till a week ago and was wondering what significance had he had in the meteorite community? I also Wiki him and from what I saw on Wiki, Dr LaPaz was smart guy and got his PhD at a young age. Lastly, along with the meteorite specimens I also received a trinitite fragment weighing at 1.79g that he had collected from the Trinity project and was wondering if people on the list knew much about this stuff. Shawn Alan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] "Who is Dr. LaPaz"
Hi Shawn and all, I am sure that some people will disagree with my assessment of LaPaz, but he organized the collection at the UNM in Albuquerque, New Mexico and seem to want to discredit Dr. Nininger every chance he got. While he did contribute some to the understanding of meteorites he was no giant in the field and didn't contribute as much as Nininger was by any means. A lot of his fame is the Norton County Meteorite that he outbid Nininger on. Nininger was standing on top of the main mass of the Norton County Meteorite when LaPaz and another museum head came onto the site. My understanding that Nininger used some of LaPaz's information to triangulate the fall but it takes more than one set of observations for this. He help organize the Meteortic's Society with Nininger but later tried to get Dr. Nininger thrown out of the society. I believe that Nininger resigned. He did spend a great deal of time trying to make Nininger look bad. The two were obvious rivials but not in a healthy sense. Probably because Harvey Nininger was making his living finding and selling meteorites in order to fund his hunts and research. BTW Harvey made attempts to get the scientists and museums of that time to fund his program in order to add to their collections but no one thought it would work except Farrington. Farrington was older and had health problems but wished he could help in Nininger's pursuit. LaPaz was also a hypocrite who frowned on anyone collecting meteorites but after his death a sizeable collection was found in his basement, he was an obvious closet collector. While he didn't help Nininger out, I have always felt that he might have been one of Nininger's inspirations to keep going and not letting anyone get in his way. Same with no one wanting to give Nininger a grant or position at any of the main museums or scientific institutions of that time. It might have drove Nininger to work harder in order to get it done. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 12:26 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] "Who is Dr. LaPaz" Hello Listers, Its been a crazy day in NYC today with the snow and slush but all has melted and I received a package in the mail today of a Norton County meteorite, weighing at 2.33g from Dr LaPaz collection. Within the package, I also received copies of news paper clippings From the Norton Daily Telegram, dated May 1, 1948 from the meteorite fall, and Dr LaPaz comes up in every article. In one of the clippings there is a photograph of him standing by the meteorite being lifted out of the ground. I haven't read anything about Dr LaPaz till a week ago and was wondering what significance had he had in the meteorite community? I also Wiki him and from what I saw on Wiki, Dr LaPaz was smart guy and got his PhD at a young age. Lastly, along with the meteorite specimens I also received a trinitite fragment weighing at 1.79g that he had collected from the Trinity project and was wondering if people on the list knew much about this stuff. Shawn Alan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Meteorite Value if used as Tools
Greetings, When Nininger went down to Mexico to buy Toluca Meteorites and make exchanges at the museum to start his program, he ran into Toluca Meteorites that were fabricated into tools by the locals. He purchased some of these and these are held by the ASU Collection. I took some photos of them while visiting. See article in current issue of Meteorite Magazine. A detailed account can be read here about his trip. Best! http://www.meteorite.com/nininger/nininger-moments-3.htm http://www.meteorite.com/nininger/nininger-moments-4.htm http://www.meteorite.com/nininger/nininger-moments-5.htm --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Greg Stanley" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 11:46 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible Meteorite Value if used as Tools List: I was wondering if a meteorite would be more desirable if it was used as a tool; or if this has even been documented? I know there has knives made from irons, but I'm talking more like an irons being used for some purpose: perhaps a hammer for pounding. I cannot think of any other examples, but there may be more. Thanks, Greg S. _ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Way To Go Count!!!!!!!!!!
Hi Count, I don't hate you at all and may your next find be twice as big and a thousand times more rare!! Congratulations! --AL Mitterling __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
Hi Greg and all, Not a silly question if you like fish! Seriously, the minors who had a legal claim where the Old Woman was found had their meteorite taken from them. I don't know off hand if there are any other records out there of anyone else having this happen. Sue the dinosaur was taken from the finders after they went to the trouble of digging her up and had went through the proper channels. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Greg Stanley" To: ; ; Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 3:19 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question Now you're just being silly. I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands: How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the Smithsonian? Greg S. From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600 CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened toethics?? No, But you will have to send half of the fish, if you catch any, to the Smithsonian... Sterling Webb -- - Original Message - From: To: "Martin Altmann" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened toethics?? Hi Martin and all, Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this country. --AL Mitterling Quoting Martin Altmann : No, where did I? Jason. I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I love meteorites. And, yes, I like my profession too, a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of. These are the four reasons, why I can't keep mum these years. Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are doing? If only a single one could explain me, which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina, in the Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South Africa (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland.. then I promise to be much quieter. Perhaps you can help me with that? So far I see only, that they risk all. Thank you Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05 An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what happened toethics?? So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them. Because that was his question. ...Interesting. Jason __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteors, by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925
Hi Shawn, One other thing that might be done is to go back and find some handwritten papers that Lapaz wrote and compare those as another source. There has to be an archive of letters from him, if he didn't type out letters or have that done. I know your convienced of the authenticity of the book's signiture. I personally would contact a handwriting expert If I had any question and get an opinion there. It would put to rest any questions (if you have any) and could be used as a pedigree source to sell the book in the future. I know that there are some fake Nininger signitures in books he wrote but that is an attempt for who ever signed them like Nininger to get more for the book or books they were selling. I believe Mike has commented about that in the past. All my best and this has been an interesting discussion and I have learn some things. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: ; Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:01 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteors,by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925 Hi Bob, AL, and Listers :) Thank you for your comments on this topic. The book that is in question has been posted on the Internet by a gentlemen that married Dr LaPaz daughter. He is handling Dr LaPaz estate and in 2001 found over 500g of Norton County meteorite in Dr LaPaz basement which 320g was taped by Dr LaPaz in fear of the fragment fracturing( I have 3 images that he sent me and if anyone wants to see the images I can email them to you if you like). Last month I had purchased 2.3s fragment with photo copy's of new paper clippings and a photo copy of a hand written letter from Dr LaPaz. Also the individual had told me about the book he uploaded to the Internet and from the email he sent me he stated Dr LaPaz would sign his name in his book. Signing your name on something you own and doing a signature for a book sign are two different things. One is lose and the other is tight. Now its funny Mike hasn't stated where he got the book from with the signature.The book that is listed on the Internet is from Dr LaPaz's personal library collection, making that book from the main source. Also when you look at the signature and the signing there are a few similarities between the two. Here is a link to the signature and the signing by Dr LaPaz. http://www.flickr.com/photos/48262...@n03/4422192244/ Take a look at the 2 L's and take a look at where the L curves. At each instance with both L's the curves are similar with their curves. This can be further seen with the P's on the top of the P, the arch lines up perfectly on the upward angle which that angle is also indicative with the L angles as well. When looking at the bottom of the P's they both point at an inward angle. Also notice the relation of where the P's start to the relation of P's arch. In both P's one can notice that the proportions are congruent. Another observation I pointed out that I think is damning is look at the P in the left corner and do you notice at the end of the P how it arches up? Now take a look at the signature and look at the end of the P and see the arches and almost closes cause its a signature. Now I would like to move to the A's. In both hand writing samples I cant pen point any similarities between the two on how they are written in style. But I did notice a pattern between the two on how they're written. Now take a look at both A's from the samples. Notice that the A's in La are different in respects to the A's in Paz. That pattern is suggestive in both writing samples where you see that one A are different to one another. Lets move on to the Z. This one was a hard one but after writing to you and having a nights rests I noticed the shapes are similar. One is tight and the other is vary loose. Where the z intersects the distance at the intersection point is similar in respects to proportion. Now what you two , I mean three are saying, if a women wrote in the book that is listed on the internet http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/11388383_xtf3A#800281414_E7khp why are there alot of similarities between the two examples of writings? I would find it very odd that there would be any similarities at all. Now lets say that the signature is from a book signing that Mike personal went to and got the signature from Dr LaPaz, I would feel that Mikes signature would validate as a good source and would confirm that the two samples have similarities. And if it wasn't signed in front of Mike the signature as an example could be in question. But again, Mike is an expert in historical books and signatures, so I would have to agree with you Bob and Al that the signature Mike provided is by Dr LaPaz. In turn we can take that example listed by Mike and compare and it to the signed name by Dr LaPaz in the other book see some good similarities in the two writing styles. Thank you Shawn Alan [meteorite-list] Meteors, by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925almitt2 at localnet.com almitt
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteors, by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925
Hi Shawn, I haven't ever suggested that a women wrote the name in the book. I simply respect Mike's ability. I don't really know who wrote in the book. I simply suggested going to some other sources that might verify what you are saying and believe ( a couple of signitures to compare to are probably not enough). Also someone who is more of an expert in handwritting than any of us. I have a friend who probably has copies of LaPaz's handwritting and is careful on his sources and most likely could shed light (if any needs to be shedded) Best! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 3:37 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteors,by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925 AL and List, It looks like you have read the past few post on this topic and what we have been discussion. I can concluded that Mike, Bob have both stated that the signing of the book that is listed on the Internets is signed by a women and not by Dr LaPaz. However I have pointed out alot of similarities and also stated where the book is from Dr LaPaz estate. To finalize this I have over looked something that is very odd if a women wrote Dr LaPaz name in his book instead of him which, Mike has suggested. http://www.flickr.com/photos/48262...@n03/4422192244/ Now there is one other thing I noticed about the two writing samples that I have been over looking. look at the L's from both samples, they both are by themselves. The next letter, A is also by its self in both samples. Now look at the P's , both P's are by themselves. And lastly, the A and Z are connected in both samples. Now from those two samples what are the odds that Bob, Al, and Mike keep saying that a female wrote the second sample would have the same letter patterns being connected and not connected, and not to mention the other patterns that are similar in both hand writing samples? Lastly, Mikes sample is an autograph and the second sample is from Dr LaPaz signing his name in his personal book for his Library usage. Those two outcomes will result in different styles, but similarities will be present if its done by the same person, which there are a few similarities which most people can see plus the letter pattern of letters being connected and not connected that its done by Dr LaPaz. Shawn Alan [meteorite-list] Meteors, by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925 al mitt almitt at kconline.com Thu Mar 11 08:27:42 EST 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Meteors, by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925 Next message: [meteorite-list] The first whetstone on eBay? Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hi Shawn, One other thing that might be done is to go back and find some handwritten papers that Lapaz wrote and compare those as another source. There has to be an archive of letters from him, if he didn't type out letters or have that done. I know your convienced of the authenticity of the book's signiture. I personally would contact a handwriting expert If I had any question and get an opinion there. It would put to rest any questions (if you have any) and could be used as a pedigree source to sell the book in the future. I know that there are some fake Nininger signitures in books he wrote but that is an attempt for who ever signed them like Nininger to get more for the book or books they were selling. I believe Mike has commented about that in the past. All my best and this has been an interesting discussion and I have learn some things. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: ; Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:01 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteors,by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925 Hi Bob, AL, and Listers :) Thank you for your comments on this topic. The book that is in question has been posted on the Internet by a gentlemen that married Dr LaPaz daughter. He is handling Dr LaPaz estate and in 2001 found over 500g of Norton County meteorite in Dr LaPaz basement which 320g was taped by Dr LaPaz in fear of the fragment fracturing( I have 3 images that he sent me and if anyone wants to see the images I can email them to you if you like). Last month I had purchased 2.3s fragment with photo copy's of new paper clippings and a photo copy of a hand written letter from Dr LaPaz. Also the individual had told me about the book he uploaded to the Internet and from the email he sent me he stated Dr LaPaz would sign his name in his book. Signing your name on something you own and doing a signature for a book sign are two different things. One is lose and the other is tight. Now its funny Mike hasn't stated where he got the book from with the signature.The book that is listed on the Inte
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteors, by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925
Greetings, No Shawn, was agreeing with him on Mike's abillity. Since you are not interested in my help I was trying to offer I won't waste any more time with you and bore the list to death. I am sure that is why Mike hasn't bothered to reply. I am sure you know better. --AL Mitterling __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" on DISCOVERY Channel Tonight + UKon Quest
Hi Geoff and all, I appreciate your pointing this out or I would have missed it. Please feel free to advise us when they are airing these on Discovery. Your friend and all my best! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Notkin" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:40 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" on DISCOVERY Channel Tonight + UKon Quest Dear Listees: Those of you in the U.S. who have been wanting to catch "Meteorite Men," but do not subscribe to Science Channel may like to know that there is a special screening of the Gold Basin episode -- respectfully dedicated to our late friend Jim Kriegh -- airing in just about thirty minutes on Discovery Channel. That's 1 am Eastern and 10 pm here in Tucson. It's actually my favorite episode. "Meteorite Men" is also currently airing on Quest Channel 38 in the UK, so hopefully some of my friends from "back home" will get a chance to catch it. Listings: http://www.questtv.co.uk/TV_Listings Thanks and best wishes from the Old Pueblo (and just back from vacation!) Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] wis met and sonny
Hi Steve and all, Good to have you back after leaving the list. --AL Mitterling - Forwarded Message From: steve arnold To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, April 21, 2010 7:45:24 PM Subject: a final goodbye to everyone Hello list.I knew someday this day would come.I am hanging it up as a meteorite collecter and a very bad met hunter.After 12 years I am leaving meteorites with my head held high.I will be leaving alot of great friends and a hand full of assholes,but better with alot than the latter.I have sold off my entire main collection.That is the collection where I had at home.I'll continue to have my private primary collection put away,so I'll be into meteorites.I have also closed my website.I will also be unsubscribing from the met list next month.So I will pass away into the night without a whimper.I'll miss everyone,but I look forward to enjoying my life with my wife and now happily again being DEBT free which is a great feeling.Also I'll miss giving away freebies,but I really enjoyed those times.I hope all who benefitted from those were happy as well.Well there is not much more to say.I wished I could have found some of those new stones last weekend.The lord is pointing me into a new phase of my life so I look with determination as to what will be like.Good luck to everyone and I hope you all find the finds of a lifetime.It has been a hell of a ride.Good luck and god bless to everyone.This time it's for good. Steve R.Arnold,Chicago,il the first Steve Arnold - Original Message - From: "steve arnold" To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 7:12 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] wis met and sonny Good morning list. I have been just around everyone who has ever owned a meteorite in our little community. And without a doubt sonny clary is one of the nicest people I've ever met. When I was in vegas 3 years ago,he came to our hotel and picked me up and took me to his home to see his collection.Even offered me a beer. He and his wife are really good people. Everytime I've been to tucson he is just so nice.I do not know how anyone could say anything bad about him. And joe you are right. What you do with your find is your biz,no one else's. I hope to be going back up there real soon. Being 2 and half hours from there makes it easy to go right back home than stay to get a motel. Again congrats to all who have found meteorites. Steve Arnold __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Boy Scout meteorite display
Hi Fred and all, Outstanding amount of people who came for the event and glad you were able to have a hands on display which I am sure touched more than several of the scouts and their parents. In a day and age that kids seem to be staring into the computer screen and not bothering with much else, it nice to know there are good kids that are getting out and learning about the real world. To touch a piece of outer space and be connected to another world is such an exciting thing that will stay with some of those kids and adults for a long time. Good luck on next years display! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: To: "meteorite list" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 10:32 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Boy Scout meteorite display Hello List, I just got the totals for my Meteorite Display at the Boy Scout day at Dinosaur Ridge in Denver. One Thousand and Eight Hundred (1,800) Cub and Boy Scouts with many of their family members came to work on their astronomy and geology merit badges. I didn't have a chance to talk to every one but I was very busy for over six hours. I had nice fresh Allende, Thuathe, regmaglypted Sikhote, Sikhote schrapnal, Gibeon slices, Toluca etched end cut, NWA 869, Wells Creek shattercones, Libyan Desert Glass, Phillipianite tektite, Vredefort impact melt breccia, Canyon Diablo individual and spheroids, and slices of a NWA L3 chondrite, Johnstown Diogenite, and NWA 047 Eucrite. The kids loved the opportunity to get a hands on experience with real meteorites. I am already planning a bigger and better display for next year. Best Regards, Fred Olsen __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites
Greetings, As the Asteroid turns. --AL - Original Message - From: "Warren Sansoucie" To: "METEORITE LIST" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 7:36 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites Ugh, Do we actually talk about meteorites on here anymore? Everyone sit down and pee. Someone call a whabulance and lets move on. If we can't, that's fine too. I'm not the boss. I can find some other forum that won't make me feel like I'm watching the script to a bad soap opera. Warren Sansoucie __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Name?
Greetings, It will be called what the Nomenclature Committee decides to name it as naming has always been done in the past. Dr. Jeff Grossman made mention the name Livingston would probably not be used due to conflict with other named specimens. Best! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: Meteorite-List Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 6:50 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Name? Hello Listers, I think the name of the meteorite should be Livingston because wasnt that the first place a meteorite was found and the media has been talking about that town. Plus it seems like that was ground zero the first couple of days when everyone rushed into WI. Shawn Alan Jeff Grossman wrote on April 17th: I see everybody starting to call this fall "Livingston"... but this is not likely to be accepted as the name since there are already meteorites named Livingston (Montana) and Livingston (Tennessee). Jeff [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Name? James Balister balisterjames at att.net Fri May 7 18:06:46 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Name? Next message: [meteorite-list] OT- color/camera issues Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] You all know that we gotta call it the Livingston strewn field. In fact we should start a new nameing process where all meteorites that are from a strewn field should have a large S after it. Regardless of the name of the rock. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Saw Blades
Hi Dave and all, That is my question too ( do Dia-Laser or Pro Slicer blades work well on irons?). When the CBN blades first came out they were much better. I use to cut multipal slices of irons. Something happened to the way they were making them and your lucky to get through your first slice on the CBN blades now. My cutting process hasn't changed. I've cut for a short period before (minute or so) and checked the CBN blade only to find part of the blade still has cutting material along the edge while other portions of the blade are completely smooth. So in my experience the CBN blades are no good. So what do people use for cutting iron slices? --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "David Pensenstadler" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Saw Blades Dear List: Do either the Dia-Laser or Pro Slicer blades work well on irons? I have used the CBN blade on irons and they wear out very fast - too fast to be useful. I am hesitant about using diamond blades on irons. Anybody have experience cutting irons? Dave __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Saw Blades
Hi Dave and all, That is my question too ( do Dia-Laser or Pro Slicer blades work well on irons?). When the CBN blades first came out they were much better. I use to cut multipal slices of irons. Something happened to the way they were making them and your lucky to get through your first slice on the CBN blades now. My cutting process hasn't changed. I've cut for a short period before (minute or so) and checked the CBN blade only to find part of the blade still has cutting material along the edge while other portions of the blade are completely smooth. So in my experience the CBN blades are no good. So what do people use for cutting iron slices? --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "David Pensenstadler" To: ; "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" Cc: ; "Steve Arnold #1" ; Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Saw Blades Dear List: Do either the Dia-Laser or Pro Slicer blades work well on irons? I have used the CBN blade on irons and they wear out very fast - too fast to be useful. I am hesitant about using diamond blades on irons. Anybody have experience cutting irons? Dave __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics
Greetings, Those of you who are truly a meteorite business should already know that you are allowed to deduct .25 cents a mile for expenses and all food is only a 50% deduction while on the road. Reciepts are needed to proof that you ate and traveled where you say you did. If you traveled by plane then airfare and rental would be considered something you could deduct. As I have said before, when you have a hundred people hunting for a fall, the cost goes way up compared to a dozen or two. --AL Mitterling __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics
Hi Michael and all, I thought the Govenment wrote the laws? But then most of our representives are fairly rich, including those in power now. They spend big bucks to get elected and get big bucks for being in office. I don't see them trying to offer across the board tax for everyone to make things simple and transparent. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Michael Blood" Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics Simple: Tax laws were written by and for the wealthy __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD eBay Auctions ending Soon
Greetings, I have two ebay auctions ending in about 24 hours. I have also added a number of micro mounted specimens at good prices and will be adding more. Some unique items for collectors. These items will be going for the next couple of weeks. You can check out my auctions here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZalmittmet at ebay. Thank you for looking! --AL Mitterling __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: eBay Auctions ending in a Day
Greetings, I have a number of auctions ending in about 24 hours including a small Lost City Micro. Auctions are here: ( search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZalmittmet ) Including: Norton County, Ks Aubrite 13.3 gram fragment which is quite sizeable for this material and price lower than I have seen this material for a while. EL Hammami H5 95.9 gm part slice with crust. Monahans, Texas 1998 H5 Fall Micro in ryker display. This one is the one which landed near some kids playing basket ball. Tektite Kit that containes 5 different tektites from various locations encluding Darwin Glass, LDG, Australiaite and others. A fabulous Imilac Chile slice with equal amount of crystal to metal matrix and clear translumination crystal. A very fine dispay piece. A small Powellsville, OH slice 4.3 grams in nice display. ( I have other specimens available of this material) Lafayette, Indiana Nakhalite Martian Meteorite in nice display and with information card. Rare material. NWA 2822 an R4, 12 gram specimen with great matrix. Thank you for your time and looking. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites ( www.mitterling.com ) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moon Trees
Hi Richard and all, One of the Shuttle Missions I covered at the Kennedy Space Center, took up seeds that were eventually brought back down and given to school kids to plant later on to study any anomalies. I believe that meteorites (small) have been take up and brought back down but not planted :-) Also Richard Montgomery, If I've told dealers and collectors once, I've told them a hundred times to not touch magnets to their meteorites as it magnetizes them :-) Seriously though, studies on magnetic properties are conducted and specimens that haven't been altered by magnets are needed to check these weak magnetic fields. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Richard Kowalski" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 9:28 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Moon Trees Changing threads here. Tracy, I believe you are talking about the "Moon Trees". Trees that were grown from seeds taken to the moon and brought back during the Apollo 14 mission. There are a number of first generation trees around the United States. We have one right outside the main entrance of the Lunar and Planetary Lab here in Tucson (between the Kuiper Space Sciences building and the Flandrau Planetarium) Ours is a Sycamore. I've collected some seeds from it and will be trying to sprout a second generation Moon Tree from it. The other species of Moon Trees are Loblolly Pine, Sweetgum, Redwood, and Douglas Fir. Since there has never been a mission that has returned from Mars, there are no "Mars Trees". (Yet) I have to say when I head into the office it is kinda neat to know the seed that this tree grew from did make a trip to the moon and back. More about Moon Trees and their locations can be found here: http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/moon_tree.html -- Richard Kowalski Catalina Sky Survey Lunar and Planetary Laboratory University of Arizona http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/css/ --- On Fri, 7/2/10, tracy latimer wrote: > From: tracy latimer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites are very powerful stones! > To: warren3...@hotmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, July 2, 2010, 5:34 PM > > I remember a short story about trees grown from seeds which > had been taken on expeditions to other planets. The > original tree was from a seed taken to the Moon, and it had > a calming effect on those nearby. The tree came down > (I don't remember the circumstances) and was replaced by a > seedling from a Mars expedition. Trouble is, the tree > was near some type of world peace conference... > > Best! > Tracy Latimer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Acapulcoite/Lodranite Parent-body
Hi Jeff, Here is what McSween has to say about these two classes. Distinct in appearance but form a coherent group with continuously varying characteristics. They share simular mineralogies, both being composed largely of olivine and pyroxene, with minor plagioclase, iron-nickel metal, and troilite. They have similar oxygen isotopic composition, however they don't define a clear mass-fractionation line. He states that Tim McCoy and colleges shown that the acapuloite-lodranite achondites represent sesidues from varying degrees of partial melting of chondrites, ranging from less than 1% to as great as 25%. It is thought that the lodranite material formed deeper in the parent body, and rising melts generated from them passed through fractures in the overlying acapulites on the way to the surface. An age of 4.56 billion years has been determained for the Acapulco-lodranite parent body from percise lead isotop chronometer. Partial melting occured shortly after accretion. Spectra of acapulcoites are similar to those of ordinary chondrites and lodranites have spectra similar to a variety of "S" subtype asteroids, suggestions include S(III), S(IV), and S(V) depending on the amount of melt extracted. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Jeff Kuyken" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 7:23 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Acapulcoite/Lodranite Parent-body Hi all, Does anyone know enough about the Acapulcoite/Lodranite Parent-body to know what the main differences between the classifications are? Is it just the grain size or is there a composition difference etc too? Any paper references would be appreciated. Thanks, Jeff __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Acapulcoite/Lodranite Parent-body
Hi Jeff, Here is what McSween has to say about these two classes. Distinct in appearance but form a coherent group with continuously varying characteristics. They share simular mineralogies, both being composed largely of olivine and pyroxene, with minor plagioclase, iron-nickel metal, and troilite. They have similar oxygen isotopic composition, however they don't define a clear mass-fractionation line. He states that Tim McCoy and colleges shown that the acapuloite-lodranite achondites represent sesidues from varying degrees of partial melting of chondrites, ranging from less than 1% to as great as 25%. It is thought that the lodranite material formed deeper in the parent body, and rising melts generated from them passed through fractures in the overlying acapulites on the way to the surface. An age of 4.56 billion years has been determained for the Acapulco-lodranite parent body from percise lead isotop chronometer. Partial melting occured shortly after accretion. Spectra of acapulcoites are similar to those of ordinary chondrites and lodranites have spectra similar to a variety of "S" subtype asteroids, suggestions include S(III), S(IV), and S(V) depending on the amount of melt extracted. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Jeff Kuyken" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 7:23 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Acapulcoite/Lodranite Parent-body Hi all, Does anyone know enough about the Acapulcoite/Lodranite Parent-body to know what the main differences between the classifications are? Is it just the grain size or is there a composition difference etc too? Any paper references would be appreciated. Thanks, Jeff __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] LOST CITY-first meteorite fall to be photographedin the USA :)
Greetings Shawn, I like how you always like to twist things around, put words into peoples mouths so you are always right Shawn. The Pasamonte is one remarkable photo of a meteor exploding in flight. It isn't taken after the fact regardless of how you want to twist it. Michael is right. When you post inaccurate comments on this list, some people may thing your right which create the problem of setting it straight in the future. I look forward to your twisting my message around. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 12:02 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] LOST CITY-first meteorite fall to be photographedin the USA :) Hi Michael, Thank you for your insight :) I did some research and found some articles and was able to find an image taken by Mr. Charles M. Brown with his Kodak Brownie . From what I can tell from the image its a photograph of the effect of a meteor in flight showing the smoke tail which can be seen that the image was taken after the fact of the meteor in flight in New Mexico, 1933. Click http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1934PA.42..291N on the link and you can see that the photograph used in the paper shows the meteors smoke tail warping due to winds in the upper atmosphere. That would be an indication that the meteor was out of the frame when the photograph was taken. Also reports said that morning the sky had been covered with clouds in New Mexico. But again I see no evidence of a photograph to show the meteor in the frame like how you can see in Lost City :) Lost City on the other hand is the first meteorite fall to be photographed to actually document the meteor in flight, click on this link and see the difference http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/L/Lost_City_meteorite.html True there has been many meteors photographed but Lost City is the first meteorite fall to be photographed which shows the meteor in flight. A meteorite fall cant be a meteorite fall till its found? I can see what your comment means, but from the image I saw that Mr. Charles M. Brown took with his Kodak Brownie that morning shows no indication of the meteor, only the effect of what a meteor does in flight aka smoke tail where one can see the tail warping due to upper atmosphere winds. The first meteorite fall to be photographed which shows the meteor in flight is Pribram. I would love to get my hands on that stuff. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaySore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] LOST CITY Michael Blood mlblood at cox.net Sat Jul 24 21:45:01 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] AD: ORGUEIL, Almahata Sitta(2008TC3), Tagish Lake, LOST CITY meteorites ending on eBay! Next message: [meteorite-list] ad - The Geology of Mars Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hi Shawn, I am sure it was an oversight, but all your Lost City aeBay ads state it was the first fall to be photographed in the US. However, I think what you meant to say is that it was the first found due to photographing the bolide. The bolide of Pasamonte was photographed in 1933. Best wishes, Michael On 7/24/10 2:40 PM, "Shawn Alan" wrote: Hello Listers, I have some great rare and historic meteorites ending soon on eBay and other great items I would like to feature for the start of the new week. Also, keep an eye out for the next few days because Ill be introducing a great historic meteorite that is a must have for every collector to add to their collection. ORGUEIL meteorite 9mg, very rare historic fall-1864! HOAX meteorite. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260638585643&ssPageName=STR K:MESELX:IT TAGISH LAKE meteorite with fusion crust, rare!!! Most amount of nanodiamonds, the diamond that fell from heaven. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260638197532&ssPageName=ST RK:MESELX:IT LOST CITY meteorite-1st fall to be photographed in USA, RARE historic fall! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260637779562&ssPageName=STR K:MESELX:IT ORGUEIL, 3mg meteorite, very rare historic fall-1864! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260637775949&ssPageName=STR K:MESELX:IT ALMAHATA SITTA meteorite 2008TC3 LOT with fusion crust! First meteorite to be observed from space before entering Earths atmosphere. MUST HAVE. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260637778682&ssPageName=STR K:MESELX:IT 5mg ORGUEIL meteorite LOT, very rare historic fall-1864! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260637780569&ssPageName=STR K:MESELX:IT TAGISH LAKE meteorite 26mg-nanodiamonds present, rare!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260638200091&
Re: [meteorite-list] Oscar E. Monnig Meteorite Gallery
Hi Pete and all, This is an impressive gallery. The online website was done (I believe) by Geoff Notkin for TCU. Oscar Monnig was the Nininger of the state of Texas. He went to great lengths to recover Texas specimens and collect them. Art Ehlmann spent years making the collection better by trades and continuing the tradition started by Oscar. Art told me that Oscar would never turn down a specimen that was found by a farmer or rancher during his era. Some he knew were from the same strewnfield where specimens were found before but he wanted to make sure that people would know if they found something he would buy their meteorite. If you haven't been to visit the collection, I highly recommend you do that. It's one of the great collections in the United States. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Pete Pete" To: "meteoritelist meteoritelist" Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 5:47 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Oscar E. Monnig Meteorite Gallery Hello, all, I stumbled onto this site worth viewing - Oscar E. Monnig's meteorite gallery: http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4299332/Main/4298136 http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4299332/Main/4298136 Cheers, Pete __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites 101-Bolide
Hi Mark and all, My definition of bolide which I used years before meteorite collecting, was a bright meteor that breaks up during the fall. I agree an offical definition would be good, although I disagree with the downsizing of Pluto and could only hope for an accurate one for bolide. Best to all. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Mark Bowling" To: Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites 101-Bolide Hi all, I have understood from my study that a bolide refers to a meteor that breaks up - not requiring the detection of an audible report because, if observed from a distance, the sound may not be heard. It is not a bright meteor or fireball or large impactor, but simply a meteor that breaks up. Right or wrong, that's the way I've been using the term when I report seeing one on the list. Has anybody else been using it that way? I've been lucky to have seen several dozen over the years (often colorful), but none up close like Elton (yet!). I would agree that the IAU should come up with a definition because the term has come to mean too many things and its use is not going to go away any time soon. In fact with the current explosion of public interest (no pun intended), more people are going to find the term and grab onto it. See you all soon! Mark B. Vail, AZ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Happy Birthday Harvey Harlow Ninginger
Greetings Keith and all, Wish Nininger was here to see what todays collectors and hunters are doing today. Those wanting to read more about Nininger can go to the Meteorite Times site here: click http://www.meteorite.com/nininger/ and read the Nininger Moments. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Arizona Keith" To: Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 4:03 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Birthday Harvey Harlow Ninginger Hello List I like to post a Happy Birthday to Harvey Harlow Ninginger born Jan. 17 1887, The Father of Meteorite Hunting. Hope to see many of you in Tucson. Thanks for your time. Keith Chandler AZ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA Wholesalers
Greetings, While it is nice that you want to sell your specimens to dealers, sending picture files without first asking is considered very rude. I don't need a dozen of you sending me megabites of information that I don't want and I am sure others don't want. Have the kindness to ask before you send. All such files are deleted by my security software. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorits __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ASU/Tucson Gem Show Questions
Greetings Shawn and all, The ASU Collection is in Tempe, AZ. The Meteorite Museum is located in the ASU Bateman Physical Sciences Building C-Wing, Room 139. Regular hours are Monday through Friday, 9:30 AM to 4:30 PM. Not open on holidays. The Collection houses most of the former Nininger Collection and has been added to over the years. Dr. Carlton Moore was the first director/scientist who researched the collection and made significant additions to it. You can go to the website and read more about it and the researchers here: http://meteorites.asu.edu/about-us/people/researchers and here: http://meteorites.asu.edu/about-us for details. Some of the scientists like Dr. Laurence Garvie (Collections Manager), Dr. Meenakshi Wadhwa (researcher), Dr. Michelle Minitti (assistant director) are often at the Tucson Show looking and socializing. I wrote a review of the collection in the February 2010 issue of Meteorite Magazine, titled The ASU Meteorite Collection. It will give you some idea about going and seeing the collection which I recommend. It will take you a good two hours to get there from Tucson depending on traffic. I'd recommend leaving early and being up there when it is first opens. I'd leave before rush hour traffic in order to get back to Tucson. You should give such a field trip there 3/4's of a day. I'd try to contact the staff to see if they would consider giving you a backroom tour well ahead of time. Pehaps a group could arrange such a field trip. Hope this helps. All my best! --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 6:03 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] ASU/Tucson Gem Show Questions Hello Listers, Looks like the Gem show is already on its way in Tucson, I wonder what will be the hit this year at the show, only time will tell unless some Listers have a hunch? As for the shows I am wondering will ASU be par taking in the Tucson Gem activities and who's the Curator or in charge of the meteorite department, if anyone knows please let me know :) Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteoritists: Do Angrites Originate from Mercury?
Hi Walter, A non-scientist chiming in. A while back we had this discussion when someone was promoting their material and used this as a possible selling point. I believe in the end based on sited scientific papers it was mostly agreed there is not any real proof of the angrite material coming from Mercury. I have included some reference material for your and other list member's reading by scientists on this subject. Here: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20070021589_2007019150.pdf and here: http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1995Metic..30..269L . Here is another list post: http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2010-July/066945.html on this subject. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites - Original Message - From: "Walter Branch" To: Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 8:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteoritists: Do Angrites Originate from Mercury? Hello Everyone, As the subject line indicates, I would like to know what the scientists on the list think about the idea that the Angrites parent planet is the planet Mercury. I would really like to know their opinion. Yes. No. Maybe? And why or why not? Characteristics of magnetism, oxygen isotopic ratios, density, chemical composition? What have you. What are the data to support your conclusion? I would very much like to hear from scientists who have actually handled this material. Not non-scientists (such as myself), scientist wannabes, scientists spokespeople, name droppers, etc. Just scientists. Thanks, -Walter Branch __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: SALE! 40% OFF My PRICES Ending In 5 Hours
Greetings, 5 hours to pick up some bargins on rare items like Lost City, HED Meteorite Kit, Nice Slice of EL Hammami with crust at about 1/3 the price I see advertised on websites, Oriented Millbillillie and many other nice specimens. See link below and thank you for your bids. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites Since Most everyone is in Tucson, thought I would offer some interesting offerings on eBay for those who are bored. I am offering items on eBay for 40% off my normal catalog prices. I have NOT marked prices higher to discount them. Some items are below my cost! I may list more specimens if I don't end up too far in the hole. I don't bid up my own auctions and I don't have friends bid my items up. There are bargins for some nice sized specimens. Good luck! Items include: Nice big Slice of Seymchan, Tektite kit with 5 unique tektites, Poweellsville, OH, 2 Lost City specimens .88 gram and 1.4 gram, Richfield Kansas LL3.7, A Canyon Diablo from Meteor Crater, an HED Meteorite kit with one each of a howardite, eucrite, and a diogenite, EL Hammammi crusted slice with shock vein, Gibeon Slice, Ghubara whole individual 436 grams (about a pound), Gao H5 fragment 80% complete, Kora Korabis, Namibia H5 breccia fragment 469.2 gram, Millbillillie, Australia eucrite whole individual 100% crust. See my link below. http://shop.ebay.com/almittmet/m.html Feel free to contact me off list or through eBay. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites www.mitterling.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Unknown irons at ASU
Greetings, The Iron Handbooks by Buchwald would be the best source for trying to do this but one would have to consider irons that may have been found or fell after his putting the books together. I'll take a look at these later and venture a guess. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "e-mail ensoramanda" To: "Martin Altmann" Cc: Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 6:20 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Unknown irons at ASU Hi Martin, In a way that's what I was saying.many etched iron slices have very characteristic patterns with regularly occurring inclusions etc which show up differently on the cut angleso as a project it would be very complex and would need to show how those things differ (or are similar) in each meteorite for different anglesbut it could be a wonderful resource if someone had the time and expertise to compile an illustrated book.. I would certainly buy it. Cheers, Graham On 11 February 2011 10:31, Martin Altmann wrote: I don't know Graham, whether that would work, Because the same iron can look very different, just depending on the angle of the cut plane through the crystals. Same applies especially to the Neumann lines. Laurence, any hints, how long those pieces are already in the collection? Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von e-mail ensoramanda Gesendet: Freitag, 11. Februar 2011 10:38 An: Laurence Garvie Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Unknown irons at ASU Looking at your slices and their widmanstatten patterns it strikes me there is scope here for a book about identifying widmanstatten patterns and their subtle characteristics for individual finds/fallsor is their already one I'm not aware of...now there's a project for someone! Sorry can't help with identification, I'd just be guessingalthough pretty sure non of them is Taza. Graham, UK On 11 February 2011 05:22, Laurence Garvie wrote: I found four unlabeled iron meteorite slices in the collection at Arizona State University. They can be seen at www.flickr.com/photos/meteorite_scientist/sets/72157625897257655/ If anyone recognizes any of the slices then please let me know at lgar...@asu.edu Thanks Laurence CMS ASU __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: eBay Auction Ending In 5 Hours
Greetings, I have three eBay Auctions ending in about five hours. Items are a larger whole Gibeon of about 25 lbs, a smaller whole Gibeon 4.5 lbs and a crusted slice of the EL Hamammi fall about 92grams. See auctions here: http://shop.ebay.com/almittmet/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562 Thanks! --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Labels
Hi Dennis and all, It is pretty incomplete. I've sold hundreds of thousands of meteroites and I don't see my business name in there. What else are they missing? --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites - Original Message - From: "Dennis Miller" To: Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 5:12 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Labels Here is a good list of Labels, Old and New... http://labels.sv-meteorites.com/ Dennis Miller __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Point of Diminishing returns (Slice thickness)?
Greetings, Interesting discussion on meteorite thickness, weight, value and slices etc. and so on. My problem with cutting slices too thin are many. While you get a great looking slice with good surface area there are trade offs. Number one is there is more breakage when trying to cut ultra thin slices. Breakage should cause the price of the material to rise, if you have a truly limited amount of that material in the first place. Two. Thin slices that are made without breakage are also prone to breaking later on. It could break during shipping to the buyer. Breaking a full slice can reduce the value of that slice, especially if there are only a couple of full slices in the world of that material. Even if you don't break it if you sell it later there is a chance it could break in shipping. You can always sell the two half slices and the multiple crumbs then. Three. Another consideration is if the surface of the slice needs refinishing at some point (even if it is not in your lifetime) the odds again are higher that it will break while being worked on. A thicker slice can be resurfaced multiple times assuring it survives being studied, viewed and appreciated in the future. Four. Cutting specimens ultra thin causes waste of material. First you get more slices but at the lost of more material. One commenter mentioned 60% which sound right to me when cutting ultra thin. Again if the material is truly very limited, scientifically valuable material could be lost. I can appreciate cutting material where there is lots of that material and to cut ultra thin as there will be multiple kilos of it for sometime. For those who collect thin slices I am not picking on you but just posting my thoughts of these ultra thin cut slices and the pros and cons. Please don't take it personal. I do have some ultra thin slices in my collection. I coined the phrase that I am the current caretaker of the meteorite specimens I currently posses which will be past on to future generations. It is my job with that collection to try to preserve it best I can. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Not to worry. Nukes are good.
Hi Count and all, Glad to see your post here. I just made the same comment to people yesterday who were worried. I believe that most (sensible) reactors use water to moderate the reaction. If the reactor gets too hot (pressure and all) then the water evaporates and the reaction stops. 3 Mile Island would have been a whole lot better if they had done nothing. It is the extra things they shouldn't have done that caused most of the problems. I believe there is a lot more education now for people involved in those. The Russian disaster was the result of using graphite rods to moderate the reaction. The reactor got too hot, warped the rods and they couldn't be pulled out and the result was a melt down. They only problem I see with nuclear energy is what to do with spent rods. We need a good way to contain them where nut jobs can't get there hands on them to hurt people. They leave the fuel in the rods so they are ten times larger than they have to be to make it harder for someone to walk off with material. Best and my heart goes out to all the Japanese people who have lost love ones and will have major clean up to do for weeks. I hope that things will go smooth and without further disaster. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Count Deiro" To: "Michael Gilmer" Cc: ; "drtanuki" Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 11:48 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Not to worry. Nukes are good. Not to worry Mike, Dirk and Listers, The GE designed reactors (1960) at Fukushima/Daiichi have triple on site redundancy in cooling and containment and the possibility of an uncontrolled environmentally harmful release of radioactive (in this case steam) is negligible. It's all in the numbers. When the media reports that core pressures are such and such above normal and that the radioactivity that might be released is " thousand of times above normal", they fail to tell you that "normal" is such a low level of emission as to mean nothing to humans, or the environment. This same kind of irresponsible reporting created the infamous, an unnecessary, panic at "Three Mile Island" where the total tritium release equated to a couple of X-rays, or a trip across the USA on an airliner. My point is, that If you demonstrated to the typical uneducated man in the street that a bit of Trinitite was giving off 1000 times the background (normal) radiation level, he'd panic. I've proved this by putting a contamination meter on Trinitite samples with the sensitivity set to high and watching my victim's reaction as it loudly goes off scale. When I served on Nevada's Nuclear Waste Study Committee and was the entertainment on the Chamber of Commerce and Lion's Club rubber chicken circuit, I used to place a common household smoke detector (They contain an Americium emitter) under some hapless audience member's chair and then, much to his discomfort, using a meter to locate him. The great unwashed have more fears than medieval peasants, yet they refuse to expend the mental sweat to learn the science. Ask them to listen to more than two sentences describing fission and their eyes glaze over. Yet their votes decide the future of energy production, or better said..the lack of itin my country. Regards and stay calm. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Read it and laugh!
Hi Count and all, I am sure the media isn't doing this to up their viewing audience. After a disaster there are always rumors that floating around and hearsay by people who are not in the know. If I see the Japanese Government or engineers from the reactor giving out warnings then I'll take this seriously. Agreed they don't need this mis-reporting by the media who usually is interested in upping it's viewing audience to spread other propaganda. Best to all. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites - Original Message - From: "Count Deiro" To: Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2011 11:19 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Read it and laugh! Dear List, The suffering Japanese have enough "real" threats and consequences to shoulder without the added fear and panic being spread about a possible "nuclear meltdown" in the media. No reactor has "disappeared". Nobody, not even the guys in the white smocks on scene, has been exposed to a level of radiation remotely harmful. Nor will they be. They did get knocked on their butts when the quake hit and the exterior "hall" subsequently blew because of accumulated hydrogen/oxygen. The USA did not send any cooling "material" to the scene. A bald faced lie by Clinton. The evacuation ordered is to cover the power consitorium and the government's ass from the inevitable flood of liabilty claims that will inundate the courts after this tragic event runs it course and the lawyers crawl out from under the tables and things begin to return to normal. Read the sensational headlines implying nuclear Armageddon has already occurred and then peruse the body copy. Without fail the stories are prefaced by the qualifiers.."May","Could","Might". Nothing definite. All supposition and cynical fear mongering. Stay calm, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] possible dioginite freebie part-slices
Steve and all, You mention a person in your post, known to have misrepresented specimens in the past. If your still dealing with this person then you (and others) are enabling him to continue mess up collections. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites - Original Message - From: "steve arnold" To: Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:43 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] possible dioginite freebie part-slices Good evening list.I hope all are fine out there.Hey possible good news on a possible new fall in the south regions of our country.I want to thank bob evans for cutting my possible dioginite.He did a great job.I have 5 small part-slices to givaway to any who chime in.Please remember to give me your address and also USA only on this.Postage is expensive and I have no job.But am pounding the streets very hard.Good eveving to all. Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go
Hi Martin and all, I don't think that Stevee can hold his breath that long. Big Pond to cross for a meteorite, you know. ;-) --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Martin Altmann" To: Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go What do you want? In Munich area it's over 8.6$ a gallon. Take a bicycle. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von steve arnold Gesendet: Freitag, 8. April 2011 12:29 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] freebies to go Good morning list.5:30 AM RISE AND SHINE! Hey I have lots more freebies to give away.Unclassed stones and black campo crystals. 8 people have chimed in and I still have 12 more to go.Remember USA only because of postage rates.Almost as bad as gas prices.In chicago area its over $4 a gallon.Anyway,have a great day all. Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ??SaharaMet...who are they!
Hi Michael and all, How long before your book is out?? I'd like to have some to sell. Best!! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Michael Blood" To: "Dave Myers" ; "Paul H." ; "Meteorite List" Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 8:33 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ??SaharaMet...who are they! RE: The Pelissons: Am nearly finished with my book, METEORITE MARKET TRENDS 1997 through 2010 and today finished compiling The first half of the book. In doing so, I covered these two Chapters earlier today that addressed this issue: -- METEORITE MARKET TRENDS December, 2004 by Michael Blood As the Tucson Show approaches: The "Meteorite Week" will be the first week of Feb.culminating on the weekend with: The now famous "Birthday Bash" Friday evening, Feb. 5th. This year at a new location yet to be announced but enough space to hold EVERYONE, which now means A LOT of folks! Of course we will all be blessed with celebrating the recipients of the Harvey Awards for the year presented by the Cheech and Chong of the Meteorite community: Geoff Notkin and THE REAL Steve Arnold, usually dressed in Western garb, but with these two who knows with these two? This is an event never missed by the other Steve Arnold (of Chicago!!!), as well. Proud Tom will also be there, but, unfortunately, since he has been in hiding low these many months, and since, even when "out" he is not really "out" but rather closeted, we will, no doubt, NOT see himS. though he will undoubtedly be there. (sounds a bit biblical, doesn't it?) Saturday, Feb. 6th will see two auctions: The second year of the Al Lang Silent Auction will conclude in the Executive Inn, Rm130. Bids can be placed throughout that week. Exact time of conclusion is unclear at "press time" but you can check with Al or Iris Lang when writing in your bid that week or early in the day, Saturday. The Michael Blood Auction or People's Auction will be held in the same location as last year at 1150 N. Beverly 119 Ave. off Speedway. This is the VFW Post #4903 & full directions are available on the Auction Website at http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson05.html Sunday, Feb. 7th the Macovich auction will be held at 10 AM next to the pool at Inn Suites. Pieces will be on display most of the week preceding the auction in Darryl Pitt's room. People should look to Meteorite Exchange for a list that will soon appear listing each and every meteorite dealer and event not to be missed at Tucson the meteorite Mecca of the world. LATE BRAKING ADDENDUM! Bruno & Carine have informed the meteorite community of the following actions taken by Roland and Richard Pelisson of SaharaMet: "What the Pellissons are doing is just unbelievable, they already did contact the French interior Ministry as well as the Customs offices in different countries. They are linking the meteorite community to terrorismS" If one goes to Google and types in "money for terrorism" the top site listed is a page from the Pellissons' web site: http://www.saharamet.com/meteorite/data/Sahara/Nwa.html While a good deal of propaganda fills the pages, it essentially states that any and everyone exporting NWA meteorites, 120 EXCEPT THEMSELVES are engaged in the financing of terrorism! This is the most outrageous crappola to result from the 9/11 tragedy since the issuance of the "Homeland Security Act, removing most of the constitutional rights of US citizens. Read the following paragraph which is a direct quote from their site: "Smugglers, dealers, investors, all the people who buy, sell, trade and publish documents about these meteorites want to conceal the truth. As long as the collectors believe that unknown hunters wish to keep the locations of their finds secret, that all these meteorites are good for science and a good purchase, the business will go on! The plundering of North Africa, the support to organized smuggling rings, the financing of terrorism, all that happens behind the Moroccan border in Saharan countries is of little concern for too many people today." I have seen outrageous acts committed by meteorite dealers in an attempt to discredit what they consider competition (rather than colleagues) but nothing comes remotely close to THIS! Thanks to the actions being taken by the Pelissons the entire meteorite community will likely become tainted in the eyes of not only the public in general, but by customs in particular and entire governments! Of course, the implications of these accusations in terms of impact on the Meteorite Market are overwhelming! Stay tunedSS Michael 121 METEORITE MARKET TRENDS January, 2005 by Michael Blood If you read last month's column, you are aware of the international concern arising from the Pelissons taking to a court of law their ludicrous claim of NWA meteorite dealing and collecting being directly linked to terrorism. If the courts begin to attach
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting (LAWS) by Country
Hi Martin and Roman, One other problem I would see if someone went to the trouble of trying to put all this in a reference guide to let would be hunters know what laws exist, is the probability of the laws always changing. It would be valid perhaps the first year then after that possible new laws might be in acted that could alter where hunters could hunt in different countries. If someone were to go to the trouble of trying to compose such a guide, I'd enlist meteorite enthusiast from around the globe to check out laws in various places, give them a time frame, then put together all the known area laws into the guide. You would no doubt have to have some areas listed as unknown and to hunt only after you check out local laws, get permission and so forth. Probably the most valid item would be to see if the landowner has rights on their own property. Negative aspect of all this is countries might see the guide and make new laws where none existed before hand. Creating a guide would certainly would be a monumental task that is for sure. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Martin Altmann" To: Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting (LAWS) by Country Hi Roman, meteorites are so scarce, that it is very unlikely that in many states a special legislation does exist for them at all. Currently you have more than 200 nations on the globe. Most of them are subdivided into smaller administrative units with own legal regulations. So you would have to check, which laws do exist, you would have to interpret existing laws, which weren't made for meteorites, whether they can be overstretched to cover meteorites and you would have to prove, whether different laws override each other. Simple examples: Analog.. in my little home state, the free state of Bavaria, it is forbidden to remove any artifact from the soil. So normally you'd say, anyone praising an artifact for sale, telling he found it in Bavaria, would act illegally. - Well, but we have another law, that despite the act of removing the artifact from the soil is illegal, nevertheless the finder becomes legal owner of the artifact. Drive 50 miles into another federal state, there you have a different legislation, there the state is owner of such a find. HUhuhu, the dimensions, because some try to lump meteorites together with a artifacts under one law: Per year the chief of the archeological office estimates, that more than 1 million of artifacts are lost due to this regulation in Bavaraia. Meteorites found per year in Bavaria: 0.02. Therefore we don't have a law for meteorites, the constitution interdicts to create laws for single cases. Other example - Neuschwanstein III, there the court decided not only about the question about the ownership landowner versus finder - which concerns whole Austria, but also whether the finder was legally allowed to pick up that stone. That was another, an environmental law, only valuable for the federal state of Tyrol. And there he was allowed to do so, cause the stone had a certain size only and he didn't use heavy equipment to remove it from the soil. So if the stone would have been larger, who knows... And anyway it was a court of first instance, a court of the next instance could have come to a different sentence. (But finder and landowner came to an agreement outside of court). Austria is as small as Indiana, but has 9 federal states. So you see Roman, where the problem is (if one can call it so, cause we're talking with meteorites still about weird trivia). You would have to check Himalayas of regulations and laws, whether there are some, whether there are none, you would have to interpret laws, which is at best and in case the job of a court, you would have to do that for different questions: Landowner vs. Finder. Hunting, Trespassing, Removal, Export. State versus individuals, ect. pp. - and that for thousands and thousands of regulations of thousands of administrative territories and that all considering different legal systems, you have some which work with precedences, others which make decisions on a case base...and so on. Also in some cases you will have laws, which are in contradiction to the constitution of the respective country, hence in the case of application not valuable And in the end you wouldn't despite all that not be able to give legally binding information. It's everything else than trivial. You saw it that even Schmitt&Barristers, lawyers, failed to give correct information about relatively simple looking regulations. And all in all, Roman - we shouldn't exaggerate!! On whole world and in all history, there exist almost no court cases about meteorites. And those few we have, were almost all between private parties, about who is the owner or about simple theft. And why do we have so few court decisions? Because meteorites are so rare and because quite all involved are mature and reasonable people living i
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting (LAWS) by Country
Hi Ed, One might post in this guide situations like Mike Farmer and Robert Ward had so those who might consider hunting could avoid it rather than take chances. At least make an educated guess or risk. We have had others who have been detained before those guys. Robert Haag in Argentina who was sold a false bill of good and a hefty one at that. At least they let him hang around the jail without being in it. He answered the phone when his sister called about him :-) Bet that was a surprise for both. Again it would have to be constantly updated making it nearly impossible to be current. Ed, do you hail from West Virgina?? All my best! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Ed Deckert" To: "al mitt" ; Cc: "Roman Jirasek" ; "Martin Altmann" Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting (LAWS) by Country Hi Al, You hit the nail square on the head. Maintaining a book like this could be like trying to herd cats. Given the instability in the Middle-East, with government changes, etc, the laws there can change by the hour. Unfortunately, if Michael Farmer and Robert Ward had such a publication with them, and quoted Oman's laws from it when they were taken into custody or during their "trial" - the outcome would not have been any different. Even so, it would be a great guide to help prevent meteorite hunters from breaking any laws. Ed - Original Message - From: "al mitt" To: Cc: "Roman Jirasek" ; "Martin Altmann" Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting (LAWS) by Country Hi Martin and Roman, One other problem I would see if someone went to the trouble of trying to put all this in a reference guide to let would be hunters know what laws exist, is the probability of the laws always changing. It would be valid perhaps the first year then after that possible new laws might be in acted that could alter where hunters could hunt in different countries. If someone were to go to the trouble of trying to compose such a guide, I'd enlist meteorite enthusiast from around the globe to check out laws in various places, give them a time frame, then put together all the known area laws into the guide. You would no doubt have to have some areas listed as unknown and to hunt only after you check out local laws, get permission and so forth. Probably the most valid item would be to see if the landowner has rights on their own property. Negative aspect of all this is countries might see the guide and make new laws where none existed before hand. Creating a guide would certainly would be a monumental task that is for sure. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Martin Altmann" To: Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting (LAWS) by Country Hi Roman, meteorites are so scarce, that it is very unlikely that in many states a special legislation does exist for them at all. Currently you have more than 200 nations on the globe. Most of them are subdivided into smaller administrative units with own legal regulations. So you would have to check, which laws do exist, you would have to interpret existing laws, which weren't made for meteorites, whether they can be overstretched to cover meteorites and you would have to prove, whether different laws override each other. Simple examples: Analog.. in my little home state, the free state of Bavaria, it is forbidden to remove any artifact from the soil. So normally you'd say, anyone praising an artifact for sale, telling he found it in Bavaria, would act illegally. - Well, but we have another law, that despite the act of removing the artifact from the soil is illegal, nevertheless the finder becomes legal owner of the artifact. Drive 50 miles into another federal state, there you have a different legislation, there the state is owner of such a find. HUhuhu, the dimensions, because some try to lump meteorites together with a artifacts under one law: Per year the chief of the archeological office estimates, that more than 1 million of artifacts are lost due to this regulation in Bavaraia. Meteorites found per year in Bavaria: 0.02. Therefore we don't have a law for meteorites, the constitution interdicts to create laws for single cases. Other example - Neuschwanstein III, there the court decided not only about the question about the ownership landowner versus finder - which concerns whole Austria, but also whether the finder was legally allowed to pick up that stone. That was another, an environmental law, only valuable for the federal state of Tyrol. And there he was allowed to do so, cause the stone had a certain size only and he didn't use heavy equipment to remove it from the soil. So if the stone would have been larger, who knows... And anyway it was a court of fi
Re: [meteorite-list] odds and ends
Steve, That is 5 (five) ads in one week. Your suppose to limit your AD posts to one per week. By posting multipal ads in a single week your saying you think you are better than the rest of us who DO abide by the list rules. My big problem is the fraud you are helping out. If you really cared about this hobby you wouldn't continue to do so. Please abide by the list rules. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "steve arnold" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 9:18 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] odds and ends - Original Message - From: "steve arnold" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 2:28 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) more meteorites forsale - Original Message - From: "steve arnold" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 6:29 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] more meteorites for sale (AD) 2 - Original Message - From: "steve arnold" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 8:43 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) meteorites forsale 25% off - Original Message - From: "steve arnold" To: Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) holbrook and oum dreyga __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Is Pena Blanca Springs meteorite a hammerstone?????
Hi Frank, Shawn and all, I believe that Nininger described this fall in one of his books. It was described as a stock pond. Ranch hands were having a picnic lunch when the fall occured hitting the water and splashing the ranch hands. Two of the men dove down and recovered it shortly. It had split into halfs. Pena Blanca IS water solibal and would have disolved if it handn't been immediately recovered. Haag told me that they used an oil to cut with and then the oil has to be pull out of the material somehow. It has a slight smell because of that. So If the meteoroid upon impact of the water splashes the ranch hands, no doubt (if you want to be technical ), some particles of the meteorite would have been in the water that splash the ranch hands does that qualify as a hammer stone? I'll leave that to the hammer stone experts. Another log of the fire. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites - Original Message - From: "Frank Cressy" To: "Shawn Alan" ; Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 3:27 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is Pena Blanca Springs meteorite a hammerstone? Shawn and all, The "swimming pool" quote is used in the abstract. Later in the article the "swimming pool" is described thusly: "Springs issue at a point where a water gap has been eroded through the ridge and form a creek which flows southeast. About 400 feet below the springs, the creek is confined by a dam 4 feet high. At the head of the pool the water is about 10 feet in depth and 20 feet wide." The "swimming pool" is the pool made by damming the creek, no doubt for irrigation and/or supplying water for livestock. A photo of the pool is in the May 2000 issue of Meteorite magazine in an article about PBS. The only man-made construction involved is the dam. So I'd say "no" to it being a "hammer." ( unless there was meteoritic material in the water that splashed on the farm truck that was driving by at the time of the fall). Cheers, Frank - Original Message From: Shawn Alan To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, April 15, 2011 11:39:12 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Is Pena Blanca Springs meteorite a hammer stone? Hello Listers, I have a good question I was doing some searching around on the net today and I came across an article called THE PENA BLANCA SPRING METEORITE, BREWSTER COUNTY, TEXAS BY John T. Lonsdale University of Texas, Austin Texas With in the article it was stated that the meteorite plunged into a swimming pool feed by natural spring water hence where the meteorite got its name. I have also read this meteorite was recovered from a pond, stock pond. Now can these natural spring water swimming pools be man made and if so was the one on Gages ranch about 9.5 miles southeast of Marathon in Brewster County, Texas man made as well? If thats the case wounldnt Pena Blanca Springs meteorite be a HAMMER STONE? Good indication that can suggest that this swimming pool/ pond could be man made is that after the pool was drained about 4 feet below normal level to recover some of the meteorite fragments. In order to drain a pool/pond there has to be some construction implemented in order to achieve that? Down below is some points taken from the article and also a link to the whole article. Please take a look and share your thoughts on what you think. Abstract The Pena Blanca Spring meteorite fell August 2, 1946, in the swimming pool at the headquarters of the Gage Ranch near Marathon in Brewster County, Texas. Twenty-four people were within a few hundred feet of the point of fall, and one person saw the meteorite in flight. Many interesting incidents were accurately reported. As far as known, man has never constructed a device in which to trap a meteorite falling to the earth. Had he done so, possibly he could not have improved upon the swimming pool at the headquarters of the Gage ranch about 9.5 miles southeast of Marathon in Brewster County, Texas. This swimming pool received the Pena Blanca Spring meteorite with a violent splash at about 1:20 p.u. on August 2, 1946. The meteorite is named from the spring which forms the swimming pool and which is an historic landmark in the region. http://www.minsocam.org/ammin/AM32/AM32_354.pdf Lastly, why I brought this up is because in numerous cases I have read swimming pool and swimming pool means man made. But again the word can be subjective. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/me
Re: [meteorite-list] Is Pena Blanca Springs meteorite a hammerstone?????
Greetings, Sorry for the mis-spelled words. Forgot to spell check in my hasty post. Best! --AL Mitterling __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mifflin, And Other Wisconsin Meteorites Wanted
Greetings, If anyone has any of the Mifflin Meteorite available for sale, please send me an off list email of size, condition and price. I am also interested in trying to obtain other Wisconsin falls. If you have any material you want to part with please email me off list. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Which came first the chicken or the egg?
Hi Shawn and all, Perhaps I can shed some light on this subject. First, the Japanese also found a lunar probably before ALH81005 but didn't get around to classifying it until after Allen Hills. I think the same might be said of Calcalong Creek that it wasn't studied for a while after the find. No doubt there are other type specimens that are sitting in drawers that would have made history as the first type specimen found but until the research is done then we can't look back until something is officially recognized or we would really be re-writing meteorite history all the time, regardless of the order it was found. First come first served! Calcalong Creek was a big deal in the 1990's when it officially became recognized. I was invited to a dinner with Robert Haag, Joel Schiff of Meteorite Magazine and the Nortons (Rocks From Space) (thanks Joseph!) and after dinner we went to Bob Haag's house and into the vault. We got to see many of Robert's fine specimens (Pena Blanca was amazing) but most of all we were all able to hold his personal Calcalong Creek specimen. What an honor. At this time I can't recall the date but will try to come up with one soon. I'd say that Bob Haag probably had the specimen for a while, perhaps the finder had specimen they were hanging on to before it reach the market and sold to Bob. You also have to remember at that time 1970's when Millbillillie was being collected, scientists didn't think it was possible for lunar material to survive a trip to the Earth even though it had been suggested a couple of centuries before hand. With the recognizing of Allen Hills 81005 as lunar, it opened up many eyes that lunar meteorites do fall and survive passage. While you may be correct about the order of find, a certain order and protocol had to first happen in order for the specimen to be finally recognized. All my best! --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: "Frank Cressy" Cc: "meteoritelist" Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 1:10 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Which came first the chicken or the egg? Yes I can agree that the ALHA81005 is the first classified meteorite, however to say that it was the first lunar to be found has some little doubts because of what had be going on in Austrial from 1960 to 1990 with the collecting of the Millbillillie meteorites. I would like to see or hear what Robert Haag can recall from that day when he found that specail meteorite. Hes the first source and could help enlighten what he can recall from the day he found the first lunar meteorite out side of Anartica and could also be the first found lunar as well. Hope he reads this and can put some light on to this fasinating discovery. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AD 225.4 Gram Haxtun meteorite H4/L4
Hi Bill, How many grams does this weigh?? --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Bill" To: Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 4:15 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] AD 225.4 Gram Haxtun meteorite H4/L4 Hello, I am selling a nice Haxtun meteorite H4/L4 that comes with Michael Casper label. I am asking $1000. Email me off-list if interested. Thanks __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AD 225.4 Gram Haxtun meteorite H4/L4
Just so I don't get another 100 emails, I do see the subject line. Bob Evans was nice to send a vulgar comment to me on this. Best to everyone. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Bill" To: Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 4:15 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] AD 225.4 Gram Haxtun meteorite H4/L4 Hello, I am selling a nice Haxtun meteorite H4/L4 that comes with Michael Casper label. I am asking $1000. Email me off-list if interested. Thanks __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Greetings, I won't mention any names and I can't prove my ideas on this, but someone told me that the known fraud was in the Mifflin area hunting. While this could be a unique fraud, I have my suspicion. Wondering if the P.O. Box could be around the Illinois area, maybe even in another state but close to the Chicago area? If so this guy is trying new tactics to sell mis-represented specimens. However usually he gets items that look like the fall and tries to sell the look alike specimens. Don't know why they can't just be honest and sell items without trying to ruin collections. Money is the motive obviously. The real crime is the people who continue to buy from him. I agree there were too many red flags on that deal and dealers should know better. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 11:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Jason and Listers, This is a very interesting post in the since I have to say something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder contacts Carl and has him send cash to a PO box. Red flag. Two the phone number is disconnected. Three the transaction was done in cash. I have to say with those three elements this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If this was a legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the correct ways via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending cash in the mail to a PO BOX? As for testing goes, cant Carl Agee do a terrestrial age analysis and also have a cre done which can prove or disprove this theory that someone is suggesting that Mifflin has two litholgies, which I have to say isnt the case and that these stones are not related to Mifflin in anyway from the evidence presented by Jason. Now the question is who was the scammer. I have to assume that one this scammer knew what they were doing and somehow was or is connected to the meteorite collecting world or they are really smart and picked up how to scam meteorite hunter 101. First of all they knew of Carl, two they knew of the fall, three, they knew of what a freshly fallen meteorite looks like and four the meteorite in question is a real meteorite but not from the same fall. I think the scammer is one of us or is connected to one of us just because of the circumstances of the event and that the meteorite is a real meteorite and has fusion crust. If it was a non meteoritest, I think it would have been a stone, but this was not the case it was a real meteorite in the mists of being a fake Mifflin. This is to good to be done by some non meteorite collector but again people are getting smarter these days to make some cash. But this means that this scammer would have to buy a real meteorite to turn around to sell as a fake recent meteorite fall. All I can say is if I came into this situation I would have thought the sale would have been a scam right from the start with me sending money to a PO box. Also I am glad I didn't buy this stuff I was able to buy some from Joe Kerchner which that had some drama in its self as well. My 2 cents Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss jason utas jasonutas at gmail.com Sat May 7 21:12:16 EDT 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Where is everyone? Facebook? Next message: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello All, My story begins in the summer of last year. I saw some strange pieces of 'Mifflin' on ebay that I thought looked funny. People were talking about the meteorite having two lithologies, but...the slices and individuals that I saw looked 'off.' A select few looked like H-chondrites, and they had the telltale signs of wear that freshly-imported Moroccan falls bear: worn edges, exposed metal flakes on protruding corners (where the fusion crust had been worn off due to improper packing), etc. At the time, I did nothing but send a private email to Anne Black notifying her of my suspicions. I spoke with some other prominent list-members addressing it, and they all agreed that the material looked funny, but that nothing could be done about it given the required burden of proof. So, I sat on my hands for several months. Just over a month ago, I saw a piece of the funny-looking 'Mifflin' on ebay. It looked similar to some pieces that I remembered seeing on ebay months before, and, being an end-cut, I was able to see both the stone's funny-looking inside -- and the apparent metal grains on the stone's exterior. I used the 'buy-it-now' option to purchase the end-cut, and it arrived while Peter and I were in Morocco. When we returned, I promptly shipped the end-cut off to Tony Irving of the University of Washington; he agreed to analyze the stone posthaste. The results came back, but Tony wanted to wait until the p
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Greetings, I won't mention any names and I can't prove my ideas on this, but someone told me that the known fraud was in the Mifflin area hunting. While this could be a unique fraud, I have my suspicion. Wondering if the P.O. Box could be around the Illinois area, maybe even in another state but close to the Chicago area? If so this guy is trying new tactics to sell mis-represented specimens. However usually he gets items that look like the fall and tries to sell the look alike specimens. Don't know why they can't just be honest and sell items without trying to ruin collections. Money is the motive obviously. The real crime is the people who continue to buy from him. I agree there were too many red flags on that deal and dealers should know better. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 11:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Jason and Listers, This is a very interesting post in the since I have to say something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder contacts Carl and has him send cash to a PO box. Red flag. Two the phone number is disconnected. Three the transaction was done in cash. I have to say with those three elements this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If this was a legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the correct ways via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending cash in the mail to a PO BOX? As for testing goes, cant Carl Agee do a terrestrial age analysis and also have a cre done which can prove or disprove this theory that someone is suggesting that Mifflin has two litholgies, which I have to say isnt the case and that these stones are not related to Mifflin in anyway from the evidence presented by Jason. Now the question is who was the scammer. I have to assume that one this scammer knew what they were doing and somehow was or is connected to the meteorite collecting world or they are really smart and picked up how to scam meteorite hunter 101. First of all they knew of Carl, two they knew of the fall, three, they knew of what a freshly fallen meteorite looks like and four the meteorite in question is a real meteorite but not from the same fall. I think the scammer is one of us or is connected to one of us just because of the circumstances of the event and that the meteorite is a real meteorite and has fusion crust. If it was a non meteoritest, I think it would have been a stone, but this was not the case it was a real meteorite in the mists of being a fake Mifflin. This is to good to be done by some non meteorite collector but again people are getting smarter these days to make some cash. But this means that this scammer would have to buy a real meteorite to turn around to sell as a fake recent meteorite fall. All I can say is if I came into this situation I would have thought the sale would have been a scam right from the start with me sending money to a PO box. Also I am glad I didn't buy this stuff I was able to buy some from Joe Kerchner which that had some drama in its self as well. My 2 cents Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss jason utas jasonutas at gmail.com Sat May 7 21:12:16 EDT 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Where is everyone? Facebook? Next message: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello All, My story begins in the summer of last year. I saw some strange pieces of 'Mifflin' on ebay that I thought looked funny. People were talking about the meteorite having two lithologies, but...the slices and individuals that I saw looked 'off.' A select few looked like H-chondrites, and they had the telltale signs of wear that freshly-imported Moroccan falls bear: worn edges, exposed metal flakes on protruding corners (where the fusion crust had been worn off due to improper packing), etc. At the time, I did nothing but send a private email to Anne Black notifying her of my suspicions. I spoke with some other prominent list-members addressing it, and they all agreed that the material looked funny, but that nothing could be done about it given the required burden of proof. So, I sat on my hands for several months. Just over a month ago, I saw a piece of the funny-looking 'Mifflin' on ebay. It looked similar to some pieces that I remembered seeing on ebay months before, and, being an end-cut, I was able to see both the stone's funny-looking inside -- and the apparent metal grains on the stone's exterior. I used the 'buy-it-now' option to purchase the end-cut, and it arrived while Peter and I were in Morocco. When we returned, I promptly shipped the end-cut off to Tony Irving of the University of Washington; he agreed to analyze the stone posthaste. The results came back, but Tony wanted to wait until the probe was recallibrated so that he could run
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Greetings, With Jason running down all the details of these questionable specimens, this is one that was found out. Now how many have not been found out??? --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Linton Rohr" To: "Shawn Alan" ; Cc: Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 3:29 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Ahoy there, Jason, Shawn and list. Intriguing situation, Jason. Thanks for sharing. And like you Shawn, I'm glad I got my beautiful little slice from Joe. I didn't see all that much "drama" in it, though. He put in a lot of work, and found enough to be able to both keep some and sell enough to feed his family. That's just plain cool, in my book. Thanks Joe! Linton - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Jason and Listers, This is a very interesting post in the since I have to say something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder contacts Carl and has him send cash to a PO box. Red flag. Two the phone number is disconnected. Three the transaction was done in cash. I have to say with those three elements this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If this was a legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the correct ways via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending cash in the mail to a PO BOX? As for testing goes, cant Carl Agee do a terrestrial age analysis and also have a cre done which can prove or disprove this theory that someone is suggesting that Mifflin has two litholgies, which I have to say isnt the case and that these stones are not related to Mifflin in anyway from the evidence presented by Jason. Now the question is who was the scammer. I have to assume that one this scammer knew what they were doing and somehow was or is connected to the meteorite collecting world or they are really smart and picked up how to scam meteorite hunter 101. First of all they knew of Carl, two they knew of the fall, three, they knew of what a freshly fallen meteorite looks like and four the meteorite in question is a real meteorite but not from the same fall. I think the scammer is one of us or is connected to one of us just because of the circumstances of the event and that the meteorite is a real meteorite and has fusion crust. If it was a non meteoritest, I think it would have been a stone, but this was not the case it was a real meteorite in the mists of being a fake Mifflin. This is to good to be done by some non meteorite collector but again people are getting smarter these days to make some cash. But this means that this scammer would have to buy a real meteorite to turn around to sell as a fake recent meteorite fall. All I can say is if I came into this situation I would have thought the sale would have been a scam right from the start with me sending money to a PO box. Also I am glad I didn't buy this stuff I was able to buy some from Joe Kerchner which that had some drama in its self as well. My 2 cents Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss jason utas jasonutas at gmail.com Sat May 7 21:12:16 EDT 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Where is everyone? Facebook? Next message: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello All, My story begins in the summer of last year. I saw some strange pieces of 'Mifflin' on ebay that I thought looked funny. People were talking about the meteorite having two lithologies, but...the slices and individuals that I saw looked 'off.' A select few looked like H-chondrites, and they had the telltale signs of wear that freshly-imported Moroccan falls bear: worn edges, exposed metal flakes on protruding corners (where the fusion crust had been worn off due to improper packing), etc. At the time, I did nothing but send a private email to Anne Black notifying her of my suspicions. I spoke with some other prominent list-members addressing it, and they all agreed that the material looked funny, but that nothing could be done about it given the required burden of proof. So, I sat on my hands for several months. Just over a month ago, I saw a piece of the funny-looking 'Mifflin' on ebay. It looked similar to some pieces that I remembered seeing on ebay months before, and, being an end-cut, I was able to see both the stone's funny-looking inside -- and the apparent metal grains on the stone's exterior. I used the 'buy-it-now' option to purchase the end-cut, and it arrived while Peter and I were in Morocco. When we returned, I promptly shipped the end-cut off to Tony Irving of the University of Washington; he agreed to analyze the stone posthaste. The results came back, but Tony wanted to wait until the probe was recallibrated so that he could run it again to be sure. Lo and behold, he
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Greetings, Since Greg has went publically and made the claim that Joe found his stone some where else other than the bridge, I would ask at this time that he provide proof to the list, this is so. While I don't have reason to not believe either Joe or Greg, someone isn't playing straight and to bring about the truth here lets see posts that were made or verification from several sources. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
Hi Greg Hupe and all, :-) Good idea as it is sometimes hard to follow what went on years laster in threads. I'd say we should do this all the time so we don't get out of practice when a big thread takes off like this. We don't want people thinking bad things about the respectable dealers out there. Best! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Greg Hupé" To: "meteoritelist" Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss Hello All...again. I am taking the advice of another member and decided to use my whole last name for other consideration I had not thought of. Like Jack Schrader's nice well wishes on Mother's Day, I also would like to wish a Happy Mother's Day to all that it applies! Best Regards, Greg Hupé __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Widmanstatten Pattern on the outside??
Hi Peter and all, That was the one I thought about also. The Muonionlusta posted by Göran Axelsson was super nice also. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Peter Scherff" To: "'Jay Snyder'" ; Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 7:26 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Widmanstatten Pattern on the outside?? Hi Jason, Lovina jumps to my mind. http://www.macovich.com/Lovina.htm Peter -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jay Snyder Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:53 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Widmanstatten Pattern on the outside?? Hello list, I am curious if anyone has ever observed an iron meteorite with a widmanstatten pattern on the outside or I guess what would be the outside or a weathered iron meteorite? I have a very small SaW 005 that shows the patten after cleaning with a mild vinegar solution, under the microscope. I've tried to capture some pictures, but am unable at this time through the scope. Very interesting indeed, and if anyone has had experiences with this I would like to hear about them or see them too. -- Jason Snyder Amateur Meteor Hunter meteorsee...@cox.net jayra...@gmail.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1325 / Virus Database: 1500/3627 - Release Date: 05/09/11 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Scam Artist - Joel Samson - FakeLunar Meteorites
Hi Gary, Greg H., Chris and all, Two names have come up recently as scammers. Joel Samson and Todd Parker. We also know of another guy from the Chicago area that is a fraud. What I would like to see is a list of people and companies that are known to be selling fakes, mis-representing material and so forth. I am not talking about someone who has made a mistake. In order to qualify, the person or company in question would have to have evidence that would support their efforts to be purposely doing something wrong. I wouldn't want a witch hunt or dealers who don't like other dealers, trying to put people on this list. I know this is probably going to open a can of worms BUT it is important to know suspect con artists, frauds and people and companies who are just not getting the fact we don't like our collections messed up. Does a list already exist? If not it sure would be nice to have one that could be shared with the collecting community from time to time. Other input appreciated. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Gary Fujihara" To: "Chris Spratt" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Scam Artist - Joel Samson - FakeLunar Meteorites I've asked the administrator of the Meteorites group on Facebook to remove this person from the group. Hopefully this will put a damper on his shenanigans, but probably nothing short of legal action will make him cease and desist. gary On May 11, 2011, at 8:50 AM, Chris Spratt wrote: Never was my friend on Facebook yet he managed to post things in a group I belong to. Is there a way to unfriend someone from a group? Chris Spratt (Via my iPhone) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ASU's Arizona Meteorite Display
Hi Jim and all, The February 2010 Meteorite Magazine has my ASU article in it with pictures of a number of the specimens in the collection. I'd recommend you check that out if you subscribe to Meteorite Magazine. If not you can buy a back issue from them. The interesting thing about the ASU Collection is that it is a good portion of the Nininger Collection that was sold to them by the Niningers. Harvey Nininger felt a decent collection was needed out west for people to visit and was reasonably close to the Meteor Crater (same state). Researchers have the opportunity to visit both sites without having to travel across the county. Carleton Moore was the first curator of the collection before he retired. He is still important to assisting with the collection. Carleton built the collection up by adding the Foote Collection later on and adding to it by trades over the many years he took care of it, making it one of the largest collections in the world. He also did the first serious modern research on the collection adding no doubt to our understanding of meteorites and our solar system. Anyone thanking about visiting the collection should do so. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Jim Wooddell" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 11:16 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] ASU's Arizona Meteorite Display Good morning List! I was playing the game, Name That Meteorite, and was doing some research on Arizona meteorites. I came across some pictures of the Center For Meteorite Studies Arizona Meteorite display and it appeared be missing a lot of Az meteorites. I do not know how old these pictures were that I found. Does anyone have any recent pictures of this Display? If so, I'd sure appreciate seeing them. Thank you! Jim Wooddell __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bigfoot and the "Nakhla Dog" - what do they havein common?
Mike, You posted twice on a subject that doesn't belong on this list. I am sure there are people on the list who are biting their tongues right now. Everyone has a right to believe what they want to and that includes you but when you put such posts on a list dedicated to meteorites you are just asking for someone to defend their believes by your post. I am sure there are other people here who have a different belief system than you. I didn't post anything to the list the first time, but time to call you out on this. Keep your anit-religious believes off this forum and just talk meteorites and meteorite related topics so we don't get into a can of worms here. Thank you. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: "Becky and Kirk" Cc: Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bigfoot and the "Nakhla Dog" - what do they havein common? All of the remaining bigfoots were raptured on saturday - they will never be found now. Also, sales of all bigfoot-related material is hereby suspended until further notice. ;) Best regards, MikeG -- - Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Meteorites & Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/pages/Galactic-Stone-Ironworks/218849894809686 News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - On 5/22/11, Becky and Kirk wrote: I indeed have heard stories about Semi-drivers who HAVE occasionally hit a Sasquatch in the Pacific Northwest. The one particular tale I heard 2nd-hand was from man who talked to a driver who said he hit & killed one in Colorado many years ago. He said he was detained for a bit by a special group of police, while another group cleaned his truck of all evidence of his "fatal encounter" with Bigfoot. Who knows?? Kirk.:-) - Original Message - From: "Kevin Kichinka" To: Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 6:33 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Bigfoot and the "Nakhla Dog" - what do they havein common? Team Meteorite: While I am pursuing other projects now and can't take the time to again pursue/review or explain my peer-reviewed and published "thesis" (see David Weir "Meteorite Studies" and Nakhla) that absolves the Nakhla meteorite of "dogocide", one argument that was made in support of this crime against canines was that I "couldn't prove it DIDN'T HAPPEN." Never mind that no one recovered a bloody meteorite or a dead dog allegedly killed on the wrong day at the wrong place. Science and logic are brothers in arms. My brief, college-time exposure to "debate" (as a competition), taught me that if one argued this double negative, "by rule" you lost the debate. Something about being logical... Just for fun, I bring this up as I read on Yahoo about the world's "Top Ten unexplained things". Here's a quote from the article, please pay special attention to the last sentence: "For decades, large, hairy, manlike beasts called Bigfoot have occasionally been reported by eyewitnesses across America. Despite the thousands of Bigfoot that must exist for a breeding population, not a single body has been found. Not one has been killed by a hunter, struck dead by a speeding car, or even died of natural causes. In the absence of hard evidence like teeth or bones, support comes down to eyewitness sightings and ambiguous photos and films. Since it is logically impossible to prove a universal negative, science will never be able to prove that creatures like Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster do not exist, and it is possible that these mysterious beasts lurk far from prying eyes." Very, very far indeed. Long live the Nakhla Dog. Thanks to all who sent me birthday greetings this week! Kevin Kichinka Tambor de Alajuela, Costa Rica www.theartofcollectingmeteorites.com www.LaQ-CostaRica.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bigfoot and the "Nakhla Dog" - what do they havein common?
Eric, Since your a new comer to the meteorite business and this list, I'll explain this to you one time. First, the list has always been self policing. In the old days I believe it was a bit more so. When we had people like you did, scold scollars who's input on the list was well respected, list members wouldn't mince words with them. I've noticed that you like to challenge people when ever they don't post something to your liking but yet you have the arrogance to challenge me for the same. It boils down to two things. First respect for the people who might have different views than Mike's and second, keeping the posts more on topic as the list rules state. I personally like to see people of all walks of life be on this list. I respect Mike for the most part but any political or religious comments don't belong on a list that is _suppose_ to be about meteorites. While I agree with a number of things Mike said, posting such comments just fuel the fire for others who have different beliefs and can start and off topic fight like this one. If Mike is allowed to post off topic on a senstive area then there is no reason that I can't call him on it as I felt it was out of place here. While you and Mike are being insenstive about others believes (and again this is all off topic) and don' t see harm, I have received a number of emails thanking me for my post. Go back to stiffing people on your magazine sales and telling scollars to poliltely shut up. I'd like to start and off topic post to see how many people are still waiting on you to send them their printed magazine they paid for. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Eric Wichman" To: Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 5:07 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bigfoot and the "Nakhla Dog" - what do they havein common? LOL Now now boys... Calm down. Al... I'll try to be as nice as possible. Can I see your Met-List Police badge? Who are you to call people out for making an off topic joke? Lighten up man. You're jumping all over Mike for expressing his opinion and making a joke. Since you have the power to call people out, I guess I do too right, as does every other person on this email list. Unless you feel like you're above reproach. What if I call you out for trying to make Mike to feel like crap for making a joke about the Rapture? It was worldwide news, was on everyone's minds, and I thought is was clever of Mike to bring Bigfoot into it. That's ok. It wasn't insulting at all. Mike, Good for you for keeping an open mind. (you need not apologize for your opinions). By the way that Bigfoot Rapture joke was f***ing hilarious! Regards, Eric __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bigfoot and the "Nakhla Dog"
Sorry list last post on this topic for me, How long does one have to be in the meteorite world before they're no longer considered a newcomer (noob) by you< I'd say when you grow up and learn to respect other people's view points. Not off topic posts. Also keeping your noise out of business that isn't yours in the first place. Your not the authority here as you have tried to appoint yourself and I'll post as I see fit. You are accusing me of being arrogant? That's funny.< Yes, your are very arrogant. Your need to try to show me up for a simple request to respect other peoples believe systems. I feel this is a place for everyone except for those who try to use it to their own benefits without regards to others. Your one guy who simply can't keep your fat mouth shut when you want to control what someone else is pointing out is wrong. Well eric you can't do that with me. Now for another petty shot at your magazine (your standards). Truthfully, how many people have or haven't (more have than have not)< received the magazine is none of your concern< What a joke eric, you admit you aren't providing copies to people who have them coming in the above statement. I think fraud concerns everyone on this list when there are questionable dealings. I saw a number of posts stating that after paying for their magazines you had not shipped them for months. A number had not even received their copies. That is what they said. Not me. I just got a couple of emails saying they still have not received their copies yet. That should concern everyone on this list if you are still not providing something that has been paid for I would suggest that if someone has not received their copy, and if the magazine is sent in the mail, and if you paid for your copies in the mail, to file a complaint with your post office, as they are always interested in fly by night outfits using the mail for questionable means. Aren't you also being a hypocrite by complaining about Mike's post being < off topic, then slamming me publicly with something completely < irrelevant to the topic at hand simply to save face < Mike's comments were off topic to the theme of this list. The issues about your magazine while not related to the original post were warranted, as soon as you tried to control my simple post. Going back over your posts, I see you do this. I feel there are a lot of people wanting this brought up so why not here since you seem to think you are so much better than the rest of us eric. I'm sure you don't want me to respond to this publicly but since you asked for it here it is. Your right I have not cared for the way you have handled yourself on the list. Tried to pull people off here to your site. You are a control freak. You think you can shut people up by posting private messages. You remind me of a spoiled little brat that will do what ever they can to get their way. I usually don't send an email unless I mean it. I have been quite honest while you are trying to sweep the issues of your magazine away and call me dishonest. It is you who are not being honest with people who have paid you money for your magazine and I think that speak volumes. I am sure you will try to use every word against me as an attempt to control as you always do. Be advised that I will hold you to things you say or put in my mouth on this list. I deleted the posts to save bandwidth and people can easily go and read the thread post by post. They don't have to do that in our posts but forgot you are trying to control again when nothing disingenuous was meant by that at all and can't see that it was a big deal. I often clean up long threads and address the post I am responding to. We don't need the thread repeated with every response to a post. Go back to the archive and you will see that I do this. Perhaps you are trying to smokescreen the real issues here. Enough of this nonsense. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Eric Witchman" To: "al mitt" Cc: Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bigfoot and the "Nakhla Dog" - what do they have in common?) (sorry list for the harshness of this email, but this has been a long time coming) Hi Al, Thank you for pointing out I'm a newbie in this arena. Technically, I'm not a newbie anymore, at least I thought I wasn't since I've been doing this 24/7/365 for 4 years and have spent more than 15,000 hours researching and studying meteorites and astronomy, have more than 100,000 visitors to my websites per year and over 1250 online subscribers to my Meteorite Hunting & Collecting Magazine. But I am curious though. How long does one have to be in the meteorite world before they're no longer considered a newcomer (noob) b
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite 20 Questions - Answer and Share if youDare. :)
Greetings, Mike and all, 14) Statistics have caught up with someone. Anne Hodges will no longer be the only documented person to be struck by a falling meteorite. Assuming the next person struck could be anyone and you could pick that person, who would it be? (silly answers only, nothing mean or political) The Mbale fall, struck a boy in the head (small stone and no injury) and that is documented and there are a few others. Maybe Michael Blood or someone else could offer other examples. I can' think of any at the time being. Best! --AL Mitterling So Anne Hodges isn't the only person who has been stuck. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite 20 Questions - Answer and Share if youDare. :)
Greetings, This looks fun so here are my answers. --AL Mitterling 1) When did you start collecting? (how long ago) Officially 1986/7 but first purchase of meteoritic material was in 1966 2) What first interested you about meteorites? Going to Meteor(ite) Crater in the 1960's and seeing their display as well as going to the Field Museum in Chicago and looking at specimens. 3) What was your first meteorite purchase, and from whom? Canyon Diablo from Meteor(ite) Crater 4) How many meteorites or localities do you currently have in your collection? Well over 350 unique locations. 5) If you had to know for insurance purposes, what do you value your entire collection at? - in dollars - ballpark figure OK, or just say "none of your business". Can't comment on this. 6) What is your favorite meteorite and why? I have many but one is a 7 gram full lunar slice. Growing up during the Apollo era and seeing a lunar specimen brought back from the Moon, I always hoping that some would come on the market and with the Lunar Meteorite finds that dream came true and I have a number of nice Lunar Specimens now. 7) Have you ever found a meteorite in the field? Several but no cold finds. I have hunted Holbrook with some success, Odessa and Park Forest. 8) Did you ever get the deal of a lifetime on a meteorite? If so, what was it? I've purchase a number of great lifetime specimens. One was a Camel Donga 600 gram whole. 9) Did you ever go through the ordeal of a lifetime to obtain a meteorite? If so, please explain. Yes, but that is just dealing. Many of my Indiana specimens are just that, including a full slice of Noblesville, Indiana a 20 gram, one if not the only one of the full slices left. Same with my Lafayette, Indiana Martian Specimen. 10) Have you ever consumed meteoritic material? (If so, how or under what circumstances?) No, I think that is sort of silly, I have rescued some from that fate and have sold them. Probably everyone eats microscopic material that settles down on crops or gardens. 11) Does your spouse share your meteorite passion, is ambivalent towards it, or resents it? She is reasonably interested in my collection pieces and often hangs around when I am finishing specimens for others or myself that don't look good and then likes to see the transformation after I am finished. She see my yearly sales so doesn't complain. A few purchases have made her eyebrows rise a little, especially the 5 figure ones. 12) Have you ever let a bill go unpaid or late to buy a meteorite? Delayed payment but only a week or 10 days. 13) A perfectly oriented, fully crusted, baseball-sized, lunar meteorite crashes through your roof and lands in your lap while you are reading this. It's the most gorgeous aesthetically-superior specimen you have ever seen - like Lafayette, but better. It legally belongs to you. What do you do with it? Keep it of course but share it with others. (I saw someone else say they would cut it in half that is meteorite sac-religious!!!) I would permit a core to be taken and studied for classification. I'd send it to Alan Rubin! Waitthere is some noise.ouch!!!#$%%@ a lunar just crashed through my roof If you believe that I've got a bridge I'll sell you. 14) Statistics have caught up with someone. Anne Hodges will no longer be the only documented person to be struck by a falling meteorite. Assuming the next person struck could be anyone and you could pick that person, who would it be? (silly answers only, nothing mean or political) The Mbale fall struck a boy in the strewn field (see Sky and Telescope) Hummm.anyonethere is a few people on the...never mind. 15) You are awarded the honor of selecting one specimen to keep from any meteorite collection in the world. What would it be? That's a hard one to answer but I think the Springwater that Nininger found from ASU would be my first choice but I have many. 16) Have you ever sold or donated your entire collection, and then had to rebuild it? No, but I donate specimens to various places and people like teachers. I have brokered collections that collectors wanted to go to a museum. 17) Summarize what you think about tektites in one sentence. Mysterious interesting differentiated glassy objects that are probably a result of terrestrial impact. 18) Which do you prefer - thin sections, whole specimens, slices, or end cuts? By thin sections are you referring to slides?? I collect whole specimens, slices of same and if possible a thin section slide of same. (thank you Bernd for getting me started. :-) 19) Do you collect meteor wrongs? Yes, since I have many people send in items to me all the time, the ones I don't send back or throw out on the big pile out back, I keep to show people what various meteor wrongs look like. 20) Have you ever dropped a tiny crumb of a rare meteorite and lost it?
Re: [meteorite-list] The most expensive meteorite per gram?
Hi Steve and all, Lafayette is truly a rare specimen. Only 30 grams total in private hands. I recently cut some of this material and still have small fragments that broke off from what I was cutting. After I sell what little I have left, it will be gone and nearly impossible to buy. Anne, If you pair up the lunar and martian meteorites, you will only find 60 plus specimens that are unique of the lunar material and 80 plus of the martian. These should sell well for you but in this speck collecting society after collectors get their type specimen that is all they need. Better to have a gram or two. Alex, Your exactly right on the lunars, over $35,000 to $40,000 for the first material out. Blaine sold both DAG 262 and 400. I bought in with him on some of that material and still have a pricy DAG 262 .1 th of a gram in my collection that is a $3,000 piece. However at that time we had no idea that other lunars would be found and we thought the material might be the only material we might ever be able to own. I now have a fairly cost effective 7 gram lunar in my collection. Besides the lack of type pieces as you pointed out (and was very true of that time) little information on meteorites, few books, and contact was done the old fashion way by mail for pieces, with occasional calls to dealers to purchase specimens. Collectors these days have it much more easier with the internet and ready access of material, books, and specimens. (getting off my soap box now) :-) --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Steve Schoner" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The most expensive meteorite per gram? How about Lafayette? That is a rare one, impossible to obtain. I have a .87 gram piece: http://meteorite-identification.tripod.com/LAFAYETTE.htm Told it is worth about $10,000... Any takers? Steve Schoner __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] STOLEN meteorites - from Allen Shaw
Hi Mike and all, The Meteorite.com site, specifically at the Meteorite Times spot, has a lost and stolen page for people to view. I think it is always a good idea to announce it here and post it on the Meteorite.com site. Here is the link: http://www.meteorite.com/missing_stolen.html or you can email them here to let them know if something is missing: i...@meteorite.com I think keeping one site for missing and lost meteorites if more effective than say 20 sites where collectors or dealers might miss information. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: Cc: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] STOLEN meteorites - from Allen Shaw Hi Anne, Does the IMCA keep a centralized listing of stolen material for the public to keep watch for? Best regards, MikeG __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] For the record - I do not buy unsolicitedmeteorites from unknown sellers
Hi Mike and all, The problem we have today in collecting is the few dishonest collectors/dealers who purposely sell items they know aren't the real McCoy. It gets sold to Tom, or Steve and they sell it or trade it and it ends up in another collection and then maybe a few years later, they trade for a larger specimen and so the fraud piece then ends up in someone else's collection, maybe a nice person who would never do anything wrong but not knowing they have a NWA and not some historical piece they thought they bought. I too buy from reliable sources (always have and always will) or have got my material from museum trades and so forth. I think with the unreasonable perception of meteorite value, we're going to have a lot of bad items floating around with people trying to sell them. There are some less than experienced new collectors out there that buy in good faith. Most deals are solid but if they don't know who the bad guys are then they may buy material that is misrepresented. Buy from dealers who have been around for a while or an IMCA dealer. Do some research on the meteorite list in the search archives spot. Type in misrepresented meteorite, fraud, arrrest, judgement or something like Caveat Emptor. You'll find out some useful information. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 4:20 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] For the record - I do not buy unsolicitedmeteorites from unknown sellers Hi List and Lurkers, For the record, let me clearly state - I do NOT buy meteorites from strangers. I don't care how you found it, where you found it, or what other people told you about it. I'm not interested. Over the last week I have received no less than 20 emails (most copy pasted to several other dealers) from people with strange specimens that are obviously not meteorites. I am not trying to be unfriendly or harsh here, but please take 10 minutes to surf the web and read up on the basics of meteorites. A few simple Google searches will tell you that your vesicle-covered lava rock is not a meteorite. A simple streak test will reveal that your specimen is hematite or magnetite. If a person is not willing to do a small amount of homework before bombarding me with multiple spam offers, then don't expect a reply from me. I just don't have the time or inclination to carry on a discussion with every person who finds a weird rock. I've tried many times over the years to give thoughtful and helpful advice to people who send me these emails and the majority of these people ignore what I say and then contact several other dealers in the hopes that someone will buy their story and rock. If a person doesn't trust my assessment of their specimen, then why contact me in the first place?..it's because they didn't do their homework on me either. I am a small potatoes dealer - even if your weird specimen turns out to be a rare meteorite, I cannot afford to buy it, unless it's offered for less than $100 with free shipping, regardless of size - this also goes for basketball-sized lunars that have been verified by a MS-approved lab. I'm just not in the market to buy such meteorites. I have a handful of trusted sources that I get my material from. These sources are reliable with spotless reputations and I have a long history of doing business with them. If I am going to buy a meteorite from anyone, it's going to be one of my regular sources - not some guy in Laos, a prison guard, or anyone else who is not a MS or IMCA member. To anyone reading this who has found a possible meteorite - go to these websites and do your homework before contacting a meteorite dealer : http://meteorite-identification.com/index.htm http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/meteorwrongs.htm http://meteorites.wustl.edu/realities.htm http://meteorites.wustl.edu/what_to_do.htm http://www.meteoritemarket.com/metid1.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorite If after reading these links, you still think you have a meteorite, please contact anyone else but me - unless I win the lottery and later retract this statement. LOL Best regards, MikeG __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] STOLEN meteorites - from Allen Shaw
Hi Scott and all, There are quite a few good dealers who are not IMCA members. In fact some of the larger, most successful dealers are not. So don't cut yourself off from those long time decent dealers. I'd be glad to compose a list for you. I belonged at first but decided not to renew when they became official with dues and so forth. I believe as a newer person collecting meteorites it would be a better choice for your protection. Anne has encouraged me to join again and I probably should. Don't know if I could find two people to recommend me though :-) Perhaps we should have a remaining group of dealers that have some sort of stamp of approval and self governing but then in the beginning that is how things worked. Since we now seem to get a new dealer of meteorites about every month or two, not everyone knows everyone else like in the good old days. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites Mitterling.com - Original Message - From: "Scott Schulz" To: Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] STOLEN meteorites - from Allen Shaw On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Barry Hughes wrote: I am in the crazy newcomer mode of buying. My wife found a slice in a small box in the garbage yesterday, because she wanted the box for Christmas gifts. I had thrown it away. I am relieved to hear that there are others out there with "crazy newcomer" disease. I caught it about a week ago, and it has hit hard. On the other hand, it is sad to see that even this hobby has it's share of dishonorable folks. Sad. But I am glad to see that there exists an organization like the IMCA. I know that logo is the first thing I look for once an auction/sale notice catches my eye. SwS __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] vaca muerta euc- what is it?
Hi Mckinney, It's been suggested that mesosiderites are the result of a collision of a parent body containing eucrite material and core material. The result is a melting of the material and forming the nearly equal parts of metal to silicate. There is a lot that is not understood yet about this class, but it is thought it could have impacted when the core of a asteroid was still molten with material from the eucrite parent body. Because of this it is possible that some of the material was melted (as in your Vaca sample) into a glassy material. I believe there is an absence of olivine in mesosiderites. McSween book is a good source for chemical makeup of various types of meteorites. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "mckinney trammell" To: Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 9:21 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] vaca muerta euc- what is it? i have several pieces of vaca muerta "eucrite". it is not like any of the other euc (soft, granite appearance, white). this is very hard , has a "compressed granular" textue and is homogenous- all one type of mineral. it is glass/ olivine -like and take a very hi polish. what is this mineral? why is it called a "Eucrite" since it does not resemble any of the other ones out there? are there other "eucrites" made of this material? if so got pix? any info or additional other pix of this or other eucrites made of this material appreciated. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] I have a problem with some rusting meteorites
Hi Mike and all, Don't know where you read to have bright lights but having those can cause specimens to bleach out over time. Especially if you use fluorescent lighting. Part of collecting is keeping a watch over specimens and treating them before they become a big problem. Easier to deal with a little superficial oxidation. As one commenter said, keeping oxygen from specimens is important as well as keeping humidity from your specimens. Buying specimens that are not so rust prone if you live in a humid environment is also a good idea. Admire has always been an extremely bad ruster as well as about half of the pallasites. Imilac, Esquel, Seymachan, and Albin have always been very stable. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites and Lab - Original Message - From: "Mike Hankey" To: "Tim Heitz" Cc: Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] I have a problem with some rusting meteorites Tim, Funny I was going to ask the same exact question today. One of the things I read online was having bright/warm lights in the case where you keep your meteorites. Any other ideas out there? Thanks, Mike __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] I have a problem with some rusting meteorites
Hi Jessica, Muonionalusta tends to rust around the natural outside edges where it was exposed to the weather before it was sliced. In my experience it won't rust in the interior of the slice even if you don't treat the outside edges. If you do treat the outside edges where it rusts, you need to keep it very dry and with desiccant. Be sure your desiccant isn't part of the problem as it will absorb moisture and then contaminate the specimen when it is saturated. Also avoid touching specimens to blue colored desiccant that change when spent. One thing that I have not seen mentioned here, keep meteorites at a uniform temperature. Variations in the room or sunlight hitting specimens or cases will cause a minor amount of condensation and ultimately rust. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites and Lab - Original Message - From: "power ofunity" To: "Tim Heitz" ; Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] I have a problem with some rusting meteorites I have heard Admire is notorious for this...but I am no expert. I second Tim's request for information. I also have a nice slice of Muonionalusta, that I purchased from a list member, that is showing signs of rust around the edges. This piece is not displayed, and is kept in "air-tight" plastic container with dessicant, yet still is showing the tell-tale signs. Any suggestions for removing and/or preventing rust without damaging or altering the specimen would be greatly appreciated by many on the list. Thanks, Jessica - Original Message From: Tim Heitz To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, October 25, 2010 5:04:47 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] I have a problem with some rusting meteorites Hello List Members, I was hoping someone could help me with this one. I have 2 pallasites that are starting to show signs of rusting, an Admire and Fukang. Can someone please tell me what I can do to stop the rusting. Is there a way to clean them up and seal it against any further rusting. I willing to try anything new that might work. Any ideas? I live in St.Louis, its very humid here, I know this might be hard to stop. Tim Heitz MIDWEST METEORITES http://www.meteorman.org 314-596-1435 Member IMCA-4781 International Meteorite Collectors Association __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Pros at Work II
Hi Martin and all, They can record the falls but no one is allowed to collect material unless it falls on private ground ;-) Then no export. Wonder how large the stations are in Australia?? Are they owned or do they rent the gound for the ranches from the government? --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Martin Altmann" To: Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pros at Work II Hi MikeG, Yah certainly, I was not so sure about the objectives of that project. I mean, could have been also to photograph meteors, hence observation only, but I checked the goals the Aussie network gave in the description of the project, where they successfully applied for 300,000GBP from the STFC for the maintainance of the stations and the recovery for the next 3 years (roughly 10,000$/month). (No worries, they have other grants too. I'm too lazy to check the other grants, someone from European net said, they got 1.5 million Euro from EU too - peanuts anyway.). And there is told, that indeed they want to recover meteorites by means of the stations. Quote: "This technique has been employed a number of times over the last 50 years, all in temperate regions of the northern hemisphere, but although hundreds meteorite falls have been observed, only four were recovered. The poor success rate is down to the difficulty in recovering a small rock in an area of several square kilometres when there is significant undergrowth. Our solution was rather simple. Over the last few decades, tens of thousands of meteorites have been found in the world's deserts. Put a fireball network in a desert and it should be much easier samples. We have designed a fireball observatory that can operate automatically in the harsh environment of the Australian desert. Based on previous fieldwork in this area, looking for old weathered meteorites, we should have about a 70% chance of finding meteorites that we see land." So I was only thinking, what could help, to meet their goals and their predictions better. (Now they're still at 14% recovery rate and not at 70%, as they supposed they will achieve.) Especially, when they say on their homepage, that they can't go searching more often, because it's so expensive. Hence only for that project. To find fresh falls - as you know, Australia implemented the 1970ies UNESCO convention - commendation of the working group on meteorites of UNESCO was for fresh falls: Go and get it ASAP! - it's no good to let a fall first one or two years in desert before you search it. And to connect the finds with orbits calculated from the fireball tracks. Of course you're right else, Mike: "Over the last few decades, tens of thousands of meteorites have been found in the world's deserts." Yes in the world's deserts - though they could have added also: "but only in the Australian deserts not." Naturally, if you forbid the hunt or if you take any incentive for the people to search, you won't have meteorites. If it would be about meteorites only, the Aussies would simply have to liberate the hunting/ownership/export practice, maybe could introduce a split solution, and of course then the new finds would flow in to Perth and to the other institutes, for free (and of course at much lower costs, even when they would be partially purchased.) That really everyone knows. I guess Bevan & Crew as well as you and me and any meteoricist too. But here I was thinking, that if you build up such a great project, you shouldn't stop just exactly before the last step! And we don't want, that in the end, the Australian network will have the same fate like the Prairie network. I think, they have to search more often or with more personnel - and if that is too expensive, they should find a solution, that others, who naturally are used to hunt more intensively and under more spartan conditions and who are simply the better hunters, could help them. In the deserts of Sahara, Oman, USA it works. Bt as told, Definitely not our cup of tea, we're no Aussies, nor are we scientists. Best! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Tom foolery and loosing valued members
Hi Michael and all, Those were my thoughts also. Ten years ago and frankly up to about two or three years ago there seem to be a lot more problems on the list. The list has changed for the better, except a few times when things get out of hand. If people (and I need to include myself) could wait a day before posting something when they are mad and re-read the reply, then alter or not send the message if it doesn't have value we might be all the better for it. I have often thought if we as a community can't get along with simular interests and passion, then the rest of the world is doomed for sure. I have been trying to keep to the subject myself and think this is good advise but it is easy for threads to drift off sometimes. I agree a big thanks goes out to Art our administrator on this list. Best to everyone, including the late risers who ate too much yesterday! --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites - Original Message - From: "Michael Blood" To: "Ruben Garcia" ; "Met. Paul & Janice Harris" Cc: "Meteorite List" Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tom foolery and loosing valued members Hi Ruben and all, Good input. However, there are other factors to consider: The list was MUCH more conflicted 10 years ago (can you imagine It is actually LESS conflicted now?) We had Michal Casper (oh, what Fun he was), Michael Farmer periodically going "mad dog" and A several others that have been permanently removed for attacks And/or obscenity. Can you IMAGINE what it would be like if it all went back to that? It is too bad when people drift off course and 80 others jump into The fray debating tangential issues ad infinitum. I agree. However, It truly is better than 10 years ago. It is a shame when old members opt out. I, for one, have learned Not to follow threads of little interest; which leads me to a request I Have made in the past, the violation of which I think is quite rude and very common: CHANGE THE TITLE IN THE SUBJECT BOX WHEN A THREAD CHANGES. This one element alone would allow everyone Not interested in a given topic to skip ALL posts with the subject box As is - however, I find I HAVE to check every few postings regardless Of the subject box topic, as people (most - not a few, but most people) Do NOT change the subject box when they change the subject! Please, please do so for the sake of the list members who will NOT read Your post if your post has a subject in the box with which they feel saturated. That said, we all owe a tribute to Art for maintaining an even keel and allowing as much freedom as possible while not letting things get (and stay) hard core funky. Here's to Art! Thanks, Michael __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] List of known Rusters?
Hi Ed and all, This has been discussed before and I believe the consensus was that WD40 can have moisture in it that will promote rust. It depends on the batch but there is varying degrees of water contained in this lubricant. It might not be so good for Nantans but more stable irons like Gibeon would probably be fine. A good grade gun oil like Birchwood brand, Barricade seems to do better in my experience but smells a bit. Bottom line here, Nantans are often unstable and may have been weathered to the point you'll never be very successful at drying them out. These are notorious rusters. I like very much your idea of a list of meteorites that are problems specimens. Perhaps we could develop a rating system (1 to 10), (stable, mostly stable, partly stable, unstable, extremely unstable) or something similar and a listing of specimens. Even the metal in ordinary chondrites can rust. An example is Ghubara, Omen. About half of the pallasites out there are problem specimens, and a number of irons are. Best! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Ed Majden" To: Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 12:28 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] List of known Rusters? Does anyone have a list of known Iron meteorite rusters? The sample of Nantan China I have split into several pieces. I have been using WD40 on the pieces to retard further problems but this does not work all that well. Have to repeat this every few weeks! Ed Majden Courtenay B.C. Asteroid Majden 142368 (Thanks to Rob Matson) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Warning about ebay member
Greetings Mirko and all, I'd like to suggest something different about this bidder and others that I have had to deal with. It is my belief that some bidders will bid and wait to see if you will ship the item to them so they can get something for free. It's why he is bidding on so many items in hopes of someone sending the item on. I also had someone bid on my item and wouldn't pay for it until I shipped it to them. I told them it was not my policy of doing this unless you are a long time customer. This was before eBay fixed the feedback system for only bidders to give bad feedback, limiting what a seller could do. After a fair amount of time passed, I left negative feedback and promptly got negative feedback (that was fair wasn't it) from this scum bidder. I really despise eBay these days and because of another problem I have had with them have not listed items this holiday season. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Mirko Graul" To: Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 1:40 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Warning about ebay member Dear list members, I would warn any ebay seller against a very unpleasant ebay member. The ebay member ( tri-ball34 ) has won some meteorites with me on ebay and to this day not one of them paid. The total value of almost $ 1500. He had bought over a longer period of time. Now I've talked with some other dealers and it looks as if many traders are concerned. Are there any other dealers who have not received payment from him ?? I have blocked this member now. Many greetings to all, Mirko Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_gr...@yahoo.de WEB: www.meteorite-mirko.de Member of The Meteoritical Society (International Society for Meteoritics and Planetery Science) IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Question about lost shipment and what to do.
Greetings Mike and all, I had something similar happen with the Post Office one time. It ended up going to the "hub" in Pennsylvania (from Indiana). You first have to let them know it is not moving or possibly lost. They make a note of it but will tell you that you have to wait a couple of weeks. I did so and went back (different person) and they gave me the same story that I would have to wait. I asked to see the supervisor, she told me I would have to wait a couple of weeks (consistant aren't they). I told her that I had and had waited three weeks prior to that so it had been over five weeks and it still showed being at the hub. This got her attention and I believe she made some phone calls. Mysteriously the package started to move a day or two later and the package finally was received. I had used insurance so they were a bit more worried about it. Insurance costs about $1 per hundred last I looked. I would bet with the holiday traffic, it has been sitting behind other packages and hasn't been looked at. If you put in a formal lost in the mail then wait a bit longer you can then get them to start making phone calls. Of course it could always be stolen. Best not to advertise what you have in the box. Just say rock sample. I wish you good luck and hope that things work out well for you. If not you have to chalk it up as a lost and let your business absorb it. Hope this helps. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites - Original Message - From: "Mike Miller" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 11:18 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Question about lost shipment and what to do. Hi all, I shipped a priority flat rate box on Dec 6th and it was scanned and left the Las Vegas sort facility on the same evening. Now ever since it has just said it was in transit to its destination. I did use a signature confirmation. The bad news is it is a meteorite that I sold for several thousand dollars...I know but it is too late to register and insure the package. I am hoping there is some one who investigates something like this because I don't think the item was lost it was in a flat rate box, hard to miss that lying on the floor. So if it is gone then I am guessing someone has stolen it. Input would be helpfuland I guess the moral of the story is shipped expensive items insured and registered, they can go missig even from state to state. -- Mike Miller 3835 E Nicole Ave Kingman Az 86409 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-757-1378 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Warning about ebay member
Hi Tom and all, Your one of those buyers that I would have no problem sending the item on before I recieved payment, though you usually pay so fast I don't have time to do that. Good trusted buyers no problem. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone! Hope your holidays are filled with joy. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites - Original Message - From: "Tom Randall (KB2SMS)" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 8:09 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Warning about ebay member Hi folks and Happy Holidays, I would suggest not sending any items until payment is received. I occasionally buy from some of you folks on ebay, don't let some scumbag ruin it for you or the legitimate collectors. Report these fraud buyers and block them and spread the word about them. No money, not item. If they don't like it tell them to go elsewhere. Regards, Tom __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September 14, 2009
- Original Message - From: "Steve Dunklee" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:32 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September 14, 2009 charred wood? I have seen black staining around steel jacketed bullets that looks like charred wood, if they have been in the tree for several years. But fresh bullet holes even from 22-250 bullets at 4000 fps are clean without charring. I thought meteorites were cold on impact? can anyone explain charring from a 70 gram object that impacted at less than 300 fps? at 200 fps it would have bounced off the tree and at 350fps torn it in half. Its still a very cool looking example of a meteorite. Cheers Steve --- On Sun, 9/13/09, spacerocks...@aol.com wrote: From: spacerocks...@aol.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 14, 2009 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 10:04 PM http://www.sikhote-alin.org/September_14_2009.html __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September 14, 2009
Hi Steve and all, Opps didn't get my message in last post. Not sure how fast the Sikhote fall came in at but it was a very low altitude breakup and probably had quite a lot of it's cosmic velocity at impact so the meteorites may have impacted at a fairly high velocity. I am sure that someone has some statistics based on the fall which left over 120 impact craters. Some of these _may_ have been pretty warm and might have charred trees due to the friction of embedding themselves. Seems like they would have done more damage as you suggested though so maybe there are some other factors (dynamics) to consider. Best! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Steve Dunklee" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:32 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September 14, 2009 charred wood? I have seen black staining around steel jacketed bullets that looks like charred wood, if they have been in the tree for several years. But fresh bullet holes even from 22-250 bullets at 4000 fps are clean without charring. I thought meteorites were cold on impact? can anyone explain charring from a 70 gram object that impacted at less than 300 fps? at 200 fps it would have bounced off the tree and at 350fps torn it in half. Its still a very cool looking example of a meteorite. Cheers Steve __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September 14, 2009
Hi Steve and all, Not sure how fast the Sikhote fall came in at but it was a very low altitude breakup and probably had quite a lot of it's cosmic velocity at impact so the meteorites may have impacted at a fairly high velocity. I am sure that someone has some statistics based on the fall which left over 120 impact craters. Some of these _may_ have been pretty warm and might have charred trees due to the friction of embedding themselves. Seems like they would have done more damage as you suggested though so maybe there are some other factors (dynamics) to consider. Best! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Steve Dunklee" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:32 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September 14, 2009 charred wood? I have seen black staining around steel jacketed bullets that looks like charred wood, if they have been in the tree for several years. But fresh bullet holes even from 22-250 bullets at 4000 fps are clean without charring. I thought meteorites were cold on impact? can anyone explain charring from a 70 gram object that impacted at less than 300 fps? at 200 fps it would have bounced off the tree and at 350fps torn it in half. Its still a very cool looking example of a meteorite. Cheers Steve __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
Greetings all, With the winds blowing dust in Australia, it would seem that some unfound meteorites may be uncovered. Of course some specimens may be covered over or deeper but seems like a good time to go out and hunt or rehunt areas of known meteorite strewnfields. Best! --AL Mitterling __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ash Creek the most expensive or dinary chondrite?
Hi Melanie and all, Noblesville, Indiana is priced around $125 to $200 if you can find it. Sold for that when it came on the market about ten years ago. Low total weight usually makes a find or fall higher price. Watch out for the frauds putting look alike Ash Creek on eBay. Best! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Melanie Matthews" To: Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 6:15 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Ash Creek the most expensive ordinary chondrite? Could Ash Creek/West Texas be the most expensive ordinary chondrite on the meteorite market (or one of the most expensive)? They seem to cost way more than Buzzard Coulees.. Sure it is still a pretty resent observed fall, but I get blown away by the prices per gram... Is it also because of its somewhat 'marbled' matrix? Guess it would be some time before I could obtain a decent specimen.. :D --- Melanie IMCA: 2975 eBay: metmel2775 Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ash Creek the most expensive ordinary chondrite??
Hi Melanie, About a year back there was someone selling other meteorites as historic ones. Don't know if they were NWA or not. I do know there were several meteorites that had very questionable providence. When sources of the material were asked if trades with this individual were made (where the seller had claimed to traded from) they indicated they had NOT traded with them or for any of the material in question. There has also been another long time meteorite dealer who has questionable dealings and has what I would say is questionable feedback in the MetBull. Sad that some people, big collectors think this person is worthy of buying from. You can do a search in the Meteorite Central archives for this information to get names. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Melanie Matthews" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 2:27 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ash Creek the most expensive ordinary chondrite?? Hello list. Thank you all for your input! I've been thinking have there been accounts of people selling NWA material and passing them off as rare/historic or recent falls? --- Melanie IMCA: 2975 eBay: metmel2775 Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ash Creek the most expensive or dinary chondrite?
Hi Greg and all, While I think there are a lot of good points on why this meteorite was expensive, I think there is another factor in all this as well. The more people, meteorite hunters, collectors and so on that descend on a fall, the more expenses that have to be added into the cost. If you only have 50lbs (22.7 kilos) of material (for example) and fifty hunters, the cost for travel, motel, time and effort and payment to land owners will make that fall higher in price. If only a half dozen hunters search the area then the price would be substantially less. This assumes that they all find an average amount of material. I realize there is no way of knowing for certain how much material survived passage or can be found but seems if every meteorite hunter in a two thousand mile radius heads out and there are more hunters than material we're in for an expensive fall. I've heard some comments about fewer searchers then better chance of hunters price fixing but I don't think this would happen in most cases. I believe in the credibility of most hunters and collectors. As I have said many times before, ultimately it is what someone is willing to pay for an item that will dictate the price of material. Usually about a year after the fall is the best priced material. Well my two grams worth. All my best! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Greg Stanley" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ash Creek the most expensive ordinary chondrite? All: I think the reason Ash Creek has a higher value is because of the publicity. It was major news among the meteorite community; even outside the meteorite community. Also, it was the first fall/find that occurred in the US for a number of years, and was captued on video. This all created the increased interest and demand, and thus increased the price. The Buzzard Coulee meteorite was also much larger (TKW) and did not receive the same marketing as Ash Creek. One thing that I do find odd is that there are NWA's and even OC's that demand high dollars compared to others that are the same classification. It just boils down to supply/demand and some good marketing and publicity. I may pay hundreds of dollars for a meteorite and be satisfied, while someone else may think it has little value. That's one of the things that makes it such an interesting hobby. Greg S. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ash Creek the most expensive ordinary chondrite?
ny only one or two states away) What costs more? The travel to Texas or Peru? Carancas had a much lower TKW then West (west TKW is more then double), made a crater and had a ton on media not to mention was of much more scientific importance then west due to the circumstances of the fall, crater and events that surrounded it. Thanks to Mike Farmer, the media attention around Carancas doubled. (not really a bad thing, but more a fact - his "escape" made for great reading and a neat story.) Its my opinion, however unpopular, that new falls are about getting as much profit as possible as fast as possible... I also think inaccurate reports of TW lead to the higher price of West - I still see people clearly stating that only about 3 kilos were recovered when I know of many who walked away with several kilos themselves! Another example of West and meteorite politics (which leads to these high prices)... The same people who were ready to exclude and not "allow" people to the AZ fall location (and used the excuse "we dont want others running in our backyard like they did in west") were actually the same ones doing just that to others backyards at West. I really think that the price is more about who gets there first and who is "allowed" to hunt the field. Meteorites are competitive and my eyes were opened to just how much so due to recent falls. When I first got into meteorites, I thought it was a pretty open group that welcomed newer members/collectors and future hunters. I quickly found out that not many are willing to "help the competition" and its basicly dog eat dog. Sure, many are willing to help you build your collection by selling you meteorites, but very few are actually willing to lend/offer first hand teaching and "in field" experience to those that want to learn from the people that are supposed to be "the best". I know my thoughts on this topic are not too popular with some, but I am honestly speaking from what I have seen looking in from the sidelines. Greg C. --- On Tue, 11/3/09, al mitt wrote: From: al mitt Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ash Creek the most expensive ordinary chondrite? To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 9:22 PM Hi Greg and all, While I think there are a lot of good points on why this meteorite was expensive, I think there is another factor in all this as well. The more people, meteorite hunters, collectors and so on that descend on a fall, the more expenses that have to be added into the cost. If you only have 50lbs (22.7 kilos) of material (for example) and fifty hunters, the cost for travel, motel, time and effort and payment to land owners will make that fall higher in price. If only a half dozen hunters search the area then the price would be substantially less. This assumes that they all find an average amount of material. I realize there is no way of knowing for certain how much material survived passage or can be found but seems if every meteorite hunter in a two thousand mile radius heads out and there are more hunters than material we're in for an expensive fall. I've heard some comments about fewer searchers then better chance of hunters price fixing but I don't think this would happen in most cases. I believe in the credibility of most hunters and collectors. As I have said many times before, ultimately it is what someone is willing to pay for an item that will dictate the price of material. Usually about a year after the fall is the best priced material. Well my two grams worth. All my best! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Greg Stanley" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ash Creek the most expensive ordinary chondrite? > All: > > I think the reason Ash Creek has a higher value is because of the publicity. It was major news among the meteorite community; even outside the meteorite community. Also, it was the first fall/find that occurred in the US for a number of years, and was captued on video. This all created the increased interest and demand, and thus increased the price. The Buzzard Coulee meteorite was also much larger (TKW) and did not receive the same marketing as Ash Creek. > > One thing that I do find odd is that there are NWA's and even OC's that demand high dollars compared to others that are the same classification. It just boils down to supply/demand and some good marketing and publicity. I may pay hundreds of dollars for a meteorite and be satisfied, while someone else may think it has little value. That's one of the things that makes it such an interesting hobby. > > Greg S. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://s
Re: [meteorite-list] Nininger & The Vatican
Greetings, Having read Eric's post on Nininger I thought I would remind people on the list (seasoned and newbies) that you can read more about Harvey Nininger at this link: http://www.meteorite.com/nininger/ at the meteorite.com area. Best! --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Greetings, Probably the closet book for someonen starting out is the Meteorite & Tektite Collectors Handbook by Bagnall. It is probably outdated now and hard to find a copy but just needs a second addtion. Why reinvent the wheel and have a thousand sites when you have good resources all ready available? --AL - Original Message - From: "Meteorites USA" To: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" Cc: "Mark Bowling" ; Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites &Competition) All this talk about a guide to meteorites for newbies makes it sound like the perfect venue would be the Meteorite Wiki. www.meteoritewiki.com Seems pretty simple to me. Everyone that would like to know anything about meteorites could learn it there. A book, is so, well... Old school... ;) (just kidding) Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA P.S. I know I'll probably get some brash emails on that one... ;) Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: Hi Mark and List, Such a book sounds like a great idea. A bunch of that info is located in the online Meteorite Times archives. There are several old articles by Jim Tobin that cover some of these lapidary type topics. But having all of those, and more like them, in one book would be nice. Best regards, MikeG On 11/15/09, Mark Bowling wrote: Hi Dennis and List, I would like to check out that new book (published by the "gals"?). I'm sure I'll get the chance at this years show. The other books I am familiar with (except maybe the one Anne mentioned). But none of these focus on the lapidary side of meteorites, the practical steps involved. I hope I wasn't clear about that when I mentioned possible "filler" material for the book (like cataloging, classifications, etc.). Such material is probably not appropriate for an illustrated guidebook for cutting, polishing, protecting (etc., etc.) the various types of meteorites. But I was just trying to throw out additional ideas. Best regards, Mark --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Dennis Miller wrote: From: Dennis Miller Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & Competition) To: impact...@aol.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:40 PM Como esta? Anne and List Richard's book will always be a standard. I recently bought Caroline Smith, Sara Russell and Gretchen Benedix's new book "Meteorites". These gals "Drs" put together a great book for those with the slightest interest in meteorites. It's basic and very easy to read. Loads of great pictures too. I also like Kevin Kichinka's "The Art of Collecting Meteorites". Now, if you aren't a "Newbie" you will love McSween's "Meteorites and Their Parent Planets". I use my copy to fill up the shelf! But, what a Great Hobby, no matter what some say. Have A Great Day! Sorry Anne but, Think Snow!!! Dennis From: impact...@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:45:39 -0500 To: mina...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & Competition) Hello Mark and List, There is already a book that answers a lot of your questions, not all of them, but quite a few. It is the Handbook of Meteorites by O. Richard Norton. I certainly would recommend getting it. Also I would like to add one thing to the discussion about helping new meteorite enthusiasts; It is not because you did not see a response on the List that no help of response was sent. It is often a whole lot better to email that person privately to ask for additional details to narrow down the problem, or simply to protect that person from some public embarassement. I know I probably write 50 private emails for every one posted here. And then we are not all always glued to our computer (believe it or not!!), personally I have a book (about meteorites of course) to translate as quickly as possible so it will be available in Tucson. And Norbert Classen and I have the dubious honor of having to answer every question that comes in on the IMCA questions email address. Also time consuming. And right now I have a whole lot of snow to shovel!!! Have a nice day. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _impact...@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 11/15/2009 8:30:51 AM Mountain Standard Time, mina...@yahoo.com writes: Dear List, I think Adam has some great points. I think people forget how rare these things are. Prices often don't reflect that. I think people are more likely to give advice when a "newbie" asks something like, I've ruined several slices trying to do such & such, I've tried A and B, what else should I do. it shows that they're paying their dues, but need a little advice which they can
Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorite & Competition)
Hi Gary and all, If listee's read about the Port Orford Meteorite Mystery by Roy S. Clarke and Plokin they should also read the article in Meteorite Magazine, May 2007 by Doug Borgard. Borgard covers a lot of items that I have maintained about the Port Orford Meteorite over the years and shows many of the flaws that are in the Port Orford Meteorite Mystery. I didn't necessarly agree as much with the second part as much as I did with the first part but it is another view on the Port Orford Meteorite which I view as real. Here are my views expressed back in 2007 about his article: In the May issue of Meteorite Magazine, there is an excellent article about the Port Orford Meteorite by Doug Borgard. Doug relates many of the issues I have brought up over the last several years in regards to the official Publication that it was a hoax. While it may have been a hoax, I think that Doug's article has exonerated John Evans, who I feel did his part and was an innocent party to this allege hoax. There is a second part that will be published in the August issue of Meteorite. Don't know what Doug will say but if he has found some of the same material that a friend of mine who research this very thoroughly, there may be reference to Jackson who in my opinion had been unfairly treated at that time. He was undermined by those he hired and lost a job from the government. It is my believe that he had reasons to plant the imilac in place of the newly found Port Orford pieces. Perhaps he wanted to search, recover, or find this for himself and sell it to the government to make them pay. There is certainly a motive here. There are other scenarios also. In this article I believe that the real truth of the matter is brilliantly argued, mistakes by writers of the "John Evans and the Port Orford Meteorite Hoax" are cut to the bone and that a better explanation is given. One of the mistakes the investigator made was being on the wrong mountain. No wonder they didn't find anything. While I maintain this still could be a hoax, I in no way believe that John Evans had anything to do with that and better research was needed to explain things than was done. I look forward to the next installment of Doug's article. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Gary Fujihara" To: "Dennis Miller" Cc: ; Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:32 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (wasMeteorites & Competition) Aloha Dennis, Anne, listees, The Port Orford, Oregon Meteorite Mystery, Roy S Clarke, 1993 Smithsonian Press, 42 pg Great story of an even greater hoax __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] newbies coming out of the woodwork
Hi Steve and all, I think I would like to point out that people and newbies should be careful when accepting items from you. You have been buying some of your items from someone who was misrepresenting meteorites and was pointed out on this list. It would be nice of you if you were to point out to anyone accepting these free meteorites that they came from this person of very questionable reputation. My suggestion is not to buy from him so we don't get material that is of questionable pedigree into our collections. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "steve arnold" To: Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 8:31 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] newbies coming out of the woodwork Hi list and all. Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ablation Zone 5 Layers...Not
Hi Elton, You've brought up some very good discussion on the definition of fusion crusted specimens. I went to the authority, Buchwald's Iron Meteorites to see what he called it. He has written a lot about it. He states: "Cuts perpendicular to the surface of a freshly fallen iron meteorite disclose fusion crusts and heat affected rim zones. While the fusion crusts on stone meteorites are usually a product of simple melting, the crusts on iron meteorites are complex. The fusion crusts are the adhering remnants of ablated metal from the last part of the trajectory left on the surface when the velocity decreased below about 3 km/sec., and ablation ceased. The fusion crusts are, in principle, composed of an exterior fully oxidized, rapidly solidified nonmetallic melt." He shows a number of samples that are iron meteorites with various fusion crusts and identifies them that way. In some cases thick metallic fusion crust to describe flows and so forth. While I think there is some agreement with what Buchwald said and your trying to say, he still calls it fusion crust. Not to say that it is a term that is accurately describing a scientific effect on the outside of iron specimens. I have always felt and called some of my fresh iron falls fusion crusted because that is what Buchwald has defined them as in his books and feel it is a fair term to use unless a better term is identified and used by the scientific community that would label it different. I do know as you have pointed out that the term is often exaggerated way beyond the term that accurately defines it in Buchwald's Books and certainly abused by some seller of meteorites. Perhaps with this discussion, the overuse of the term on irons will be more carefully applied. All my best! --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites - Original Message - From: "MEM" To: "Meteorite-list" ; "Jason Utas" Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ablation Zone 5 Layers...Not Dear Jason If everything is a part of the fusion crust than every meteorite is fusion crusted end of discussion. So are you really saying that every meteorite regardless of how condition has fusion crust even if all the extra trans-located material is missing? I don't have the luxury of going point by point as you have but apparently you are unfamiliar with the Oxford and Cambridge dictionary definitions as well as all their Dictionaries of Geology. Most of the literature and practically all of the referenced websites use the silicate glassy/glassy term in defining fusion crust--and in context they are most always speaking of stoney meteorites. We've been down this discussion before and while I respect Buchwald's observations: he is an industrial metallurgist and had no training I can see in mineralogy nor geology. He became a iron meteorite subject matter expert in his own right( I don't know that he ever did any work on any other type. I see no incentive on his part to reevaluate the surface changes as he was focused on cataloging the interior features. Somehow I don't think "crust" was an issue for him and in the absence of inquiry into the use of the term there was never a need to rethink it. He has an email address--write him and ask him what he meant. Nininiger was a biology teacher and while another legitimate self-made expert in the field it wasn't technically oriented until late in his career. This shouldn't be taken as disrespectful and doesn't mean that everything he assumed was gospel-- especially given the state of scientific tools in his lifetime. He laid the foundation for meteoritical study but that doesn't mean he knew all there was to know about meteorites. His book about meteorite surface features was mainly a photo documentation with little analysis and generally lacking in comparative studies of the crust. Much of this argument that they are "the experts" and as such are infallible, is misguided and out of context, as the tools available now are vastly more quantitative than tools of their day. So is our body of knowledge more complete than during their careers. ( I am calling the ablation surface below any "crust" feature because well...it is. The ablation surface is the last level we can ascertain the fusion has occurred. When the crust is worn away the ablation surface is revealed. I am also not calling the oxide coating a "fusion crust" because,... well...it isn't ( necessarily) fused material and represents either condensation or contact metamorphism of the final flight air soaked, modified surface. I am also not calling the surface of SA's which show aero-thermo-dynamic interaction that form the troughs "crust" because partial melting/softening/gas jet ablation does not meet the definition of fusion/fusing. How you see it as fusion crust illustrates my point that we call everything fusion crust when it is not even fused material. I think it deserves a more objective review and
Re: [meteorite-list] Ablation Zone 5 Layers...Not
Hi Elton, You've brought up some very good discussion on the definition of fusion crusted specimens. I went to the authority, Buchwald's Iron Meteorites to see what he called it. He has written a lot about it. He states: "Cuts perpendicular to the surface of a freshly fallen iron meteorite disclose fusion crusts and heat affected rim zones. While the fusion crusts on stone meteorites are usually a product of simple melting, the crusts on iron meteorites are complex. The fusion crusts are the adhering remnants of ablated metal from the last part of the trajectory left on the surface when the velocity decreased below about 3 km/sec., and ablation ceased. The fusion crusts are, in principle, composed of an exterior fully oxidized, rapidly solidified nonmetallic melt." He shows a number of samples that are iron meteorites with various fusion crusts and identifies them that way. In some cases thick metallic fusion crust to describe flows and so forth. While I think there is some agreement with what Buchwald said and your trying to say, he still calls it fusion crust. Not to say that it is a term that is accurately describing a scientific effect on the outside of iron specimens. I have always felt and called some of my fresh iron falls fusion crusted because that is what Buchwald has defined them as in his books and feel it is a fair term to use unless a better term is identified and used by the scientific community that would label it different. I do know as you have pointed out that the term is often exaggerated way beyond the term that accurately defines it in Buchwald's Books and certainly abused by some seller of meteorites. Perhaps with this discussion, the overuse of the term on irons will be more carefully applied. All my best! --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites - Original Message - From: "MEM" To: "Meteorite-list" ; "Jason Utas" Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ablation Zone 5 Layers...Not Dear Jason If everything is a part of the fusion crust than every meteorite is fusion crusted end of discussion. So are you really saying that every meteorite regardless of how condition has fusion crust even if all the extra trans-located material is missing? I don't have the luxury of going point by point as you have but apparently you are unfamiliar with the Oxford and Cambridge dictionary definitions as well as all their Dictionaries of Geology. Most of the literature and practically all of the referenced websites use the silicate glassy/glassy term in defining fusion crust--and in context they are most always speaking of stoney meteorites. We've been down this discussion before and while I respect Buchwald's observations: he is an industrial metallurgist and had no training I can see in mineralogy nor geology. He became a iron meteorite subject matter expert in his own right( I don't know that he ever did any work on any other type. I see no incentive on his part to reevaluate the surface changes as he was focused on cataloging the interior features. Somehow I don't think "crust" was an issue for him and in the absence of inquiry into the use of the term there was never a need to rethink it. He has an email address--write him and ask him what he meant. Nininiger was a biology teacher and while another legitimate self-made expert in the field it wasn't technically oriented until late in his career. This shouldn't be taken as disrespectful and doesn't mean that everything he assumed was gospel-- especially given the state of scientific tools in his lifetime. He laid the foundation for meteoritical study but that doesn't mean he knew all there was to know about meteorites. His book about meteorite surface features was mainly a photo documentation with little analysis and generally lacking in comparative studies of the crust. Much of this argument that they are "the experts" and as such are infallible, is misguided and out of context, as the tools available now are vastly more quantitative than tools of their day. So is our body of knowledge more complete than during their careers. ( I am calling the ablation surface below any "crust" feature because well...it is. The ablation surface is the last level we can ascertain the fusion has occurred. When the crust is worn away the ablation surface is revealed. I am also not calling the oxide coating a "fusion crust" because,... well...it isn't ( necessarily) fused material and represents either condensation or contact metamorphism of the final flight air soaked, modified surface. I am also not calling the surface of SA's which show aero-thermo-dynamic interaction that form the troughs "crust" because partial melting/softening/gas jet ablation does not meet the definition of fusion/fusing. How you see it as fusion crust illustrates my point that we call everything fusion crust when it is not even fused material. I think it deserves a
Re: [meteorite-list] Looking for: Catalogue of Meteorites
Hi Greg and all, Which edition?? --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites - Original Message - From: "Greg Catterton" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 10:33 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for: Catalogue of Meteorites I am looking for a copy of "The Catalogue of Meteorites" Used is fine, but I would like it to be in good condition. Cash/Trade? Anyone who can help, off list please. Thanks, Greg C. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad: eBay Auctions Ending Soon!
Greetings, I have a number of eBay offerings ending soon (5 to 6 hours). Listed items include Lost City Oklahoma low total weight available to collectors. Lafayette, Indiana Martian Meteorite (Nakhlite) and a indochinite tektite neckless with other attractive gemstones. You can find the auctions here: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/almittmet I'll be adding more auctions in the next few days and weeks. Stay tuned! All my best to everyone! --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: eBay Auctions
Greetings, I have some eBay Auctions ending in about one day to five days. Some of these include some rare items. http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/almittmet Items Include: Lafayette, Indiana, Lost City Oklahoma, Tambo Quemado iron with great widmanstatton, smaller imilac, Chile Pallasite, Allende Mexico CV3, Gibeon Namibia Whole, Norton County Aubrite, Richfield Kansas LL3.7, Murchison CM2 Carbonaceous and some other larger specimens. Auctions ending in about 1 to 6 days. Also have some hard to get Milton Missouri Meteorite Class: Third Type Pallasite Micro Specimen in an attractive display case .01 gram and a Lost City Micro starting at .99 cents! I'll be putting more items up as the weeks continue to Christmas and even after. If you are wanting something, contact me and I'll try to list an item for you or deal directly with you. Best! Have fun! All my best --AL __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] new and old meteorites forsale (AD)
Hi Steve, Do any of these items for sale or give a ways come with dealer cards? Are any of these from Bob Evan's who has been banned from this list and a good part of the meteorite community? --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "steve arnold" To: Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:40 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] new and old meteorites forsale (AD) Hi again list.I have 30 freebies all set with 10 more that need homes.I have 13 meteorites forsale.Some old and some new. So here goes again: -- 1.NWA 062 1.4 GRAMS PART-SLICE $25- 2.SANTA ROSA 51 GRAM SLICE $250- 3.NWA 079 7.5 GRAM PART SLICE $40- 4.SIKOTE-ALIN 25 GRAMS $40- 5.GRIFFITH,TX. 25 GRAMS SLICE $150- 6.BILANGA 2 GRAM FRAGMENT WITH CRUST ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FRAGMENT. $50- 7.IMILAC 4 GRAM ENDCUT $50- 8.CAMPO DEL CIELO 1.3 KILO'S $100- 9.CAMPO DEL CIELO 7.5 KILO'S $475- 10.NWA 085 9.5 GRAMS SLICE $50- 11.GAO 27 GRAM ORIENTED IND. $50- 12.JUANCHENG 4.5 GRAMS SLICE $40- 13.GAO 29 GRAM ORIENTED IND. $50- -- __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] In memoriam Walter Zeitschel
Hi Martin and all, In the early days, when there were very few dealers selling items, I contacted Walter and asked to be put on his mailing list. Even though I never bought very much from him, he was always kind to send a catalog to me so I could enjoy all of his offerings. I always got a kick out of having to convert dollars so I would know just how much something would cost me in his catalog. He was a true collector and the meteorite world has lost another great person! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Matthias Bärmann" To: "Martin Altmann" ; Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] In memoriam Walter Zeitschel Sad news, Martin. Unfortunately I'm not long enough a meteorite-aficionado, so my chance to know Walter Zeitschel personally wasn't really good. In any case, once I've been in contact with him via email and felt his intense engagement for the matter of the heavenly bodies immediately. May he rest in peace. My compassion is with his family and friends. Best regards, Matthias Baermann - Original Message - From: "Martin Altmann" To: Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:10 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] In memoriam Walter Zeitschel Last night Walter Zeitschel has left us. http://kuerzer.de/WalterZeitschel Walter was one of the most outstanding meteorite personalities of our times and one of, if not the greatest collector of the 20th century. Walter's meteorite specimens were for so many for us the doorstep to our lifelong fascination for those irons and rocks from space. Countless collectors he led to our hobby, long ago before meteorite collecting was as popular as today; till today. Our thoughts now are with his wife Nikki and his family. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Some meteorite words
Greetings, Leaverite: leaverite there it ain't a meteorite --AL __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Photography (Must read!)
Hi Erik and all, I'd think just the opposite would be correct. A higher f-stop (f 22, 18 etc.) would create a better depth of field and the more open your iris is on your camera (lower f stop, 1.8, 2.0 etc.) the less focused your items would be. I think you just stated it backwards. Best! --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites - Original Message - From: "Erik Fisler" To: "meteorite-list" Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 3:51 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Photography (Must read!) The third thing is auto-blending. For those of you who have SLR's you will notice that shooting at a higher F-stop like F1.8 or F2.8 is a lot sharper than shooting at a lower F-stop like F22. The problem is, you might have to drop your F-stop to make sure the whole meteorite is in focus. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Yields Carbon Crystals Harder ThanDiamond
Greetings all, I seriously doubt that the diamonds formed from pressure and heat entering the Earth's Atmosphere. The interior of meteorites usually stay cold all the way to the ground, except for rare acceptions. Diamonds from impact would be another story. --AL Mitterling From Sunny Tucson __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Yields Carbon Crystals Harder ThanDiamond
Greetings all, I seriously doubt that the diamonds formed from pressure and heat entering the Earth's Atmosphere. The interior of meteorites usually stay cold all the way to the ground, except for rare acceptions. Diamonds from impact would be another story. --AL Mitterling From Sunny Tucson - Original Message - From: "Ron Baalke" To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:23 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Yields Carbon Crystals Harder ThanDiamond experienced the intense heat and pressure of entering the Earth's atmosphere and crashing into the ground. The graphite layers would have been heated and shocked enough to create bonds between them, in much the same way as humans manufacture diamonds. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
