[mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started loping, and screeching noises in engine bay

[damac2004]

I'm new to these cars.  I got one of these a few months ago and planned on 
using it as a project to restore for fun.  I have been driving it as is 
because it worked.  I do have to get it smogged and clean up some neglect 
but it was getting me around ok with no funky noises.

Yesterday I came off the freeway and all of a sudden the high pressure oil 
buzzer constantly started going off.  I heard a racket of screeches and 
clunks in the engine bay and the engine was loping near idle speed.  So too 
many wierd things at once to ignore, but I had to get off the road so i 
probably ran the car about a minute after before turning it off.  just 
putting my safety first because of where i was vs. potentially blowing up a 
motor.

i had to work and came back to cold car.  i have good fluids and started it 
up for a bit.  it ran with just the hint of stumbling although i don't know 
if these cars typically do that while warming up.  it wasn't loping the 
same.  i reved it and didn't get the light to come on but noticed the 
racket sounded like its on the drive belt system.  while engine was running 
only odd thing i noticed is shavings i think near the intermediate shaft 
from the lower plastic timing belt cover.  couldn't quite tell if another 
pully was actually touching it.

im i correct to assume that if something in vbelt system dragged all it 
would do is slow down the timing belt, but that would still turn the im 
shaft without interference? 

is it possible a pulley wobbled its way into the im shaft and held it up? 
 i sure didn't smell smoking timing belt and will have to look closer.  it 
has power steering, alternator, water pump with 2 vbelts.

or maybe something bad happned inside engine with oil pump or the im 
bearings and the pulley side is worn and walking out and hitting?

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Re: [mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started loping, and screeching noises in engine bay

[damac2004]

sorry this car has a 16v motor.  i have been driving it for a couple months 
so the noise and loping is definately different and made me want to shut 
the car off.

no ac hardware installed i think somebody yanked it and did things the 
wrong way.

i got a bently manual and assume i will have to break things down to check, 
i guess i was just looking for some real world experience.

i just assumed something was getting jammed up in a way to put load on the 
timing belt side to make it lope at idle.  but that coupled with the oil 
light and shavings near the im shaft makes me fear its the engine side.   i 
can't even move a pulley when tugging by hand right now.

i had a diesel vacuum pump sieze up once and stopped the im shaft dead. 
 you could hear the belt screeching, oil light went off and you could smell 
the belt.  that was the craziest thing i have ever seen, was using a rotary 
type and the gear shaved grooves into the cover.


after i got it towed home last night i had to start it and move it onto the 
driveway.  started and ran as normal with no oil pressure light but i 
didn't want to warm it up.  wasn't loping but all the clattery 
racket/scratching can be heard especially after stabbing the throttle and 
letting off.



On Thursday, December 24, 2015 at 10:35:01 PM UTC-8, stevenarguello wrote:
>
> The 8v distributor runs off of the intermediate shaft along with the oil 
> pump. If it jumped a tooth or two the spark timing would be off. The 16v 
> dizzy runs off the cam. 
> Does it have A/C? 
>
>
>
> On Dec 24, 2015, at 12:22 PM, damac2004 <dama...@sbcglobal.net 
> > wrote:
>
> I'm new to these cars.  I got one of these a few months ago and planned on 
> using it as a project to restore for fun.  I have been driving it as is 
> because it worked.  I do have to get it smogged and clean up some neglect 
> but it was getting me around ok with no funky noises.
>
> Yesterday I came off the freeway and all of a sudden the high pressure oil 
> buzzer constantly started going off.  I heard a racket of screeches and 
> clunks in the engine bay and the engine was loping near idle speed.  So too 
> many wierd things at once to ignore, but I had to get off the road so i 
> probably ran the car about a minute after before turning it off.  just 
> putting my safety first because of where i was vs. potentially blowing up a 
> motor.
>
> i had to work and came back to cold car.  i have good fluids and started 
> it up for a bit.  it ran with just the hint of stumbling although i don't 
> know if these cars typically do that while warming up.  it wasn't loping 
> the same.  i reved it and didn't get the light to come on but noticed the 
> racket sounded like its on the drive belt system.  while engine was running 
> only odd thing i noticed is shavings i think near the intermediate shaft 
> from the lower plastic timing belt cover.  couldn't quite tell if another 
> pully was actually touching it.
>
> im i correct to assume that if something in vbelt system dragged all it 
> would do is slow down the timing belt, but that would still turn the im 
> shaft without interference? 
>
> is it possible a pulley wobbled its way into the im shaft and held it up? 
>  i sure didn't smell smoking timing belt and will have to look closer.  it 
> has power steering, alternator, water pump with 2 vbelts.
>
> or maybe something bad happned inside engine with oil pump or the im 
> bearings and the pulley side is worn and walking out and hitting?
>
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Re: [mk2-16v] 1991 gti oil buzzer went off, engine started loping, and screeching noises in engine bay

[damac2004]

oh boy i have been pulling this car apart today and i see some carnage. 
 previous owner strikes again, there are all sorts of little things wrong 
with this car.  

to my horror i found the im shaft oring laying on top of the control arm 
and something was flinging around behind the pulley so i knew it was loose, 
no bolts.

i guess all the interference on that side of the engine is what kept the im 
pulley on but it seems to have shaved metal bits away from the timing belt 
cover tin, water pump housing, etc.  i'm not understanding how that is even 
possible since its toward the engine, i guess i will have to investigate 
further to see if they are even the right parts.

so im assuming the oil pressure alarm went off when it started to work 
itself free and probably lost pressure at the im bearings, etc.  there is 
some weeping oil but oil mark was still on dipstick.  i emptied it today 
and found little metal specs.

the gear end of the im shaft is messed up but it appears the  im bearings 
are ok?  i have seen those go dry and crack and break apart and score. 
 these are smooth so maybe i caught it early?  even when the alarm 
triggered there was oil splashing up on the head, although i guess it was 
less for that minute i ran the car to get off the road.

what im wondering is there is a gear/cap that is held down into the block 
for the oil pump to ride through and im shaft to mate with.  i was 
expecting it to be broken up to but if you can see my picture it seems to 
be ok?  i don't see a hint of the wear the im shaft has.  so was that made 
of a less strong material?

do i have all the parts, it just sits in its spot in the block and rides 
metal on metal on the cap while bathed in oil?

im thinking of just doing a timing belt job and fixing little things and 
moving on hopefully the engine is ok?

also should i put in a better oil pump and a windage tray while i have it 
apart or is that needed?

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Op4aalVWq38/VpRuBw-IpFI/AMo/J_y4Gr6eSn0/s1600/P1112107.JPG>

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8ka6U7DJMKc/VpRuSUZ7U2I/AMw/19NzjDJxuk4/s1600/P1112109.JPG>

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VQ19U3trXH4/VpRulCpW7eI/AM4/2-lF52WSgfE/s1600/P1112110.JPG>




On Thursday, December 24, 2015 at 9:03:23 PM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> High pressure oil buzzer? In my twenty plus years of owning and working on 
> Mk2 16V VW's, this is the first time I've heard of the existence of a high 
> pressure oil alarm. At least with the 2.0 liter Motronic models, there 
> isn't even an audible low pressure oil pressure alarm. Only a red idiot 
> lamp, which illuminates when the ignition is switched on, and will 
> disappear once the engine starts. I believe that the warning lamp will 
> illuminate if the oil pressure drops below something like 7 - 10psi. An 
> engine with worn main bearings, or if the oil level is over about one quart 
> low may cause the warning lamp to flicker at idle, or possibly fully 
> illuminate if things are really bad. The other symptoms you describe could 
> be caused by a lot of issues. I suggest removing the upper timing belt 
> cover and perform a thorough visual inspection. Unfortunately, removing the 
> lower timing belt cover requires removing all the v- belts, as well as the 
> crank shaft pulley and crank damper. Also, I would check the main crank 
> damper bolt. If that were to loosen, the damper could start wobbeling, 
> which may explain the shavings in the bottom of the timing cover. There are 
> many other possible explanations for your issues, but things like this are 
> difficult to troubleshooting via textual explainations.
> I wish you luck, and always feel free to ask questions as they arise.
>
> ~Holland
> On Dec 24, 2015 20:25, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net > 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm new to these cars.  I got one of these a few months ago and planned 
>> on using it as a project to restore for fun.  I have been driving it as is 
>> because it worked.  I do have to get it smogged and clean up some neglect 
>> but it was getting me around ok with no funky noises.
>>
>> Yesterday I came off the freeway and all of a sudden the high pressure 
>> oil buzzer constantly started going off.  I heard a racket of screeches and 
>> clunks in the engine bay and the engine was loping near idle speed.  So too 
>> many wierd things at once to ignore, but I had to get off the road so i 
>> probably ran the car about a minute after before turning it off.  just 
>> putting my safety first because of where i was vs. potentially blowing up a 
>> motor.
>>
>> i had to work and came back to cold car.  i have good fluids and started 
>> it up for a bit.  it ran with just the hint of stumbling although i don't 
>> know if these

[mk2-16v] tranny popping out of fifth gear, can it be mounts or linkage?

[damac2004]

i have a jetta i replaced all shifter parts with after i got it to tighten 
things up.  my brother had fifth gear blow on it once when gear popped and he 
held it in a couple more times and it grenaded.

gti i got back on road popped out of fifth today.  it stayed in with little 
pedal but popped when i hit the gas?

with car in fifth i can move lever like 4 inches easy forward and back before 
it feels like its moving anything.

i cant remember jetta feel since im out of town but this seems loose regardless.

i recall having issues in jetta with its old original parts and mounts not 
letting me hit gears right.  

i just noticed i had to reach for reverse with a little grind and clunk.

i did not replace any mounts and engine does seem to move allot.

just curious if its possible motor shift can yank out of fifth?  

also forgot i drained tranny fluid when i got car and pit in redline gl4 and 
level is fine still after a few thousand miles.

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Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

i was tinkering more today and it seems they had these installed so the 
marks would line up on the cams.  if i go a tooth either way the marks 
touch when not parallel.

what i noticed though is when trying to line up the cam pulley marks the 
exhaust cam slot is level with the head but again the timing between the 
cam gears is not perfect.

i then messed around with turning engine over at crank bolt and noticed 
there is a little dead spot in the chain so it has the ability to load up?

i took the cams out and can't find any markings on the aftermarket cams so 
i guess all bets are off.

i found a thread that mentioned the #1 cam lobes as lining up toward center 
of cam caps with stock cams.  if i get my marks lined up on these cams the 
lobes at #1 do not quite match the same angle towards the middle of the 
head an using those studs as a marker.  so i guess one sits just a tad 
higher at that point than the other.  is this how aftermarket cams work or 
is it a bad sign that the heights are just a tad different?

also does the chain sound too loose?  i see no markings on that part and 
see the shape of teeth stock vs. aftermarket are different.  should each 
have their own part number or can you swap between ok?

i saw some instructions for aftermarket cam install that mentioned heat and 
press/mallet which made me also wonder about chain slack, mine just fall 
off.  not sure if thats how the stock setup is?


i thought about just putting it back together.  and/or trying stock cams. 
 the chain now bothers me though since i have never seen another one of 
these motors up close.


On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 3:52:22 PM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> When I installed Schrick 260/276 cams in my car, after my first attempt, 
> the marks appeared to line up very closely, but not quite exact. I figured 
> they were close enough, but when I started the engine, I could tell 
> immediately that it wasn't running correctly. It didn't rev as freely as it 
> did before I messed with it. So I took it back apart, and removed the cam 
> retainer caps on one cam so I could move the drive gear one tooth, and 
> rechecked the alignment marks. They were then lined up exactly. Reassembled 
> everything and started the engine once again. Perfect! The engine revved 
> freely and more quickly than ever. I already had a lightened flywheel, and 
> a bunch of other mods done to the engine, and with the new cams, the car 
> was noticeably faster than it had ever been. Moral of the story is all 
> those alignment marks MUST
> be exactly aligned, or all bets are off. 
>
> ~Holland
> On Feb 12, 2016 15:26, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net > 
> wrote:
>
>> im in california, ugh!  i found out the cams are estas.
>>
>> this may sound like a dumb question but when i went to time the car with 
>> stock pulley i found that the front cam is a little off. it looks like if i 
>> made sure the cam marks lined up its one tooth off.  this car was running 
>> like this, i don't think any valves were contacting pistons.  im scared to 
>> touch it in that sense since it had an adjustable cam.
>>
>> i don't understand how these motors work, should the #1 lobes be pointing 
>> towards the middle at the same angle?  its hard to tell exactly but it 
>> seems if i turned the front cam to match the internal marks that the cam 
>> lobe might match the other cam.  to me right now it looks just a tad off.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, February 5, 2016 at 2:12:10 PM UTC-8, Larry Velez wrote:
>>>
>>> What country are you in that you are so worried about passing smog?  In 
>>> the USA, most of these cars are now exempt.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> -Larry
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> *From:* mk2...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mk2...@googlegroups.com] *On 
>>> Behalf Of *damac2004
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 4, 2016 9:43 PM
>>> *To:* MK2-16v <mk2...@googlegroups.com>
>>> *Cc:* mg...@yahoo.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> so are people saying native 2.0 heads can fit onto the 1.8 bottom end?
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> is there any kind of clues on castings on the outside i can look for to 
>>> see what i have, and does anybody know if the stock cams 16v are the same 
>>> part number between 2 and 1.8 liter?
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> i just tore into this car more and of course the techtronics chip with 
>>> adjustable cam gear, and under the valve cover are not vw cams.  i got 
>>> colored stripes on these parts but all i can find is some kind of emblem. 
>>>  i emailed the

Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

half tooth off between the 2 cam gears?  thats kind of where mine is at. 
 once i got the slack out its real close which has me wondering about the 
tightness if it can bind up enough to send the marks off one way i assume 
the slack is also present turning the other way.



On Saturday, February 13, 2016 at 3:00:49 PM UTC-8, stevenarguello wrote:
>
> For what it's worth, I struggled lining the even the stock cams up, 
> eventually I sent shots to this list and got the ok, but to me the teeth 
> never matched up exactly, it was always 1/2 tooth off. 
>
> On Feb 13, 2016, at 5:40 PM, stan finch <dama...@sbcglobal.net 
> > wrote:
>
> i was tinkering more today and it seems they had these installed so the 
> marks would line up on the cams.  if i go a tooth either way the marks 
> touch when not parallel.
>
> what i noticed though is when trying to line up the cam pulley marks the 
> exhaust cam slot is level with the head but again the timing between the 
> cam gears is not perfect.
>
> i then messed around with turning engine over at crank bolt and noticed 
> there is a little dead spot in the chain so it has the ability to load up?
>
> i took the cams out and can't find any markings on the aftermarket cams so 
> i guess all bets are off.
>
> i found a thread that mentioned the #1 cam lobes as lining up toward 
> center of cam caps with stock cams.  if i get my marks lined up on these 
> cams the lobes at #1 do not quite match the same angle towards the middle 
> of the head an using those studs as a marker.  so i guess one sits just a 
> tad higher at that point than the other.  is this how aftermarket cams work 
> or is it a bad sign that the heights are just a tad different?
>
> also does the chain sound too loose?  i see no markings on that part and 
> see the shape of teeth stock vs. aftermarket are different.  should each 
> have their own part number or can you swap between ok?
>
> i saw some instructions for aftermarket cam install that mentioned heat 
> and press/mallet which made me also wonder about chain slack, mine just 
> fall off.  not sure if thats how the stock setup is?
>
>
> i thought about just putting it back together.  and/or trying stock cams. 
>  the chain now bothers me though since i have never seen another one of 
> these motors up close.
>
>
> On Friday, February 12, 2016 3:52 PM, Holland Phillips <
> holland...@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>
> When I installed Schrick 260/276 cams in my car, after my first attempt, 
> the marks appeared to line up very closely, but not quite exact. I figured 
> they were close enough, but when I started the engine, I could tell 
> immediately that it wasn't running correctly. It didn't rev as freely as it 
> did before I messed with it. So I took it back apart, and removed the cam 
> retainer caps on one cam so I could move the drive gear one tooth, and 
> rechecked the alignment marks. They were then lined up exactly. Reassembled 
> everything and started the engine once again. Perfect! The engine revved 
> freely and more quickly than ever. I already had a lightened flywheel, and 
> a bunch of other mods done to the engine, and with the new cams, the car 
> was noticeably faster than it had ever been. Moral of the story is all 
> those alignment marks MUST
> be exactly aligned, or all bets are off. 
> ~Holland
> On Feb 12, 2016 15:26, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net > 
> wrote:
>
> im in california, ugh!  i found out the cams are estas.
>
> this may sound like a dumb question but when i went to time the car with 
> stock pulley i found that the front cam is a little off. it looks like if i 
> made sure the cam marks lined up its one tooth off.  this car was running 
> like this, i don't think any valves were contacting pistons.  im scared to 
> touch it in that sense since it had an adjustable cam.
>
> i don't understand how these motors work, should the #1 lobes be pointing 
> towards the middle at the same angle?  its hard to tell exactly but it 
> seems if i turned the front cam to match the internal marks that the cam 
> lobe might match the other cam.  to me right now it looks just a tad off.
>
>
>
> On Friday, February 5, 2016 at 2:12:10 PM UTC-8, Larry Velez wrote:
>
> What country are you in that you are so worried about passing smog?  In 
> the USA, most of these cars are now exempt.
>  
> -Larry
>  
> *From:* mk2...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mk2...@googlegroups.com] *On 
> Behalf Of *damac2004
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 4, 2016 9:43 PM
> *To:* MK2-16v <mk2...@googlegroups.com>
> *Cc:* mg...@yahoo.com
> *Subject:* Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?
>  
> so are people saying native 2.0 heads can fit ont

Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

1.  yes there is an ecu and it has a techtronics chip in it that says 16v 
2.0

2.  i think it does have 2 knock sensors on the front of the block to the 
left of the block breather fitting?  each one looks the same, one has a 
bare wire the whole length, and each goes to its own wire harness clip.

3.  this car is disabled on the driveway and im struggling to get it higher 
for me to get underneath.  i was trying to feel around back there from 
underneath looking up and all i can find on the drivers side lower block is 
a big embossed A

i'm new to these cars so im scared its some kind of other engine.  this 
still doesn't explain how this car was using the larger im shaft and 
smaller oil pump gear?  there isn't a mark anywhere on those parts so 
obviously they aren't hitting the guts of the engine.



On Monday, February 1, 2016 at 12:04:43 PM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> Does it have a ECU mounted under the plastic tray at the base of the 
> windshield?  The tray covers the windshield wiper motor, and is held on by 
> some clips. If it does, it's probably a 9A. The 1.8 liter 16V doesn't 
> utilize an ECU.
>
> ~Holland
> On Feb 1, 2016 11:59, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net > 
> wrote:
>
>> the chasis is a 1991 gti but i don't trust the previous owners after 
>> having seen all the hack jobs.  for all i know another motor is in there :(
>>
>>
>> im trying to look on front of block and see these markings in the picture 
>> i attached, down below that is the part number.
>>
>>
>> On Monday, February 1, 2016 at 8:30:48 AM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't recall you saying what year your car is. If it's a '91-'92 2.0 
>>> liter 16V, the engine designation is 9A.
>>>
>>> ~Holland
>>> On Jan 31, 2016 11:51 PM, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> is there some kind of decoder?  when i search google i come up with few 
>>>> and differing answers.  i want to find out what engine i have so i can 
>>>> make 
>>>> sure i get the right intermediate shaft and stock parts to get it smogged.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> the block says:  051 103 021
>>>>
>>>> the head says:  051103373
>>>>
>>>> -- 
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>>>> Groups "MK2-16v" group.
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Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

somebody on forums just showed me a couple pictures that makes it pretty 
clear now.  since i haven't touched these parts before it didn't dawn on me 
to look at where you slide the oil pump im shaft gear in is a different 
dimension!

it looks like i have a 1.8 block, there is a little bit of wiggle room to 
feed the gear from outside block.  the 2.0 block has a bigger hole to fit 
the bigger gear!

the im shafts are definately different, the 1.8 is bulkier with gear oil 
pump side shaft past where it rides on bearing and gear itself.  so that 
part must be what people say hits.

so i need to order a 1.8 im shaft.

so maybe its safe to assume with the wiring and ecu that the car had 
another motor originally?  is it possible somebody left all the chasis 
fueling stuff and even put on a different head to a 1.8 bottom end?

oh boy i hope this doesn't stop me from getting smogged.

On Tuesday, February 2, 2016 at 9:37:13 AM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> The external differences between 1.8 and 2.0 16V heads and blocks are very 
> minimal. I don't recall the over hang you speak of, but I wouldn't be 
> concerned. 
>
> ~Holland
> On Feb 2, 2016 09:28, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net > 
> wrote:
>
>> hmmm, i am still not convinced and found a 1.8 oil pump in it.
>>
>> is there a problem with me going with the 2.0 im shaft/gear and its oil 
>> pump?  if im reading right it can only help?  then i won't have to worry.
>>
>> the more i read im still not seeing how it can be a 2.0 bottom end with 
>> the 1.8 intermediate shaft if things don't hit when running the engine.
>>
>>
>> is it normal for the head on these motors to stick way out past the front 
>> of the block where they meet?  im used to seeing that area flush on 
>> mydiesel where mated.
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 2, 2016 at 6:55:11 AM UTC-8, mgyip wrote:
>>>
>>> Sure sounds like a 2.0l 16v especially because of the 2 knock sensors 
>>> which were only present on the 91 and later cars - Digifunk for 8v and 
>>> Moronic for 16v.  I wouldn't necessarily throw TEPO (the evil previous 
>>> owner) under the bus though - Volkswagen was/is notorious for having a vast 
>>> spare parts bin that crossed model types and years, throwing together old 
>>> and new model parts when their supply was thin.  In 91-92, VW quality was, 
>>> um, not-so-good and their supply was the same.  
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, February 1, 2016 5:51 PM, Holland Phillips <
>>> faster...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, it's definitely a 9A engine. Whatever else is going on with the 
>>> internals is a mystery. I would just buy all the replacement parts you need 
>>> for the 9A and be done with it.
>>> On Feb 1, 2016 14:30, damac2004 <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> 1.  yes there is an ecu and it has a techtronics chip in it that says 
>>> 16v 2.0
>>>
>>> 2.  i think it does have 2 knock sensors on the front of the block to 
>>> the left of the block breather fitting?  each one looks the same, one has a 
>>> bare wire the whole length, and each goes to its own wire harness clip.
>>>
>>> 3.  this car is disabled on the driveway and im struggling to get it 
>>> higher for me to get underneath.  i was trying to feel around back there 
>>> from underneath looking up and all i can find on the drivers side lower 
>>> block is a big embossed A
>>>
>>> i'm new to these cars so im scared its some kind of other engine.  this 
>>> still doesn't explain how this car was using the larger im shaft and 
>>> smaller oil pump gear?  there isn't a mark anywhere on those parts so 
>>> obviously they aren't hitting the guts of the engine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, February 1, 2016 at 12:04:43 PM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
>>>
>>> Does it have a ECU mounted under the plastic tray at the base of the 
>>> windshield?  The tray covers the windshield wiper motor, and is held on by 
>>> some clips. If it does, it's probably a 9A. The 1.8 liter 16V doesn't 
>>> utilize an ECU.
>>> ~Holland
>>> On Feb 1, 2016 11:59, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> the chasis is a 1991 gti but i don't trust the previous owners after 
>>> having seen all the hack jobs.  for all i know another motor is in there :(
>>>
>>>
>>> im trying to look on front of block and see these markings in the 
>>> picture i attached, down below that is the part number.
>>>
>>>
&g

[mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

is there some kind of decoder?  when i search google i come up with few and 
differing answers.  i want to find out what engine i have so i can make 
sure i get the right intermediate shaft and stock parts to get it smogged.


the block says:  051 103 021

the head says:  051103373

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Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

hmmm, i am still not convinced and found a 1.8 oil pump in it.

is there a problem with me going with the 2.0 im shaft/gear and its oil 
pump?  if im reading right it can only help?  then i won't have to worry.

the more i read im still not seeing how it can be a 2.0 bottom end with the 
1.8 intermediate shaft if things don't hit when running the engine.


is it normal for the head on these motors to stick way out past the front 
of the block where they meet?  im used to seeing that area flush on 
mydiesel where mated.

On Tuesday, February 2, 2016 at 6:55:11 AM UTC-8, mgyip wrote:
>
> Sure sounds like a 2.0l 16v especially because of the 2 knock sensors 
> which were only present on the 91 and later cars - Digifunk for 8v and 
> Moronic for 16v.  I wouldn't necessarily throw TEPO (the evil previous 
> owner) under the bus though - Volkswagen was/is notorious for having a vast 
> spare parts bin that crossed model types and years, throwing together old 
> and new model parts when their supply was thin.  In 91-92, VW quality was, 
> um, not-so-good and their supply was the same.  
>
>
> On Monday, February 1, 2016 5:51 PM, Holland Phillips <
> faster...@pacbell.net > wrote:
>
>
> Well, it's definitely a 9A engine. Whatever else is going on with the 
> internals is a mystery. I would just buy all the replacement parts you need 
> for the 9A and be done with it.
> On Feb 1, 2016 14:30, damac2004 <dama...@sbcglobal.net > 
> wrote:
>
> 1.  yes there is an ecu and it has a techtronics chip in it that says 16v 
> 2.0
>
> 2.  i think it does have 2 knock sensors on the front of the block to the 
> left of the block breather fitting?  each one looks the same, one has a 
> bare wire the whole length, and each goes to its own wire harness clip.
>
> 3.  this car is disabled on the driveway and im struggling to get it 
> higher for me to get underneath.  i was trying to feel around back there 
> from underneath looking up and all i can find on the drivers side lower 
> block is a big embossed A
>
> i'm new to these cars so im scared its some kind of other engine.  this 
> still doesn't explain how this car was using the larger im shaft and 
> smaller oil pump gear?  there isn't a mark anywhere on those parts so 
> obviously they aren't hitting the guts of the engine.
>
>
>
> On Monday, February 1, 2016 at 12:04:43 PM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> Does it have a ECU mounted under the plastic tray at the base of the 
> windshield?  The tray covers the windshield wiper motor, and is held on by 
> some clips. If it does, it's probably a 9A. The 1.8 liter 16V doesn't 
> utilize an ECU.
> ~Holland
> On Feb 1, 2016 11:59, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> the chasis is a 1991 gti but i don't trust the previous owners after 
> having seen all the hack jobs.  for all i know another motor is in there :(
>
>
> im trying to look on front of block and see these markings in the picture 
> i attached, down below that is the part number.
>
>
> On Monday, February 1, 2016 at 8:30:48 AM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> I don't recall you saying what year your car is. If it's a '91-'92 2.0 
> liter 16V, the engine designation is 9A.
>
> ~Holland
> On Jan 31, 2016 11:51 PM, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> is there some kind of decoder?  when i search google i come up with few 
> and differing answers.  i want to find out what engine i have so i can make 
> sure i get the right intermediate shaft and stock parts to get it smogged.
>
>
> the block says:  051 103 021
>
> the head says:  051103373
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Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

thanks that info helps i will get this car going again.  

car was running fine to me.  last drive i came off freeway to oil light and i 
ran the car near idle for almost a minute while getting off road.  turned out 
im carrier had no bolts so it tried to pop out and knicked some of im shaft 
gear which was in pan.  i always had to get car smogged but i had to get a cat 
fitted because it didnt have one.

i didnt check compression i guess taking effort to turn over by hand with 
ratchet isnt enough?  car did run fine again after i fixed im shaft and before 
i yanked cams.

i did not try the aftermarket chip i figured it would run like crap, guess its 
worth a try?

is it possible somebody did work inside head for aftermarket cams to cause me 
problems?

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Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

i finally got this car back together and of course its a mess.  i put what 
i was told was the stock chip, manifold, cams and throttle body back on the 
car.

verified all timing marks.  circle on the flywheel as well as having a 
dipstick on #1.  stock cam gears with marks aligning and the stock cam gear 
with marks aligning deck and cover.  i put a new chain on and there was no 
loading up of slack like the other setup.

i'm still not sure of all the things the previous owners did but i put the 
distributor back where it was.  the car did not like this at all and i 
could just barely tell it was trying to fire but sounds funny like air 
escaping in the engine bay.  the manual shows a baseline setting with the 
notch on housing and the rotor so i tried that and no better.  then i 
started turning it to the right and was able to get it to start but it was 
chugging and shaking the motor.  while running i turned it all the way to 
the right and it atleast stayed running but still loping with a little 
engine shake.

as soon as you push the pedal and take off the idle switch the car screams 
up in rpms almost 2000 rpm.  it sounded better and smoother but the pedal 
wasn't doing anything and if i held it there a second or two later the rpms 
dropped and the car dies.

i still don't really know what i am doing here.  what other variables could 
be causing me such problems now?  does the ecu need to be reset or 
something after a chip change?  could they have had different injectors 
with the cams or messed with some kind of fueling settings?  there is no 
adjustments on this cars throttle body.

i am tempted to now swap back to the other cams and how the car was setup 
since it was running so good and i don't have a clue what i am doing.


On Saturday, February 13, 2016 at 4:57:06 PM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> Yes, in a chain/gear system, any slack is bidirectional. In a system with 
> a long chain and/or multiple size gears as in a bicycle, there may be some 
> sort of tensioner, like the derailer on a 5 - 27 speed bicycle. In the case 
> of our cars, the chain is so short, and the inertia caused by the rpm keeps 
> the cam timing consistent. However, that chain will stretch over time, so 
> on a high mileage engine, it's a good idea to replace the chain. As I 
> recall, they aren't very expensive. But that was several years ago, and 
> they were still readily available. 
>
> ~Holland
> On Feb 13, 2016 16:40, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net > 
> wrote:
>
>> half tooth off between the 2 cam gears?  thats kind of where mine is at. 
>>  once i got the slack out its real close which has me wondering about the 
>> tightness if it can bind up enough to send the marks off one way i assume 
>> the slack is also present turning the other way.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, February 13, 2016 at 3:00:49 PM UTC-8, stevenarguello wrote:
>>>
>>> For what it's worth, I struggled lining the even the stock cams up, 
>>> eventually I sent shots to this list and got the ok, but to me the teeth 
>>> never matched up exactly, it was always 1/2 tooth off. 
>>>
>>> On Feb 13, 2016, at 5:40 PM, stan finch <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> i was tinkering more today and it seems they had these installed so the 
>>> marks would line up on the cams.  if i go a tooth either way the marks 
>>> touch when not parallel.
>>>
>>> what i noticed though is when trying to line up the cam pulley marks the 
>>> exhaust cam slot is level with the head but again the timing between the 
>>> cam gears is not perfect.
>>>
>>> i then messed around with turning engine over at crank bolt and noticed 
>>> there is a little dead spot in the chain so it has the ability to load up?
>>>
>>> i took the cams out and can't find any markings on the aftermarket cams 
>>> so i guess all bets are off.
>>>
>>> i found a thread that mentioned the #1 cam lobes as lining up toward 
>>> center of cam caps with stock cams.  if i get my marks lined up on these 
>>> cams the lobes at #1 do not quite match the same angle towards the middle 
>>> of the head an using those studs as a marker.  so i guess one sits just a 
>>> tad higher at that point than the other.  is this how aftermarket cams work 
>>> or is it a bad sign that the heights are just a tad different?
>>>
>>> also does the chain sound too loose?  i see no markings on that part and 
>>> see the shape of teeth stock vs. aftermarket are different.  should each 
>>> have their own part number or can you swap between ok?
>>>
>>> i saw some instructions for aftermarket cam install that mentioned he

Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

all new seals, etc.  i thought the wierd noise may have been timing?

sprayed all around for leaks and there arent any vac leaks i fixed those before.

i was told i got a 1.8 bottom end with 2.0 head.  i believe chasis gti is 2.0

i just looked up fuel distributor and ecu part numbers and google says 91-93 
passat for both?

when i got the car it had vacuum leaks this goes beyond that you can tell its 
not running right.

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Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

thanks but this is the reason im all over the place and freaking out.  i 
checked and marked things before i took the car apart.  had this incident not 
happened i would have installed the cat and went to smog.

i have triple checked timing which is pretty simple.  all marks line up and 
dipstick in #1 confirms tdc.

the car simply wouldnt start with rotor lined up in prep for timing light so 
thats why i started moving it and rotated all the way to right it starts and 
barely idles.  i then tried other positions and car wont work it just cranks.

so im grasping at sraws now.  no clue if ecu or fuel system on top of airbox 
can be messed with.

i can switch throttle body since im desperate.  after that i dont know what to 
do except put all old stuff on and try again?

i will make a video monday and try and read bently fuel section

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Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

i did use the same oil pump there was no debris?  i cleaned it up and tested 
and when i hit im shaft with impact it sprayed out in the engine bay and built 
pressure so figured i would try if it measured ok?

this is my first time with gasser but timing belt job seems easy to me?  a 
tooth off the belt is going to send marks somewhere off.  i put a ratchet on 
crank bolt and turn over and use a screwdriver in inspection hole to get 0 
lined up perfect.  cam marks in and out line up.

also before i took things apart adjustable cam sprocket was at stock position 
with keyway and flywheel also lined up so i assumed no head shaving from 
beginning.

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Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

i could test compression but it it did drive fine before i tore it all apart, 
after this incident.

this car had no cat so 02 sensor was laying underneath airbox this whole time 
:). 

i thought the car stunk and i got bad mileage but this car was fun to drive. i 
was beating on itand it pulled when i stomped on it all the time

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Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

i put the techtronics chip back in and put the older throttle body back in 
with no changes in how the car is acting.  i also checked grounds and ran 
some extras to the bundle on head, etc. just in case.

my issues make for a useless car, no way it could be driven.  so my 
problems seem way beyond the little tuning people do to get their cars 
running right.  this car ran and drove when i got it with very old and worn 
injector seals and numerous vacuum lines with holes in it. it ran its best 
when hot and on the throttle never gave out on me or died. although it had 
goofy issues with starting consistently and idling a little 
high/rough/inconsistent at times.

and i see people mention 02 sensors and cts making for a rough running car 
possibly but again this is way worse than that.

i'm stuck so tomorrow i am going to put the old cams, etc. back on and 
cross my fingers.

On Saturday, February 27, 2016 at 8:41:59 PM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> Since the Mk 2 cars were all pre OBD, they had only one O2 sensor which 
> was mounted before the cat. So the ECU never knew if the cat even existed 
> or was functioning properly. Now that I think about it, if the O2 sensor 
> has no output, or was not connected, the ECU will go into "safe mode", 
> which is full rich. Hence your poor fuel mileage. I also recalled that the 
> O2 sensor on the Motronic cars is a three wire type, which means it has a 
> heater, so its output will become valid more quickly in order to reduce 
> emissions. All this is bringing back memories of all the 16V trivia I 
> acquired over the years. 
>
> ~Holland
> On Feb 27, 2016 20:00, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net > 
> wrote:
>
>> i could test compression but it it did drive fine before i tore it all 
>> apart, after this incident.
>>
>> this car had no cat so 02 sensor was laying underneath airbox this whole 
>> time :).
>>
>> i thought the car stunk and i got bad mileage but this car was fun to 
>> drive. i was beating on itand it pulled when i stomped on it all the time
>>
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>

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Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

also forgot to mention some other people told me about bad batches of cams 
years ago with incorrect cut keyways.  so i'm going to try and take these 
cams out and see if i can find some stampings and hopefully the company 
and/or google research can rule my specific cams out.  can't imagine why 
somebody installed them a tooth out but ya never know.  

On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 3:26:47 PM UTC-8, damac2004 wrote:
>
> im in california, ugh!  i found out the cams are estas.
>
> this may sound like a dumb question but when i went to time the car with 
> stock pulley i found that the front cam is a little off. it looks like if i 
> made sure the cam marks lined up its one tooth off.  this car was running 
> like this, i don't think any valves were contacting pistons.  im scared to 
> touch it in that sense since it had an adjustable cam.
>
> i don't understand how these motors work, should the #1 lobes be pointing 
> towards the middle at the same angle?  its hard to tell exactly but it 
> seems if i turned the front cam to match the internal marks that the cam 
> lobe might match the other cam.  to me right now it looks just a tad off.
>

also  

>
>
> On Friday, February 5, 2016 at 2:12:10 PM UTC-8, Larry Velez wrote:
>>
>> What country are you in that you are so worried about passing smog?  In 
>> the USA, most of these cars are now exempt.
>>
>>  
>>
>> -Larry
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:* mk2...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mk2...@googlegroups.com] *On 
>> Behalf Of *damac2004
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 4, 2016 9:43 PM
>> *To:* MK2-16v <mk2...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Cc:* mg...@yahoo.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?
>>
>>  
>>
>> so are people saying native 2.0 heads can fit onto the 1.8 bottom end?
>>
>>  
>>
>> is there any kind of clues on castings on the outside i can look for to 
>> see what i have, and does anybody know if the stock cams 16v are the same 
>> part number between 2 and 1.8 liter?
>>
>>  
>>
>> i just tore into this car more and of course the techtronics chip with 
>> adjustable cam gear, and under the valve cover are not vw cams.  i got 
>> colored stripes on these parts but all i can find is some kind of emblem. 
>>  i emailed them asking where part numbers are just in case its their parts.
>>
>>  
>>
>> i don't know if this has an effect on smog but i just want to put the car 
>> back stock.
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 2, 2016 at 9:37:13 AM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
>>
>> The external differences between 1.8 and 2.0 16V heads and blocks are 
>> very minimal. I don't recall the over hang you speak of, but I wouldn't be 
>> concerned. 
>>
>> ~Holland
>>
>> On Feb 2, 2016 09:28, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> hmmm, i am still not convinced and found a 1.8 oil pump in it.
>>
>>  
>>
>> is there a problem with me going with the 2.0 im shaft/gear and its oil 
>> pump?  if im reading right it can only help?  then i won't have to worry.
>>
>>  
>>
>> the more i read im still not seeing how it can be a 2.0 bottom end with 
>> the 1.8 intermediate shaft if things don't hit when running the engine.
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> is it normal for the head on these motors to stick way out past the front 
>> of the block where they meet?  im used to seeing that area flush on 
>> mydiesel where mated.
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 2, 2016 at 6:55:11 AM UTC-8, mgyip wrote:
>>
>> Sure sounds like a 2.0l 16v especially because of the 2 knock sensors 
>> which were only present on the 91 and later cars - Digifunk for 8v and 
>> Moronic for 16v.  I wouldn't necessarily throw TEPO (the evil previous 
>> owner) under the bus though - Volkswagen was/is notorious for having a vast 
>> spare parts bin that crossed model types and years, throwing together old 
>> and new model parts when their supply was thin.  In 91-92, VW quality was, 
>> um, not-so-good and their supply was the same.  
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Monday, February 1, 2016 5:51 PM, Holland Phillips <
>> faster...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>> Well, it's definitely a 9A engine. Whatever else is going on with the 
>> internals is a mystery. I would just buy all the replacement parts you need 
>> for the 9A and be done with it.
>>
>> On Feb 1, 2016 14:30, damac2004 <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> 1.  yes there is an ecu and it has a techtronics chip in it that says

[mk2-16v] Re: deal on mk2 parts

[damac2004]

cool.  i don't remember how but i think you can change the link to apply to 
code for other vehicles so you can view the clearance page for your desired 
car. 

whats wierd about rock auto for me is i have tried them in the past and the 
online ordering system with crazy shipping prices from different warehouses 
has always slowed down and ruined the whole experience so i just quit 
trying.

On Wednesday, March 9, 2016 at 5:22:11 PM UTC-8, chadrebuck wrote:
>
> I got an email from Rock Auto today about closeout inventory for 1990 vw 
> jetta parts.  Lots of stuff available.  Oil filters such as wix brand which 
> are highly regarded for quality are only 1.50. I probably shouldn't share 
> the link before I buy some but I think my car is going to go up for sale 
> before I get around to the next oil change :)
>
> Wholesaler closeouts for your 1990 VOLKSWAGEN JETTA 
> 
> :
>
> http://www.rockauto.com/RSS/vehiclefeeds.php?carcode=1283262=wc=en=true
>

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Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

oh boy i am feeling stupid and think i have found the smoking gun here.

is it possible that having 2 open holes on the back of the intake manifold 
made the car act this way?

this is not a california chasis so no egr stuff.  when i pulled the euro 
manifold one hole had a bolt stuck through it with rtv and another hole was 
held by bolts and gasket.

when i was transferring everything over to the stock manifold i remember 
poking down the hole with brake cleaner hose and hit what i thought was 
solid wall on each.  at the time never seeing egr stuff assumed it maybe 
would be drilled out for a car that needed that hardware.

i had filled the holes up with brake cleaner with that side up and don't 
think i paid close enough attention so this whole time it was installed on 
the car like that.

tonight as i went to transfer the old parts back on as my last hope effort 
i noticed some leakage when spraying brake cleaner and a light bulb went 
off.  so with those holes up if i spray one hole it fills the other hole 
up.  if you leave the manifold sit the level of fluid just sits there. 
 when i went to tilt sideways one way nothing happened but leaking out the 
top.  when i tilted the other way 2 of the runners leaked the fluid out.

i don't know these cars at all.  since the car wasn't running right i never 
wanted to let it run long since it wasn't acting like a real car.  my mom 
was watching and said i see some smoke and it sounds funny but of course i 
told her its just stuff burning off and that it wasn't running right. 
 couldn't really take a chance to look or feel closer.

i have seen people mention these cars can run crappy with vac leaks and 
they don't run without the intake tubes attached?  i'm hoping this is what 
it was.  going to make some block off plates and gasket to seal those 2 
holes up tight and then install all the old parts on it and hope like magic 
its back to normal and then i can smog it.

On Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 10:41:38 AM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> I just thought of something. Any chance the fuel in the tank could be 
> contaminated? Since I think you said you're in California, the fuel here is 
> probably the worst in the U.S.. With the ethanol and other crazy additives 
> that's in it, it has an extremely short shelf life. 
> An other thing, I wonder how the fuel pumps are? If either the main or 
> transfer pump aren't healthy, that can cause weird running problems. The 
> easiest way to check the pumps is to disconnect the input line at the fuel 
> distributor and have someone turn on the ignition for a second. You should 
> get a really healthy stream of fuel. As I recall, the main pump operates at 
> around 50psi, give or take. 
> We're reaching for straws at this point, so the more you check that looks 
> correct, that's fewer possibilities to deal with. 
>
> ~Holland
> On Mar 1, 2016 10:15, "Larry Velez" <la...@sinu.com > wrote:
>
>> I just checked and Marren is still in business and still rebuilding 
>> injectors of all ages: 
>>
>>  
>>
>> https://www.injector.com/ 
>>
>>  
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/MarrenFuelInjection/ 
>>
>>  
>>
>> -Larry
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:* mk2...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
>> mk2...@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *Holland Phillips
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 1, 2016 12:56 PM
>> *To:* mk2...@googlegroups.com 
>> *Subject:* Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?
>>
>>  
>>
>> I agree with you Chad. At this point, I would perform a compression test. 
>> If that looks good, then I'm at a loss as to where to go next. Maybe look 
>> at the injectors. It's probably easier and cheaper to try and find some 
>> used, hopefully known good injectors, even if it's only one. Then you could 
>> swap them one at a time and see if you find a bad one. There are a couple 
>> of companies that do balancing and blueprinting of Motronic injectors. I 
>> had mine done by Marren Motorsports back in the mid '90's, so I don't know 
>> if they're still in business. They could perform just testing to check for 
>> flow and pattern.
>> Beyond that, I just don't know. 
>>
>> ~Holland
>>
>> On Feb 29, 2016 18:21, "Chad Rebuck" <chadr...@gmail.com > 
>> wrote:
>>
>> The key in the cam gear is only there for the alignment until the bolt is 
>> tightened. It doesn't really hold the cam gear in place once the bolt is 
>> tightened.  Same for the crank pulley too.  The key can break if the bolt 
>> gets loose enough for it to turn.  
>>
>> I'm just curious how the engine sounds as you said it ran smoother for a 
>> short while when you opened up the throttle.
>>
>> I'm ab

Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

well i capped off one hole with a bolt/washer and the other with a thick 
plate and gasket.  turned the key once to hear the pump prime and then 
tried to start the car and it started right up and idled a bit less than 
900 rpm i think.

wow do i feel stupid.  

i got various little things to fix after poking around but my next problem 
is the cat/02 sensor.  i'm going to start fresh with my new cat and 02 
sensor at this point.  i assumed the wiring was ok but noticed some 
previous owner electrical tape and there are numerous wires tied together 
into a bundle thats hooking up to a ground on the passenger firewall.  this 
includes a single wire that is zip tied to the outside of the loom coming 
from the drivers side.  halfway it turns from black to brown with vw 
plastic connectors.

seems a little goofy at face value to have a single wire shoot all the way 
over there for ground right where all those wires meet. i have to look 
closer but i think something is screwed up if im reading right the 2nd 02 
sensor connector is a heater wire NOT ground?  the other harness with 2 
white wires goes into the loom.

i have a feeling car isn't even getting a signal from 02 sensor so i need 
to get that straight before installing new one.

i had the distributor at the old setups marks, i will have to time it 
tomorrow i couldn't actually see the marks well when trying the timing 
light in the dark tonight.  car runs and is revving out with the stock 
chip/cams, etc. but i noticed right away when i stab the throttle and it 
comes off the idle switch there was a slight gurgle and then it revs out 
but is reacting to pedal.   i'm hoping it needs to be timed and that will 
help.  

On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 at 7:56:36 PM UTC-7, damac2004 wrote:
>
> oh boy i am feeling stupid and think i have found the smoking gun here.
>
> is it possible that having 2 open holes on the back of the intake manifold 
> made the car act this way?
>
> this is not a california chasis so no egr stuff.  when i pulled the euro 
> manifold one hole had a bolt stuck through it with rtv and another hole was 
> held by bolts and gasket.
>
> when i was transferring everything over to the stock manifold i remember 
> poking down the hole with brake cleaner hose and hit what i thought was 
> solid wall on each.  at the time never seeing egr stuff assumed it maybe 
> would be drilled out for a car that needed that hardware.
>
> i had filled the holes up with brake cleaner with that side up and don't 
> think i paid close enough attention so this whole time it was installed on 
> the car like that.
>
> tonight as i went to transfer the old parts back on as my last hope effort 
> i noticed some leakage when spraying brake cleaner and a light bulb went 
> off.  so with those holes up if i spray one hole it fills the other hole 
> up.  if you leave the manifold sit the level of fluid just sits there. 
>  when i went to tilt sideways one way nothing happened but leaking out the 
> top.  when i tilted the other way 2 of the runners leaked the fluid out.
>
> i don't know these cars at all.  since the car wasn't running right i 
> never wanted to let it run long since it wasn't acting like a real car.  my 
> mom was watching and said i see some smoke and it sounds funny but of 
> course i told her its just stuff burning off and that it wasn't running 
> right.  couldn't really take a chance to look or feel closer.
>
> i have seen people mention these cars can run crappy with vac leaks and 
> they don't run without the intake tubes attached?  i'm hoping this is what 
> it was.  going to make some block off plates and gasket to seal those 2 
> holes up tight and then install all the old parts on it and hope like magic 
> its back to normal and then i can smog it.
>
> On Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 10:41:38 AM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
>>
>> I just thought of something. Any chance the fuel in the tank could be 
>> contaminated? Since I think you said you're in California, the fuel here is 
>> probably the worst in the U.S.. With the ethanol and other crazy additives 
>> that's in it, it has an extremely short shelf life. 
>> An other thing, I wonder how the fuel pumps are? If either the main or 
>> transfer pump aren't healthy, that can cause weird running problems. The 
>> easiest way to check the pumps is to disconnect the input line at the fuel 
>> distributor and have someone turn on the ignition for a second. You should 
>> get a really healthy stream of fuel. As I recall, the main pump operates at 
>> around 50psi, give or take. 
>> We're reaching for straws at this point, so the more you check that looks 
>> correct, that's fewer possibilities to deal with. 
>>
>> ~Holland
>> On Mar 1, 2016 10:15, "Larry Velez" <la...@si

[mk2-16v] Re: how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

anybody know how long it should take to throw a code?  i just warmed the 
car up one cycle on the driveway and it didn't throw any codes after, i'm 
guessing i have to go take it on a nasty drive?

i am close to taking it in for smog.  i had to go back and trace wires, 
etc. and fix previous owner crap.  i was worried about the moving timing 
light so i got another distributor, cap, rotor and wires with the #4 sensor 
that i didn't have, and the car still wanders with the light making it hard 
for me to get exact :(  i tried to leave it in a happy spot based on sound.

it turns out i have 2 knock sensors attached to the block.  #1 inbetween 1 
and 2 cylinders.  then #2 between 2 and 3!!!  i'm guessing this is 
incorrect no matter the engine and either it gets one over on the left 
side, or a second one to the right of the breather?  this is probably going 
to confused the car if i leave it as is?

they had #2 sensor hooked up correctly to the harness.  but they hooked #1 
up to the ignition reference sensor from #4 spark plug, and they cut the 
harness side of #1 knock sensor.  that damn car really did run great to me, 
it was faster then than it is now, just a bit more lumpy at idle.  so that 
is with the screwed up sensors and no 02 sensor hooked up.  it wasn't 
getting good mileage and stunk though.  i can't imagine that car being some 
kind of "limp mode"  if thats supposed to effect performance.

if the car is basically working ok i shouldn't worry about leaving the 
knock sensor #2 hooked up right?  its just tricking it into thinking its 
coming from inbetween 3 and 4?  would hate to ruin something, i was 
planning on pounding on the car tomorrow and hopefully take into smog on 
monday. 

thanks!

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Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

sorry i think the egr system attaches to the holes i am talking about.  and 
i just dumped water down the runners and confirmed that the 2 big holes are 
open to the intake runners.  so one picture is the euro intake and the 
holes are so open you can look and see through.  stock manifold isn't like 
that but those holes are linked and channel.


<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SL1M_Lo3RlY/VuopwZoKfpI/ANY/6DKq4fyWAqAfx-XU5Y09r-F2UviPbzX6A/s1600/IMG_0564.JPG>

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1Yss8rUhSew/Vuopyi3GaaI/ANc/VBUq_33Op4AiGbF0K4JkrRsfuAwqFWrug/s1600/IMG_0565.JPG>




On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 at 8:05:45 PM UTC-7, chadrebuck wrote:
>
> I'm not following the description too well but any opening in the intake 
> manifold that allows air to bypass the air meter and fuel distributor is no 
> good. You able to send any picture?
> On Mar 16, 2016 10:56 PM, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net > 
> wrote:
>
>> oh boy i am feeling stupid and think i have found the smoking gun here.
>>
>> is it possible that having 2 open holes on the back of the intake 
>> manifold made the car act this way?
>>
>> this is not a california chasis so no egr stuff.  when i pulled the euro 
>> manifold one hole had a bolt stuck through it with rtv and another hole was 
>> held by bolts and gasket.
>>
>> when i was transferring everything over to the stock manifold i remember 
>> poking down the hole with brake cleaner hose and hit what i thought was 
>> solid wall on each.  at the time never seeing egr stuff assumed it maybe 
>> would be drilled out for a car that needed that hardware.
>>
>> i had filled the holes up with brake cleaner with that side up and don't 
>> think i paid close enough attention so this whole time it was installed on 
>> the car like that.
>>
>> tonight as i went to transfer the old parts back on as my last hope 
>> effort i noticed some leakage when spraying brake cleaner and a light bulb 
>> went off.  so with those holes up if i spray one hole it fills the other 
>> hole up.  if you leave the manifold sit the level of fluid just sits there. 
>>  when i went to tilt sideways one way nothing happened but leaking out the 
>> top.  when i tilted the other way 2 of the runners leaked the fluid out.
>>
>> i don't know these cars at all.  since the car wasn't running right i 
>> never wanted to let it run long since it wasn't acting like a real car.  my 
>> mom was watching and said i see some smoke and it sounds funny but of 
>> course i told her its just stuff burning off and that it wasn't running 
>> right.  couldn't really take a chance to look or feel closer.
>>
>> i have seen people mention these cars can run crappy with vac leaks and 
>> they don't run without the intake tubes attached?  i'm hoping this is what 
>> it was.  going to make some block off plates and gasket to seal those 2 
>> holes up tight and then install all the old parts on it and hope like magic 
>> its back to normal and then i can smog it.
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 10:41:38 AM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
>>>
>>> I just thought of something. Any chance the fuel in the tank could be 
>>> contaminated? Since I think you said you're in California, the fuel here is 
>>> probably the worst in the U.S.. With the ethanol and other crazy additives 
>>> that's in it, it has an extremely short shelf life. 
>>> An other thing, I wonder how the fuel pumps are? If either the main or 
>>> transfer pump aren't healthy, that can cause weird running problems. The 
>>> easiest way to check the pumps is to disconnect the input line at the fuel 
>>> distributor and have someone turn on the ignition for a second. You should 
>>> get a really healthy stream of fuel. As I recall, the main pump operates at 
>>> around 50psi, give or take. 
>>> We're reaching for straws at this point, so the more you check that 
>>> looks correct, that's fewer possibilities to deal with. 
>>>
>>> ~Holland
>>> On Mar 1, 2016 10:15, "Larry Velez" <la...@sinu.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just checked and Marren is still in business and still rebuilding 
>>>> injectors of all ages: 
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> https://www.injector.com/ 
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> https://www.facebook.com/MarrenFuelInjection/ 
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> -Larry
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> *From:* mk2...@googlegroups.com [mailto:m

Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

im pretty sure i have 2 knock sensors?  im attaching a picture of what i 
uncovered from electrical tape.  looks like a brown wire covered with black 
that goes to top connector from drivers side, its duct taped along i guess 
stock loom.  i assumed ground at first but wonder if this could be the 02 
sensor signal wire?

and just what i thought.  i have a black ground wire coming from firewall 
gong to the loom.  but an area is all cut away with exposed wiring.  the 
wire from outside of loom was wrapped into this exposed ground bundle WITH 
the 02 sensor signal wire???

this is incorrect right?  ground wire is no the same as signal wire for 02 
sensor it should make an isolated run somewhere?

whats wierd is all the wires but the loose one outside of loom seem to be 
fused together.  i can't detect solder and the wires seem to be attached 
firmly inside the black cover.  i can't even pull them apart, i would have 
to cut which makes me think it was stock because i don't see breaks further 
down the line.

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dxq5cmIRnac/Vu2jZVj8m9I/AN0/6KQ2liGE3owz3akNdZZU2l2Z-LO6_usig/s1600/IMG_0571.JPG>


On Saturday, March 19, 2016 at 10:29:29 AM UTC-7, stevenarguello wrote:
>
> On a typical 1.8 CIS-E the O2 signal wire is shielded and green to an 
> insulated male spade connector and there are 2 white heater wires into a 
> duplex VW connector. I’m not sure how big of a deal the knock sensor issue 
> that you’re going to have is. Your Motronic ECU is going to want 2 knock 
> sensor signals, I think it uses one as a baseline reference and the other 
> adjusts the spark timing. The 1.8 block only accepts one knock sensor.
>
> On Mar 19, 2016, at 11:31 AM, 'Matthew Yip' via MK2-16v <
> mk2...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
> This reminds me of a friend who adamantly stuck to the theory that VW and 
> Audi engines are the same because of the engine code. Instead of moving the 
> accessories, he installed the complete 1.8t from a VW into an Audi TT. 
>
> At start-up, it fired immediately but idled at 2000 rpms. Why?  Because VW 
> had a 1" fitting underneath the manifold that Audi doesn't use. The moral 
> is to never assume and always check the obvious since the obvious isn't 
> always obvious 
>
> - Matthew -
>
> On Mar 19, 2016, at 11:03, Holland Phillips <holland...@gmail.com 
> > wrote:
>
> Progress! That's awesome! I don't remember the wire colors anymore, but 
> yes, one of the wires to the O2 sensor is the heater wire. Hopefully, once 
> you set the timing, it will improve things. However, until you get the O2 
> sensor hooked up correctly, it isn't going to run right. But at least 
> you've resolved a lot of your issues. I'm happy for you. 
>
> ~Holland
> On Mar 19, 2016 01:38, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net > 
> wrote:
>
> well i capped off one hole with a bolt/washer and the other with a thick 
> plate and gasket.  turned the key once to hear the pump prime and then 
> tried to start the car and it started right up and idled a bit less than 
> 900 rpm i think.
>
> wow do i feel stupid.  
>
> i got various little things to fix after poking around but my next problem 
> is the cat/02 sensor.  i'm going to start fresh with my new cat and 02 
> sensor at this point.  i assumed the wiring was ok but noticed some 
> previous owner electrical tape and there are numerous wires tied together 
> into a bundle thats hooking up to a ground on the passenger firewall.  this 
> includes a single wire that is zip tied to the outside of the loom coming 
> from the drivers side.  halfway it turns from black to brown with vw 
> plastic connectors.
>
> seems a little goofy at face value to have a single wire shoot all the way 
> over there for ground right where all those wires meet. i have to look 
> closer but i think something is screwed up if im reading right the 2nd 02 
> sensor connector is a heater wire NOT ground?  the other harness with 2 
> white wires goes into the loom.
>
> i have a feeling car isn't even getting a signal from 02 sensor so i need 
> to get that straight before installing new one.
>
> i had the distributor at the old setups marks, i will have to time it 
> tomorrow i couldn't actually see the marks well when trying the timing 
> light in the dark tonight.  car runs and is revving out with the stock 
> chip/cams, etc. but i noticed right away when i stab the throttle and it 
> comes off the idle switch there was a slight gurgle and then it revs out 
> but is reacting to pedal.   i'm hoping it needs to be timed and that will 
> help.  
>
> On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 at 7:56:36 PM UTC-7, damac2004 wrote:
>
> oh boy i am feeling stupid and think i have found the smoking gun here.
>
> is it possible that

Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

hate to bug people but i'm just tidying things up with a new 02 sensor and 
want to make sure before i start it up and time it.  i pulled the whole 
harness that goes to the ecu just to make sure.  i do only have the 1 knock 
sensor.  don't see any special shielded wiring.

the 02 harness side  has a black ground going to firewall that goes to the 
ecu.  a small area is cleanly exposing wires and the 02 sensor signal wire 
connector is fused to this ground leg.  no sign of solder or cuts, looks 
original to me?

i also tried looking up my car in the bently and it matches a later gti 91 
chasis according to them.  it shows the ground location over there on 
firewall rather than the engine block.

i have the 2 white wires from 02 sensor going to stock connectors and their 
colored wires into the ecu harness. 

bently shows the ground leg black wire and the 02 sensor connector black 
wire making a left turn into that black ground wire.

so it seems it is wired correctly?   

i just don't understand how 02 sensors work, not sure if that black wire is 
a ground wire on all car applications.

On Saturday, March 19, 2016 at 1:24:08 PM UTC-7, stevenarguello wrote:
>
>  The wire you’re touching looks like the O2 signal. In your case it looks 
> like the shield might have been pulled off and ran to ground. (That’s a 
> guess, could be like that from the factory) The red and yellowish (sorry, 
> I’m a little color blind) are the O2 heater. The 2 whites and the lead with 
> the electrical tape go to the sensor. 
> I think.
>
> There’s only one mounting point for a knock sensor on the 1.8, the 2.0 has 
> 2. If you have 2 and they’re both mounted to the block then I’d say that 
> the block is 2.0. I know we’ve gone back and forth on this, but I had the 
> exact opposite happen to me my ’88 had a 2.0 (the PO didn’t know) I found 
> out when I discovered the second KS.
>
> On Mar 19, 2016, at 3:20 PM, Holland Phillips <holland...@gmail.com 
> > wrote:
>
> As Steve mentioned, the O2 sensor signal wire is shielded, similar to a 
> coaxial cable. It's basically a regular insulated braided copper wire of 
> about 20 gauge, with a braided shield covering it.
>
> ~Holland
> On Mar 19, 2016 12:13, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net > 
> wrote:
>
> im pretty sure i have 2 knock sensors?  im attaching a picture of what i 
> uncovered from electrical tape.  looks like a brown wire covered with black 
> that goes to top connector from drivers side, its duct taped along i guess 
> stock loom.  i assumed ground at first but wonder if this could be the 02 
> sensor signal wire?
>
> and just what i thought.  i have a black ground wire coming from firewall 
> gong to the loom.  but an area is all cut away with exposed wiring.  the 
> wire from outside of loom was wrapped into this exposed ground bundle WITH 
> the 02 sensor signal wire???
>
> this is incorrect right?  ground wire is no the same as signal wire for 02 
> sensor it should make an isolated run somewhere?
>
> whats wierd is all the wires but the loose one outside of loom seem to be 
> fused together.  i can't detect solder and the wires seem to be attached 
> firmly inside the black cover.  i can't even pull them apart, i would have 
> to cut which makes me think it was stock because i don't see breaks further 
> down the line.
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dxq5cmIRnac/Vu2jZVj8m9I/AN0/6KQ2liGE3owz3akNdZZU2l2Z-LO6_usig/s1600/IMG_0571.JPG>
>
>
> On Saturday, March 19, 2016 at 10:29:29 AM UTC-7, stevenarguello wrote:
>
> On a typical 1.8 CIS-E the O2 signal wire is shielded and green to an 
> insulated male spade connector and there are 2 white heater wires into a 
> duplex VW connector. I’m not sure how big of a deal the knock sensor issue 
> that you’re going to have is. Your Motronic ECU is going to want 2 knock 
> sensor signals, I think it uses one as a baseline reference and the other 
> adjusts the spark timing. The 1.8 block only accepts one knock sensor.
>
> On Mar 19, 2016, at 11:31 AM, 'Matthew Yip' via MK2-16v <
> mk2...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> This reminds me of a friend who adamantly stuck to the theory that VW and 
> Audi engines are the same because of the engine code. Instead of moving the 
> accessories, he installed the complete 1.8t from a VW into an Audi TT. 
>
> At start-up, it fired immediately but idled at 2000 rpms. Why?  Because VW 
> had a 1" fitting underneath the manifold that Audi doesn't use. The moral 
> is to never assume and always check the obvious since the obvious isn't 
> always obvious 
>
> - Matthew -
>
> On Mar 19, 2016, at 11:03, Holland Phillips <holland...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Progress! That's awesome! I don't remember the wire colors any

Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

hmm, i see nothing in my cluster about this light or a seperate switch in 
the dash.  i see motronic has basic codes you can check with jumper and led 
with harness under shift boot.  i will check my car tomorrow for that and 
see what happens.

i tightened the distributor bolts and no go, timing light still jumps 
around.  i tried various spots on the spark plug wire no change.  i tried 
hooking up the timing light to the - post on coil to start like the bently 
talks about, this would illimunate light on my gun but it wouldn't flash, 
so i used the instructions for my gun and put it on the negative battery 
post?

i'm not sure what to do here.  i hate to spend all that $$$ on a new one 
for no reason.

i got antsy and took the car out for a hard drive and it was definately a 
different experience than before.  not sure if im crazy or if the cams, 
chip and intake could have made such a difference?  

now i have a cat on it and the car is much quiter walking around it at 
idle.  the engine bay specifically, and so much so when driving i thought 
the car died multiple times when coming to a stop.  to my ear i feel there 
is less crackling out the exhaust pipe, but it seems to me i hear and feel 
a new drone right under me when just coming off idle.  i would have called 
it a hesitation and gurgle but i noticed it isn't directly related to the 
throttle when pusing it to go.  on that front the car seems to react as 
good as ever without stumbling on the gas.  that drone seems to go away 
when revving it out, and will come back at times when letting off the 
throttle.  the car was always too loud for my liking when driving it but i 
don't really care at this point, i will get rid of it later anyway.

i only drove for like 20 minutes and when i came back the car stunk.  not 
like raw gas smell, i wonder if its the cat breaking in?  of course they 
mention nothing about it.

i am hoping i am on the home stretch here.  i am tempted to just take it 
into smog but i have to assume my timing isn't perfect and am afraid of 
failing and having to go back :( 

only issue i noticed again is i turned the car off and it restarted right 
away.  when i went out for the drive, maybe an hour after previously 
running the car had no life starting the first crank.  second crank it 
sounded like it stumbled at the end.  third crank it started and idled on 
its own.  so is it safe to assume i have a problem with "cold" starting? 
 it didn't use to act like this, it always showed signs of life.

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 7:11:16 PM UTC-7, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> You're correct, there is no vacuum line attached to the ecu. But there is 
> definitely something that is supposed to be disconnected when setting base 
> timing. Since your chassis isn't a California car, there is probably a lot 
> of things that are different. Until the OBD2 spec came into effect in, I 
> think, '96, most new vehicles sold in the U.S. came in what was termed "49 
> state"  versions, and California versions. Thanks CARB & EPA. Now almost 
> all vehicles are "world spec", since the EU has become as emissions aware 
> as the U.S. has been for decades. They've even gone further with the 
> introduction of pedestrian accident requirements for front bumbers, which I 
> think the U.S. has or will be adopting. 
>
> ~Holland
> On Mar 24, 2016 18:53, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net > 
> wrote:
>
> the 2.0 im shaft fit into my block but the matching big gear wouldn't fit 
> in the smaller hole on the block that mates with the oil pump so i still 
> don't understand whats going on with this, but if i pass smog i won't care 
> :)
>
> unless i am missing something all i see for timing this car is to heat it 
> up with a fan cycle and go.  no disconnecting the cts or revving like some 
> others???  i don't have any vacuum line on my ecu either.
>
> bently has a blurb that distributor bearings might be messed up if timing 
> wanders, ugh.  maybe i had the bolts too loose i will go out and try and 
> tighten them and see.
>
> i see no engine light in my cluster either and the last smog guy i went to 
> was asking me where it was!!!  its a non california car and i won't be 
> going back to that guy.
>
> On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 5:52:49 PM UTC-7, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> Two knock sensors means 2.0/9A block.
> On the timing issue, there is something that needs to be disconnected 
> prior to using a timing light. I can't remember what exactly it is, but I 
> think it's a vacuum line somewhere. Again, that information is in the 
> Bentley. Once the whatever is disconnected, the timing should be steady 
> when viewed with the timing light.
> The timing advance on Motronic cars is controlled by the ECU, which is why 
> initial setting of the timing requires disconnecting whateve

Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

yes i bought a new bosch 02 sensor.  i have a feeling when somebody did a 
engine swap they cut the 2nd knock sensor harness.  i do see a leg cut 
clean at the end of the drivers side loom with a white, black and blue 
wire.  haven't looked it up in bently yet, wouldn't surprise me if that is 
it.

now i'm confused on my wiring again, i wish i could see pictures of 
somebodies wiring in this area.

i looked at the bently and don't really understand it, it just looks like 
the firewall ground is connecting to the 02 sensor black shielded wire with 
a solid line in the schematic so i thought they were connected like mine 
which are fused together.  my connector doesn't look like special wire. 
 but it and that main ground run are all definately exposed and touching 
each other.



On Wednesday, March 23, 2016 at 5:21:42 PM UTC-7, stevenarguello wrote:
>
> So you bought a new 3wire O2 sensor? If so, the black is the signal not 
> the ground. (The sensor is grounded through the exhaust?) 
> After the orange connector the signal wire back to the ecu is a little 
> thicker because it's a coaxial cable, it has a braided shield around the 
> signal wire. This shield has a ground and I believe that's the one going to 
> the firewall. That's why they look like 2 wires fused into 1. 
> (I think, my loom is different.) If I'm way off, I hope someone will let 
> him and me know. 
>
> There should be an extra female connector for the 2nd knock sensor, unless 
> they cut it off. 
>
>
> On Mar 23, 2016, at 6:30 PM, damac2004 <dama...@sbcglobal.net 
> > wrote:
>
> hate to bug people but i'm just tidying things up with a new 02 sensor and 
> want to make sure before i start it up and time it.  i pulled the whole 
> harness that goes to the ecu just to make sure.  i do only have the 1 knock 
> sensor.  don't see any special shielded wiring.
>
> the 02 harness side  has a black ground going to firewall that goes to the 
> ecu.  a small area is cleanly exposing wires and the 02 sensor signal wire 
> connector is fused to this ground leg.  no sign of solder or cuts, looks 
> original to me?
>
> i also tried looking up my car in the bently and it matches a later gti 91 
> chasis according to them.  it shows the ground location over there on 
> firewall rather than the engine block.
>
> i have the 2 white wires from 02 sensor going to stock connectors and 
> their colored wires into the ecu harness. 
>
> bently shows the ground leg black wire and the 02 sensor connector black 
> wire making a left turn into that black ground wire.
>
> so it seems it is wired correctly?   
>
> i just don't understand how 02 sensors work, not sure if that black wire 
> is a ground wire on all car applications.
>
> On Saturday, March 19, 2016 at 1:24:08 PM UTC-7, stevenarguello wrote:
>
>  The wire you’re touching looks like the O2 signal. In your case it looks 
> like the shield might have been pulled off and ran to ground. (That’s a 
> guess, could be like that from the factory) The red and yellowish (sorry, 
> I’m a little color blind) are the O2 heater. The 2 whites and the lead with 
> the electrical tape go to the sensor. 
> I think.
>
> There’s only one mounting point for a knock sensor on the 1.8, the 2.0 has 
> 2. If you have 2 and they’re both mounted to the block then I’d say that 
> the block is 2.0. I know we’ve gone back and forth on this, but I had the 
> exact opposite happen to me my ’88 had a 2.0 (the PO didn’t know) I found 
> out when I discovered the second KS.
>
> On Mar 19, 2016, at 3:20 PM, Holland Phillips <holland...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
> As Steve mentioned, the O2 sensor signal wire is shielded, similar to a 
> coaxial cable. It's basically a regular insulated braided copper wire of 
> about 20 gauge, with a braided shield covering it.
>
> ~Holland
> On Mar 19, 2016 12:13, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> im pretty sure i have 2 knock sensors?  im attaching a picture of what i 
> uncovered from electrical tape.  looks like a brown wire covered with black 
> that goes to top connector from drivers side, its duct taped along i guess 
> stock loom.  i assumed ground at first but wonder if this could be the 02 
> sensor signal wire?
>
> and just what i thought.  i have a black ground wire coming from firewall 
> gong to the loom.  but an area is all cut away with exposed wiring.  the 
> wire from outside of loom was wrapped into this exposed ground bundle WITH 
> the 02 sensor signal wire???
>
> this is incorrect right?  ground wire is no the same as signal wire for 02 
> sensor it should make an isolated run somewhere?
>
> whats wierd is all the wires but the loose one outside of loom seem to be 
> fused together.  i can't detect sold

Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

the 2.0 im shaft fit into my block but the matching big gear wouldn't fit 
in the smaller hole on the block that mates with the oil pump so i still 
don't understand whats going on with this, but if i pass smog i won't care 
:)

unless i am missing something all i see for timing this car is to heat it 
up with a fan cycle and go.  no disconnecting the cts or revving like some 
others???  i don't have any vacuum line on my ecu either.

bently has a blurb that distributor bearings might be messed up if timing 
wanders, ugh.  maybe i had the bolts too loose i will go out and try and 
tighten them and see.

i see no engine light in my cluster either and the last smog guy i went to 
was asking me where it was!!!  its a non california car and i won't be 
going back to that guy.

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 5:52:49 PM UTC-7, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> Two knock sensors means 2.0/9A block.
> On the timing issue, there is something that needs to be disconnected 
> prior to using a timing light. I can't remember what exactly it is, but I 
> think it's a vacuum line somewhere. Again, that information is in the 
> Bentley. Once the whatever is disconnected, the timing should be steady 
> when viewed with the timing light.
> The timing advance on Motronic cars is controlled by the ECU, which is why 
> initial setting of the timing requires disconnecting whatever it is the 
> Bentley tells you. They do connect a timing sensor to the number one 
> cylinder spark plug lead when running an emissions test in California. 
> Don't know if it's just for reference to the machine, or if they can 
> actually fail you if it's out of spec.
>
> ~Holland
> On Mar 24, 2016 17:04, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net > 
> wrote:
>
> ok so ground showed no continuity to that sensor wire.  it does with pin 7 
> i believe on the ecu connector,  so i guess i am good.  i kept getting 
> confused because people were talking about an insulated wire and im 
> thinking a nasty cable like for tv.  when looking these guys over as is, 
> they don't seem special looking to me.
>
> also i looked over the car again and i do have 2 knock sensors.  they are 
> on the front of the block close to each, closer to cylinder #1.  they each 
> attach to a harness connector  that goes into the loom and to the ecu.  so 
> if i remember right people said 1.8 blocks don't have 2?  yet i couldn't 
> fit the larger im shaft gear into this block that mates to the oil pump it 
> had the smaller block off plate hole?  so still not sure what i have.  in 
> included a picture down below.  hopefully i won't need to care.
>
> here is a link to video of my first cold startup.   for some reason it 
> took like 5 times to start like there was no gas, fuel pump was making 
> noise.  then it started right up.  can anybody tell if it sounds ok?  i am 
> now having an issue with timing the car.  i tried cold and after a warmup 
> cycle and i cannot get the pointer to stay still with the light on?  it 
> kind of lines up with the diamond and then it will shoot off a little bit 
> off one way or the other.  if i go further either way from where it is now, 
> when it shoots off it tends to go in that direction more.  i tried 
> connecting the lead near the distributor cap and at the head.  it seems to 
> like this spot the best but im not sure how accurate it is.  im wondering 
> what impact this could have on smog if im a little off.  also not sure if 
> this means my car is having troubles or if my timing light is messed up.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB9yXn61pS8
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ld5z8T1qMBU/VvSAHUYZQFI/AOw/TN6T8t9LDnYh-Ek6Nwhyij9PhtpIeLAEQ/s1600/IMG_0583.JPG>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 10:32:11 AM UTC-7, stevenarguello wrote:
>
> I think that your loom is good, I wouldn’t mess with it anymore. The 
> Bentley shows a circle around the signal wire where that ground meets the 
> O2 signal wire instead of a splice and that’s what you have.  Maybe check 
> to be sure that there’s no continuity between the ground and the O2 signal 
> spade connector. 
>
>
> On Mar 24, 2016, at 10:48 AM, Holland Phillips <holland...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
> The Motronic ECU does store codes. Since the OBD1 spec didn't go into 
> effect until '95, code readers don't work on these cars. Connecting two 
> leads to the proper positions of the connectors under the shifter boot and 
> connecting a momentary switch to the other ends of the two leads, by using 
> the switch to short the leads for a few seconds, the codes are shown by the 
> check engine light flashing in various sequences. The Bentley explains all 
> this and has a chart showing what the various codes indicate. I don't 
> remember exactly w

Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

sorry just to make sure we are on the same page.  you are saying the 02 
sensor black connector is going into the loom to the ecu.  and the ground 
wire attached to the firewall is loose and surrounding the 02 sensor wire 
along the same path?  i am paranoid and want to see for myself and am 
tempted to cut further upstream to see.

i thought i read about the codes and bought a cord on ebay to convert from 
a little plug underneath the shifter boot i believe that goes to an obd 
reader?  i will try it if i read right after i get the sucker going, had to 
rewire the main power and grounds.  many wires have fallen to pieces just 
from touching them.  scary stuff now that i look closer.

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 12:40:03 AM UTC-7, stevenarguello wrote:
>
> The picture looks just like what I thought it would, the signal wire is 
> the one with the connector, the one going to the ground is the shield. I 
> think that you're good to go. 
> I would have shown you my loom, but it's very different and I thought it'd 
> make things more confusing. 
>
> Fire it up. 
>
> One last thing, I'm pretty sure that your Motronic ecu has codes. I'm not 
> sure how easy they are to read or if they help at all. 
>
> On Mar 24, 2016, at 1:29 AM, damac2004 <dama...@sbcglobal.net 
> > wrote:
>
>
>
> i forgot to add this picture.  maybe i need to look closer but it looked 
> like the connector wire is exposed and touching that main ground leg.  is 
> it possible the connector has its own cover and is running inside inside 
> the ground run?  i can try and cut some back and look at it.  i was 
> expecting a special looking wire, my connector wire doesn't look special?
>
>
> i don't really understand how to read the bently.  this is the only wire i 
> see connected in the 20 pages to the firewall ground on that side.  it 
> doesn't show a straight run to the control unit but it has a solid line 
> crossing into the shielded wire icon on the 02 sensor connected leg.  i 
> just assumed they were connected or else the ground wire from firewall side 
> would go nowhere?
>
>
> is this a pretty common harness on other gas vw's of the same era?  i wish 
> i could see somebodies stock harness with pictures, maybe i can find one at 
> picknpull.
>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-oSf6Tvpz5Xg/VvN7QYR455I/AOU/FVftHFgDN0AaCg98N1jFVFSj67xKPaOjw/s1600/IMG_0575.JPG>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 23, 2016 at 5:21:42 PM UTC-7, stevenarguello wrote:
>
> So you bought a new 3wire O2 sensor? If so, the black is the signal not 
> the ground. (The sensor is grounded through the exhaust?) 
> After the orange connector the signal wire back to the ecu is a little 
> thicker because it's a coaxial cable, it has a braided shield around the 
> signal wire. This shield has a ground and I believe that's the one going to 
> the firewall. That's why they look like 2 wires fused into 1. 
> (I think, my loom is different.) If I'm way off, I hope someone will let 
> him and me know. 
>
> There should be an extra female connector for the 2nd knock sensor, unless 
> they cut it off. 
>
>
> On Mar 23, 2016, at 6:30 PM, damac2004 <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> hate to bug people but i'm just tidying things up with a new 02 sensor and 
> want to make sure before i start it up and time it.  i pulled the whole 
> harness that goes to the ecu just to make sure.  i do only have the 1 knock 
> sensor.  don't see any special shielded wiring.
>
> the 02 harness side  has a black ground going to firewall that goes to the 
> ecu.  a small area is cleanly exposing wires and the 02 sensor signal wire 
> connector is fused to this ground leg.  no sign of solder or cuts, looks 
> original to me?
>
> i also tried looking up my car in the bently and it matches a later gti 91 
> chasis according to them.  it shows the ground location over there on 
> firewall rather than the engine block.
>
> i have the 2 white wires from 02 sensor going to stock connectors and 
> their colored wires into the ecu harness. 
>
> bently shows the ground leg black wire and the 02 sensor connector black 
> wire making a left turn into that black ground wire.
>
> so it seems it is wired correctly?   
>
> i just don't understand how 02 sensors work, not sure if that black wire 
> is a ground wire on all car applications.
>
> On Saturday, March 19, 2016 at 1:24:08 PM UTC-7, stevenarguello wrote:
>
>  The wire you’re touching looks like the O2 signal. In your case it looks 
> like the shield might have been pulled off and ran to ground. (That’s a 
> guess, could be like that from the factory) The red and yellowish (sorry, 
> I’m a little color blind) are the O2 heater. The 2 whites and the lead with 
>

Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

ok so ground showed no continuity to that sensor wire.  it does with pin 7 
i believe on the ecu connector,  so i guess i am good.  i kept getting 
confused because people were talking about an insulated wire and im 
thinking a nasty cable like for tv.  when looking these guys over as is, 
they don't seem special looking to me.

also i looked over the car again and i do have 2 knock sensors.  they are 
on the front of the block close to each, closer to cylinder #1.  they each 
attach to a harness connector  that goes into the loom and to the ecu.  so 
if i remember right people said 1.8 blocks don't have 2?  yet i couldn't 
fit the larger im shaft gear into this block that mates to the oil pump it 
had the smaller block off plate hole?  so still not sure what i have.  in 
included a picture down below.  hopefully i won't need to care.

here is a link to video of my first cold startup.   for some reason it took 
like 5 times to start like there was no gas, fuel pump was making noise. 
 then it started right up.  can anybody tell if it sounds ok?  i am now 
having an issue with timing the car.  i tried cold and after a warmup cycle 
and i cannot get the pointer to stay still with the light on?  it kind of 
lines up with the diamond and then it will shoot off a little bit off one 
way or the other.  if i go further either way from where it is now, when it 
shoots off it tends to go in that direction more.  i tried connecting the 
lead near the distributor cap and at the head.  it seems to like this spot 
the best but im not sure how accurate it is.  im wondering what impact this 
could have on smog if im a little off.  also not sure if this means my car 
is having troubles or if my timing light is messed up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB9yXn61pS8

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ld5z8T1qMBU/VvSAHUYZQFI/AOw/TN6T8t9LDnYh-Ek6Nwhyij9PhtpIeLAEQ/s1600/IMG_0583.JPG>




On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 10:32:11 AM UTC-7, stevenarguello wrote:
>
> I think that your loom is good, I wouldn’t mess with it anymore. The 
> Bentley shows a circle around the signal wire where that ground meets the 
> O2 signal wire instead of a splice and that’s what you have.  Maybe check 
> to be sure that there’s no continuity between the ground and the O2 signal 
> spade connector. 
>
>
> On Mar 24, 2016, at 10:48 AM, Holland Phillips <holland...@gmail.com 
> > wrote:
>
> The Motronic ECU does store codes. Since the OBD1 spec didn't go into 
> effect until '95, code readers don't work on these cars. Connecting two 
> leads to the proper positions of the connectors under the shifter boot and 
> connecting a momentary switch to the other ends of the two leads, by using 
> the switch to short the leads for a few seconds, the codes are shown by the 
> check engine light flashing in various sequences. The Bentley explains all 
> this and has a chart showing what the various codes indicate. I don't 
> remember exactly where in the Bentley this procedure is, but it's in there 
> somewhere.  
>
> ~Holland
> On Mar 24, 2016 1:17 AM, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net > 
> wrote:
>
> sorry just to make sure we are on the same page.  you are saying the 02 
> sensor black connector is going into the loom to the ecu.  and the ground 
> wire attached to the firewall is loose and surrounding the 02 sensor wire 
> along the same path?  i am paranoid and want to see for myself and am 
> tempted to cut further upstream to see.
>
> i thought i read about the codes and bought a cord on ebay to convert from 
> a little plug underneath the shifter boot i believe that goes to an obd 
> reader?  i will try it if i read right after i get the sucker going, had to 
> rewire the main power and grounds.  many wires have fallen to pieces just 
> from touching them.  scary stuff now that i look closer.
>
> On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 12:40:03 AM UTC-7, stevenarguello wrote:
>
> The picture looks just like what I thought it would, the signal wire is 
> the one with the connector, the one going to the ground is the shield. I 
> think that you're good to go. 
> I would have shown you my loom, but it's very different and I thought it'd 
> make things more confusing. 
>
> Fire it up. 
>
> One last thing, I'm pretty sure that your Motronic ecu has codes. I'm not 
> sure how easy they are to read or if they help at all. 
>
> On Mar 24, 2016, at 1:29 AM, damac2004 <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> i forgot to add this picture.  maybe i need to look closer but it looked 
> like the connector wire is exposed and touching that main ground leg.  is 
> it possible the connector has its own cover and is running inside inside 
> the ground run?  i can try and cut some back and look at it.  i was 
> expecting a special looking wire, my connector w

Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

no smog is required except on vehicle transfer into this county.  so i 
guess the same 90 day window applies, the car i got passed about 5 months 
before i got it and had a long list of other passes in california.

sadly i have been taken advantage of more than once by mechanics shops so i 
will have to do some research.  i have had the same problems with doctors 
it can be a sad selfish world.   im sure there is a good shop out there, i 
will just have to poke around i guess and travel more.  and maybe its 
better i go to a non repair station and insist on the pretest.

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 7:55:11 AM UTC-7, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> I'm confused. You just said you live in a small no smog county? I know 
> there used to be some counties in California that didn't require bi annual 
> smog tests, like Calaveras County. If you live in one of those counties, 
> why do you have to get a smog, or have the laws changed? And I think pre 
> testing is offered at the discretion of each smog station, or maybe it's 
> only offered by the test only stations. Since the test equipment is 
> connected directly to the DMV, the technician has to know how to run a pre 
> test without the results being automatically sent to the DMV. I used to 
> have to "buy" smogs for a couple of my vehicles because the were illegally 
> modified for performance purposes. Back in the '90's, it would cost me 
> about $50, but once they came out with the test equipment that's connected 
> to the DMV, most of the guys that would do that either got busted, or quit 
> doing it. The last time I had to get an illegal smog, back in 2012, it cost 
> me $250, and they had to use a "clean"  vehicle to run the test. It was all 
> very covert, and the guy was extremely paranoid and nervous about doing it. 
> This was in Santa Clara County.  
>
> ~Holland
> On Mar 31, 2016 11:21 PM, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net > 
> wrote:
>
> i could just tape the loom up where the wires are cut.  i have searched 
> vortex forums and it seems allot of people run without that plug sensor but 
> i can't find a definate on what the computer actually does.
>
> i don't know if its because im living in a no smog small county or what, 
> but i have had trouble already with the places in town.  i think i will 
> have to venture further away.  one told me i needed to get the check engine 
> light fixed because he couldn't find it and luckily he wouldn't even charge 
> me or start the test.  i told him what the book said and it being currently 
> smogged.  next place told me i need to pay for smog and if it fails they 
> will fix it and charge me nothing on a retest.  so they won't do a pre 
> test?  i specifically told them what i wanted to do and how im dealing with 
> this piece of crap.  i am guessing the shops can do what they want?  the 
> places in town don't even offer free retesting.
>
>
> On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 7:56:27 PM UTC-7, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> I've had concerns about the wires you found cut since you mentioned them. 
> In CA, on pre OBD cars, they look for hardware and check tail pipe. I had a 
> Euro intake on my car, and the port for the EYE valve wasn't machined, so I 
> just bolted the valve on and ran the wire back into the harness without 
> connecting it, and they never caught it. Those cut wires may be for the 
> reference sensor, and if the smog Nazis see them, they may fail you on that 
> alone. Plus, without a functioning reference sensor, I doubt the car will 
> run correctly, and that may be the reason your timing is jumping around. 
> Like I said before, at this point, I would find a smog station that offers 
> free retests and go for it. They will tell you what is not correct if it 
> fails. 
>
> ~Holland
> On Mar 31, 2016 19:27, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> holy cow i hope to have a success story soon but i am not quite there yet 
> for smog.  i went ahead and checked the codes and found i got an egr 
> error, igntion reference sender and knock sensor #1 bad wiring or sender.
>
> somebody told me i don't have a california ecu, does anybody know if all 
> ecu's would throw that egr even if on a non california car?  i don't think 
> i have to worry about it, just wondering.
>
> on the knock sensor both of mine are chipped up where the sensor bolts in, 
> one of them has no covering on the whole run of wire, just metal strands. 
>  just got a couple bosch new ones for cheap on ebay so will install those.
>
> the last one for the igntion reference sender brings up an issue i didn't 
> know i had.  my car has no sensor on #4 wire and i found no connector in my 
> harness but there is a run of 3 wires that was cut off.  does anybody know 
> if 

Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

holy cow i hope to have a success story soon but i am not quite there yet 
for smog.  i went ahead and checked the codes and found i got an egr 
error, igntion reference sender and knock sensor #1 bad wiring or sender.

somebody told me i don't have a california ecu, does anybody know if all 
ecu's would throw that egr even if on a non california car?  i don't think 
i have to worry about it, just wondering.

on the knock sensor both of mine are chipped up where the sensor bolts in, 
one of them has no covering on the whole run of wire, just metal strands. 
 just got a couple bosch new ones for cheap on ebay so will install those.

the last one for the igntion reference sender brings up an issue i didn't 
know i had.  my car has no sensor on #4 wire and i found no connector in my 
harness but there is a run of 3 wires that was cut off.  does anybody know 
if this will effect how the computer runs things?  i have read it both ways 
searching.  i never noticed a problem with the car before i touched it 
except it was stinky and didn't get good mileage.  i don't even care about 
this as long as i pass smog.

if i read right i also believe a car can have a 2 degree deviation from the 
stock timing specs so i think i might just take a chance with this car and 
set it as best as i can, even though the timing light jumps around.  i have 
talked with numerous people on each side of this issue as well.  some said 
their marks wandered, some said they don't.  hate to throw money at this 
car if i don't have to, but would enjoy making it right for the next guy 
when i get rid of it :)

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 5:52:49 PM UTC-7, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> Two knock sensors means 2.0/9A block.
> On the timing issue, there is something that needs to be disconnected 
> prior to using a timing light. I can't remember what exactly it is, but I 
> think it's a vacuum line somewhere. Again, that information is in the 
> Bentley. Once the whatever is disconnected, the timing should be steady 
> when viewed with the timing light.
> The timing advance on Motronic cars is controlled by the ECU, which is why 
> initial setting of the timing requires disconnecting whatever it is the 
> Bentley tells you. They do connect a timing sensor to the number one 
> cylinder spark plug lead when running an emissions test in California. 
> Don't know if it's just for reference to the machine, or if they can 
> actually fail you if it's out of spec.
>
> ~Holland
> On Mar 24, 2016 17:04, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net > 
> wrote:
>
> ok so ground showed no continuity to that sensor wire.  it does with pin 7 
> i believe on the ecu connector,  so i guess i am good.  i kept getting 
> confused because people were talking about an insulated wire and im 
> thinking a nasty cable like for tv.  when looking these guys over as is, 
> they don't seem special looking to me.
>
> also i looked over the car again and i do have 2 knock sensors.  they are 
> on the front of the block close to each, closer to cylinder #1.  they each 
> attach to a harness connector  that goes into the loom and to the ecu.  so 
> if i remember right people said 1.8 blocks don't have 2?  yet i couldn't 
> fit the larger im shaft gear into this block that mates to the oil pump it 
> had the smaller block off plate hole?  so still not sure what i have.  in 
> included a picture down below.  hopefully i won't need to care.
>
> here is a link to video of my first cold startup.   for some reason it 
> took like 5 times to start like there was no gas, fuel pump was making 
> noise.  then it started right up.  can anybody tell if it sounds ok?  i am 
> now having an issue with timing the car.  i tried cold and after a warmup 
> cycle and i cannot get the pointer to stay still with the light on?  it 
> kind of lines up with the diamond and then it will shoot off a little bit 
> off one way or the other.  if i go further either way from where it is now, 
> when it shoots off it tends to go in that direction more.  i tried 
> connecting the lead near the distributor cap and at the head.  it seems to 
> like this spot the best but im not sure how accurate it is.  im wondering 
> what impact this could have on smog if im a little off.  also not sure if 
> this means my car is having troubles or if my timing light is messed up.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB9yXn61pS8
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ld5z8T1qMBU/VvSAHUYZQFI/AOw/TN6T8t9LDnYh-Ek6Nwhyij9PhtpIeLAEQ/s1600/IMG_0583.JPG>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 10:32:11 AM UTC-7, stevenarguello wrote:
>
> I think that your loom is good, I wouldn’t mess with it anymore. The 
> Bentley shows a circle around the signal wire where that ground meets the 
> O2 signal wire instead of a splice and that’s what 

Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

i could just tape the loom up where the wires are cut.  i have searched 
vortex forums and it seems allot of people run without that plug sensor but 
i can't find a definate on what the computer actually does.

i don't know if its because im living in a no smog small county or what, 
but i have had trouble already with the places in town.  i think i will 
have to venture further away.  one told me i needed to get the check engine 
light fixed because he couldn't find it and luckily he wouldn't even charge 
me or start the test.  i told him what the book said and it being currently 
smogged.  next place told me i need to pay for smog and if it fails they 
will fix it and charge me nothing on a retest.  so they won't do a pre 
test?  i specifically told them what i wanted to do and how im dealing with 
this piece of crap.  i am guessing the shops can do what they want?  the 
places in town don't even offer free retesting.


On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 7:56:27 PM UTC-7, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> I've had concerns about the wires you found cut since you mentioned them. 
> In CA, on pre OBD cars, they look for hardware and check tail pipe. I had a 
> Euro intake on my car, and the port for the EYE valve wasn't machined, so I 
> just bolted the valve on and ran the wire back into the harness without 
> connecting it, and they never caught it. Those cut wires may be for the 
> reference sensor, and if the smog Nazis see them, they may fail you on that 
> alone. Plus, without a functioning reference sensor, I doubt the car will 
> run correctly, and that may be the reason your timing is jumping around. 
> Like I said before, at this point, I would find a smog station that offers 
> free retests and go for it. They will tell you what is not correct if it 
> fails. 
>
> ~Holland
> On Mar 31, 2016 19:27, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net > 
> wrote:
>
> holy cow i hope to have a success story soon but i am not quite there yet 
> for smog.  i went ahead and checked the codes and found i got an egr 
> error, igntion reference sender and knock sensor #1 bad wiring or sender.
>
> somebody told me i don't have a california ecu, does anybody know if all 
> ecu's would throw that egr even if on a non california car?  i don't think 
> i have to worry about it, just wondering.
>
> on the knock sensor both of mine are chipped up where the sensor bolts in, 
> one of them has no covering on the whole run of wire, just metal strands. 
>  just got a couple bosch new ones for cheap on ebay so will install those.
>
> the last one for the igntion reference sender brings up an issue i didn't 
> know i had.  my car has no sensor on #4 wire and i found no connector in my 
> harness but there is a run of 3 wires that was cut off.  does anybody know 
> if this will effect how the computer runs things?  i have read it both ways 
> searching.  i never noticed a problem with the car before i touched it 
> except it was stinky and didn't get good mileage.  i don't even care about 
> this as long as i pass smog.
>
> if i read right i also believe a car can have a 2 degree deviation from 
> the stock timing specs so i think i might just take a chance with this car 
> and set it as best as i can, even though the timing light jumps around.  i 
> have talked with numerous people on each side of this issue as well.  some 
> said their marks wandered, some said they don't.  hate to throw money at 
> this car if i don't have to, but would enjoy making it right for the next 
> guy when i get rid of it :)
>
> On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 5:52:49 PM UTC-7, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> Two knock sensors means 2.0/9A block.
> On the timing issue, there is something that needs to be disconnected 
> prior to using a timing light. I can't remember what exactly it is, but I 
> think it's a vacuum line somewhere. Again, that information is in the 
> Bentley. Once the whatever is disconnected, the timing should be steady 
> when viewed with the timing light.
> The timing advance on Motronic cars is controlled by the ECU, which is why 
> initial setting of the timing requires disconnecting whatever it is the 
> Bentley tells you. They do connect a timing sensor to the number one 
> cylinder spark plug lead when running an emissions test in California. 
> Don't know if it's just for reference to the machine, or if they can 
> actually fail you if it's out of spec.
>
> ~Holland
> On Mar 24, 2016 17:04, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> ok so ground showed no continuity to that sensor wire.  it does with pin 7 
> i believe on the ecu connector,  so i guess i am good.  i kept getting 
> confused because people were talking about an insulated wire and im 
> thinking a nasty cable like for tv.  when looking these guys

Re: [mk2-16v] Re: how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

i think i sold them for best offer on ebay for $75, had allot of interest. 
 i took a bunch of pictures, etc.

i noticed on my emissions tests barely anything registered.  so i guess an 
engine that is basically working with a tune up and new catalytic converter 
will do that?  i think california cats have to have a 7 year 70,000 
warranty on them.  i wonder if it will last.  i don't care to find out, i 
will be restoring the car for fun to get better at painting, will restore 
the ac, and put it on stock suspension and let the next person enjoy it. 
 it has been so annoying driving this thing on coilovers, im surprised the 
bumper is still attached.  i do love the go kart feel of the chasis, but 
have been surprised that the bigger tires are allowing me to peel out so 
easy.  i guess i'm going to have to be carefull when i put the tdi in it.

On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 9:33:28 AM UTC-7, stevenarguello wrote:
>
> Congrats.
>  What did you do with the old cams? Just curious. 
>
> On Apr 25, 2016, at 12:21 PM, damac2004 <dama...@sbcglobal.net 
> > wrote:
>
> looks like i forgot to update my thread.  i ended up leaving the second 
> knock sensor hooked up to the engine which was between cylinder 2 and 3. 
>  never detected any pinging on this car.  drove the hell out of it, it 
> seems happy at current timing and isn't hesitating when i stomp on the 
> pedal.  car is definately slower without those mods, i thought they were bs.
>
> i went to the 4th smog shop that also did repairs and pleaded for help to 
> find out why these other shops were jerks to me and kept telling me about 
> the check engine light.  
>
> this guy was nice, listened to what i had to say and took my smog test out 
> to his tech.  he said the light and egr stuff was seperate, that i had a 
> federal emissions car and the light wasn't applicable but he saw other cars 
> from this generation that needed a light and thought it was interesting. 
>  he smogged me on the spot and i passed!
>
> i don't think this bigger repair shop did me any favors?  but i'm glad to 
> finally have it done.  nobody could really answer why some shops said this 
> car needed a light.  one shop saw my fail and freaked on me saying i needed 
> a light blindly and wouldn't even look it up.  moral of the story is find a 
> good shop when it comes to any kind of service.  you can't believe these 
> guys at face value.
>
> thanks for all the help!!!
>
> i know i was freaking out since it was just me working on all this stuff. 
>  i really hate these gassers and can't wait to get to my mtdi conversions, 
> never will buy an old gasser again!
>
>
> On Friday, April 8, 2016 at 9:49:28 PM UTC-7, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> It may not see any codes until you put some miles on it. If the block has 
> 2 knock sensors, it's a 9A block. The Motronic ECU wants to see both 
> sensors. The previous owner has left you a real mess. As I said before, I 
> would just find a test station that offers free retests and go for it. You 
> really don't have any other options at this point. The reduced power and 
> smoother idle is probably due to the stock cams. 
>
> ~Holland
> On Apr 8, 2016 20:31, "damac2004" <
>
> ...

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Re: [mk2-16v] Re: how do i find out what engine i have?

[damac2004]

looks like i forgot to update my thread.  i ended up leaving the second 
knock sensor hooked up to the engine which was between cylinder 2 and 3. 
 never detected any pinging on this car.  drove the hell out of it, it 
seems happy at current timing and isn't hesitating when i stomp on the 
pedal.  car is definately slower without those mods, i thought they were bs.

i went to the 4th smog shop that also did repairs and pleaded for help to 
find out why these other shops were jerks to me and kept telling me about 
the check engine light.  

this guy was nice, listened to what i had to say and took my smog test out 
to his tech.  he said the light and egr stuff was seperate, that i had a 
federal emissions car and the light wasn't applicable but he saw other cars 
from this generation that needed a light and thought it was interesting. 
 he smogged me on the spot and i passed!

i don't think this bigger repair shop did me any favors?  but i'm glad to 
finally have it done.  nobody could really answer why some shops said this 
car needed a light.  one shop saw my fail and freaked on me saying i needed 
a light blindly and wouldn't even look it up.  moral of the story is find a 
good shop when it comes to any kind of service.  you can't believe these 
guys at face value.

thanks for all the help!!!

i know i was freaking out since it was just me working on all this stuff. 
 i really hate these gassers and can't wait to get to my mtdi conversions, 
never will buy an old gasser again!


On Friday, April 8, 2016 at 9:49:28 PM UTC-7, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> It may not see any codes until you put some miles on it. If the block has 
> 2 knock sensors, it's a 9A block. The Motronic ECU wants to see both 
> sensors. The previous owner has left you a real mess. As I said before, I 
> would just find a test station that offers free retests and go for it. You 
> really don't have any other options at this point. The reduced power and 
> smoother idle is probably due to the stock cams. 
>
> ~Holland
> On Apr 8, 2016 20:31, "damac2004" <dama...@sbcglobal.net > 
> wrote:
>
> anybody know how long it should take to throw a code?  i just warmed the 
> car up one cycle on the driveway and it didn't throw any codes after, i'm 
> guessing i have to go take it on a nasty drive?
>
> i am close to taking it in for smog.  i had to go back and trace wires, 
> etc. and fix previous owner crap.  i was worried about the moving timing 
> light so i got another distributor, cap, rotor and wires with the #4 sensor 
> that i didn't have, and the car still wanders with the light making it hard 
> for me to get exact :(  i tried to leave it in a happy spot based on sound.
>
> it turns out i have 2 knock sensors attached to the block.  #1 inbetween 1 
> and 2 cylinders.  then #2 between 2 and 3!!!  i'm guessing this is 
> incorrect no matter the engine and either it gets one over on the left 
> side, or a second one to the right of the breather?  this is probably going 
> to confused the car if i leave it as is?
>
> they had #2 sensor hooked up correctly to the harness.  but they hooked #1 
> up to the ignition reference sensor from #4 spark plug, and they cut the 
> harness side of #1 knock sensor.  that damn car really did run great to me, 
> it was faster then than it is now, just a 
>
> ...

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[mk2-16v] Re: Starting a car that has not run in a long time

[damac2004]

yet another reason for me to stick to old vw mechanical diesels :)

if there was fuel left over i will just crank them and run them.  if not i 
could bring an electrical pump in a bucket of fuel to force some new 
fuel/atf into the system, maybe sit for a day if the fuel system is crusty 
and then run it.  i brought back a few to life this way including a couple 
that had a bad incident with some waste vegetable oil cocktail and were 
very crusty inside.

On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 8:32:26 AM UTC-7, Larry Velez wrote:
>
> There is a website I frequent called Quora where people post questions and 
> others answer them.  For some reason this site has attracted many high 
> profile and top experts in many fields who regularly answer questions.
>
>  
>
> Today I ran across a question about whether it was safe to jump start an 
> old car that has been sitting:  
> https://www.quora.com/Is-it-safe-to-jump-start-an-old-car-that-has-not-been-started-for-many-years
>
>  
>
> Now that our cars are getting long in the tooth, there are bound to be 
> more and more of them that have been sitting.   One person’s summary seems 
> like a useful starting point.  I wish I had known this when I tried to 
> start my 16V which was sitting for a few months – if I had drained the old 
> fuel – I might have saved myself a world of headaches since then on my 
> journey to get her back on the road.
>
>  
>
> In any case, here is one of the answers to the question: 
>
>  
>
> There are some universal truths:
>
> 1) you can't just start it and run it. The gas is not useable, the fuel 
> hose is very likely going to crumble and explode as soon as you get it 
> under pressure, there is unimaginable corrosion in the electrical contacts.
>
> 2) bring a trailer. (In fact, there's a whole web site called Bring a 
> Trailer  just for that reason)
>
> 3) prepare to spend a large amount of time and modest amount of money 
> getting it to the point that you can drive it enough to figure out what 
> else it needs. Last time I did this ('62 Porsche Cabriolet, not shown) 
> here's what I did:
>
> a. drained the fuel tank, pulled it, had it cleaned at a radiator shop, 
> discovered leaks, had them fixed
>
> b. replaced all the rubber fuel hose and fuel filter
>
> c. pulled the carbs and mechanical fuel pump, cleaned and rebuilt both 
> (technically "all three" since there were two carbs)
>
> d. pulled and tossed the plugs, plug wires, points, condenser, distributor 
> cap and coil, replacing them with new
>
> e. made sure the brakes weren't stuck in the "on" position or rusted to 
> the drums (very common)
>
> f. pulled the wheel cylinders, rubber brake hoses, and master cylinder and 
> rebuilt or replaced as was necessary, then reinstalled and bled the brakes
>
> g. replaced the dry-rotted tires and valve stems
>
> h. figured out if the car had been converted from 6V to 12V (it hadn't), 
> got a 6V battery, hooked it up and started chasing electrical shorts
>
> i. drained what was left of the oil, cleaned the strainer, suctioned out 
> the oil filter can (hard body, with replaceable paper cartridge filter), 
> filled with 30w high-detergent oil, and cranked it for a while (5-10 min), 
> checking oil pressure with mechanical gauge as I did so. Drained oil, 
> replaced oil and filter.
>
> j. connected the ignition electricals at the engine
>
> k. primed the carbs, shot some starting fluid down the barrels, and fired 
> it up.
>
> It still spat nasty black smoke, part of a mouse nest (maybe some mouse 
> parts too) and was generally unhappy for a while. I stopped it, facepalmed 
> for having forgotten to adjust the valves, waited until it was dead cold, 
> did that, and re-started.
>
> After that, it was fine.
>
> Well.
>
> At least, until I decided to restore it
>
> And that's pretty much how you need to approach your "old car, hasn't run 
> in a long time" car. Doing otherwise will eventually put you back on 
> exactly this path, perhaps with an intervening engine rebuild or hospital 
> visit.
>
>  
>

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[mk2-16v] Re: Nash Importers

[damac2004]

my dream car that i am going to restore in the near future is mk2 diesel 
title with a mtdi engine.  plan to keep it a long time, its more fun to 
drive than my rabbit.

i have a couple mk2 chasis that i assume have original rubber.  these 
pieces surprsingly don't seem cracked but i am curious if having all these 
old seals is what makes these cars leak?  holy cow my jetta and golf chasis 
will collect a puddle on either end when pointed that way.  trunk leaks, 
etc.  im guessing they don't have the bounce to fill in all the gaps being 
so old.

definately something i will need to bite the bullet on and get new rubber 
after paint and all new interior.  my cars get disgusting during winter 
time.

On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 10:15:03 AM UTC-7, Larry Velez wrote:
>
> Not sure if anyone has tried to buy from this company but they claim to 
> have hard to get Mk2 rubber parts,  including rain gutters for MK2 Jetta.
>
>  
>
> http://www.nashimporters.com/
>
>  
>
> Larry
>
> 91 GTI 16V
>

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[mk2-16v] im confused about vw instructions to retrofit ac system from scratch and adding oil

[damac2004]

thanks to google i found some vw bulletin on converting over to r134 from 
r12.  i got 3 ac cars to bring back to life and it should be easy but i got 
some questions.

1.  they list the different compressors with differing amounts of oil, etc. 
 how the heck do i find out what compressors i have on used runners with no 
labels?

2.  their chart seems to differentiate between a working system being 
converted and one starting from scratch.  if i follow the charts for this 
in my case since all connections except those they say not to, are flushed 
they list what seems to clearly be a warning with TOTAL oil added to the 
system.  but on this chart if i follow the directions for amounts, this 
would leave less oil in the compressor than it calls for in the previous 
section.

i don't understand how ac systems work but im assuming i fill all the parts 
and put the rest not over total allowed into the compressor.   does the oil 
in an ac system move around to where it needs to be or is that oil staying 
in each part?  

i just don't want to do it twice :)



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