[MMouse]: In support of Mogwai
There was a 2 month period this year when all I wanted to listen to was Mogwai. Come on Die Young made me want to stay in on weekends and just be by myself. I really think this album has the utmost emotion and power. Luckily, I have reduced the time listening to it, but it is no doubt a masterpiece in my mind. They evoke so many strong emotions inside of me. Just thought I'd offer my opinon. widefoot
Re: [MMouse]:
oh and fight club was pretty good. edward norton is a great actor. i just hope that highly impressionable kids don't go out and start blowing up buildings because the politically correct uptight closed minded fools will go on a rampage. Highly impressionable kids that see Fight Club are going to do whatever highly impressionable kids do when they see pro wrestling on cable or Columbine footage on the news - they are going to soak it up and make ill-advised decisions for themselves. Guns don't kill, people do. If any kid decides to do anything for any reason, it is only because he DECIDED to. He made that decision. How can anyone blame society for the decisions of one poor sap? I certainly am not responsible for the actions of the people around me. It's free will everywhere you look. *phiL* = __ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
[MMouse]: self-censorship
First..it's not self censorship..its taking the feelings ofothers into account before you open your mouth. I'm going to define self-censorship as follows: "Watching the words that you say because you're concerned about how other people will feel about you saying them." Whether yr motives for self-censorship are noble or not is another matter altogether. If you are consciously picking and choosing yr words based on the reactions that other people might have to them, well then you are censoring yrself for one reason or another. Perhaps you're censoring yrself because you realize that there is a time and a place for crude language and you are deciding against making such a display public. Or maybe you are biting yr tongue simply because you respect other people's wishes to remain clean-cut and upright. It's possible that you fear the backlash of others from using words that are racy or taboo. Whatever yr reasoning, you are still doing it. Everyone does it. I do it at work all of the time, mainly because I could get fired for calling the idiots that I work with "fucking imbeciles" or "mindless fucking morons." But I think that if you are letting the opinions of others make choices for you, well then you are spineless. Sometimes I watch my words out of respect, but never do I keep my mouth shut because of what other people might think. Its not about an inabilty to expressyour views, or other people stopping you from speaking your mind, butsimply an empathy that your words can and sometimes do offend and enrageothers. I dont see how taking other people's feelings into account is such aterrible cessession of personal freedom. I never said that it was such a huge loss of personal freedom. I'm not the one calling anyone a cunt or a faggot here, either. I just don't think it's fair to dub a handful of words inappropriate under the premise that they refer in vulgar terms to parts of the human anatomy. Following that logic, one should refrain from using the word "dick" or "dickhead". That was the original point that I was trying to make, that if you want to clean up one aspect of language, then you should be willing to clean it all up. Unless of course you're simply going to pick and choose what is acceptable and what is not. Which by the way you are already free to do of yr own accord without the compliance of an electronic mailing list and its patrons. Why is it OK to degrade the male anatomy and not the female? Sounds like reverse discrimination to me. The point I'm trying to make is simple: if you want to slice and dice words so that they are not offensive to certain people, then you have an awful lot of chopping to do. Different people have varying tolerances for language - what may be harmless to you might be crude or uncouth to someone else. For hundreds of years, the most heinous word that could be uttered in Jolly Olde England was the word "bloody." It was the most offensive word known to man. In the New World, the most sinister word was initially a little acronym referred to as "fuck." Forced Unlawful Carnal Knowledge. When a colonist had illicit relations with another person, be it their relative, neighbor, or stranger, the acronym "f-u-c-k" was placed on a placard around their neck as they hung in the stocks for a day where the whole colony could see and take note. Is that word offensive to anyone? There was a time when you couldn't hear words like "goddamn" and "asshole" on television, whether it was cable or not. There was a time when you couldn't show the pointless graphic violence that pervades the tube on a nightly basis now. The times are changing. I'm not about to "temper" my language just because one person deems it inappropriate. If yr interests lie in keeping everyone around you comfortable and happy, then may I wish you the best of luck in achieving happiness. I'm not trying to make curse words in general a rallying flag for the first amendment, but I'm certainly not going to sit on my ass while someone tells me that I shouldn't say "green" or "blue" because they don't agree with those colors. *sigh* Now, my spleen aches to vent once more... MOGWAI You don't like them? Sorry about yr luck. They're not for everybody, I guess. They just happen to be one of my favorites. If you can't get into it, then don't try. Lost cause. It comes and it goes, *phiL* = __ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
RE: [MMouse]: self-censorship
That wasn't what i was talking about and you know it. If your really that paranoid that one day all your words are going to be stripped away from you so that you wont have anyway to express yourself..your being a tad paranoid. All that happens when a word is a taboo is that it makes you think twice before using it. Twenty years ago, i could have called a gay person a faggot without any reproach. Now, when i use the word i better have a damn good reason for it..because if i dont its just rude(when i was talking about faggot before i was talking about it in the sense that it refers to a small collection of wood..). Its a matter of civility, if you dont feel inclined to think of others sensability before you open your mouth..great..im sure everyone will applaud your ability to stand up to the status quo..I however..wouldn't like words said in my presence..and respect that others might feel the same way, if only about different words. Its not about censoring ideas..which i think is a terrible thing..its about words..there are almost a million to choose from..if you cant convey an idea because you cant use a single word..then buy a thesuarus. PS...whered you hear that origin of the word fuck from?..it might have been used that way..but its origin goes back a lot farther than that.. Mark http://dugmartsch.tripod.com And your mom would stick a fork right into daddy's shoulder, and dad would throw the garbage all across the floor, as we would lay and learn what each other's bodies were for. And your mom would drink until she was no longer speaking, and dad would dream of all the different ways to die, each one a little more than he could dare to try.
[MMouse]: broken jaw
okay, couldn't understand a goddamned word of what isaac was saying at a recent SF show, but could make out something about a broken jaw. what's the deal... does he have one? i mean, i know he's kinda slurry as it is, but what's he talking about? also: why the fuck is the Mouse so good? what's the word on the new album? --km hey ... why don't you go look at my websites? http://sites.netscape.net/k8mercier http://www.zyworld.com/k8mercier/k8news.htm ..oO0Oo.. Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com.
[MMouse]: offensive words...
oh god...faggot is probably the worst. i shudder when i hear it. the reason it's so offensive is because its use is an indirect attack on homosexuals. back in the days of witch trials and whatnot, they would burn the "witches" at the stake, and the bundles of wood that they used as fuel for the fire were called faggots. but homosexuals were also perscuted heavily during this time period. during the burnings, they would use those accused of homosexuality as additional fuel for the fires. the homosexuals were used as firewood, or faggots. so today, the word faggot has an extreme connotation of hatred and persecution. in other words, it's a pretty painful word hoping she enlightened someone out there, hezi __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
[MMouse]: mogwai/remix albums
From: "sputnik"[EMAIL PROTECTED] okay, this list has turned into a free for all. as for mogwai...im on karinas side. although i admit ive only heard a few of their songs. but everyone i hear has like 5 minutes of silence before barely audible sounds come in at very slow paces. Well, that only describes about three of their songs. From: "Matt Evanosky" [EMAIL PROTECTED] kicking a dead pig/mogwai fear satan is w/o a doubt the best collection of remixes available today... I don't know, have you heard the Low remix album? I think it's a bit better. np:WindyCarl, "Sirens" -- ...extensive liner notes and make-believe alien languages... Rev. Jack Godsey. http://members.tripod.com/~spill/index.html Spiritual counsel and webmaster for Pegasi 51. http://members.tripod.com/pegasi51/index.html
[MMouse]: 'our word'
On Tue, 19 Oct 1999, Mark Robbins wrote: PS...whered you hear that origin of the word fuck from?..it might have been used that way..but its origin goes back a lot farther than that.. 'fuck' first appeared in a poem from the 14th century by a Scot, but the actual creation of the word is credited to the Celts. Many people think it came from an acronym. -selena
RE:[MMouse]: mugwump
i don't know if anyone else had the same experience as i did with mogwai, but it seems like there are quite a few people out there that aren't open to them. i saw them opening for pavement in athens back in '96, and the crowd wasn't very receptive. it was amusing though, cuz the mogwai boys noticed that people didn't like them, so they started being their scottish asshole selves. their louds got louder and more *angry*, and the quiets quieter so that when it Did get loud, it scared people. plus the bass player got pissed off and sat down to smoke his cigarette. :) so. go see mogwai live, and if you don't like them, they'll piss you off even more. although i must say they put on a great show. do you people like slint? if so, i don't know how could could not like mogwai. mogwai has become what slint could have had they not broken up. or maybe mogwai is even more than slint ever would have been. catlove "http://members.tripod.com/terrarium" -- Original Message From: "sputni"[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MMouse]: mugwump Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:34:10 -0800 okay, this list has turned into a free for all. as for mogwai...im on karinas side. although i admit ive only heard a few of their songs. but everyone i hear has like 5 minutes of silence before barely audible sounds come in at very slow paces. i know this isnt a very scientific study but im just explaining my relationship ive had with them thus far. i mean, i dont call them crap, but ive just read way to much hype about them that so far seems unjustified. but whatever. im not hip. blah. people, people, why are we fighting? Email services provided by ApexMail http://www.apexmail.com _ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com
Re: [MMouse]: Red House Painters
hi...i'm new. i totally agree...come on die young completely moved me. i own the remixes and listen to them a lot too. have you heard of red house painters? they're sorta like mogwai...long, sad songs. i just bought the retrospective cd set and it's sooo nicemmm. anyone get the new paris texas yet? my bf got it over the weekend and he thinks it's pretty good. i *love* the song 'my week beats yer year'it just totally rocks. i saw archer prewitt and pavement over at the vic in chicago last weekend...archer rocked (!) and pavement opened with one of my favorite songs by them, shady lane. they put on a pretty good show and actually sang some of the stuff off of terror twilight...they also did a smashing pumpkins cover (1979) and i think corgan was actually there (!)...not sure tho... i also saw the eternals and isotope 217 at the high dive in champaigni had never seen the eternals in concert before and they kinda reminded me of dead can dance...the singer has this amazing, deep, chant-y voice, and he was all dancing and shit. isotope pumped out fog and played under these red and orange lights...it was great. there was this guy tho that had the biggest fucking mullet i've ever seen standing in front of me and while i didn't give a fuck or anything all i could hear in my head was that song by wesley willis, 'cut the mullet'...heh heh. i'm seeing ida tonight in champaigncan't fucking wait. mmm. sorry this was so long and totally unrelated to modest mouse! i *am* crazy about them though and i'm happy to be on this list with other ppl who like them. there are like two ppl i know onmy campus that like them, but of course, what do they know? peons!@! jenny modest mouse roolz On Tue, 19 Oct 1999, David Park wrote: There was a 2 month period this year when all I wanted to listen to was Mogwai. Come on Die Young made me want to stay in on weekends and just be by myself. I really think this album has the utmost emotion and power. Luckily, I have reduced the time listening to it, but it is no doubt a masterpiece in my mind. They evoke so many strong emotions inside of me. Just thought I'd offer my opinon. widefoot
[MMouse]: etymology
Its a matter of civility, if youdont feel inclined to think of others sensability before you open yourmouth..great..im sure everyone will applaud your ability to stand up to thestatus quo..I however..wouldn't like words said in my presence..andrespect that others might feel the same way, if only about different words. Its not about censoring ideas..which i think is a terrible thing..itsabout words.. I read that definition in a book called "Wicked Words." I'll be sure to print up some excerpts for tomorrow's discussion. And thanks for yr concern, but I think I'm doing a fine job of conveying my thoughts, actually. You seem to be missing a vital piece of what I'm saying. I'm not talking about censoring ideas either. Let me ask you this: How does a word become taboo? If no one is afraid to say a word, how would it remain taboo any longer? I was reading an editorial a few months ago in The Source. For those of you that may not know this, The Source is a magazine about hip-hop music and culture. I believe this particular issue had Eminem on the cover, and there was quite a bit of talk about 'white rappers' and many other race issues within hip-hop. The particular editorial that I read involved the use of the word "nigger" and how it has evolved over the years. The individual who wrote the editorial detailed the origins of the word, specifically how plantation owners used the word to refer to their slaves. It went on to explain that the slaves began to use the word when talking to each other, their rationale being that if they took the sting out of the racial epithet, certainly it would serve no purpose to continue using the word in a derogatory manner. If you take all of the piss out of a word, then what pain can that word cause any longer? Perhaps the point that you're trying to make is that you respect people more than I do because you decide to choose yr words carefully in their presence. My point is that I don't ever feel it necessary to bite my tongue in the presence of other people because I have already chosen my words long before I've spoken them. What you apparently haven't taken into account is that I might never have occasion to need to censor myself because I'm not running around spouting off slanderous remarks day and night. The point I was trying to make long before that was that "cunt" is just as rude as "dick" to me. People seem to want some kind of buffet of words that they can pick and choose from as being decent or appropriate even though many other words are much worse. The whole issue is moot if you can learn more creative ways to put someone down (if that's yr kind of thing). There's a Patti Smith song called "Rock 'n' Roll Nigger." Have you ever heard it? And if I need a thesaurus, might I recommend a style manual for you. crossing my i's, *phiL* = __ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Re: [MMouse]: broken jaw
On 19 Oct 1999, Kate Mercier wrote: okay, couldn't understand a goddamned word of what isaac was saying at a recent SF show, but could make out something about a broken jaw. what's the deal... does he have one? i mean, i know he's kinda slurry as it is, but what's he talking about? Yeah, he has a broken jaw, but the cause of it (source: The Stranger) isn't clear. While in Chicago he either got "jacked in a really bad way" by some hoodlums or he suffered a (drunken?) accident. what's the word on the new album? Comp is due 12/99, new stuff due 04/00. Gee, doesn't anyone read my posts? J. "If fate means you lose, give him a good fight anyhow." -W. McFee
Re: [MMouse]: Red House Painters
red house painters is smooth as hell..."all mixed up" is tight!!! chris
Re: [MMouse]: Re: Digest modestmouse.v001.n514
new get up kids album RULES! - Original Message - From: amna a. akbar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 11:29 PM Subject: [MMouse]: Re: Digest modestmouse.v001.n514 how is the new get up kids album? [keep on keep keep on keep on keep on keep on keep on keep on keep on]
Re: [MMouse]: Re: Digest modestmouse.v001.n514
similar or dissimilar from the first? On Tue, 19 Oct 1999, Chris Vandebrooke wrote: new get up kids album RULES! - Original Message - From: amna a. akbar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 11:29 PM Subject: [MMouse]: Re: Digest modestmouse.v001.n514 how is the new get up kids album? [keep on keep keep on keep on keep on keep on keep on keep on keep on] [keep on keep keep on keep on keep on keep on keep on keep on keep on]
Re: [MMouse]: broken jaw
Isaac was walking around near the studio, and a group of guys walked up to him and said "You aren't from around here, are you?", "and Issac was like, Not really, just hanging out (something like that)", and they proceeded to beat the shit out of him. I'm sure he got sassy at least once. cv On 19 Oct 1999, Kate Mercier wrote: okay, couldn't understand a goddamned word of what isaac was saying at a recent SF show, but could make out something about a broken jaw. what's the deal... does he have one? i mean, i know he's kinda slurry as it is, but what's he talking about? Yeah, he has a broken jaw, but the cause of it (source: The Stranger) isn't clear. While in Chicago he either got "jacked in a really bad way" by some hoodlums or he suffered a (drunken?) accident. what's the word on the new album? Comp is due 12/99, new stuff due 04/00. Gee, doesn't anyone read my posts? J. "If fate means you lose, give him a good fight anyhow." -W. McFee
Re: [MMouse]: Re: Digest modestmouse.v001.n514
At first I thought it was to produced. So I sat down, listened to it, and it's so damn catchy. I really love that guys lyrics. It's so much better than the first album, but it also doesn't have that unproduced edge that 4MM did. I like the newer album much better. chris - Original Message - From: amna a. akbar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Chris Vandebrooke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [MMouse]: Re: Digest modestmouse.v001.n514 similar or dissimilar from the first? On Tue, 19 Oct 1999, Chris Vandebrooke wrote: new get up kids album RULES! - Original Message - From: amna a. akbar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 11:29 PM Subject: [MMouse]: Re: Digest modestmouse.v001.n514 how is the new get up kids album? [keep on keep keep on keep on keep on keep on keep on keep on keep on] [keep on keep keep on keep on keep on keep on keep on keep on keep on]
RE: [MMouse]: etymology
No..ive never heard of the book..however..being that the word nigger is probably the most offensive word in the english language today..i dont think the slaves succeded in their objective. Perhaps the point that you're trying to make is that you respect people more than I do because you decide to choose yr words carefully in their presence. That's not what i meant at all..let me clarify. What was meant was that "politcal correctness" isn't intended to stop people from talking, or to stop using certain words phrases ideas etc. or in any way lead to some Orwellian nightmare. It's intention, is to force those who would rather not think about anyone but themselves to do so, and for that i think it is an amazing force. If it means that in the process we lose a few ugly words, it doesnt really matter to me..there are plenty to take their places. I'm not saying that "political correctness" is the panacea of a cold humanity..but at least its a start. Maybe if today we think about how our words affect others, then perhaps tomorrow we can think of how our actions affect others; something we seem to be quite poor at. Mark From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Philip Smoker Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 5:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MMouse]: etymology Its a matter of civility, if youdont feel inclined to think of others sensability before you open yourmouth..great..im sure everyone will applaud your ability to stand up to thestatus quo..I however..wouldn't like words said in my presence..andrespect that others might feel the same way, if only about different words. Its not about censoring ideas..which i think is a terrible thing..itsabout words.. I read that definition in a book called "Wicked Words." I'll be sure to print up some excerpts for tomorrow's discussion. And thanks for yr concern, but I think I'm doing a fine job of conveying my thoughts, actually. You seem to be missing a vital piece of what I'm saying. I'm not talking about censoring ideas either. Let me ask you this: How does a word become taboo? If no one is afraid to say a word, how would it remain taboo any longer? I was reading an editorial a few months ago in The Source. For those of you that may not know this, The Source is a magazine about hip-hop music and culture. I believe this particular issue had Eminem on the cover, and there was quite a bit of talk about 'white rappers' and many other race issues within hip-hop. The particular editorial that I read involved the use of the word "nigger" and how it has evolved over the years. The individual who wrote the editorial detailed the origins of the word, specifically how plantation owners used the word to refer to their slaves. It went on to explain that the slaves began to use the word when talking to each other, their rationale being that if they took the sting out of the racial epithet, certainly it would serve no purpose to continue using the word in a derogatory manner. If you take all of the piss out of a word, then what pain can that word cause any longer? Perhaps the point that you're trying to make is that you respect people more than I do because you decide to choose yr words carefully in their presence. My point is that I don't ever feel it necessary to bite my tongue in the presence of other people because I have already chosen my words long before I've spoken them. What you apparently haven't taken into account is that I might never have occasion to need to censor myself because I'm not running around spouting off slanderous remarks day and night. The point I was trying to make long before that was that "cunt" is just as rude as "dick" to me. People seem to want some kind of buffet of words that they can pick and choose from as being decent or appropriate even though many other words are much worse. The whole issue is moot if you can learn more creative ways to put someone down (if that's yr kind of thing). There's a Patti Smith song called "Rock 'n' Roll Nigger." Have you ever heard it? And if I need a thesaurus, might I recommend a style manual for you. crossing my i's, *phiL* = __ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Re: [MMouse]: the promise ring/red stars theory
Oh. I only have the Embrace, Sunny Day Realestate, and Cap n' Jazz albums. I guess I'm not emo. What to do? Karina
Re: [MMouse]: Mogwai
In a message dated Mon, 18 Oct 1999 1:48:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jackie 0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I wasn't going to even, but now I have to WHAT IS GOOD ABOUT MOGWAI? I've have tried to like them several times, but I think they are SO boring. And I usually LIKE boring noise complimented by quiet stuff, but they're just...yucky. Ugh... 1- Why have you "tried" to like them? Do you feel that yr status as a hipster kid up on the latest indie ticket requires to to "try" and like all those bands yr "supposed" to? Have you, similarly, "tried" to like Merzbow, the Boredoms, Neutral Milk Hotel, and Godspeed You Black Emperor!? Why should anyone ever "try" and like music? If you like it, you like it, if you don't, you don't, and who cares anyway? Wow, that was hostile...I have 'tried' to like them because 2 or 3 of my firends, who listen to most of the same music I do, like them and play them all the time and whether I want to or not, I am exposed to Mogwai. So maybe 'tried' is the wrong word. I "approached Mogwai with a positive attitude". On several listenes. And I just cringe. what to tell you... maybe Mogwai isn't the band for you. How about wasting yr time talking about the bands you DO like rather than asking why you don't "get" a band yr "supposed" to? Oh, I don't know...just trying to fit in with all you other 'hipsters'... obviously, I've offended Mogwai fans. oops... Karina
[MMouse]: some conversations
Nothing personal here, but i think there's a few ongoing conversations on this here list that need to go personal. and to re-cap: new get up kids: eh, didnt like the new one as much as earlier stuff mogwai: do or do not, there is no try...like come on die young but havent heard much of anything else. I "tried" to like them and discovered that I did. three second kiss: saw them with june of 44 and then some kid told me about their lp. Rocks if you can get over the thick italian accent. Mathy stuff, like bedhead or shipping news but faster. black heart procession: "tried" them too. pretty good. Quiet, dark,kinda minimal stuff like.. hmm, hard to say, a little like mogwai maybe. Mostly acoustic picking and strumming with some backing organ and piano type stuff. They play instruments like sheet metal and saws on this album. Two tracks with drums. american analog set: mellowish stuff definately in the vein of bedhead. the golden band is really pretty and sleep inducing (in a good way). i love bedhead! sunny day live album: came out today i think Anyone got the unwound singles thing? How about the jeff mueller thing? What does red stars theory sound like? word = __ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Re: [MMouse]: the promise ring/red stars theory
Oh. I only have the Embrace, Sunny Day Realestate, and Cap n' Jazz albums. I guess I'm not emo. What to do? don't worry... i have none of them and i don't plan on buying them any time soon.
