[neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread MichaelB
The response I got from the seller:

Dear m**r3695,

Thank you. We got it from a passed away collector. We will changing
the description.

- appleibmlaseresearch
Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to
reply




From: m**r3695
To: appleibmlaseresearch
Subject: Other: m**r3695 sent a message about 2x Burroughs B-7971
B7971 Nixie Tube Vintage Rare NOS #280702018540
Sent Date: Jun-25-11 22:38:21 PDT



Dear appleibmlaseresearch,

Hi There, Curious how you account for those burn marks on your "NOS"
B7971 tubes?

- m**r3695
On Jun 26, 10:53 pm, "A.J. Franzman"  wrote:
> On Jun 26, 4:58 pm, Dmitri Vorobiev  wrote:
>
> > It looks like the boxes aren't matching the nixies. To my
> > understanding, what was once in those boxes are the 6004 tubes:
>
> >http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6004.html
>
> > Like some other people in this email thread, I'm not buying the NOS
> > status claimed in the auction. The seller, judging by the other items
> > and selling history, isn't a vacuum tube or nixie expert, so he
> > probably can't tell if the box matches the contents.
>
> I agree, those are not correct boxes for the tubes. From additional
> anomalies already mentioned in some of the other comments here, the
> tubes are definitely not NOS either.
>
> The only original packaging I've ever seen (that I can remember) that
> is appropriate to B-7971 tubes is the styrofoam bulk trays. I would
> love to be proven wrong if someone here has a retail box or military-
> style plain brown or white box with the correct markings. I have seen
> NASA mission control film with console displays that could be 7971
> tubes, so that is one possible customer for quantities less than a
> full bulk tray, probably in mil-boxes.
>
> A.J.

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[neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread A.J. Franzman
On Jun 26, 4:58 pm, Dmitri Vorobiev  wrote:
> It looks like the boxes aren't matching the nixies. To my
> understanding, what was once in those boxes are the 6004 tubes:
>
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6004.html
>
> Like some other people in this email thread, I'm not buying the NOS
> status claimed in the auction. The seller, judging by the other items
> and selling history, isn't a vacuum tube or nixie expert, so he
> probably can't tell if the box matches the contents.

I agree, those are not correct boxes for the tubes. From additional
anomalies already mentioned in some of the other comments here, the
tubes are definitely not NOS either.

The only original packaging I've ever seen (that I can remember) that
is appropriate to B-7971 tubes is the styrofoam bulk trays. I would
love to be proven wrong if someone here has a retail box or military-
style plain brown or white box with the correct markings. I have seen
NASA mission control film with console displays that could be 7971
tubes, so that is one possible customer for quantities less than a
full bulk tray, probably in mil-boxes.

A.J.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread Charles MacDonald



From what I read, Svetlana operates out of Saratov using part of the

old Reflector factory. I could be mis-informed.



The trademark for svetlana is not owned by svetlana in the USA.  It is 
owned by the New Sensor folks who own the remains of the refector 
factory.  So REAL svetlana tubes are sold in the STates as "winged C"



--
Charles MacDonald Stittsville Ontario
cm...@zeusprune.ca  Just Beyond the Fringe
http://www.TelecomOttawa.net/~cmacd/
No Microsoft Products were used in sending this e-mail.

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[neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread Terry Kennedy


On Jun 26, 9:13 pm, Terry S  wrote:
> What makes you think Svetlana would have nixie tooling, and more
> specifically, IN-18 tooling?
> They no doubt have vacuum tube tooling, but the tooling specific to
> In-18's would not be part of that. Tooling for digits? Equipment for
> gas filling? Doubtful.

>From what I read, Svetlana operates out of Saratov using part of the
old Reflector factory. I could be mis-informed.

> Let's be realistic, no tube manufacturer is going to tool for, much
> less produce, at best, a few thousand nixies a year to satisfy the
> hobbyist crowd.

There are tube companies that make only hundreds of particular tube
type a year, using mostly hand techniques and simple machinery. Take a
look at this clip from the TV show "How It's Made" - this is a free
preview, but gets partway into the segment on tube building:

http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Tubes-Shredders-Model-Aircraft/dp/B004MJ10BI

Given that one CD47 sold for over $1300 on eBay recently, it would
seem to me that a manufacturer could make at least as much money as
they make on limited-production audio tubes by producing Nixies.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread Charles MacDonald

On 11-06-26 09:13 PM, Terry S wrote:


They no doubt have vacuum tube tooling, but the tooling specific to
In-18's would not be part of that. Tooling for digits? Equipment for
gas filling? Doubtful.



The two Soviet era firms still standing are reflector, and svetlana. 
Svetlana minly were in the power (transmiting) tube business.  There 
logo is a winged C (russian S) anyone ever see a Nixie with their logo?




--
Charles MacDonald Stittsville Ontario
cm...@zeusprune.ca  Just Beyond the Fringe
http://www.TelecomOttawa.net/~cmacd/
No Microsoft Products were used in sending this e-mail.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Powerline freq

2011-06-26 Thread Larry
Power companies may no longer keep the frequency exactly

my.earthlink.net/article/tec?guid=201106...92-875d-333c443bf009

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[neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread Terry S
What makes you think Svetlana would have nixie tooling, and more
specifically, IN-18 tooling?
They no doubt have vacuum tube tooling, but the tooling specific to
In-18's would not be part of that. Tooling for digits? Equipment for
gas filling? Doubtful.

Let's be realistic, no tube manufacturer is going to tool for, much
less produce, at best, a few thousand nixies a year to satisfy the
hobbyist crowd.

>
> If there is interest in the IN-18, Svetlana may even have existing
> tooling:http://www.svetlana-tubes.com/svetlana.htm
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread Robert B. Saltzman
back in the early seventies I paid $1.98 for two B7971's along with 
controller circuit board and sockets, from Meshna Electronics, a surplus 
house in New England.
I bought four boards (eight tubes and sockets).  I wish that I had had 
the forethought to have purchased 100 of them!


Four tubes are in service in one of my Weisling Four Letter Word's.

bob
- Original Message - 
From: "thatbrock" 

To: "neonixie-l" 
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 5:06 PM
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)


Interestingly, the cost of two B7971s from that ad ($8.88) would be
(only) $35.26 today*. Amazing.

Those days are definitely gone...


*http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?
cost1=8.88&year1=1976&year2=2011 


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re:Powerline freq

2011-06-26 Thread Michail1
Don't forget the light show.   Ok, not nixie tubes, but the laser  tubes 
were impressive.
 
Michail
 
 
In a message dated 6/26/2011 12:50:47 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
stosk...@tri.net writes:

Last  summer I visited the Grand Coulee dam.  They had one turbine  spinning
at the appropriate frequency with no load.  Idea is that if a  sudden load
increase occurred they would just kick in more water as they  added the
load almost instantly.

Lawrence  Stoskopf

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread Dmitri Vorobiev
Hi Nick,

It looks like the boxes aren't matching the nixies. To my
understanding, what was once in those boxes are the 6004 tubes:

http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6004.html

Like some other people in this email thread, I'm not buying the NOS
status claimed in the auction. The seller, judging by the other items
and selling history, isn't a vacuum tube or nixie expert, so he
probably can't tell if the box matches the contents.

Thanks,
Dmitri

On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:51 AM, Nick  wrote:
> On Jun 26, 5:55 am, Nicholas Stock  wrote:
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-Burroughs-B-7971-B7971-Nixie-Tube-Vintage-Rare...
>>
>> Too rich for my blood!
>
> Interesting - there is an NSN on the box - "5960-00-248-8501"
>
> Can anyone translate this to a mfg p/n? Best I can do is:
> http://5960.iso-group.com/NSN/5960-00-248-8501
>
> Nick
>
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>

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[neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread Nick
On Jun 26, 5:55 am, Nicholas Stock  wrote:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-Burroughs-B-7971-B7971-Nixie-Tube-Vintage-Rare...
>
> Too rich for my blood!

Interesting - there is an NSN on the box - "5960-00-248-8501"

Can anyone translate this to a mfg p/n? Best I can do is:
http://5960.iso-group.com/NSN/5960-00-248-8501

Nick

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[neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread Terry Kennedy
On Jun 26, 5:06 pm, thatbrock  wrote:
> Interestingly, the cost of two B7971s from that ad ($8.88) would be
> (only) $35.26 today*. Amazing.

Actually, the $8.88 price is for two boards with 2 tubes on each.

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[neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread Terry Kennedy
On Jun 26, 5:15 pm, jb-electronics 
wrote:
> But not only are the tubes getting more and more expensive, interesting
> Nixie tube listings on Ebay are getting rarer and rarer as well...

Which leads to an interesting thought - if the supply of additional
tubes is drying up, what is the possibility of commissioning the
manufacture of some new tubes? There are still companies producing
vacuum tubes (mostly in Eastern Europe) and with current eBay closing
prices, it would seem to be cost-effective to build and sell new ones.

What type(s) would people want? IN-18, B7971, or (dare I say it) CD47?
Something else?

If some eBay sellers are hoarding large quantities of true NOS tubes
(I suspect this is the case for the IN-18, far less so for the
others), just serious negotiations with a manufacturer about
restarting production might break the logjam.

I don't think doing this for VFD displays would be cost-effective, at
least not until prices rise considerably. IV-17 / IV-4's have all but
disappeared from eBay - it used to be possible to buy 100's at $1.50
each or less. There are a few listings now for small lots (4 or 6
tubes) at $3.00 each. I wonder if someone who plans on producing kits
(or assembled clocks) bought them all up? That would be a lot of tubes
- 2 years ago I had a quote from a Russian vendor with quantity
discount breaks up to 10,000 pieces.

If there is interest in the IN-18, Svetlana may even have existing
tooling:
http://www.svetlana-tubes.com/svetlana.htm

If that doesn't work out, perhaps a manufacturer like JJ Electronic
would be interested:
http://www.jj-electronic.com

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread jb-electronics
But not only are the tubes getting more and more expensive, interesting 
Nixie tube listings on Ebay are getting rarer and rarer as well...


Jens

Am 26.06.2011 23:06, schrieb thatbrock:

Interestingly, the cost of two B7971s from that ad ($8.88) would be
(only) $35.26 today*. Amazing.

Those days are definitely gone...


*http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?
cost1=8.88&year1=1976&year2=2011

On Jun 24, 4:39 pm, David Forbes  wrote:

On 6/24/11 8:33 AM, micha...@aol.com wrote:


Jeff,
Did you find a way to make them?
/me wondering where you come up with them all.
Michail

Buy low, sell high.

http://www.nixiebunny.com/b7971ad.jpg

These tubes were available in large quantities at a low price in 2002.

--
David Forbes, Tucson AZ


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[neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread thatbrock
Interestingly, the cost of two B7971s from that ad ($8.88) would be
(only) $35.26 today*. Amazing.

Those days are definitely gone...


*http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?
cost1=8.88&year1=1976&year2=2011

On Jun 24, 4:39 pm, David Forbes  wrote:
> On 6/24/11 8:33 AM, micha...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Jeff,
> > Did you find a way to make them?
> > /me wondering where you come up with them all.
> > Michail
>
> Buy low, sell high.
>
> http://www.nixiebunny.com/b7971ad.jpg
>
> These tubes were available in large quantities at a low price in 2002.
>
> --
> David Forbes, Tucson AZ

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[neonixie-l] Re:Powerline freq

2011-06-26 Thread stoskopf
Last summer I visited the Grand Coulee dam.  They had one turbine spinning
at the appropriate frequency with no load.  Idea is that if a sudden load
increase occurred they would just kick in more water as they added the
load almost instantly.

Lawrence Stoskopf

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[neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread MichaelB
Like the baby blue 'bird back drop, Jeff! Nice!

On Jun 26, 7:55 am, Jeff Thomas  wrote:
> On Jun 26, 6:44 am, Terry S  wrote:
>
> > The pins aren't exactly straight on those tubes, either.
>
> > I'm not buying the NOS status.
> > Terry
>
> I saw the same thing in image eight, and Terry had beat me to the pin
> observation.
> Adding to that the smudging of the label from cleaning the envelopes.
>
> I suppose he saw the recent sales activity and decided a few young
> paste-eater nixie fans would believe the NOS pitch.
>
> Those B7971 tubes, like John R noted, were packed in trays of 36.
> Maybe singles had a marked Burroughs box.
> I have a few of the trays. I snapped an image a moment 
> ago:http://www.amug.org/~jthomas/b7971tray.jpg
>
> Regards, Jeff

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[neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread MichaelB
Interesting... our boy has reduced his price to $399. Wonder if it had
anything to do with him receiving emails like this from me and others:

Dear appleibmlaseresearch,

Hi There, Curious how you account for those burn marks on your "NOS"
B7971 tubes?


On Jun 26, 7:34 am, micha...@aol.com wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Strange, I emailed him about it as well.  He did mention that it was  put
> in the mirror so that someone could see both sides.
>
> I thought that was strange, since they were laying down.  Meaning, you  
> would only see a reflection of the same side.
>
> So, maybe it wasn't done on purpose, but give me a break.  I  nearly bid
> 300 at the end myself.  It did make me reread the auction  several times.
>
> Strangely, he has done it with other auctions as well.  It seems risky  to
> do that without at least saying mirror.
>
> "Hello mister banker.  I would like to deposit my $200.    Umm, no, that is
> a mirror so you believe I have twice as much.   What  do you mean it will
> not work?"  I was just trying to get you to see both  sides of the top?
>
> Michail
>
> In a message dated 6/25/2011 11:24:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
>
> wa...@degeere.com writes:
>
> $445 for  4, maybe. Like that last auction that closed a day or two ago
> where the guy  put a mirror up to the two tubes, making it look like there 
> were
> four to a  casual buyer. That would be quite an ugly surprise when a box of
> two showed up  for the price of four.

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[neonixie-l] Re: US power grid frequency tests.

2011-06-26 Thread neutron spin
It's a conspiracy between Elm electronics the FERC.

http://www.elmelectronics.com/ebench.html#Oscillators

On 26 June, 11:35, J Forbes  wrote:
> We have about eight clocks here that we use to tell time at home
> regularlythey ALL are based on line frequency!
>
> Maybe we need to get a mast protest going, have everyone you know mail
> at least one line frequency based clock to Joe McClelland, head of
> electric reliability for the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.
>
> I wonder how many thousands (or millions) of clocks it would take for
> him to get the message?
>
> Jim

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[neonixie-l] Re: US power grid frequency tests.

2011-06-26 Thread J Forbes
We have about eight clocks here that we use to tell time at home
regularlythey ALL are based on line frequency!

Maybe we need to get a mast protest going, have everyone you know mail
at least one line frequency based clock to Joe McClelland, head of
electric reliability for the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.

I wonder how many thousands (or millions) of clocks it would take for
him to get the message?

Jim

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread jb-electronics

I once saw a batch of eight B-7971 tubes, all in Ultronics original boxes.

Jens

Am 26.06.2011 16:55, schrieb Jeff Thomas:


On Jun 26, 6:44 am, Terry S  wrote:

The pins aren't exactly straight on those tubes, either.

I'm not buying the NOS status.
Terry


I saw the same thing in image eight, and Terry had beat me to the pin
observation.
Adding to that the smudging of the label from cleaning the envelopes.

I suppose he saw the recent sales activity and decided a few young
paste-eater nixie fans would believe the NOS pitch.

Those B7971 tubes, like John R noted, were packed in trays of 36.
Maybe singles had a marked Burroughs box.
I have a few of the trays. I snapped an image a moment ago:
http://www.amug.org/~jthomas/b7971tray.jpg

Regards, Jeff



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[neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread Jeff Thomas


On Jun 26, 6:44 am, Terry S  wrote:
> The pins aren't exactly straight on those tubes, either.
>
> I'm not buying the NOS status.
> Terry
>

I saw the same thing in image eight, and Terry had beat me to the pin
observation.
Adding to that the smudging of the label from cleaning the envelopes.

I suppose he saw the recent sales activity and decided a few young
paste-eater nixie fans would believe the NOS pitch.

Those B7971 tubes, like John R noted, were packed in trays of 36.
Maybe singles had a marked Burroughs box.
I have a few of the trays. I snapped an image a moment ago:
http://www.amug.org/~jthomas/b7971tray.jpg

Regards, Jeff

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread Michail1
Hello,
 
Strange, I emailed him about it as well.  He did mention that it was  put 
in the mirror so that someone could see both sides.
 
I thought that was strange, since they were laying down.  Meaning, you  
would only see a reflection of the same side.
 
So, maybe it wasn't done on purpose, but give me a break.  I  nearly bid 
300 at the end myself.  It did make me reread the auction  several times.
 
Strangely, he has done it with other auctions as well.  It seems risky  to 
do that without at least saying mirror.
 
"Hello mister banker.  I would like to deposit my $200.Umm, no, that is 
a mirror so you believe I have twice as much.   What  do you mean it will 
not work?"  I was just trying to get you to see both  sides of the top?
 
Michail
 
 
In a message dated 6/25/2011 11:24:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
wa...@degeere.com writes:

$445 for  4, maybe. Like that last auction that closed a day or two ago 
where the guy  put a mirror up to the two tubes, making it look like there were 
four to a  casual buyer. That would be quite an ugly surprise when a box of 
two showed up  for the price of four.

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[neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread Terry S
The pins aren't exactly straight on those tubes, either.

I'm not buying the NOS status.
Terry

On Jun 26, 12:34 am, John Rehwinkel  wrote:
> > OK,  It appears they DO exist! I would like to see a shot of those
> > mummified relics before I become a true believer. And if they prove to
> > be real...a $445/2 believer, I will never be!
>
> I have seen some more convincing NOS auctions (the tubes packed 36 per carton 
> in styrofoam trays).
>
> These boxes aren't even for those tubes!
>
> - John

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: B7971's for sale (again)

2011-06-26 Thread Nicholas Stock
Not sure I understand... I always keep an eye on eBay for tube bargains.. 
Unfortunately those seem to be getting rarer these days as people are asking 
crazy prices for nixies etc

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 25, 2011, at 22:23, micha...@aol.com wrote:

> How did you find them so fast after posting?
>  
> In a message dated 6/25/2011 9:55:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 
> nickst...@gmail.com writes:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-Burroughs-B-7971-B7971-Nixie-Tube-Vintage-Rare-NOS-/280702018540?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item415b24e3ec#ht_1234wt_1141
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