Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...blacklists

[Mike Connors]

>
> Any question that more than one person has about a Linux related issue
> that is answered on this mailing list is valuable.  Openly attacking me
> on list when I cannot respond on list without being accused of hostile
> behavior is extremely rude and unacceptable.


Merely stating a historical pattern of observed behavior is not "openly
attacking you".
It's much like saying this has been the observed weather pattern.


  I am not hostile towards Keith, I am hostile towards calling God a woman
on

> list.  I stand by my comment that I hope Linus converts to some form of
> religion.  Believing in God makes it easier to accept God.  Aceepting
> that which one does not believe is probably the hardest thing to do, yet
> for the believer, it is no trouble at all.


 Believe that most of the modern conveniences that you enjoy were
researched, developed, and "created" by
people who don't believe in "God."


> For those who totally reject
> God, there is only Hell.
>

No, actually there's freedom and liberation from Religious oppression.

>
> Every thread that answers a question about a Linux or OSS related topic
> is a good thread for this list.  This thread does not pass this test and
> frankly, it needs to die.  If answering the questions of all but certain
> people, people who agree with you on everything, is offensive to you,
> this list is not for you.  If you can't agree to disagree and instead
> decide to openly attack a person who has been silent for days, you are
> not affecting this list in a good way.  Does anyone honestly think that
> I want to see attack posts from this list in my inbox day after day,
> week after week?  I don't.
>
> The statement that I am hostile towards this list is NOT a fair
> statement.  I have been hostile towards only political/religious
> statements which are technically not acceptable list material in the
> first place.  I have never been hostile towards people helping each
> other use Linux more effectively.


Politics and religion are not an appropriate topic for this list.
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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...blacklists

[Michael C. Robinson]

> This is a historically proven and very fair statement of his behavior on
> this mailing list. Not
> to mention that when people do attempt to help him he tends to very
> argumentative and always seems
> to have some unique situation, according to him, in which no one's
> suggestions can be successfully implemented.

Any question that more than one person has about a Linux related issue
that is answered on this mailing list is valuable.  Openly attacking me
on list when I cannot respond on list without being accused of hostile
behavior is extremely rude and unacceptable.  Is to be any semblance of
professionalism in this community at all?  I have been silent for days,
but still people are attacking me on list with arguably little to no
provocation at this point so that I have to speak out against it.
Offering help if I do not know the issue well enough to give reasonable
let alone correct advice is not help by the way.  Nowhere in the terms
of use for this list does it say that I am aware of, "you cannot ask for
help if you do not give help to others."

That people have to go after divisive threads that are over 10 years old
to accuse me of having a, "history of hostility," is ridiculous.  I am
not hostile towards Keith, I am hostile towards calling God a woman on
list.  I stand by my comment that I hope Linus converts to some form of
religion.  Believing in God makes it easier to accept God.  Aceepting
that which one does not believe is probably the hardest thing to do, yet
for the believer, it is no trouble at all.  For those who totally reject
God, there is only Hell.

Every thread that answers a question about a Linux or OSS related topic
is a good thread for this list.  This thread does not pass this test and
frankly, it needs to die.  If answering the questions of all but certain
people, people who agree with you on everything, is offensive to you,
this list is not for you.  If you can't agree to disagree and instead
decide to openly attack a person who has been silent for days, you are
not affecting this list in a good way.  Does anyone honestly think that
I want to see attack posts from this list in my inbox day after day,
week after week?  I don't.

The statement that I am hostile towards this list is NOT a fair
statement.  I have been hostile towards only political/religious
statements which are technically not acceptable list material in the
first place.  I have never been hostile towards people helping each
other use Linux more effectively.

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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...blacklists

[Mike Connors]

>
>
> He also asks a --lot-- of questions of this board. I don't think he's
> ever offered technical help to anyone on this board. He takes, and does
> not give back.
>

This is a historically proven and very fair statement of his behavior on
this mailing list. Not
to mention that when people do attempt to help him he tends to very
argumentative and always seems
to have some unique situation, according to him, in which no one's
suggestions can be successfully implemented.


>
> I suggest that anyone who answers his technical questions is
> inadvertently encouraging people who just take from a community, along
> with his general nasty demeanor. In my years here, I remember him saying
> "thank you" just once.
>
> Anyone who doesn't contribute to doesn't deserve to benefit,


> I understand people who have blacklisted him into their spam filters. I
> have now done so reluctantly. It is in essence "changing the channel"
> when he speaks. I am reluctant to do so -- as it risks ceding the tone
> of this list to people like him.
>
> I agree and it sucks a lot to do so and defeats the purpose of having a
community of support.
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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...blacklists

[Ronald Chmara]

On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Rob Saul  wrote:
> On 9/28/11 8:13 AM, MJang wrote:
>> "The nobel peace prize should not go to an atheist period."
>> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/pipermail/plug/2009-November/066037.html
> I wasn't going to join in this general fracas until I was reminded
> of the above statement.  It's too late, the 1962 Nobel Peace Prize
> was awarded to Linus Pauling.

It's a "Linus" conspiracy. Clearly.

Semi-related: anybody know a good way to create and read filtered *web pages*?

Say, I want to peruse the archives, for this list, and black-out
posts, or I want to surf 4chan, while not being able to accidentally
see (and thus download) CP.

Is there a DOM filtering browser tool out there?

Use case:
In a DOM tree, I want to filter on every n*r reference from the web
page, href, etc. Where I see: "goodstring" or "badstring".  Xpath kind
of works, but it's more of a searching system, not a developed content
system.

I guess the big hurdle is the "not this page" issue, where predictive
removal of something from a DOM would require chasing down every link,
and churning through the content...

-Bop
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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...blacklists

[Rob Saul]

On 9/28/11 8:13 AM, MJang wrote:
>
> "The nobel peace prize should not go to an atheist period."
>
> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/pipermail/plug/2009-November/066037.html

I wasn't going to join in this general fracas until I was reminded
of the above statement.  It's too late, the 1962 Nobel Peace Prize
was awarded to Linus Pauling.

semi-topical - I use dovecot + procmail to filter email quite
effectively.



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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...blacklists

[MJang]

On Wed, 2011-09-28 at 04:31 -0700, Michael Rasmussen wrote: 
> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 11:36:18PM -0700, Jason Barnett wrote:
> > I am constantly on the edge of unsubscribing to
> > this mailing list, despite all the GOOD information that is on it.  I have
> > found that the only way to deal with it is to have an autodelete filter for
> > any post that contains his name.  
> 
> For anyone keeping count, I'm did and do the same.

Even though my blacklist is now working w/r/t the individual in
question, I still find this thread -- astonishing.

He also asks a --lot-- of questions of this board. I don't think he's
ever offered technical help to anyone on this board. He takes, and does
not give back. 

I suggest that anyone who answers his technical questions is
inadvertently encouraging people who just take from a community, along
with his general nasty demeanor. In my years here, I remember him saying
"thank you" just once.

This thread, and his responses, is an overreaction about one person who
honored his wife in a very American way. Keith's reference to his wife
as a "God" who must be obeyed is a common American male view of
marriage. If you've ever seen her picture on Keith's laptop, it's clear
that he idolizes her. Keith has nothing to apologize for, and can be
proud of the way he honors his marriage, and his work to make his wife's
home office more efficient with Asterisk. 

The reacting individual in question has apparently been haunting this
list with his point of view since at least 2004, ref
http://lists.pdxlinux.org/pipermail/plug/2004-April/031297.html . So
he's apparently not going to stop soon. 

I understand people who have blacklisted him into their spam filters. I
have now done so reluctantly. It is in essence "changing the channel"
when he speaks. I am reluctant to do so -- as it risks ceding the tone
of this list to people like him.

Given his point of view, it's astonishing that he would use an operating
system created by an atheist. When Keith suggested that we nominate
Linus for the Nobel Peace Prize, this was his reaction:

http://lists.pdxlinux.org/pipermail/plug/2009-November/066037.html

"The nobel peace prize should not go to an atheist period."

He then compared Linus Torvalds to Mao Tse-Tung and Saddam Hussein. 

Thanks,
Mike

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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...blacklists

[Michael Rasmussen]

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 11:36:18PM -0700, Jason Barnett wrote:
> I am constantly on the edge of unsubscribing to
> this mailing list, despite all the GOOD information that is on it.  I have
> found that the only way to deal with it is to have an autodelete filter for
> any post that contains his name.  

For anyone keeping count, I'm did and do the same.

-- 
Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
  Other Adventures: http://www.jamhome.us/ or http://westy.saunter.us/
Fortune Cookie Fortune du jour:
I have a terrible sense of direction and get lost on a regular basis,
but at least with the GPS, I know precisely where I'm lost.
~  Bob Heath
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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...

[Fred James]

Jason Barnett wrote:
> Danial,
> I agree, however we have gone down this road a dozen times before... always
> with the same individual.  I am constantly on the edge of unsubscribing to
> this mailing list, despite all the GOOD information that is on it.  I have
> found that the only way to deal with it is to have an autodelete filter for
> any post that contains his name.  sometimes a few messages (like this one)
> get through, but it is much better than without the filter.
>
> Jason
>   
(omissions for brevity)

Jason Barnett
I have always hated that idea, but I have come to do the same.
I apologize to the group for my participation in this latest fray.
Regards
Fred James

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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...

[Michael C. Robinson]

1) 25% at least, arguably more, of the people on this planet believe 
as I do.  Besides, what about respect for minorities?

2) Tongue in cheek is not determinable when one is discussing email.  
What makes Keith putting religiously controversial statements on PLUG
right even if his statement was tongue in cheek?

3) Oregon is probably the least churched state in the entire country.
I've heard that as few as 30% of Oregonians regularly attend weekly
services.  Oregon is not at all, especially western Oregon,
representative of what people believe world wide let alone nation wide.
Saying that Oregon is representative is called lying or in some circles
just statistics.

4) Linus is an atheist last time I checked where I'd love to see him
convert.  It would make his chances of getting to heaven far greater.
So as far as picking ones battles, fighting atheism with the prospect of
influencing Linus could make a major difference in the world.  Linus
isn't the only atheist that would leave atheism most likely upon his
conversion.  Only God can ultimately convert Linus or anyone else for
that matter, but I can try to argue for and pray for his conversion.

5) I didn't pick this forum to argue the gender of God.  Keith did.
This is a major issue that nobody seems willing to address.  This needs
to be addressed, putting all the responsibility on me for this is wrong.

6) I have to stand and fight prejudice or it will just be there tomorrow
waiting for me.  It's not the gender issue I can't let go of so much as
the preferential treatment issue.  I bet nobody who is criticizing me
would be doing so if they agreed with my position.  Nobody is
criticizing Keith that I know of anywhere near the level that I am being
criticized at.

7) I have tried to reason with the community, but the people who have
written so far appear to be unreasonable.

8) What I really want is a statement against censoring people,
especially those who follow the rule Linux/Unix and/or the occasional
open source non-Linux topic.

Another thing, nobody is a "problem" in a truly diverse group of people.
Sure there are those who break the laws that society depends on to
function, but just annoying people doesn't rise to anywhere near that
level.  I'm sorry that people are bringing religious/political hostility
to this list where it typically takes two or more people for a fight to
start.  A sad day it will be if Linux becomes something that only jerks
talk about.  Jerks that are intolerant, unprofessional, and
inconsiderate.

Make no mistake, I will continue to argue for what needs to happen in
this community until the prejudice is stamped out.

> Not everyone believes as you, and you of all people should understand that in 
> this country, ALL beliefs are valued. The beliefs you are defending so 
> adamantly are held by a minority of humans on the earth. When you allow 
> others to believe what they wish, you will find that your relationship with 
> the other 7 billion people in the world will be much more pleasant. 
> 
> What you or I believe about the gender or non-gender of any supreme being is 
> irrelevant in the discussion of Linux.
> 
> My mother always taught me to 'Pick my battles'. This is not the time nor the 
> place to argue religion.
> 
> Keith made a tongue in cheek (I'm assuming here) remark, and you took the 
> bait. I don't know if he intended it as such or not. Stop taking the bait, 
> and the baiting will stop. You have as much control over letting it go as 
> anyone else. More so in fact, since you are the one taking the heat for 
> taking the bait. Let it go.
> 
> On Sep 27, 2011, at 2:14 PM, Michael C. Robinson wrote:
> 
> > Not until I am afforded the same privileges and respect as Keith
> > concerning this argument.
> 
> Russell Johnson
> r...@dimstar.net
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...

[Michael C. Robinson]

Talking about censoring someone on list when that person is following
the list is cyber bullying and it is wrong.  Someone please speak out
against the bullies.

> Danial,
> I agree, however we have gone down this road a dozen times before... always
> with the same individual.  I am constantly on the edge of unsubscribing to
> this mailing list, despite all the GOOD information that is on it.  I have
> found that the only way to deal with it is to have an autodelete filter for
> any post that contains his name.  sometimes a few messages (like this one)
> get through, but it is much better than without the filter.
> 
> Jason
> 
> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 9:44 PM, Daniel Pittman  wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 20:59, Benjamin Kerensa 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I'm unsure when this list became a religious or political debate forum
> > but last I checked this is a linux user group general mailing list. Can we
> > drop this argument shakehands and move on. There are better places and ways
> > to address such.
> >
> > It would, indeed, be awesome if folks could keep this off-topic
> > religious discussion off this list.
> >
> > Aside from anything else, this divisive and unpleasant tone drives
> > away valuable contributions and otherwise interesting members of the
> > list; it would be a shame if we let that happen.
> >
> > Daniel
> > --
> > ♲ Made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons
> > ___
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> > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org
> > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
> >
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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...

[Fernando Freire]

> I think you are wrong.  I have been trying to be a part of this list for
> years where trouble has been ongoing.  The Linux community may be
> welcoming somewhere else, but not here in Portland.

I hardly deem it necessary to post to this list, it's often far more
interesting to read what my
elders have to say and deal with; the few times I *have* posted I
haven't been treated with
any disrespect or hostility. It is merely a testament to your own
hostility and berating tone that
seem to earn you the ire of this list.

>I want to be a part
> of the Linux list in my community, but this community is very unchurched
> and way too liberal.  This invariably comes up one way or another over
> and over and over.  The liberals causing the problem, like Keith, are
> never criticized for their behavior and frankly they are never called on
> it.  Nobody ever says, "hey Keith, you are blatantly intolerant of the
> opposite viewpoint on an issue you shouldn't have brought up in the
> first place."  Keith and others have not just done this once, this
> happens over and over and over.  It is high time, it is past time for
> David Mandel or someone to take corrective action.

I admire your dogmatic adherence to your moral ethics and beliefs,
it's something that many
of us (myself included) lack today. What I cannot stand, however, is
your incessant need to fling
these beliefs in the face of contributors to the list, *regardless* of
whatever transgression you
may think they have committed. Simply because other members of the
list have broken the rules
does not justify your, often violent and uncalled for, reactions; if
you are truly a man of God then it
should be a simple matter of staying "above the influence". There's no
reason to poison this
discussion with inane ramblings about God, censorship, reactOS, or any
other babble that doesn't
pertain to a technical question. I think several other members have
attempted to make this point before.

I'd hate to perpetuate this discussion any further, but I want to be
perfectly clear with you here, Michael:
simply because I or other members of this list do not respond
immediately to your emails does not mean
we are in any way censoring your messages. I do, however, find your
questions to be arcane, esoteric, and
generally above my level of competence.

Above all else I am here to learn from the minds of greater Linux
practitioners than I, and I couldn't care less
what personal beliefs they hold. If you ever hope to get *any* sort of
help from this list, I suggest you start
 doing the same.

:FF:
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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...

[Russell Johnson]

Michael,

Not everyone believes as you, and you of all people should understand that in 
this country, ALL beliefs are valued. The beliefs you are defending so 
adamantly are held by a minority of humans on the earth. When you allow others 
to believe what they wish, you will find that your relationship with the other 
7 billion people in the world will be much more pleasant. 

What you or I believe about the gender or non-gender of any supreme being is 
irrelevant in the discussion of Linux.

My mother always taught me to 'Pick my battles'. This is not the time nor the 
place to argue religion.

Keith made a tongue in cheek (I'm assuming here) remark, and you took the bait. 
I don't know if he intended it as such or not. Stop taking the bait, and the 
baiting will stop. You have as much control over letting it go as anyone else. 
More so in fact, since you are the one taking the heat for taking the bait. Let 
it go.

On Sep 27, 2011, at 2:14 PM, Michael C. Robinson wrote:

> Not until I am afforded the same privileges and respect as Keith
> concerning this argument.

Russell Johnson
r...@dimstar.net



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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...

[Jason Barnett]

Danial,
I agree, however we have gone down this road a dozen times before... always
with the same individual.  I am constantly on the edge of unsubscribing to
this mailing list, despite all the GOOD information that is on it.  I have
found that the only way to deal with it is to have an autodelete filter for
any post that contains his name.  sometimes a few messages (like this one)
get through, but it is much better than without the filter.

Jason

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 9:44 PM, Daniel Pittman  wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 20:59, Benjamin Kerensa 
> wrote:
>
> > I'm unsure when this list became a religious or political debate forum
> but last I checked this is a linux user group general mailing list. Can we
> drop this argument shakehands and move on. There are better places and ways
> to address such.
>
> It would, indeed, be awesome if folks could keep this off-topic
> religious discussion off this list.
>
> Aside from anything else, this divisive and unpleasant tone drives
> away valuable contributions and otherwise interesting members of the
> list; it would be a shame if we let that happen.
>
> Daniel
> --
> ♲ Made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons
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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...

[Michael C. Robinson]

On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 21:44 -0700, Daniel Pittman wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 20:59, Benjamin Kerensa  wrote:
> 
> > I'm unsure when this list became a religious or political debate forum but 
> > last I checked this is a linux user group general mailing list. Can we drop 
> > this argument shakehands and move on. There are better places and ways to 
> > address such.
> 
> It would, indeed, be awesome if folks could keep this off-topic
> religious discussion off this list.
> 
> Aside from anything else, this divisive and unpleasant tone drives
> away valuable contributions and otherwise interesting members of the
> list; it would be a shame if we let that happen.
> 
> Daniel

You just did let that happen by making this comment.

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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...

[Michael C. Robinson]

Well Bill, you are wrong where trying to harass me privately is still
harassment.  At least by posting this on PLUG others can see that you
are clearly part of the problem and not part of the solution.  If people
do leave this list, it will not be because I tried to logically and
respectfully argue a different viewpoint to Keith's controversial and
wrong religious statement.  I'm still awaiting a community solution to
the Keith can use this as a political/religious rag problem.  If he is
allowed to do so, I should be allowed to do so along with anyone else
who wants to.  That is called free speech by the way.  If nobody should
be allowed to do this, then nobody includes Keith.  If I'm wrong and
people do leave this list because they are intolerant of reasonable and
correct religious beliefs, good riddance.

On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 21:49 -0700, Bill Ensley wrote:
> Michael,
> 
> There is a reason other lists kick you off.
> 
> I'm sorry you can't see it.
> 
> When you turn in a circle and everyone you see is wrong, perhaps it's 
> not them.
> 
> -Bill Ensley
> 
> On 9/27/2011 2:14 PM, Michael C. Robinson wrote:
> > Not until I am afforded the same privileges and respect as Keith
> > concerning this argument.  If Keith has a right to put blatant
> > and wrong religious statements on this Linux list, than anyone else
> > should have the right to disagree with him both openly and
> > intelligently.  Disproportionately blaming this argument on one person
> > is wrong, needs to stop, and it can only be stopped by the community.  I
> > am owed an apology for Keith's lack of professionalism and from other
> > people as well who know who they are.  I have been singled out for
> > censorship but Keith has not and the sad truth is, I really do need help
> > with Asterisk.  The only reason Keith started this argument is to get me
> > censored so that other people won't help me.  This wasn't a joke between
> > him and his wife, it was blatant trolling.  Why can't the community see
> > that and the list moderators reprimand him?
> >
> > On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 20:59 -0700, Benjamin Kerensa wrote:
> >> Hi Guys,
> >>
> >> I'm unsure when this list became a religious or political debate forum but 
> >> last I checked this is a linux user group general mailing list. Can we 
> >> drop this argument shakehands and move on. There are better places and 
> >> ways to address such.
> >>
> >> - Benjamin Kerensa
> >> Team Lead
> >> Ubuntu Oregon
> >
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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...

[Bill Ensley]

Michael,

There is a reason other lists kick you off.

I'm sorry you can't see it.

When you turn in a circle and everyone you see is wrong, perhaps it's 
not them.

-Bill Ensley

On 9/27/2011 2:14 PM, Michael C. Robinson wrote:
> Not until I am afforded the same privileges and respect as Keith
> concerning this argument.  If Keith has a right to put blatant
> and wrong religious statements on this Linux list, than anyone else
> should have the right to disagree with him both openly and
> intelligently.  Disproportionately blaming this argument on one person
> is wrong, needs to stop, and it can only be stopped by the community.  I
> am owed an apology for Keith's lack of professionalism and from other
> people as well who know who they are.  I have been singled out for
> censorship but Keith has not and the sad truth is, I really do need help
> with Asterisk.  The only reason Keith started this argument is to get me
> censored so that other people won't help me.  This wasn't a joke between
> him and his wife, it was blatant trolling.  Why can't the community see
> that and the list moderators reprimand him?
>
> On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 20:59 -0700, Benjamin Kerensa wrote:
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I'm unsure when this list became a religious or political debate forum but 
>> last I checked this is a linux user group general mailing list. Can we drop 
>> this argument shakehands and move on. There are better places and ways to 
>> address such.
>>
>> - Benjamin Kerensa
>> Team Lead
>> Ubuntu Oregon
>
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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...

[Daniel Pittman]

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 20:59, Benjamin Kerensa  wrote:

> I'm unsure when this list became a religious or political debate forum but 
> last I checked this is a linux user group general mailing list. Can we drop 
> this argument shakehands and move on. There are better places and ways to 
> address such.

It would, indeed, be awesome if folks could keep this off-topic
religious discussion off this list.

Aside from anything else, this divisive and unpleasant tone drives
away valuable contributions and otherwise interesting members of the
list; it would be a shame if we let that happen.

Daniel
-- 
♲ Made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons
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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...

[Michael C. Robinson]

> I'm unsure when this list became a religious or political debate forum but 
> last I checked this is a linux user group general mailing list. Can we drop 
> this argument shakehands and move on. There are better places and ways to 
> address such.
> 
> - Benjamin Kerensa
> Team Lead
> Ubuntu Oregon

I think you are wrong.  I have been trying to be a part of this list for
years where trouble has been ongoing.  The Linux community may be
welcoming somewhere else, but not here in Portland.  I want to be a part
of the Linux list in my community, but this community is very unchurched
and way too liberal.  This invariably comes up one way or another over
and over and over.  The liberals causing the problem, like Keith, are
never criticized for their behavior and frankly they are never called on
it.  Nobody ever says, "hey Keith, you are blatantly intolerant of the
opposite viewpoint on an issue you shouldn't have brought up in the
first place."  Keith and others have not just done this once, this
happens over and over and over.  It is high time, it is past time for
David Mandel or someone to take corrective action.

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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...

[Michael C. Robinson]

Not until I am afforded the same privileges and respect as Keith
concerning this argument.  If Keith has a right to put blatant 
and wrong religious statements on this Linux list, than anyone else 
should have the right to disagree with him both openly and
intelligently.  Disproportionately blaming this argument on one person
is wrong, needs to stop, and it can only be stopped by the community.  I
am owed an apology for Keith's lack of professionalism and from other
people as well who know who they are.  I have been singled out for
censorship but Keith has not and the sad truth is, I really do need help
with Asterisk.  The only reason Keith started this argument is to get me
censored so that other people won't help me.  This wasn't a joke between
him and his wife, it was blatant trolling.  Why can't the community see
that and the list moderators reprimand him?

On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 20:59 -0700, Benjamin Kerensa wrote:
> Hi Guys,
> 
> I'm unsure when this list became a religious or political debate forum but 
> last I checked this is a linux user group general mailing list. Can we drop 
> this argument shakehands and move on. There are better places and ways to 
> address such.
> 
> - Benjamin Kerensa
> Team Lead
> Ubuntu Oregon


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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...

[Benjamin Kerensa]

Hi Guys,

I'm unsure when this list became a religious or political debate forum but last 
I checked this is a linux user group general mailing list. Can we drop this 
argument shakehands and move on. There are better places and ways to address 
such.

- Benjamin Kerensa
Team Lead
Ubuntu Oregon



Sent from my Palm Pixi on AT&T
On Sep 27, 2011 8:46 PM, Fred James  wrote: 

Why is everything you do or say the fault of someone else ... do other 

people control you to that extent?

What universal hot line are you plugged into that you are so very sure 

of your knowledge?



It is irrelevant because the desperation for certainty insures desperate 

uncertainty ... but I don't expect you to understand that



I honestly don't care what gender you assign to your god/God, nor that 

you think that this is the god/God of any other person/persons.

Regards

Fred James



Michael C. Robinson wrote:

> With Keith's baiting of me to get others upset, why are you upset with

> me???  I really do need help figuring out how to get FXS connected

> telephone handsets to dial out.  I can dial to them, but I can't dial

> from them.

>

> Just so everyone is clear, "God is a man."  Second, He is the same God

> as your God because there is only one.  Third, women were judges and

> land owners 2000 years ago, so Christ could have called women to the

> priesthood if He wanted to.  Read the bible, Christ is clearly

> identified as a man and as God.  Check the historical records of ancient

> Rome, Christ is identified as a man.  And while we are on the subject if

> Keith has a privilege to post religious opinions that people won't

> censor, than I should be allowed to do the same without facing

> censorship.  Maybe Keith you should be more professional and avoid

> religious/political controversy on a technical support list.  If you and

> your wife want to call God a woman despite overwhelming evidence to the

> contrary, please do it elsewhere.

>

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Re: [PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...

[Fred James]

Why is everything you do or say the fault of someone else ... do other 
people control you to that extent?
What universal hot line are you plugged into that you are so very sure 
of your knowledge?

It is irrelevant because the desperation for certainty insures desperate 
uncertainty ... but I don't expect you to understand that

I honestly don't care what gender you assign to your god/God, nor that 
you think that this is the god/God of any other person/persons.
Regards
Fred James

Michael C. Robinson wrote:
> With Keith's baiting of me to get others upset, why are you upset with
> me???  I really do need help figuring out how to get FXS connected
> telephone handsets to dial out.  I can dial to them, but I can't dial
> from them.
>
> Just so everyone is clear, "God is a man."  Second, He is the same God
> as your God because there is only one.  Third, women were judges and
> land owners 2000 years ago, so Christ could have called women to the
> priesthood if He wanted to.  Read the bible, Christ is clearly
> identified as a man and as God.  Check the historical records of ancient
> Rome, Christ is identified as a man.  And while we are on the subject if
> Keith has a privilege to post religious opinions that people won't
> censor, than I should be allowed to do the same without facing
> censorship.  Maybe Keith you should be more professional and avoid
> religious/political controversy on a technical support list.  If you and
> your wife want to call God a woman despite overwhelming evidence to the
> contrary, please do it elsewhere.
>
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[PLUG] I really do need help with Asterisk...

[Michael C. Robinson]

With Keith's baiting of me to get others upset, why are you upset with
me???  I really do need help figuring out how to get FXS connected
telephone handsets to dial out.  I can dial to them, but I can't dial
from them.

Just so everyone is clear, "God is a man."  Second, He is the same God
as your God because there is only one.  Third, women were judges and
land owners 2000 years ago, so Christ could have called women to the
priesthood if He wanted to.  Read the bible, Christ is clearly
identified as a man and as God.  Check the historical records of ancient
Rome, Christ is identified as a man.  And while we are on the subject if
Keith has a privilege to post religious opinions that people won't
censor, than I should be allowed to do the same without facing
censorship.  Maybe Keith you should be more professional and avoid
religious/political controversy on a technical support list.  If you and
your wife want to call God a woman despite overwhelming evidence to the
contrary, please do it elsewhere.

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