Re: Mate for CentOS 8 (thanks)

[Yasha Karant]

I also use MATE, and often issue direct text based commands in the 
standard Linux CLI, bash (that has enough csh and korn shell features to 
make it useful).  I do install a number of KDE GUI utilities as some of 
the KDE programs do what I need.  Now that Ubuntu 20 LTS is in 
production, I shall be updating my wife's Ubuntu 18 LTS machine to 
Ubuntu 20 LTS; my understanding is that unlike EL for which a major 
release upgrade requires a new install (for which the simplest thing in 
most machines is to install a new "fresh" harddrive, install EL N++ from 
media -- typically a bootable USB "thumb drive", and then using the old 
drive, recursively copy /home and other non-systems directories onto the 
new system drive for a laptop, I use an external USB "drive holder" to 
access the drive), LTS allows one to upgrade from major release N to 
major release N++ (e.g., 18 to 20) in place.  A number of LTS users have 
informed me that they routinely do this with no ill consequences.


Ubuntu (Canonical) advertises:  Canonical is the publisher of Ubuntu, 
the OS for most public cloud workloads as well as the emerging 
categories of smart gateways, self-driving cars and advanced robots.  Is 
this advert factual?  If so, why is HEP staying with EL -- is it inertia 
or are there significant stability advantages to EL over LTS?


Yasha Karant

On 5/19/20 10:23 PM, Konstantin Olchanski wrote:

Metoo. I use the MATE desktop, as the least annoying of all
desktops available on all three of el6, el7 and Ubuntu LTS 18.04.

As for el8, officially everything except some gnome is removed,
KDE was never available, probably still not available, so meh.

FWIW, I am evaluating el8 and ubuntu LTS 20.04 in parallel, so far,
el8/ubuntu package versions: python 3.6/3.8, gcc 8.x/9.x, php 7.2/7.4;
Ubuntu can boot from zfs (18.04 you have to follow a check list, 20.04
supposedly the installer can install straight to ZFS). On el8 I will not even 
try
boot from ZFS, for sure there is some systemd bogosity that will
prevent it from working (like systemd refused to boot from degraded btrfs).

Sorry to bring this up again, but other than for nostalgia and inertia,
there is not much point to el8.

K.O.


On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 09:48:28PM -0700, Keith Lofstrom wrote:

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 4:45 PM Keith Lofstrom  wrote:

I've done my feeble best to compile Mate for CentOS 8; my
result is not completely broken, but not ready for use.
Some of the graphics fails.  "Mate8" seems to leak memory.

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 05:08:34PM -0700, Akemi Yagi wrote:

There is a thread on the CentOS mailing list about Mate for el8 that you
may want to take a look:

lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2020-May/350284.html

Thanks for that;  about six messages down that thread is
a pointer to a webpage discussing compiled packages:

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__copr.fedoracloud.org_coprs_stenstorp_MATE&d=DwIBAg&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=Q6LCVHs6caad7nOhlIGsnO-ZZUhyem88W6GHqfhenh8&s=7XyJM3wNZhcVzu5ozYZvc9sKtl4zp0lRlr7HMXiXXP8&e=

I will copy my borked home compilations to backups, then
install that version of MATE.  Many of us are installing
MATE; I probably made my clumsy attempts prematurely.



To others who suggest alternate ways to use linux ... thanks,
but I'm an old dog, and a gnome2 user since it was a puppy.
MATE comes closest.

My "new trick" schedule is overloaded with math and physics
skills that I hope to learn soon, skills that would have
been much easier to learn 50 years ago.

-

Finding the gnome3 text rendering flaw will be more difficult.
That flaw is why my subnotebooks still run SL6.


Keith

--
Keith Lofstrom  kei...@keithl.com

Re: Mate for CentOS 8 (thanks)

[Konstantin Olchanski]

Metoo. I use the MATE desktop, as the least annoying of all
desktops available on all three of el6, el7 and Ubuntu LTS 18.04.

As for el8, officially everything except some gnome is removed,
KDE was never available, probably still not available, so meh.

FWIW, I am evaluating el8 and ubuntu LTS 20.04 in parallel, so far,
el8/ubuntu package versions: python 3.6/3.8, gcc 8.x/9.x, php 7.2/7.4;
Ubuntu can boot from zfs (18.04 you have to follow a check list, 20.04
supposedly the installer can install straight to ZFS). On el8 I will not even 
try
boot from ZFS, for sure there is some systemd bogosity that will
prevent it from working (like systemd refused to boot from degraded btrfs).

Sorry to bring this up again, but other than for nostalgia and inertia,
there is not much point to el8.

K.O.


On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 09:48:28PM -0700, Keith Lofstrom wrote:
> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 4:45 PM Keith Lofstrom  wrote:
> > I've done my feeble best to compile Mate for CentOS 8; my
> > result is not completely broken, but not ready for use.
> > Some of the graphics fails.  "Mate8" seems to leak memory.
> 
> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 05:08:34PM -0700, Akemi Yagi wrote:
> > There is a thread on the CentOS mailing list about Mate for el8 that you
> > may want to take a look:
> > 
> > lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2020-May/350284.html
> 
> Thanks for that;  about six messages down that thread is
> a pointer to a webpage discussing compiled packages:
> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__copr.fedoracloud.org_coprs_stenstorp_MATE&d=DwIBAg&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=Q6LCVHs6caad7nOhlIGsnO-ZZUhyem88W6GHqfhenh8&s=7XyJM3wNZhcVzu5ozYZvc9sKtl4zp0lRlr7HMXiXXP8&e=
>  
> 
> I will copy my borked home compilations to backups, then
> install that version of MATE.  Many of us are installing
> MATE; I probably made my clumsy attempts prematurely.
> 
> 
> 
> To others who suggest alternate ways to use linux ... thanks,
> but I'm an old dog, and a gnome2 user since it was a puppy.
> MATE comes closest.  
> 
> My "new trick" schedule is overloaded with math and physics
> skills that I hope to learn soon, skills that would have
> been much easier to learn 50 years ago.
> 
> -
> 
> Finding the gnome3 text rendering flaw will be more difficult. 
> That flaw is why my subnotebooks still run SL6.
> 
> 
> Keith
> 
> -- 
> Keith Lofstrom  kei...@keithl.com

-- 
Konstantin Olchanski
Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow!
Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca
Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada

Re: Mate for CentOS 8 (thanks)

[Arthur H. Edwards]

I'm just wondering why there isn't a gnome-flashback package, similar to the 
Ubuntu package? gnome-flashback is essentially gnome-2.

Thanks,

Art Edwards

-- 
  Arthur H. Edwards
  edwards...@fastmail.fm

On Tue, May 19, 2020, at 10:48 PM, Keith Lofstrom wrote:
> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 4:45 PM Keith Lofstrom  wrote:
> > I've done my feeble best to compile Mate for CentOS 8; my
> > result is not completely broken, but not ready for use.
> > Some of the graphics fails.  "Mate8" seems to leak memory.
> 
> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 05:08:34PM -0700, Akemi Yagi wrote:
> > There is a thread on the CentOS mailing list about Mate for el8 that you
> > may want to take a look:
> > 
> > lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2020-May/350284.html
> 
> Thanks for that;  about six messages down that thread is
> a pointer to a webpage discussing compiled packages:
> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__copr.fedoracloud.org_coprs_stenstorp_MATE&d=DwIBAg&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=Q6LCVHs6caad7nOhlIGsnO-ZZUhyem88W6GHqfhenh8&s=7XyJM3wNZhcVzu5ozYZvc9sKtl4zp0lRlr7HMXiXXP8&e=
>  
> 
> I will copy my borked home compilations to backups, then
> install that version of MATE.  Many of us are installing
> MATE; I probably made my clumsy attempts prematurely.
> 
> 
> 
> To others who suggest alternate ways to use linux ... thanks,
> but I'm an old dog, and a gnome2 user since it was a puppy.
> MATE comes closest.  
> 
> My "new trick" schedule is overloaded with math and physics
> skills that I hope to learn soon, skills that would have
> been much easier to learn 50 years ago.
> 
> -
> 
> Finding the gnome3 text rendering flaw will be more difficult. 
> That flaw is why my subnotebooks still run SL6.
> 
> 
> Keith
> 
> -- 
> Keith Lofstrom  kei...@keithl.com
>

Desired packages

[Arthur H. Edwards]

I'm running SL7. Is there a kbibtex package? is there a gnuplot-qt package? 

Art Edwards

-- 
  Arthur H. Edwards
  edwards...@fastmail.fm

Re: Mate for CentOS 8 (thanks)

[Keith Lofstrom]

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 4:45 PM Keith Lofstrom  wrote:
> I've done my feeble best to compile Mate for CentOS 8; my
> result is not completely broken, but not ready for use.
> Some of the graphics fails.  "Mate8" seems to leak memory.

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 05:08:34PM -0700, Akemi Yagi wrote:
> There is a thread on the CentOS mailing list about Mate for el8 that you
> may want to take a look:
> 
> lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2020-May/350284.html

Thanks for that;  about six messages down that thread is
a pointer to a webpage discussing compiled packages:

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__copr.fedoracloud.org_coprs_stenstorp_MATE&d=DwIBAg&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=Q6LCVHs6caad7nOhlIGsnO-ZZUhyem88W6GHqfhenh8&s=7XyJM3wNZhcVzu5ozYZvc9sKtl4zp0lRlr7HMXiXXP8&e=
 

I will copy my borked home compilations to backups, then
install that version of MATE.  Many of us are installing
MATE; I probably made my clumsy attempts prematurely.



To others who suggest alternate ways to use linux ... thanks,
but I'm an old dog, and a gnome2 user since it was a puppy.
MATE comes closest.  

My "new trick" schedule is overloaded with math and physics
skills that I hope to learn soon, skills that would have
been much easier to learn 50 years ago.

-

Finding the gnome3 text rendering flaw will be more difficult. 
That flaw is why my subnotebooks still run SL6.


Keith

-- 
Keith Lofstrom  kei...@keithl.com

Re: Mate for CentOS 8

[Nico Kadel-Garcia]

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 8:29 PM Teh, Kenneth M.
<0864eace5c83-dmarc-requ...@listserv.fnal.gov> wrote:
>
> This is probably heresy to you but I'll pitch it anyway. I'm also a terminal, 
> command line person, having started with AIX in '89, and VMS before that.
>
> I've been using Fedora with gnome 3 now for the past 3 years after I ran into 
> problems with outdated development tools.  It is surprisingly very command 
> line friendly. I invoke all my apps from the keyboard  The Super (Windows) 
> key is your friend.  Hit Super and type the name of the app, and up pops its 
> window.  And it does name completion as well showing your possible matched 
> options after having typed only the first few letters of the app's name. And 
> if you don't care to type the name, super and tab to "scroll" down the icons 
> of your favorites on the dock, and hit return.
>
> And since CentOS is essentially Fedora-based, the file layouts are identical. 
> I remember struggling to find files, even the package names when I had to put 
> Ubuntu on a newly-bought laptop.
>
> My biggest concern was the rapid obsolescence. But I've learned to deal with 
> it.  The upgrade is painless and the dnf system-upgrade has worked without 
> any problems from 27 to 31 which is where I am now.
>
> Well, just my 2 bits.
>
> Good luck.

It's why I publish RPM building tools for vtwm, at
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_nkadel_vtwm-2D5.5.x-2Dsrpm&d=DwIFaQ&c=gRgGjJ3BkIsb5y6s49QqsA&r=gd8BzeSQcySVxr0gDWSEbN-P-pgDXkdyCtaMqdCgPPdW1cyL5RIpaIYrCn8C5x2A&m=86AkxVobOiiYnsxjJOrEG0fPeEVdv7MJpk7i13eP6to&s=KKB9w_jCPp3S4gTfQXVLVQL4ob76veSK8uFfQU0CeSA&e=
  Still works fine on CentOS
8, SL 7, and Fedora 32. It's *amazing* how much more stable software
can be when you KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid!)

Re: Mate for CentOS 8

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

This is probably heresy to you but I'll pitch it anyway. I'm also a terminal, 
command line person, having started with AIX in '89, and VMS before that.

I've been using Fedora with gnome 3 now for the past 3 years after I ran into 
problems with outdated development tools.  It is surprisingly very command line 
friendly. I invoke all my apps from the keyboard  The Super (Windows) key is 
your friend.  Hit Super and type the name of the app, and up pops its window.  
And it does name completion as well showing your possible matched options after 
having typed only the first few letters of the app's name. And if you don't 
care to type the name, super and tab to "scroll" down the icons of your 
favorites on the dock, and hit return.

And since CentOS is essentially Fedora-based, the file layouts are identical. I 
remember struggling to find files, even the package names when I had to put 
Ubuntu on a newly-bought laptop.

My biggest concern was the rapid obsolescence. But I've learned to deal with 
it.  The upgrade is painless and the dnf system-upgrade has worked without any 
problems from 27 to 31 which is where I am now.

Well, just my 2 bits.

Good luck.



From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov 
 on behalf of Akemi Yagi 

Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 7:08 PM
To: kei...@keithl.com
Cc: Mailing list for Scientific Linux users worldwide
Subject: Re: Mate for CentOS 8

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 4:45 PM Keith Lofstrom 
mailto:kei...@kl-ic.com>> wrote:
I still haven't learned how to tweak Gnome 3 so it looks
and operates like Gnome 2.

I dislike video games, which most user desktops seem to
be evolving towards.  I dislike icons replacing text;
I learned to read decades ago, and I can't grep icons.

I use Mate (a gnome 2 clone with gnome 3 underneath)
for my large-screen SL7 systems; works OK.

I've done my feeble best to compile Mate for CentOS 8; my
result is not completely broken, but not ready for use.
Some of the graphics fails.  "Mate8" seems to leak memory.

Mate character rendering (SL7 and C8) is fuzzy, just like
all gnome3 character rendering.  No big deal on a 4K*X
pixel screen, quite a problem on a portable 1K*X pixel
screen.  Xterm renders fine, as sharp as gnome2, but
xterm isn't as versatile as gnome2- and mate-terminal.

Are there other Gnome2/Mate dinosaurs on this list?

Perhaps we can combine efforts so the gaping holes in our
understanding don't completely overlap.  If nothing else,
perhaps we can develop a list of setup steps to disinfect
gnome3 and make it smell less gamy.

Then we can go back to our research, and stop distracting
others from their tweets, popup ads, and cute cat videos.

Keith

--
Keith Lofstrom  kei...@keithl.com

There is a thread on the CentOS mailing list about Mate for el8 that you may 
want to take a look:

lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2020-May/350284.html

Akemi

Re: Mate for CentOS 8

[Akemi Yagi]

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 4:45 PM Keith Lofstrom  wrote:

> I still haven't learned how to tweak Gnome 3 so it looks
> and operates like Gnome 2.
>
> I dislike video games, which most user desktops seem to
> be evolving towards.  I dislike icons replacing text;
> I learned to read decades ago, and I can't grep icons.
>
> I use Mate (a gnome 2 clone with gnome 3 underneath)
> for my large-screen SL7 systems; works OK.
>
> I've done my feeble best to compile Mate for CentOS 8; my
> result is not completely broken, but not ready for use.
> Some of the graphics fails.  "Mate8" seems to leak memory.
>
> Mate character rendering (SL7 and C8) is fuzzy, just like
> all gnome3 character rendering.  No big deal on a 4K*X
> pixel screen, quite a problem on a portable 1K*X pixel
> screen.  Xterm renders fine, as sharp as gnome2, but
> xterm isn't as versatile as gnome2- and mate-terminal.
>
> Are there other Gnome2/Mate dinosaurs on this list?
>
> Perhaps we can combine efforts so the gaping holes in our
> understanding don't completely overlap.  If nothing else,
> perhaps we can develop a list of setup steps to disinfect
> gnome3 and make it smell less gamy.
>
> Then we can go back to our research, and stop distracting
> others from their tweets, popup ads, and cute cat videos.
>
> Keith
>
> --
> Keith Lofstrom  kei...@keithl.com


There is a thread on the CentOS mailing list about Mate for el8 that you
may want to take a look:

lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2020-May/350284.html

Akemi

Mate for CentOS 8

[Keith Lofstrom]

I still haven't learned how to tweak Gnome 3 so it looks
and operates like Gnome 2. 

I dislike video games, which most user desktops seem to
be evolving towards.  I dislike icons replacing text;
I learned to read decades ago, and I can't grep icons.
 
I use Mate (a gnome 2 clone with gnome 3 underneath)
for my large-screen SL7 systems; works OK. 

I've done my feeble best to compile Mate for CentOS 8; my
result is not completely broken, but not ready for use.
Some of the graphics fails.  "Mate8" seems to leak memory.

Mate character rendering (SL7 and C8) is fuzzy, just like
all gnome3 character rendering.  No big deal on a 4K*X
pixel screen, quite a problem on a portable 1K*X pixel
screen.  Xterm renders fine, as sharp as gnome2, but
xterm isn't as versatile as gnome2- and mate-terminal.

Are there other Gnome2/Mate dinosaurs on this list?

Perhaps we can combine efforts so the gaping holes in our
understanding don't completely overlap.  If nothing else,
perhaps we can develop a list of setup steps to disinfect
gnome3 and make it smell less gamy.  

Then we can go back to our research, and stop distracting
others from their tweets, popup ads, and cute cat videos.

Keith

-- 
Keith Lofstrom  kei...@keithl.com

exim missing file error

[Stephen Isard]

I have an SL7.8 laptop that runs exim for internal email - messages 
to/from root about cron jobs, that sort of thing.  Exim doesn't handle 
any mail to or from the outside.  There was an upgrade to 
exim-4.93-2.el7.x86_64 a few days ago, and since then messages of the 
form


DMARC failure to load tld list 
'/usr/share/publicsuffix/public_suffix_list.dat': No such file or directory

have been appearing the exim logs.  'yum provides' doesn't 
list any package as providing that file.


As far as I can tell, no mail has been getting lost.  But why should 
there be an appeal to DMARC for internal mail anyway?


Stephen Isard

Distribution Servers Downtime - 5 hours on May 20, 2020

[Patrick Riehecky]

Hello,

The Scientific Linux distribution servers will be unavailable for
about 5 hours at May 20 2020 03:00 CDT (Chicago).

Downloads, yum operations, and mirror syncs will fail against the
following hosts:

* rsync.scientificlinux.org
* ftp.scientificlinux.org
* ftp1.scientificlinux.org
* ftp2.scientificlinux.org


For your local time you can run date -d '2020-05-19 03:00 CDT'

Thank you for your patience while we perform this maintenance.

SL Team