Re: .NET and Struts...
I aggree, but I guess it's easy to know how to build a better class library when there is one already out there you can "model". VS.NET is a pig as far as eating up processor and RAM but man, can those guys ever make an excellent development studio. One of my favorite features of VB.NET that Java doesn't have is automatic "boxing" of primitive types. Basically the compiler will treat your "int" variable as an object if you use it like an object, or it will treat it as a primitive if you use it like a primitive. Craig. - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 11:31 AM Subject: .NET and Struts... > i'm a long time unix/c/c++/java/jsp developer, but honestly, my > experience with .NET in its short time since beta 2 release has been > very eye-opening. all of the usual features you'd expect from msft in > terms of whizbang gui features are all there of course, in > VS.NET. even more impressive to me is the .NET framework and its > associated class libraries. it's a massive effort with massive > developer/design hours invested. i have yet to find something in > java's sdk class lib that isn't already in .NET. in fact, .NET > arguably already has a better class library, including such basic > features such as built-in Regex support that's missing from > sun. that's just a start. > > i'm not tooting msft here at all - just trying to be informative. if > anything, i'm saddened that there's less and less that seems to be > able to defend against the msft monopoly/juggernaut. ;) > > > jae > > Craig Tataryn writes: > > Hi all, I just wanted to give an observation and perhaps propose another "ToDo". I recently attended a ".NET roadshow" seminar in Minneapolis (btw: not worth the money, just buy a book and read it, all the instructors did was read the slides to us).
RE: .NET and Struts...
regexp will be there soon. It's been around for a while as a freely available gnu package and there's one other called ORA match, but now Sun has it as well. >arguably already has a better class library, including such basic >features such as built-in Regex support that's missing from >sun. that's just a start. So that's not a start. Come up with something else to help us see your point. http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4/docs/api/java/util/regex/package-summary.html -Original Message- From: Jae W. Chang [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 12:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: .NET and Struts... i'm a long time unix/c/c++/java/jsp developer, but honestly, my experience with .NET in its short time since beta 2 release has been very eye-opening. all of the usual features you'd expect from msft in terms of whizbang gui features are all there of course, in VS.NET. even more impressive to me is the .NET framework and its associated class libraries. it's a massive effort with massive developer/design hours invested. i have yet to find something in java's sdk class lib that isn't already in .NET. in fact, .NET arguably already has a better class library, including such basic features such as built-in Regex support that's missing from sun. that's just a start. i'm not tooting msft here at all - just trying to be informative. if anything, i'm saddened that there's less and less that seems to be able to defend against the msft monopoly/juggernaut. ;) jae Craig Tataryn writes: > Hi all, I just wanted to give an observation and perhaps propose another "ToDo". I recently attended a ".NET roadshow" seminar in Minneapolis (btw: not worth the money, just buy a book and read it, all the instructors did was read the slides to us).
.NET and Struts...
i'm a long time unix/c/c++/java/jsp developer, but honestly, my experience with .NET in its short time since beta 2 release has been very eye-opening. all of the usual features you'd expect from msft in terms of whizbang gui features are all there of course, in VS.NET. even more impressive to me is the .NET framework and its associated class libraries. it's a massive effort with massive developer/design hours invested. i have yet to find something in java's sdk class lib that isn't already in .NET. in fact, .NET arguably already has a better class library, including such basic features such as built-in Regex support that's missing from sun. that's just a start. i'm not tooting msft here at all - just trying to be informative. if anything, i'm saddened that there's less and less that seems to be able to defend against the msft monopoly/juggernaut. ;) jae Craig Tataryn writes: > Hi all, I just wanted to give an observation and perhaps propose another "ToDo". I >recently attended a ".NET roadshow" seminar in Minneapolis (btw: not worth the money, >just buy a book and read it, all the instructors did was read the slides to us).
Re: .NET and Struts...
Something to keep your eye on in this vein is JavaServer Faces: http://jcp.org/jsr/detail/127.jsp It's still in a very early stage of development, but there was a brief demo at JavaOne a few months ago, and it looked pretty cool. -- Martin Cooper - Original Message - From: "Craig Tataryn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 10:21 AM Subject: .NET and Struts... Hi all, I just wanted to give an observation and perhaps propose another "ToDo". I recently attended a ".NET roadshow" seminar in Minneapolis (btw: not worth the money, just buy a book and read it, all the instructors did was read the slides to us). Anyway, the thing I got the most out of was when they were displaying the features of Visual Studio 7.0. Specifically when creating "Web Forms". You basically create a form like you normally would for a windows application, except that the controls you select from are html controls. You then go about coding your events like you would a normal form. The IDE would then compile your application and create an ASPX page that displayed your form and a class file that would be used to handle events on the form (on the server side). So the compilier actually generates javascript code which will make calls out to the server when things like the "lostFocus" even happens on a text box, or the "Click" event happened on a button. Now people were really impressed with the fact that you could just code this program like you would a normal "VB" form, putting statements in event hanlders like "Text1.text = Text2.text" and have the view (the ASPX rendered HTML) display the changes. Now struts already does this type of binding for us (i.e myForm.text1 = myForm.text2), all we are missing is the nice GUI that allows us to "forget" we are writing a web application. I know JBuilder has extenisbility objects to allow you to hook into the IDE, does anyone here have exprience coding the JBuilder object model? I think this would make a good TODO because it allows "average" users the ability to create struts web apps without having to know too much about servlets, thus bringing struts to a wider audience. Let me know what you think.
RE: .NET and Struts...
You are correct in that it generates Model 1 code. However, it is easily extensible, and I believe we (the struts community) could probably write extensions to make it work as a "Struts IDE" with drag/drop and the works! I've never written a UltraDev extension, so I'm not volunteering, but I'd be willing to help someone who knows more about it. Matt -Original Message- From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 12:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: .NET and Struts... There's a project concerning this at TagLibs. http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs/doc/ultradev4-doc/intro.html The DreamWeaver UltraDev is a very impressive package. But last I looked it was still generating model 1 code ;-) Matt Raible wrote: > > I would actually recommend writing more struts-extensions for Dreamweaver > UltraDev. It's a great HTML/JSP editor, has a 78% marketshare (Dreamweaver > does) and is easily extendible. > > I've been to Macromedia Dreamweaver seminars before, and they make creating > "webforms" in jsps/asps look VERY easy. > > Matt > > --- James Holmes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Craig-- > > > > I've been working on a "Struts Console" which is a > > GUI-based front-end for Struts. Right now the > > functionality is limited to editing the > > struts-config.xml, but I have aspirations of much > > more. > > > > For instance I plan to have: > > > > + ability to build new form beans from JSPs (utilize > > CodeMaker or the like) > > > > + ability to manage Application Resources files > > > > + etc, etc > > > > Certainly this could evolve into a full featured > > application that would make developing Struts > > applications very easy. > > > > -james > > > > --- Craig Tataryn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi all, I just wanted to give an observation and > > > perhaps propose another "ToDo". I recently attended > > > a ".NET roadshow" seminar in Minneapolis (btw: not > > > worth the money, just buy a book and read it, all > > > the instructors did was read the slides to us). > > > > > > Anyway, the thing I got the most out of was when > > > they were displaying the features of Visual Studio > > > 7.0. Specifically when creating "Web Forms". You > > > basically create a form like you normally would for > > > a windows application, except that the controls you > > > select from are html controls. You then go about > > > coding your events like you would a normal form. > > > > > > The IDE would then compile your application and > > > create an ASPX page that displayed your form and a > > > class file that would be used to handle events on > > > the form (on the server side). So the compilier > > > actually generates javascript code which will make > > > calls out to the server when things like the > > > "lostFocus" even happens on a text box, or the > > > "Click" event happened on a button. > > > > > > Now people were really impressed with the fact that > > > you could just code this program like you would a > > > normal "VB" form, putting statements in event > > > hanlders like "Text1.text = Text2.text" and have the > > > view (the ASPX rendered HTML) display the changes. > > > Now struts already does this type of binding for us > > > (i.e myForm.text1 = myForm.text2), all we are > > > missing is the nice GUI that allows us to "forget" > > > we are writing a web application. > > > > > > I know JBuilder has extenisbility objects to allow > > > you to hook into the IDE, does anyone here have > > > exprience coding the JBuilder object model? > > > > > > I think this would make a good TODO because it > > > allows "average" users the ability to create struts > > > web apps without having to know too much about > > > servlets, thus bringing struts to a wider audience. > > > > > > Let me know what you think. > > > > > >
Re: .NET and Struts...
There's a project concerning this at TagLibs. http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs/doc/ultradev4-doc/intro.html The DreamWeaver UltraDev is a very impressive package. But last I looked it was still generating model 1 code ;-) Matt Raible wrote: > > I would actually recommend writing more struts-extensions for Dreamweaver > UltraDev. It's a great HTML/JSP editor, has a 78% marketshare (Dreamweaver > does) and is easily extendible. > > I've been to Macromedia Dreamweaver seminars before, and they make creating > "webforms" in jsps/asps look VERY easy. > > Matt > > --- James Holmes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Craig-- > > > > I've been working on a "Struts Console" which is a > > GUI-based front-end for Struts. Right now the > > functionality is limited to editing the > > struts-config.xml, but I have aspirations of much > > more. > > > > For instance I plan to have: > > > > + ability to build new form beans from JSPs (utilize > > CodeMaker or the like) > > > > + ability to manage Application Resources files > > > > + etc, etc > > > > Certainly this could evolve into a full featured > > application that would make developing Struts > > applications very easy. > > > > -james > > > > --- Craig Tataryn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi all, I just wanted to give an observation and > > > perhaps propose another "ToDo". I recently attended > > > a ".NET roadshow" seminar in Minneapolis (btw: not > > > worth the money, just buy a book and read it, all > > > the instructors did was read the slides to us). > > > > > > Anyway, the thing I got the most out of was when > > > they were displaying the features of Visual Studio > > > 7.0. Specifically when creating "Web Forms". You > > > basically create a form like you normally would for > > > a windows application, except that the controls you > > > select from are html controls. You then go about > > > coding your events like you would a normal form. > > > > > > The IDE would then compile your application and > > > create an ASPX page that displayed your form and a > > > class file that would be used to handle events on > > > the form (on the server side). So the compilier > > > actually generates javascript code which will make > > > calls out to the server when things like the > > > "lostFocus" even happens on a text box, or the > > > "Click" event happened on a button. > > > > > > Now people were really impressed with the fact that > > > you could just code this program like you would a > > > normal "VB" form, putting statements in event > > > hanlders like "Text1.text = Text2.text" and have the > > > view (the ASPX rendered HTML) display the changes. > > > Now struts already does this type of binding for us > > > (i.e myForm.text1 = myForm.text2), all we are > > > missing is the nice GUI that allows us to "forget" > > > we are writing a web application. > > > > > > I know JBuilder has extenisbility objects to allow > > > you to hook into the IDE, does anyone here have > > > exprience coding the JBuilder object model? > > > > > > I think this would make a good TODO because it > > > allows "average" users the ability to create struts > > > web apps without having to know too much about > > > servlets, thus bringing struts to a wider audience. > > > > > > Let me know what you think. > > > > > >
Re: .NET and Struts...
From a distributing computing standpoint, I would hate to have to host a web application that generated server events on things like a "lostFocus" event on the web page. This sounds like a recipe for network congestion and an overwhelmed server. It is a bad idea to make it easy for developers do this sort of thing. Such features make it easy for a developer to not only shoot themselves in the foot, but blow their whole leg off. -- Erik. I think this is the way things are going though! We've gone from worrying about saving a byte in an RPC call to SOAP! I mean, yes, it would be stupid to have server requests for very granular calls (server handling onKeyPressed() events) that's a fundemental law of remoting, but at the same time this type of auto-binding would be nice for some server side processing. I believe in VS.NET you could choose if processing should be handled for certain things on the client (i.e. client-side validation) or the server. Craig. - Original Message - From: Erik Worth To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 12:57 PM Subject: RE: .NET and Struts... Hi Gang, I realize this is tangential to Craig's original request, but I just had to comment... >The IDE would then compile your application and create an ASPX page that displayed >your form and a class file that would be used to handle events on the form (on the >server side). So the compiler actually generates JavaScript code which will make calls >out to the server when things like the "lostFocus" even happens on a text box, or the >"Click" event happened on a button.
Re: .NET and Struts...
I would actually recommend writing more struts-extensions for Dreamweaver UltraDev. It's a great HTML/JSP editor, has a 78% marketshare (Dreamweaver does) and is easily extendible. I've been to Macromedia Dreamweaver seminars before, and they make creating "webforms" in jsps/asps look VERY easy. Matt --- James Holmes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Craig-- > > I've been working on a "Struts Console" which is a > GUI-based front-end for Struts. Right now the > functionality is limited to editing the > struts-config.xml, but I have aspirations of much > more. > > For instance I plan to have: > > + ability to build new form beans from JSPs (utilize > CodeMaker or the like) > > + ability to manage Application Resources files > > + etc, etc > > Certainly this could evolve into a full featured > application that would make developing Struts > applications very easy. > > -james > > --- Craig Tataryn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi all, I just wanted to give an observation and > > perhaps propose another "ToDo". I recently attended > > a ".NET roadshow" seminar in Minneapolis (btw: not > > worth the money, just buy a book and read it, all > > the instructors did was read the slides to us). > > > > Anyway, the thing I got the most out of was when > > they were displaying the features of Visual Studio > > 7.0. Specifically when creating "Web Forms". You > > basically create a form like you normally would for > > a windows application, except that the controls you > > select from are html controls. You then go about > > coding your events like you would a normal form. > > > > The IDE would then compile your application and > > create an ASPX page that displayed your form and a > > class file that would be used to handle events on > > the form (on the server side). So the compilier > > actually generates javascript code which will make > > calls out to the server when things like the > > "lostFocus" even happens on a text box, or the > > "Click" event happened on a button. > > > > Now people were really impressed with the fact that > > you could just code this program like you would a > > normal "VB" form, putting statements in event > > hanlders like "Text1.text = Text2.text" and have the > > view (the ASPX rendered HTML) display the changes. > > Now struts already does this type of binding for us > > (i.e myForm.text1 = myForm.text2), all we are > > missing is the nice GUI that allows us to "forget" > > we are writing a web application. > > > > I know JBuilder has extenisbility objects to allow > > you to hook into the IDE, does anyone here have > > exprience coding the JBuilder object model? > > > > I think this would make a good TODO because it > > allows "average" users the ability to create struts > > web apps without having to know too much about > > servlets, thus bringing struts to a wider audience. > > > > Let me know what you think. > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
RE: .NET and Struts...
Hi Gang, I realize this is tangential to Craig's original request, but I just had to comment... >The IDE would then compile your application and create an ASPX page that displayed >your form and a class file that would be used to handle events on the form (on the >server side). So the compiler actually generates JavaScript code which will make calls >out to the server when things like the "lostFocus" even happens on a text box, or the >"Click" event happened on a button. From a distributing computing standpoint, I would hate to have to host a web application that generated server events on things like a "lostFocus" event on the web page. This sounds like a recipe for network congestion and an overwhelmed server. It is a bad idea to make it easy for developers do this sort of thing. Such features make it easy for a developer to not only shoot themselves in the foot, but blow their whole leg off. -- Erik.
Re: .NET and Struts...
Craig-- I've been working on a "Struts Console" which is a GUI-based front-end for Struts. Right now the functionality is limited to editing the struts-config.xml, but I have aspirations of much more. For instance I plan to have: + ability to build new form beans from JSPs (utilize CodeMaker or the like) + ability to manage Application Resources files + etc, etc Certainly this could evolve into a full featured application that would make developing Struts applications very easy. -james --- Craig Tataryn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all, I just wanted to give an observation and > perhaps propose another "ToDo". I recently attended > a ".NET roadshow" seminar in Minneapolis (btw: not > worth the money, just buy a book and read it, all > the instructors did was read the slides to us). > > Anyway, the thing I got the most out of was when > they were displaying the features of Visual Studio > 7.0. Specifically when creating "Web Forms". You > basically create a form like you normally would for > a windows application, except that the controls you > select from are html controls. You then go about > coding your events like you would a normal form. > > The IDE would then compile your application and > create an ASPX page that displayed your form and a > class file that would be used to handle events on > the form (on the server side). So the compilier > actually generates javascript code which will make > calls out to the server when things like the > "lostFocus" even happens on a text box, or the > "Click" event happened on a button. > > Now people were really impressed with the fact that > you could just code this program like you would a > normal "VB" form, putting statements in event > hanlders like "Text1.text = Text2.text" and have the > view (the ASPX rendered HTML) display the changes. > Now struts already does this type of binding for us > (i.e myForm.text1 = myForm.text2), all we are > missing is the nice GUI that allows us to "forget" > we are writing a web application. > > I know JBuilder has extenisbility objects to allow > you to hook into the IDE, does anyone here have > exprience coding the JBuilder object model? > > I think this would make a good TODO because it > allows "average" users the ability to create struts > web apps without having to know too much about > servlets, thus bringing struts to a wider audience. > > Let me know what you think. > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
.NET and Struts...
Hi all, I just wanted to give an observation and perhaps propose another "ToDo". I recently attended a ".NET roadshow" seminar in Minneapolis (btw: not worth the money, just buy a book and read it, all the instructors did was read the slides to us). Anyway, the thing I got the most out of was when they were displaying the features of Visual Studio 7.0. Specifically when creating "Web Forms". You basically create a form like you normally would for a windows application, except that the controls you select from are html controls. You then go about coding your events like you would a normal form. The IDE would then compile your application and create an ASPX page that displayed your form and a class file that would be used to handle events on the form (on the server side). So the compilier actually generates javascript code which will make calls out to the server when things like the "lostFocus" even happens on a text box, or the "Click" event happened on a button. Now people were really impressed with the fact that you could just code this program like you would a normal "VB" form, putting statements in event hanlders like "Text1.text = Text2.text" and have the view (the ASPX rendered HTML) display the changes. Now struts already does this type of binding for us (i.e myForm.text1 = myForm.text2), all we are missing is the nice GUI that allows us to "forget" we are writing a web application. I know JBuilder has extenisbility objects to allow you to hook into the IDE, does anyone here have exprience coding the JBuilder object model? I think this would make a good TODO because it allows "average" users the ability to create struts web apps without having to know too much about servlets, thus bringing struts to a wider audience. Let me know what you think.
