Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics - Decoding 16 channels in DAW
I have done this--smbisonic decoded to 2 hexagons one above the other. I have also add a stereo mix into the decode. It is known as B+ ThomasChen In a message dated 7/3/2013 7:34:00 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, m...@moritzfehr.de writes: hi everyone, thank you very much for your replies -- what i would like to achieve is playing a mix of a b-format recording combined with several mono- and stereofiles (have been doing this a lot, but only with a maximum of 8 channels). my mixing platform is reaper on osx. i am going to record a space with a soundfield mic and i would like to then make a "simulation" of it by setting up an array of 16 speakers. one speaker circle is on ear level, the other one above. i would like to use the second circle above to add height information to the ambisonic soundfield. as i can see now, adding a second instance of vvmic or harpex might not be suitable as it would generate two separate soundfields. (not sure if i am right here...) the b2x plugins seem to have a maximum of 12 outputs. ...i will look at ambdec but it does seem to need a lot of routing using jack. would the decopro vst plugin (http://www.gerzonic.net/) be a good choice for this purpose? thank you ! moritz Am 03.07.2013 um 15:38 schrieb Matthias Kronlachner: > hi! > > you may just add an additional 8 channel track for a second instance of vvmicvst in reaper. > send the 4 channel ambisonics signal to this newly created instance hosting vvmicvst, and route the outputs as you like. > > but if this approach gives you good decoding is another issue.. > > matthias > > On 7/3/13 1:37 PM, Moritz Fehr wrote: >> Dear Members of Sursound, >> >> i am using the VVMicVst Plugin in Reaper for mixing and decoding my B-Format recordings. The plugin is limited to an output of 8 channels. For a new sound installation, I would like to decode to 16 channels (two circles of 8 speakers stacked). I know that I could use ICST for Max, but if possible in any way, I would to keep on working in a DAW. Are there any other plugins or tools available for this purpose (OSX) ? >> >> Any help would be greatly appreciated! >> >> Best, >> Moritz >> >> >> >> >> -- next part -- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130703/2415a0a0/attachment.html> >> ___ >> Sursound mailing list >> Sursound@music.vt.edu >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > * Moritz Fehr mobil: 01749231733 moritzf...@web.de www.moritzfehr.de -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130703/66f54ac4/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130703/3854bdfa/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Domestic Concert Hall
Ralph I have created a suite of rooms in impulse response of varying size, shape and wall material. I have done this in Voxengo Impulse Modeler. I have created 5 frontal positions with early reflections and time values. There is a late reflections/reverberation stereo inpulses. I have learned to mix impulses from the same room with different mic placement and differing diffusion. The direct and early reflections give the location and change the signal from mono to stereo. The late room give ambience. This fall I am hoping to create a suite of B format rooms with the late reflections and some time consideration. This would be added to direct and early reflections which can be panned to pairs of speakers or other means of localization. While not WFS, I think that it will be very satisfactory. ThomasChen In a message dated 7/7/2012 7:16:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rglas...@yahoo.com writes: Using a new HP Pavillion HPE h8-1280t desktop Windows 7 PC with a solid state disk drive and RME ADAT sound cards I have been able to generate ambience signals for 26 surround speakers in essentially real time with only about 12 milliseconds of latency. The computer uses AudioMulch as the DAW with 13 iterations of the Waves IL-R VST plugin as the convolver. The library of concert halls and other hall impulse responses from Waves who include some originally from Angelo Farina is now so large that it occupies two DVDs. When running at 44.1 with a 2.0 input the computer load is only 39% so I may have overdone it.One can easily have up to 32 speakers using all 4 ADAT outputs. But basically what I have for the first time is a truly diffuse soundfield with a low IACC. That is, this is a sound field with at least some of the most important properties of a real concert hall. When you turn on the 26 speakers you get an enhanced sense of being there plus clarity, depth and realism in general. Since the Waves IRs do not really allow for partitioning the impulse responses to particular speakers, this system is not ideal, but I believe it can be shown that once a field is diffuse, but still with large interaural level and interaural time differences, most humans will accept the field as reasonably realistic even if it represents a concert hall that does not exist. One combines a selection of IRs from the same or similar halls to maintain the necessary diversity and prevent aliasing or monophonic impairments. Of course, now that I have done this it is clear that there are perhaps no more than three individuals in the world that would have the space, the skill, the money, and the love of classical music, to want to or be able to implement this. It is certainly not for solo electric guitar oriented stereophiles. However, I think serious music schools installing such a reproduction system would be able to evaluate their performances more realistically and conductors would be able to fine tune their technique etc. Getting the hall ambience this way certainly beats trying to record the hall during a performance and then delivering it via normal media along with the direct sound. Ralph Glasgal http://www.ambiophonics.org/ glas...@ambiophonic.org Note I have to use the Yahoo address because this list sofware does not like .org addresses. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20120707/45dada93/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20120709/393d232c/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Audium - sound sculpture exhibit
I have been to the Audium several years ago. It is a fascinating audio experience. It is not a coherent B format replay but rather a creative experience. I would recommend that you listen to this. ThomasChen In a message dated 4/19/2012 4:41:22 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, er...@theaudioarchive.com writes: Some lighter reading - I just learned about this. The perfect field trip for this group's membership: http://www.audium.org/ "Audium is the only theatre of its kind in the world, pioneering the exploration of space in music. The theatre's 176 speakers bathe listeners in sounds that move past, over, and under them. "Sound sculptures" are performed in darkness in the 49-seat theatre." Audium has been around for awhile: http://www.audium.org/omhpp.cgi?src=archive/archive_history.hpp with 4 channels (8 speakers in 1960) and growing from there. Okay, the speakers can *move* - cheating! Anyone from this list been to Audium? I've not been yet, but am curious. My first post ever to this group after lurking for 7+ years. Eric Jacobs The Audio Archive, Inc. Disc and Tape Audio Transfer Services and Preservation Consulting http://www.theaudioarchive.com tel: 408.221.2128 mailto:er...@theaudioarchive.com ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20120419/06871e7c/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Loudspeakers configuration.
I have tried a 10 decode with 5.1 type and hight directly above, also 12 decode with hexagonal arrangement with one above the other and 16 decode with octagonal arrangement again one above the other. I prefer the 16 and find that the integration of the speakers is more complete. ThomasChen -Original Message- From: david monacchi To: Surround Sound discussion group Cc: Eugenio Giordani Sent: Sat, Jun 25, 2011 6:52 am Subject: [Sursound] Loudspeakers configuration. Dear all,finally here at LEMS, we're now starting to move walls and treat acoustically the room for a good sounding multichannel studio with Ambisonics capabilities.. After all the thoughts raised, we decided to go for building a semi-anechoic space with wodden floor on elastic material, with removable thick carpets. Few other concerns are now on the list between me and my colleague, regarding the position of the speakers and their characteristics. All the ambisonic tests I've done over the last few years where never comparative tests between different configurations of speakers. So any experience that any of you may report would be important, cause we build a studio not so many times in life ;-))As I wrote few months ago, the reason we imagined a 4+4+4+1 system (vertexes of an exahedron plus center of 5 faces) was mainly because such an array would give the possibility of enlarging the radius as much as possible, rotating the cube and placing the elev.0° speakers in the angles, having actually the room almost inscribed onto the ideal sphere (see the 4+4+4+1 jpeg here). Widening the radius, the available listening area would be enlarged and that's essential for a small room, where we would like to do not only production but also listening sessions with few peoples..Another small advantage is that in this position all the speakers would have a corner behind (2 walls) and so the sound pressure radieted at the low-end would be almost identical..But, even if our studio will immediately concentrate on first order field recordings, we're trying to build a facility that is ready for HOA uses, of course..Being aware that the ideal isotropic array would have a 12-speaker (vertexes of an icosahedron) or 20-speaker (vertexes of a dodec) setup, in this perfectly equallly spaced arrays although, there's not an elevation 0 ring So some considerations:1) since the azimuthal information is, as we know, much more important;2) a ring of more than 4 speakers in the elev 0° plane could also be used for other 4-8 channels stardard formats;3) since from the same ring it would be desiderable to have a 2.0 or 5.0 already placed or easily derived by slightly moving the speakers;4) since a higher order is prefearable;we're considering to switch to a 4+6+4+1 (as Fons was suggesting) - but in this case the speakers are really un-equally spaced among each other's ring - or eventually a 4+8+4+1 setup - more equal distances and ready for a standard planar 8-ch, but in this last case the radius would actually be the room radius resulting in a smaller listening space..The 3+6+3 (icosahedron suggested by Jörn and Joseph) with the staggered 6 adjusted to a ring would be a great solution also for having a 2.0 ready, but in that case the 3 floor speakers would be quite near the mix board loosing floor space, and we would need to inscribe the system into the room resulting in a very small listening area, + the total 12 speakers would confine the system to 2nd order also..As always, a trade off is needed (also considering costs...), but few questions that may help us to decide:1) based on your listening experience, would you prefer to enlarge the radius and have a wider listening area or to have a smaller area more isotropic and with more speakers for a full 3rd order?2) since we can slightly augment the number of speakers: - which could be a good trade off, also considering that 16 loudspeakers would numerically open a full 3rd order capability?- Is the 4+4+4+1 really uncapable of reproducing efficiently 3rd order? - Is the 4+6+4+1 (16 speakers minus the bottom one) almost able to do a 3rd order?- Would it be practical and efficient to decode on these arrays through mixed orders 3rd on azimuth and 2nd on elevation?3) do you think that the compensations to be done in the decoder (uneven dimensions of our room 5.05L 4.35W 2.95H) would affect much the 3D reconstruction..In the 4+4+4+1 the compensation would actually be much less for the height since we're not using the bottom speaker and we'll compensate the zenit speaker, resulting in a truncated sphere which is larger than the room..4) does anybody have a comparative experience with coaxial speakers vs 2way ones in small ambisonics arrays?. Of course a set of meyer HM-1 would be everybody's dream but they're not even anymore in stock.. We're also trying to avoid Genelec and to go toward
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic Speakers what type to buy for 8 speaker setup
I believe that angle between speakers are important. We will fuse angles of 60 degrees or less. I have found that 45 degrees fuse well and most people are unable to locate speakers. I also found that with height helps fuse the image. I use B+ which adds a stereo front earlier in time plus B format. The early time of arrival from the stereo front helps in both richness and localization. ThomasChen -Original Message- From: Anthony Palomba To: Surround Sound discussion group Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 12:41 pm Subject: Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic Speakers what type to buy for 8 speaker setup I am very interested in this as well. I have been thinking abouttaking the 3d audio plunge and would like to figure outwhat kind of setup I would need.I would also be interested in knowing what you guys areusing to do the encoding of the audio streams.AnthonyOn Thu, May 5, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Pedro Lopes wrote:> Hi everyone,>> Impressive setup you have there.> I'm also building an 8 speaker ambisonic setup, although budget limitations> will force me to buy something like YamahaHs50, KRK rokit, or Mackies...> something in the 150€ price range per speaker.>> ThomasChen do you use two octagons one above the other?>> I'm researching about my speaker positioning, and considering two quads> (rectangles), one vertical and one horizontal. The goal is to provide a> small space (3 by 3 meters) with 3D sound with ambisonics. Whats the> general> though on 8 speaker positioning?>> I attached an idea of the placing, for illustration purposes.>> best regards,> Pedro>> On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 6:38 PM, wrote:>> > Darren> >> > I am using a dual octagon setup with ambisonic plus stereo playback. I> > have custom decoder implemented in Scope--Soniccore. I am using Genelec> > speakers with larger for the front and small for the rear. The addition> of> > powered speakers is that the addition gives much greater sound pressure.> > The> > advantage of distributed sound sources is that the sound level is more> > tolerable than from two. They are in a 1000 sq. ft. room> >> > ThomasChen> >> >> > In a message dated 5/5/2011 6:07:32 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,> > i...@sacredresonance.com.au writes:> >> > Hi Darren here,> >> > I am doing a surround sound / octagon (8 speakers) setup using ambisonic> > software to create immersive sound running out of "M-aduio firewire 410"> >> > I am wanting to do 30-80 people in a room I want to do testing in house> > and use for live setup as well -> >> > what you think is the cheapest option being 8 speakers.> >> > 1. What speakers should: (to buy)> >> > a) Monitors (near field) powered - would these work ? being near field.> >> > b) or just powered speakers.> >> > Please any ideas of what to buy with this setup> >> > thanks> > Darren> >> > -- next part --> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> > URL:> > <> >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20110505/48da4d92/attachment.html> > >> > ___> > Sursound mailing list> > Sursound@music.vt.edu> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> >> > -- next part --> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> > URL: <> >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20110505/6e4a7dcf/attachment.html> > >> > ___> > Sursound mailing list> > Sursound@music.vt.edu> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> >>>>> --> Pedro Lopes (MSc)> contact: pedro.lo...@ist.utl.pt> website: http://web.ist.utl.pt/Pedro.Lopes /> http://pedrolopesresearch.wordpress.com/ |> http://twitter.com/plopesresearch> -- next part --> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: <> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20110505/99221fdb/attachment.html> >> -- next part --> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: doublequadSetup.png> Type: image/png> Size: 42473 bytes> Desc: not available> URL: <> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20110505/99221fdb/attachment.png> >> ___> Sursound mailing list> Sursound@music.vt.edu> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound>-- next part --An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20110505/ 75a6828b/attachment.html>___S ursound mailing listsurso...@music.vt.eduhttps://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/surso und ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic Speakers what type to buy for 8 speaker setup
I use two octagons with one above the other. The decoding is much simpler for Z with the angles the same. My decoder is based on the angle from zero in front. ThomasChen -Original Message- From: Pedro Lopes To: Surround Sound discussion group Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 10:46 am Subject: Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic Speakers what type to buy for 8 speaker setup Hi everyone,Impressive setup you have there.I'm also building an 8 speaker ambisonic setup, although budget limitationswill force me to buy something like YamahaHs50, KRK rokit, or Mackies...something in the 150€ price range per speaker.ThomasChen do you use two octagons one above the other?I'm researching about my speaker positioning, and considering two quads(rectangles), one vertical and one horizontal. The goal is to provide asmall space (3 by 3 meters) with 3D sound with ambisonics. Whats the generalthough on 8 speaker positioning?I attached an idea of the placing, for illustration purposes.best regards,PedroOn Thu, May 5, 2011 at 6:38 PM, wrote:> Darren>> I am using a dual octagon setup with ambisonic plus stereo playback. I> have custom decoder implemented in Scope--Soniccore. I am using Genelec> speakers with larger for the front and small for the rear. The addition of> powered speakers is that the addition gives much greater sound pressure.> The> advantage of distributed sound sources is that the sound level is more> tolerable than from two. They are in a 1000 sq. ft. room>> ThomasChen>>> In a message dated 5/5/2011 6:07:32 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,> i...@sacredresonance.com.au writes:>> Hi Darren here,>> I am doing a surround sound / octagon (8 speakers) setup using ambisonic> software to create immersive sound running out of "M-aduio firewire 410">> I am wanting to do 30-80 people in a room I want to do testing in house> and use for live setup as well ->> what you think is the cheapest option being 8 speakers.>> 1. What speakers should: (to buy)>> a) Monitors (near field) powered - would these work ? being near field.>> b) or just powered speakers.>> Please any ideas of what to buy with this setup>> thanks> Darren>> -- next part --> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL:> <> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20110505/48da4d92/attachment.html> >> ___> Sursound mailing list> Sursound@music.vt.edu> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound>> -- next part --> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: <> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20110505/6e4a7dcf/attachment.html> >> ___> Sursound mailing list> Sursound@music.vt.edu> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound>-- Pedro Lopes (MSc)contact: pedro.lo...@ist.utl.ptwebsite: http://web.ist.utl.pt/Pedro.Lopes /http://pedrolopesresearch.wordpress.com/ | http://twitter.com/plopesresearch-- next part --An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20110505/ 99221fdb/attachment.html>-- next part --A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: doublequadSetup.pngType: image/pngSize: 42473 bytesDesc: not availableURL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20110505/ 99221fdb/attachment.png>___Su rsound mailing listsurso...@music.vt.eduhttps://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/surso und ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic Speakers what type to buy for 8 speaker setup
Darren I am using a dual octagon setup with ambisonic plus stereo playback. I have custom decoder implemented in Scope--Soniccore. I am using Genelec speakers with larger for the front and small for the rear. The addition of powered speakers is that the addition gives much greater sound pressure. The advantage of distributed sound sources is that the sound level is more tolerable than from two. They are in a 1000 sq. ft. room ThomasChen In a message dated 5/5/2011 6:07:32 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, i...@sacredresonance.com.au writes: Hi Darren here, I am doing a surround sound / octagon (8 speakers) setup using ambisonic software to create immersive sound running out of "M-aduio firewire 410" I am wanting to do 30-80 people in a room I want to do testing in house and use for live setup as well - what you think is the cheapest option being 8 speakers. 1. What speakers should: (to buy) a) Monitors (near field) powered - would these work ? being near field. b) or just powered speakers. Please any ideas of what to buy with this setup thanks Darren -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20110505/48da4d92/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20110505/6e4a7dcf/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Reflections from the wooden floor on an ambisonic room
My listening room for amisonics is quite live but diffuse. I decode as two rings of 8 like a cylinder. I have found localization good. ThomasChen In a message dated 3/25/2011 6:07:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rica...@justnet.com.au writes: When I was the R&D teaboy at Wharfedale in the late 70's, I tried stereo in our anechoic chamber; expecting great things w/o pesky room reflections. The results were terrible; poor stereo sound as well as formal localisation which was the reason for the experiment. Both much poorer than in a normal listening room. Peter Fryer told me that BBC Research had tried the same thing with the same results. They found putting a plywood floor down improved the sound and localisation.[1] MAG knew of this experiment and always advocated speakers close to room boundaries rather than well away as the pseudo prophets would have it. His reasoning was that if early reflections came from the same general direction, they would not confuse. I should also point out that simulating localisation w/o "some" reflections is likely to be inaccurate.[3] There are several reports of poor Ambi demos in Anechoics; including the false prophet Floyd who repeats this ad nauseum. However, he may not have been using a proper Ambisonic Decoder.[2] I'm not convinced of the need for "semi(?) anechoic" listening rooms, ambisonic or otherwise ... except for Joern's "... very convincing renderings of semi-anechoic or free-field conditions. " However, I'd urge that any purpose built listening room or studio have wonky walls, floor & ceiling. Perfectly parallel surfaces have terrible flutter echoes and you end up applying so much treatment to deal with these that your room becomes too dead. Prof Peter Lord, Salford recommended at least 2 degrees wonkiness. Julian Wright, Celestion finally managed to simulate and confirm this in the late 90's when Patrick Macy, PAFEC developed the 1st successful acoustic boundary element (we were Beta testers). Wonky walls give you much more flexibility to choose your room reverb profile > [Richard, I know what you are thinkingyet again, I couldn't help but mention the Hankel functions...sorry :-) ] Duu...uh! Professor, does " ... substituting the spherical Bessel/Hankel (j_n / h_n) functions with traditional Bessel/Hankel functions (J_n / H_n) ... " for NFC with "line arrays" give a simple Minimum Phase 3dB/8ve filter? My calculator has no big B or H button. [1] I've been trying to find the BBC Research report w/o success. If anyone knows it, please post. It might be mentioned in "Stereophonic image sharpness" - Harwood, WW vol74 1968 p207-11 The Kingswood Warren anechoic was rather bigger than ours. [2] "Is my decoder Ambisonic?" - Heller et al, preprint 7753, AES San Francisco 08. This is BLaH3 and includes "Designing Classic Ambi Decoders for Dummies". [3] "Loudspeaker and the Stereo Image" - Millward, HFN 29, nov84 ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20110326/867a0459/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] B format recording
I routinely use ProTools to mix B+ . All the decode is done in a separate computer that takes l/r and B format and will decode to 10, 12 or 16 positions. If you do not use Z is will do horizontal only ambisonics. ThomasChen -Original Message- From: Dave Hunt To: sursound@music.vt.edu Sent: Fri, Feb 25, 2011 1:57 am Subject: [Sursound] B format recording Hi From: Chris Cody Subject: [Sursound] B format recording Does anybody know weather it is possible to record and mix B format > in Pro Tools 9? I have been looking around for a plugin, with not much > luck. It appears SoundField have one, but I can;t find out if it is > compatible with PT9 (only PT8HD or VST) I have just started teching at a venue with > a pro tools rig, and while I despise it, I think I'm stuck with it for > the time being. ProTools 9, like ProTools LE, has a fairly limiting stereo architecture for ambisonic work. I have made some RTAS plug-ins that can work around it, using Max 4, so they're Pluggo plug-ins. They use a hidden 4-channel bus, so are not entirely straight-forward to use. The panners for example (mono and stereo in) have a 4-channel B-format output that bypasses the channel fader. You then have to use two stereo aux input channels to pick up this B-format and pass it to the outputs, or use a decoder that is made up of stereo aux channels with a series of plug-ins to decode to pairs of speakers. Luckily, as PT 9 can use any interface, including Soundflower on the same computer, you can forget the decoder plug-ins, just output B-format and use an external software decoder. Mine is now built in Max 5, and can do up to 16 loudspeakers. B-format signals have to be split into four mono files by ProTools (I think it will import these, though its easy to do in Audacity). If using an external decoder, these can be routed to the B-format output. You can drag two mono files onto a stereo track if it makes things easier. Just ensure that all files are all positioned to start at exactly the same time before doing any editing (click on one, then ctrl click on the one you want to align to it). You shouldn't have this problem as all tracks, including the mono/stereo ones comprising B-format will all be recorded together and start at the same time. Then group all tracks together in the Edit window. Otherwise I managed to make a plug in of two halves to manipulate B-format, along the lines of the panners. One big problem is that Max 4 never got to dealing with multiple cores, so you are restricted to one RTAS processor, otherwise it starts glitching and crackling as the load on that processor gets heavy. While I don't have the gear to do surround at the moment, I would like to have the B format stuff sussed in stereo first so that I > can upgrade later in the year. You can just use a two speaker decoder. Basically what I need is: A way to mix any additional spot mics or solo mics into the B format universe A way to mix the B format from the soundfield and spot mics into > mono/stereo (upgradeable to surround) All using pro tools 9. :( It can be done, but something else like Reaper would probably be easier. Even though my plug-ins work until the processor load gets high, I find other programs better for ambisonics. Even Logic which is pretty crippled except for really basic mixing of B-format and mono and stereo into B-format If Pro Tools isn't an option, what do you recommend that will work > with a digi 002? (until I can upgrade and remove digidesign rubbish from > my life all together) Though I too have reservations about the quality of the audio from the Digi 002, I have used ProTools for many years, and it is still my DAW of choice. All the others have come round to trying to emulate it, with varying degees of success. It was made to do audio, whereas most of the others grew from Midi workstations. It is powerful with good file handling, a minimum of screen clutter, and is fairly easy to learn and to use. However it is not a particularly good host for ambisonic work. The full toolkit might make it better, but it costs an arm and a leg. Ciao, Dave Hunt ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Largest ever indoor multichannel sound art installation in the world at Eden project, Cornwall, UK
Augustine I have used a Mac Book with the MOTU Traveler. It gives you 4 line inputs and 4 Mic inputs. I use a Mark V Soundfield and connedt to the line inputs. You can then use the other 4 inputs to record spot accents to placed later in the soundfield. One of the techniques I routinely use is that the spot mics are 10 to 30 msec or feet earlier in time than the Soundfield Mic. This uses early time of arrival to help localize your sound. A Soundfield 350 is more compact and will also give lline outputs. This sounds like an interesting project! ThomasChen B+ -Original Message- From: Augustine Leudar To: sursound@music.vt.edu Sent: Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:35 am Subject: [Sursound] Largest ever indoor multichannel sound art installation in the world at Eden project, Cornwall, UK Hello ,I am writing to let you know about the largest multichannel sound artinstallation in the world at the Eden project. For those unfamiliar with theEden Project it is the largest indoor tropical conservatory in the worldcovering several acres and presently has lots of speakers hidden in thebushes ! Hopefully this event is something that would interest you as well:http://www.edenproject.com/come-and-visit/whats-on/heart-of-darkness .phpWe actually did this before in March - it is quite different to ChrisWatsons in that includes many imaginary sounds as well as authenticrainforest sounds as well as several actors and native people from therainforest who talk to the public as they walk around. The event is held inthe evening and so far has got a fantastic response from the public, it ison every Friday and Saturday in November. As well as being set upambisonically it also has a lady singing a lament floating around the biomein in a hot air balloon .hopefully somebody from this list will be able to get down and check it out,Although the installation is laid out with a very unusual speakerconfiguration which included height information as well as surround sound Ihave discovered several things during my application of large soundinstallations. Discrete sound sources (ie one speaker dedicated to onesound) work much better than trying to put the sound in a surround soundimage using a surround sound panner in Nuendo or whatever). Leaves act asfantastic dispersers of souind and the sound of say, insects, sound muchmore realistic if the speaker is hidden in the bushes.Although the installation is ambisonically laid out many of the recordingswere only taken with surround sound microphones - I am shortly to return tothe amazon with new equipment and would welcome any advice on a goodmultichannel recorder and low noise mics to take with me (I reckon I need atleast six inputs for this - sound devices look good but are so expensive -what are peoples on the Tascam 680 ?) any suggestions welcome. I also lookforward to discussing the best way of recording ambisonically ,best,Augustine Leudar-- next part --An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20101109/ 82df428c/attachment.html>___S ursound mailing listsurso...@music.vt.eduhttps://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/surso und ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
