[Biofuel] Silver Nanoparticles Attach to HIV-1 virus

[D. Mindock]

AFAIK, there has not been a bug found that silver cannot kill. It is notable 
that silver does not harm the beneficial flora in the gut. It seems to be 
the perfect antibiotic. IMO, everyone with a weak immune system should be 
either using it routinely or at least have some available for emergencies. I 
have periodontal disease, a sure sign of a weakened immune system.
 Peace, D. Mindock
--
http://www.physorg.com/news7264.html
Study Shows Silver Nanoparticles Attach to HIV-1 virus

In the first-ever study of metal nanoparticles' interaction with HIV-1, 
silver nanoparticles of sizes 1-10nm attached to HIV-1 and prevented the 
virus from bonding to host cells. The study, published in the Journal of 
Nanotechnology, was a joint project between the University of Texas, Austin 
and Mexico Univeristy, Nuevo Leon.
Sponsored Links (Ads by Google)

"Our article opens an important avenue for research," said Miguel Jose 
Yacaman, from University of Texas, Department of Engineering and one of the 
study's authors.

In this study, scientists mixed silver nanoparticles with three different 
capping agents: foamy carbon, poly (PVP), and bovine serum albumin 
(BSA)."Not using a capping agent could result in the synthesis of big 
crystals instead of nanocrystals," explained Yacaman.

Transmission electron microscopy (TEM) showed the silver nanoparticles in 
the foamy carbon matrix were joined together, but an ultrasonic bath in 
deionized water released a significant number of nanoparticles. These 
nanoparticles were of size 16.19 (+-8.69)nm and had the greatest variety of 
shapes, such as icosahedral, decahedral, and elongated.

"Because of the synthesis procedure, the foamy carbon-coated naoparticles 
are more likely to have broad shape distribution," said Yacaman. Scientists 
used the electron beam to release the remainder of the nanoparticles from 
the joined bundle.

For the PVP-coated silver nanoparticles, scientists used glycerine as a 
dissolving agent. These particles were of size 6.53 (+-2.41). In the third 
preparation, scientists used serum albumin, the most common protein in blood 
plasma. The sulfur, oxygen, and nitrogen chemicals in BSA stabilized the 
nanoparticles, which were in the range of 3.12 (+-2.00) nm.

Scientists studied the absorption spectra of the different preparations to 
pinpoint their shapes. "Spherical nanoparticles absorbed in the blue region 
of the spectrum, for example," Yacaman said.

Also, the UV-Visible spectra graphs helped the group determine nanoparticle 
sizes. "The surface plasmon resonance peak wavelength increased with size," 
explained Yacaman.


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Scientists tested, in vitro, each of three silver nanoparticle-preparations 
in HIV-1 cells. Yacaman and his colleagues incubated the samples at 37 C. 
After three hours and 24 hours, respectively, 0% of the cells were living.

The results showed that a silver nanoparticle concentration greater than 25 
ug/mL worked more effectively at inhibiting HIV-1 cells. Plus, the foamy 
carbon was a slightly-better capping agent because of its free surface area. 
Size also played a role since none of the attached nanoparticles were 
greater than 10nm.

Scientists think the nanoparticles bonded through the gp120 glycoprotein 
knobs on HIV-1, using the sulfur residues on the knobs. The spacing between 
the knobs of ~22nm matched the center-to-center nanoparticle spacing.

Although this study shows silver nanoparticles may treat HIV-1, scientists 
need to research this relationship further. "We lack information regarding 
the long-term effects of metal nanoparticles," cautioned Yacaman. Scientists 
are forming a preventive cream for HIV-1, which they will test on humans.

Scientists are also studying other uses for silver nanoparticles. "We're 
testing against other viruses and the 'super bug (Methicillin resistant 
staphylococcus aureus).' Our preliminary results indicate that silver 
nanoparticles can effectively attack other micro-organisms," Yacaman said.

By Syeda Z. Hamdani; Copyright 2005 PhysOrg.com 


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[Biofuel] Hey, what's in that vaccine?

[D. Mindock]

http://www.advancedhealthplan.com/bhvaccineingredients.html

  VACCINE INGREDIENTS
  The questions: "What is in the flu shot and what is in the vaccinations 
they are giving my child?", are being raised by those that are taking 
responsibility for their health and that of their loved ones. This brings hope 
that, one day soon, parents will have the truth and be able to make more 
logical decisions in the future. ~ Vickie Barker


  VACCINE INGREDIENTS
  a representative sample

  Vaccine - Manufacturer  - Microbes - Antibiotics -Chemicals /
  Heavy Metals  - Animal ByProducts

  Acel-Immune DTP
  diphtheria - tetanus - pertussis 
  Wyeth-Ayerst  800.934.5556 
  diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and
  acellular pertussis adsorbed formaldehyde, aluminum
  hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, thimerosal, and
  polysorbate 80 (Tween-80) gelatin
  Act HIB

  Haemophilus
   influenza B 
  Connaught Laboratories  800.822.2463
   Haemophilus influenza Type B,
  polyribosylribitol phosphate ammonium sulfate,
  formalin, and sucrose

  Attenuvax
  measles 
  Merck & Co., Inc. 800-672-6372 
  measles live virus neomycin sorbitol
  hydrolized gelatin, chick embryo

  Biavax
  rubella 
  Merck & Co., Inc. 800-672-6372 
  rubella live virus neomycin sorbitol
  hydrolized gelatin, human diploid cells from aborted
  fetal tissue

  BioThrax
  anthrax adsorbed 
  BioPort Corporation 517.327.1500
  nonencapsulated strain of Bacillus anthracis
  aluminum hydroxide, benzethonium chloride, and
  formaldehyde

  DPT
  diphtheria - tetanus - pertussis 
  GlaxoSmithKline 800.366.8900
  X 5231 diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and acellular
  pertussis adsorbed formaldehyde, aluminum phosphate,
  ammonium sulfate, and thimerosal washed sheep RBCs

  Dryvax
  smallpox
  (not licensed d/t expiration) Wyeth-Ayerst 800.934.5556 
  live vaccinia virus, with "some microbial
  contaminants," according to the Working Group on
  Civilian Biodefense polymyxcin B sulfate, streptomycin
  sulfate, chlortetracycline hydrochloride, and neomycin
  sulfate phenol -a compound obtained by distillation of
  coal tar glycerin, and vesicle fluid from calf skins

  Engerix-B
  recombinant hepatitis B 
  GlaxoSmithKline 800.366.8900
  X 5231 genetic sequence of the hepatitis B virus that
  codes for the surface antigen (HbSAg), cloned into GMO
  yeast aluminum hydroxide, and thimerosal

  Fluvirin 
  Medeva Pharmaceuticals 888.MEDEVA 716.274.5300 
  influenza virus neomycin, polymyxin
  beta-propiolactone chick embryonic fluid

  FluShield 
  Wyeth-Ayerst 800.934.5556 
  trivalent influenza virus, types A&B
  gentamicin sulphate formadehyde, thimerosal, and
  polysorbate 80 (Tween-80) chick embryonic fluid
  Havrix

  hepatitis A 
  GlaxoSmithKline 800.366.8900
  X 5231 hepatitis A virus formalin, aluminum
  hydroxide, 2-phenoxyethanol, and polysorbate 20
  residual MRC5 proteins
  -human diploid cells from aborted fetal tissue

  HiB Titer
  Haemophilus influenza B
   Wyeth-Ayerst 800.934.5556 
  Haemophilus influenza B,
  polyribosylribitol phosphate, yeast ammonium
  sulfate, thimerosal, and chemically defined
  yeast-based medium

  Imovax 
  Connaught Laboratories 800.822.2463
  rabies virus adsorbed neomycin sulfate phenol red indicator
  human albumin, human diploid cells from aborted fetal tissue

  IPOL
  Connaught Laboratories 800.822.2463 
  3 types of polio viruses neomycin, streptomycin, and polymyxin B
  formaldehyde, and 2-phenoxyethenol continuous line of
  monkey kidney cells

  JE-VAX
  Japanese encephalitis 
  Aventis Pasteur USA 800.VACCINE 
  Nakayama-NIH strain of Japanese
  encephalitis virus, inactivated formaldehyde,
  polysorbate 80 (Tween-80), and thimerosal mouse serum
  proteins, and gelatin

  LYMErix
  lyme 
  GlaxoSmithKline 888-825-5249 
  recombinant protein (OspA) from the outer
  surface of the spirochete Borrelia burgdorferi
  kanamycin aluminum hydroxide, 2-phenoxyethenol,
  phosphate buffered saline

  MMR
  measles - mumps - rubella 
  Merck & Co., Inc.  800.672.6372
  measles, mumps, rubella live virus
  neomycin sorbitol hydrolized gelatin, chick embryonic
  fluid, andn human diploid cells from aborted fetal tissue

  M-R-Vax
  measles - rubella 
  Merck & Co., Inc. 800.672.6372
  measles, rubella live virus neomycin
  sorbitol hydrolized gelatin, chick embryonic fluid,
  and human diploid cells from aborted fetal tissue

  Menomune
  meningococcal 
  Connaught Laboratories 800.822.2463
  freeze-dried polysaccharide antigens from Neisseria
  meni

[Biofuel] Anaesthetic linked to Alzheimer's

[D. Mindock]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6334263.stm

Anaesthetic linked to Alzheimer's 
   
  Anaesthetists say special care is taken when dealing with elderly 
patients 
A commonly used anaesthetic could cause changes in the brain linked to 
Alzheimer's, a US study suggests. 
The anaesthetic isoflurane is linked to cell death. 

The researchers said the Journal of Neuroscience findings from cell tests 
suggested caution was needed regarding the anaesthetic's use for the elderly. 

Alzheimer's experts said work was needed to check if similar effects occurred 
in patients, and anaesthetists urged caution over the study. 

  We take this report very seriously, but we would advise caution in 
extrapolating these findings to humans 

  Dr Keith Myerson, Royal College of Anaesthetists 

Alzheimer's disease is a progressive, degenerative and irreversible brain 
disorder. 

It is characterised by the formation of plaques made of amyloid beta protein, 
which kills brain cells. 

More than 41,000 people in the UK are currently affected by the condition. 

Cell activity 

Some studies have suggested that general anaesthesia might increase the risk of 
developing Alzheimer's disease. 

It also is known that a small number of surgical patients experience a form of 
dementia after their operation. 

But there has been no evidence of a direct link between anaesthesia and the 
risk of dementia. 

The team from the Massachusetts General Hospital carried out tests on brain 
cells. 

They found isoflurane boosts the activity of an enzyme called capase, which 
plays a major part in causing cells to die - a process called apoptosis - and 
in the development of amyloid protein. 

Dr Zhongcong Xie, of the Massachusetts General Institute for Neurodegenerative 
Disease who led the research, said: "Our studies have shown that isoflurane may 
induce a vicious cycle of apoptosis, amyloid-beta generation, and further 
rounds of apoptosis. 

"If future studies support these findings, they suggest that caution be used in 
choosing this anaesthetic for elderly patients, who already are at increased 
risk for Alzheimer's and for postoperative cognitive dysfunction." 

The team plan to carry out further research to assess if the same effects would 
be seen in patients. 

Dr Susanne Sorensen, head of research at the UK's Alzheimer's Society, said: 
"Around 10% of people who are given anaesthetic for major surgery experience 
'post-operative cognitive decline.' 

"This involves lasting problems with their memory and attention, but it is not 
yet clear whether this decline may increase a person's risk of Alzheimer's 
disease." 

She said the study had raised interesting questions, and added: "It is crucial 
that more work is now done to establish whether this same reaction can occur in 
the human brain. " 

Dr Keith Myerson, a spokesman for the Royal College of Anaesthetists: "We take 
this report very seriously, but we would advise caution in extrapolating these 
findings to humans." 

He added: "We know it's important to maintain blood flow to the brain when 
dealing with elderly patients and monitor blood pressure carefully. 

"It's also important that the level of carbon dioxide in the blood is not 
allowed to drop too low." 
<>


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Re: [Biofuel] GM RICE INDUSTRY FACING MELTDOWN - FoE

[Jason& Katie]

YEEEHAAA! BAYER MUST DIE!!!
- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 11:33 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] GM RICE INDUSTRY FACING MELTDOWN - FoE


GM WATCH daily
---
---
1.GE rice industry facing meltdown as global tide of rejection grows
- Greenpeace
2.Re: GM RICE INDUSTRY FACING MELTDOWN - FoE
3.Bayer defends genetic contamination as "Act of God" - Greenpeace
---
---
1.GE rice industry facing meltdown as global tide of rejection grows
Bayer, global pusher of GE rice must admit defeat, says Greenpeace
GREENPEACE PRESS RELEASE

International 6 February 2007 - - The global rejection of genetically
engineered rice is revealed today as 41 of the world'Äôs biggest
exporters, processors and retailers issued written commitments to
stay GE free. The worldwide tide of opposition is contained in the
new Greenpeace rice markets report.

The report 'Rice Industry in Crisis' carries extracts of company
statements covering Asia, Europe, Australia, and North and South
America. (1) and includes a commitment from the world'Äôs largest
rice processor, Ebro Puleva, to stop buying US rice. This follows a
major contamination incident in 2006, when the world's rice supply
was contaminated with an experimental and illegal variety of GE rice
produced by biotech company Bayer.

"Bayer is aggressively pursuing commercial approvals for its GE rice
globally, including in Europe and Brazil, yet refuses to accept
responsibility for the major financial damage its unauthorised GE
rice has caused in the US and elsewhere. Indeed, Bayer is blaming
hardworking farmers or 'acts of God' for these problems when all
signs point to Bayer being at fault," (4) said Adam Levitt, a partner
in the Chicago office of the law firm of Wolf Haldenstein Adler
Freeman & Herz 'Äì one of the law firms leading the prosecution of
these cases against Bayer.

"This global contamination and global market rejection of GE rice
clearly shows the need for Bayer to withdraw from any further GE rice
development," said Jeremy Tager, Greenpeace International rice
campaigner. "Bayer proves that GE rice is too risky. Through field
trials alone Bayer caused massive financial damage to the global rice
industry. The commercial growing of GE rice must never become a
reality; the impact on the world's most important food crop would be
disastrous."

The report also examines the significant economic implications of the
Bayer contamination, including when rice futures prices plummeted
$150 million -- the sharpest one-day decline in years. Experts have
predicted that US rice exports may decline by as much as16% in
2006/2007. (2) Several multi-million dollar class action lawsuits
have been filed by US farmers who refuse to bear the financial burden
of Bayer's irresponsible and negligent conduct. The farmers claim
that Bayer is responsible for the contamination of rice supplies and
the economic losses the U.S. rice farmers have suffered as a result
and must compensate farmers for the monetary and other losses that
they have sustained as a result of Bayer'Äôs improper conduct. (3)

In addition to the class action lawsuits, several individual lawsuits
have also been filed and there are also anecdotal reports that
European traders contemplating legal action. As a result of the
contamination of the rice supply with Baye's GE rice farmers,
millers, traders and retailers around the globe are facing massive
financial costs, including testing and recall costs, cancelled
orders, import bans, brand damage and consumer distrust 'Äì distrust
that could last for years.

"Governments from around the world must respond to the economic,
market and environmental damage caused by the 2006 GE rice
contamination and reject outright any GE rice food and cultivation
applications currently on the table," said Tager. "GE rice should not
be developed as genetic engineering is an unnecessary, unwanted and
outdated technology that threatens the world'Äôs most important
staple food."

Greenpeace campaigns for GE-free crop and food production grounded on
the principles of sustainability, protection of biodiversity and
providing all people access to safe and nutritious food. Genetic
engineering is an unnecessary and unwanted technology that
contaminates the environment, threatens biodiversity and poses
unacceptable risks to health.

For more information and interviews
Jeremy Tager, Greenpeace International GE campaigner, +31 6 4622 1185
Adam Levitt, partner, Wolf Haldenstein Adler Freeman & Herz LLC,
312-984-, U.S. lawyer representing rice farmers in U.S.-based
class action litigation against Bayer
Namrata Chowdhary, Greenpeace International communications officer
+31 6 4619 7327

Notes to editors
(1) Company statements received from the following countries: Japan,
Switzerland, France, Hong Kong, Germany, Australia, Pakistan,
Thailand, India, Brazil, Spain, Canada and the UK. For statements see
pages 7 'Äì 12 of the Rice markets report:
http://w

Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is rising!C02 isrising!A scientific Rebutal

[JAMES PHELPS]

Thats a good point Joe I heard a deal on NPR about the worlds Oceans are 
absorbing most of the Co2 - albeit it is starting to cause more sinister 
problems as a result.

It seems to stand to reason as it was algae that created the oil, that we 
are turning to carbon, in the first place.
Jim


>From: Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is 
>rising!C02 isrising!A scientific Rebutal
>Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 16:01:49 -0500
>
>This is speculation but I would be willing to bet that more CO2 is sunk 
>into algae around the world than forests or crops.
>
>Joe
>
>Randall wrote:
>
>>Phillip,
>>
>>
>>
... At the same time, 85% of the world's forests (which are natural 
carbon sinks) have been destroyed or degraded. ...


>>
>>Could you be a little more specific?  I agree with Jim, those numbers seem 
>>VERY high and the term "degraded" seems a bit vague.
>>
>>
>>
... The info came from the World Resources Institute (www.wri.org) 
There's a  ton of useful stuff on their site.


>>
>>Where, specifically, on www.wri.org can this information be found and then 
>>verified?
>>
>>--Randall
>>Concord, NC
>>
>>
>>- Original Message - From: "JAMES PHELPS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: 
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 2:03 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is rising!C02 
>>isrising!A scientific Rebutal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Well I am not sure I buy 85%.  This seems a bit skewed as high.  I say 
>>>this
>>>because not all mans activities have been adverse. in example, The 
>>>Dakotas
>>>have a hundred fold more trees than existed 200 years ago.  There are 
>>>also
>>>more crops in production that are bigger co2 gulpers than native crops.
>>>
>>>I also understand this is just a very small snapshot in the whole scheme 
>>>of
>>>things and the fact that those crops can also be used to create methane 
>>>as a
>>>result of feed stocks and so forth.
>>>
>>>But when we use numbers like that, we will tend to disenchant those on 
>>>the
>>>edge of understanding.
>>>
>>>Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>___
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>>
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>>
>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
>>messages):
>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>


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Re: [Biofuel] The Anti-Empire Report

[Randall]

What nations have had an entirely "civil" history?
  - Original Message - 
  From: Joe Street 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 4:03 PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Anti-Empire Report


  Since when is 'America' a country??

  Frank Navarrete wrote:

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without
civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde
 
Only to be imprisoned in "civilized" England for being homosexual and 
forced to do hard labor which led to his death.  Let's not fool ourselves into 
thinking that any Western nations have a civil history.  

Frank


 
On 2/4/07, Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
  The historian Toynbee said something similar. He said America was the 
only western country to decline before it reached its peak.

  Kirk 


  Jason& Katie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence 
without 
civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde



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Re: [Biofuel] The Anti-Empire Report

[Joe Street]

Since when is 'America' a country??

Frank Navarrete wrote:


America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without
civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde
 
Only to be imprisoned in "civilized" England for being homosexual and 
forced to do hard labor which led to his death.  Let's not fool 
ourselves into thinking that any Western nations have a civil history. 
 
Frank
 

 
On 2/4/07, *Kirk McLoren* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


The historian Toynbee said something similar. He said America was
the only western country to decline before it reached its peak.
 
Kirk



*/Jason& Katie <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >/* wrote:

America is the only country that went from barbarism to
decadence without
civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde



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Date: 2/2/2007 11:39 PM


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Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is rising!C02 isrising!A scientific Rebutal

[Joe Street]

This is speculation but I would be willing to bet that more CO2 is sunk 
into algae around the world than forests or crops.


Joe

Randall wrote:


Phillip,

 

... At the same time, 85% of the world's forests (which are natural 
carbon sinks) have been destroyed or degraded. ...
 



Could you be a little more specific?  I agree with Jim, those numbers seem 
VERY high and the term "degraded" seems a bit vague.


 

... The info came from the World Resources Institute (www.wri.org) There's 
a  ton of useful stuff on their site.
 



Where, specifically, on www.wri.org can this information be found and then 
verified?


--Randall
Concord, NC


- Original Message - 
From: "JAMES PHELPS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is rising!C02 
isrising!A scientific Rebutal



 

Well I am not sure I buy 85%.  This seems a bit skewed as high.  I say 
this

because not all mans activities have been adverse. in example, The Dakotas
have a hundred fold more trees than existed 200 years ago.  There are also
more crops in production that are bigger co2 gulpers than native crops.

I also understand this is just a very small snapshot in the whole scheme 
of
things and the fact that those crops can also be used to create methane as 
a

result of feed stocks and so forth.

But when we use numbers like that, we will tend to disenchant those on the
edge of understanding.

Jim


   





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Re: [Biofuel] Mass-Produced Electric Cars

[darryl]

It's not as if we really have any mass-produced electric cars to take  
issue with at this point.  Pity that's a problem we don't have.  (The  
Prius is NOT an electric car.  It is an electric-assist gas car.)

I'm not going to argue against walking or cycling.  I spent three  
years lobbying my provincial government to legalize electric-assist  
bikes here.  Finally won that one, temporarily at least, last fall.   
So, I do know something about the issue of current legislation, and  
I'm currently beating my head against another regulatory bureaucratic  
brick wall.

If we want to talk about energy and environmental impact, let's put  
the zero-emissions (point of use), up to 80% efficient electric bike  
up against the 20% efficient (best case) meat engine that produces  
greenhouse gases (CO2), liquid and solid waste products.  Where the  
electricity comes from is a matter of personal choice.  I buy Green  
Tags so that the equivalent of the electricity I pull from the grid is  
produced from wind power.  It takes food to fuel the meat engine, and  
we have discussed food-miles here previously.

I'm all in favour of better designed communities and public transit  
services that actually serve the public.  Not something I have much  
personal experience with, I'm sorry to say.  That's from someone who  
does walk and cycle to local shops and rides the local bus system most  
days.

It has taken North America about 60 years of conscious community  
design to get us to the point that urban sprawl is the norm, and we  
are so car dependent.  That's not going to get fixed overnight.  Just  
now, it's a bit chilly hereabouts (-23 C when I went out the door this  
morning, ignoring wind chill).  My son is still up to cycling in this  
weather, but I prefer a bit more protection from the elements any more  
under these conditions.

For many of us, working within walking distance of home simply isn't  
an option - our cities are designed to segregate places of work from  
residential areas and there is often a goodly distance in between.   
Further, transit systems often don't cater to even the majority of  
residents.  So, if I need to travel 30 km or more each way on my  
commute and transit is not available or practical, then a car becomes  
the practical year-round alternative.  (Actually, I did move home to  
be closer to work about 19 years ago - then the job moved, then it  
disappeared.  I haven't seen a job since I felt was worth the effort.   
The long commutes are not always by choice or easily remedied.)

Would a world without massive, mass-produced (and consumed) cars and  
light trucks be better than what we have today?  Probably, and I  
encourage all to work toward that better world.  In my experience,  
there is no silver bullet to get us there.  We need to use many of the  
alternatives open to us to make the advances we want as quickly as  
possible.  (There's a pretty good survey of consumer-level options in  
the second half of my book, The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy.)

Until then, I think electric vehicles (vs. the dominant petro-powered  
beasts today) would make a valuable contribution on the road to the  
future.

As for those oldies and classics, well, they were mass-produced at one  
point in time.

Darryl McMahon
(P.S.  I spent last evening hosting a showing of "Who Killed the  
Electric Car?" at the local environmental shop and discussing various  
options for reducing greenhouse gas emissions).

Quoting Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Well said Dawie (hoezit daar in die ou Kaap?).
>
> High time perhaps to resurrect the old WWII propaganda poster "Is
> your journey really necessary?" (Is your air-conditioner/whatever
> ((lifestyle)) really necessary?)
>
> You might enjoy this, if you haven't read it already:
> "How much fuel can we grow? How much land will it take?"
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html#howmuch
>
> "A sustainable energy future requires great reductions in energy use,
> great improvements in energy efficiency, and decentralisation of
> supply to the local-economy level, along with the use of all
> ready-to-use renewable energy technologies in combination as local
> circumstances require."
>
> You're right about the comparative eco-manufacturing costs of a Prius
> and an old Landie. But we don't have the Landies now. We sold one
> before we left Hong Kong, and sold the other in Tokyo (to the guy who
> restored the first Toyota FJ40 made, for Toyota's museum).
>
> Now we use a 1990 Toyota TownAce 4x4 diesel van and a Daihatsu
> K-truck, more re which here:
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg55611.html
> [Biofuel] K-trucks in the US - Re: advancement of car technology
>
> K-trucks are cheap, and cheap to build, but they're real trucks, just small.
>
>> The problem with today's cars is exactly that they are
>> mass-produced. Mass-producing electric cars isn't going to solve
>> that.
>
> Yeah, which one's top of the pops this ye

Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is rising!C02 isrising!A scientific Rebutal

[Randall]

Phillip,

>> ... At the same time, 85% of the world's forests (which are natural 
>> carbon sinks) have been destroyed or degraded. ...

Could you be a little more specific?  I agree with Jim, those numbers seem 
VERY high and the term "degraded" seems a bit vague.

>>... The info came from the World Resources Institute (www.wri.org) There's 
>>a  ton of useful stuff on their site.

Where, specifically, on www.wri.org can this information be found and then 
verified?

--Randall
Concord, NC


- Original Message - 
From: "JAMES PHELPS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is rising!C02 
isrising!A scientific Rebutal


> Well I am not sure I buy 85%.  This seems a bit skewed as high.  I say 
> this
> because not all mans activities have been adverse. in example, The Dakotas
> have a hundred fold more trees than existed 200 years ago.  There are also
> more crops in production that are bigger co2 gulpers than native crops.
>
> I also understand this is just a very small snapshot in the whole scheme 
> of
> things and the fact that those crops can also be used to create methane as 
> a
> result of feed stocks and so forth.
>
> But when we use numbers like that, we will tend to disenchant those on the
> edge of understanding.
>
> Jim
>
>



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Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is rising!C02 isrising!A scientific Rebutal

[JAMES PHELPS]

Well I am not sure I buy 85%.  This seems a bit skewed as high.  I say this 
because not all mans activities have been adverse. in example, The Dakotas 
have a hundred fold more trees than existed 200 years ago.  There are also 
more crops in production that are bigger co2 gulpers than native crops.

I also understand this is just a very small snapshot in the whole scheme of 
things and the fact that those crops can also be used to create methane as a 
result of feed stocks and so forth.

But when we use numbers like that, we will tend to disenchant those on the 
edge of understanding.

Jim


>From: Philip Gwinnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>To: 
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is rising!C02 
>isrising!A scientific Rebutal
>Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 03:23:43 +
>
>
>Jim,
>
>The info came from the World Resources Institute (www.wri.org) There's a 
>ton of useful stuff on their site.
>
>Best Regards
>
>Philip
>Hainan Bioenergy
>
>
>
>
>
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 13:43:40 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is rising!C02 
>isrising!A scientific Rebutal
> >
> > Phillip wrote
> > Snip At the same time, 85% of the world's forests (which are natural 
>carbon
> > sinks) have been destroyed or degraded.
> >
> > Phillip, Where do you get this data?  Does this number include the 
>replanted
> > areas of forest and Higher plant life (co2 absorption) as a result of
> > irrigation and pulp?
> >
> > Not in dispute but I would like to know how it is derived.
> >
> > Jim
> >
>
> >
> > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
>messages):
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> >
>
>_
>Personalize your Live.com homepage with the news, weather, and photos you 
>care about.
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>
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>messages):
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Re: [Biofuel] Mass-Produced Electric Cars

[Keith Addison]

>Dawie Coetzee wrote:
> > The bulk of one's effort should be oriented to developing a living
> > environment in which driving is unnecessary, and walking supported by
> > public transport is the obvious way to get from A to B. Given that,
> > the entirely subsidiary project of designing cars and fuels concerns
> > not so much cleaner cars and cleaner fuels, but types of vehicle and
> > fuel best suited to manufacture for a very-low-demand scenario.
>
>I love it when people promote public transportation like this.
>
>Of course, I may be biased, being a driver for a no-fare public
>transportation service, but still... I'll take all the advertisement I
>can get!
>
>-Kurt

:-)

A man for our times - you'll go straight to heaven Kurt.

Um, you don't also happen to make compost, do you? You get to go to 
heaven for that too. If you do I suppose you'll just have to go to 
heaven twice.

Best

Keith


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[Biofuel] GM RICE INDUSTRY FACING MELTDOWN - FoE

[Keith Addison]

GM WATCH daily
---
---
1.GE rice industry facing meltdown as global tide of rejection grows 
- Greenpeace
2.Re: GM RICE INDUSTRY FACING MELTDOWN - FoE
3.Bayer defends genetic contamination as "Act of God" - Greenpeace
---
---
1.GE rice industry facing meltdown as global tide of rejection grows
Bayer, global pusher of GE rice must admit defeat, says Greenpeace
GREENPEACE PRESS RELEASE

International 6 February 2007 - - The global rejection of genetically 
engineered rice is revealed today as 41 of the world’Äôs biggest 
exporters, processors and retailers issued written commitments to 
stay GE free. The worldwide tide of opposition is contained in the 
new Greenpeace rice markets report.

The report 'Rice Industry in Crisis' carries extracts of company 
statements covering Asia, Europe, Australia, and North and South 
America. (1) and includes a commitment from the world’Äôs largest 
rice processor, Ebro Puleva, to stop buying US rice. This follows a 
major contamination incident in 2006, when the world's rice supply 
was contaminated with an experimental and illegal variety of GE rice 
produced by biotech company Bayer.

"Bayer is aggressively pursuing commercial approvals for its GE rice 
globally, including in Europe and Brazil, yet refuses to accept 
responsibility for the major financial damage its unauthorised GE 
rice has caused in the US and elsewhere. Indeed, Bayer is blaming 
hardworking farmers or 'acts of God' for these problems when all 
signs point to Bayer being at fault," (4) said Adam Levitt, a partner 
in the Chicago office of the law firm of Wolf Haldenstein Adler 
Freeman & Herz ’Äì one of the law firms leading the prosecution of 
these cases against Bayer.

"This global contamination and global market rejection of GE rice 
clearly shows the need for Bayer to withdraw from any further GE rice 
development," said Jeremy Tager, Greenpeace International rice 
campaigner. "Bayer proves that GE rice is too risky. Through field 
trials alone Bayer caused massive financial damage to the global rice 
industry. The commercial growing of GE rice must never become a 
reality; the impact on the world's most important food crop would be 
disastrous."

The report also examines the significant economic implications of the 
Bayer contamination, including when rice futures prices plummeted 
$150 million -- the sharpest one-day decline in years. Experts have 
predicted that US rice exports may decline by as much as16% in 
2006/2007. (2) Several multi-million dollar class action lawsuits 
have been filed by US farmers who refuse to bear the financial burden 
of Bayer's irresponsible and negligent conduct. The farmers claim 
that Bayer is responsible for the contamination of rice supplies and 
the economic losses the U.S. rice farmers have suffered as a result 
and must compensate farmers for the monetary and other losses that 
they have sustained as a result of Bayer’Äôs improper conduct. (3)

In addition to the class action lawsuits, several individual lawsuits 
have also been filed and there are also anecdotal reports that 
European traders contemplating legal action. As a result of the 
contamination of the rice supply with Baye's GE rice farmers, 
millers, traders and retailers around the globe are facing massive 
financial costs, including testing and recall costs, cancelled 
orders, import bans, brand damage and consumer distrust ’Äì distrust 
that could last for years.

"Governments from around the world must respond to the economic, 
market and environmental damage caused by the 2006 GE rice 
contamination and reject outright any GE rice food and cultivation 
applications currently on the table," said Tager. "GE rice should not 
be developed as genetic engineering is an unnecessary, unwanted and 
outdated technology that threatens the world’Äôs most important 
staple food."

Greenpeace campaigns for GE-free crop and food production grounded on 
the principles of sustainability, protection of biodiversity and 
providing all people access to safe and nutritious food. Genetic 
engineering is an unnecessary and unwanted technology that 
contaminates the environment, threatens biodiversity and poses 
unacceptable risks to health.

For more information and interviews
Jeremy Tager, Greenpeace International GE campaigner, +31 6 4622 1185
Adam Levitt, partner, Wolf Haldenstein Adler Freeman & Herz LLC, 
312-984-, U.S. lawyer representing rice farmers in U.S.-based 
class action litigation against Bayer
Namrata Chowdhary, Greenpeace International communications officer 
+31 6 4619 7327

Notes to editors
(1) Company statements received from the following countries: Japan, 
Switzerland, France, Hong Kong, Germany, Australia, Pakistan, 
Thailand, India, Brazil, Spain, Canada and the UK. For statements see 
pages 7 ’Äì 12 of the Rice markets report: 
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/press/reports/rice-industry-in 
-crisis/

(2) Elias P. 2006. California growers fear biotech rice threat. 
Washington Po

Re: [Biofuel] Mass-Produced Electric Cars

[Keith Addison]

Well said Dawie (hoezit daar in die ou Kaap?).

High time perhaps to resurrect the old WWII propaganda poster "Is 
your journey really necessary?" (Is your air-conditioner/whatever 
((lifestyle)) really necessary?)

You might enjoy this, if you haven't read it already:
"How much fuel can we grow? How much land will it take?"
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html#howmuch

"A sustainable energy future requires great reductions in energy use, 
great improvements in energy efficiency, and decentralisation of 
supply to the local-economy level, along with the use of all 
ready-to-use renewable energy technologies in combination as local 
circumstances require."

You're right about the comparative eco-manufacturing costs of a Prius 
and an old Landie. But we don't have the Landies now. We sold one 
before we left Hong Kong, and sold the other in Tokyo (to the guy who 
restored the first Toyota FJ40 made, for Toyota's museum).

Now we use a 1990 Toyota TownAce 4x4 diesel van and a Daihatsu 
K-truck, more re which here:

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg55611.html
[Biofuel] K-trucks in the US - Re: advancement of car technology

K-trucks are cheap, and cheap to build, but they're real trucks, just small.

>The problem with today's cars is exactly that they are 
>mass-produced. Mass-producing electric cars isn't going to solve 
>that.

Yeah, which one's top of the pops this year? They still can't sell 
them all, even with endless new models and billions in fashion hype.

Pre-60s technology and consumption patterns weren't that bad, you 
could do it much more efficiently and cleaner these days. Not quite 
sure how you'd manage to build current CEO salaries into it though... 
(let alone the current legislation).

Best

Keith


>The problem with most electrics is that the job they do best of all 
>is the job we should be doing with our feet.
>
>The entire debate around the ecology of transport is that the matter 
>of scale is always left out. Arguments rage about so many of 
>molecule x versus so many of molecule y, without ever considering 
>that patterns of use will radically influence the overall volume of 
>molecules we're talking about. The first issue should be to address 
>vehicle use patterns. This requires a holistic approach, and a sound 
>appreciation of the purposes of most vehicle trips, and how that 
>relates to the structure of cities.
>
>The bulk of one's effort should be oriented to developing a living 
>environment in which driving is unnecessary, and walking supported 
>by public transport is the obvious way to get from A to B. Given 
>that, the entirely subsidiary project of designing cars and fuels 
>concerns not so much cleaner cars and cleaner fuels, but types of 
>vehicle and fuel best suited to manufacture for a very-low-demand 
>scenario.
>
>The beauty of ethanol and biodiesel is predominantly that it is 
>perfectly suited to such a scenario. If motor vehicles are rare, we 
>aren't going to run them on a fuel that requires drilling very 
>expensive holes in another country. We would need a fuel that can be 
>made in small quantities as an agricultural by-product.
>
>The same applies to manufacture of vehicles. In the light of the 
>above, the Toyota Prius is an ecological disaster compared with 
>Keith's Landies, or other classics, or something Lotus-7-ish, or a 
>traditional hot rod, or a proper motorbike made out of bent tubing. 
>Note how typical current legislation militates against this approach.
>
>-Dawie


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Re: [Biofuel] Help Wanted

[Adithya sridhar]

wat kinda help u looking for?.

On 2/7/07, Philip Gwinnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Amongst all you smart people on the mailing list do we perchace have a
mechanical engineer who can help me with a set of helical gears to drive a
solar device I'm building? I know what it looks like but I need assistance
on the technical front.

All replies gratefully accepted.

Best Regards,

Philip
Hainan Bioenergy


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Re: [Biofuel] Mass-Produced Electric Cars

[Kurt Nolte]

Dawie Coetzee wrote:
> The bulk of one's effort should be oriented to developing a living 
> environment in which driving is unnecessary, and walking supported by 
> public transport is the obvious way to get from A to B. Given that, 
> the entirely subsidiary project of designing cars and fuels concerns 
> not so much cleaner cars and cleaner fuels, but types of vehicle and 
> fuel best suited to manufacture for a very-low-demand scenario.

I love it when people promote public transportation like this.

Of course, I may be biased, being a driver for a no-fare public 
transportation service, but still... I'll take all the advertisement I 
can get!

-Kurt


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[Biofuel] Help Wanted

[Philip Gwinnell]

Amongst all you smart people on the mailing list do we perchace have a 
mechanical engineer who can help me with a set of helical gears to drive a 
solar device I'm building? I know what it looks like but I need assistance on 
the technical front.

All replies gratefully accepted.

Best Regards,

Philip 
Hainan Bioenergy


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[Biofuel] Purdue develops bio-reactor generator for waste

[Paul S Cantrell]

Purdue Scientists develop portable generator that turns trash into
electricityhttp://news.uns.purdue.edu/x/2007a/070201LadischBio.html

Initially, it is for the military, but will be commercially available soon.

This seems like something that wouldn't be that hard to replicate on
the home or farm scale, integrated with a biodiesel processor.  It's
basically an industrial yeast ethanol plant with a gasifier and a
diesel engine cogenerating power and heat.  The devil is in the
details, but the expertise in biodiesel production and ethanol
distillation would go a long way to building one to make one's self
energy and waste neutral.

The large photo (2300Kb) shows more detail:
http://news.uns.purdue.edu/images/+2007/mosier-biorefinery.jpg

-- 
Thanks,
PC

He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch

An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made
in a very narrow field. - Niels Bohr  (1885 - 1962)

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Re: [Biofuel] Mass-Produced Electric Cars

[David Atkins]

Agree with that. I would like to add that nature has given us 
the perfect energy supply chain, as we consume good foods and 
develop layers of fat energy with which to use (carbon free 
although some methane occasionally escapes..), so the only real 
sustainable energy is to use your legs a little more.

I'm as guilty as the next guy for not doing this, but in order 
to get further down this road we must consume local products as 
much as possible - and there is no reason biofuels production 
on a local level shouldnt be a little step towards this...



> The problem with today's cars is exactly that they are 
> mass-produced. Mass-producing electric cars isn't going to 
> solve that.
> 
> The problem with most electrics is that the job they do best of 
> all is the job we should be doing with our feet.
> 
> The entire debate around the ecology of transport is that the 
> matter of scale is always left out. Arguments rage about so 
> many of molecule x versus so many of molecule y, without ever 
> considering that patterns of use will radically influence the 
> overall volume of molecules we're talking about. The first 
> issue should be to address vehicle use patterns. This requires a 
> holistic approach, and a sound appreciation of the purposes of 
> most vehicle trips, and how that relates to the structure of 
> cities.
> 
> The bulk of one's effort should be oriented to developing a 
> living environment in which driving is unnecessary, and walking 
> supported by public transport is the obvious way to get from A 
> to B. Given that, the entirely subsidiary project of designing 
> cars and fuels concerns not so much cleaner cars and cleaner 
> fuels, but types of vehicle and fuel best suited to manufacture 
> for a very-low-demand scenario.
> 
> The beauty of ethanol and biodiesel is predominantly that it is 
> perfectly suited to such a scenario. If motor vehicles are 
> rare, we aren't going to run them on a fuel that requires 
> drilling very expensive holes in another country. We would need 
> a fuel that can be made in small quantities as an agricultural 
> by-product.
> 
> The same applies to manufacture of vehicles. In the light of 
> the above, the Toyota Prius is an ecological disaster compared 
> with Keith's Landies, or other classics, or something 
> Lotus-7-ish, or a traditional hot rod, or a proper motorbike 
> made out of bent tubing. Note how typical current legislation 
> militates against this approach.
> 
> -Dawie
> 
> 
>   
> ___ 
> The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email 
> address from your Internet provider. 
> http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
> 
> This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - 
> www.mailcontrol.com
> 

-- 
David Atkins
JG Palmer LLP


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Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is rising!C02 isrising!A scientific Rebutal

[Keith Addison]

Hello Philip

>Dear Keith,
>
>Well you may think he talks a lot of bollocks

Actually I think I proved it. I also think you didn't read the 
message I reffed. Why don't you do so now? Here it is again:
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg68246.html
Re: [Biofuel] DISTILLERY DEMAND FOR GRAIN TO FUEL CARS VASTLY UNDERSTATE

Lester Brown thinks he's talking about food. Do you think he's 
talking about food? - you know, stuff people eat with their mouths 
when they're hungry to keep them going. This is what he's talking 
about:

> > http://faculty.plattsburgh.edu/richard.robbins/legacy/hunger_readings.htm
> > Readings on Hunger, Poverty, and Economic Development
> >
> > B. Food as a Commodity
> > To understand why people go hungry you must stop thinking
> > about food as something farmers grow for others to eat, and begin
> > thinking about it as something companies produce for other people to
> > buy.  Food is a commodity.

Yea verily. Or:

> > http://www.jhsph.edu/clf/events_new/dodge_lectures/dodge_lecture.html
> > JHU Center for a Livable Future - Dodge Lecture
> > An Agronomist's View of Public Health
> >March 27, 2000
> >
> >Dennis R. Keeney, Ph.D.
> >Emeritus Director, Aldo Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture
> >Iowa State University
> >
> >   Midwest grain-based agriculture produces not food but feed for
> > animals (fat), fructose (sweeteners) and fuel (ethanol). It is thus
> > not a healthy, sustainable agriculture. Rather than feeding the
> > hungry, this production of grains causes environmental degradation,
> > pollution of waterways and estuaries, abandoned farms and rural
> > out-migration. Over time this hopefully will change to an agriculture
> > based on food, not feed.

Or or or. Okay? Not food. He's talking bollocks.

>but if you check other sites on global deforestation then you'll 
>find that his stats are pretty accurate.

Philip said:
> > >There's a ton of useful stuff on their site.

Keith replied:
> > Yes there is, and ...

I'm not unaware of the situation with global forestation, nor was I 
arguing about it, and I don't know why you want to.

>As we all know, truth is a question of presentation

Huh?

Best

Keith


>so to use his raw data to draw conclusions is not unreasonable.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Philip
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 13:46:26 +0900
> > To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is 
>rising!C02 isrising!A scientific Rebutal
> >
> > Hello Philip
> >
> > >Jim,
> > >
> > >The info came from the World Resources Institute (www.wri.org)
> > >There's a ton of useful stuff on their site.
> >
> > Yes there is, and a lot of less than useful stuff too. Recent post:
> >
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg68246.html
> > Re: [Biofuel] DISTILLERY DEMAND FOR GRAIN TO FUEL CARS VASTLY UNDERSTATE
> >
> > WRI founder and chairman Lester Brown talks a load of bollocks, for
> > "one of the world's most influential thinkers" and "the guru of the
> > environmental movement". LOL!
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Keith
> >
> >
> > >Best Regards
> > >
> > >Philip
> > >Hainan Bioenergy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > > > Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 13:43:40 -0700
> > > > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is
> > >rising!C02 isrising!A scientific Rebutal
> > > >
> > > > Phillip wrote
> > > > Snip At the same time, 85% of the world's forests (which are 
>natural carbon
> > > > sinks) have been destroyed or degraded.
> > > >
> > > > Phillip, Where do you get this data?  Does this number include
> > >the replanted
> > > > areas of forest and Higher plant life (co2 absorption) as a result of
> > > > irrigation and pulp?
> > > >
> > > > Not in dispute but I would like to know how it is derived.
> > > >
> > > > Jim




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Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is rising!C02 isrising!A scientific Rebutal

[Philip Gwinnell]

Dear Keith,

Well you may think he talks a lot of bollocks but if you check other sites on 
global deforestation then you'll find that his stats are pretty accurate. As we 
all know, truth is a question of presentation so to use his raw data to draw 
conclusions is not unreasonable.

Best Regards,

Philip





> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 13:46:26 +0900
> To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is rising!C02 
> isrising!A scientific Rebutal
> 
> Hello Philip
> 
> >Jim,
> >
> >The info came from the World Resources Institute (www.wri.org) 
> >There's a ton of useful stuff on their site.
> 
> Yes there is, and a lot of less than useful stuff too. Recent post:
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg68246.html
> Re: [Biofuel] DISTILLERY DEMAND FOR GRAIN TO FUEL CARS VASTLY UNDERSTATE
> 
> WRI founder and chairman Lester Brown talks a load of bollocks, for 
> "one of the world's most influential thinkers" and "the guru of the 
> environmental movement". LOL!
> 
> Best
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> >Best Regards
> >
> >Philip
> >Hainan Bioenergy
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > > Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 13:43:40 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is 
> >rising!C02 isrising!A scientific Rebutal
> > >
> > > Phillip wrote
> > > Snip At the same time, 85% of the world's forests (which are natural 
> > > carbon
> > > sinks) have been destroyed or degraded.
> > >
> > > Phillip, Where do you get this data?  Does this number include 
> >the replanted
> > > areas of forest and Higher plant life (co2 absorption) as a result of
> > > irrigation and pulp?
> > >
> > > Not in dispute but I would like to know how it is derived.
> > >
> > > Jim
> 
> 
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Re: [Biofuel] Mass-Produced Electric Cars

[Dawie Coetzee]

The problem with today's cars is exactly that they are mass-produced. 
Mass-producing electric cars isn't going to solve that.

The problem with most electrics is that the job they do best of all is the job 
we should be doing with our feet.

The entire debate around the ecology of transport is that the matter of scale 
is always left out. Arguments rage about so many of molecule x versus so many 
of molecule y, without ever considering that patterns of use will radically 
influence the overall volume of molecules we're talking about. The first issue 
should be to address vehicle use patterns. This requires a holistic approach, 
and a sound appreciation of the purposes of most vehicle trips, and how that 
relates to the structure of cities.

The bulk of one's effort should be oriented to developing a living environment 
in which driving is unnecessary, and walking supported by public transport is 
the obvious way to get from A to B. Given that, the entirely subsidiary project 
of designing cars and fuels concerns not so much cleaner cars and cleaner 
fuels, but types of vehicle and fuel best suited to manufacture for a 
very-low-demand scenario.

The beauty of ethanol and biodiesel is predominantly that it is perfectly 
suited to such a scenario. If motor vehicles are rare, we aren't going to run 
them on a fuel that requires drilling very expensive holes in another country. 
We would need a fuel that can be made in small quantities as an agricultural 
by-product.

The same applies to manufacture of vehicles. In the light of the above, the 
Toyota Prius is an ecological disaster compared with Keith's Landies, or other 
classics, or something Lotus-7-ish, or a traditional hot rod, or a proper 
motorbike made out of bent tubing. Note how typical current legislation 
militates against this approach.

-Dawie



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Re: [Biofuel] Convert your Microwave oven to make Colloidal Silver

[Kirk McLoren]

As a retired aerospace engineer I want to say Joe is absolutely correct.
  Now youve heard it twice. 
  Some things are just not worth it.
  Besides, as I posted earlier only 1% of that voltage is needed and if high 
voltage was better dont you think it would be used commercially?
   
  Kirk

Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  See! See! A quick test will a meter might leave you lying on the floor 
witrh your heart all a twitter. What meter will you use to check 3500 V 
DC? What voltage are the leads good for? Did you know that even dirt 
on the outside of the lead wires can be enough of a conductive path to 
let the discharge flow right down the surface to your hands? No 
probably not. And it would not be something intuitively obvious to 
anyone who has not been trained how to work with HV. Because it is not 
obvious and everyone has to be taught these things. Did you know that 
the dielectric in a HV capacitor will usually recharge itself quite 
significantly after a single discharge? It is also a naive assumption 
that pulling the plug will leave the cap discharged.
No offence to you Logan, but your post just serves to illustrate my point.

Joe

Logan vilas wrote:

>If turn on the microwave and pull the plug while it's running that would
>discharge most if not all of the power in the capacitor I would think. A
>quick test from a meter would verify if it still had power or not.
>
>Logan Vilas
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kirk McLoren
>Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 2:19 PM
>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Convert your Microwave oven to make Colloidal Silver
>
>I think the commercial process was the Katadyne process. You pull an arc
>between two silver electrodes under distilled water and filter the result
>since you will have a mix of sizes. I think they use something around 30 to
>60 volts. High amperage as you want a plasma. When it goes out you restrike.
> 
>Kirk
>
>"D. Mindock" wrote:
>
> Hi Joe,
> I would bring the oven to a shop that routinely repairs them to
>have that capacitor discharged safely. The thing with
> using the oven's electronics (no magnetron needed) was the very high
>rate of production of CS. Also, it is a higher use of the oven as they do
>change the characteristics of protein into something dangerous, i.e.,
>carcinogenic. My wife thinks they're a godsend. I can't convince her of
>their intrinsic danger. I've told her that when the damn thing goes bad that
>I am not replacing it. Myself, I don't use it, even for heating water, since
>it changes the structure of the water. The microwave
> oven is another modern marvel that has lessened life.
> If CS is made with distilled water in a constant current device
>using four nines (99.99%) or better pure silver, it will be safe to consume.
>I use it to stop the progression of periodontal disease. I have a bad case
>of it. Also am using ozonated
> water. I have no problem with killing of friendly gut flora, but I
>do take a good probiotic to hedge my bets. 
> Peace, D. Mindock
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: Joe Street 
> To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Convert your Microwave oven to make
>Colloidal Silver
>
> OMG please don't do this!
> The capacitor in a microwave oven contains several joules of
>energy! This is sufficient to kill you and has done to more than one
>unsuspecting soul who has decided to tinker around inside the microwave
>oven. The article below even goes to the extent of warning you to discharge
>the cap before doing any assembly work but then it goes on at the end in
>bold red saying the danger is not in operating the beast but in its
>construction. It doesn't say anythingabout how you are supposed to
>discharge the cap before you try to remove the electrode from the jar! 
> 
> Trust me colloidal siver can be easily made using voltage as
>low as 20 volts and with current limiting. It will take a little longer (15
>minutes) to make a batch ( I do half a litre at a time) but current
>limiting is important because it keeps particle size down in the low
>nanometer range where it needs to be in order to make a good colloid. I use
>a little wall wart type transformer for this. Half a litre IS high volume.
>Considering that the most effective way to use the stuff is to put it in a
>nasal sprayer and use it directly on ther mucous linings at THE FIRST SIGN
>of a sore throat ( not effective at later stages) and you are using perhaps
>1ml at a time, half a litre will last your entire family a year or more.
>DON'T drink the stuff unless you want to kill off beneficial bacteria in
>your GI tract. Pink eye is easily and quickly cured with repeated misting
>of the open eye, but again it is working on contact. There are many other
>uses for the stuff which I won't get into but it is basically a powerful
>anit-bacterial which works on contact against single cell