Re: [Biofuel] Purity of KOH
I think so also. The biodiesel process is not a thing to be undertaken in a casual way. I don't think the JtoF site should be written as an Idiot's guide to homemade fuel , And I am not insinuating that anyone who struggles with it is an idiot either. It is not a trivial thing. The JtoF site rocks! Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I for one am grateful for all of the information JTF is providing us FREE OF CHARGE. It is so easy to be critical and it takes a little effort and perhaps you might have to massage a few brain cells in order to appreciate everything JTF is giving us here. I don't have any problems following the instruction. Thanks Kieth for a wonderful web site... Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rodgers Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 12:07 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Purity of KOH Hi everyone My wife and I worked on titration until pretty late last night, ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Purity of KOH
Your suggestion sounds great, however I have no idea how to do that. I have Lye and PH papers and Phenolphthalein, can I use these items to check it? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Appal Energy Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 9:36 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Purity of KOH Most KOH is in the proximity of 90-92%. The suggestion would be to titrate, adjust for approximately a 10% purity loss, then conduct a bracket titration to see how close your calculations are to reality. Use the process as a calibration for the balance of the bag's contents. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a 50# bag of KOH and have no idea what the purity is. Is there any way to tell how much of this KOH to use or what the purity is? I get a really good buy on it from a local soap making company. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Purity of KOH
See Basic Titration at http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#titrate See Better Titration at http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#titrate See More About Lye (and KOH) at http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye and in general see http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html and http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html Your suggestion sounds great, however I have no idea how to do that. I have Lye and PH papers and Phenolphthalein, can I use these items to check it? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Appal Energy Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 9:36 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Purity of KOH Most KOH is in the proximity of 90-92%. The suggestion would be to titrate, adjust for approximately a 10% purity loss, then conduct a bracket titration to see how close your calculations are to reality. Use the process as a calibration for the balance of the bag's contents. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a 50# bag of KOH and have no idea what the purity is. Is there any way to tell how much of this KOH to use or what the purity is? I get a really good buy on it from a local soap making company. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Purity of KOH
Hi everyone My wife and I worked on titration until pretty late last night, at least late for me. I am a morning person and I pruned and thinned a massive area of Piñon Cedar wood and then loaded it prior to beginning our first titration of WVO. I say this because I'd rather not have people telling me I am not tip-top with my labwork. Tired is all. Anyway, yesterday evening we finally had all of the equipment and chemicals in place. Saturday morning, I did some test runs using the TI-83 Vernier LabPro Data logger. It is the Vernier Data Logger that is the most useful of the two for our needs. It has a USB interface and the data logger software was easy enough to figure out. I started out with the stainless-steel temperature sensor as we have a decent thermometer to check against. Very nice readout on the screen and easy to understand. I then removed the pH sensor from its soaking bath bottle. We set it in tap water first and got a pH reading of 7.5, rinsed it in distilled water and gently cleaned it with a paper towel, next dipping the sensor end in fresh distilled water, pH 7. With readings of that which we could expect, we then moved on to basic titration. If you all will bear with me a moment, I do have some questions. I will intertwine my questions right into the JtF web site directions for basic titration. Our hope is to clarify these directions for ourselves and for other newbies as well. We believe that there are several statements found here and in the email list which are contradictory at best. Basic titration An electronic pH meter is best, but you can also use pH test strips (or litmus paper), or phenolphthalein solution (from a chemicals supplier). I suggest sorting the test equipment according to preference. We were ridiculed for using litmus paper. Why list it second if it is preferred as a third choice? Phenolphthalein sounds very interesting. Why not give more information on the setup and use of this test? Yes we followed the links. Dissolve 1 gram of lye in 1 liter of distilled or de-ionized water (0.1% w/v lye solution). Here, according to JtF, we are in the absolute most important first step Titration, which a newbie is going to perform! Standard procedure in all technical writing as far as I am aware it to define all abbreviations Why throw out a statement like: (0.1% w/v lye solution) and not simply define (w/v?) This is making an already completely new process unnecessarily cloudy in the mind of the newbies. Ok, this is the second sentence in a half page description of how to do the most important step in making biodiesel. In a smaller beaker, dissolve 1 ml of dewatered WVO oil in 10 ml of pure isopropyl alcohol. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and the mixture turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Smaller beaker than what? WVO oil is redundant. Again, if the pH Meter is the best tool and listed first in the sentence above, why are we jumping back to phenolphthalein? If this is the preferred test, why not say so in the first sentence? Using a graduated syringe, add the 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time. It might turn a bit cloudy, keep stirring. Keep on carefully adding the lye solution until the solution stays pink (actually magenta) for 15 seconds. See above. We are using a continuous readout pH meter. What is the pH we are looking for here! Yes Keith, layered information is great, but why push it when it is unnecessary? We are jumping all over the place in order to do one simple step. Different methods are combined in the same paragraph. This could be the reason newbies are confused. Take the number of milliliters of 0.1% lye solution you used and add 3.5 (the basic amount of lye needed for virgin oil). This is the number of grams of lye you'll need per liter of oil. Sheesh, I am sorry, but I have a question about every sentence in this basic titration. Take the number of milliliters of 0.1% lye solution you used and add 3.5 ?? This is sloppy writing. Are you saying add a number of milliliters to 3.5 grams? If it took 1.6 mL of lye solution then are we supposed to add 1.6 g to 3.5 g? I don't think so. How about a formula here? It would be clearer if you stated all of the proper terms, weight, volume, etc. No wonder so many questions appear on the email list about titration. With a pH meter or test strips, use the same procedure without adding the phenolphthalein. Add the 0.1% lye solution drop by drop as before until the pH reaches 8.5. Duh! Why not just add this value to the sentence above to aid the newbies who are learning the procedure and keep them from jumping around. Also, please be consistent with the numbers throughout the directions. A pH of 8.5 is mentioned and then a pH of 8-9 is mentioned. This leads one to believe it does not really need to be exact. I know it is difficult for many folks to take
Re: [Biofuel] Purity of KOH
I for one am grateful for all of the information JTF is providing us FREE OF CHARGE. It is so easy to be critical and it takes a little effort and perhaps you might have to massage a few brain cells in order to appreciate everything JTF is giving us here. I don't have any problems following the instruction. Thanks Kieth for a wonderful web site... Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rodgers Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 12:07 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Purity of KOH Hi everyone My wife and I worked on titration until pretty late last night, at least late for me. I am a morning person and I pruned and thinned a massive area of Piñon Cedar wood and then loaded it prior to beginning our first titration of WVO. I say this because I'd rather not have people telling me I am not tip-top with my labwork. Tired is all. Anyway, yesterday evening we finally had all of the equipment and chemicals in place. Saturday morning, I did some test runs using the TI-83 Vernier LabPro Data logger. It is the Vernier Data Logger that is the most useful of the two for our needs. It has a USB interface and the data logger software was easy enough to figure out. I started out with the stainless-steel temperature sensor as we have a decent thermometer to check against. Very nice readout on the screen and easy to understand. I then removed the pH sensor from its soaking bath bottle. We set it in tap water first and got a pH reading of 7.5, rinsed it in distilled water and gently cleaned it with a paper towel, next dipping the sensor end in fresh distilled water, pH 7. With readings of that which we could expect, we then moved on to basic titration. If you all will bear with me a moment, I do have some questions. I will intertwine my questions right into the JtF web site directions for basic titration. Our hope is to clarify these directions for ourselves and for other newbies as well. We believe that there are several statements found here and in the email list which are contradictory at best. Basic titration An electronic pH meter is best, but you can also use pH test strips (or litmus paper), or phenolphthalein solution (from a chemicals supplier). I suggest sorting the test equipment according to preference. We were ridiculed for using litmus paper. Why list it second if it is preferred as a third choice? Phenolphthalein sounds very interesting. Why not give more information on the setup and use of this test? Yes we followed the links. Dissolve 1 gram of lye in 1 liter of distilled or de-ionized water (0.1% w/v lye solution). Here, according to JtF, we are in the absolute most important first step Titration, which a newbie is going to perform! Standard procedure in all technical writing as far as I am aware it to define all abbreviations Why throw out a statement like: (0.1% w/v lye solution) and not simply define (w/v?) This is making an already completely new process unnecessarily cloudy in the mind of the newbies. Ok, this is the second sentence in a half page description of how to do the most important step in making biodiesel. In a smaller beaker, dissolve 1 ml of dewatered WVO oil in 10 ml of pure isopropyl alcohol. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and the mixture turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Smaller beaker than what? WVO oil is redundant. Again, if the pH Meter is the best tool and listed first in the sentence above, why are we jumping back to phenolphthalein? If this is the preferred test, why not say so in the first sentence? Using a graduated syringe, add the 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time. It might turn a bit cloudy, keep stirring. Keep on carefully adding the lye solution until the solution stays pink (actually magenta) for 15 seconds. See above. We are using a continuous readout pH meter. What is the pH we are looking for here! Yes Keith, layered information is great, but why push it when it is unnecessary? We are jumping all over the place in order to do one simple step. Different methods are combined in the same paragraph. This could be the reason newbies are confused. Take the number of milliliters of 0.1% lye solution you used and add 3.5 (the basic amount of lye needed for virgin oil). This is the number of grams of lye you'll need per liter of oil. Sheesh, I am sorry, but I have a question about every sentence in this basic titration. Take the number of milliliters of 0.1% lye solution you used and add 3.5 ?? This is sloppy writing. Are you saying add a number of milliliters to 3.5 grams? If it took 1.6 mL of lye solution then are we supposed to add 1.6 g to 3.5 g? I don't think so. How about a formula here? It would be clearer if you stated all of the proper terms, weight, volume, etc. No wonder so many
Re: [Biofuel] Purity of KOH
I for one am grateful for all of the information JTF is providing us FREE OF CHARGE. It is so easy to be critical and it takes a little effort and perhaps you might have to massage a few brain cells in order to appreciate everything JTF is giving us here. I don't have any problems following the instruction. Thanks Kieth for a wonderful web site... Rob Why thankyou Rob, you made my day (and I was just thinking it got spoiled...). :-) Best wishes Keith -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rodgers Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 12:07 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Purity of KOH Hi everyone My wife and I worked on titration until pretty late last night, at least late for me. I am a morning person and I pruned and thinned a snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Purity of KOH
Brian, Sorry about your difficulties but I really do not agree with your assessment of JtF and the fine resource it offers. Last July I was just as Newbie as it gets and after I had my first crashes I started to pay attention to what I read. If I could not get what was presented I researched it a bit and it came clear. (requires work) As I look back I really can't imagine how I would have learned it if it wasn't for JtF. If you really want to learn this; become the student not the teacher. Before you can lead men you must learn to follow. Sorry but I truly think your statement here is unfair and unwarranted criticism of JtF. If you find JtF so clumsy try some of the other sites. As for me I think JtF is the one that offers exceptional help and it is also well put together professionally. Wisdom Jim Brian Rodgers wrote: Hi everyone My wife and I worked on titration until pretty late last night, at least late for me. I am a morning person and I pruned and thinned a massive area of Piñon Cedar wood and then loaded it prior to beginning our first titration of WVO. I say this because I'd rather not have people telling me I am not tip-top with my labwork. Tired is all. Anyway, yesterday evening we finally had all of the equipment and chemicals in place. Saturday morning, I did some test runs using the TI-83 Vernier LabPro Data logger. It is the Vernier Data Logger that is the most useful of the two for our needs. It has a USB interface and the data logger software was easy enough to figure out. I started out with the stainless-steel temperature sensor as we have a decent thermometer to check against. Very nice readout on the screen and easy to understand. I then removed the pH sensor from its soaking bath bottle. We set it in tap water first and got a pH reading of 7.5, rinsed it in distilled water and gently cleaned it with a paper towel, next dipping the sensor end in fresh distilled water, pH 7. With readings of that which we could expect, we then moved on to basic titration. If you all will bear with me a moment, I do have some questions. I will intertwine my questions right into the JtF web site directions for basic titration. Our hope is to clarify these directions for ourselves and for other newbies as well. We believe that there are several statements found here and in the email list which are contradictory at best. Basic titration An electronic pH meter is best, but you can also use pH test strips (or litmus paper), or phenolphthalein solution (from a chemicals supplier). I suggest sorting the test equipment according to preference. We were ridiculed for using litmus paper. Why list it second if it is preferred as a third choice? Phenolphthalein sounds very interesting. Why not give more information on the setup and use of this test? Yes we followed the links. Dissolve 1 gram of lye in 1 liter of distilled or de-ionized water (0.1% w/v lye solution). Here, according to JtF, we are in the absolute most important first step Titration, which a newbie is going to perform! Standard procedure in all technical writing as far as I am aware it to define all abbreviations Why throw out a statement like: (0.1% w/v lye solution) and not simply define (w/v?) This is making an already completely new process unnecessarily cloudy in the mind of the newbies. Ok, this is the second sentence in a half page description of how to do the most important step in making biodiesel. In a smaller beaker, dissolve 1 ml of dewatered WVO oil in 10 ml of pure isopropyl alcohol. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and the mixture turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Smaller beaker than what? WVO oil is redundant. Again, if the pH Meter is the best tool and listed first in the sentence above, why are we jumping back to phenolphthalein? If this is the preferred test, why not say so in the first sentence? Using a graduated syringe, add the 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time. It might turn a bit cloudy, keep stirring. Keep on carefully adding the lye solution until the solution stays pink (actually magenta) for 15 seconds. See above. We are using a continuous readout pH meter. What is the pH we are looking for here! Yes Keith, layered information is great, but why push it when it is unnecessary? We are jumping all over the place in order to do one simple step. Different methods are combined in the same paragraph. This could be the reason newbies are confused. Take the number of milliliters of 0.1% lye solution you used and add 3.5 (the basic amount of lye needed for virgin oil). This is the number of grams of lye you'll need per liter of oil. Sheesh, I am sorry, but I have a question about every sentence in this basic titration. Take the number of milliliters of 0.1% lye solution you used and add 3.5 ?? This is sloppy writing. Are you saying add a number of
Re: [Biofuel] Purity of KOH
Just started this weekend. HEY, Thanks Keith and Everybody! Good night Good weekend. Gary - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Purity of KOH I for one am grateful for all of the information JTF is providing us FREE OF CHARGE. It is so easy to be critical and it takes a little effort and perhaps you might have to massage a few brain cells in order to appreciate everything JTF is giving us here. I don't have any problems following the instruction. Thanks Kieth for a wonderful web site... Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rodgers Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 12:07 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Purity of KOH Hi everyone My wife and I worked on titration until pretty late last night, at least late for me. I am a morning person and I pruned and thinned a massive area of Piñon Cedar wood and then loaded it prior to beginning our first titration of WVO. I say this because I'd rather not have people telling me I am not tip-top with my labwork. Tired is all. Anyway, yesterday evening we finally had all of the equipment and chemicals in place. Saturday morning, I did some test runs using the TI-83 Vernier LabPro Data logger. It is the Vernier Data Logger that is the most useful of the two for our needs. It has a USB interface and the data logger software was easy enough to figure out. I started out with the stainless-steel temperature sensor as we have a decent thermometer to check against. Very nice readout on the screen and easy to understand. I then removed the pH sensor from its soaking bath bottle. We set it in tap water first and got a pH reading of 7.5, rinsed it in distilled water and gently cleaned it with a paper towel, next dipping the sensor end in fresh distilled water, pH 7. With readings of that which we could expect, we then moved on to basic titration. If you all will bear with me a moment, I do have some questions. I will intertwine my questions right into the JtF web site directions for basic titration. Our hope is to clarify these directions for ourselves and for other newbies as well. We believe that there are several statements found here and in the email list which are contradictory at best. Basic titration An electronic pH meter is best, but you can also use pH test strips (or litmus paper), or phenolphthalein solution (from a chemicals supplier). I suggest sorting the test equipment according to preference. We were ridiculed for using litmus paper. Why list it second if it is preferred as a third choice? Phenolphthalein sounds very interesting. Why not give more information on the setup and use of this test? Yes we followed the links. Dissolve 1 gram of lye in 1 liter of distilled or de-ionized water (0.1% w/v lye solution). Here, according to JtF, we are in the absolute most important first step Titration, which a newbie is going to perform! Standard procedure in all technical writing as far as I am aware it to define all abbreviations Why throw out a statement like: (0.1% w/v lye solution) and not simply define (w/v?) This is making an already completely new process unnecessarily cloudy in the mind of the newbies. Ok, this is the second sentence in a half page description of how to do the most important step in making biodiesel. In a smaller beaker, dissolve 1 ml of dewatered WVO oil in 10 ml of pure isopropyl alcohol. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and the mixture turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Smaller beaker than what? WVO oil is redundant. Again, if the pH Meter is the best tool and listed first in the sentence above, why are we jumping back to phenolphthalein? If this is the preferred test, why not say so in the first sentence? Using a graduated syringe, add the 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time. It might turn a bit cloudy, keep stirring. Keep on carefully adding the lye solution until the solution stays pink (actually magenta) for 15 seconds. See above. We are using a continuous readout pH meter. What is the pH we are looking for here! Yes Keith, layered information is great, but why push it when it is unnecessary? We are jumping all over the place in order to do one simple step. Different methods are combined in the same paragraph. This could be the reason newbies are confused. Take the number of milliliters of 0.1% lye solution you used and add 3.5 (the basic amount of lye needed for virgin oil). This is the number of grams of lye you'll need per liter of oil. Sheesh, I am sorry, but I have a question about every sentence in this basic titration. Take the number of milliliters of 0.1% lye solution you used and add 3.5 ?? This is sloppy writing. Are you saying add
[Biofuel] Purity of KOH
I have a 50# bag of KOH and have no idea what the purity is. Is there any way to tell how much of this KOH to use or what the purity is? I get a really good buy on it from a local soap making company. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Purity of KOH
Most KOH is in the proximity of 90-92%. The suggestion would be to titrate, adjust for approximately a 10% purity loss, then conduct a bracket titration to see how close your calculations are to reality. Use the process as a calibration for the balance of the bag's contents. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a 50# bag of KOH and have no idea what the purity is. Is there any way to tell how much of this KOH to use or what the purity is? I get a really good buy on it from a local soap making company. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
