Re: [Tagging] Produce tags for orchards

[shane teonanacatl]

example: when you have cork oak, they produce cork and nuts for pigs (pata negra and so on) - but when only a tourist visit the area he cant decide what the farmer is earning: cork, nuts, cork and nuts or nothing (not used).

 

 

Gesendet: Freitag, 28. Juli 2017 um 16:31 Uhr
Von: "Paul Desgranges" 
An: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" , daveswarth...@gmail.com
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Produce tags for orchards



Hello 

Orchards contain trees and this is what can be seen on landscape, if you do a survey. 

 
From trees you can get some fruits, but it is once in a while, the crop is only once per year, and only if you get lucky, some years there is nothing, depending on wheather conditions. 

 

Therefore the tag 'trees' seems better to me. 

 

The farm produces something, and the tag 'produce' seems better (to me) for a farm than for an 'orchard'. 

 

 

 
 

 
Le 28 juil. 2017 1:44 AM, "Dave Swarthout"  a écrit :




Agree with Warin, who wrote:

 
Looking at the wider application to farmland leads to things like potatoes, these are not trees.
The  use of the tag tree for things like strawberry plants is not good. They are NOT trees!
Other plants, such as 'shrubs' too are being tagged as 'trees' too.
Personally I prefer the key 'produce' as it does mean what leaves the farm (or orchard).
These is also no problem with produce such as milk - tree=milk or crop=milk make no sense.
Then there are palm trees that produce dates ...
 
+1   


If you want to keep it simple .. I think 'produce' is best.




 
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 3:12 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 28-Jul-17 07:05 AM, Christoph Hormann wrote:

On Thursday 27 July 2017, Tobias Zwick wrote:

Together with Roland Krüger, I am in the process of letting users of
StreetComplete, a surveyor app for OpenStreetMap, specify the produce
of orchards.[1]
We did a lot of research on which plants are grown on orchards [2]
and are now at the point where we need to decide how these should be
tagged.

Unfortunately, there are *three* competing keys to describe basically
the same things (for orchards). Neither of these is deprecated, all
are in use: trees, crop and produce.
 Taginfo is your friend to find out what tags are most commonly used.
 
The frequency of use can be influenced by;

the date of the tags creation - the earlier a tag is created the more use it can have over a 'better' tag created later

the pre-sets of editors - these can be the opinion of one person.

I would not place too much importance on the amount of use by itself.

 


Safe to say that trees=* is the dominating method to tag what is grown
in an orchard.
 

Looking at the wider application to farmland leads to things like potatoes, these are not trees.

The  use of the tag tree for things like strawberry plants is not good. They are NOT trees!

Other plants, such as 'shrubs' too are being tagged as 'trees' too.

Personally I prefer the key 'produce' as it does mean what leaves the farm (or orchard).
These is also no problem with produce such as milk - tree=milk or crop=milk make no sense.
Then there are palm trees that produce dates ...

If you want to keep it simple .. I think 'produce' is best.




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Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com

 

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Re: [Tagging] Names containing abbreviations that are the official name

[Kevin Kenny]

On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Tom Pfeifer  wrote:
> I agree that tagging pronunciation is a good thing for unusual situations,
> and the examples that were cited before already use the IPA [1], which would
> be my recommendation as well.
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet

I quite agree!

Locally, I'd use it because we have quite a lot of place names whose
local pronunciation is not what you'd expect. Edinburg, New York, has
its 'g'; 'Cairo' is /ˈkʰeɪ̯.ɹoʊ̯/; 'Berlin;' is /ˈbəːɹ.ɫᵻn/ (or
perhaps/ˈbɜːɹ.ɫᵻn/,
the local dialect has the fir-fur-fern merger. 'Heard' and 'herd' are
pronounced alike); Delhi is /'dʰɛɫˌhäɪ̯/ (nearer a spondee than a trochee).

It might be wise to permit Kirshenbaum[1] or X-SAMPA[2] as alternatives
(I'd favour the latter, since I know of existing TTS systems that can deal with
it.) IPA can be an issue for the keyboard-challenged. That said, I'd be
satisfied if front-end programs like JOSM would be able to accept
X-SAMPA from the keyboard but store and display the IPA for it.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirshenbaum
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-SAMPA

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Re: [Tagging] Produce tags for orchards

[Paul Desgranges]

Hello
Orchards contain trees and this is what can be seen on landscape, if you do
a survey.

>From trees you can get some fruits, but it is once in a while, the crop is
only once per year, and only if you get lucky, some years there is nothing,
depending on wheather conditions.

Therefore the tag 'trees' seems better to me.

The farm produces something, and the tag 'produce' seems better (to me) for
a farm than for an 'orchard'.





Le 28 juil. 2017 1:44 AM, "Dave Swarthout"  a
écrit :

Agree with Warin, who wrote:

Looking at the wider application to farmland leads to things like potatoes,
these are not trees.
The  use of the tag tree for things like strawberry plants is not good.
They are NOT trees!
Other plants, such as 'shrubs' too are being tagged as 'trees' too.
Personally I prefer the key 'produce' as it does mean what leaves the farm
(or orchard).
These is also no problem with produce such as milk - tree=milk or crop=milk
make no sense.
Then there are palm trees that produce dates ...

+1
If you want to keep it simple .. I think 'produce' is best.

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 3:12 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 28-Jul-17 07:05 AM, Christoph Hormann wrote:
>
>> On Thursday 27 July 2017, Tobias Zwick wrote:
>>
>>> Together with Roland Krüger, I am in the process of letting users of
>>> StreetComplete, a surveyor app for OpenStreetMap, specify the produce
>>> of orchards.[1]
>>> We did a lot of research on which plants are grown on orchards [2]
>>> and are now at the point where we need to decide how these should be
>>> tagged.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, there are *three* competing keys to describe basically
>>> the same things (for orchards). Neither of these is deprecated, all
>>> are in use: trees, crop and produce.
>>>
>> Taginfo is your friend to find out what tags are most commonly used.
>>
>
> The frequency of use can be influenced by;
>
> the date of the tags creation - the earlier a tag is created the more use
> it can have over a 'better' tag created later
>
> the pre-sets of editors - these can be the opinion of one person.
>
> I would not place too much importance on the amount of use by itself.
>
>
>
>>
>> Safe to say that trees=* is the dominating method to tag what is grown
>> in an orchard.
>>
>
>
> Looking at the wider application to farmland leads to things like
> potatoes, these are not trees.
>
> The  use of the tag tree for things like strawberry plants is not good.
> They are NOT trees!
>
> Other plants, such as 'shrubs' too are being tagged as 'trees' too.
>
> Personally I prefer the key 'produce' as it does mean what leaves the farm
> (or orchard).
> These is also no problem with produce such as milk - tree=milk or
> crop=milk make no sense.
> Then there are palm trees that produce dates ...
>
> If you want to keep it simple .. I think 'produce' is best.
>
>
>
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-- 
Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com

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Re: [Tagging] Names containing abbreviations that are the official name

[Tom Pfeifer]

On 28.07.2017 11:39, Adam Snape wrote:

On 27 July 2017 at 21:20, Tom Pfeifer > wrot


There are pronunciation dictionaries for different languages, which are not 
thicker than
spelling dictionaries. In electronic form they would measure in kilobytes, 
and be included in
the dozens of megabytes a TTS engine comes with, for each language module. 
So the correct
spelling of common geonames as Edinburgh should be an easy exercise


  I was just using Edinburgh as an example most English speakers are familiar with. Whilst I would 
expect software to be familiar with major cities like Edinburgh it is much more unlikely to be able 
to deal with the pronunciation of all the smaller named objects in OSM. A means of tagging 
pronunciation, where this is not obvious from the spelling would be a useful addition to osm.


I was just bashing commercial TTS for their ignorance.

I agree that tagging pronunciation is a good thing for unusual situations, and the examples that 
were cited before already use the IPA [1], which would be my recommendation as well.


tom

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet

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Re: [Tagging] fire hydrants

[Viking]

Hello.
After two weeks on holiday, I'm back to discuss on fire hydrants proposal.
I've updated the page [1] according to last comments about 
fire_hydrant:couplings_type and fire_hydrant:couplings_size.
If you think it's ok, I will go on putting it on vote.
Best regards
Alberto

[1] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Fire_Hydrant_Extensions



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Re: [Tagging] Names containing abbreviations that are the official name

[Adam Snape]

On 27 July 2017 at 21:20, Tom Pfeifer  wrot
>
>
> There are pronunciation dictionaries for different languages, which are
> not thicker than spelling dictionaries. In electronic form they would
> measure in kilobytes, and be included in the dozens of megabytes a TTS
> engine comes with, for each language module. So the correct spelling of
> common geonames as Edinburgh should be an easy exercise
>

 I was just using Edinburgh as an example most English speakers are
familiar with. Whilst I would expect software to be familiar with major
cities like Edinburgh it is much more unlikely to be able to deal with the
pronunciation of all the smaller named objects in OSM. A means of tagging
pronunciation, where this is not obvious from the spelling would be a
useful addition to osm.
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Re: [Tagging] lamp_type: sodium or sodium_vapor?

[Michal Fabík]

On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 3:14 AM, Dave Swarthout  wrote:
> Therefore I'd vote for lamp_type=sodium_vapor (or mercury_vapor)

Hi,
it's "vapour" in British English (what OSM uses).

Regards,

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