Re: [OSM-talk] Survey about OSM communication behaviors

[Allan Mustard]

In the 2021 community survey, which used Limesurvey as the platform, 
respondents came from 121 countries.[1] The countries with apparent 
access to Limesurvey included China (24 respondents out of those who 
included demographic data), Iran (16), Somalia (2), and South Sudan (2).


cheers,
apm

[1] 
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/File:2021_OSMF_survey_country_respondents.ods



Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2023 23:16:05 +0100
From: Andy Townsend
To:talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Survey about OSM communication behaviors
Message-ID:<647cf4a6-de0a-34ac-2d7a-980e65c0c...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

On 28/04/2023 22:50, Allan Mustard wrote:

Rather than criticize the CWG for using Google because certain people
are restricted by their governments from using Google services, it
would be more useful to suggest alternatives that might work in those
countries.

Mikel already mentioned that OSMF had used Limesurvey earlier; that was
also what the DWG used when we last ran a survey a while back, and what
the organisers of this survey have suggested they will use it too (in
various of the other channels that it has been announced).? I don't have
up to date info on where that might be blocked, but at least a couple of
the channels in which this survey has been announced have contributors
who may have more up to date info on whether something is reachable or
not - from both of the countries you mentioned.**

Best Regards,

Andy

** I'm not being more specific because I don't want to advertise an
activity that might be "frowned upon" in a particular country, or which
particular OSM channel people doing that might be found in.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey about OSM communication behaviors

[Allan Mustard]

Not to make too fine a point, but OSMF policy notwithstanding, the OSMF 
Board of Directors uses Google Mail, the OSMF participates in Google 
Summer of Code, and Google was a sponsor of SOTM 2022 in Florence.[1]


As for foreign governments restricting access to Google assets, correct 
me if I am wrong but this mainly affects China and Iran, and probably a 
few other totalitarian regimes (e.g., North Korea?), but not the vast 
majority of OSM project participants. Rather than criticize the CWG for 
using Google because certain people are restricted by their governments 
from using Google services, it would be more useful to suggest 
alternatives that might work in those countries.


My two manats' worth (having served 4-1/2 years as a diplomat in a 
totalitarian country that restricts access to 3/4 of the world's IP 
addresses).


cheers,
apm

[1] https://2022.stateofthemap.org/#sponsors



Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2023 16:03:49 +0100
From: Andy Townsend
To: S?ren Reinecke
Cc:talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Survey about OSM communication behaviors
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

On 28/04/2023 15:47, S?ren Reinecke wrote:

So please stop complaining about when someone does not share your ideologic 
attitude. And wanting to use OSS only is a ideology.

In this case, it's not just my view, it's the view of the OSMF board:

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Commitment_to_Open_Communication_Channels

I have nothing against Google per se (casual observers will note that
I'm posting this from a Gmail address), but we have to allow everyone to
access a survey like this - including those people who are restricted by
their government from using services such as Google's.



In this case privacy is not even a concern. So please stop polluting email 
threads with unnecessary replies.



Best Regards,

Andy
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Re: [OSM-talk] Should we be mapping transformers and powerlines?

[Allan Mustard]

Obscurity won't stop terrorists, so we might as well map them. It will 
make it easier for law enforcement to find them, too.


As an aside, the last couple of months I noticed somebody in 
Turkmenistan had added a number of "banks" and "bars" in Ashgabat, using 
MAPS.ME, with very strange, un-banklike, un-barlike names. Upon 
investigation I found they were electrical substations. Since MAPS.ME 
has no "substation" node preset, this mapper (possibly and in fact most 
probably an employee of Turkmen Energo) was mapping substations and 
annotating them on his smartphone as "banks" or "bars". I had a merry 
afternoon of cleanup in December and another this month.


cheers,
apm


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[OSM-talk] List moderators now on forum as well

[Allan Mustard]

Kind folks,

Please be aware that in response to the forum moderators' request, the 
five moderators [1] appointed to moderate the talk and osmf-talk lists 
have also agreed to moderate the "general", "tagging", and "foundation" 
topics on the OSM forum located at community.openstreetmap.org. The same 
rules of etiquette [2] and process of moderation [3] will be applied.


Best wishes and happy holidays to all!
Allan Mustard

[1] 
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Moderation_team_for_talk_and_osmf-talk_mailing_lists

[2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Etiquette
[3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Etiquette/Process_for_Moderation___
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[OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Call to Take Action and Confront Systemic Offensive Behavior in the OSM Community

[Allan Mustard]

I apologize if this is a duplicate, but I received notices from Google
Mail that the message below sent to both osmf-talk and talk was not
delivered "because the address couldn't be found, or is unable to
receive mail."  I am therefore retransmitting the message using my home
email address.  apm

To the OSM and OSMF communities:

I convey the following information on behalf of the Board of
Directors of the OpenStreetMap Foundation.

An outcome of the current controversy on the osmf-talk mailing list
over misogynistic language is a decision by the Board as follows:

> The Board will find partners to help instate a moderator team for
> the OSMF-talk and talk mailing lists. These moderators need to
> have the trust of the community subject to the moderation (consent
> of the governed) by some kind of approval mechanism. This
> moderator team will start to work on enforcing the current
> Etiquette guidelines as soon as possible. We will also start work
> on updating/replacing our Etiquette rules, which must focus on
> balancing all participants' interests.

We have asked the Local Chapters and Communities Working Group
(LCCWG ) to take the lead on this and to work with signatories of
the open letter to the Board [1] as well as members of the Diversity
and Inclusion Special Committee to produce proposals for the Board
to consider at its January meeting.  The LCCWG has accepted this
task.  This issue will be on the agenda of the January meeting of
the Board of Directors, exact time and date yet to be determined,
though as is customary it will be posted to the Foundation's website
well in advance.

Members of the OSM community are, as always, welcome to share their
opinions and any relevant information on this matter, either
publicly via osmf-talk, or privately in direct communications to the
LCCWG.  I feel compelled to remind all members of the community that
a Code of Etiquette [2] has existed since June 2011 and shall be
observed by all community members.

Very best  regards to all,
apm

[1]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit?ts=5fd11436#heading=h.ccgtgjykcfgh

<https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit?ts=5fd11436#heading=h.ccgtgjykcfgh>
[2] https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Etiquette
<https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Etiquette>

---
/Allan Mustard, Chairperson/
/Board of Directors/
/OpenStreetMap Foundation/

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Re: [OSM-talk] our Q site help.openstreetmap.org is dying

[Allan Mustard]

Hi, Simon,

Bearing in mind Mateusz's admonition, "Wait for someone to volunteer and
fix? It would be nice, but not sure what are chances of that," perhaps
we have reached the outer limits of what the do-ocracy can accomplish in
this case.

TomH suggests migrating to StackExchange and says it's a process he's
familiar with.  It's beyond my technical knowledge so I cannot really
comment.  Presumably we would have to pay someone to handle the
migration.  I have no idea what the volume of work would be or how much
it would cost.

Your suggestion is, "...the askbot fork of QSQA, the software running on
the help site, is not hyperactive but not totally dead either and I
should note that the software stack it uses isn't particularly exotic
either. There is no reason to believe that we couldn't migrate to that
and get some support from the developer (for money obviously). It would
make a lot more sense than any other alternative outside of shutting the
whole thing down (which would be the OSM way)."

This all implies the Board needs to provide funds for a solution, but
first a solution must be decided on.  If there is not, as you wrote,
"...any group that has a more holistic view of the software side of
things and is actually willing to go through the gyrations of producing
a budget and then spending the money..." once a solution is selected,
the Board would then need to find someone to analyze it, cost it out,
submit a budget proposal, and then implement it (someone reliable, who
could be trusted to do the actual work). 

Any suggestions?  Brainstorming ideas?  Who could do any of the above,
and how much would it cost?  Are there OSM-savvy firms out there with
programming expertise, familiar with the underlying software, who could
respond to an RFP?

cheers,
apm

On 5/22/2020 6:49 AM, talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote:
> Send talk mailing list submissions to
>   talk@openstreetmap.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>   https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>   talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>   talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: talk Digest, Vol 189, Issue 24 (Simon Poole)
>2. mspray stealth organized mapping (Jean-Marc Liotier)
>3. Re: mspray stealth organized mapping (Phil Wyatt)
>4. Re: mspray stealth organized mapping (Mikel Maron)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 22:43:55 +0200
> From: Simon Poole 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 189, Issue 24
> Message-ID: <3ce09729-45db-b314-b61d-02045a533...@poole.ch>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="cp1251"
>
> Hi Allan
>
> The question is which WG would that be? Sad to say but I don't believe
> there is any group that has a more holistic view of the software side of
> things and is actually willing to go through the gyrations of producing
> a budget and then spending the money (just see the osmosis near
> debacle), maybe way back it was the EWG, but that was more than a decade
> ago.
>
> Back to the specifics: the askbot fork of QSQA, the software running on
> the help site, is not hyperactive but not totally dead either and I
> should note that the software stack it uses isn't particularly exotic
> either. There is no reason to believe that we couldn't migrate to that
> and get some support from the developer (for money obviously). It would
> make a lot more sense than any other alternative outside of shutting the
> whole thing down (which would be the OSM way).
>
> Simon
>
> Am 20.05.2020 um 23:17 schrieb Allan Mustard:
>> Simon, et al, if money is required from the OSMF, could not one of the
>> working groups submit a funding request for migration to a new
>> platform like StackExchange?  Microgrant is probably not appropriate
>> for something like this.  Just my two cents' worth.
>>
>> apm
>>
>> On 5/20/2020 4:42 PM, talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote:
>>> Send talk mailing list submissions to
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>>>
>>> When replyin

Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 189, Issue 24

[Allan Mustard]

Simon, et al, if money is required from the OSMF, could not one of the
working groups submit a funding request for migration to a new platform
like StackExchange?  Microgrant is probably not appropriate for
something like this.  Just my two cents' worth.

apm

On 5/20/2020 4:42 PM, talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote:
> Send talk mailing list submissions to
>   talk@openstreetmap.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>   https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>   talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>   talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: our Q site help.openstreetmap.org is dying
>   (Mateusz Konieczny)
>2. Re: our Q site help.openstreetmap.org is dying (Tom Hughes)
>3. Re: our Q site help.openstreetmap.org is dying (Lester Caine)
>4. Re: our Q site help.openstreetmap.org is dying (Simon Poole)
>5. Re: our Q site help.openstreetmap.org is dying (Tobias Wrede)
>6. Re: our Q site help.openstreetmap.org is dying (Frederik Ramm)
>7. Re: our Q site help.openstreetmap.org is dying (Tobias Wrede)
>8. Re: our Q site help.openstreetmap.org is dying (James)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 15:48:27 +0200 (CEST)
> From: Mateusz Konieczny 
> To: Tobias Wrede 
> Cc: Talk 
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] our Q site help.openstreetmap.org is dying
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
>
> May 20, 2020, 09:28 by l...@tobias-wrede.de:
>
>> Can we involve any of the OSM organizations to find, maybe pay, someone? 
>>
> The question is about the plan. Life support for this specific platform?
>
> It sounds like an endless pit that can consume plenty of resources,
> but maybe I am too pessimistic.
>
> Migrate to Stack Exchange? Even assuming that this company will agree
> it has plenty of potential issues.
>
> Wait for someone to volunteer and fix? It would be nice, but not sure what
> are chances of that.
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 15:12:58 +0100
> From: Tom Hughes 
> To: Mateusz Konieczny , Tobias Wrede
>   
> Cc: Talk 
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] our Q site help.openstreetmap.org is dying
> Message-ID: <15f2bcdf-981f-19e7-224f-8b92f6574...@compton.nu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On 20/05/2020 14:48, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote:
>
>
>> Migrate to Stack Exchange? Even assuming that this company will agree
>> it has plenty of potential issues.
> They have a public process for proposing new sites:
>
>https://area51.stackexchange.com/faq
>
> So long as enough people are interested it shouldn't be an issue. I've
> been through the process with another site.
>
> Tom
>
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