Re: [TruthTalk] Obeying The Word with True LOVE
All glory goes to YHVH who has blessed me with such authority. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 09/18/2003 11:50 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Obeying The Word with True LOVE Chris, You should consider yourself to be the utmost authority on religious hypocrites. Iz -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris BarrSent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 9:09 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obeying The Word with True LOVE \o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings in the Matchless NameofYahShua!! Just following the example of The Saviour when He confronted religious hypocrites. They didn't like it any better then Jezebel Judy. Speaking of Jezebel ... "For without are DOGS, and sorcerers, and whoremonger, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." Ah, those who love and make lies like Jezebel Judy end up right where Jezebels always end up -- outside The City with the dogs. Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, Bro. Chris Barr a servant of YHVH - Original Message - From: "Jezebel Judith H. Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 09/17/2003 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obeying The Word with True LOVE "Chris Barr" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in The Holy Spirit, Keep yourselves in the love of The Almighty, looking for the mercy of our Adonay YahShua Messiah unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." Jude 20-23 Jezebel Judy responds: "Be ye DOERS of the Word and not hearers only deceiving your own selves" "Judge yourself, lest ye be judged" and "Owe no man anything, except to love him for love fulfills the law; when you judge/accuse the brethren you will reap what you sow because you judge the law rather than fulfilling it in your own life by walking in love and God's righteous judgment says that "every man will be rewarded for what he has done" God has sent the Spirit to convict the world of sin righteousness and the judgment to come. So beating them over the head with the Bible is not being a co- worker in His vineyard. Jesus our example only did what He first saw the Father doing. You are not waiting for the voice of the Shepherd because this is not His Way... and this lack of love and caring is why the Church is so divided. Please pray before you respond Chris -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] REPRIMAND: Obeying The Word with True LOVE
Chris We allow a lot of room here for you to make your case, but we do not allow ad hominem arguments. Stop with the Jezebel Judy stuff. If you want to make a point that you think Judy is acting like Jezebel mentioned in Scripture, that might be allowed if it is presented in a respectful way along with thought provoking evidence. However, you cannot put her on trial here, so that might limit what I just said. Also, you cannot fling out Jezebel Judy here like you have. You are casting aspersions and this does not help the discussion. You might consider that you are building up your own ego at Judys expense by such comments. In any case, whatever your motivations for such speech, we have one rule on TruthTalk, and that is no ad hominem attacks. Please try and write within that one guideline. If you disagree or think this is unjust, I invite you to discuss it with me privately at first and then on the TruthTalk forum after we have given it a shot privately first. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Barr Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 10:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obeying The Word with True LOVE \o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua !! Just following the example of The Saviour when He confronted religious hypocrites. They didn't like it any better then Jezebel Judy. Speaking of Jezebel ... For without are DOGS, and sorcerers, and whoremonger, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Ah, those who love and make lies like Jezebel Judy end up right where Jezebels always end up -- outside The City with the dogs. Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, Bro. Chris Barr a servant of YHVH - Original Message - From: Jezebel Judith H. Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 09/17/2003 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obeying The Word with True LOVE Chris Barr [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in The Holy Spirit, Keep yourselves in the love of The Almighty, looking for the mercy of our Adonay YahShua Messiah unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Jude 20-23 Jezebel Judy responds: Be ye DOERS of the Word and not hearers only deceiving your own selves Judge yourself, lest ye be judged and Owe no man anything, except to love him for love fulfills the law; when you judge/accuse the brethren you will reap what you sow because you judge the law rather than fulfilling it in your own life by walking in love and God's righteous judgment says that every man will be rewarded for what he has done God has sent the Spirit to convict the world of sin righteousness and the judgment to come. So beating them over the head with the Bible is not being a co- worker in His vineyard. Jesus our example only did what He first saw the Father doing. You are not waiting for the voice of the Shepherd because this is not His Way... and this lack of love and caring is why the Church is so divided. Please pray before you respond Chris -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] TruthTalkin' 'bout Torah walkin'
Hi Chris. Did someone on TruthTalk stiff you with a phone bill? Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question
I have to finally put my two cents in on this one. I cared for my former husband for several years after he was disabled. I wouldn't trade those years for anything. Now granted, he was able to communicate and take care of his basic needs but he had to use a wheelchair when we went out and could not take care of many of the things men handle like home and vehicle maintanence. I spent a lot of time having him "teach" me to do things LOL My point is that I believed that my marriage vows were in sickness and in health and held to that belief. I understand this man's dilema but he is not free to divorce and remarry as long as she is alive. I also believe that her fate is in God's hands and he should not tamper with that. Izzy compared her with an infant. Would we stop feeding our baby if it was the same situation? Just something to consider. Of course we cannot judge this man's motives but I wonder if he has made his decision based on fleshly desires or on what he truly believes God would have him do. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] TruthTalkin' 'bout Torah walkin'
Yes. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 09/19/2003 7:58 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] TruthTalkin' 'bout Torah walkin' Hi Chris. Did someone on TruthTalk stiff you with a phone bill? Peace be with you.David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
RE: [TruthTalk] Ethics question
Bruce, Bruce, Thank you for your thoughtful reply. You made some very valid points, which are quite true. But, now--what if the wife had a Living Will in which she had written that she did not want to be kept alive by artificial means if she was comatose? Would you then think it was right to keep her alive by feeding tube? What if the wife was young, and had not yet written a living will, but had communicated verbally to her husband the same desire? Should he not obey her wishes? How do you know that the person's soul has not already gone on to be with the Lord when they are comatose for a long time? You stated that you do not believe one should be kept alive by artificial means forever. So how long do you think they should be? Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Woodford Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 12:43 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Ethics question Izzy, You wrote:Okay, Bruce, we all know the pat, standard, rote, expected, programmed answers. I was hoping for a little thought on this subject. What if someone in a vegetative coma state is already with the Lord? Do you think the Lord expects to keep their body alive by artificial means forever? What if it was a young woman who desired children, and now can never have them, or experience the joy of a marriage? Does anything ever compel you to get inside someone else's frame of mind? As long as the vegetative person was well cared for, would God be so rigid and unfeeling that he would want the spouse to never be able to have a life? Does your God come in a pre-programmed box? .Nevermind. Izzy PS In case you think that I would be so callous as to remove the feeding tube from someone, let me remind you that I was married to someone in a very vegetative state for 25 years! Thank the Lord, He had mercy on my situation! ROFL!!! Dear Sister, Please forgive me for communicating that I'd given your question no thought! I certainly did, but you asked what God would require, and so I thought it best not to express opinions but to the the Holy Spirit of God speak to the situation through His own Word. But now you have asked some other questions: -What if someone in a vegetative coma state is already with the Lord? If one has departed, if the soul and spirit are separated from the body, the body is dead. There is no more need to care for such. Bury the body and the one who was formerly married to the departed one is free to marry another. Romans 7 is clear on that score. -Do you think the Lord expects to keep their body alive by artificial means forever? No I do not. -What if it was a young woman who desired children, and now can never have them, or experience the joy of a marriage? It is never God's desire that a young married woman whose husband is physically or mentally incapacitated should bear children by any other man while her husband is still living. Rather, in the midst of her deep trial, it IS his purpose to make Himself known to her in all of His sufficiency for her every need. -Does anything ever compel you to get inside someone else's frame of mind? Yes, when people share what is on their mind, I am often compelled to consider their perspective. Thank you for doing just that here! -As long as the vegetative person was well cared for, would God be so rigid and unfeeling that he would want the spouse to never be able to have a life? Dear Sister, If the incapacitated spouse is in need of being well cared for, they are still a spouse and their spouse is still married. God is never rigid and unfeeling!! The Lord Jesus was tempted in all pointas like as we are apart from sin and in that he himself suffered bneing tempted, He is able to succour (help) them that are tempted.But LIFE is never to be found in a spouse, in a happy marriage, in bearing children etc. If anyone enters a marriage relationship thinking that LIFE is found there, they are going to be sorely disillusioned! BUT, if they realize that LIFE is only found in Christ (I John 5:11,12), then regardless of their circumstances, good relationships or bad, smooth sailing or daily pain and aggravation...they can still experience a full, joyful and meaningful life by maintaining coomunion with and drawing their sustenance from their Lord! Your brother in Christ, Bruce _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let
RE: [TruthTalk] Ethics question
Laura, I agree with you completely. There is no greater love than to care for the helpless. That is why you cared so well for your disabled husband. (People who havent done what you do have no idea what a sacrifice and joy it is.)Thats why I am taking my Dad, who has Alzheimers, out for lunch and an outing todayeven knowing that he wont remember it for 5 minutes afterwards. But he enjoys it for the moment. And he still needs hugs and much love. But you state that, I also believe that her fate is in God's hands and he should not tamper with that. By forcing medical treatment upon her, you could certainly say that people are tampering. As I stated, I would have a problem with denying treatment to even someone who even has an infant mentality. However, the issue I wish to explore here is whether one is obligated to force a person who is comatose to remain alive by artificial medical intervention. I think that is as unethical as euthanasia; and I think the two issues are often blurred. In all honesty, I have compassion for this man and his wife, and her parents, too. But she is not comatose. So, I think it would be like killing an infant to deny treatment. I think we should all constantly evaluate the issues that advances in medicine have thrust upon us. Fifty years ago she wouldnt have had a chance to live this long, and we wouldnt have to grapple with the implications of it. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 8:17 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question I have to finally put my two cents in on this one. I cared for my former husband for several years after he was disabled. I wouldn't trade those years for anything. Now granted, he was able to communicate and take care of his basic needs but he had to use a wheelchair when we went out and could not take care of many of the things men handle like home and vehicle maintanence. I spent a lot of time having him teach me to do things LOL My point is that I believed that my marriage vows were in sickness and in health and held to that belief. I understand this man's dilema but he is not free to divorce and remarry as long as she is alive. I also believe that her fate is in God's hands and he should not tamper with that. Izzy compared her with an infant. Would we stop feeding our baby if it was the same situation? Just something to consider. Of course we cannot judge this man's motives but I wonder if he has made his decision based on fleshly desires or on what he truly believes God would have him do. Laura
RE: [TruthTalk] REPRIMAND: Obeying The Word with True LOVE
David, I also apologize for having an Izzy the cat frenzy last night; ie: borderline too much levity! This is something that comes over me occasionally when my husband leaves me unattended while he is watching an evening of televised baseball. Perhaps I should dash about the room and claw the furniture instead. :-) Izzy -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question
In a message dated 9/19/2003 9:51:21 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But you state that, I also believe that her fate is in God's hands and he should not tamper with that. By forcing medical treatment upon her, you could certainly say that people are tampering. You may be right. I am still thinking it through. I really haven't come to a conclusion. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question
\o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings in the Matchless NameofYahShua!! This would all be funny if it were not so tragic. Anyone ever see the movie, "Miller's Crossing". The central theme in the movie is ethics. One main character is constantly troubled by the lack of ethics of others. Oh, by the way, he's a vicious mob chief killer. Forced medical treatment?!?!? The woman has a feeding tube. She breathes on her own. She is only receiving nourishment. The husband has denied her therapy ever since he received money for therapy. He has fought against treatment for simple things i.e. bladder infection and been overruled by courts. A feeding tube ... you know, like the breast to an infant who would die without it (or spooned food) ... like an IV that is used to keep alive scads of people daily. Oh, by the way, SHE CAN SWALLOW but the judge has DENIED permission for her to be fed by mouth by one willing to take the time to do so. The only "artificial" means she needs to be kept alive is someone willing to spoon feed her. The biggest problem with this nation and the world today is that those who are supposed to know better (professing believers) can't even get their facts straight because they are so overwhelmed by fornication (compromising with the world). Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, Bro. Chris Barr a servant of YHVH
[TruthTalk] People today are generally just stupid
\o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings in the Matchless NameofYahShua!! "Lack of Oxygen May Not Halt Cancer's Spread" was last evening's news headline.NEWS?!?!?!?!After picking myself up from the floor following an uncontrollable fit of laughter the next thing out of my mouth was just a single word."IDIOTS!"Otto Warburg was awarded the 1931 Nobel Prize for his finding that cancer is a disease of a LACK of oxygen. THAT'S MORE THAN 70 YEAR OLD "NEWS"!Now some medical nimrods (redundancy) have "come up" with this startling information and one of the biggest and oldest medical journals publishes it as though it were some earth shattering finding!IDIOTS!So would one who trusts their primary health care to such idiotic nimrods of modern medicine bean evenBIGGER IDIOT?THE EMPEROR IS STILL NAKED! Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, Bro. Chris Barr a servant of YHVH
RE: [TruthTalk] Ethics question
FYI. Chris, a feeding tube is artificial medical life support treatment. If the patient has not consented, it is forced treatment. Izzy, -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Barr Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 9:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question \o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings in the Matchless NameofYahShua!! This would all be funny if it were not so tragic. Anyone ever see the movie, Miller's Crossing. The central theme in the movie is ethics. One main character is constantly troubled by the lack of ethics of others. Oh, by the way, he's a vicious mob chief killer. Forced medical treatment?!?!? The woman has a feeding tube. She breathes on her own. She is only receiving nourishment. The husband has denied her therapy ever since he received money for therapy. He has fought against treatment for simple things i.e. bladder infection and been overruled by courts. A feeding tube ... you know, like the breast to an infant who would die without it (or spooned food) ... like an IV that is used to keep alive scads of people daily. Oh, by the way, SHE CAN SWALLOW but the judge has DENIED permission for her to be fed by mouth by one willing to take the time to do so. The only artificial means she needs to be kept alive is someone willing to spoon feed her. The biggest problem with this nation and the world today is that those who are supposed to know better (professing believers) can't even get their facts straight because they are so overwhelmed by fornication (compromising with the world). Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, Bro. Chris Barr a servant of YHVH
RE: [TruthTalk] TruthTalkin' 'bout Torah walkin'
Hey Chris. We TruthTalk members need to stick together. How about you just send me a copy of this bill and I will pay you. Sound ok? Would you then be able to love and forgive this person and have kind thoughts toward him? David Miller 6003 W. Glory Hill St. Beverly Hills, FL 34465
Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question
Just something to muddy the thought process. What if you pull the plug on your patient today, and tomorrow they find the cure that was never available before? Could happen. Terry ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, September 19, 2003 10:00:19 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question In a message dated 9/19/2003 9:51:21 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But you state that, “I also believe that her fate is in God's hands and he should not tamper with that.” By forcing medical treatment upon her, you could certainly say that people are “tampering”. You may be right. I am still thinking it through. I really haven't come to a conclusion. Laura IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [TruthTalk] SOP
Hypocrite. What aboutyour interpretation of the 2nd Commandment? shalom slade e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Chris Barr To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 18 September, 2003 22:16 Subject: [TruthTalk] SOP \o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings in the Matchless NameofYahShua!! - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 09/18/2003 7:49 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] Ethics question By the way, I did see this woman on TV tonight, and she is not really comatose, as I assumed. Just standard operating procedure (SOP) for Izzy. Now, Iz should WRITE James 1:19 100 times before posting anything else. Oh, and remember Matthew 7:2 ... that was the first thing that came from my wife's lips as she read with horror Izzy's initial response. Izzy could very well find herself in an automobile wreck in a ditch with nobody to help her. Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, Bro. Chris Barr a servant of YHVH -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris BarrSent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 7:56 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [TruthTalk] Wickedness waxing more and more \o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings in the Matchless NameofYahShua!! OK, this woman collapsed mysteriously in 1990.Her husband sued doctors and won $1.3 million for her care.Husband never spent a nickel on any rehabilitative therapy -- only sustenance care.5 years ago he began trying to have her feeding tube removed and won't allow her to be hand fed. She breathes on her own.Oh, by the way, that is when hubby started shacking up with another whom he subsequently had a child by.Then it is discovered that a bone scan done in 1991 revealed numerous trauma spots as though she had been severly beaten in the past.Oh, by the way, the lawyer the husband has hired is a "right to die" expert ... and he has been paid with part of the $1.3 million originally awarded for the woman's care.Oh, and if the woman is allowed to starve to death (as the court has been ordering but the parents have been fighting) then hubby gets the rest of the money for himself.www.baynews9.com/site/New...ryid=24706www.terrisfight.org/lead.htm Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, Bro. Chris Barr a servant of YHVH
Re: [TruthTalk] Tidbits
That's the problem with Kabbalah. It makes "sense" of useless "facts." It feels like deep truth. Also, Chris's use of Gamatria is wrong. The number of the beast is not 18. shalom slade e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 16 September, 2003 22:46 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Tidbits In a message dated 9/16/2003 9:34:46 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you know that with a NINE digit social slavery number PLUS your NINE digit zip code that the system can identify WHO each person is and WHERE each person is? Oh, by the way, 9 + 9 = 18 and also = 6 6 6. Coincidence? Do you know that one place Social Security is regulated in the United States Code is Title 42, Section 666? Coincidence? True or not it gives me the creeps! Laura
RE: [TruthTalk] Ethics question
Terry, You can only make decisions upon the information you have available today. Cant look back tomorrow. Besides that, new medical developments take years of RD, and nothing just pops up unexpectedly overnight. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 3:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question Just something to muddy the thought process. What if you pull the plug on your patient today, and tomorrow they find the cure that was never available before? Could happen. Terry ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, September 19, 2003 10:00:19 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question In a message dated 9/19/2003 9:51:21 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But you state that, I also believe that her fate is in God's hands and he should not tamper with that. By forcing medical treatment upon her, you could certainly say that people are tampering. You may be right. I am still thinking it through. I really haven't come to a conclusion. Laura IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here image001.gif
RE: [TruthTalk] Ethics question
Hi Izzy, You asked:what if the wife had a Living Will in which she had written that she did not want to be kept alive by artificial means if she was comatose? I think artificial means would have to be defined more specificly. Feeding a person, bathing them, keeping them warm or cool, giving them water are artificial means! Would you really want to withhold such basic needs from one who was unable to do these things for themselves? Many people who are conscious and aware of their surroundings cannot do these things for themselves! Why should being comatose be a reason to withhold such basic care for the helpless? You asked:Would you then think it was right to keep her alive by feeding tube? I would certainly not think that one whose body carries on functions necessary for life should be denied food or water! If someone cannot breathe on their own, and keeping them alive is dependent on a machine to breathe for them, I would call that artificial means and I personally would not want my family to go through the process of keeping me alive by such a means. You asked:What if the wife was young, and had not yet written a living will, but had communicated verbally to her husband the same desire? Should he not obey her wishes? If I was the husband of one who had expressed such a desire, I would ask a lot more questions such as , What do YOU mean by artificial means? Any human assistance whatsoever? OR Normal body functions which no longer function and can only be performed by machines? You asked:How do you know that the person's soul has not already gone on to be with the Lord when they are comatose for a long time? Izzy, I don't. But I could also ask you, How could you be sure that the person's soul HAD DEPARTED, simply because they were comatose for a long time? You asked:You stated that you do not believe one should be kept alive by artificial means forever. So how long do you think they should be? Izzy, when I think of artificial means used to keep a comatose person alive I think of necessary bodily functions that can only be done by machines. (i.e. there is not sufficient brain activity so a person cannot breathe on their own, their heart will not beat on it's own, etc). How long such should be continued would be up to the next of kin. My daughter was on a missions trip to Ecuador this summer, 4 hours from civilization by canoe and another 6 hours by bus from a hospital! She was comatose for a number of hours, almost quit breathing a number of times and was running an extremely high temperature. She was kept alive by artificial means and a lot of prayer by her co-workers! Your brother in Christ, Bruce _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question
Then I take it that your conscience would not bother you if you snuffed your hubby a day too early? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Ethics question Terry, You can only make decisions upon the information you have available today. Cant look back tomorrow. Besides that, new medical developments take years of RD, and nothing just pops up unexpectedly overnight. Izzy -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry CliftonSent: Friday, September 19, 2003 3:59 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question Just something to muddy the thought process. What if you pull the plug on your patient today, and tomorrow they find the cure that was never available before? Could happen. Terry ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, September 19, 2003 10:00:19 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question In a message dated 9/19/2003 9:51:21 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But you state that, I also believe that her fate is in God's hands and he should not tamper with that. By forcing medical treatment upon her, you could certainly say that people are tampering. You may be right. I am still thinking it through. I really haven't come to a conclusion. Laura IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [TruthTalk] SOP
God works in wonderful ways in my life. On of the great lessons we can learn is associated with embarrassment. When I read this post, it appeared that Chris claimed to have seen the clip on TV because of the inclusion of the words as I assumed. However, after closer inspection, he appears to have added the words to a previous post. I ask Chris to forgive me for calling him a hypocrite on this thread. shalom slade e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 19 September, 2003 17:07 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] SOP Hypocrite. What aboutyour interpretation of the 2nd Commandment? shalom slade e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Chris Barr To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 18 September, 2003 22:16 Subject: [TruthTalk] SOP \o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings in the Matchless NameofYahShua!! - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 09/18/2003 7:49 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] Ethics question By the way, I did see this woman on TV tonight, and she is not really comatose, as I assumed. Just standard operating procedure (SOP) for Izzy. Now, Iz should WRITE James 1:19 100 times before posting anything else. Oh, and remember Matthew 7:2 ... that was the first thing that came from my wife's lips as she read with horror Izzy's initial response. Izzy could very well find herself in an automobile wreck in a ditch with nobody to help her. Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, Bro. Chris Barr a servant of YHVH -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris BarrSent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 7:56 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [TruthTalk] Wickedness waxing more and more \o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings in the Matchless NameofYahShua!! OK, this woman collapsed mysteriously in 1990.Her husband sued doctors and won $1.3 million for her care.Husband never spent a nickel on any rehabilitative therapy -- only sustenance care.5 years ago he began trying to have her feeding tube removed and won't allow her to be hand fed. She breathes on her own.Oh, by the way, that is when hubby started shacking up with another whom he subsequently had a child by.Then it is discovered that a bone scan done in 1991 revealed numerous trauma spots as though she had been severly beaten in the past.Oh, by the way, the lawyer the husband has hired is a "right to die" expert ... and he has been paid with part of the $1.3 million originally awarded for the woman's care.Oh, and if the woman is allowed to starve to death (as the court has been ordering but the parents have been fighting) then hubby gets the rest of the money for himself.www.baynews9.com/site/New...ryid=24706www.terrisfight.org/lead.htm Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, Bro. Chris Barr a servant of YHVH
Re: [TruthTalk] TruthTalkin' 'bout Torah walkin'
No debt is owed. At this point, there is no use in asking Chris to forgive. He's left the Spirit behind. shalom slade e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: David Miller To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 19 September, 2003 15:42 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] TruthTalkin' 'bout Torah walkin' Hey Chris. We TruthTalk members need to stick together. How about you just send me a copy of this bill and I will pay you. Sound ok? Would you then be able to love and forgive this person and have kind thoughts toward him? David Miller6003 W. Glory Hill St.Beverly Hills, FL 34465
RE: [TruthTalk] Ethics question
Terry, I am not talking about snuffing anyone. Im talking about ceasing from medical intervention to keep them alive, and letting nature take its course. Quite the opposite of snuffing out. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 6:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question Then I take it that your conscience would not bother you if you snuffed your hubby a day too early? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Ethics question Terry, You can only make decisions upon the information you have available today. Cant look back tomorrow. Besides that, new medical developments take years of RD, and nothing just pops up unexpectedly overnight. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 3:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question Just something to muddy the thought process. What if you pull the plug on your patient today, and tomorrow they find the cure that was never available before? Could happen. Terry ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, September 19, 2003 10:00:19 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question In a message dated 9/19/2003 9:51:21 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But you state that, I also believe that her fate is in God's hands and he should not tamper with that. By forcing medical treatment upon her, you could certainly say that people are tampering. You may be right. I am still thinking it through. I really haven't come to a conclusion. Laura IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
RE: [TruthTalk] Ethics question
PS If I were married to a certain someone whos name I will not mention (but you can guess!), I would happily snuff him out a day early. One must consider each situation on its own merits. ROFL! Oh, dear, I think I feel another one of those cat frenzies coming on.or maybe its just the atmospheric effect of Hurricane Izzy? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 9:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Ethics question Terry, I am not talking about snuffing anyone. Im talking about ceasing from medical intervention to keep them alive, and letting nature take its course. Quite the opposite of snuffing out. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 6:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question Then I take it that your conscience would not bother you if you snuffed your hubby a day too early? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Ethics question Terry, You can only make decisions upon the information you have available today. Cant look back tomorrow. Besides that, new medical developments take years of RD, and nothing just pops up unexpectedly overnight. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 3:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question Just something to muddy the thought process. What if you pull the plug on your patient today, and tomorrow they find the cure that was never available before? Could happen. Terry ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, September 19, 2003 10:00:19 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question In a message dated 9/19/2003 9:51:21 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But you state that, I also believe that her fate is in God's hands and he should not tamper with that. By forcing medical treatment upon her, you could certainly say that people are tampering. You may be right. I am still thinking it through. I really haven't come to a conclusion. Laura IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question
Is there another baseball game on tonight? LOL Laura
RE: [TruthTalk] Ethics question
Yes1 Im cracking up! Iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 9:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ethics question Is there another baseball game on tonight? LOL Laura
[TruthTalk] grace, seasoned with salt
Dear Ones, Why is it that we sometimes hurt the ones who are closest tous? Why is it that we sometimes seem to have so much in common with somebody else, only to find that we differ on smaller points, and then we loose sight of ourtrue Master, Who isable to lead each of us in His time? Only God canmake a hair white or black. "Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren,these things ought not so to be. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet [water] andbitter? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine,figs? so [can] no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. Who [is] a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let himshew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom." [JAM 3:10-14] "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) Love, Marlin
