Re: HUD in 12.04?
On 26/01/12 09:11, Robert cole wrote: Hello, Alan. I actually did install the Guest Additions through VirtualBox itself. yeah, don't do that :) sudo apt-get install virtualbox--ose-guest-x11 in the guest. I also installed Ubuntu into the Virtual machine using the blindness profile using Orca. I am probably going to get the daily live CD tomorrow and start from scratch. I do not know if there have been any changes regarding magnification in Unity3D, but I can still use eZoom on my host system for magnification if it is not available in the guest. I am testing some cool stuff with a fork of eZoom which does text cursor tracking, it works when I have two monitors, but breaks when I turn off the external monitor, which is a pain because I want to do a screencast of it, but it only works when my desktop is too big to screencast. Should be some updates on this soon. Alan. -- The Open Learning Centre is rebranding, find out about our new name and look at http://libertus.co.uk -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: HUD in 12.04?
On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 11:18:05AM EST, Robert cole wrote: > Thanks, Luke. > > I'll try and see if I can find out why Unity3D is not coming up for > me in VirtualBox. You need to make sure you have 3D graphics enabled in the virtual machine settings, and you also need to make sure you have the virtualbox guest support packages installed in the VM itself. Luke -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: HUD in 12.04?
Thanks, Luke. I'll try and see if I can find out why Unity3D is not coming up for me in VirtualBox. On 01/25/2012 03:07 PM, Luke Yelavich wrote: On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 09:58:10AM EST, Robert cole wrote: Hello, Bruno. I actually installed the x86 version as a VirtualBox guest, but the HUD will not work for me at all. I added the PPA repository and ran a dist-upgrade. Will it work in both Unity2D and Unity3D? Thai is the only thing I can think of, as even though I have 3D Acceleration enabled for the virtual machine, with a Video Memory size of 186 MB, Unity3D will not come up at all. There is also no cog icon to choose which desktop environment to log into on the login screen. When I press ALT to try to invoke the HUD, nothing happens other than the normal global menu behavior in which a certain letter of a menu (e.g. [F]ile, [E]dit, [V]iew ,etc) is underscored. No, only unity 3D is getting it for the time being... Another reason why the 2 codebases need to merge into one somehow at some point... Luke -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: HUD in 12.04?
On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 09:58:10AM EST, Robert cole wrote: > Hello, Bruno. > > I actually installed the x86 version as a VirtualBox guest, but the > HUD will not work for me at all. I added the PPA repository and ran > a dist-upgrade. Will it work in both Unity2D and Unity3D? Thai is > the only thing I can think of, as even though I have 3D Acceleration > enabled for the virtual machine, with a Video Memory size of 186 MB, > Unity3D will not come up at all. There is also no cog icon to choose > which desktop environment to log into on the login screen. When I > press ALT to try to invoke the HUD, nothing happens other than the > normal global menu behavior in which a certain letter of a menu > (e.g. [F]ile, [E]dit, [V]iew ,etc) is underscored. No, only unity 3D is getting it for the time being... Another reason why the 2 codebases need to merge into one somehow at some point... Luke -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: HUD in 12.04?
Hello, Bruno. I actually installed the x86 version as a VirtualBox guest, but the HUD will not work for me at all. I added the PPA repository and ran a dist-upgrade. Will it work in both Unity2D and Unity3D? Thai is the only thing I can think of, as even though I have 3D Acceleration enabled for the virtual machine, with a Video Memory size of 186 MB, Unity3D will not come up at all. There is also no cog icon to choose which desktop environment to log into on the login screen. When I press ALT to try to invoke the HUD, nothing happens other than the normal global menu behavior in which a certain letter of a menu (e.g. [F]ile, [E]dit, [V]iew ,etc) is underscored. Am I doing something wrong? On 01/25/2012 02:50 PM, Bruno Girin wrote: On 24/01/12 23:28, Robert cole wrote: Thanks for the link, Bruno. I am downloading a daily build of the Precise live CD right now. Should I use the daily build or should I get something else? I don't have a physical machine dedicated to testing, so do you think that things would work just as well in a VirtualBox Guest? At this time that is my only option, so I hope that I can help with testing. I had issues running the x86_64 ISO in a VirtualBox guest due to a bug [1] but as it now says "fix committed", there's a chance it'll be fixed if you use the daily live CD. If you're running the x86 ISO, you should be fine (unless you hit another bug). But anyway, even if your testing consists in working out you can't run it in VirtualBox, it's still valuable feeback! [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/850264 Cheers, Bruno -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: HUD in 12.04?
On 24/01/12 23:28, Robert cole wrote: Thanks for the link, Bruno. I am downloading a daily build of the Precise live CD right now. Should I use the daily build or should I get something else? I don't have a physical machine dedicated to testing, so do you think that things would work just as well in a VirtualBox Guest? At this time that is my only option, so I hope that I can help with testing. I had issues running the x86_64 ISO in a VirtualBox guest due to a bug [1] but as it now says "fix committed", there's a chance it'll be fixed if you use the daily live CD. If you're running the x86 ISO, you should be fine (unless you hit another bug). But anyway, even if your testing consists in working out you can't run it in VirtualBox, it's still valuable feeback! [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/850264 Cheers, Bruno -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: HUD in 12.04?
Thanks for the link, Bruno. I am downloading a daily build of the Precise live CD right now. Should I use the daily build or should I get something else? I don't have a physical machine dedicated to testing, so do you think that things would work just as well in a VirtualBox Guest? At this time that is my only option, so I hope that I can help with testing. Thanks again for the link. Take care. On 01/24/2012 03:13 PM, Bruno Girin wrote: On 24/01/12 23:02, Robert cole wrote: This is really neat. I am really looking forward to testing it out in the near future. Funny you should say that because here are the details of how we can help with testing: http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/01/testing-hud-heads-up-display.html I will certainly upgrade to Precise at the week-end in order to test HUD and the more people do it, the more likely it is to be a great feature in Precise. Cheers, Bruno -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: HUD in 12.04?
On 24/01/12 23:02, Robert cole wrote: This is really neat. I am really looking forward to testing it out in the near future. Funny you should say that because here are the details of how we can help with testing: http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/01/testing-hud-heads-up-display.html I will certainly upgrade to Precise at the week-end in order to test HUD and the more people do it, the more likely it is to be a great feature in Precise. Cheers, Bruno -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: HUD in 12.04?
This is really neat. I am really looking forward to testing it out in the near future. On 01/24/2012 02:47 PM, Alan Bell wrote: On 24/01/12 22:30, Dave Hunt wrote: Do we have it right, in concept? I hope it's usable with Orca by Beta time! -Dave yeah, I think it will be fine by release (not sure about the first betas) it just needs to have an accessible string on the list of suggestions it gives (which would be the same as the visual text, but with HTML markup removed. For example if you type "new" in the HUD with thunderbird focussed it might show options below the field for: File > *New* > Message File > *New* > Address book contact File > Send *Now* so it is bolding the word it thinks you typed, putting them in the order of what you most probably meant first, and is doing a bit of fuzzy matching to pick up "Now" being a possible typo for "New". Right now these can get keyboard focus by going down from the edit field, but they don't say anything. Alan. -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: HUD in 12.04?
On 24/01/12 22:30, Dave Hunt wrote: Do we have it right, in concept? I hope it's usable with Orca by Beta time! -Dave yeah, I think it will be fine by release (not sure about the first betas) it just needs to have an accessible string on the list of suggestions it gives (which would be the same as the visual text, but with HTML markup removed. For example if you type "new" in the HUD with thunderbird focussed it might show options below the field for: File > *New* > Message File > *New* > Address book contact File > Send *Now* so it is bolding the word it thinks you typed, putting them in the order of what you most probably meant first, and is doing a bit of fuzzy matching to pick up "Now" being a possible typo for "New". Right now these can get keyboard focus by going down from the edit field, but they don't say anything. Alan. -- The Open Learning Centre is rebranding, find out about our new name and look at http://libertus.co.uk -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: HUD in 12.04?
Speakable Items lets you activate apps, or parts of apps, with a voice command, with an optional 'push-to-talk' key. For instance, if SA is configured, you hold down your key and say "send email". The Mac mail app will be focused, with the addressbook open. You select your recipients from the list, type your subject and body, ... If you say "check mail", for instance, your inbox summary will show up. Unless I don't have it set up right, only the apps that come with OSX have configurable Speakable Items. HTH, Dave On 01/24/2012 04:33 PM, Paul Hunt wrote: I'm not that familiar with OS X, how does speakable items work? The blog does mention integrating voice control into the HUD. -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: HUD in 12.04?
On 24/01/12 20:48, Dave Hunt wrote: After reading this post, I have no idea what the HUD will look like or how an eyes-free user will use it. Cheers, Dave Hunt http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/939 within seconds of it being announced I had spoken to one of the lead developers about it, in fact here is an edited (as in removed other lines and this went across two IRC channels) transcript 14:08 < gord> https://plus.google.com/112811220238447511854/posts/XWYJQhYATdG *cough* http://www.markshuttleworth.com/ *cough* 14:09 < gord> such a bad *cough* today - http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/372385/ubuntu-rips-up-drop-down-menus *splutter* 14:09 * AlanBell prepares to slap gord if it doesn't work with orca 14:09 < AlanBell> but it does look pretty 14:10 < gord> i may have completely forgotten about orca ;) i'll make sure its fixed and talk to the qa guys about integrating orca into the tests 14:10 * AlanBell gets out a haddock and slaps gord round the face with it 14:11 < AlanBell> it looks like a great idea gord, I can see this being quite popular 14:12 < davmor2> AlanBell, gord: I can see people who hate unity crying into hankies now, me on the other hand I think it's cool :) 14:16 < AlanBell> gord: so when is it landing in precise? 14:16 < gord> AlanBell, next unity release is next week, so if everything goes well, then 16:43 * AlanBell tries HUD with Orca 16:47 < AlanBell> hmm, can't see any of unity with orca right now :( 16:51 < AlanBell> gord: ok, I restarted and orca reads unity now 16:52 < AlanBell> I get "HUD frame" and it can read the content of the field you type in 16:52 < AlanBell> gord: but it does not read the items in the list below the field you can navigate to and flat review mode doesn't work there either 16:54 < gord> AlanBell, yeah I need to do some work there and in possibly related news I spoke to some of the QA people doing automated testing of Unity2d today and explained how to set up a dummy speech dispatcher module that outputs text to a file instead of making sounds so they can do automated testing of the output of what Orca would say. They can test the accessibility strings on individual widgets already, but I want them to do testing of the final output so that they can see when orca is producing a jumble of words when navigating about the desktop. Alan. -- The Open Learning Centre is rebranding, find out about our new name and look at http://libertus.co.uk -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: HUD in 12.04?
This was very interesting. Thanks for the link to that post, Dave. I think that this could be a very powerful feature, especially if it is accessible to blind users. As Paul stated, it looks like the menus will still be available, and hotkeys should still work. If this works out (as stated before with accessibility implemented), I think it would be pretty amazing. Just take this scenario for example: You are doing something in LibreOffice, and you forgot the shortcut key(s) to edit different styles. You could use ALT+F to open the file menu, and navigate through all of the menus until you find what you are looking for, or you could simply open up the HUD and type in "Style" and have every style-related option which exists in the menu trees presented to you. That would definitely save a ton of time. it seems really intuitive. All I can say is that I installed windows 8 Developer Preview into a virtual machine today so that I could begin learning it so I could help others when it comes out (I have not been a Windows user for nearly five years now), and I really love how Unity and GNOME Shell are coming along much better than the Windows 8 interface. I know that there is still probably a lot of...I'll just call it user frustration...surrounding Unity and GNOME Shell (I was one who was pretty frustrated in the beginning)...I think that these two desktops (as well as KDE and XFCE) are really shaping up to be something great, especially in the area of accessibility. I am really looking forward to seeing what the future holds for Linux desktops. Thanks again for the link, Dave. On 01/24/2012 12:48 PM, Dave Hunt wrote: After reading this post, I have no idea what the HUD will look like or how an eyes-free user will use it. Cheers, Dave Hunt http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/939 -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: HUD in 12.04?
It's actually quite encouraging as it's a method for finding and invoking functionality within an app that is centred around using the keyboard. That's in stark contrast to what's been going on with most operating systems / devices lately where pointing and clicking or tapping on a touch screen is the order of the day. And as it's using existing toolkits like GTK and QT hopefully it wont be too bad from an accessibility point of view. I'm not that familiar with OS X, how does speakable items work? The blog does mention integrating voice control into the HUD. On 24/01/12 21:24, Dave Hunt wrote: I'm more curious than worried; just wanted to pass this along. Thanks for your thoughts on how it may work. One can already search for parts of the gnome-control-center app from Unity and the Gnome shell; not sure about other apps. For instance, if you search for "keyboard", in the Gnome shell or Unity, you'll get the "keyboard" page, from the control center, as a search result. Pretty cool, actually, if you don't know what the app is called, or where it is. So, if the HUD is just taking this kind of search ability further, that's interesting. Now, if we could make something analogus to the "speakable items" in OSX, That would be great. Cheers, Dave Hunt I tweet as wx1gdave Voice chat on sip:w...@ekiga.net . On 01/24/2012 04:09 PM, Paul Hunt wrote: Interesting, Well I don't think it's anything to worry about for now from a blind user's perspective. -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: HUD in 12.04?
I'm more curious than worried; just wanted to pass this along. Thanks for your thoughts on how it may work. One can already search for parts of the gnome-control-center app from Unity and the Gnome shell; not sure about other apps. For instance, if you search for "keyboard", in the Gnome shell or Unity, you'll get the "keyboard" page, from the control center, as a search result. Pretty cool, actually, if you don't know what the app is called, or where it is. So, if the HUD is just taking this kind of search ability further, that's interesting. Now, if we could make something analogus to the "speakable items" in OSX, That would be great. Cheers, Dave Hunt I tweet as wx1gdave Voice chat on sip:w...@ekiga.net . On 01/24/2012 04:09 PM, Paul Hunt wrote: Interesting, Well I don't think it's anything to worry about for now from a blind user's perspective. -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: HUD in 12.04?
Interesting, Well I don't think it's anything to worry about for now from a blind user's perspective. If, and it still appears to be an if, it lands in 12.04 it will be an optional thing and the more traditional menus still available. It just sounds like a way of offering you the ability to search for items that exist in an application's menus rather than having to navigate through them with the arrows. I hope the developers are taking accessibility into account as they work on it... It can't possibly be any more confusing than the Microsoft Office ribbon bar thingy. I'm still baffled by that! On 24/01/12 20:48, Dave Hunt wrote: After reading this post, I have no idea what the HUD will look like or how an eyes-free user will use it. Cheers, Dave Hunt http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/939 -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
HUD in 12.04?
After reading this post, I have no idea what the HUD will look like or how an eyes-free user will use it. Cheers, Dave Hunt http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/939 -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
