Re: Audio no longer feasible with vanilla Ubuntu + Studio packages (?)

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Le 09/10/2010 21:31, Ronan Jouchet a écrit :
>
> Anything else I should try? Thanks!
>
>
Did you had your username to "audio" group ?

Toine

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Re: Real-time kernel?

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Le 16/09/2010 20:07, Scott Lavender a écrit :
> Toine,
>
> Let me preface this email by thanking you for your involvement with 
> Ubuntu Studio.  I've read quite a bit of the mail archives, Ubuntu 
> Forum posts, and wiki/help documentation I have seen your name often.  
> I certainly hope you continue your involvement.
>
>
Scott, Thanks for this preface, it makes my face going red ;-)

As you say, be sure that I will continue to be involved as I do: I was 
one of the first guy to work on documentation for multimedia production 
with Ubuntu (before Ubuntu Studio, the project name was Mubuntu for 
Multimedia Ubuntu), and I try to keep up to date, recording audio, 
testing pro audio hardware, and writing documentations since (around 
2005). I always have a look on the mailing list and answer when I think 
my opinion can be useful (some times it appends to be useless...)

I left the Ubuntu Studio Developers team 2 years ago mainly because I 
disagree with Cory about what Ubuntu Studio should be: imho, it should 
be focused on common users (Ubuntu's aim), not on Linux specialists 
(there are other distributions for them). If you search a bit more, you 
will see that I participated to the UDS of november 2006 for helping to 
"clear the sound mess in Ubuntu". It's great to see that finally, 4 
years later, after several trials, etc... it is quite ok in Ubuntu! And 
that's an important step imho, with the ffado sound cards support, if we 
want to have more common users producing multimedia with Ubuntu (Studio, 
or Vanilla), switching from mac or win.

Now, you know my background about multimedia production with Ubuntu.
>
> I would be interested in pulling some numbers to determine just how 
> many people use the vanilla Ubuntu LiveCD and then install their 
> specifically required apps.  Any ideas or initiative to effect this 
> would be appreciated.
I agree. Perhaps you could ask some install media downloads vs Ubuntu 
Studio metapackages install statistics to Canonical ? Using the Ubuntu 
Studio web site and the poll functionality of Drupal could be a solution 
too, and it would create a stronger community, more user concerned.
>
> While I do not think we have the developer resources to move away from 
> the alternative installer at the moment...
I agree, see below, I have an idea too keep a media, but with less 
people resources needed.
> ... (but I would be happy if someone proved me wrong) there has been 
> discussions about dividing the audio applications into finer 
> granularity meta-packages.  Nothing tangible has really been discussed 
> but a rough delineation might be recording live instruments (i.e. a 
> band situation) vs. MIDI/synthesis instruments (i.e. tone 
> generation).  This would hopefully align installed applications closer 
> to user work flows.
Perhaps we should focus on less applications, use the website to choose 
the most used/important (via polls?), and then be sure that everything 
works well "out of the box", to provide very good backport and support ? 
Most of users I know don't use more than 10 applications to 
produce/record music (plus ladspa/lv2 etc...).
>
> I have given a lot of thought lately to this topic.  Several people 
> have strongly suggested the use of PPA's and websites rather than an 
> Ubuntu Studio disc and the official Ubuntu archives.
+1 imho.
>
> Releasing Ubuntu Studio on disc affords us several advantages over 
> other methodologies:
>  * allows us to control what is *not* installed - good example is the 
> use of gnome-network-admin in lieu of network manager (which was found 
> to degrade recording performance) or the MeMenu
Anyone doing serious recording disable networks before running jackd, 
and enable network only for security updates. So no matter wich app you 
use to manage network. It allows sound technicians to use the same 
computer (on different sessions, one for production, one for common use, 
as do most studios with Apple computers).
>  * a single Ubuntu Studio disc can be installed on multiple machines
>  * allows installation on a studio machine that may not have internet
>  * the disc can be downloaded outside the studio - perhaps the studio 
> has dial up internet connection, but the ISO can be downloaded 
> somewhere else that has a much faster connection
What about a simple dvd of packages? it would be easier to create, 
maintain/update, no installation to test, etc... and will preserve those 
functionalities, in addition to the vanilla Ubuntu media.
>
> You also mention backports.  An official Ubuntu Studio PPA for 
> backports has been discussed as well.  It should be noted that the 
> backports PPA would also serve as a method to guarantee the quality of 
> a backport (tested by Ubuntu Studio users and devs) before it went 
> into the official archives to be released for all Ubuntu users.
I agree. You may contact falkTX, the maintainer of the PPA below. Most 
of backports he is doing for his project are stable and useful. Perhaps 
he

Re: Real-time kernel?

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Le 14/09/2010 04:38, Chris Jones a écrit :
> I'll be honest here, it's one of the contributing reasons that I don't
> use the Ubuntu Studio, in favor of the vanilla Ubuntu tweaked to my
> preferences instead.
>
Most users currently install Ubuntu from standard live cd, and then 
install only what they need. I am concerned by audio production and know 
a lot of people using Ubuntu for that, no one use the alternative cd/dvd 
install: it is not user friendly, and install too much stuff. Who need a 
menu full of things he/she will not use ? I am with you, the Ubuntu 
Studio install media is not a priority.
>> Some would also disagree with your about an -rt kernel for video or
>> graphic work.  It has been suggested that the -rt kernel give better
>> responsiveness when working with tablets although I am unaware it this
>> has actually been tested.
>>  
Some Video editors have a usefull jackd connection for sound. This is 
the same if you work on a video sound track with Ardour+Xjadeo: you need 
the real time kernel for jackd responsiveness.
> Anyway, since then and only after many years of being stuck dual-booting
> with WinXP, I've migrated all my work as a Photographic and Digital
> Imaging Professional onto the Linux platform. Ubuntu+KDE4.5.
>
As I am curious and don't know well the photo and graphics part, could 
you tell us wich applications are you usi,g for your professional 
activities with Ubuntu ?
> Somewhere along the line I would like to get back to Ubuntu Studio, but
> not in it's current form. Hence my keen interest in the project as a
> whole.
>
I agree with on that point: I am not sure that Ubuntu Studio needs to be 
a full distribution. As I have already said, I think Ubuntu Studio 
community would be more useful providing good backports for multimedia 
production, maintain the ubuntu-studio-menu and some other useful 
packages/tools/gui/apps. And have a good and simple website like playdeb 
or getdeb, more documented and in several languages.

Toine

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Re: The audio group

[tto...@ttoine.net]

> Toine,
>
> No, I was not using Falk's PPA.  I have a Lucid install (with in the 
> audio group) for my main recording box.
>
> But I have also done some testing of Maverick (which I believe 
> included JACK2 at the time) although I didn't explore if I was part of 
> the audio group.  I plan on installing the new Beta and seeing if 
> JACK2 is still installed by default,  if the user is in the audio 
> group still, if real-time is granted for JACK, and how the integration 
> between Pulse Audio and JACK stands.

Scott,

Using Maverick, with the default kernel, jackd can be launched with real 
time option without being in the audio group. But in order to have good 
performance (latency less than 10ms) I have to add myself to the audio 
group... More, when you install jackd2 with Synaptic, this is mentionned 
that you have to do it.

Toine

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Re: Pulse Audio and Jack in Maverick

[tto...@ttoine.net]

> I'm a Japanese user of Ubuntu Studio and make some documents in Japanese
> community. Last week I make a document about this PulseAudio integration.
>
> https://wiki.ubuntulinux.jp/UbuntuStudioTips/Application/JACK-PulseAudio
>

Takashi, thanks a lot for the tip, I updated the 
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudioPreparation page so. It 
seems to be a good solution, waiting for something more automatic in the 
Pulse Audio configuration.

Toine

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Re: Pulse Audio and Jack in Maverick

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Le 04/09/2010 10:05, David Henningsson a écrit :
> 2010-09-03 18:34, tto...@ttoine.net skrev:
>
>> Hi everybody,
>>
>> I just saw in the Maverick beta wiki pages that in Ubuntu Studio
>> Maverick, some work has been done for better integration between
>> PulseAudio and Jackd. Is it available for vanilla Ubuntu too ?
>>  
> Yes. I'm assuming it is the Jack2-dbus and PA device handover that the
> document is talking about.
>
>
Ok, I can confirm that in Maverick Beta, it is ok: Pulse Audio don't 
stop the sound if you launch qjackctl nor jackd; two sound cards (one 
for Pulse Audio and one for Jack) works good; if you start jackd on the 
default Pulse Audio sound card, Pulse Audio applications will not crash, 
but you won't see any jack sink choice, just too bad (with 
pulseaudio-module-jack package installed, of course).

So, three options to fix this problem:
  - Document a small script or command line that we can add to the jackd 
command or in the setup of qjackctl to ask Pulse Audio to load jack sink;
  - Create a Pulse Audio script that would load a jack sink, a kind of 
fake jack sound card would be visible in the hardware list in the 
Preferences panel of Pulse Audio. I am for this possibility, it is the 
more simple for the user and it let the choice; if the user choose the 
jack sink "sound card", or if there is only one sound card, then, Pulse 
Audio would be visible in applications like Patchage;
  - Create a Pulse Audio script that would load jack sink, enable sound 
on default sound AND on jack sink, and then, it would be to the user to 
connect (eg with patchage) the Pulse Audio outputs to the soundcard outputs.

Toine

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Re: Pulse Audio and Jack in Maverick

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Le 03/09/2010 23:11, Marc R.J. Brevoort a écrit :
> On Fri, 3 Sep 2010, tto...@ttoine.net wrote:
>
>
>> I just saw in the Maverick beta wiki pages that in Ubuntu Studio
>> Maverick, some work has been done for better integration between
>> PulseAudio and Jackd. Is it available for vanilla Ubuntu too ?
>> If not, does this need to install a specific package, or is there a
>> tweak we can document for non "Studio" users? I ask that because I am
>> downloading Maverick beta at the moment, but not the Studio, the
>> standard one, with the aim to test and document that important point!
>>  
> I've just set up a system that plays back pulseaudio over jack over
> ALSA on Lucid.
> The following are not step-by-step instructions but may help you
> get started.
>
> You'll need pulseaudio-module-jack, the regular set of
> jack util packages;
>
> ~/.asoundrc containing this:
> pcm.pulse {
>   type pulse
> }
> ctl.pulse {
>   type pulse
> }
> pcm.!default {
>   type pulse
> }
> ctl.!default {
>   type pulse
> }
>
> follow the recommendations that qjackctl gives you when trying to start
> it and failing;
>
> create two files,
>
> 1. ~/bin/jack.pa containing the following:
>
> #!/bin/bash
> # (two following lines matter most)
> pactl load-module module-jack-sink
> pactl load-module module-jack-source
>
> pactl load-module module-native-protocol-unix
> pactl load-module module-volume-restore
> pactl load-module module-default-device-restore
> pactl load-module module-rescue-streams
> pactl load-module module-suspend-on-idle
>
> 2. a file ~/bin/startjack containing this:
> #!/bin/bash
> /usr/bin/jackd -dalsa -dhw:0 -r44100 -p1024 -n2
>
> (which is the line shown by qjackctl after successful startup)
>
> give both file execute permissions;
>
> chmod +x ~/bin/*
>
> and add them as startup programs.
>
> re-login, in sound preferences set "Jack sink" as
> default audio device.
>
> Thus you'll have a system that (in theory) directs all its audio
> through JACK.
>
> One minor thing is that when starting qjackctl, pulseaudio is
> suspended, which is not ideal. As you're running the jack
> daemon as startup program, You'll also want to tell qjackctl
> not to terminate jack on exiting.
>
> I hope this is of some use to you even though terribly
> incomplete and written up from memory too so probably full
> of errors.
>
> Best,
> Marc
>
>
What would be better, would be to see in the audio/sound preferences a 
"jackd" sound card, and manually choose it if necessary. This is not 
always good to have all applications on jackd. And Pulse Audio will 
remember this choice every time jackd is launched, as it does when you 
plug an usb sound card.

Will try that this week-end, or next week, and let you know. This is one 
of the most important stuff, with firewire, for Maverick, imho.

Toine

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Pulse Audio and Jack in Maverick

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Hi everybody,

I just saw in the Maverick beta wiki pages that in Ubuntu Studio 
Maverick, some work has been done for better integration between 
PulseAudio and Jackd. Is it available for vanilla Ubuntu too ?

If not, does this need to install a specific package, or is there a 
tweak we can document for non "Studio" users? I ask that because I am 
downloading Maverick beta at the moment, but not the Studio, the 
standard one, with the aim to test and document that important point!

I will try to get a firewire sound card to see how I can document too 
the use of that kind of stuff in Maverick.

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Re: The audio group

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Le 03/09/2010 13:13, David Henningsson a écrit :
> 2010-08-24 10:56, David Henningsson skrev:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Adding users to the audio group is not recommended for reasons I've just
>> documented here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Audio/TheAudioGroup
>>
>> Looking at ubuntu studio documentation, you seem to recommend people to
>> add themselves to the audio group pretty much (found by doing a search
>> for "audio group" on help.ubuntu.com), so can we remove it? Change it to
>> something else?
>>  
> So to follow up,
>
> Perhaps trying to change this for Maverick is too late in the cycle, so
> I propose that we keep it as it is for now, and for Natty, we try to
> make jack request real-time privileges via RealTimeKit - and thus
> /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf won't be needed at all.
>
> How does that sound?
>
>

David, it sounds very good, imho the best, easiest and simple way for users.


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Re: Beta in risk - a related story

[tto...@ttoine.net]

2010/9/2 Marc R.J. Brevoort >


On Thu, 2 Sep 2010, Ara Pulido wrote:

> Right now, and for Beta, the Ubuntu Studio ISOs haven't been tested:
>
> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntustudio/all
>
> I am afraid that, if they remain untested, the Release Team
might decide
> to NOT release Ubuntu Studio Maverick Beta.



It's probably because most of users don't install Studio from iso, but 
install first Ubuntu with the live cd, then, install the meta-packages, 
or only what they need. Continuing to provide a text only install in not 
a good idea. Who wants today to install in text mode when the current 
live cd offer a direct, simple and usefull gui ?


IMHO, it has always been a bad thing to propose only the alternative 
install CD/DVD I mean that our user are more focused on using 
application than in tweaking the system, nor in installing it. Even if 
we consider that most of the potential users of Ubuntu Studio are 
experienced Linux users, two cases are possible:
 - They are looking for a fast install and an easy day to day use, so 
they will use the Ubuntu live cd and add only the applications they 
need, because the Ubuntu Studio cd/dvd installer is not user friendly 
and install too much stuff;
 - If text installation is not the problem, so Ubuntu Studio is not 
tuned enough for high performance and they will choose something else 
like the 64 Studio distribution.


So, two solutions:
 - Having a live cd, and the community will welcome it very well, from 
users to third party application developers, who can consider it as a a 
good showcase solution. I think that if Ardour developers have a lot of 
MacOS X actuality, it is because there is no serious Linux distribution 
providing a working live cd/dvd for multimedia production, to 
demonstrate their product and catch new users.
 - Stopping providing a media, and build a site like getdeb/playdeb, 
with the list of applications, good multilingual descriptions, 
screen-shots and tutorials; and then, focus more on backporting and 
optimising, than on themes, and other non important stuff for multimedia 
production.


IMHO (again), the best way for Ubuntu Studio is between this two 
solutions: create a good Live CD (and not a DVD), optimised, focusing on 
main multimedia applications (need to be defined by users, not by 
developers, e.g using some polls on the website), and to have a good 
multilingual website, focused on applications, backporting (current LTS, 
and current distribution only, no need to backport for all releases), etc...


In a few words: be more users, functionalities, and usefulness focused!

Toine
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Re: The audio group

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Le 24/08/2010 19:04, Scott Lavender a écrit :



On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 8:56 AM, tto...@ttoine.net 
<mailto:tto...@ttoine.net> <mailto:tto...@ttoine.net>> wrote:




Le 24/08/2010 12:11, Cory K. a écrit :

On 08/24/2010 04:56 AM, David Henningsson wrote:
   

Hi,

Adding users to the audio group is not recommended for reasons I've just
documented here:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Audio/TheAudioGroup

Looking at ubuntu studio documentation, you seem to recommend people to
add themselves to the audio group pretty much (found by doing a search
for "audio group" onhelp.ubuntu.com  <http://help.ubuntu.com>), so can we 
remove it? Change it to
something else?

 

That's under the "community" section. Something we don't control.

Also, it was nessesary in the past because of permissions needed for
some soundcards. (firewire I believe) From what I have seen, our users
are folks who have "single-user" systems. (this is actually our target
audience and setup) So your "Implications" section will not apply to them.

Someone with more current grasp on the situation should chime in. As
long as a solution can be found that works for everyone we can change
the documentation. In the end, adding users still might be needed for
corner cases and those folks won't care. They'll just want their gear to
work. :)


-Cory K.

   

David, Cory,

Their would be one case, when a user would have his workstation in
a dedicated room for noisy hardware, and use a remote connection
with a low power computer in the studio, where this could be a
problem as David described.

With the current LTS release, the use of the "audio" group is for
a real time use of jackd. The document you may have found is this
one, I guess:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudioPreparation#Real
time (-rt) and Low latency (-lowlatency) kernels

<https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudioPreparation#Real%20time%20%28-rt%29%20and%20Low%20latency%20%28-lowlatency%29%20kernels>

For firewire sound cards, ffado driver needs user to be member of
the "video" group, as a firewire sound card is considered to be
similar as a "dv" camera by firewire libraries.

Maybe, we just have to change "audio" group for "realtime" or
something like that. That would mean changing the post
configuration of jackd installation package, wich create the
"audio" settings/entries for real time use. If you think this is
compulsory, then, it is easy to do it: ask the jackd maintainer to
change the group name, I and other update their documentation and
it's done.

To "fine tune", a dedicated possibility should be added to "User
and Group Manager Privileges" GUI, and maybe the "Use audio
devices" should be renamed for "Use audio devices on remote
connection" or something like that.

Toine


Crimsun has mentioned that the user shouldn't be added to the audio 
group at all for real-time privileges.  My understanding is that 
privileges are granted by ConsoleKit for the active user at the 
keyboard.  Unfortunately, that is the extent of my understanding.


You can see his explanation beginning at [20:09] here: 
http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/05/16/%23ubuntustudio-devel.txt


I haven't tested this though and I don't think the user has been 
removed by default from the audio group for maverick at this point.


ScottL



ScottL,

Jack from Ubuntu 10.04 repositories won't start in real time if the user 
is not in the audio group. For that, you have to use the jackd 2 from 
the PPA of falk-tj, on Launchpad.


Are you using his backports as a base for maverick ?

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Re: (re)Developing the Ubuntu Studio Site

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Le 23/08/2010 00:11, Joey // Bearded Axe Multimedia a écrit :

Hi,

Interested in learning more about your ambition in renovating your 
website - you're looking for volunteer services or is this a paid gig? 
I have some experience with Drupal but my strong suit is the artistic 
side of things. If your Drupal requirements were beyond my expertise, 
I'd call in my sidekick whom I do a lot of work with.


At any rate, here is my portfolio if you're curious:
http://beardedaxe.net/portfolio.php

If you like what you see, maybe you can give me more information on 
this. Hoping to hear from you,

--
Joseph Stasio
Bearded Axe Multimedia
http://beardedaxe.net


Joseph,

Would you offer your experience for free ?? This is a comunautary open 
source project.


Toine
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Re: The audio group

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Le 24/08/2010 12:11, Cory K. a écrit :

On 08/24/2010 04:56 AM, David Henningsson wrote:
   

Hi,

Adding users to the audio group is not recommended for reasons I've just
documented here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Audio/TheAudioGroup

Looking at ubuntu studio documentation, you seem to recommend people to
add themselves to the audio group pretty much (found by doing a search
for "audio group" on help.ubuntu.com), so can we remove it? Change it to
something else?

 

That's under the "community" section. Something we don't control.

Also, it was nessesary in the past because of permissions needed for
some soundcards. (firewire I believe) From what I have seen, our users
are folks who have "single-user" systems. (this is actually our target
audience and setup) So your "Implications" section will not apply to them.

Someone with more current grasp on the situation should chime in. As
long as a solution can be found that works for everyone we can change
the documentation. In the end, adding users still might be needed for
corner cases and those folks won't care. They'll just want their gear to
work. :)


-Cory K.

   

David, Cory,

Their would be one case, when a user would have his workstation in a 
dedicated room for noisy hardware, and use a remote connection with a 
low power computer in the studio, where this could be a problem as David 
described.


With the current LTS release, the use of the "audio" group is for a real 
time use of jackd. The document you may have found is this one, I guess:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudioPreparation#Real time 
(-rt) and Low latency (-lowlatency) kernels 



For firewire sound cards, ffado driver needs user to be member of the 
"video" group, as a firewire sound card is considered to be similar as a 
"dv" camera by firewire libraries.


Maybe, we just have to change "audio" group for "realtime" or something 
like that. That would mean changing the post configuration of jackd 
installation package, wich create the "audio" settings/entries for real 
time use. If you think this is compulsory, then, it is easy to do it: 
ask the jackd maintainer to change the group name, I and other update 
their documentation and it's done.


To "fine tune", a dedicated possibility should be added to "User and 
Group Manager Privileges" GUI, and maybe the "Use audio devices" should 
be renamed for "Use audio devices on remote connection" or something 
like that.


Toine


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Re: Next steps after inclusion of jack in main

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Fritz Meissner a écrit :
> On 8 April 2010 00:04, Scott Lavender  wrote:
>   
>> On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Fritz Meissner 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> I've been trying out the 2010-03-17 build; it appears that PA and jack
>>> are still mutually exclusive. When I start jack, PA stops, and
>>> applications such as Totem will not play. When I exit jack, PA is
>>> restarted. So we are not yet seeing the benefits of having jack
>>> included in main - I assume that at this stage of Lucid's development,
>>> this is not likely to change ?
>>>
>>> Fritz
>>>   
>> Apparently you can circumvent the wrapper script that stops suspends PA and
>> starts qctljack.  If you run qjackctl.bin directly it avoids it.  I learned
>> this from this Ubuntu Forum thread, post #5...
>>
>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1293082
>>
>> This along with the package pulseaudio-module-jack I believe you should find
>> things more compatible.
>>
>> Disclaimer, I haven't really researched this module much and I haven't even
>> attempted getting it to work.  But since I ran across the information I
>> wanted to pass it on to you.
>>
>> 
> Thanks for the info - I'll try it out and report back.
>
> Fritz
>
>   
Fritz,

If you want to have the sound of PA in Jack, go on this PPA and add it
in Lucid in Synaptic :
https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/lucid/

Install the package "pulse-jack" and after jack is started, launch it in
terminal. You can add it in the qjackctl (Jack Control) setup so that it
is auto-started after jackd or jackdmp is started.

For my use (since Lucid Beta) it works perfectly: all non-jack
applications (including Firefox/flashplayers) go on my RME hdsp sound
card. And the integrated sound card of the mother board is now disabled.
Great stuff!

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Re: Kernels for low latency/real time environments

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Alessio,

Ok, it is for Lucid only. I will test that as soon as possible, I first
have to install a build on my workstation. I'll let you know.

Toine



Alessio Igor Bogani a écrit :
> Antoine,
>
> 2010/3/14 tto...@ttoine.net :
> [...]
>   
>>> Do you have incurred in some problems?
>>>
>>>   
>> I can't see the header package for the -lowlatency kernel... Or perhaps
>> 
>
> Go to https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa/+packages and click
> at bottom of the page on "linux - 2.6.32-16.25" you should be able to
> see all lowlatency packages (headers and images).
>
> In any case if you add my PPA
> (https://launchpad.net/+help/soyuz/ppa-sources-list.html) and execute
> from command-line (Gnome Terminal or KDE Konsole) this command "sudo
> apt-get install linux-lowlatency linux-headers-lowlatency" you shoud
> be able to install low latency kernel and it's headers.
>
> Please let me know.
>
> Ciao,
> Alessio
>
>   
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Re: Kernels for low latency/real time environments

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Alessio,

> I provide also headers packages for both -lowlatency and -realtime
> kernels but I don't tested these yet.
> AFAIK PPA should be also provide source packages.
>
> Do you have incurred in some problems?
>   
I can't see the header package for the -lowlatency kernel... Or perhaps
I just have to install the -generic headers ?
> Ciao,
> Alessio
>
>   
Best regards,

Antoine

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Re: Kernels for low latency/real time environments

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Alessio,

Is it possible to make trials with -headers packages ? Can you provide
some sources if it is not in your ppa ?

Toine



Alessio Igor Bogani a écrit :
> Hi All,
>
> For those who are interested I have placed two new kernels
> (-lowlatency and -realtime) into my PPA:
> https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa
>
> The -lowlatency kernel contains a more aggressive configuration to
> reduce latency than the -preempt one. But like -preempt it doesn't
> contain any code changes (so both start from the same -generic source
> tree).
>
> The -realtime kernel contains the upstream version of PREEMPT_RT
> patchset applied to a vanilla Linux kernel. The Ubuntu Archive already
> provides the linux-rt package but it uses the Karmic source tree as
> base for PREEMPT_RT patchset.
>
> The PPA also contains meta-packages so that after you have added PPA
> into your Ubuntu system a simple "sudo apt-get install linux-realtime"
> or "sudo apt-get install linux-lowlatency" will install what you need.
> There is also a recent copy of rt-tests for evaluation and comparison
> of all kernels and to better identify which meets your needs.
>
> I suggest following these simple rules:
>
> *) if you don't need a low latency system use -generic kernel
> *) If you need a low latency system please use -preempt kernel as a
> first choice (this reduces latency but doesn't sacrifice power saving
> features) from the Ubuntu archives directly from Ubuntu Kernel Team
> *) If you have an i386 system or -preempt isn't enough for your needs
> you should try the -lowlatency kernel present in my above-mentioned
> PPA.
> *) If -lowlatency also isn't enough you should try the -realtime
> kernel (like -lowlatency it is available through my PPA)
>
> Feel free to get in touch with me if you find these useful.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Ciao,
> Alessio
>
>   

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Re: Low latency kernel in Lucid

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Alessio,

It is ok for the delay, I am sure you have plenty of things to do, and
not only kernel work, of course. I will try to test that this evening if
possible, but be sure that I provide you some feedback. Thanks for your
work.

Toine



Alessio Igor Bogani a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> 2010/2/7 tto...@ttoine.net :
> [...]
>   
>> As soon as you can provide a way to test closed source, I could report
>> using a RME hdsp Multiface II sound card of my workstation.
>> 
>
> Antoine excuse me for long delay in reply.
>
> In this PPA you can find -headers packages necessary for enable closed 
> drivers:
> https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa/+packages
>
> Thanks a lot for you feedback!
>
> Ciao,
> Alessio
>
>   

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Re: Low latency kernel in Lucid

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Alessio,

At this time I am using a nVidia graphic card on my workstation and
would have a possibility to test it with the -lowlatency, with the
closed driver. On the laptop I have an Intel chipset so no need of
headers, and it works perfect with both integrated intel hda chipset or
firewire sound card (ffado), around 3ms of latency, and it is an old
centrino cpu!

As soon as you can provide a way to test closed source, I could report
using a RME hdsp Multiface II sound card of my workstation.

Toine



Alessio Igor Bogani a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> 2010/2/6 tto...@ttoine.net :
> [...]
>   
>>> 1) Test the kernel ( http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~abogani/
>>> <http://kernel.ubuntu.com/%7Eabogani/> ) and write an email
>>> to kernel-t...@lists.ubuntu.com <mailto:kernel-t...@lists.ubuntu.com>
>>> with your comments (I hope that they are enthusiastic) (the packages
>>> will work on both karmic and lucid, however closed source graphics
>>> drivers will not be available)
>>>   
>
>   
>> I am testing it under two configurations with Karmic i386: Sony Vaio
>> Centrino laptop, and AMD dual core workstation.
>> 
>
> First of all, thank you very much for your help in testing -lowlatency kernel.
>
>   
>> It is quite stable (I have no problem even at very low latency),
>> real time with jack works like with -rt kernel.
>> 
>
> Happy to hear it!
>
>   
>> Could it be possible to have a -headers for this
>> kernel, in order to test the closed graphic drivers, before to report to
>> kernel team ?
>> 
>
> Generally choice about kernel don't should be conditioned by closed drivers.
> In any case which closed drivers do you want test?
>
>
> Ciao,
> Alessio
>
>   

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Re: Low latency kernel in Lucid

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Jussi Schultink a écrit :
> Hi all, I received the following from Alessio regarding the Low
> latency kernel. Please test and write to the kernel team so we can
> have this in lucid and make ubuntu studio better!
>
>
> -
> I would like to remind you how large the advantages are to have a
> -lowlatency kernel flavour.
>
> Providing a lowlatency kernel allows us to have a kernel that is
> _very_ stable (like -generic because it is the same code without
> modifications and
> only with a different configuration) but with very good performance
> out of the box.
> Moreover, to have it in the form of a kernel flavour means that it
> keeps up to date with the -generic kernel without our intervention.
> In this way we can avoid recomending kernel-rt to most of our users
> thus avoid
> it's bugs and its continual trailing version of the generic kernel.
>
>
> What you can do for help?
>
> 1) Test the kernel ( http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~abogani/
>  ) and write an email
> to kernel-t...@lists.ubuntu.com 
> with your comments (I hope that they are enthusiastic) (the packages
> will work on both karmic and lucid, however closed source graphics
> drivers will not be available)
> 2) Write to email to the above requesting this kernel flavour
> 3) Write directly to Tim Gardner endorsing it
>
>
> In short we could also use it as default kernel!
>
> P.s.
> If you need of some background:
>
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2010-January/008385.html
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2010-January/008570.html
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2010-February/008587.html
>
I am testing it under two configurations with Karmic i386: Sony Vaio
Centrino laptop, and AMD dual core workstation. It is quite stable (I
have no problem even at very low latency), real time with jack works
like with -rt kernel. Could it be possible to have a -headers for this
kernel, in order to test the closed graphic drivers, before to report to
kernel team ?

Toine

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Re: Studio's evolution. Beyond the Lynx.

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Cory K. a écrit :
> Hi all.
>
>  Eric volunteered to revamp the website for Lucid. Although I 
> assumed (or planned in my head) it would be a simple UI change, he 
> suggested some changes that would make us more a hub for the creative 
> community. The more and more I think about this I think it is our next 
> big step.
>
>  At the project's inception, we strived to stay a part of the Ubuntu 
> community. Use the same forums, wiki and resources. But, I think this 
> might have cost us building our own community.
>
>
>  I propose we part with some of the resources we currently use and 
> host our own. Website, wiki, whatever. I wanna brainstorm about this. 
> Throw it all out there. Eric started a page. 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp
>
>  I wanna get some sorta "official sounding" announcement we can 
> broadcast in different spots to get as many folks involved as we can 
> with ideas.
>
>
> -Cory K.
>
>   
Good idea! Imho, this should have been done from the beginning. It will
dramatically help Ubuntu Studio community (user, packagers, etc...)
growing up and having its own identity.

Toine

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Re: UbuntuStudio / Bright Theme

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Luis de Bethencourt a écrit :
> On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 5:32 AM, Hans Baier  wrote:
>   
>> Hi,
>>
>> I created a bright Variant of the UbuntuStudio theme.
>> By means of the brighter colors it has a "brushed metal"
>> kind of feel:
>>
>> http://imagebin.org/69621
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Hans
>> 
>
>
> Hello Hans,
>
> I think the idea and the progress are awesome. It looks like a blend
> between Ubuntu Studio theme and clearlooks right now.
>
> Having the window title design the same as in the Ubuntu Studio theme
> would be better though, with the circles instead of the squared
> buttons with the icons.
>
> But as I said in the IRC channel it is Cory's decision to make :)
>
> Luis
>
>   
Hans,

Where can we get this theme to test it ? Can you share it on Gnome Look
or something like that ?

Toine

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Re: Three problems

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Alessio,

I am using linux-rt of Karmic Beta with Ati restricted driver from the
day of release of Ubuntu Karmic Beta, and have no problem at all with it.

Toine

Alessio Igor Bogani a écrit :
> Hi All,
>
> Apologize for my very bad English but 1) I can't ever speak/write
> English correctly 2) It is very late in Italy and I'm very tired.
>
> Unfortunately this is a *urgent* message so I can't refer.
>
> Meanwhile I'm working on Bug #452772 I incur in three problems about linux-rt:
>
> #1 When the closed video drivers are just updated (in my case after a
> "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade -y") they don't be
> built against linux-rt automatically (but it is works on -generic).
>
> #2 When system get updates that require initrd image rebuild only
> -generic being rebuilt.
>
> Problems #1 and #2 are not much serious but #3 is a lot!
>
> #3 On my machine with 14-generic and 9-rt installed I can boot
> 14-generic only if I remove 9-rt (!!!).
> I obtain: "udevadm trigger is not permitted while udev is
> unconfigured". Please note that fix should be already available for it
> since 15 Oct so the problem _is_ linux-rt installed.
>
> I'm starting to suspect that we have a little insidious bug in
> packaging. Anyone else could confirm or not these problems?
>
> Hope in fast feedback.
>
> Ciao,
> Alessio
>
>   

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Re: Jack inclusion in Main

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Eric Hedekar a écrit :
> In Bug #416778 ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/416778 ) Loïc Minier
> has requested further public discussion on the subject of Jack Audio
> Server http://jackaudio.org/ being included in the Main repositories. 
> I was told this list would be the best place for that discussion.  I
> am also CCing the ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
>  because the Ubuntu
> Studio team has been the driving force behind this inclusion request
> and are extremely knowledgeable in regards to JACK.
>
> Here are a couple of my thoughts on the matter as to why Jack should
> be included in Main.
> - Many bugs have been filed against various audio servers currently in
> Main (xine, alsa, portaudio, pulseaudio) requesting that the JACK
> bridge/plugin/output/etc... be turned on or compiled into the package
> - this is not possible without the inclusion of Jack in Main.  Bugs
> #152487, #84900, #109659, and #360590 (this may not be a complete
> list, and duplicates of most of these have been filed).
> - The libffado drivers for firewire soundcards ( http://www.ffado.org
> ) are only supported by the Jack driver.  This makes these common,
> pro, semi-pro, and hobbyist audio cards inaccessible for most
> applications without the previous audio server bridges/plugins/outputs
> to jack available.  Owners of these cards must recompile major audio
> drivers in order to get basic Ubuntu sound.
> - Jack is an audio server designed specifically for professional
> reliable audio signals.  This is not a duplicate server clogging up
> the "audio mess", which some people believe exists in Linux, it is a
> specialty tool for musicians, audio engineers, and anyone using Linux
> for professional audio. (In-fact if anything, allowing the
> aforementioned bugs to get fixed would clean up a large chunk of the
> "audio mess" which some believe exists.  It would at least stop a
> large segment of people from griping so loudly about and attempting to
> remove PulseAudio.)
>
> Please voice your opinion on the matter.
> -Eric Hedekar
>

I agree with Eric. Inclusion of Jack in main will solve a lot of problem
with audio applications, sound servers, etc... Missing Jack in main is a
great problem too for packagers.

Toine

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Re: usb audio

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Bruse,

The problem is well known. For Asmo and others, the Tascam US-122 and
the US-122L don't use the same chipset, although they look exactly the
same. You can find a lot of stuff for the US-122, but nothing working
for the US-122L. The problem is known to be solved by the latest
alsa-driver in combination with the latest kernel 2.6.29. The developper
of the alsa driver for the US-122L explain that it needs the latest USB
driver, allowing full speed on USB2. He developed both the alsa-driver
and the USB kernel patch, wich seems to be included in 2.6.29.

So, trials have to be made once it will be available in a repo. I know a
sound engineer who own this soundcard in my area. We already made some
trials with the kernel in the Ubuntu Studio devel PPA (Jaunty testing
only). But we are not successful at the moment. I suspect a problem with
firmwares (medibuntu) or something like that. As soon as I can get more
time (I have a baby since one month) I'll try to compile latest alsa
packages and a rt kernel from sources. And let you know what is possible
to do or not.

Of course, Bruce, if you can do that and report some feedback, it would
be great.

Toine



Asmo Koskinen a écrit :
> bruce kirjoitti:
>
>   
>> Hi I have the TASCAM US-122L USB.I am using ubuntu studio 9.04.
>> 
>
> There is an old howto for Dapper:
>
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/TASCAM_US-122
>
> I think problem is how to get firmware to work. That seems almost 
> impossible with L...
>
> "IMPORTANT: Tascam US-122 and US-122L are NOT the same"
> http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/Tascam_US-122
>
> http://www.pps.jussieu.fr/~smimram/tascam/
>
> Best Regards Asmo Koskinen.
>
>   

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Re: Jaunty release notes.

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Cory K. a écrit :
> tto...@ttoine.net wrote:
>   
>> Cory K. a écrit :
>>   
>> 
>>> The Jaunty release notes should be started soon.
>>>
>>> We can use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/WorkingReleaseNotes as a
>>> base.
>>> 
>>>   
>> Do you need a french translator? Or you already have one?
>>   
>> 
>
> Once we have something to translate, whomever gets a translation sent in
> 1st will be used.
>
>
> -Cory K.
>
>
>   
You will find enclosed a preview of the french translation. Keep me
informed via the mailing list when the definitive english version of the
release note is on the wiki.

Toine
Ubuntu Studio Jaunty 9.04

Ubuntu Studio est une version d'Ubuntu orientée pour l'édition et la 
création multimedia, construite pour les amateurs et les professionnels de 
l'audio, de la video et du graphisme sous GNU/Linux.

L'équipe d'Ubuntu Studio est très contente de sa cinquième publication : 
Jaunty 9.04, disponible... De nombreuses améliorations ont été 
implémentées dans cette version, en voici les plus remarquables.

Nouvelles applications ajoutées:
* Pilotes de cartes son firewire FFADO
* Plugin audio Calf
* LMMS (mis à jour et inclus dans les meta-paquets) 

Fonctionnalités/Corrections/Améliorations:
* Jack Audio Connection Kit mis à jour en version 0.116.1 (une 
amélioraton majeure)
* Noyau (kernel) 2.6.28-3-rt lourdement testé

Vous devriez trouver cette version la meilleure qui soit, et nous attendons vos 
commentaires et retours. Nous invitons également les utilisateurs de tout 
niveau d'expertise à rejoindre la communauté d'Ubuntu Studio, pour documenter 
cette version, et travailler à la prochaine.

Nous espérons que vous apprécierez.
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Re: Jaunty release notes.

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Cory K. a écrit :
> The Jaunty release notes should be started soon.
>
> We can use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/WorkingReleaseNotes as a
> base.
>
>
> -Cory K.
>
>   
Do you need a french translator? Or you already have one?

Toine

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Re: Jaunty beta + RT + Jackd + Ardour, it works ;-D

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Cory K. a écrit :
> laurent.bellegarde wrote:
>   
>> Hi again,
>>
>> i've done a new reboot, compared hardy's limits.conf to jaunty'one, and so
>>
>> hardy'one working :
>>
>>
>> @audio  -   rtprio  99
>>
>> @audio - memlock 999844
>>
>> jaunty'one working but if i launch with sudo
>>
>> @audio - memlock 770240
>> @audio - rtprio 99
>> @audio - nice -10
>>
>> so I check ubuntustudio controls, everything is ok, the limits.conf is 
>> like the controls in GUI.
>>
>> then i have a look to laurent un user, and see that in groups, there was 
>> no audio group. I add one, and tick laurent and root as members of this 
>> group, i've done a new reboot, and now i can launch qjackctl + ardour on 
>> RT without any xruns at 2,9ms latency !!!
>>
>> what is surprising is that in hardy, i check audio group presence, 
>> there's none !!! but qjackctl is available as none root ???
>> But now, I understand why in hardy, changing the size of allowed memory 
>> change nothing face to the ardour message which was telling me there was 
>> a limit in my system...that's normal, because laurent is not in an audio 
>> group, so limits.conf can't work...
>>
>> So I can't explain why in same condition hardy settings are working and 
>> why jaunty not, but after adding an audio group, and tick your account 
>> user in it, a reboot, it works perfectly...
>>
>> RT kernel is ok for stable release the 23 of april...
>> 
>
> Ok. Thanx for the info. Maybe something can be done before Jaunty
> releases. Luke can say definitively.
>
>
> -Cory K.
>
>
>   
Since Intrepid, there's no "audio" group created by default. It is the
same for Jaunty. Perhaps it could be a tweak to add the configuration
script of Ubuntu Studio.

Toine

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Jaunty Beta

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Hi guys,

I am testing the Jaunty beta, and as always, I am doing several trials
with different souncards, with jack, ffado, etc...

I experience two strange things:
 - First, I can run jackd in rt mode with the generic jaunty kernel, and
with the rt kernel too;
 - Second, whatever kernel I use, when I am trying to use network
(ethernet) while I am listening music jackd running, the workstation
freeze (X, cursor, sound, everything) and I have to reset or shutdown it
by hand.

I don't know what the problem can be, and before reporting a bug on
launchpad, I would like to have your opinion, and some other trials you
want me to test. Just to say, it can not be a problem with kernell and
nvidia driver, because I don't use the restricted driver.

Toine

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Re: Jaunty -RT testing

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Cory,

I tried to download it to test it this week-end, but the link provided
is broken. Do you have any other way to get an iso ?

Toine


Cory K. a écrit :
> As of now everything has hit the archive to use -RT. Please test on
> whatever kind of system you have.
>
> I currently have -RT running on 32/64bit w/nVidia and Intel GFX. Any
> feedback is great, especially from ATI users.
>
>
> -Cory K.
>
>   

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Re: "LTS overlay" PPA

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Good idea...

Toine


>   

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Re: problems installing on notebook (ubuntustudio-8.10-alternate-i386.iso)

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Andrew Hunter a écrit :
> On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:48 PM,   wrote:
>   
>> I have just tried to install ubuntu studio from DVD
>> (ubuntustudio-8.10-alternate-i386.iso) on my notebook (Toshiba M30X 122)
>> sadly it didn't quite work
>> I could boot to the menu but when I hit install-entry the screen turned
>> and stayed black soon after some DOS-like cursor-blinking
>> any ideas why this happens?
>> does ubuntu studio in general or this version have particular problems
>> with notebooks?
>> the installation worked well though on my desktop-pc (using the same DVD)
>> any help is very much appreciated
>> 
>
> This is most likely a hardware bug specific to your laptop. Have you
> tried regular ubuntu? The ubuntu studio packages can be added there.
>
> Also in future, this kind of request belongs on the -users list.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
>
>   

Try typing f6 for boot options and try adding "noapic nolapic"

And of course, don't forget the traditional forums.

Toine

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Re: Meeting on Sunday Nov. 8th?

[tto...@ttoine.net]

Luke Yelavich a écrit :
> On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 08:14:41AM EST, Andrew Hunter wrote:
>   
>>> Time is fine for me.
>>>
>>> I don't think we should do anything revolutionary but, I was thinking of
>>> getting nedco's JACK2 work in ASAP so as to get proper testing. If that
>>> goes well, maybe it can be shipped.
>>>   
>> Jack2 would be nice; what would be nicer would be the new firewire
>> stack but I am realizing that is a huge undertaking. I have started to
>> spec out the dependencies [1] that would allow us to eventually get
>> rid of having to allow users to enable promiscuous raw1394
>> permissions.
>> 
>
> I second this. Its early in the cycle, and if we start soon, we can get 
> things transitioned and tested well by users.
>
> Luke
>   

In order to have maximum user testing, would it be possible to backport
it in Intrepid or Hardy? If it is not possible at all, please forget
this question.

Toine

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