Re: [ubuntu-uk] Government report warns about Microsoft lock-in
Thanks - you've been helpful. I'll get on there and make myself known On Sun, 2007-01-14 at 21:03 +, Andy Trevor wrote: > Toby Smithe wrote: > > On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 10:17 +, Andy Trevor wrote: > > > > > Toby Smithe wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Phil, > > > > > > > > I am all too keen to work with Becta. However, I feel that they should > > > > at least allow me the simple courtesy of a hard-earned reply. > > > > > > > > > > > Guys there is already channel set up with Becta. Ian Lynch from > > > SchoolForge UK meets with them on a regular basis. > > > > > > > This is good to hear. What has been achieved so far through this > > relationship? > > > The profile of OSS has been raised but it is a case of slowly prodding > away. > > Becta are aware of the benefits of using OSS but these things take > time. > > > > > > > Becta asked for a single point of contact to the OSS community to come > > > from OSC or Schoolforge UK. Ian was chosen due to his depth of > > > knowledge in this area. > > > > > > > I feel that a single point, whilst convenient, is fallible. The > > community is so vast and varied. No matter how deep someone's knowledge > > is, they cannot know everything. > > > > The single point of contact was at the request of Becta. > > I agree that all interests cannot be covered by one man, but that is > what they wanted. > > Ian is a very knowledgeable man and has been in the education and OSS > game for a long long time. > > For the moment I think the best idea is to get signed up on the > Schoolforge mailing list and get involved with things that way. > > > > > Co ordinating efforts through the Schoolforge mailing list may be the > > > best option. > > > > > > > On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 21:44 +, Phil Bull wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Toby, > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 20:16 +, Toby Smithe wrote: > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been quite busy on the fight for free software for schools, > > > > > > and > > > > > > am publishing any developments on that front at > > > > > > http://tibsplace.co.uk/blog/index.php/category/free-software > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't really trust BECTA. They didn't reply to my completely > > > > > > serious > > > > > > e-mail, so I just assume they are been pressurised into preferring > > > > > > proprietary software. They could just have issued this statement to > > > > > > make > > > > > > us content. I will again write to them, but until I receive a > > > > > > reply, I > > > > > > have no idea why I should think they are trustworthy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been following some of your efforts, and it does seem as though > > > > > you've just been sent stock responses by their PR department. This is > > > > > unfortunate considering the effort you've obviously put into this, but > > > > > it's something we need to confront. > > > > > > > > > > I think entering into a dialogue with BECTA will be necessary as a > > > > > gateway to the LEAs (Local Education Authorities). A great deal of IT > > > > > policy-making in schools rests with the LEAs, I believe, even if some > > > > > schools choose not to follow their recommendations. FOSS-sympathetic > > > > > LEAs would be able to provide resources and support on a level which > > > > > could make the adoption of FOSS seem much more practical for a great > > > > > deal of schools. > > > > > > > > > > Please take a look at this Becta press release [1], especially the > > > > > three > > > > > reports in the 'Notes to Editors' section. I found them very > > > > > enlightening; the biggest problem the schools studied seemed to come > > > > > up > > > > > against was a lack of support from the LEA. Some LEAs even seemed to > > > > > actively discourage open-source adoption: > > > > > > > > > > "The LEA provides no ICT support to the school, and some animosity has > > > > > grown over the issue of the school using OSS." [2] > > > > > > > > > > By working with Becta, we could hopefully open a useful communication > > > > > channel with the LEAs. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > [1] - http://www.becta.org.uk/corporate/press_out.cfm?id=4681 > > > > > [2] - Open Source Software in Schools: A case study report [1] (Page > > > > > 6, > > > > > Case Study 3, 'ICT in the school') > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Andy Trevor > > > Technical Director > > > Cutter Project Limited > > > 18 Lynn Rd, Ely > > > Cambs, CB6 1DA > > > Phone: 08700683356 > > > Mobile: 07840 988311 > > > http://www.cutterproject.co.uk > > > --- > > > Ubuntu Partners > > > > > > > > > -- > > > This message has been scanned for viruses and > > > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > > > believed to be clean. > > > > > > -- > Andy Trevor > Technical Director > Cutter
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Government report warns about Microsoft lock-in
Title: signature Toby Smithe wrote: On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 10:17 +, Andy Trevor wrote: Toby Smithe wrote: Hi Phil, I am all too keen to work with Becta. However, I feel that they should at least allow me the simple courtesy of a hard-earned reply. Guys there is already channel set up with Becta. Ian Lynch from SchoolForge UK meets with them on a regular basis. This is good to hear. What has been achieved so far through this relationship? The profile of OSS has been raised but it is a case of slowly prodding away. Becta are aware of the benefits of using OSS but these things take time. Becta asked for a single point of contact to the OSS community to come from OSC or Schoolforge UK. Ian was chosen due to his depth of knowledge in this area. I feel that a single point, whilst convenient, is fallible. The community is so vast and varied. No matter how deep someone's knowledge is, they cannot know everything. The single point of contact was at the request of Becta. I agree that all interests cannot be covered by one man, but that is what they wanted. Ian is a very knowledgeable man and has been in the education and OSS game for a long long time. For the moment I think the best idea is to get signed up on the Schoolforge mailing list and get involved with things that way. Co ordinating efforts through the Schoolforge mailing list may be the best option. On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 21:44 +, Phil Bull wrote: Hi Toby, On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 20:16 +, Toby Smithe wrote: [...] I have been quite busy on the fight for free software for schools, and am publishing any developments on that front at http://tibsplace.co.uk/blog/index.php/category/free-software I don't really trust BECTA. They didn't reply to my completely serious e-mail, so I just assume they are been pressurised into preferring proprietary software. They could just have issued this statement to make us content. I will again write to them, but until I receive a reply, I have no idea why I should think they are trustworthy. I've been following some of your efforts, and it does seem as though you've just been sent stock responses by their PR department. This is unfortunate considering the effort you've obviously put into this, but it's something we need to confront. I think entering into a dialogue with BECTA will be necessary as a gateway to the LEAs (Local Education Authorities). A great deal of IT policy-making in schools rests with the LEAs, I believe, even if some schools choose not to follow their recommendations. FOSS-sympathetic LEAs would be able to provide resources and support on a level which could make the adoption of FOSS seem much more practical for a great deal of schools. Please take a look at this Becta press release [1], especially the three reports in the 'Notes to Editors' section. I found them very enlightening; the biggest problem the schools studied seemed to come up against was a lack of support from the LEA. Some LEAs even seemed to actively discourage open-source adoption: "The LEA provides no ICT support to the school, and some animosity has grown over the issue of the school using OSS." [2] By working with Becta, we could hopefully open a useful communication channel with the LEAs. Thanks, Phil [1] - http://www.becta.org.uk/corporate/press_out.cfm?id=4681 [2] - Open Source Software in Schools: A case study report [1] (Page 6, Case Study 3, 'ICT in the school') -- Andy Trevor Technical Director Cutter Project Limited 18 Lynn Rd, Ely Cambs, CB6 1DA Phone: 08700683356 Mobile: 07840 988311 http://www.cutterproject.co.uk --- Ubuntu Partners -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- Andy Trevor Technical Director Cutter Project Limited 18 Lynn Rd, Ely Cambs, CB6 1DA Phone: 08700683356 Mobile: 07840 988311 http://www.cutterproject.co.uk --- -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Government report warns about Microsoft lock-in
On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 10:17 +, Andy Trevor wrote: > Toby Smithe wrote: > > Hi Phil, > > > > I am all too keen to work with Becta. However, I feel that they should > > at least allow me the simple courtesy of a hard-earned reply. > > > > Guys there is already channel set up with Becta. Ian Lynch from > SchoolForge UK meets with them on a regular basis. This is good to hear. What has been achieved so far through this relationship? > Becta asked for a single point of contact to the OSS community to come > from OSC or Schoolforge UK. Ian was chosen due to his depth of > knowledge in this area. I feel that a single point, whilst convenient, is fallible. The community is so vast and varied. No matter how deep someone's knowledge is, they cannot know everything. > Co ordinating efforts through the Schoolforge mailing list may be the > best option. > > On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 21:44 +, Phil Bull wrote: > > > > > Hi Toby, > > > > > > On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 20:16 +, Toby Smithe wrote: > > > [...] > > > > > > > I have been quite busy on the fight for free software for schools, and > > > > am publishing any developments on that front at > > > > http://tibsplace.co.uk/blog/index.php/category/free-software > > > > > > > > I don't really trust BECTA. They didn't reply to my completely serious > > > > e-mail, so I just assume they are been pressurised into preferring > > > > proprietary software. They could just have issued this statement to make > > > > us content. I will again write to them, but until I receive a reply, I > > > > have no idea why I should think they are trustworthy. > > > > > > > I've been following some of your efforts, and it does seem as though > > > you've just been sent stock responses by their PR department. This is > > > unfortunate considering the effort you've obviously put into this, but > > > it's something we need to confront. > > > > > > I think entering into a dialogue with BECTA will be necessary as a > > > gateway to the LEAs (Local Education Authorities). A great deal of IT > > > policy-making in schools rests with the LEAs, I believe, even if some > > > schools choose not to follow their recommendations. FOSS-sympathetic > > > LEAs would be able to provide resources and support on a level which > > > could make the adoption of FOSS seem much more practical for a great > > > deal of schools. > > > > > > Please take a look at this Becta press release [1], especially the three > > > reports in the 'Notes to Editors' section. I found them very > > > enlightening; the biggest problem the schools studied seemed to come up > > > against was a lack of support from the LEA. Some LEAs even seemed to > > > actively discourage open-source adoption: > > > > > > "The LEA provides no ICT support to the school, and some animosity has > > > grown over the issue of the school using OSS." [2] > > > > > > By working with Becta, we could hopefully open a useful communication > > > channel with the LEAs. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > [1] - http://www.becta.org.uk/corporate/press_out.cfm?id=4681 > > > [2] - Open Source Software in Schools: A case study report [1] (Page 6, > > > Case Study 3, 'ICT in the school') > > > > > > > > > -- > Andy Trevor > Technical Director > Cutter Project Limited > 18 Lynn Rd, Ely > Cambs, CB6 1DA > Phone: 08700683356 > Mobile: 07840 988311 > http://www.cutterproject.co.uk > --- > Ubuntu Partners > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. -- Help me get to Venezuela! http://tibsplace.co.uk/venezuela -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Government report warns about Microsoft lock-in
Toby Smithe wrote: Hi Phil, I am all too keen to work with Becta. However, I feel that they should at least allow me the simple courtesy of a hard-earned reply. Guys there is already channel set up with Becta. Ian Lynch from SchoolForge UK meets with them on a regular basis. Becta asked for a single point of contact to the OSS community to come from OSC or Schoolforge UK. Ian was chosen due to his depth of knowledge in this area. Co ordinating efforts through the Schoolforge mailing list may be the best option. On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 21:44 +, Phil Bull wrote: Hi Toby, On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 20:16 +, Toby Smithe wrote: [...] I have been quite busy on the fight for free software for schools, and am publishing any developments on that front at http://tibsplace.co.uk/blog/index.php/category/free-software I don't really trust BECTA. They didn't reply to my completely serious e-mail, so I just assume they are been pressurised into preferring proprietary software. They could just have issued this statement to make us content. I will again write to them, but until I receive a reply, I have no idea why I should think they are trustworthy. I've been following some of your efforts, and it does seem as though you've just been sent stock responses by their PR department. This is unfortunate considering the effort you've obviously put into this, but it's something we need to confront. I think entering into a dialogue with BECTA will be necessary as a gateway to the LEAs (Local Education Authorities). A great deal of IT policy-making in schools rests with the LEAs, I believe, even if some schools choose not to follow their recommendations. FOSS-sympathetic LEAs would be able to provide resources and support on a level which could make the adoption of FOSS seem much more practical for a great deal of schools. Please take a look at this Becta press release [1], especially the three reports in the 'Notes to Editors' section. I found them very enlightening; the biggest problem the schools studied seemed to come up against was a lack of support from the LEA. Some LEAs even seemed to actively discourage open-source adoption: "The LEA provides no ICT support to the school, and some animosity has grown over the issue of the school using OSS." [2] By working with Becta, we could hopefully open a useful communication channel with the LEAs. Thanks, Phil [1] - http://www.becta.org.uk/corporate/press_out.cfm?id=4681 [2] - Open Source Software in Schools: A case study report [1] (Page 6, Case Study 3, 'ICT in the school') -- signature Andy Trevor Technical Director Cutter Project Limited 18 Lynn Rd, Ely Cambs, CB6 1DA Phone: 08700683356 Mobile: 07840 988311 http://www.cutterproject.co.uk --- -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Government report warns about Microsoft lock-in
Hi Phil, I am all too keen to work with Becta. However, I feel that they should at least allow me the simple courtesy of a hard-earned reply. On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 21:44 +, Phil Bull wrote: > Hi Toby, > > On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 20:16 +, Toby Smithe wrote: > [...] > > I have been quite busy on the fight for free software for schools, and > > am publishing any developments on that front at > > http://tibsplace.co.uk/blog/index.php/category/free-software > > > > I don't really trust BECTA. They didn't reply to my completely serious > > e-mail, so I just assume they are been pressurised into preferring > > proprietary software. They could just have issued this statement to make > > us content. I will again write to them, but until I receive a reply, I > > have no idea why I should think they are trustworthy. > > I've been following some of your efforts, and it does seem as though > you've just been sent stock responses by their PR department. This is > unfortunate considering the effort you've obviously put into this, but > it's something we need to confront. > > I think entering into a dialogue with BECTA will be necessary as a > gateway to the LEAs (Local Education Authorities). A great deal of IT > policy-making in schools rests with the LEAs, I believe, even if some > schools choose not to follow their recommendations. FOSS-sympathetic > LEAs would be able to provide resources and support on a level which > could make the adoption of FOSS seem much more practical for a great > deal of schools. > > Please take a look at this Becta press release [1], especially the three > reports in the 'Notes to Editors' section. I found them very > enlightening; the biggest problem the schools studied seemed to come up > against was a lack of support from the LEA. Some LEAs even seemed to > actively discourage open-source adoption: > > "The LEA provides no ICT support to the school, and some animosity has > grown over the issue of the school using OSS." [2] > > By working with Becta, we could hopefully open a useful communication > channel with the LEAs. > > Thanks, > > Phil > > [1] - http://www.becta.org.uk/corporate/press_out.cfm?id=4681 > [2] - Open Source Software in Schools: A case study report [1] (Page 6, > Case Study 3, 'ICT in the school') > -- Help me get to Venezuela! http://tibsplace.co.uk/venezuela -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Government report warns about Microsoft lock-in
Hi Toby, On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 20:16 +, Toby Smithe wrote: [...] > I have been quite busy on the fight for free software for schools, and > am publishing any developments on that front at > http://tibsplace.co.uk/blog/index.php/category/free-software > > I don't really trust BECTA. They didn't reply to my completely serious > e-mail, so I just assume they are been pressurised into preferring > proprietary software. They could just have issued this statement to make > us content. I will again write to them, but until I receive a reply, I > have no idea why I should think they are trustworthy. I've been following some of your efforts, and it does seem as though you've just been sent stock responses by their PR department. This is unfortunate considering the effort you've obviously put into this, but it's something we need to confront. I think entering into a dialogue with BECTA will be necessary as a gateway to the LEAs (Local Education Authorities). A great deal of IT policy-making in schools rests with the LEAs, I believe, even if some schools choose not to follow their recommendations. FOSS-sympathetic LEAs would be able to provide resources and support on a level which could make the adoption of FOSS seem much more practical for a great deal of schools. Please take a look at this Becta press release [1], especially the three reports in the 'Notes to Editors' section. I found them very enlightening; the biggest problem the schools studied seemed to come up against was a lack of support from the LEA. Some LEAs even seemed to actively discourage open-source adoption: "The LEA provides no ICT support to the school, and some animosity has grown over the issue of the school using OSS." [2] By working with Becta, we could hopefully open a useful communication channel with the LEAs. Thanks, Phil [1] - http://www.becta.org.uk/corporate/press_out.cfm?id=4681 [2] - Open Source Software in Schools: A case study report [1] (Page 6, Case Study 3, 'ICT in the school') -- Phil Bull http://www.launchpad.net/people/philbull -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Government report warns about Microsoft lock-in
On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 12:41 +, Phil Bull wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 11:14 +, gord wrote: > > Snippet: > > "UK schools and colleges that have signed up to Microsoft Corp's > > academic licensing programs face the 'significant potential' of being > > locked in to the company's software, according to an interim review by > > the UK government agency responsible for technology in education. > > > > The British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta) > > report also states that most establishments surveyed do not believe that > > Microsoft's licensing agreements provide value for money, while a > > separate review has recommended against the deployment of Vista and > > Office 2007. > > > > Last week Becta signed a 12-month extension to its Memorandum of > > Understanding with Microsoft that enables schools to negotiate cheaper > > software deals, but many schools will not be taking advantage of it if > > they follow Becta's advice." > > > > ... > > > > "On the subject of promoting alternatives, Becta noted that the UK's > > Open Source Consortium would like to see Becta proactively promoting > > choice by adopting open source standards" and stated that it will > > "discuss with key stakeholders the practical steps it could take to > > facilitate wider competition in choice in relation to software licensing > > in schools." > > > > Earlier this week the OSC's president, Mark Taylor, criticized Becta for > > entering into the extension with Microsoft despite its own research > > indicating cheaper open source alternatives. "We'd like to congratulate > > Becta for getting a discount on their season ticket for the Titanic," he > > said." > > > > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=BDD20D68-FDBF-4E1C-BA77-BBA4B7CA6061 > > > > > > Does anyone have any idea weather their is something we could do to help > > take advantage of this situation in favour of floss and ubuntu? > > Maybe we should write a letter to BECTA and tell them who we are, what > we offer and how we can help British schools. It would be interesting to > discuss their requirements and ways of providing information and support > to schools to help them move towards adopting open source. If Canonical > could get involved too, that would put more weight behind the whole > thing. > > In addition, we might like to co-operate with the Open Source > Consortium. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I have been quite busy on the fight for free software for schools, and am publishing any developments on that front at http://tibsplace.co.uk/blog/index.php/category/free-software I don't really trust BECTA. They didn't reply to my completely serious e-mail, so I just assume they are been pressurised into preferring proprietary software. They could just have issued this statement to make us content. I will again write to them, but until I receive a reply, I have no idea why I should think they are trustworthy. -- Help me get to Venezuela! http://tibsplace.co.uk/venezuela -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Government report warns about Microsoft lock-in
Hi gord, (CC'd to ubuntu-marketing for comments/ideas) On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 11:14 +, gord wrote: > Snippet: > "UK schools and colleges that have signed up to Microsoft Corp's > academic licensing programs face the 'significant potential' of being > locked in to the company's software, according to an interim review by > the UK government agency responsible for technology in education. > > The British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta) > report also states that most establishments surveyed do not believe that > Microsoft's licensing agreements provide value for money, while a > separate review has recommended against the deployment of Vista and > Office 2007. > > Last week Becta signed a 12-month extension to its Memorandum of > Understanding with Microsoft that enables schools to negotiate cheaper > software deals, but many schools will not be taking advantage of it if > they follow Becta's advice." > > ... > > "On the subject of promoting alternatives, Becta noted that the UK's > Open Source Consortium would like to see Becta proactively promoting > choice by adopting open source standards" and stated that it will > "discuss with key stakeholders the practical steps it could take to > facilitate wider competition in choice in relation to software licensing > in schools." > > Earlier this week the OSC's president, Mark Taylor, criticized Becta for > entering into the extension with Microsoft despite its own research > indicating cheaper open source alternatives. "We'd like to congratulate > Becta for getting a discount on their season ticket for the Titanic," he > said." > > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=BDD20D68-FDBF-4E1C-BA77-BBA4B7CA6061 > > > Does anyone have any idea weather their is something we could do to help > take advantage of this situation in favour of floss and ubuntu? Maybe we should write a letter to BECTA and tell them who we are, what we offer and how we can help British schools. It would be interesting to discuss their requirements and ways of providing information and support to schools to help them move towards adopting open source. If Canonical could get involved too, that would put more weight behind the whole thing. In addition, we might like to co-operate with the Open Source Consortium. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Thanks, Phil -- Phil Bull http://www.launchpad.net/people/philbull -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] Government report warns about Microsoft lock-in
Snippet: "UK schools and colleges that have signed up to Microsoft Corp's academic licensing programs face the 'significant potential' of being locked in to the company's software, according to an interim review by the UK government agency responsible for technology in education. The British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta) report also states that most establishments surveyed do not believe that Microsoft's licensing agreements provide value for money, while a separate review has recommended against the deployment of Vista and Office 2007. Last week Becta signed a 12-month extension to its Memorandum of Understanding with Microsoft that enables schools to negotiate cheaper software deals, but many schools will not be taking advantage of it if they follow Becta's advice." ... "On the subject of promoting alternatives, Becta noted that the UK's Open Source Consortium would like to see Becta proactively promoting choice by adopting open source standards" and stated that it will "discuss with key stakeholders the practical steps it could take to facilitate wider competition in choice in relation to software licensing in schools." Earlier this week the OSC's president, Mark Taylor, criticized Becta for entering into the extension with Microsoft despite its own research indicating cheaper open source alternatives. "We'd like to congratulate Becta for getting a discount on their season ticket for the Titanic," he said." http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=BDD20D68-FDBF-4E1C-BA77-BBA4B7CA6061 Does anyone have any idea weather their is something we could do to help take advantage of this situation in favour of floss and ubuntu? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
