Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
Ah, I see. I thought you were talking about using the other disc that came with the machine, the one without the apps. So I had completely the wrong idea of what you meant. Thanks. On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 16:02 +, Tony Travis wrote: > Rowan Berkeley wrote: > > But I would have lost all my applications if I had done what Tony > > suggested earlier, here is what he said: > > > > "Did you try my advice of booting the kernel originally supplied by LC? > > [...] > > Hello, Rowan. > > No you wouldn't! > > You can boot different kernels under the same 'distribution' of Linux: > > The kernel is more or less independent of the rest of the distribution. > You can update your 'userland' (i.e. all your applications) but still > run the previous Linux kernel.The modules used by a particular kernel > are stored in a folder under /lib for that particular kernel. if you > list them in reverse order like this, you should see the same list you > get in the GRUB menu at boot-time: > > > ls -rl /lib/modules > > total 12 > > drwxr-xr-x 7 root root 4096 2009-02-11 12:28 2.6.24-23-generic > > drwxr-xr-x 7 root root 4096 2008-12-07 15:22 2.6.24-22-generic > > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2009-01-14 10:03 2.6.24-16-generic > > In my case, the oldest kernel is 2.6.24-16-generic. My suggestion was > that you try to boot the Linux kernel that came with the LC product > recovery disks, after having upgraded the rest of the distribution. > > All you have to do is select the kernel at boot time by pressing Esc at > the GRUB prompt (i.e. when you computer boots). Look down the list and > select the oldest kernel at the bottom of the list. Knowing how to do > this might help you solve problems in the future caused by a kernel upgrade. > > Bye, > > Tony. > -- > Dr. A.J.Travis, University of Aberdeen, Rowett Institute of Nutrition > and Health, Greenburn Road, Bucksburn, Aberdeen AB21 9SB, Scotland, UK > tel +44(0)1224 712751, fax +44(0)1224 716687, http://www.rowett.ac.uk > mailto:a.tra...@abdn.ac.uk, http://bioinformatics.rri.sari.ac.uk/~ajt > -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
Rowan Berkeley wrote: > But I would have lost all my applications if I had done what Tony > suggested earlier, here is what he said: > > "Did you try my advice of booting the kernel originally supplied by LC? > [...] Hello, Rowan. No you wouldn't! You can boot different kernels under the same 'distribution' of Linux: The kernel is more or less independent of the rest of the distribution. You can update your 'userland' (i.e. all your applications) but still run the previous Linux kernel.The modules used by a particular kernel are stored in a folder under /lib for that particular kernel. if you list them in reverse order like this, you should see the same list you get in the GRUB menu at boot-time: > ls -rl /lib/modules > total 12 > drwxr-xr-x 7 root root 4096 2009-02-11 12:28 2.6.24-23-generic > drwxr-xr-x 7 root root 4096 2008-12-07 15:22 2.6.24-22-generic > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2009-01-14 10:03 2.6.24-16-generic In my case, the oldest kernel is 2.6.24-16-generic. My suggestion was that you try to boot the Linux kernel that came with the LC product recovery disks, after having upgraded the rest of the distribution. All you have to do is select the kernel at boot time by pressing Esc at the GRUB prompt (i.e. when you computer boots). Look down the list and select the oldest kernel at the bottom of the list. Knowing how to do this might help you solve problems in the future caused by a kernel upgrade. Bye, Tony. -- Dr. A.J.Travis, University of Aberdeen, Rowett Institute of Nutrition and Health, Greenburn Road, Bucksburn, Aberdeen AB21 9SB, Scotland, UK tel +44(0)1224 712751, fax +44(0)1224 716687, http://www.rowett.ac.uk mailto:a.tra...@abdn.ac.uk, http://bioinformatics.rri.sari.ac.uk/~ajt -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
Yes, both discs they supplied contain their non-default driver along with all of the (otherwise standard) kernel components, but the one I used also contains the applications, whereas the other doesn't. On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 12:41 +, Sean Miller wrote: > On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Rowan Berkeley > wrote: > > You see I did ask LinuxCertified about the two discs they supplied, and > > they confirmed that the one I have now used twice has all the > > applications, but the other one has none of them. > > Be very interested to find out what this first disc is... the "other > one" you refer to that you restored from must, surely, also contain > the original kernel? Unless it's only a partial system restore... > > Sean > -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
Michael, I am actually using the new machine right now, with the updater switched off. When this email came, I was just gonna go out and buy a pack of blank CD/R-W's. But since you offer, a ready-burned copy would be very nice. As it happens, everything on this list gets crawled by Google, so I shan't post my home address, but I'll send it to you off-list by email right now. I think your email address is in these list messages, as in fact is mine, but if not please email me off-list and tell me what it is. On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 12:30 +, Michael G Fletcher wrote: > On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Rowan Berkeley > wrote: > > Indeed, I was laboring under a misconception there. It sounds quite > > straightforward, when you explain it like that ... > > > > > > Great! I think it explains where some of the frustration was creeping > into the list from :-) Something we need to work on, making sure that > advise is targeted with the correct background information. What many > saw as simple is not actually totally intuitive to somebody completely > new to Ubuntu/Linux. > > Will you be able to download 8.10 on your old sony machine and burn it > to disc, or would you like me to pop a copy in the post for you? Who > knows, with our wonderful royal mail it may even be in your hands > tomorrow and you can solve it all yourself :-) > > --Michael > > _ > Michael Fletcher > > Visit my website here - http://www.mgfletcher.com/blog > Interested in Linux? Then visit - http://www.ilovemylinux.com > -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Rowan Berkeley wrote: > You see I did ask LinuxCertified about the two discs they supplied, and > they confirmed that the one I have now used twice has all the > applications, but the other one has none of them. Be very interested to find out what this first disc is... the "other one" you refer to that you restored from must, surely, also contain the original kernel? Unless it's only a partial system restore... Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Michael G Fletcher wrote: > Great! I think it explains where some of the frustration was creeping > into the list from :-) Something we need to work on, making sure that > advise is targeted with the correct background information. What many > saw as simple is not actually totally intuitive to somebody completely > new to Ubuntu/Linux. I am quite prepared to admit that this was the situation in my case... I didn't spot the "Microsoft-thinking" at all (ie. that the vendors had supplied software as well as the OS) but the minute that you pointed it out Rowan's message about kernel etc. made perfect sense. I've been using Linux for too long, I think. But very good advice! Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
But I would have lost all my applications if I had done what Tony suggested earlier, here is what he said: "Did you try my advice of booting the kernel originally supplied by LC? I don't think the 'restricted' drivers are the problem, it's the fact that LC installed a non-standard kernel module for your NIC. However, this should not be a problem if you boot from the kernel they supplied. People on this list should know better than to start talking to you about different releases of Ubuntu as if that will solve your problem without making it clear that it's the version of the kernel in these releases that will solve your problem because they have an updated realtek NIC driver in them - Like the one LC compiled for you!" You see I did ask LinuxCertified about the two discs they supplied, and they confirmed that the one I have now used twice has all the applications, but the other one has none of them. On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 12:23 +, Sean Miller wrote: > I hadn't considered the LiveCD aspect... you are, of course, > absolutely right Michael. So there's no need for Rowan to even > install to prove that 8.10 brings up the network without any problems. > > Sean > -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Rowan Berkeley wrote: > Indeed, I was laboring under a misconception there. It sounds quite > straightforward, when you explain it like that ... > > Great! I think it explains where some of the frustration was creeping into the list from :-) Something we need to work on, making sure that advise is targeted with the correct background information. What many saw as simple is not actually totally intuitive to somebody completely new to Ubuntu/Linux. Will you be able to download 8.10 on your old sony machine and burn it to disc, or would you like me to pop a copy in the post for you? Who knows, with our wonderful royal mail it may even be in your hands tomorrow and you can solve it all yourself :-) --Michael _ Michael Fletcher Visit my website here - http://www.mgfletcher.com/blog Interested in Linux? Then visit - http://www.ilovemylinux.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
I hadn't considered the LiveCD aspect... you are, of course, absolutely right Michael. So there's no need for Rowan to even install to prove that 8.10 brings up the network without any problems. Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
Indeed, I was laboring under a misconception there. It sounds quite straightforward, when you explain it like that ... On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 12:13 +, Michael G Fletcher wrote: > On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Rowan Berkeley > wrote: > > I wouldn't mind installing 8.10, and then I could run all the updates as > > and when they appear, and enjoy all the cutting edge improvements. But > > it's true that I do not know whether the non-default interface driver > > was necessitated by the particular interface card used by Compal, the > > manufacturer of the machine, in which case my problem would re-appear > > even on 8.10, wouldn't it? > > > > I didn't try running the kernel re-install disc, because then I would > > have had to find all the essential applications somehow, including the > > one needed to find them online, i.e., the Internet browser, it seems to > > me, whereas I would hope that a complete new install of 8.10 would > > include a browser. To be stuck without a browser and without an > > installable version on disc ready in advance would be fatal, wouldn't > > it? > > > > Ah, I think I see where your reluctance to install a fresh and new > Ubuntu stems from - you are still completely engrossed in the windows > model of computing. > > 1. Installing Ubuntu from the CD (downloaded off the website) will > give you a fully function computer. by default practically everything > you need is installed. things like firefox, openoffice, synaptic and > many many more applications will be ready to go from the very > beginning! With windows all you get is a basic operating system. > > 2. If you download 8.10, burn it to CD, insert it into your CD drive > and reboot the machine (I think you mentioned pressing F12 and > selecting boot from CD) you will have an option there to "try Ubuntu > without changing anything.." or something to that effect. this is > called running a LiveCD - it basically gives you a picture of how > Ubuntu will work on your machine (only a little slower cause it needs > to constantly load info from the CD) but it will show you if the > network driver that installs will work with your laptop. So whilst > running the LiveCD, plug in the network cable and see if you have > internet connectivity. if it works, then double click the install > item. If it doesn't work, reboot, remove the CD and your computer is > exactly the same as you left! (I hope I'm not being condescending my > possibly explaining something that you already know!) > > Cheers > --Michael > -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Rowan Berkeley wrote: > I wouldn't mind installing 8.10, and then I could run all the updates as > and when they appear, and enjoy all the cutting edge improvements. But > it's true that I do not know whether the non-default interface driver > was necessitated by the particular interface card used by Compal, the > manufacturer of the machine, in which case my problem would re-appear > even on 8.10, wouldn't it? > > I didn't try running the kernel re-install disc, because then I would > have had to find all the essential applications somehow, including the > one needed to find them online, i.e., the Internet browser, it seems to > me, whereas I would hope that a complete new install of 8.10 would > include a browser. To be stuck without a browser and without an > installable version on disc ready in advance would be fatal, wouldn't > it? > Ah, I think I see where your reluctance to install a fresh and new Ubuntu stems from - you are still completely engrossed in the windows model of computing. 1. Installing Ubuntu from the CD (downloaded off the website) will give you a fully function computer. by default practically everything you need is installed. things like firefox, openoffice, synaptic and many many more applications will be ready to go from the very beginning! With windows all you get is a basic operating system. 2. If you download 8.10, burn it to CD, insert it into your CD drive and reboot the machine (I think you mentioned pressing F12 and selecting boot from CD) you will have an option there to "try Ubuntu without changing anything.." or something to that effect. this is called running a LiveCD - it basically gives you a picture of how Ubuntu will work on your machine (only a little slower cause it needs to constantly load info from the CD) but it will show you if the network driver that installs will work with your laptop. So whilst running the LiveCD, plug in the network cable and see if you have internet connectivity. if it works, then double click the install item. If it doesn't work, reboot, remove the CD and your computer is exactly the same as you left! (I hope I'm not being condescending my possibly explaining something that you already know!) Cheers --Michael -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
Hello, Michael, That's very nice of you to offer. You wouldn't want to come round here though, this place is unbelievably horrible, believe me. It has serious rising damp and galloping fungus mould all over the walls, and I am in dispute with my landlords about it even as we speak, with the assistance of the borough Environmental Health Officer, who agrees that I should be rehoused ASAP. I would find it much easier to come to wherever is convenient to you, sciatica or no sciatica. I didn't want to come to the Bug Jam because it would have involved a lot of standing around, but a one-to-one in reasonable comfort is no problem. My personal email is rowan dot berkeley at googlemail dot com, so drop me a message off-list to set up a place and time convenient to you. Thanks again, I really appreciate this offer, Rowan On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 11:35 +, Michael G Fletcher wrote: > On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Rowan Berkeley > wrote: > > If all LinuxCertified did was buy a batch of snazzy Korean executive > > laptops, with Windows Vista already installed on them, and then install > > out-of-date and un-updatable versions of ubuntu on them, then tweak them > > to make it work as long as they weren't updated, then I would be better > > off without their "support", and with the support of people in my own > > area who are familiar with the up-to-date versions of ubuntu, and can > > probably find any tweaks that may be necessary. I think all three of us > > are converging on that view. > > > > Hi Rowan > > I live in London and think it might be time that we organised to meet > up and try sort out some of your problems. > > I didn't offer hands on help the first time you asked because I know > nothing of DKMS. I'd be willing to come around to your place and see > what we can do... either going with a vanilla install of 8.10 (or 8.04 > LTS) or trying to see if we can easily fix the network driver problem > causing all the issues. > > Let me know > --Michael > > _ > Michael Fletcher > > Visit my website here - http://www.mgfletcher.com/blog > Interested in Linux? Then visit - http://www.ilovemylinux.com > -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
I wouldn't mind installing 8.10, and then I could run all the updates as and when they appear, and enjoy all the cutting edge improvements. But it's true that I do not know whether the non-default interface driver was necessitated by the particular interface card used by Compal, the manufacturer of the machine, in which case my problem would re-appear even on 8.10, wouldn't it? I didn't try running the kernel re-install disc, because then I would have had to find all the essential applications somehow, including the one needed to find them online, i.e., the Internet browser, it seems to me, whereas I would hope that a complete new install of 8.10 would include a browser. To be stuck without a browser and without an installable version on disc ready in advance would be fatal, wouldn't it? Mon, 2009-03-09 at 11:29 +, Tony Travis wrote: > Rowan Berkeley wrote: > > If all LinuxCertified did was buy a batch of snazzy Korean executive > > laptops, with Windows Vista already installed on them, and then install > > out-of-date and un-updatable versions of ubuntu on them, then tweak them > > to make it work as long as they weren't updated, then I would be better > > off without their "support", and with the support of people in my own > > area who are familiar with the up-to-date versions of ubuntu, and can > > probably find any tweaks that may be necessary. I think all three of us > > are converging on that view. > > Hello, Rowan. > > Hang on a bit! - Ubuntu 8.04 LTS is not out-of-date, it's a LONG TERM > SUPPORT release and there is no reason why you should not continue to > use it if that's what LC support, and you don't want to install 8.10 > yourself. > > Did you try my advice of booting the kernel originally supplied by LC? > > I don't think the 'restricted' drivers are the problem, it's the fact > that LC installed a non-standard kernel module for your NIC. However, > this should not be a problem if you boot from the kernel they supplied. > > People on this list should know better than to start talking to you > about different releases of Ubuntu as if that will solve your problem > without making it clear that it's the version of the kernel in these > releases that will solve your problem because they have an updated > realtek NIC driver in them - Like the one LC compiled for you! > > The negativity of this thread is contrary to the spirit of Ubuntu. let's > be a bit more positive in our advice to Rowan and help him to understand > why his Ubuntu 8.04 is broken. Then, he can make an informed decision > about where to go from there. Criticising LC for installing 8.04 LTS is > not constructive and flies in the face of Canonical's LTS strategy. > > Bye, > > Tony. > > p.s. I'm using 8.04 LTS on my laptop and will continue to do so ;-) > -- > Dr. A.J.Travis, University of Aberdeen, Rowett Institute of Nutrition > and Health, Greenburn Road, Bucksburn, Aberdeen AB21 9SB, Scotland, UK > tel +44(0)1224 712751, fax +44(0)1224 716687, http://www.rowett.ac.uk > mailto:a.tra...@abdn.ac.uk, http://bioinformatics.rri.sari.ac.uk/~ajt > -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Rowan Berkeley wrote: > If all LinuxCertified did was buy a batch of snazzy Korean executive > laptops, with Windows Vista already installed on them, and then install > out-of-date and un-updatable versions of ubuntu on them, then tweak them > to make it work as long as they weren't updated, then I would be better > off without their "support", and with the support of people in my own > area who are familiar with the up-to-date versions of ubuntu, and can > probably find any tweaks that may be necessary. I think all three of us > are converging on that view. > Hi Rowan I live in London and think it might be time that we organised to meet up and try sort out some of your problems. I didn't offer hands on help the first time you asked because I know nothing of DKMS. I'd be willing to come around to your place and see what we can do... either going with a vanilla install of 8.10 (or 8.04 LTS) or trying to see if we can easily fix the network driver problem causing all the issues. Let me know --Michael _ Michael Fletcher Visit my website here - http://www.mgfletcher.com/blog Interested in Linux? Then visit - http://www.ilovemylinux.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
Rowan Berkeley wrote: > If all LinuxCertified did was buy a batch of snazzy Korean executive > laptops, with Windows Vista already installed on them, and then install > out-of-date and un-updatable versions of ubuntu on them, then tweak them > to make it work as long as they weren't updated, then I would be better > off without their "support", and with the support of people in my own > area who are familiar with the up-to-date versions of ubuntu, and can > probably find any tweaks that may be necessary. I think all three of us > are converging on that view. Hello, Rowan. Hang on a bit! - Ubuntu 8.04 LTS is not out-of-date, it's a LONG TERM SUPPORT release and there is no reason why you should not continue to use it if that's what LC support, and you don't want to install 8.10 yourself. Did you try my advice of booting the kernel originally supplied by LC? I don't think the 'restricted' drivers are the problem, it's the fact that LC installed a non-standard kernel module for your NIC. However, this should not be a problem if you boot from the kernel they supplied. People on this list should know better than to start talking to you about different releases of Ubuntu as if that will solve your problem without making it clear that it's the version of the kernel in these releases that will solve your problem because they have an updated realtek NIC driver in them - Like the one LC compiled for you! The negativity of this thread is contrary to the spirit of Ubuntu. let's be a bit more positive in our advice to Rowan and help him to understand why his Ubuntu 8.04 is broken. Then, he can make an informed decision about where to go from there. Criticising LC for installing 8.04 LTS is not constructive and flies in the face of Canonical's LTS strategy. Bye, Tony. p.s. I'm using 8.04 LTS on my laptop and will continue to do so ;-) -- Dr. A.J.Travis, University of Aberdeen, Rowett Institute of Nutrition and Health, Greenburn Road, Bucksburn, Aberdeen AB21 9SB, Scotland, UK tel +44(0)1224 712751, fax +44(0)1224 716687, http://www.rowett.ac.uk mailto:a.tra...@abdn.ac.uk, http://bioinformatics.rri.sari.ac.uk/~ajt -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
If all LinuxCertified did was buy a batch of snazzy Korean executive laptops, with Windows Vista already installed on them, and then install out-of-date and un-updatable versions of ubuntu on them, then tweak them to make it work as long as they weren't updated, then I would be better off without their "support", and with the support of people in my own area who are familiar with the up-to-date versions of ubuntu, and can probably find any tweaks that may be necessary. I think all three of us are converging on that view. On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 09:30 +, Sean Miller wrote: > On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Alan Pope wrote: > > indeed it _should_). However, the fact still remains that he'll likely > > lose any support from LC. > > Is that a bad thing? If you take that to its logical conclusion then > he'll never be able to upgrade anything in his life, which would be a > shame... stuck with a Spring 2008 version for the rest of the > machine's useful life... > > And he's supported here and, should he be a member, on the other > Ubuntu lists so I can't really see what a great loss that'd be... > > Sean > -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Alan Pope wrote: > Good luck. Let us know if it does, and if it doesn't I'm sure we can help. > > _however_ the solution _even_ if you are on 8.10 _may_ well still > involve downloading some source code and manually compiling it. > > Don't think that running the latest version is some kind of panacea of > magic workingness. It might be, but experience tells me it often isnt. I think the point is that if it does not work he can always do his "restore" again from the vendor CD... there's no huge risk... it it works it works and if it doesn't it doesn't... but odds are if there is an issue that issue will have been present, or will be present, on his existing version. Bit of a "suck it and see", but I would be interested to know the outcome. Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
2009/3/9 Sean Miller : > If you take that to its logical conclusion then > he'll never be able to upgrade anything in his life, which would be a > shame... stuck with a Spring 2008 version for the rest of the > machine's useful life... > Not true. You can't possibly know what extra versions LC will support in the future. I'm merely speaking about his current device supportability. > And he's supported here and, should he be a member, on the other > Ubuntu lists so I can't really see what a great loss that'd be... > Sure, I was merely pointing it out so that he is aware that we might compromise it, it's his decision at the end of the day. Anyway, we're going round in circles. Enough now. Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Alan Pope wrote: > indeed it _should_). However, the fact still remains that he'll likely > lose any support from LC. Is that a bad thing? If you take that to its logical conclusion then he'll never be able to upgrade anything in his life, which would be a shame... stuck with a Spring 2008 version for the rest of the machine's useful life... And he's supported here and, should he be a member, on the other Ubuntu lists so I can't really see what a great loss that'd be... Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
If I was running a consistent and up to date version of the OS, the situation wouldn't arise in which I would be tempted to uncheck the drivers updates option. On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 09:19 +, Sean Miller wrote: > On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Alan Pope wrote: > > 2009/3/9 Sean Miller : > >> I will repeat my previous advice -- forget "restore disc", install > >> from 8.10 instead. > >> > > > > That wouldn't help in this case. If he was running 8.10 vanilla and > > unticked 'restricted' he'd end up in pretty much the same place. It's > > not the install disc, it's the user that's at fault in this case. > > Ah, hadn't spotted that... true... still am of the opinion, though, > that if he's still at the stage where he can re-install (or "restore" > or whatever) without losing things he'd do better with a more > up-to-date, and "vanilla", install. > > Half this problem seems, to me at least, to be to do with Rowan having > lost confidence in the whole setup of his machine. > > Installing 8.10 and finding his machine works like magic may restore > some of that. > > Sean > -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
2009/3/9 Rowan Berkeley : > I think Sean's approach is a lot more sensible for someone in my > position than yours, Al: especially because he included the magic words, > "It should detect all your hardware fine." > "_should_" Good luck. Let us know if it does, and if it doesn't I'm sure we can help. _however_ the solution _even_ if you are on 8.10 _may_ well still involve downloading some source code and manually compiling it. Don't think that running the latest version is some kind of panacea of magic workingness. It might be, but experience tells me it often isnt. Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
2009/3/9 Sean Miller : > Ah, hadn't spotted that... true... > still am of the opinion, though, > that if he's still at the stage where he can re-install (or "restore" > or whatever) without losing things he'd do better with a more > up-to-date, and "vanilla", install. > Sure, and I can understand that advice, completely. > Half this problem seems, to me at least, to be to do with Rowan having > lost confidence in the whole setup of his machine. > I think Rowan is focussing on the non-free non-standard elements on his machine. Fact is the non-free non-standard bits are what is making it work. Remove those and it breaks. Update everything else, and not that bit and it breaks. That's it in a nutshell. > Installing 8.10 and finding his machine works like magic may restore > some of that. > It may well do. It could be worth Rowans time to get the ISO for vanilla 8.10 and install it (given he's reinstalled from the recovery cd) to see if everything "just works" as you assert it should (and as indeed it _should_). However, the fact still remains that he'll likely lose any support from LC. Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
I think Sean's approach is a lot more sensible for someone in my position than yours, Al: especially because he included the magic words, "It should detect all your hardware fine." On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 07:36 +, Sean Miller wrote: > On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Rowan Berkeley > wrote: > > I gotta tell you, this is worse than I thought. I set the update manager > > to exclude "proprietary device drivers (restricted)" and allowed it to > > download and install everything else, and it again totally screwed up > > the machine, knocking out among other things the high-resolution > > display, so I had to re-install the whole of ubuntu from the restore > > disc all over again. > > I will repeat my previous advice -- forget "restore disc", install > from 8.10 instead. > > It's a more recent version of Ubuntu, should detect all your hardware > fine and when 9.04 comes out you will be able to simply let it update. > > Why is it that you're so reluctant to do this? > > Surely if it fails you can THEN use the "restore disc" method? > > But it shouldn't fail... not in my experience... > > Sean > -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Alan Pope wrote: > 2009/3/9 Sean Miller : >> I will repeat my previous advice -- forget "restore disc", install >> from 8.10 instead. >> > > That wouldn't help in this case. If he was running 8.10 vanilla and > unticked 'restricted' he'd end up in pretty much the same place. It's > not the install disc, it's the user that's at fault in this case. Ah, hadn't spotted that... true... still am of the opinion, though, that if he's still at the stage where he can re-install (or "restore" or whatever) without losing things he'd do better with a more up-to-date, and "vanilla", install. Half this problem seems, to me at least, to be to do with Rowan having lost confidence in the whole setup of his machine. Installing 8.10 and finding his machine works like magic may restore some of that. Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
2009/3/9 Sean Miller : > I will repeat my previous advice -- forget "restore disc", install > from 8.10 instead. > That wouldn't help in this case. If he was running 8.10 vanilla and unticked 'restricted' he'd end up in pretty much the same place. It's not the install disc, it's the user that's at fault in this case. Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
2009/3/9 Rowan Berkeley : > I gotta tell you, this is worse than I thought. I set the update manager > to exclude "proprietary device drivers (restricted)" and allowed it to That wasn't wise. I'd recommend learning what things are before randomly unclicking them :) > download and install everything else, and it again totally screwed up > the machine, knocking out among other things the high-resolution > display, so I had to re-install the whole of ubuntu from the restore > disc all over again. > You didn't _have_ to, it was completely fixable with just a couple of commands. Knowing what they are is of course the issue, and I'd suggest not getting into that situation in the first place. Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
On 09/03/09 07:22, Rowan Berkeley wrote: > I gotta tell you, this is worse than I thought. I set the update manager > to exclude "proprietary device drivers (restricted)" and allowed it to > download and install everything else, and it again totally screwed up > the machine, knocking out among other things the high-resolution > display, so I had to re-install the whole of ubuntu from the restore > disc all over again. I'm guessing you have an nvidia or ati graphics card? Both of these can use proprietary drivers to enable 3d acceleration (and advanced 2d acceleration on newer NV cards). Easiest way to fix it would be to install the drivers again (System > Administration > Hardware Drivers) rather than a complete restore / reinstall. It should also be possible to reconfigure X to use the appropriate FOSS driver if you want. (sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg) -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
I'm getting less reluctant all the time! On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 07:36 +, Sean Miller wrote: > On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Rowan Berkeley > wrote: > > I gotta tell you, this is worse than I thought. I set the update manager > > to exclude "proprietary device drivers (restricted)" and allowed it to > > download and install everything else, and it again totally screwed up > > the machine, knocking out among other things the high-resolution > > display, so I had to re-install the whole of ubuntu from the restore > > disc all over again. > > I will repeat my previous advice -- forget "restore disc", install > from 8.10 instead. > > It's a more recent version of Ubuntu, should detect all your hardware > fine and when 9.04 comes out you will be able to simply let it update. > > Why is it that you're so reluctant to do this? > > Surely if it fails you can THEN use the "restore disc" method? > > But it shouldn't fail... not in my experience... > > Sean > -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
Or, alternatively try the Jaunty (9.04) beta when it comes out on the 21st of March, if you aren't afraid of testing new things. Among other things it should probably have improved hardware support. Harry Quoting Sean Miller : > On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Rowan Berkeley > wrote: >> I gotta tell you, this is worse than I thought. I set the update manager >> to exclude "proprietary device drivers (restricted)" and allowed it to >> download and install everything else, and it again totally screwed up >> the machine, knocking out among other things the high-resolution >> display, so I had to re-install the whole of ubuntu from the restore >> disc all over again. > > I will repeat my previous advice -- forget "restore disc", install > from 8.10 instead. > > It's a more recent version of Ubuntu, should detect all your hardware > fine and when 9.04 comes out you will be able to simply let it update. > > Why is it that you're so reluctant to do this? > > Surely if it fails you can THEN use the "restore disc" method? > > But it shouldn't fail... not in my experience... > > Sean > > -- > ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ > -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] comprehensively messed up by updates
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Rowan Berkeley wrote: > I gotta tell you, this is worse than I thought. I set the update manager > to exclude "proprietary device drivers (restricted)" and allowed it to > download and install everything else, and it again totally screwed up > the machine, knocking out among other things the high-resolution > display, so I had to re-install the whole of ubuntu from the restore > disc all over again. I will repeat my previous advice -- forget "restore disc", install from 8.10 instead. It's a more recent version of Ubuntu, should detect all your hardware fine and when 9.04 comes out you will be able to simply let it update. Why is it that you're so reluctant to do this? Surely if it fails you can THEN use the "restore disc" method? But it shouldn't fail... not in my experience... Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
