[UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[S. Sharrieff Ali]

So.I have a theory about what happened to the trees on the 4500 block
of Walnut Street which fell during the storm last week.
 
If I am not mistaken, the tree-pits where not adequate for the trees to
receive
water after the new sidewalk cement job was completed. I have seen it
happen 
in the past, older trees just fall over time from being smothered by
cement.
 
Opinions?
 
S
 
 

Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[John Ellingsworth]

Wasn't the new sidewalk cement done in the last month?
That would hardly seem an adequate amount of time.

Regards,

John Ellingsworth

S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:

So.I have a theory about what happened to the trees on the 4500 block
of Walnut Street which fell during the storm last week.
 
If I am not mistaken, the tree-pits where not adequate for the trees to

receive
water after the new sidewalk cement job was completed. I have seen it
happen 
in the past, older trees just fall over time from being smothered by

cement.
 
Opinions?
 
S
 
 



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Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[Mike VanHelder]

I think it far more likely that the guys that did the sidewalk simply
chopped through all of the tree roots on that side of the tree, thus
destabilizing them and making them helpless to resist the high winds of the
storm.  This theory is supported by the fact that when the trees fell, the
roots that came up out of the ground on that side showed signs of cutting,
not tearing or snapping.  Also, the workers were seen by several local
residents cutting through the trees, and when one raised a stability
concern, the (presumed) foreman just shrugged it off.

- Mike V.

On 4/21/07, John Ellingsworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Wasn't the new sidewalk cement done in the last month?
That would hardly seem an adequate amount of time.

Regards,

John Ellingsworth

S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:
> So.I have a theory about what happened to the trees on the 4500 block
> of Walnut Street which fell during the storm last week.
>
> If I am not mistaken, the tree-pits where not adequate for the trees to
> receive
> water after the new sidewalk cement job was completed. I have seen it
> happen
> in the past, older trees just fall over time from being smothered by
> cement.
>
> Opinions?
>
> S
>
>
>

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RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[S. Sharrieff Ali]

I don't think the job was done only a month
ago..but lets find out.

When I drove by I noticed much of the root 
system had been covered with cement.

S


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Ellingsworth
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 11:48 PM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

Wasn't the new sidewalk cement done in the last month?
That would hardly seem an adequate amount of time.

Regards,

John Ellingsworth

S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:
> So.I have a theory about what happened to the trees on the 4500 block
> of Walnut Street which fell during the storm last week.
>  
> If I am not mistaken, the tree-pits where not adequate for the trees
to
> receive
> water after the new sidewalk cement job was completed. I have seen it
> happen 
> in the past, older trees just fall over time from being smothered by
> cement.
>  
> Opinions?
>  
> S
>  
>  
> 

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RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[S. Sharrieff Ali]

I agree Lew. I now believe it was a combination, what percentage...
I am not sure.

My reason for posting the comment was to make aware neighbors
who are planning to replace their sidewalks or may have neighbors 
who are replacing sidewalks, of the dangers of..now..chopping roots 
and the lack of adequate water pits for trees.

I believe it is a zoning issue, particularly if a tree falls on a 
person or property such as houses or cars. I would hope the city
government would require specific dimensions for tree-pits based on the
scale of the tree if you apply for a permit to replace sidewalks. (but I
don't think so)

A form which says: 1)"are there trees on the sidewalk?", 2)"if so, how
many trees and what are the sizes?".

Now we have something valuable for the local zoning committees to look
at.

S

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lewis Mellman
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 11:03 AM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street


 I heard the same explanation that Mike has for this from one of my 
local tree hugging friends.
Undersized tree pits/openings in pavement are a real problem for many
street 
trees because the roots need a border of permeable surface around the
trunk 
to absorb rain water.
 Drought periods like we often experience for much of July, August
and 
September many years also contribute to underwatering.  It's a good idea
to 
give mature trees supplemental watering during these times, because
often 
times a hard rain will not saturate the dry soil so that much of the
rain 
runs off without soaking in to the roots.  Newly planted trees need 
supplemental water for a few years because their roots systems tend to
be 
smaller than needed.  The green "Gator Bags" that we've been using in
Clark 
Park are a great and simple tool.  They also offer the trunks a little 
protection from dog pee and baby strollers.
 However, failure of anchoring roots that had been compromised by
root 
butchering from bad pavement work seems more likely to me than overall 
weakening of the tree from inadequate water for the loss of the tree
that 
Kyle photographed.
-Lew

Mike V. replied:

"I think it far more likely that the guys that did the sidewalk simply 
chopped through all of the tree roots on that side of the tree, thus 
destabilizing them and making them helpless to resist the high winds of
the 
storm.  This theory is supported by the fact that when the trees fell,
the 
roots that came up out of the ground on that side showed signs of
cutting, 
not tearing or snapping.  Also, the workers were seen by several local 
residents cutting through the trees, and when one raised a stability 
concern, the (presumed) foreman just shrugged it off.

- Mike V."

S-Ali wrote:

"So.I have a theory about what happened to the trees on the 4500 block
of 
Walnut Street which fell during the storm last week.
If I am not mistaken, the tree-pits where not adequate for the trees to 
receive water after the new sidewalk cement job was completed. I have
seen 
it happen in the past, older trees just fall over time from being
smothered 
by cement.
Opinions?
-S"



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Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[John Ellingsworth]

What a shame; the block really looks bare ...  and cementy.

Regards,

John Ellingsworth

S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:

Woops!   Another crime of omission.
 
S

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike VanHelder
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 6:11 AM
To: John Ellingsworth
Cc: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street
 
I think it far more likely that the guys that did the sidewalk simply

chopped through all of the tree roots on that side of the tree, thus
destabilizing them and making them helpless to resist the high winds of
the storm.  This theory is supported by the fact that when the trees
fell, the roots that came up out of the ground on that side showed signs
of cutting, not tearing or snapping.  Also, the workers were seen by
several local residents cutting through the trees, and when one raised a
stability concern, the (presumed) foreman just shrugged it off. 


- Mike V.
On 4/21/07, John Ellingsworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Wasn't the new sidewalk cement done in the last month?
That would hardly seem an adequate amount of time.

Regards,

John Ellingsworth

S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:
So.I have a theory about what happened to the trees on the 4500 block 
of Walnut Street which fell during the storm last week.


If I am not mistaken, the tree-pits where not adequate for the trees

to

receive
water after the new sidewalk cement job was completed. I have seen it 
happen

in the past, older trees just fall over time from being smothered by
cement.

Opinions?

S





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Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

Mike VanHelder wrote:

I think it far more likely that the guys that did the sidewalk simply
chopped through all of the tree roots on that side of the tree, thus
destabilizing them and making them helpless to resist the high winds of the
storm.  This theory is supported by the fact that when the trees fell, the
roots that came up out of the ground on that side showed signs of cutting,
not tearing or snapping.  Also, the workers were seen by several local
residents cutting through the trees, and when one raised a stability
concern, the (presumed) foreman just shrugged it off.



yes, I heard this same explanation. a contributing factor 
may also be that this type of pear tree (bradford pear?) can 
get 'top-heavy' -- all their branches tend to grow out from 
a single point on the trunk (like an upside down broom) 
unless judiciously pruned... you can see what I mean in 
kyle's photo:


http://www.asc.upenn.edu/usr/cassidy/pix/2007/2007%2D04%2D16%2Dtrees/2.html

I've seen these same trees become split down the middle 
after a summer storm...




here's more info about these trees, why they're popular in 
urban settings but also why they're risky:


http://www.scnps.org/articles/pears.html

http://www.emmitsburg.net/gardens/articles/frederick/2002/bradford_pears.htm

http://www.aces.edu/dept/extcomm/newspaper/may10b01.html


..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeam®]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.
still, I am fond of these pear trees, because
they blossom right around my birthday...










































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Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[Lewis Mellman]

I heard the same explanation that Mike has for this from one of my 
local tree hugging friends.
Undersized tree pits/openings in pavement are a real problem for many street 
trees because the roots need a border of permeable surface around the trunk 
to absorb rain water.
Drought periods like we often experience for much of July, August and 
September many years also contribute to underwatering.  It's a good idea to 
give mature trees supplemental watering during these times, because often 
times a hard rain will not saturate the dry soil so that much of the rain 
runs off without soaking in to the roots.  Newly planted trees need 
supplemental water for a few years because their roots systems tend to be 
smaller than needed.  The green "Gator Bags" that we've been using in Clark 
Park are a great and simple tool.  They also offer the trunks a little 
protection from dog pee and baby strollers.
However, failure of anchoring roots that had been compromised by root 
butchering from bad pavement work seems more likely to me than overall 
weakening of the tree from inadequate water for the loss of the tree that 
Kyle photographed.

-Lew

Mike V. replied:

"I think it far more likely that the guys that did the sidewalk simply 
chopped through all of the tree roots on that side of the tree, thus 
destabilizing them and making them helpless to resist the high winds of the 
storm.  This theory is supported by the fact that when the trees fell, the 
roots that came up out of the ground on that side showed signs of cutting, 
not tearing or snapping.  Also, the workers were seen by several local 
residents cutting through the trees, and when one raised a stability 
concern, the (presumed) foreman just shrugged it off.


- Mike V."

S-Ali wrote:

"So…I have a theory about what happened to the trees on the 4500 block of 
Walnut Street which fell during the storm last week.
If I am not mistaken, the tree-pits where not adequate for the trees to 
receive water after the new sidewalk cement job was completed. I have seen 
it happen in the past, older trees just fall over time from being smothered 
by cement.

Opinions?
-S"



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Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:


Now we have something valuable for the local zoning committees to look
at.




or maybe something valuable for uc green to look into 
(pruning and thinning).




..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeam®]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.
































































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RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[Kyle Cassidy]

Several Stonely Court residents reported on the West Philly livejournal group 
that when the sidewalk was replaced contractors sawed through the roots that 
were buckling the pavement and removed them so that the new sidewalk would lay 
flat. One of them said that she went outside and spoke to the workmen while 
they were doing this and commented that this didn't seem like a good idea. At 
the moment I don't have any supporting evidence apart from those posts. I 
didn't see personally that the roots were cut, but I never looked to see if 
they were. I don't recall the re-surfacing in detail and wasn't paying 
attention when it happened. I seem to recall that there was a third tree that 
fell or was removed last year or the year before. 

kc

Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[Philip Forrest]

I'm not one for litigation so much, but there needs to be some recourse here.  
If there is writing or photos or even witnesses who saw the contractors 
sawing roots, they need to be brought to task and something needs to be made 
right.  Those trees stood for decades without falling.  2 months of root 
suffocation wouldn't kill the tree, especially since the soil was quite moist 
for those months.  That side of the block is ugly now and it's because of 
cutting corners.  Cars were destroyed, people were put in danger, thousands 
of dollars in resources were spent, thousands of residents were 
inconvenienced.  Us Philly taxpayers are footing the bill for a contractor's 
negligence.  

phil

On Sunday 22 April 2007 12:32, UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN wrote:
> S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:
> > Now we have something valuable for the local zoning committees to look
> > at.
>
> or maybe something valuable for uc green to look into
> (pruning and thinning).
>
>
>
> ..
> UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
> [aka laserbeam®]
> [aka ray]
> SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.
>
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> 
> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
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RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[Kyle Cassidy]

Though they are currently two absolutely awesome bike ramps there now that you 
should be able to get four feet of air off of, and land right in the middle of 
Melville street.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of John Ellingsworth
Sent: Sun 4/22/2007 12:11 PM
To: S. Sharrieff Ali
Cc: 'Mike VanHelder'; 'John Ellingsworth'; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street
 
What a shame; the block really looks bare ...  and cementy.

Regards,

RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[S. Sharrieff Ali]

Woops!   Another crime of omission.
 
S
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike VanHelder
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 6:11 AM
To: John Ellingsworth
Cc: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street
 
I think it far more likely that the guys that did the sidewalk simply
chopped through all of the tree roots on that side of the tree, thus
destabilizing them and making them helpless to resist the high winds of
the storm.  This theory is supported by the fact that when the trees
fell, the roots that came up out of the ground on that side showed signs
of cutting, not tearing or snapping.  Also, the workers were seen by
several local residents cutting through the trees, and when one raised a
stability concern, the (presumed) foreman just shrugged it off. 

- Mike V.
On 4/21/07, John Ellingsworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Wasn't the new sidewalk cement done in the last month?
That would hardly seem an adequate amount of time.

Regards,

John Ellingsworth

S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:
> So.I have a theory about what happened to the trees on the 4500 block 
> of Walnut Street which fell during the storm last week.
>
> If I am not mistaken, the tree-pits where not adequate for the trees
to
> receive
> water after the new sidewalk cement job was completed. I have seen it 
> happen
> in the past, older trees just fall over time from being smothered by
> cement.
>
> Opinions?
>
> S
>
>
>

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RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[S. Sharrieff Ali]

Phillip:

I am quite sure the car insurance companies would be interested!

I spoke with a friend who is an arborist, she said it was most 
likely a combination of lack of water and chopping of roots. If the
trees had larger pits and were able to get more water, the trees 
would fight to survive (probably same result, just later), however, 
a trees root system is more important not to be disturbed and chopping 
off the roots of a tree to make a sidewalk lay flat is not advisable.

I'm going to check with L&I regarding the zoning and permit issues
and get back to the listserv unless someone else knows and post sooner.

S


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philip Forrest
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 12:51 PM
To: UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
Cc: Univcity
Subject: Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

I'm not one for litigation so much, but there needs to be some recourse
here.  
If there is writing or photos or even witnesses who saw the contractors 
sawing roots, they need to be brought to task and something needs to be
made 
right.  Those trees stood for decades without falling.  2 months of root

suffocation wouldn't kill the tree, especially since the soil was quite
moist 
for those months.  That side of the block is ugly now and it's because
of 
cutting corners.  Cars were destroyed, people were put in danger,
thousands 
of dollars in resources were spent, thousands of residents were 
inconvenienced.  Us Philly taxpayers are footing the bill for a
contractor's 
negligence.  

phil

On Sunday 22 April 2007 12:32, UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN wrote:
> S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:
> > Now we have something valuable for the local zoning committees to
look
> > at.
>
> or maybe something valuable for uc green to look into
> (pruning and thinning).
>
>
>
> ..
> UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
> [aka laserbeamR]
> [aka ray]
> SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.
>
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>
> 
> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
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RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[S. Sharrieff Ali]

Great opportunity for UC-Green.

S

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Ellingsworth
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 12:12 PM
To: S. Sharrieff Ali
Cc: 'Mike VanHelder'; 'John Ellingsworth'; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

What a shame; the block really looks bare ...  and cementy.

Regards,

John Ellingsworth

S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:
> Woops!   Another crime of omission.
>  
> S
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike VanHelder
> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 6:11 AM
> To: John Ellingsworth
> Cc: UnivCity@list.purple.com
> Subject: Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street
>  
> I think it far more likely that the guys that did the sidewalk simply
> chopped through all of the tree roots on that side of the tree, thus
> destabilizing them and making them helpless to resist the high winds
of
> the storm.  This theory is supported by the fact that when the trees
> fell, the roots that came up out of the ground on that side showed
signs
> of cutting, not tearing or snapping.  Also, the workers were seen by
> several local residents cutting through the trees, and when one raised
a
> stability concern, the (presumed) foreman just shrugged it off. 
> 
> - Mike V.
> On 4/21/07, John Ellingsworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wasn't the new sidewalk cement done in the last month?
> That would hardly seem an adequate amount of time.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> John Ellingsworth
> 
> S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:
>> So.I have a theory about what happened to the trees on the 4500 block

>> of Walnut Street which fell during the storm last week.
>>
>> If I am not mistaken, the tree-pits where not adequate for the trees
> to
>> receive
>> water after the new sidewalk cement job was completed. I have seen it

>> happen
>> in the past, older trees just fall over time from being smothered by
>> cement.
>>
>> Opinions?
>>
>> S
>>
>>
>>
> 
> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the 
> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
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>  
> 

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RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[S. Sharrieff Ali]

Someone private-mailed me and accused me of  "dime-dropping" on the
"whoever" 
with L&I and asked me to post a clarification.
 
I don't plan to "dime-drop" on anyone, not my place. I plan to check
with
L&I to see what the regulations are, what forms are used. 
 
I keep seeing sidewalks with cement all around the base of trees not
leaving 
enough room for water. I had an incident a few years ago with a
neighbor's tree
he cemented around the base, the tree later fell and destroyed my fence!
 
Also, I happen to know of a woman who lost her husband and unborn child
due 
to a tree falling on the car her family was riding in, she was seriously
injured but 
lived. Not a happy picture. It was just lucky the trees didn't kill
anyone. 
 
Act of God? . probably not. I think man had a hand in this one.
 
S
 

Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[Philip Forrest]

"Also, I happen to know of a woman who lost her husband and unborn child due 
to a tree falling on the car her family was riding in, she was seriously 
injured but lived. Not a happy picture. It was just lucky the trees didn't 
kill anyone."

So WAS someone killed or was someone NOT killed?  You might want to clarify.  
Husband and an unborn child sounds like someone was killed to me.

Phil



On Sunday 22 April 2007 19:27, S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:
> Someone private-mailed me and accused me of  "dime-dropping" on the
> "whoever"
> with L&I and asked me to post a clarification.
>
> I don't plan to "dime-drop" on anyone, not my place. I plan to check
> with
> L&I to see what the regulations are, what forms are used.
>
> I keep seeing sidewalks with cement all around the base of trees not
> leaving
> enough room for water. I had an incident a few years ago with a
> neighbor's tree
> he cemented around the base, the tree later fell and destroyed my fence!
>
> Also, I happen to know of a woman who lost her husband and unborn child
> due
> to a tree falling on the car her family was riding in, she was seriously
> injured but
> lived. Not a happy picture. It was just lucky the trees didn't kill
> anyone.
>
> Act of God? . probably not. I think man had a hand in this one.
>
> S

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Fwd: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[pmuyehara]

  Perhaps if any of the tree experts on the list know, it would be helpful to 
post guidance on the accepted standards for tree openings in sidewalks. 
 
 The trees no doubt would prefer no concrete at all. It seems obvious that 
laying the concrete up against the trunk is really bad. But what is one to do, 
when its time to replace the sidewalk, especially if the roots are pushing up 
the concrete causing tripping hazards and hassles for those in wheelchairs, 
baby carriages, etc?

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
 Sent: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 7:27 PM
 Subject: RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street
 
   Someone private-mailed me and accused me of  “dime-dropping” on the 
“whoever”  with L&I and asked me to post a clarification.   I don’t plan to 
“dime-drop” on anyone, not my place. I plan to check with L&I to see what the 
regulations are, what forms are used.I keep seeing sidewalks with cement 
all around the base of trees not leaving  enough room for water. I had an 
incident a few years ago with a neighbor’s tree he cemented around the base, 
the tree later fell and destroyed my fence!   Also, I happen to know of a woman 
who lost her husband and unborn child due  to a tree falling on the car her 
family was riding in, she was seriously injured but  lived. Not a happy 
picture. It was just lucky the trees didn’t kill anyone.Act of God? … 
probably not. I think man had a hand in this one.   S  

AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from 
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Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[Lewis Mellman]

The way I read it, Sharrieff Ali knows someone whose husband and unborn 
child died in a car that a tree fell on.
The tree(s?) that fell last week could have hurt or killed someone, and 
it was just luck that we're not discussing a memorial service instead of 
wondering what the reg.s are for pavement work.
It sure would be useful (and surprising) if the City had a building 
code for pavement that requires minimal impact to existing trees (root and 
branch dismemberment) and sets a standard for minimum surface area around 
trees that must be permeable.

Thanks for checking with L&I about it SA.
-Lew


From: Philip Forrest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Philip Forrest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "S. Sharrieff Ali" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,    Univcity 


Subject: Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:58:51 -0400

"Also, I happen to know of a woman who lost her husband and unborn child 
due

to a tree falling on the car her family was riding in, she was seriously
injured but lived. Not a happy picture. It was just lucky the trees didn't
kill anyone."

So WAS someone killed or was someone NOT killed?  You might want to 
clarify.

Husband and an unborn child sounds like someone was killed to me.

Phil



On Sunday 22 April 2007 19:27, S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:
> Someone private-mailed me and accused me of  "dime-dropping" on the
> "whoever"
> with L&I and asked me to post a clarification.
>
> I don't plan to "dime-drop" on anyone, not my place. I plan to check
> with
> L&I to see what the regulations are, what forms are used.
>
> I keep seeing sidewalks with cement all around the base of trees not
> leaving
> enough room for water. I had an incident a few years ago with a
> neighbor's tree
> he cemented around the base, the tree later fell and destroyed my fence!
>
> Also, I happen to know of a woman who lost her husband and unborn child
> due
> to a tree falling on the car her family was riding in, she was seriously
> injured but
> lived. Not a happy picture. It was just lucky the trees didn't kill
> anyone.
>
> Act of God? . probably not. I think man had a hand in this one.
>
> S

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RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[S. Sharrieff Ali]

Thanks Lew..and yes..you read correctly, 2 people died.
I have a friend who is a medical professional and is
currently treating the wife who mis-carried her child 
during the accident and her husband died from his 
tree-crash injuries. 

If people were in the cars on Walnut Street when the 
trees fell they would have sustained injuries and may 
have been killed.

S



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lewis Mellman
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 8:25 PM
To: Univcity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street


 The way I read it, Sharrieff Ali knows someone whose husband and
unborn 
child died in a car that a tree fell on.
 The tree(s?) that fell last week could have hurt or killed someone,
and 
it was just luck that we're not discussing a memorial service instead of

wondering what the reg.s are for pavement work.
 It sure would be useful (and surprising) if the City had a building

code for pavement that requires minimal impact to existing trees (root
and 
branch dismemberment) and sets a standard for minimum surface area
around 
trees that must be permeable.
 Thanks for checking with L&I about it SA.
-Lew

>From: Philip Forrest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Philip Forrest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "S. Sharrieff Ali" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,    Univcity 
>
>Subject: Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street
>Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:58:51 -0400
>
>"Also, I happen to know of a woman who lost her husband and unborn
child 
>due
>to a tree falling on the car her family was riding in, she was
seriously
>injured but lived. Not a happy picture. It was just lucky the trees
didn't
>kill anyone."
>
>So WAS someone killed or was someone NOT killed?  You might want to 
>clarify.
>Husband and an unborn child sounds like someone was killed to me.
>
>Phil
>
>
>
>On Sunday 22 April 2007 19:27, S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:
> > Someone private-mailed me and accused me of  "dime-dropping" on the
> > "whoever"
> > with L&I and asked me to post a clarification.
> >
> > I don't plan to "dime-drop" on anyone, not my place. I plan to check
> > with
> > L&I to see what the regulations are, what forms are used.
> >
> > I keep seeing sidewalks with cement all around the base of trees not
> > leaving
> > enough room for water. I had an incident a few years ago with a
> > neighbor's tree
> > he cemented around the base, the tree later fell and destroyed my
fence!
> >
> > Also, I happen to know of a woman who lost her husband and unborn
child
> > due
> > to a tree falling on the car her family was riding in, she was
seriously
> > injured but
> > lived. Not a happy picture. It was just lucky the trees didn't kill
> > anyone.
> >
> > Act of God? . probably not. I think man had a hand in this one.
> >
> > S
>
>You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
>list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
><http://www.purple.com/list.html>.



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Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[Anthony West]

One day I was was walking along Baltimore Avenue in Clark Park when -- wham! 
I turned around and saw a huge tree branch from an ageing London plane, as 
thick as a human body, had crashed down on the sidewalk. A woman was 
standing near me, staring at the branch in a daze. About six seconds earlier 
she had been walking right across that patch of sidewalk where the branch 
fell.


Trees are many, many things, most of which are beautiful. But one thing 
trees can be, is a safety hazard. This is particularly relevant in an urban 
forest, where trees live adjacent to large numbers of people. It's one 
factor that makes urban tree care a specialty.


-- Tony West


Thanks Lew..and yes..you read correctly, 2 people died.
I have a friend who is a medical professional and is
currently treating the wife who mis-carried her child
during the accident and her husband died from his
tree-crash injuries.

If people were in the cars on Walnut Street when the
trees fell they would have sustained injuries and may
have been killed.

S




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RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[KAREN ALLEN]

From: "S. Sharrieff Ali" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "S. Sharrieff Ali" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Subject: RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:27:49 -0400

Someone private-mailed me and accused me of  "dime-dropping" on the
"whoever"
with L&I and asked me to post a clarification.



So what is this???   "No Snitching" has come to the UC List???
Karen Allen



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Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[KAREN ALLEN]

I thought Sharrieff was citing another, different example he was personally 
aware of to make the point that falling trees can be deadly, not that THIS 
particular incident was deadly.




From: Philip Forrest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Philip Forrest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "S. Sharrieff Ali" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,    Univcity 


Subject: Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:58:51 -0400


So WAS someone killed or was someone NOT killed?  You might want to 
clarify.

Husband and an unborn child sounds like someone was killed to me.

Phil





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RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[Kyle Cassidy]

  

It's not the first time, there have been complaints on the list
previously about L&I being called about trash violations and other times
people have complained that neighbors snitched on their off-leash dogs.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KAREN ALLEN

>From: "S. Sharrieff Ali" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>Someone private-mailed me and accused me of  "dime-dropping" on the 
>"whoever"
>with L&I and asked me to post a clarification.


So what is this???   "No Snitching" has come to the UC List???
Karen Allen


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RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[KAREN ALLEN]

From: "Kyle Cassidy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:41:53 -0400




It's not the first time, there have been complaints on the list
previously about L&I being called about trash violations and other times
people have complained that neighbors snitched on their off-leash dogs.


Oh, I get it...the people who insist that the rules be followed are the bad 
guys.  Thanks for setting me straight.

Karen



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Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[Krfapt]

>From: "Kyle Cassidy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject:  RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:41:53  -0400

>
>It's not the first time, there have been complaints on  the list
>previously about L&I being called about trash violations and  other times
>people have complained that neighbors snitched on their  off-leash dogs.



In a  message dated 4/23/2007 3:23:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  writes:


Oh,  I get it...the people who insist that the rules be followed are the bad  
guys.  Thanks for setting me straight.


Personally, I don't like the dime-dropper mentality.
 
It's one thing if a neighbor is creating a condition that intrudes on your  
rights in some overt way -- like turning their yard into a landfill, keeping 
you  up at all hours of the night setting poems by the immortal Sumner A 
Ingmark 
 to heavy metal music, or parking across the curb cut to your driveway so you 
 can't get in or out. Even there, addressing the issue with the offending 
party  first would be appropriate.
 
It's quite another thing if someone is doing something that's  technically 
against the law or some city code but isn't hurting you or creating  a hazard 
for the general public in any other way -- but some  self-righteous prig calls 
the cops, L&I, etc. And, it turns out, that  chopping the above-ground roots of 
mature trees that have tap root or heart  root (as opposed to flat root) 
systems for sidewalk repair is a  standard practice that -- I've been told by 
more 
than one contractor -- doesn't  affect the tree or its stability because 
these roots don't offer much in the way  or support or nurture anyway. You 
could 
see from the photos by Kyle and others  of the two trees on Walnut Street that 
the problem was an inadequate.
 
Incidentally, of the trees you're likely to find around here, very few have  
tap roots; Sycamores (London Planes) have heart roots -- both of which should 
go  deep enough. Some maples have flat roots, and these could possibly be a  
problem.
 
Of course, it's actually a very complex issue. Before making the leaps of  
faith so common these days (not just on this list, of course), anyone 
interested 
 might want to start by reading the article at 
_http://joa.isa-arbor.com/request.asp?JournalID=1&ArticleID=2256&Type=2_ 
(http://joa.isa-arbor.com/request.asp?JournalID=1&ArticleID=2256&Type=2) 
 
Al  Krigman
Call it snitching if you will, call me a hypocrite if you choose, but  
register your opposition to the NID via the Internet to Councilwoman  Blackwell:
With some background: _www.iconworldwide.com/speakup_ 
(http://www.iconworldwide.com/speakup) 
Go  directly to the form: 
_http://www.iconworldwide.com/speakup/nonid-01.html_ 
(http://www.iconworldwide.com/speakup/nonid-01.html) 



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[SKnight]

you're definitely correct about the tree pits being too small.  
sk
  - Original Message - 
  From: S. Sharrieff Ali<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: UnivCity@list.purple.com<mailto:UnivCity@list.purple.com> 
  Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 8:42 PM
  Subject: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street


  So.I have a theory about what happened to the trees on the 4500 block

  of Walnut Street which fell during the storm last week.

   

  If I am not mistaken, the tree-pits where not adequate for the trees to 
receive

  water after the new sidewalk cement job was completed. I have seen it happen 

  in the past, older trees just fall over time from being smothered by cement.

   

  Opinions?

   

  S

   

   

Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[SKnight]

ho hum
  - Original Message - 
  From: UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: Univcity<mailto:Univcity@list.purple.com> 
  Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 12:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street


  S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:
  > 
  > Now we have something valuable for the local zoning committees to look
  > at.



  or maybe something valuable for uc green to look into 
  (pruning and thinning).



  ..
  UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
  [aka laserbeam®]
  [aka ray]
  SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.































































  
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Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[SKnight]

Philip, you are quite right.  Is this something John Fenton could help with?
sk
  - Original Message - 
  From: Philip Forrest<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  Cc: Univcity<mailto:Univcity@list.purple.com> 
  Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 12:51 PM
  Subject: Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street


  I'm not one for litigation so much, but there needs to be some recourse here. 
 
  If there is writing or photos or even witnesses who saw the contractors 
  sawing roots, they need to be brought to task and something needs to be made 
  right.  Those trees stood for decades without falling.  2 months of root 
  suffocation wouldn't kill the tree, especially since the soil was quite moist 
  for those months.  That side of the block is ugly now and it's because of 
  cutting corners.  Cars were destroyed, people were put in danger, thousands 
  of dollars in resources were spent, thousands of residents were 
  inconvenienced.  Us Philly taxpayers are footing the bill for a contractor's 
  negligence.  

  phil

  On Sunday 22 April 2007 12:32, UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN wrote:
  > S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:
  > > Now we have something valuable for the local zoning committees to look
  > > at.
  >
  > or maybe something valuable for uc green to look into
  > (pruning and thinning).
  >
  >
  >
  > ..
  > UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
  > [aka laserbeam®]
  > [aka ray]
  > SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
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  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
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  >
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  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
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  >
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  > 
  > You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
  > list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
  > <http://www.purple.com/list.html<http://www.purple.com/list.html>>.

  
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Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[SKnight]

It is unsettling to think that there are double-digit IQ chuckleheads who 
actually said "dime-dropping" to you in your offer to fact-find.  Sharrieff, 
thank you for making the effort to do this.

Sandra Knight
  - Original Message - 
  From: S. Sharrieff Ali<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: UnivCity@list.purple.com<mailto:UnivCity@list.purple.com> 
  Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 7:27 PM
  Subject: RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street


  Someone private-mailed me and accused me of  "dime-dropping" on the "whoever" 

  with L&I and asked me to post a clarification.

   

  I don't plan to "dime-drop" on anyone, not my place. I plan to check with

  L&I to see what the regulations are, what forms are used. 

   

  I keep seeing sidewalks with cement all around the base of trees not leaving 

  enough room for water. I had an incident a few years ago with a neighbor's 
tree

  he cemented around the base, the tree later fell and destroyed my fence!

   

  Also, I happen to know of a woman who lost her husband and unborn child due 

  to a tree falling on the car her family was riding in, she was seriously 
injured but 

  lived. Not a happy picture. It was just lucky the trees didn't kill anyone. 

   

  Act of God? . probably not. I think man had a hand in this one.

   

  S

   

Re: Fwd: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street

[Philip Forrest]

That's easy, you build up your frame a little higher and make the sidewalk 
thicker.  They don't have to be perfectly level either.  None of these 
sidewalks in Philly are.  It's just a little bit more material usage, but in 
the end, like in most situations, a little more investment, patience and work 
put into the project makes it more worthwhile and longer lasting.  

On Sunday 22 April 2007 20:04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>   Perhaps if any of the tree experts on the list know, it would be helpful
> to post guidance on the accepted standards for tree openings in sidewalks.
>
>  The trees no doubt would prefer no concrete at all. It seems obvious that
> laying the concrete up against the trunk is really bad. But what is one to
> do, when its time to replace the sidewalk, especially if the roots are
> pushing up the concrete causing tripping hazards and hassles for those in
> wheelchairs, baby carriages, etc?
>
>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
>  Sent: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 7:27 PM
>  Subject: RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street
>
>Someone private-mailed me and accused me of  “dime-dropping” on the
> “whoever”  with L&I and asked me to post a clarification.   I don’t plan to
> “dime-drop” on anyone, not my place. I plan to check with L&I to see what
> the regulations are, what forms are used.I keep seeing sidewalks with
> cement all around the base of trees not leaving  enough room for water. I
> had an incident a few years ago with a neighbor’s tree he cemented around
> the base, the tree later fell and destroyed my fence!   Also, I happen to
> know of a woman who lost her husband and unborn child due  to a tree
> falling on the car her family was riding in, she was seriously injured but 
> lived. Not a happy picture. It was just lucky the trees didn’t kill anyone.
>Act of God? … probably not. I think man had a hand in this one.   S
> 
> AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.


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RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street (brushes with death)

[Kyle Cassidy]

One winter about five years ago I was walking down Walnut at about 12th when a 
sheet of ice that probably weighed fifty pounds fell from one of those 13 story 
center city skyscrapers and smashed onto the sidewalk about 15 feet in front of 
me like someone dropping a phone booth from an airplane. A woman walking 
towards me was a lot closer, she screamed, we both jumped back and the rest of 
the trip I walked in the street. I can't imagine nobody's ever been killed by 
something like that, and I'd never thought before about re-freezing ice melt 
forming on the sides of buildings and then dropping off.

I've noticed lately that when there is ice Wharton blocks off the sidewalk 
around Huntsman hall which I'm guessing exhibits this problem more than other 
buildings.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Anthony West
Sent: Sun 4/22/2007 9:53 PM
To: Univcity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street
 
One day I was was walking along Baltimore Avenue in Clark Park when -- wham! 
I turned around and saw a huge tree branch from an ageing London plane, as 
thick as a human body, had crashed down on the sidewalk. A woman was 
standing near me, staring at the branch in a daze. About six seconds earlier 
she had been walking right across that patch of sidewalk where the branch 
fell.

Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street (brushes with death)

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:

I had an incident a few years ago with a neighbor’s tree he
cemented around the base, the tree later fell and destroyed
my fence!



Anthony West wrote:
One day I was was walking along Baltimore Avenue in Clark Park when -- 
wham! I turned around and saw a huge tree branch from an ageing London 
plane, as thick as a human body, had crashed down on the sidewalk.



Kyle Cassidy wrote:
One winter about five years ago I was walking down Walnut at about 12th 
when a sheet of ice that probably weighed fifty pounds fell from one of 
those 13 story center city skyscrapers and smashed onto the sidewalk







Margie Politzer wrote:

Hello,

Can anyone recommend a carpenter to build a roof deck?





:-)

..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeam®]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.


















































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Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street - Ordinance Guidelines - Don't Snitch?

[Craigsolve]

In a message dated 4/22/2007 7:29:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Someone  private-mailed me and accused me of  “dime-dropping” on the “whoever
”   
with L&I and asked me  to post a clarification.
Are you stating a participant on this listserv tried to  intimidate you with 
the threat of Don't Snitch? How sad. Out the  weenie, SAli.
 
L&I codes are meant to  support a reasonable and decent quality of life for 
the general  populace.

... I plan to check  with L&I to see what  the regulations are, what forms 
are used.
There are reasonable practices meant  to maximize tree viability in urban 
settings.
*   No pavement shall be laid within an area  of three (3) feet by four 
(4) feet around the base of the trunk of any such  tree nor shall any stone, 
gravel, cement, lumber, or other material be  deposited upon such area.
Private  Contractors. Any person engaged in the business of planting, 
removing,  spraying, pruning, bark tracing, and root pruning of street trees in 
the 
City of  Philadelphia shall comply with the following rules and regulations 
relating to  the proper performance of said work:


*   He/she shall obtain a  permit before performing any work on the 
street trees in the  City.
*   He/she shall sign an agreement whereby  he/she will agree to hold the 
City of Philadelphia and the Commission harmless  from any and all claims of 
whatever nature arising from damage of property or  injury to any persons, 
however caused, through the exercise of said permit  either by himself/herself, 
his/her agent, servant, or employee.
*   He/she shall obtain comprehensive  liability insurance for injury to 
any person or persons and for damage to any  property, in such amount as the 
Commission may require.
*   A certificate of insurance evidencing  such coverage shall be placed 
on file with the Commission.
*   He/she shall perform the work  described above in good, workmanlike 
fashion, and in addition, shall  comply with the published regulations for the 
care of street trees  issued by the Commission.
General guidelines are available at 
_http://www.fairmountpark.org/StreetTree.asp_ 
(http://www.fairmountpark.org/StreetTree.asp)  


I think man had  a hand in this one. 

By keeping his hand in his pocket instead of spending money to the do the  
job right the first time.
 
For over 30 years Stoneleigh has been a real estate gateway to hell  and 
anguish in West Philly. The city stops responding when people stop  
complaining, 
because a cash strapped city hopes the private sector will  remediate this 
valuable piece of real estate. In 1980 Court of Common Pleas  almost seized the 
property, while the DA was prosecuting the owner for a  plethora of significant 
code violations.
 
Ever wonder why the exterior rain conductors still aren't connected to the  
DWV lines?
 
It is a shame the building suffers from inept management.
 
Craig Melidosian
Past President
Fairmount Park Commission Advisory Council



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street - Ordinance Guidelines - Don't Snitch?

[Elizabeth F Campion]

Dear Craig,

Thanks for the info, but it might be important to know that the city does
not cede the right of walkway to the existence of or desire for trees.
Most residential blocks in the city require a paved walkway that is 5'
wide.
Many commercial blocks require more width.  The largest requirement that
I have seen is 17'.

This explains why some property owners make tree lawns, in the hope that
a longer ribbon of earth might permit sufficient area for the delivery of
water and air to tree roots.

Best!
Liz


On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 23:44:06 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In a message dated 4/22/2007 7:29:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Someone private-mailed me and accused me of  �dime-dropping� on the
�whoever� 
with L&I and asked me to post a clarification.
Are you stating a participant on this listserv tried to intimidate you
with the threat of Don't Snitch? How sad. Out the weenie, SAli.
 
L&I codes are meant to support a reasonable and decent quality of life
for the general populace.
... I plan to check with L&I to see what the regulations are, what forms
are used.
There are reasonable practices meant to maximize tree viability in urban
settings.
No pavement shall be laid within an area of three (3) feet by four (4)
feet around the base of the trunk of any such tree nor shall any stone,
gravel, cement, lumber, or other material be deposited upon such area.
Private Contractors. Any person engaged in the business of planting,
removing, spraying, pruning, bark tracing, and root pruning of street
trees in the City of Philadelphia shall comply with the following rules
and regulations relating to the proper performance of said work:


He/she shall obtain a permit before performing any work on the street
trees in the City.

He/she shall sign an agreement whereby he/she will agree to hold the City
of Philadelphia and the Commission harmless from any and all claims of
whatever nature arising from damage of property or injury to any persons,
however caused, through the exercise of said permit either by
himself/herself, his/her agent, servant, or employee.

He/she shall obtain comprehensive liability insurance for injury to any
person or persons and for damage to any property, in such amount as the
Commission may require.

A certificate of insurance evidencing such coverage shall be placed on
file with the Commission.

He/she shall perform the work described above in good, workmanlike
fashion, and in addition, shall comply with the published regulations for
the care of street trees issued by the Commission.
General guidelines are available at
http://www.fairmountpark.org/StreetTree.asp 
  I think man had a hand in this one.
By keeping his hand in his pocket instead of spending money to the do the
job right the first time.
 
For over 30 years Stoneleigh has been a real estate gateway to hell and
anguish in West Philly. The city stops responding when people stop
complaining, because a cash strapped city hopes the private sector will
remediate this valuable piece of real estate. In 1980 Court of Common
Pleas almost seized the property, while the DA was prosecuting the owner
for a plethora of significant code violations.
 
Ever wonder why the exterior rain conductors still aren't connected to
the DWV lines?
 
It is a shame the building suffers from inept management.
 
Craig Melidosian
Past President
Fairmount Park Commission Advisory Council






See what's free at AOL.com. 


Elizabeth Campion   Cell Phone: 215-880-2930
215-546-0550 Main, -546-9871 fax,  Desk + VM: 215-790-5653
PRUDENTIAL, FOX & ROACH REALTORS, LLC
Please read Consumer Notice & enjoy "HOME PILOT" tools at
 www.PruFoxRoach.com

Fwd: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street - Ordinance Guidelines - Don't Snitch?

[pmuyehara]

 Craig,
 What is the source of the snipped language?
 Does this mean the pit itself is 3 X 4', which is what I'd think was intended, 
or that that much clearance is required from the base of the trunk, which is 
what it seems to say? 
 
 Paul
 
 
 There are reasonable practices meant to maximize tree viability in urban 
settings.  No pavement shall be laid within an area of three (3) feet by four 
(4) feet around the base of the trunk of any such tree nor shall any stone, 
gravel, cement, lumber, or other material be deposited upon such area.   
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
 Sent: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:44 PM
 Subject: Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street - Ordinance Guidelines - Don't 
Snitch?
 
In a message dated 4/22/2007 7:29:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] writes:   Someone private-mailed me and accused me of  
“dime-dropping” on the “whoever”with L&I and asked me to post a 
clarification.  Are you stating a participant on this listserv tried to 
intimidate you with the threat of Don't Snitch? How sad. Out the weenie, SAli.  
 L&I codes are meant to support a reasonable and decent quality of life for the 
general populace.... I plan to check with L&I to see what the regulations 
are, what forms are used.  There are reasonable practices meant to maximize 
tree viability in urban settings.   No pavement shall be laid within an area of 
three (3) feet by four (4) feet around the base of the trunk of any such tree 
nor shall any stone, gravel, cement, lumber, or other material be deposited 
upon such area. Private Contractors. Any person engaged in the business of 
planting, removing, spraying, pruning, bark tracing, and root pruning of street 
trees in the City of Philadelphia shall comply with the following rules and 
regulations relating to the proper performance of said work:
 
He/she shall obtain a permit before performing any work on the street trees 
in the City.
  He/she shall sign an agreement whereby he/she will agree to hold the City of 
Philadelphia and the Commission harmless from any and all claims of whatever 
nature arising from damage of property or injury to any persons, however 
caused, through the exercise of said permit either by himself/herself, his/her 
agent, servant, or employee.
  He/she shall obtain comprehensive liability insurance for injury to any 
person or persons and for damage to any property, in such amount as the 
Commission may require.
  A certificate of insurance evidencing such coverage shall be placed on file 
with the Commission.
  He/she shall perform the work described above in good, workmanlike fashion, 
and in addition, shall comply with the published regulations for the care of 
street trees issued by the Commission. General guidelines are available at 
http://www.fairmountpark.org/StreetTree.asp   I think man had a hand in 
this one.   By keeping his hand in his pocket instead of spending money to the 
do the job right the first time.   For over 30 years Stoneleigh has been a real 
estate gateway to hell and anguish in West Philly. The city stops responding 
when people stop complaining, because a cash strapped city hopes the private 
sector will remediate this valuable piece of real estate. In 1980 Court of 
Common Pleas almost seized the property, while the DA was prosecuting the owner 
for a plethora of significant code violations.   Ever wonder why the exterior 
rain conductors still aren't connected to the DWV lines?   It is a shame the 
building suffers from inept management.   Craig Melidosian Past President 
Fairmount Park Commission Advisory Council 
 
 
 See what's free at AOL.com.

AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from 
AOL at AOL.com.

RE: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street - Ordinance Guidelines - Don't Snitch?

[S. Sharrieff Ali]

Craig:
I won't say who it was, below is the comment. I didn't think it
was totally unreasonable if others were confused about my 
intentions in the post.
 
S
 
 
"You previously wrote: "I'm going to check with L&I regarding the zoning
and permit issues
and get back to the listserv unless someone else knows and post sooner."
 
"Which certainly sounds as though you're going to check whether anybody
violated any 
zoning codes or pulled any necessary permits".
 
"Perhaps you should clarify what you meant rather than have people think
you've joined 
the holier-than-thou set".
 
"Dime dropping doesn't become you".
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 11:44 PM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Trees on 4500 Walnut Street - Ordinance Guidelines -
Don't Snitch?
 
In a message dated 4/22/2007 7:29:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Someone private-mailed me and accused me of  "dime-dropping" on the
"whoever" 
with L&I and asked me to post a clarification.
Are you stating a participant on this listserv tried to intimidate you
with the threat of Don't Snitch? How sad. Out the weenie, SAli.
 
L&I codes are meant to support a reasonable and decent quality of life
for the general populace.
... I plan to check with L&I to see what the regulations are, what forms
are used.
There are reasonable practices meant to maximize tree viability in urban
settings.
* No pavement shall be laid within an area of three (3) feet by
four (4) feet around the base of the trunk of any such tree nor shall
any stone, gravel, cement, lumber, or other material be deposited upon
such area.
Private Contractors. Any person engaged in the business of planting,
removing, spraying, pruning, bark tracing, and root pruning of street
trees in the City of Philadelphia shall comply with the following rules
and regulations relating to the proper performance of said work:
* He/she shall obtain a permit before performing any work on the
street trees in the City.
* He/she shall sign an agreement whereby he/she will agree to
hold the City of Philadelphia and the Commission harmless from any and
all claims of whatever nature arising from damage of property or injury
to any persons, however caused, through the exercise of said permit
either by himself/herself, his/her agent, servant, or employee.
* He/she shall obtain comprehensive liability insurance for
injury to any person or persons and for damage to any property, in such
amount as the Commission may require.
* A certificate of insurance evidencing such coverage shall be
placed on file with the Commission.
* He/she shall perform the work described above in good,
workmanlike fashion, and in addition, shall comply with the published
regulations for the care of street trees issued by the Commission.
General guidelines are available at
http://www.fairmountpark.org/StreetTree.asp 
  I think man had a hand in this one.
By keeping his hand in his pocket instead of spending money to the do
the job right the first time.
 
For over 30 years Stoneleigh has been a real estate gateway to hell and
anguish in West Philly. The city stops responding when people stop
complaining, because a cash strapped city hopes the private sector will
remediate this valuable piece of real estate. In 1980 Court of Common
Pleas almost seized the property, while the DA was prosecuting the owner
for a plethora of significant code violations.
 
Ever wonder why the exterior rain conductors still aren't connected to
the DWV lines?
 
It is a shame the building suffers from inept management.
 
Craig Melidosian
Past President
Fairmount Park Commission Advisory Council



  _  

See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503> .